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Which is the superior technique?

What do you want to do?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What do you want to do?

Against the rules?

Kamehameha from whom?

HV from whom?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Kamehameha from whom?

HV from whom?

In general.

Kamehameha, easily.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Kamehameha, easily.

Why easily?

Originally posted by Classic NES
Against the rules?

No, I meant what do you want to do with it?

HV, for example, can go invisible and perform surgery, depowering people.

Kamehama would actually hit Batman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, I meant what do you want to do with it?

HV, for example, can go invisible and perform surgery, depowering people.

Kamehama would actually hit Batman.

Precision, Range, and Raw Power.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Why easily?

At absolute worst, kamehameha can "just" wreck a car.

At worst, hv barely does anything, just harms a normal human a little. That was wearing special kevlar suit.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
At absolute worst, kamehameha can "just" wreck a car.

At worst, hv barely does anything, just harms a normal human a little. That was wearing special kevlar suit.

So, it comes down to destructive power. Why am I not surprised.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Precision, Range, and Raw Power.

I will defer to the DBZ fans for this. What's the top for all three? Final, probably.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I will defer to the DBZ fans for this. What's the top for all three? Final, probably.

KHH is only useful for blowing crap up. It's precision and range aren't impressive. Goku can never do anything like this:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/y01ZM.jpg

Try harder, little boy.

Yamcha could rape all Kryptonians at the same time and I'm not even joking.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Try harder, little boy.

Yamcha could rape all Kryptonians at the same time and I'm not even joking.

I know you're not, that's what makes it funny. Dee Bee Zee fanboys always wank to the extreme. But, seriously you think anyone in Dee Bee Zee can shoot a projectile with that range and arch? Outside of the non-canon anime.

You mean range or accuracy? If the latter, then Supes has feats like erasing the tracking chips from Bruce's skull... if range itself, then no, Superman's hv can go f*ck itself.

Any casual fan knows DC is no match for DB(Z).

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You mean range or accuracy? If the latter, then Supes has feats like erasing the tracking chips from Bruce's skull... if range itself, then no, Superman's hv can go f*ck itself.

Any casual fan knows DC is no match for DB(Z).

What's the range of a kamehameha?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What's the range of a kamehameha?

SP Cell was about to bust the whole solar system with it, if not stopped by SSJ2 Gohan.

His boast was confirmed by the bio info.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Try harder, little boy.

Yamcha could rape all Kryptonians at the same time and I'm not even joking.

Did Yamcha get some massive massive power up in the new DBZ stuff?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
SP Cell was about to bust the whole solar system with it, if not stopped by SSJ2 Gohan.

His boast was confirmed by the bio info.

The range of the beam, SP Cell said he'd gathered enough energy to blow up a solar system and since KHH explodes he was technically telling the truth.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
His boast was confirmed by the bio info.

Wait we use bio info now? Cuz there is no feat of Cell anywhere near that.

Originally posted by Surtur
Did Yamcha get some massive massive power up in the new DBZ stuff?

No, his standard DBZ showings are more than enough.

King Kai training, then training in the afterlife... classic Roshi could already bust a moon with a kamehameha, pre-KK Piccolo could do so too obviously, with a less powerful technique - demon wave.

Superman is nobody.

Originally posted by Surtur
Did Yamcha get some massive massive power up in the new DBZ stuff?

lol no, outside of his spin-off manga.

Originally posted by Surtur
Wait we use bio info now? Cuz there is no feat of Cell anywhere near that.

Of course there is. Simple math. Roshi, at the power level of 136, could and did bust a moon.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
SP Cell was about to bust the whole solar system with it, if not stopped by SSJ2 Gohan.

His boast was confirmed by the bio info.

So....what's the confirmed range?

Earth - Moon, I think.

And that's PL 136 Kamehameha.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Of course there is. Simple math. Roshi, at the power level of 136, could and did bust a moon.

Let's use some math. According to Babidi, it takes a minimum of 300 "kili" to destroy a planet. Goku, when he was fighting Yakon at SSJ1, had a power level of about 3000 kili. So, according to math, he's only 10 times more powerful than a normal planet buster during the Buu saga.


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Earth - Moon, I think.

