General Grievous vs Exar Kun (Sabers only)

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Ursumeles
Legends only

DarthAnt66
Classic EU, or TCW-included Legends?

Ursumeles
Classic EU - so OCW, RotS etc.

DarthAnt66
Grievous, then. He was a legitimate threat to even Mace.

Deronn_solo
Exar's greater command over the Force is gonna lend him a victory sooner or later.

Azronger
Grievous.

Rockydonovang
people really exaggerate hwo nerfed he was in tcw and tend to ignore the context and circumstances surrounding the showings.
TCW grevious stalemating/beating tcw kenobi as a duelist(not counting force use) despite a form disadvantage is one of his best showings in the entire mythos. The same could be said of him walking through a weakened mother talzin's shield after getting force blasted and tanking a massive fall vs maul.

DarthAnt66
You do realize Filoni has personally stated that Grievous is a Jedi Council duelist at best?

And then we have classical EU stating that Grievous rivals Windu and is impossibly fast for any Jedi.

The difference isn't an exaggeration. It's intentional. Lucas and Dave don't view Grievous like the EU authors.

And what is this "form disadvantage" nonsense? Grievous is equipped to handle any form.

cs_zoltan
Yeah, Phagoni flat out said he doesn't think Grievous can beat Ventress because he doesn't have the force, and once you stop shitting yourself from his many lightsabers you can beat him gg. While in the EU on the other hand Grievous would impregnate Ventress if he'd still have a dick.

TenebrousWay
Old EU Grievous even pushed Dooku hard, despite the fact the Count didn't teach everything he knew to him. OCW Grievous can only be defeated in sabers by Dooku, arguably Mace and Yoda.

TCW Grievous is a huge jobber that probably isn't even much more skilled than the Grand Inquisitor, after all.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do realize Filoni has personally stated that Grievous is a Jedi Council duelist at best?

And then we have classical EU stating that Grievous rivals Windu and is impossibly fast for any Jedi.

The difference isn't an exaggeration. It's intentional. Lucas and Dave don't view Grievous like the EU authors.

And what is this "form disadvantage" nonsense? Grievous is equipped to handle any form.

And then there's Fact File which claims that TCW Kenobi and Grievous are near equals.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do realize Filoni has personally stated that Grievous is a Jedi Council duelist at best?

And then we have classical EU stating that Grievous rivals Windu and is impossibly fast for any Jedi.

The difference isn't an exaggeration. It's intentional. Lucas and Dave don't view Grievous like the EU authors.

And what is this "form disadvantage" nonsense? Grievous is equipped to handle any form.
a. source? either how that doesn't really make much sense since tcw is full of grevious beating council level duesits despite unfavorable circumstances. Driving back fisto and his padawan despite fisto's shi cho and an unfavorable enviroment, wrecking galia despite only using two blades, even beating kenobi ect.

b. compared to how nerfed say anakin its not big at all.

c. kenobi's soresu is a badmatchup for grevious per windu

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Old EU Grievous even pushed Dooku hard, despite the fact the Count didn't teach everything he knew to him. OCW Grievous can only be defeated in sabers by Dooku, arguably Mace and Yoda.

TCW Grievous is a huge jobber that probably isn't even much more skilled than the Grand Inquisitor, after all.
yea, because the grand inqusitor can match tcw kenobi, drive back fisto+vebb, steadily drive back koth with two blades, quickly beat galia with two blades, take on maul ect. Even say tcw ahsoka, who grevious had fleeing in less than a munite, would wreck the inqusitor

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Exar's greater command over the Force is gonna lend him a victory sooner or later.

Sabers only.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
yea, because the grand inqusitor can match tcw kenobi, drive back fisto+vebb, steadily drive back koth with two blades, quickly beat galia with two blades, take on maul ect. Even say tcw ahsoka, who grevious had fleeing in less than a munite, would wreck the inqusitor

The Grand Inquisitor can be compared to Ventress, despite being decisively inferior. TCW Grievous not being "much more skilled" than that is enough for him to replicate those feats.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Sabers only.

I know?

With the Force, the match would be over the second Kun's chooses it to be.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
a. source? either how that doesn't really make much sense since tcw is full of grevious beating council level duesits despite unfavorable circumstances. Driving back fisto and his padawan despite fisto's shi cho and an unfavorable enviroment, wrecking galia despite only using two blades, even beating kenobi ect.

"I still don't believe that, at this point -- one-to-one -- that Grievous could really take out someone like Ventress in a lightsaber fight. I mean, it's just me, but he doesn't have the Force. He can't wield it. I don't see how he can hope to be as proficient as a Jedi or a Sith could be fighting with a lightsaber, which is why he's always willing to dirty play at the end of the day."

