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Who's a more powerful magician and who takes it?

Hmm.
Strange is probably a BETTER magician. Odin has more personal power. He's a being a magician might call on to power a spell.

How badly does Strange want to win and can he access his mystical talismans? He only needs one and nothing Odin can do will save him.

Strange

But Odin can access his power instantaneously, he can stop time or simply blast Strange right off the bat. Strange needs time to do things and he wont have it here. Odin wins.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
But Odin can access his power instantaneously, he can stop time or simply blast Strange right off the bat. Strange needs time to do things and he wont have it here. Odin wins.
If Strange is allowed to use ONE of his artifacts :
https://s18.postimg.org/60306tt3t/image.jpg
Nothing Odin does will grant him a win (Destroyer included).

I dont disagree with you on that. Where in op does it say he gets an artifact?

Originally posted by zopzop
How badly does Strange want to win and can he access his mystical talismans? He only needs one and nothing Odin can do will save him.

Not an expert on strange (Infact, I just started learning about him). What are his various talisman and what can they do?

Originally posted by Classic NES
Not an expert on strange (Infact, I just started learning about him). What are his various talisman and what can they do?
Honestly most of his artifacts aside from the Book of the Vishanti and the Eye of Agamotto are very forgettable EXCEPT the one in my previous post : The Wings of Needless Sorrow.

Ridiculously overpowered object that absorbs all magic (with no apparent upper limit).

Then just stick to standard equipment.

odin wrecks him. strange was never shown to be able to beat loki.

Originally posted by zopzop
If Strange is allowed to use ONE of his artifacts :
https://s18.postimg.org/60306tt3t/image.jpg
Nothing Odin does will grant him a win (Destroyer included).
I think you're overselling this.

Originally posted by riv6672
I think you're overselling this.
Dr Strange, who had his body and power stolen from him by Dormammu, was turned into a mouse without even a human soul (even empaths couldn't sense him). He was completely powerless and reduced to an animal.

Dormammu had fully manifested himself on Earth. Mouse Strange with the Wings of Needless Sorrow was owning the sh|t out of Dormammu (fully manifested on Earth with inside Strange's body with ALL of Strange's powers). The only reason he didn't outright kill Dormammu with the Wings is because he had recently been purified from his "Black Mage" status and he'd also wind up destroying his own body!

Dr. Strange ATE Shuma Gorath's most powerful demon, Arioch, with the Wings. Dr. Strange was draining Shuma Gorath himself, in Gorath's own dimension, with the Wings. In case you doubt Gorath's power, just recently in an issue of Dr. Strange, Dormammu himself admitted Gorath was the more powerful demon lord.

strange is, and has always been plot devicey. does he have objects that could allow him to win this? sure, he probably does. but these objects are rarely used on multiple occasions and as you said require some prep time to gather. i suppose he could summon it, but again i'd call into question the in-character viability of his doing that. and if we assume strange can simply blink in devices, we should assume odin can as well. and there are a few....really powerful artifacts odin could call on.

in a straight up confrontation, odin kills him. given prep and access to items strange CAN win, but if we give odin the same stip, it is certainly not a sure thing. one-sided prep is obviously strange's best bet, but even then i don't think he's guaranteed victory in anyway, not if we look at his entire history (ie, how much prep did he need to barely beat dracula, to just survive mephisto....?) strange's highs are great. but he's not all highs and that has been demonstrated on the forum any number of times.

^^^well put.
Also, Odin has personal power he can call on at will.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^well put.
Also, Odin has personal power he can call on at will.
Odin is nothing to to Wings.
https://s10.postimg.org/s8qys9tut/5673998_3664229290_12_jp.jpg https://s10.postimg.org/urcnsyfl1/5673999_5379750496_18_jp.jpg

The "Magic Killers" hate Shuma Gorath most of all mystic entities. They take control of him and he manhandles Dormammu like an insect! Strange with the Wings was more than a match for Gorath in his own realm.

Originally posted by zopzop
Odin is nothing to to Wings.
https://s10.postimg.org/s8qys9tut/5673998_3664229290_12_jp.jpg https://s10.postimg.org/urcnsyfl1/5673999_5379750496_18_jp.jpg

The "Magic Killers" hate Shuma Gorath most of all mystic entities. They take control of him and he manhandles Dormammu like an insect! Strange with the Wings was more than a match for Gorath in his own realm.

This is PIS, how did the Emperikul manage to beat an old one? I get that they can negate magic, but come on.

Originally posted by Classic NES
This is PIS, how did the Emperikul manage to beat an old one? I get that they can negate magic, but come on.
They were wiping out magic EVERYWHERE. But the purpose of the scans was to show how powerful Shuma Gorath is in comparison to Dormammu.