And that's PL 136 Kamehameha.

Here comes the power scaling nonsense.

"Only".

So about 1000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0
00,000,000 times more powerful than Superman, is what you're saying...?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
"Only".

So about 1000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0
00,000,000 times more powerful than Superman, is what you're saying...?

Power levels are arbitrary numbers that mean nothing. That's why Toriyama ditched them.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Earth - Moon, I think.

And that's PL 136 Kamehameha. Yeah, that is the farthest distance a Kamehameha has ever traveled -- and that was more of a dues ex moment, so that Oozaru transformations could be taken out of play all together.


Most times a Kamehameha is depicted 'dissipating' soon after leaving earth's atmosphere:
https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/34176252_Dragon_Ball_Z_v19-031.jpg https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/34176263_Dragon_Ball_Z_v19-032.jpg https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/34176270_Dragon_Ball_Z_v19-033.jpg https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/34176280_Dragon_Ball_Z_v19-034.jpg https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/34176286_Dragon_Ball_Z_v19-035.jpg https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/34176296_Dragon_Ball_Z_v19-036.jpg https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/34176301_Dragon_Ball_Z_v19-037.jpg

*That was SSJ2 kid Gohan, whose PL would logically be in the hundredS of millionS.

So same as HV, then.

So far:

Precision: HV
Range: Same

Precision- HV.
Range- Equal.
Raw power- Kamehameha.


That much, at least, really isn't debatable.

Originally posted by Galan007
Precision- HV.
Range- Equal.
Raw power- Kamehameha.


That much, at least, really isn't debatable. Pretty Much

Originally posted by Galan007
Precision- HV.
Range- Equal.
Raw power- Kamehameha.


That much, at least, really isn't debatable.

I can get behind that.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-17-2015/4pNgPL.gif

5Ixss26VoOI

thats goku getting killed by the most powerful being in the universe

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
thats goku getting killed by the most powerful being in the universe

Sorbet is the most powerful being in the universe?

Originally posted by Classic NES
KHH is only useful for blowing crap up. It's precision and range aren't impressive. Goku can never do anything like this:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/y01ZM.jpg

He was amped when he did this.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Of course there is. Simple math. Roshi, at the power level of 136, could and did bust a moon.

So you're using the shitty power level system and not feats, okie dokie.

@Philo...

Context in that showing. Context.

Originally posted by Surtur
So you're using the shitty power level system and not feats, okie dokie.

How much power do you think Cell would have to put into a blast to repeat what Roshi did?

Originally posted by carver9
How much power do you think Cell would have to put into a blast to repeat what Roshi did?

I don't know. Why does this mean Cell can destroy a solar system?

I agree, using the shitty power levels system, sure he can. I thought we used feats, thanks for correcting me bro.

Originally posted by Surtur
I don't know. Why does this mean Cell can destroy a solar system?

I agree, using the shitty power levels system, sure he can. I thought we used feats, thanks for correcting me bro.

Anime and comics are two different things, especially DBZ since their entire system is based off power levels. It's like saying Nappa can't destroy the moon because he doesn't have the fts even though we know he could easily do it without even taking the approach of doing it.

Cell doesn't have a single ft showing he can destroy a planet...do you think he can do it.

Originally posted by Surtur
So you're using the shitty power level system and not feats, okie dokie.

The entire DB is based on that system.

Originally posted by carver9
Anime and comics are two different things, especially DBZ since their entire system is based off power levels.

And right there is why people dislike debating DBZ fans. You seem to want a different set of rules because reasons. Or in this case: because anime.



Nah, it's not like saying that, cuz Nappa casually overpowered people who can destroy a moon. Did Cell overpower someone who could destroy a solar system or something?



He can destroy a planet, because that is an established level of power on the show at the time. Solar system busting? Was not.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The entire DB is based on that system.

Sucks for DBZ then, since this is a forum based on feats, no?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The entire DB is based on that system.

Cell can't destroy an island because he doesn't have the fts. I wonder why so many people on KMC think Superman or Hulk can destroy a planet. Neither has done it, so I'm trying to figure out why they think this. Hell, can Doomsday destroy one? He did punch the ground before and he is known for not holding back.

