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Which of these vigilantes takes the win?

Oliver has much more experience, he takes this.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Oliver has much more experience, he takes this. not really. Also, his fights are generally slower paced than daredevil's and by season 2 an injured Matt was capable of dealing with a few dozen armed bikers (that's without even getting into the ninjas).

I think its a damn good fight. I'm really not sure which way to lean.

Good fight going with DD

Originally posted by Classic NES
Oliver has much more experience, he takes this.

Haven't seen the show much except for the crossovers really but although its true that Oliver does quite possibly have the experience Matt has been training since he was a kid and he may have the same amount of experience from an episode where he couldn't take the noises of people crying for help and took action

Originally posted by deathslash
not really. Also, his fights are generally slower paced than daredevil's and by season 2 an injured Matt was capable of dealing with a few dozen armed bikers (that's without even getting into the ninjas).

This is true

Originally posted by tkitna
I think its a damn good fight. I'm really not sure which way to lean.

Thanks

Originally posted by iceman24567
Good fight going with DD

Thanks

Originally posted by deathslash
not really. Also, his fights are generally slower paced than daredevil's and by season 2 an injured Matt was capable of dealing with a few dozen armed bikers (that's without even getting into the ninjas).



He has a decades worth if experience, how is it not really?

Originally posted by Scarlet315
Haven't seen the show much except for the crossovers really but although its true that Oliver does quite possibly have the experience Matt has been training since he was a kid and he may have the same amount of experience from an episode where he couldn't take the noises of people crying for help and took action

I'M not talking about training, I mean actually combat experience. Against far more formidable enemies than Matt. He's in expert in firearms, explosives, various weapons and has much better gear. The only thing Matt has is pain tolerance. Oliver kicks his teeth in.

murdock stomps

Originally posted by Classic NES
I'M not talking about training, I mean actually combat experience. Against far more formidable enemies than Matt. He's in expert in firearms, explosives, various weapons and has much better gear. The only thing Matt has is pain tolerance. Oliver kicks his teeth in. you're going to have to explain how being an expert in fire arms helps him at all or how he has better gear. Also, how is he even going to tag Matt when the guy already has experience dodging and deflecting arrows? Lastly, the reasoning that he's fought stronger than Matt so he should win is also faulty because Matt has fought against tougher opponents than him and still won. This isn't about one time showings, it's about the overall report card and Matt has the more impressive one.

Originally posted by deathslash
you're going to have to explain how being an expert in fire arms helps him at all or how he has better gear. Also, how is he even going to tag Matt when the guy already has experience dodging and deflecting arrows? Lastly, the reasoning that he's fought stronger than Matt so he should win is also faulty because Matt has fought against tougher opponents than him and still won. This isn't about one time showings, it's about the overall report card and Matt has the more impressive one.

It's called transferable skills. He uses explosives in his arsenal for specific arrow heads and it also helps him fight against them. He has various trick arrows which he can use to own matt. How's his report card better? What has he done to place him above Oliver?

Who has Matt fought on the league of Damian Darhk and Rha's? Or Slade? FYI, Oliver has fought all the aforementioned tougher enemies t and won too. Matt has no advantage here.

Oliver kills him.

Arrow.

Arrow wins, but DD has prettier looking fights.

If it's h2h, Daredevil easily.

I remember in the first episode that Matt casually evaded bullets shot at him while he was saving those women in the containers. Also cant forget about his heightened senses which should give him an idea of what's in Ollie's bag of tricks

Originally posted by deathslash
you're going to have to explain how being an expert in fire arms helps him at all or how he has better gear. Also, how is he even going to tag Matt when the guy already has experience dodging and deflecting arrows? Lastly, the reasoning that he's fought stronger than Matt so he should win is also faulty because Matt has fought against tougher opponents than him and still won. This isn't about one time showings, it's about the overall report card and Matt has the more impressive one.

Did you just as how a billionaire with access to high end tech has better gear than DareDevil? The dude has..a nice stick to beat you with, and a cool suit. That's about the extent of it.

Oliver carries all kinds of wacky shit on him. Matt..again, beats you with a stick.

Originally posted by Surtur
Did you just as how a billionaire with access to high end tech has better gear than DareDevil? The dude has..a nice stick to beat you with, and a cool suit. That's about the extent of it.