What issue was that? Last I read something with dormammu in it he still had that long robe costume

All it shows is gim holding Dormammu. There is no mention of him being more powerful.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
All it shows is gim holding Dormammu. There is no mention of him being more powerful.
lookaround
Yeah, Shuma was embracing his new friend.

WoNS isn't a standard artifact of his at all. And all the other artifacts aren't that effective in battle except for the fact that they amp Strange when he's in their vicinity, but not by much. Certainly not on a level anywhere near Odin tbh.

Also, i believe it was stated that Dormammu's power exceeds WoNS's.

This has been falling on deaf ears.

Odin is a far more powerful magician than Strange with an infinitely greater power source that is both mystical and cosmic. Not even much of a contest 99% of the time.

Originally posted by operator616
Also, i believe it was stated that Dormammu's power exceeds WoNS's.
Nope. He bragged that they did but it was proven to be false. Dormammu had all his power PLUS Strange's power stacked on his and Strange was causing him fits. The only reason he couldn't go all out and outright kill Dormammu was because Dormammu had his body. It had to be exorcised (and it was by Topaz).
Dormammu explaining he's now manifest on Earth :
https://s17.postimg.org/5z8l6jktn/image.jpg
Powerless Strange with the Wings BEFORE they've absorbed anything :
https://s17.postimg.org/irwp6gwff/DRSTRSS2_Wings2.jpg
Powerless Strange with the Wings eating Dormammu with Strange's power spells :
https://s17.postimg.org/lamzkw7jf/5333568_3.png

I think Strange would need prep to take out Odin. In just a straight up fight, no. He might be more skilled, but Odins power can lay waste to galaxies.

Originally posted by zopzop
Nope. He bragged that they did but it was proven to be false. Dormammu had all his power PLUS Strange's power stacked on his and Strange was causing him fits. The only reason he couldn't go all out and outright kill Dormammu was because Dormammu had his body. It had to be exorcised (and it was by Topaz).
Dormammu explaining he's now manifest on Earth :
https://s17.postimg.org/5z8l6jktn/image.jpg
Powerless Strange with the Wings BEFORE they've absorbed anything :
https://s17.postimg.org/irwp6gwff/DRSTRSS2_Wings2.jpg
Powerless Strange with the Wings eating Dormammu with Strange's power spells :
https://s17.postimg.org/lamzkw7jf/5333568_3.png

Actually it wasn't a boast, it was Wong who stated that its power is nothing compared to Dormammu's.

http://imgur.com/zbMqrNB

But more on point:

1) Dormammu was never at full power in that arc, since he was still in the process of learning to control the time/space continuum.

2) Strange was absorbing Dormammu's energy to call Clea with whose help (along with Topaz) he defeated Dormammu.

So your WoNS > Dormammu argument hardly applies under these circumstances.

Originally posted by operator616
Actually it wasn't a boast, it was Wong who stated that Dormammu's power is nothing compared to it.

http://imgur.com/zbMqrNB

But more on point:

1) Dormammu was never at full power in that arc, since he was still in the process of learning to control the time/space continuum.

2) Strange was absorbing Dormammu's energy to call Clea with whose help (along with Topaz) he defeated Dormammu.

So your WoNS > Dormammu argument hardly applies under these circumstances.
1) Yes, he stated that but he also stated a) he is now incarnate on Earth, unlike the other times Strange defeated him b) he was MUCH more powerful than the Dormammu that Strange fought before because he also had all of Strange's power. These two statements are right from Dormammu's mouth.

2) Of course. He just got through cleansing himself of the taint of the Wings. During the Black Mage Strange arc, mearly HAVING the Wings tainted him to the point where he felt that he was unworthy of the Eye of Agamotto (and this is BEFORE he used the WIngs to kill another being : Arioch). He also couldn't just kill Dormammu because Dormammu was IN his body (hence why they needed Topaz to exorcise him).

Dr Strange with only the WIngs COULD NOT be put down by Dormammu (incarnate on Earth) with STrange's power.

Originally posted by zopzop
1) Yes, he stated that but he also stated a) he is now incarnate on Earth, unlike the other times Strange defeated him b) he was MUCH more powerful than the Dormammu that Strange fought before because he also had all of Strange's power. These two statements are right from Dormammu's mouth.

2) Of course. He just got through cleansing himself of the taint of the Wings. During the Black Mage Strange arc, mearly HAVING the Wings tainted him to the point where he felt that he was unworthy of the Eye of Agamotto (and this is BEFORE he used the WIngs to kill another being : Arioch). He also couldn't just kill Dormammu because Dormammu was IN his body (hence why they needed Topaz to exorcise him).