Originally posted by carver9
Cell can't destroy an island because he doesn't have the fts. I wonder why so many people on KMC think Superman or Hulk can destroy a planet. Neither has done it, so I'm trying to figure out why they think this. Hell, can Doomsday destroy one? He did punch the ground before and he is known for not holding back.

Lol don't say silly things. Cell didn't show the power to destroy a solar system. Nobody did.

Now, if you can say that nobody showed the power to destroy an island, ever, you would have a point. Are you saying nobody ever destroyed an island in the entire history of Dragonball?

Originally posted by carver9
He was amped when he did this.

Okay and?

I didn't say normal level heat vision. I said all heat vision.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The entire DB is based on that system.

No, it isn't. It was introduced with the scouter and ditched after they stopped using them. It's as important to the plot as Senzu beans, probably less so.

Originally posted by Surtur
Sucks for DBZ then, since this is a forum based on feats, no?

Actually, statements are being used here all the time...

DBZ isn't even allowed on this forum, if you want to get technical.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Actually, statements are being used here all the time...

DBZ isn't even allowed on this forum, if you want to get technical.

Statements backed up by feats. I ask again: Cell destroying 1/4 of a solar system, just for some supporting evidence? Something, anything, to lend credence to his claim. Cuz there is a boatload of difference between a planet and a solar system.

If you wanna get technical, heat vision has sealed holes in creation, yes?

Heat Vision destroying more than 1/20 of a random junkyard?

Are you under the impression I said heat vision has more destructive power? I'm just telling you that no, Cell isn't destroying a solar system, not in one shot.

Originally posted by Surtur
And right there is why people dislike debating DBZ fans. You seem to want a different set of rules because reasons. Or in this case: because anime.



Nah, it's not like saying that, cuz Nappa casually overpowered people who can destroy a moon. Did Cell overpower someone who could destroy a solar system or something?



He can destroy a planet, because that is an established level of power on the show at the time. Solar system busting? Was not.

It's common sense tbh. If someone is far more powerful, they would generate more power in their blasts. It's like saying Superman heat vision is equal to Prime heat vision when we know the level of power Prime is at means that he would generate far more power.

Wait a minute, strength and blasting power are two different things. Roshi destroyed the moon, so show me Roshi blast being overpowered by Nappa blast.

So you are limiting DBZ blasts at planetary level. Something that a weak Vegeta was able to do? So no one on the show is above planetary?

Originally posted by carver9
It's common sense tbh. If someone is far more powerful, they would generate more power in their blasts. It's like saying Superman heat vision is equal to Prime heat vision when we know the level of power Prime is at means that he would generate far more power.

Wait a minute, strength and blasting power are two different things. Roshi destroyed the moon, so show me Roshi blast being overpowered by Nappa blast.

So you are limiting DBZ blasts at planetary level. Something that a weak Vegeta was able to do? So no one on the show is above planetary?

I'm saying that the established level of power at the time was nowhere near solar system destroying(in one shot) and thus Cells claim seems like hyperbole at best.

We have feats of other people destroying moons and planets. We don't have them one shotting star systems.

You're multiplying power levels based on numbers given, not actual feats.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol don't say silly things. Cell didn't show the power to destroy a solar system. Nobody did.

Now, if you can say that nobody showed the power to destroy an island, ever, you would have a point. Are you saying nobody ever destroyed an island in the entire history of Dragonball?

You are asking for fts. We do not share fts for characters. Example, even though Odin is strong, we wouldn't post scans of Gladiator punching a planet to dust to support Odin being capable of doing it. If you are arguing fts, be consistent. Roshi fts doesn't belong to Cell, so why do you think Cell could destroy an island when he doesn't have the fts? It's not like he won a blast clash against Roshi. Remember, Roshi fts doesn't belong to Cell.

Originally posted by Surtur
Sucks for DBZ then, since this is a forum based on feats, no?

I don't have a problem with the power-scaling and people saying that feats from weaker characters can be replicated by stronger characters. Because in DBZ they all use most of the same powers: Chi or Qi (However it's spelled). What I do have a problem with is when DBZ tards start abusing it and saying nonsense like SSJ( insert number here) can destroy the universe because he's a million times stronger than Cell who can destroy a Solar System. I hate that kind of abuse.