Oliver carries all kinds of wacky shit on him. Matt..again, beats you with a stick. last time I watched arrow, ollie only had a few trick arrows and absolutely no form of armor. Meanwhile, Matt actually has armor and that "stick" of his makes up a grappling hook, escrima stick, and combines with another to make nunchukas iirc. Not only that, Matt can and has dodged, deflected, and iirc caught arrows. The thing that makes this more lopsided is that he can hear, smell, taste, and feel what type of arrow it is, so Ollie loses that suprise.
Originally posted by Classic NES
It's called transferable skills. He uses explosives in his arsenal for specific arrow heads and it also helps him fight against them. He has various trick arrows which he can use to own matt. How's his report card better? What has he done to place him above Oliver?

Who has Matt fought on the league of Damian Darhk and Rha's? Or Slade? FYI, Oliver has fought all the aforementioned tougher enemies t and won too. Matt has no advantage here. you mean the very same ra's that handed him his own ass and the very same deathstroke that handed him his own ass? It's funny that Ollie winning his fights through the use of skill, a fairly large amount of teammates to back him up, and a massive amount of prep is more impressive than daredevil beating his opponents (temigun, kingpin, the punisher) through the use of skill alone.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Arrow wins, but DD has prettier looking fights.

yeah Arrow is on its 6th season with 23 episodes a season. DD had only 2 seasons with 13 episodes a season. So Arrow has many more feats, if you take into the cross overs and such, Arrow has fought a good amount of metas and others with powers. DD only has only fought Nobu who would fall into that category. Personally I wish Netflix did all super hero shows as the CW includes too much high school type drama/love triangles and plot driven fighting scenes.

unarmed dd would take him but it would be close. ollie is pretty sharp though (no pun intended...) and would likely be able to take matt out. has he used a sonic arrow yet? i'm thinking ollie would deduce that matt was blind and find a way to take advantage by f'ing with matt's senses somehow. no one is sweeping this, but i'd give ollie a slight majority in general.

Originally posted by deathslash

you mean the very same ra's that handed him his own ass and the very same deathstroke that handed him his own ass? It's funny that Ollie winning his fights through the use of skill, a fairly large amount of teammates to back him up, and a massive amount of prep is more impressive than daredevil beating his opponents (temigun, kingpin, the punisher) through the use of skill alone.


What are you talking about? He beat most of the guys I listed in one on one duels. Minus Slade where he needed a distraction from felicity. Hell, he purposely ostracized his team just to take down rhas he never needed help.

You just made a point about Matt beating tougher opponents. That was why I bought up people who initially beat Oliver before he came back and owned them . Nobody Matt has fought is own the people I listed league. Matt gets creamed.

Tbh, despite the comparative brutality of Matt's fight, Ollie sh*ts all over him in overall feats. Someone mentioned earlier the quality of the competition and I'd have to agree. Ranged, H2H, etc. shouldn't matter.

He's also gone up against - and beaten - metahumans. I know everyone in Marvel to some extent is beyond human, but it's much more explicit to this point in the CW-verse. He's got a BIG head start in terms of episode count, though. So really, we're not comparing apples to apples. Arrow's first 20 episodes or so are very different than the totality of the show.

It's a close fight though, of course. And as with many close threads, the comments I disagree with most are those that think it's a stomp one way or another.

Originally posted by leonidas
unarmed dd would take him but it would be close. ollie is pretty sharp though (no pun intended...) and would likely be able to take matt out. has he used a sonic arrow yet? i'm thinking ollie would deduce that matt was blind and find a way to take advantage by f'ing with matt's senses somehow. no one is sweeping this, but i'd give ollie a slight majority in general.

I'm not sure I would agree. How would Ollie deduce that Matt is blind? Why would he even think that? That's the whole point of DD - his other senses are so sharp that no one would ever suspect he is blind.

I do agree that IF Ollie had a sonic arrow and IF he knew Matt relied on his ears he could disorient him - but those are two pretty big ifs.

I'm putting my money on Matt. He's been trained since he was a boy by one of the greatest martial artists in the Marvel universe, while Ollie spent his time being a spoilt little rich boy. Matt is known for his ability to dodge bullets and arrows, and Ollie does not have an inexhaustible arsenal.

Although it should be a good fight, I would give Matt the majority. At night, I'd say it's pretty close to a sure win for him.