Dr Strange with only the WIngs COULD NOT be put down by Dormammu (incarnate on Earth) with STrange's power.

1) Dormammu stated shortly before his battle with Strange that he's not at full power yet.

http://imgur.com/Ok8mVME

Also, the fact that Dormammu was still an "infection" in Strange's body proves that he didn't fully manifest in the earthly dimension yet.

http://imgur.com/ICuIgdG

2) OK? the point was that he was barely holding his own against a depowered Dormammu and had to call Clea to actually overpower him for a bit until topaz exorcises him.

I dont see how this puts WoNS above Dormammu at all.

Originally posted by operator616
1) Dormammu stated shortly before his battle with Strange that he's not at full power yet.

http://imgur.com/Ok8mVME

Also, the fact that Dormammu was still an "infection" in Strange's body proves that he didn't fully manifest in the earthly dimension yet.

http://imgur.com/ICuIgdG

2) OK? the point was that he was barely holding his own against a depowered Dormammu and had to call Clea to actually overpower him for a bit until topaz exorcises him.

I dont see how this puts WoNS above Dormammu at all.
1) Here is what Dormammu said, RIGHT BEFORE the fight started :
"I am more even than Dormammu..."
https://s17.postimg.org/bootquqzz/DRSTRSS2_Wings2.jpg

2) She also called him a "mage of unbelievable power"
https://s3.postimg.org/ahywa0wvz/Dr_Strange_Sorcerersupre02_26.jpg

Keep in mind all this was happening as the timer was running out on Strange to get his body back and he was panicking. When Strange finds the Wings :
"The Wings of Needless Sorrow, more powerful than Dormammu dreams..."
https://s11.postimg.org/71eyfid6n/Dr_Strange_Sorcerersupre02_18.jpg

He was just eating all Dormammu's spells :
https://s7.postimg.org/5vcfkc9zr/Dr_Strange_Sorcerersupre02_24.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
1) Here is what Dormammu said, RIGHT BEFORE the fight started :
"I am more even than Dormammu..."
https://s17.postimg.org/bootquqzz/DRSTRSS2_Wings2.jpg

2) She also called him a "mage of unbelievable power"
https://s3.postimg.org/ahywa0wvz/Dr_Strange_Sorcerersupre02_26.jpg

Keep in mind all this was happening as the timer was running out on Strange to get his body back and he was panicking. When Strange finds the Wings :
"The Wings of Needless Sorrow, more powerful than Dormammu dreams..."
https://s11.postimg.org/71eyfid6n/Dr_Strange_Sorcerersupre02_18.jpg

He was just eating all Dormammu's spells :
https://s7.postimg.org/5vcfkc9zr/Dr_Strange_Sorcerersupre02_24.jpg

1) yes, he is more powerful than regular Dormammu on Earth since he also had Strange's power, that doesn't take away from the fact that he wasn't at full power. Dormammu being on Earth is automatically him being weakened because of his previous vows not to invade Earth.

To sum this up:

that version of Dormammu > regular Dormammu (who's weakened on Earth).

2) And this is supposed to prove what exactly?

3) Also proves nothing

4) Yes, he was absorbing a holding-back, non-fully powered, Dormammu's spells, and all of this just to summon Clea from the dark dimension for help.

http://imgur.com/xjiMRCV
http://imgur.com/UeTSrMC

How does this prove that WoNS > Dormammu again?

Can you at least show me where Strange actually overpowered Dormammu (nevermind the fact that the latter was even weakened)?

Originally posted by operator616

4) Yes, he was absorbing a holding-back, non-fully powered, Dormammu's spells, and all of this just to summon Clea from the dark dimension for help.

http://imgur.com/xjiMRCV
http://imgur.com/UeTSrMC

How does this prove that WoNS > Dormammu again?

Can you at least show me where Strange actually overpowered Dormammu (nevermind the fact that the latter was even weakened)?
Dormammu was holding back? You mean Strange was holding back. Strange couldn't do anything fatal to Dormammu while Dormammu was in his freaking body, hence why they needed an exorcist to remove him! Also keep in mind Strange had just gotten cleansed from his evil deeds with the Wings and wasn't about to go through that experience again.

Also Dormammu straight up said he's more than Dormammu ever was power wise ibecause he had BOTH his power AND Strange's.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dormammu was holding back? You mean Strange was holding back. Strange couldn't do anything fatal to Dormammu while Dormammu was in his freaking body, hence why they needed an exorcist to remove him! Also keep in mind Strange had just gotten cleansed from his evil deeds with the Wings and wasn't about to go through that experience again.

Also Dormammu straight up said he's more than Dormammu ever was power wise ibecause he had BOTH his power AND Strange's.