Originally posted by carver9
You are asking for fts. We do not share fts for characters. Example, even though Odin is strong, we wouldn't post scans of Gladiator punching a planet to dust to support Odin being capable of doing it. If you are arguing fts, be consistent. Roshi fts doesn't belong to Cell, so why do you think Cell could destroy an island when he doesn't have the fts? It's not like he won a blast clash against Roshi. Remember, Roshi fts doesn't belong to Cell.

I'm talking about established power levels though, how hard is this to understand?

Goku never destroyed a planet, but I wouldn't say he couldn't do it.

I would indeed say that nah, Cell isn't one shotting a solar system anywhere but in a DBZ fanboys wet dream.

Originally posted by Classic NES
I don't have a problem with the power-scaling and people saying that feats from weaker characters can be replicated by stronger characters. Because in DBZ they all use most of the same powers: Chi or Qi (However it's spelled). What I do have a problem with is when DBZ tards start abusing it and saying nonsense like SSJ( insert number here) can destroy the universe because he's a million times stronger than Cell who can destroy a Solar System. I hate that kind of abuse.

Exactly, it's "Cell is a billion million times more powahful!' which, nah, he's not. Show the feats or stop talking about him nuking solar systems in one shot.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm saying that the established level of power at the time was nowhere near solar system destroying(in one shot) and thus Cells claim seems like hyperbole at best.

We have feats of other people destroying moons and planets. We don't have them one shotting star systems.

You're multiplying power levels based on numbers given, not actual feats.

Again, if you are claiming Cell need fts, you do not share other character showing to Cell. I'm asking you, what showings of Cell makes you believe he can destroy a planet?

I'm asking you a question. Power levels mean nothing to you which means Roshi blasting power doesn't hold credit for Cell showing. So again, what makes you think Cell can destroy a moon or a planet if he doesn't have the showings? My question is simple.

Originally posted by carver9
It's common sense tbh. If someone is far more powerful, they would generate more power in their blasts. It's like saying Superman heat vision is equal to Prime heat vision when we know the level of power Prime is at means that he would generate far more power.

Wait a minute, strength and blasting power are two different things. Roshi destroyed the moon, so show me Roshi blast being overpowered by Nappa blast.

So you are limiting DBZ blasts at planetary level. Something that a weak Vegeta was able to do? So no one on the show is above planetary?

Carver, you can speculate an upper limit being higher. But, you DBZ guys tend to abuse this to feat skew. Yes, you can postulate that Goku is above planetary level, but when you start making up numbers or using power levels and saying nonsense like 1 million times stronger, multi-universal and all that wank. Then you shouldn't be taken seriously.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm talking about established power levels though, how hard is this to understand?

Goku never destroyed a planet, but I wouldn't say he couldn't do it.

I would indeed say that nah, Cell isn't one shotting a solar system anywhere but in a DBZ fanboys wet dream.

What established power level though? The only person we seen destroy a planet was Frieza (and Buu). Is that the starting point for planet busting?

Originally posted by Classic NES
Carver, you can speculate an upper limit being higher. But, you DBZ guys tend to abuse this to feat skew. Yes, you can postulate that Goku is above planetary level, but when you start making up numbers or using power levels and saying nonsense like 1 million times stronger, multi-universal and all that wank. Then you shouldn't be taken seriously.

Who said anything about multi verse levels? I'm debating on panel statements/showings. If we are arguing fts, Goku isn't a planet buster, let alone moon or island buster since he has never done it.

It's exactly as the other poster said Carver. Yeah, the nature of DBZ you do need some speculation, some transferring of feats. I am not denying that, I am not saying Goku can't destroy a planet because he never destroyed one.

But don't try to fly too close to the sun on those wings made of wax. There is a limit to this craziness. You need to be given leeway to use these characters, but DBZ fans often try to take advantage of that by assuming all kinds of crazy shit.

I once saw a guy saying SSJ3 Goku could take out galaxies with a twitch of his nose. That's the type of silly nonsense this leads to if you don't know when to reign yourself in with this nutty power level bullshit.