Matt's damage soak is already pretty epic. And he did beat a pretty clear superhuman in Nobu.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Matt's damage soak is already pretty epic. And he did beat a pretty clear superhuman in Nobu.

Nobu was not a superhuman lol. He just came bac from the dead, there's nothing Superhuman about him.

Watch their second fight again. Matt was getting thrown across the room by Nobu's punches and kicks. It wouldn't be necessary to show those effects if he wasn't atleast peak human(Cap's weight class)

Originally posted by Classic NES
Nobu was not a superhuman lol. He just came bac from the dead, there's nothing Superhuman about him.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Watch their second fight again. Matt was getting thrown across the room by Nobu's punches and kicks. It wouldn't be necessary to show those effects if he wasn't atleast peak human(Cap's weight class)

It's been a while. I will.

Originally posted by Inedian
If it's h2h, Daredevil easily.

Just like against Castle?

Originally posted by Digi
Tbh, despite the comparative brutality of Matt's fight, Ollie sh*ts all over him in overall feats. Someone mentioned earlier the quality of the competition and I'd have to agree. Ranged, H2H, etc. shouldn't matter.

He's also gone up against - and beaten - metahumans. I know everyone in Marvel to some extent is beyond human, but it's much more explicit to this point in the CW-verse. He's got a BIG head start in terms of episode count, though. So really, we're not comparing apples to apples. Arrow's first 20 episodes or so are very different than the totality of the show.

It's a close fight though, of course. And as with many close threads, the comments I disagree with most are those that think it's a stomp one way or another.

Agreed. With your reasoning and choice. Anyone who calls this a stomp needs his head examined.

Ollie wins, with ease.

Originally posted by cdtm
Anyone who calls this a stomp needs his head examined.

Ollie wins, with ease.

doh

Originally posted by Dreampanther
doh

You have an argument or did you facepalm it out your head?

Originally posted by Classic NES
You have an argument or did you facepalm it out your head?

TFW you have to try and explain the obvious to somebody.

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2vj98wj.jpg

Originally posted by cdtm
Just like against Castle?

Castle also wins.

Arrow.

DD. like everyone said IMO DD has had more and better training and better damage soak and IMO a better fighter. I do not think that Arrow could keep up with DD. A lot of fights Arrow doesn't just shoot people he almost always gets into a H2H with someone (kinda lame but he just about ALWAYS H2H in show). I think that DD would win the H2H and there wouldnt be the later chance.

Originally posted by staxamillion
DD. like everyone said IMO DD has had more and better training

Everyone didn't state that, I certainly do not agree with those statements. Ollie clearly had more training and a better variety as shown by the following:

He was trained on the island by Yao, Shado, and Deathstroke. In Hong Kong he was trained by Maseo Yamashiro, Katana's husband while working for Amanda Waller. In Nanda Parbat he received training from the League of Assassins and Ra's Al Ghul. In Russia he received even more training from the Bratva and later Talia Al Ghul.

Originally posted by staxamillion
and better damage soak and IMO a better fighter. I do not think that Arrow could keep up with DD.

Arrow simply has more feats here against more enhanced competition. Ollie has taken hits and still won against soldiers on Mirakuru, in which multiple bullets shots were needed to even slow them down. Including defeating Arsenal when he was on that stuff and Deathstroke. Also beat legit superhumans like Brick who tanked headshots at close range.

DD and Elektra at times had to struggle against Hand ninjas and had to be saved by Stick. Also one young looking ninja was able to shoot DD with an arrow and fight him evenly for a while, even after Elektra tried to assist DD. And Punisher was absolutely a match for DD in h2h, as they had a couple of stalemates. So I really don't get that argument that Arrow couldn't keep up, when he has performed better against better.

6Tqi4h5UGyg

Originally posted by staxamillion
A lot of fights Arrow doesn't just shoot people he almost always gets into a H2H with someone (kinda lame but he just about ALWAYS H2H in show). I think that DD would win the H2H and there wouldnt be the later chance.

That's contradicts your own point of view. So if most of Arrow's fights go h2h, that means he has much more experience and increased skill in h2h against DD who also fight mostly h2h. Therefore, DD doesn't have an advantage in feats in h2h combat.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Everyone didn't state that, I certainly do not agree with those statements. Ollie clearly had more training and a better variety as shown by the following:

He was trained on the island by Yao, Shado, and Deathstroke. In Hong Kong he was trained by Maseo Yamashiro, Katana's husband while working for Amanda Waller. In Nanda Parbat he received training from the League of Assassins and Ra's Al Ghul. In Russia he received even more training from the Bratva and later Talia Al Ghul.



