Battlezone: Shuma-Gorath vs Lord Beerus

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Defended by MythLord:


- Random encounter
- Standard morals
- Fight takes place in some random, limbo universe that's indestructable
- The loser gets hentai-ed

Let's begin...

I'll start with some general hype and sh!t; Blue Marvel identifies Shuma-Gorath as a level 8 threat, yet Thanos, his Black Order and his army invading Earth is only a level 7 threat. In other words, Shuma-Gorath is superior to Thanos, his Black Order and his army.
The commanders of his Black Order are all exceptionally powerful, just off the top of my head Proxima Midnight wields a spear fashioned from a star that can overpower the Hulk and is capable of severely damaging Hyperion, Captain America and Captain Marvel. Then you have Ebony Maw who can make Doctor Strange his puppet that only does tasks that please it's master.
And Thanos, well you know what Thanos is capable of.

This is also confirmed to be an insignificant portion of Shuma's power. It was likened to a "a fingernail scratching at our reality"
So Shuma literally has more power in his "finger" than Thanos, his armies and his Black Order have.

Additionaly, Shuma-Gorath renders Doctor Strange's spells and enchantments useless:

Few things to note:
- This is Shuma-Gorath who just barely began to enter our reality through the mind of the Ancient One, which means this isn't even his full power
- This is classic Strange, the same guy who is capable of outperforming the Pheonix against a Starved Galactus, defeating the In-Betweener, destroying a dimension, contending with Zom briefly, and getting high praise from both the Living Tribunal and the Beyonder

Stephen also comments how he's never felt a power such as the weakened Shuma-Gorath's, implying the latter's superiority over Dormammu:

There's of course more proof that Shuma is considerably above Dormammu, but I'll get into that later. For now the scan above is enough. Dormammu himself should be capable of challenging Beerus and is on the Hakaishin's level of power. Again, I'll get into more detail about why Dormammu is on Beerus' level as this debate continues, but for now Dormammu's feat against Eternity should be enough.
Dormammu fights Eternity; during the fight, Strange notes that both are threatened to be vanquished/destroyed and the narration confirms that Dormammu is disintegrating Eternity's essence and their conflict is shredding the very fabric of being/reality(i.e. the multiverse):

This puts Dormammu at least in the universal tier of power(approximately on Beerus' general level) and a weakened Shuma-Gorath is above him.

Another good thing in Shuma's favour is that he's impossible to kill permanently. As Shuma himself notes, he can be held back but not destroyed and his power can be drained but he is literally nothing more than a manifestation of power and will regenerate:

In fact, the only reason Strange even managed to temporarily "destroy"(banish) Shuma-Gorath is because he merged with it then proceeded to commit suicide:

This leaves Beerus in a tough spot as he's facing something that is more powerful than him and is a literal manifestation of power he can only hope to delay, not completely destroy.

This should be enough for now. The ball's in your court, Skillz. :3

You do realize what a Battlezone thread is, right? Please let this not end up like Zeno vs Bill. It's just for me and Skillz to debate in.




Let's begin; Part I:
Shuma-Gorath/Beerus power comparison

Yeah, basic teleportation/opening portals is nothing impressive. Galactus is capable of sending an entire dimensions from one side of the universe to another, and he's nothing compared to Shuma.

This is nice, but I'll do you one better. A starved Galactus is capable of easily destroying three star systems and more. A single star system is already much bigger than a solar system, and Galactus destroyed three. I'd also like to mention that "blowing away" and "destroying" aren't the same things and the latter is actually more impressive. Next, a well-fed Galactus is rivalled by Tenebrous of the Darkness In-Between and Aegis of All Sorrows:

Aegis got one-shotted by a servant of the Many Angled Ones:

The most powerful of the Many Angled Ones are Yot-Sotar, Nyerlathortech and Shuma-Gorath:

And Shuma-Gorath is the most powerful/greatest one of them:

In other words, Shuma-Gorath > Yot-Sotar/Nyerlathortech > lesser Many Angled Ones >> Many Angled One's servants >>> Aegis/Tenebrous, Galactus. Shuma-Gorath is capable of one-shotting beings superior to beings that can one-shot Galactus-tier powerhouses. And this is not the only way to prove Shuma is astronomically ahead of Galactus-tier beings, but I'll get to that later.