Originally posted by Surtur
Exactly, it's "Cell is a billion million times more powahful!' which, nah, he's not. Show the feats or stop talking about him nuking solar systems in one shot.

Let's not forget everything being reduced to how much crap you can blow up as the only legit way to measure power because that's how it's done in DBZ. So, even if a character like say Xavier can mind-rape you or Proteus can turn your blood into lead. none of it matters because DBZ characters can blow stuff up. Except of course nowadays it's starting to matter again because in DB Super cheap powers are becoming relevant. They orient everything according to the rules of their crappy show. "Goku can't be hurt b psi because his power level" or "Goku can't be frozen in time because his power level". But, when it happens in super it counts again. SMGDH.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's exactly as the other poster said Carver. Yeah, the nature of DBZ you do need some speculation, some transferring of feats. I am not denying that, I am not saying Goku can't destroy a planet because he never destroyed one.

But don't try to fly too close to the sun on those wings made of wax. There is a limit to this craziness.

It is a limit and no one is denying that but when you have the Z fighters pissing their pants, Gohan believing Cell, and Cell himself telling us he is about to destroy the solar system (during his initial attack) and you have power readers believing him, it can't get more concrete. Then you have it being referenced in a bio. It's like saying Superman heat vision isn't as hot as the sun.

Originally posted by carver9
Who said anything about multi verse levels? I'm debating on panel statements/showings. If we are arguing fts, Goku isn't a planet buster, let alone moon or island buster since he has never done it.

I'm talking about power-scaling carver. You know, how DBZ guys use it as a carte blanche to make up whatever feats they think Goku can do because he's a bazillion time more powerful than a guy who blew some sh*t up?

Originally posted by carver9
It is a limit and no one is denying that but when you have the Z fighters pissing their pants, Gohan believing Cell, and Cell himself telling us he is about to destroy the solar system (during his initial attack) and you have power readers believing him, it can't get more concrete. Then you have it being referenced in a bio. It's like saying Superman heat vision isn't as hot as the sun.

What did you expect them to do? Go "well, your blast won't destroy the solar system, but it WILL end all life on this planet, so we're not as worried" ?

Imagine the scene:

Goku: guys, he's lying, this will only destroy like..Earth and maybe Mars, see ya! *Goku flies off*

Originally posted by Classic NES
Let's not forget everything being reduced to how much crap you can blow up as the only legit way to measure power because that's how it's done in DBZ. So, even if a character like say Xavier can mind-rape you or Proteus can turn your blood into lead. none of it matters because DBZ characters can blow stuff up. Except of course nowadays it's starting to matter again because in DB Super cheap powers are becoming relevant. They orient everything according to the rules of their crappy show. "Goku can't be hurt b psi because his power level" or "Goku can't be frozen in time because his power level". But, when it happens in super it counts again. SMGDH.

Guess what. Krillin stomps both Professor and Proteus in the blink of an eye.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's exactly as the other poster said Carver. Yeah, the nature of DBZ you do need some speculation, some transferring of feats. I am not denying that, I am not saying Goku can't destroy a planet because he never destroyed one.

But don't try to fly too close to the sun on those wings made of wax. There is a limit to this craziness. You need to be given leeway to use these characters, but DBZ fans often try to take advantage of that by assuming all kinds of crazy shit.

I once saw a guy saying SSJ3 Goku could take out galaxies with a twitch of his nose. That's the type of silly nonsense this leads to if you don't know when to reign yourself in with this nutty power level bullshit.

M6lWWiVM33w

I'm having flashbacks to a "SSJ4 Goku vs Living Tribunal" on CBR. Ahhhh!

Originally posted by carver9
Guess what. Krillin stomps both Professor and Proteus in the blink of an eye.

Krillin got shot in Super as a Cop and hid behind a car from bullets. "Blink of an eye" lmfao.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Krillin got shot in Super as a Cop and hid behind a car from bullets. "Blink of an eye" lmfao.

Or the power level of the farmer at 5. Seem low? Yeah, except looking at what Roshi can do to the moon with his power level and using some math..the farmer should have been capable of firing off nuke level blasts of energy, at the very least.