Arrow simply has more feats here against more enhanced competition. Ollie has taken hits and still won against soldiers on Mirakuru, in which multiple bullets shots were needed to even slow them down. Including defeating Arsenal when he was on that stuff and Deathstroke. Also beat legit superhumans like Brick who tanked headshots at close range.

DD and Elektra at times had to struggle against Hand ninjas and had to be saved by Stick. Also one young looking ninja was able to shoot DD with an arrow and fight him evenly for a while, even after Elektra tried to assist DD. And Punisher was absolutely a match for DD in h2h, as they had a couple of stalemates. So I really don't get that argument that Arrow couldn't keep up, when he has performed better against better.

6Tqi4h5UGyg



That's contradicts your own point of view. So if most of Arrow's fights go h2h, that means he has much more experience and increased skill in h2h against DD who also fight mostly h2h. Therefore, DD doesn't have an advantage in feats in h2h combat.


clapping

Couldn't have said it better.

i was referring to those that think that DD would win. Arrow hasn't had as much or as consistent training as DD. he couldn't have had that much time with each 'sensei' so IMO DD has the training advantage.

And Arrow struggled with a guy with brass knucks...

it doesn't contradict because he almost always gets into H2H and then has to use an arrow to finish or get away.

i don't see why DD wouldn't be able to close the gap between the two and remove the long range threat. if Ollie fights the way he does on Arrow and Matt fights the way he does on DD i'll give it to DD.

Originally posted by staxamillion
i was referring to those that think that DD would win. Arrow hasn't had as much or as consistent training as DD. he couldn't have had that much time with each 'sensei' so IMO DD has the training advantage.

And Arrow struggled with a guy with brass knucks...

it doesn't contradict because he almost always gets into H2H and then has to use an arrow to finish or get away.

i don't see why DD wouldn't be able to close the gap between the two and remove the long range threat. if Ollie fights the way he does on Arrow and Matt fights the way he does on DD i'll give it to DD.

What "Guy with brass knuckles"?

Bronze Tiger. Or maybe he's referring to Danny Brick.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Bronze Tiger. Or maybe he's referring to Danny Brick.

Oliver never lost to either.

Post said struggled. Which he did.

Edit: My bad, meant Tobias Church.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Post said struggled. Which he did.

They stalemated the first time when the police interfered in the fight. He never struggled against the bronze tiger.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Edit: My bad, meant Tobias Church.

Lol, he allowed Tobias Church to beat him so ragman could save him and become a hero.

Originally posted by staxamillion
i was referring to those that think that DD would win. Arrow hasn't had as much or as consistent training as DD. he couldn't have had that much time with each 'sensei' so IMO DD has the training advantage.

And Arrow struggled with a guy with brass knucks...

it doesn't contradict because he almost always gets into H2H and then has to use an arrow to finish or get away.

i don't see why DD wouldn't be able to close the gap between the two and remove the long range threat. if Ollie fights the way he does on Arrow and Matt fights the way he does on DD i'll give it to DD.

What training did DD receive that supports your position? IIRC he was only trained by Stick who abandoned him as a child. So being trained by Stick for an unspecified while as a child is greater or better than all the training we know that Arrow had. Arrow was training and surviving on the Island for five years. Arrow has also continued to improve as he was no match for Ras Al Ghul the first time, but after being trained by Ras, Arrow beat him in combat in the rematch.

Arrow most impressive feats are h2h. Again if we judge according to feats that happen in the shows, Arrow's combat feats are better. If one chooses to ignore what Arrow has done and vote because of prettier choreography, then of course DD wins.

I was thinking since he started at an earlier age he had more time to train himself.

they way I see it and maybe its because they have to make a show a certain way, that Ollie does struggle with H2H. like that guy who couldn't feel pain. Ollie always gets tossed around some before closes the deal so he's not IMO better.

Ra's was a bad ass for a super long time and had knowledge, wisdom, and xp, but killing him doesn't mean he is gets the benefit of all that. and he was killed only after getting the upper hand.

Wow i think that Danco of youtube used my idea.
https://youtu.be/bSOrab-gmbI

Green arrow fought the flash and deathstroke.