This puts Gorath's casual attacks far above multi-galaxy level, even. In fact, a slight portion of his power given to Doctor Strange was enough to shatter galaxies just by Strange existing in the same universe as said galaxies.

A fairly impressive feat, I agree, but universe busting, even casual at that, is nothing compared to Shuma-Gorath. A servant of Satannish, Helleyes, has created and rules over a thousand universes/hells in each of his thousand eyes, and within those universes there exists another thousand eyes which contain pocket dimensions of their own:

Helleyes is nothing but a servant of Satannish, who in turn is a servant/creation of Dormammu, who in turn is outclassed by Shuma-Gorath.

Nice. But until you can quantify Beerus being astronomically above Shuma-Gorath, which you can't, I doubt this would come into play.

I find it doubtful that Goku is really capable of matching or surpassing even Dormammu, much less Shuma-Gorath.

Same goes for Shuma, really.

Part II:

Meh, I wasn't really posting this to prove Shuma > Beerus, just random wank to show off how powerful he can be. Anyways, your interpretation is sound, but as for the "destroying two suns" thing -- Gorath has that beat by a mile. As I previously mentioned, a portion of Shuma-Gorath's power that was given to Doctor Strange was enough to destroy galaxies merely by Strange standing next to them:

This is much more impressive since it's only a portion of Shuma's power and it destroys galaxies without any exertion of power. Beerus sneezing, despite it being a very small exertion of power, is still unleashing some form of blast. Strange simply has to exist and that's enough to destroy a galaxy or two, which is infinitely more impressive.

I was actually comparing Strange's performance against Galactus against Phoenix's performance; in which case, Strange came out as considerably better, hence he's a good deal better than Phoenix, who destroys Solar Systems as a side-effect of travelling.

Dormammu once believed Eternity to be the most powerful being in existance, which makes sense since at the time the Living Tribunal wasn't even a concept as a character. Anyways, in later times, where Eternity is indeed an incarnation of the multiverse, Dormammu has(thanks to Umar) reached a level where he can defeated Eternity:

And it's confirmed that the Eternity Dormammu defeated up there was actually a multiverse(multiple universes being born and dying is just a fraction of Eternity):

This is further established in The Ultimates II:

So as of now, Dormammu is capable of defeating the very Multiverse itself, or at least possesses more than 50% of it's power. Now as for the attack being suicidal... it wasn't. Though it seems as much at first glance, Dormammu actually survived, he was merely banished by the attack whereas Eternity needed to actually recover:

Dormammu never served Death, though admittedly Shuma-Gorath once did, but this has long-since been retconned. As of now, Shuma-Gorath rules a (multi)universe that's directly opposed to Death and a ritual from Shuma's followers destroyed Death itself within the Cancerverse:

In fact, the major role of Thanos in the Thanos Imperative is to free Death herself from the Cancerverses grasp, and even then Death only destroyed Shuma's underlings but not Shuma-Gorath itself. Shuma has been directly opposed to death for over a decade now.

Good thing this is 60s Dormammu, who's afterwards had a bountiful amount of extreme power-growths and as of now stands as at least comparable to Eternity, the very manifestation of the multiverse(they've always been more-or-less equals, throughout their 50-odd-years of existance). And Shuma makes Dormammu look pathetic by comparison by all accounts, anyways.

Yeah, Shuma can be banished if you absorb what's left of it's power and thus become it, something that drove Strange to committing suicide. Assuming Beerus even kills Shuma, which I doubt, he in turn would become Shuma which would still count as a victory for Gorath.

We shall see. Good luck. thumb up

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