Originally posted by Surtur
Or the power level of the farmer at 5. Seem low? Yeah, except looking at what Roshi can do to the moon with his power level and using some math..the farmer should have been capable of firing off nuke level blasts of energy, at the very least.

This never gets old

5Ixss26VoOI

We need to create a new system of numbers to figure out Darkwing Ducks power levels.

Originally posted by Surtur
We need to create a new system of numbers to figure out Darkwing Ducks power levels.

Jason Bourne can kill DBZ

wFmizVM_fKk

These are "God Tier" characters btw.

Several times stronger than a bullet. Not billions or millions, but several times. Hmm, well, I guess we gotta stick to what was said. Since to me "several" means like..maybe 3-5 times stronger than a bullet. It's good to know that is all it takes.

So you are wrong Jason Bourne can't do it, but a dude with a gun with bullets 5 times stronger than normal bullets..can. Where we could find such a cosmically powerful character? I do not know.

Originally posted by Surtur
Several times stronger than a bullet. Not billions or millions, but several times. Hmm, well, I guess we gotta stick to what was said. Since to me "several" means like..maybe 3-5 times stronger than a bullet. It's good to know that is all it takes.

So you are wrong Jason Bourne can't do it, but a dude with a gun with bullets 5 times stronger than normal bullets..can.

I hope the sniper rifle's muzzle velocity was several times stronger too.

The guns were no doubt forged in the heart of a dwarf star.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Sorbet is the most powerful being in the universe? Isnt that Gold Freiza?

Originally posted by Galan007
Precision- HV.
Range- Equal.
Raw power- Kamehameha.


That much, at least, really isn't debatable.

I would have actually thought HV has better range, not that I'm aware of any feat just by a feeling.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Isnt that Gold Freiza?

Until the next one comes along: Platinum Frieza. Bling Bling B*tches.

Originally posted by Classic NES
I don't have a problem with the power-scaling and people saying that feats from weaker characters can be replicated by stronger characters. Because in DBZ they all use most of the same powers: Chi or Qi (However it's spelled). What I do have a problem with is when DBZ tards start abusing it and saying nonsense like SSJ( insert number here) can destroy the universe because he's a million times stronger than Cell who can destroy a Solar System. I hate that kind of abuse. Wouldnt that be true

Originally posted by Surtur
Until the next one comes along: Platinum Frieza. Bling Bling B*tches.

But really, DBZ Characters were supposed to be the most powerful characters in fiction, or something like that (i dont think they considered comics though)

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Isnt that Gold Freiza?

No.

Frieza was down. Sorbet sniped Goku with his ring gun.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Wouldnt that be true

It's not when you use the numbers that Toriyama gives like in the kili system. You get 10 times more powerful than a base planet-buster during the Buu saga as an SSJ1.

I sense booty hurt.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock


But really, DBZ Characters were supposed to be the most powerful characters in fiction, or something like that (i dont think they considered comics though)

Heh, most powerful characters in fiction? Hell no, not even the most powerful in anime. The DBZ fans wish that was the case, but it hilariously is not.

Originally posted by carver9
I sense booty hurt.

You'd know, from those times you've felt it.

Originally posted by Surtur
Heh, most powerful characters in fiction? Hell no, not even the most powerful in anime. The DBZ fans wish that was the case, but it hilariously is not.

Most wanked cartoon of all time.

Originally posted by carver9
I sense serious booty hurt.

Kamehamea is a lot more powerful.

I apologize to you all for being wrong about heat vision sealing holes in creation, my bad!

Originally posted by Surtur
I apologize to you all for being wrong about heat vision sealing holes in creation, my bad!

I'm certain that Heat Vision can seal holes. It can be used to perform surgery. Just saying.

Why do things always get so damn messy every time carver enters a thread..? g007-psyduck


Again, this is all that needs to be said:
Originally posted by Galan007
Precision- HV.
Range- Equal.
Raw power- Kamehameha.


That much, at least, really isn't debatable.

/discussion

Originally posted by Galan007
Why do things always get so damn messy every time carver enters a thread..? g007-psyduck


Again, this is all that needs to be said:


/discussion

Look at some of the stuff that was said on this thread.

I have, and it doesn't really change anything.

That pretty much sums it up.