"Yeah, it's in the movie. Mace Windu says, "General Grievous will run and hide, as he always does." He's an interesting character for all that thought. And obviously, you know, he's adept at using lightsabers, but I always thought his thing was fear. If you are afraid of the many swirling blades, then you'll parish staring at them. But if you can just focus through it, you can defeat that opponent "

You do realize that there's really no such thing as "form advantages" in TCW / Canon, right? That's not even much of a thing in Legends, BTW.



You mean the Anakin who performed ridiculously impressive vs Dooku in the TCW movie, and then again in S4?



Sigh, no, Windu never said that. Soresu isn't a bad match-up for Grievous... Kenobi himself, as both the person and the fighter, is.

The sheer simplicity that Kenobi brings to the battlefield, in both technique and mindset, is the ultimate counter to Grievous' overpowering and larger-than-life nature.

TheNuisanceBird
"The electrodrivers that powered Grievous's limbs could move them faster than the human eye can see; when he swung his arm, it and his fist and the lightsaber within it would literally vanish: wiped from existence-

"No human being could move remotely as fast as Grievous,"

- ROTS Novelization

"Grievous moved so swiftly that he seemed to teleport from the window to half a meter in front of Gunray."

- ROTS Novelization

"The impact sent Obi-Wan tumbling sideways and the electroburst discharge set his robe on fire. Grievous stayed right with him, attacking before Obi-Wan could even realize faster than thought."

ROTS Novelization

"Maybe was still a bit flash-blind-the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire."

- ROTS Novelization


Going by statements/headcanon alone, Grievous should be faster than a Vaapad amped Mace and therefor be around Sidious in terms of speed.

DarthAnt66
"Vaaped amped Mace" was as fast as Palpatine, so nah.

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Vaaped amped Mace" was as fast as Palpatine, so nah.

True. By extension one would also have to argue Grievous being faster than Anakin for to make sense.

DarthAnt66
Why?

Rockydonovang
a. Noted(and those statements are increbily stupid), still makes absolutely no sense how tcw itself has grevious stalemating/beating(as a duelist) ventress's superior in kenobi, ow how sod has grevious fighting evenly with maul. Its also ridiculou as tcw has him outdueling the best duelists in the order multiple times
B. Anakin was still was on the losing end/lost all his fights vs dooku and in season 6 was on the losing end vs kenobi's help. I was talking about him struggling vs clovis, struggling to lift rocks, getting beat by ventress when ocw anakin was able to match/beat when enraged ocw ventress(before logically growing much more than ventress), and struggling with cad bane.
C. Er, no. It was talking about kenobi's simplicity, and his mastery of soresy, the simplest lightsaber form. But point about that being old legends is noted

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why?

Anakin's fast enough to out run the vacuum space and has millisecond perception time. That fact that he can't see Sidious moving is pretty big.

This however, may be due to him not eating or sleeping for several days though as noted in the ROTS novelization.

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
a. Noted(and those statements are increbily stupid), still makes absolutely no sense how tcw itself has grevious stalemating/beating(as a duelist) ventress's superior in kenobi, ow how sod has grevious fighting evenly with maul. Its also ridiculou as tcw has him outdueling the best duelists in the order multiple times
B. Anakin was still was on the losing end/lost all his fights vs dooku and in season 6 was on the losing end vs kenobi's help. I was talking about him struggling vs clovis, struggling to lift rocks, getting beat by ventress when ocw anakin was able to match/beat when enraged ocw ventress(before logically growing much more than ventress), and struggling with cad bane.
C. Er, no. It was talking about kenobi's simplicity, and his mastery of soresy, the simplest lightsaber form. But point about that being old legends is noted

A: Lol

B: Lol What?

I wouldn't call Anakin breaking Dooku's defenses with a kick, knocking him back up against a flight of stairs, and ****ing choking him with his bare hands "losing".

Exactly how did Anakin struggle with Clovis?

"You could have killed him Anakin" - Padme

https://youtu.be/geysOmDTYcM

C: Shii-Cho?

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
A: Lol

B: Lol What?

I wouldn't call Anakin breaking Dooku's defenses with a kick, knocking him back up against a flight of stairs, and ****ing choking him with his bare hands "losing".

Exactly how did Anakin struggle with Clovis?