Dormammu said that he's only using the merest fraction of his power in the energy bolts he was sending against Strange. "underestimating Strange" is perhaps the better way to put it.

Yes, he was more powerful than Dormammu ever was on earth. This is important because we know for a fact that dormammu automatically weakens when he arrives there. Hell, i recall Strange had previously defeated Dormammu singlehandedly on Earth.

Basically, Dormammu was going to become as powerful as he is in the dark dimension if he had fully manifested in Strange's body, thus making him the most powerful incarnation of Dormammu manifested on Earth.

Originally posted by operator616
Dormammu said that he's only using the merest fraction of his power in the energy bolts he was sending against Strange. "underestimating Strange" is perhaps the better way to put it.

Yes, he was more powerful than Dormammu ever was on earth. This is important because we know for a fact that dormammu automatically weakens when he arrives there. Hell, i recall Strange had previously defeated Dormammu singlehandedly on Earth.

Basically, Dormammu was going to become as powerful as he is in the dark dimension if he had fully manifested in Strange's body, thus making him the most powerful incarnation of Dormammu manifested on Earth.
Yes, he INITIALLY used a 'merest fraction of his power' in the energy bolt vs Strange. Then what? The fight kept going and NOTHING Dormammu did had any effect on Strange because of the Wings. Dormammu wanted Strange DEAD, Strange wanted Dormammu OUT of his body. How do you expect Strange to use lethal force against his own body?
https://s8.postimg.org/y9z34o0xt/DrStrangeSorcerersupre01_30.jpg
He had 24 hours and that's it. Time was close to running out before the final showdown.

You also seem to be forgetting Strange had NO power (even his astral form had shrunk to less than a rat), nothing except the Wings.
https://s8.postimg.org/obe4i6ri9/DrStrangeSorcerersupre01_27.jpg

Dormammu, who was fully manifest on Earth and was growing more powerful as tiem went on, with ALL of Strange's powers couldn't do anything to a POWERLESS, BODYLESS Strange with nothing but the Wings to protect him!
https://s8.postimg.org/5iskfpf1t/Dr_Strange_Sorcerersupre02_03.jpg
"New born on Earth with nothing to limit my power!"

The same Dormammu that bound the Eye of Agamotto and rendered it useless :
https://s8.postimg.org/5ujprdbk1/DrStrangeSorcerersupre01_21.jpg

Yet he could do nothing vs the Wings.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, he INITIALLY used a 'merest fraction of his power' in the energy bolt vs Strange. Then what? The fight kept going and NOTHING Dormammu did had any effect on Strange because of the Wings. Dormammu wanted Strange DEAD, Strange wanted Dormammu OUT of his body. How do you expect Strange to use lethal force against his own body?
https://s8.postimg.org/y9z34o0xt/DrStrangeSorcerersupre01_30.jpg
He had 24 hours and that's it. Time was close to running out before the final showdown.


I get that, but on the other hand i still can't find any evidence which conclusively puts the wings above Dormammu? It absorbed some of his energy, so what?

- we know Wong stated that Dormammu > wings.
- we know that Dormammu wasn't at full power and was underestimating Strange
- we know that Strange absorbed some of Dormammu's energy and summoned Clea to "help keep Dormammu at bay"

And that's all we know from that encounter. Where exactly did the wings show the clear superiority you're claiming it has over Dormammu? Because absorbing some of his energy sure as hell doesn't prove anything.

Originally posted by zopzop

You also seem to be forgetting Strange had NO power (even his astral form had shrunk to less than a rat), nothing except the Wings.
https://s8.postimg.org/obe4i6ri9/DrStrangeSorcerersupre01_27.jpg


Well aware.

Originally posted by zopzop

Dormammu, who was fully manifest on Earth and was growing more powerful as tiem went on, with ALL of Strange's powers couldn't do anything to a POWERLESS, BODYLESS Strange with nothing but the Wings to protect him!
https://s8.postimg.org/5iskfpf1t/Dr_Strange_Sorcerersupre02_03.jpg
"New born on Earth with nothing to limit my power!"


Ive already been over this, he was not fully manifested as per his own admission along with the fact that he was still an infection inside Strange's body. I mean, you referenced this yourself when you mentioned about the 24 hour window. This means that only after the 24 hours will Dormammu be fully powered which he was not during his battle with Strange.

Originally posted by zopzop

The same Dormammu that bound the Eye of Agamotto and rendered it useless :
https://s8.postimg.org/5ujprdbk1/DrStrangeSorcerersupre01_21.jpg

Yet he could do nothing vs the Wings.

Yeah well, 4 issues later that same eye of Agamotto couldnt even break Mephisto's force globe. So not impressed.