"You could have killed him Anakin" - Padme

https://youtu.be/geysOmDTYcM

C: Shii-Cho?
A. not sure what you're laughing at here.
B. Its called losing when the dude you choke removes your hand from his and proceeds to cook you with lightning.
C. Clovis landing hits on him? Clovis's hits doing something to him? You realize clovis is a fraking senator

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
A. not sure what you're laughing at here.
B. Its called losing when the dude you choke removes your hand from his and proceeds to cook you with lightning.
C. Clovis landing hits on him? Clovis's hits doing something to him? You realize clovis is a fraking senator

B. To be fair Anakin got right back up.

C. The only hits Clovis landed were when Anakin was distracted by Padme and when he used to table to surprise Anakin.

AncientPower
Kun wins because he uses ancient Sith lightsaber techniques Grievpus has no experience with.

chingchangwalla
Lmfao Kun.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun wins because he uses ancient Sith lightsaber techniques Grievpus has no experience with.

If only Grievous had computers in his brain that can instantly analyze any fighting style and adapt it on the spot, then it wouldn't be a problem.


...Oh wait, he has.

Ursumeles
GG wins because he uses a modern, random lightsaber technique Exar has no experience with.

Beniboybling
GG wins because Kun sucks balls.

AncientPower
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
If only Grievous had computers in his brain that can instantly analyze any fighting style and adapt it on the spot, then it wouldn't be a problem.


...Oh wait, he has.

If only Dooku, Mace's rival, hadn't been informing the Kaleesh Cyborg on the Jedi forms.

... Oh wait, he did.

Emperordmb
GG wins because he's from 4000 years in the future. If GG were just 1000 years in the future being a noted master of one form in his age would Trump being a master of literally every lightsaber technique that existed even a thousand years ago, and Kun's 4000 years ago and GG has all 7 forms, so GG stomps.

Nah but in all seriousness Kun.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by AncientPower
If only Dooku, Mace's rival, hadn't been informing the Kaleesh Cyborg on the Jedi forms.

... Oh wait, he did.

Are you suggesting that GG can only analyze what he already knows? F-ucking hilarious laughing out loud

Lord Stark
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The sheer simplicity that Kenobi brings to the battlefield, in both technique and mindset, is the ultimate counter to Grievous' overpowering and larger-than-life nature.

Indeed. Mace's Vaapad and Yoda's Ataru compensate for some weakness where as Kenobi's form is just that his form.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Emperordmb
GG wins because he's from 4000 years in the future. If GG were just 1000 years in the future being a noted master of one form in his age would Trump being a master of literally every lightsaber technique that existed even a thousand years ago, and Kun's 4000 years ago and GG has all 7 forms, so GG stomps.

Nah but in all seriousness Kun. You were on to something there, then you dropped the ball. sad

Selenial
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Trump

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/56c640526e97c625048b822a-480/donald-trump.jpg

> when your cock's so far down some people's throat they subconsciously capitalist the word 'trump' out of respect

Emperordmb
I voted for Hillary (as the lesser of two evils because I thought they were both absolute dogshit). I'm just so used to discussing politics I capitalized Trump. For a while whenever I typed "Legends" I would accidentally start to type "LeGenDs" even though I don't respect LeGenD as a debater.

Don't mistake my hatred of SJW bullshit for Trump support.

Beniboybling
kek

Rockydonovang
Grevious wrecks.
And even tcw grevious also wins by virtue of being able to wreck tcw season 7 kenobi who himself outdueled tcw maul who himself was>tpm maul who in addition to being one of the most skilled Sith Lords in history outclassed boondara who himself was one of the most skilled Jedi of all time

Selenial
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I voted for Hillary (as the lesser of two evils because I thought they were both absolute dogshit). I'm just so used to discussing politics I capitalized Trump. For a while whenever I typed "Legends" I would accidentally start to type "LeGenDs" even though I don't respect LeGenD as a debater.

Don't mistake my hatred of SJW bullshit for Trump support.

Oh I know, don't worry. I just couldn't resist.

I still type 'Wookieepeedia' instead of Wikipedia when looking things up, I don't really use either but I used to use Wookieepedia to explore different military tech back in the day.

AncientPower
No seriously Kun stomps him.

Dread Dark
Ill have to say which Grievous were talking about.

Legends: Exar kun (with alot of difficulty)

TCW Greivous: Kun uses 1 saber on the jobber (doesnt even need his staff)

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Dread Dark
Ill have to say which Grievous were talking about.

Legends: Exar kun (with alot of difficulty)

TCW Greivous: Kun uses 1 saber on the jobber (doesnt even need his staff)
Grevious still wrecks
Saberwise
Grevious>=tcw Kenobi>tcw maul>Tpm maul>qui gon>>one of the most skilled Jedi of all time>dude who struggled with a stick

AncientPower
You're a shit troll.

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