Much better precision in HV's favor

Range seems to be a wash

Power is overwhelmingly in Kamehamehas favor.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Kamehama would actually hit Batman.

I laughed.

if only Kamehameha doesn't take forever to charge

HV has deflected the Omega Effect.

comparable feats from Kamehameha?

the kamekameha in 1:55 would obliterate Superman into nothingness

_xjp2wkgAJQ&t=73s

Originally posted by MrMind
the kamekameha in 1:55 would obliterate Superman into nothingness

_xjp2wkgAJQ&t=73s


based on..?

Is this even a real question?



Heat Vision has casually affected the fabric of reality.



Here it cuts through a force

as powerful as a black hole.





I dare say, heat vision has feats enough to suggest it can cut through primary adamantium or Cap's shield.

hv sucks

Originally posted by cdtm
Is this even a real question?



Heat Vision has casually affected the fabric of reality.



Here it cuts through a force

as powerful as a black hole.





I dare say, heat vision has feats enough to suggest it can cut through primary adamantium or Cap's shield.

that's cute
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111147274/3700472-0431385949-687f7.jpg

Originally posted by MrMind
that's cute
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111147274/3700472-0431385949-687f7.jpg


You DO get that that is nowhere near as impressive, correct..?

What about this is so difficult for you?

Originally posted by MrMind
that's cute
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111147274/3700472-0431385949-687f7.jpg



Meanwhile Supes can't even kill KO Bats with his hv, lol.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Meanwhile Supes can't even kill KO Bats with his hv, lol.

Cauterizing multiverse space/time apertures>>Black holes>>solar system destroying force.

Are you this ignorant to not recognize this?

Outlier. Nothing more.

It affected intangible Weird, because it works on the molecular level.




And it defeated Blaze, in hell. Destroyed her entire domain:


https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Adventures-of-Superman-1987/Issue-470?id=29527&readType=0#18

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Adventures-of-Superman-1987/Issue-470?id=29527&readType=0#19



Doctor Fate, Raven, and Black Racer all take note of the tremendous power rippling through space and time from Blaze's defeat. All caused by Supermans heat vision.

Originally posted by panthergod
You DO get that that is nowhere near as impressive, correct..?

What about this is so difficult for you?


Cutting through a black hole, or sealing a hole in reality is WAY more impressive then busting a solar system, after Superman busted Blazes dimension with his hv.



Those Blaze scans I just posted have power rippling through the entire universe.

Superman's hv got outperformed by an explosive batarang, fyi.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Outlier. Nothing more.

Point to Cell destroying a solar system, again..?

Originally posted by cdtm
It affected intangible Weird, because it works on the molecular level.




And it defeated Blaze, in hell. Destroyed her entire domain:


https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Adventures-of-Superman-1987/Issue-470?id=29527&readType=0#18

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Adventures-of-Superman-1987/Issue-470?id=29527&readType=0#19



Doctor Fate, Raven, and Black Racer all take note of the tremendous power rippling through space and time from Blaze's defeat. All caused by Supermans heat vision.

It's actually is Atomic level
https://i.imgur.com/DN5XNKY.jpg
Also when he fighting blaze, His power getting waning with every passing second

Not familiar with Dragon ball( Just watched Z in my childhood actually....), So I couldn't said HV or kamekameha which will win just want to adding something Supes impressive showings since I'm a Clarkbag

Master Roshi destroyed the moon with hameha at PL of 139

Cell destroyed the solar system couple decades ago. I don't even wanna get into the power level of DBS since that would be so unfair to Superman

Statements are just as good as feats when dragon ball concerned, that's generally how dragon ball works. Because most supporting casts don't have that many appearances and their feats need scaling

The feat is also valid because

1. it's backed by official guides

2. DB Kai official Japanese TOEI site states he did have power to destroy the entire solar system with his Kamehameha. Kai is the closest to source material


I mean you guys have no trouble taking statements as feats when superman is concerned.

off topic:
I get that Power Level is bullshit
but in this case it makes sense
we know PL of 150 can destroy the moon
we know frieza first form with PL of 530 000 (less than 1 percent of his final form) can easily destroy planet vegeta (way bigger planet than earth)
We know that Perfect Cell is at least hundred of thousands time more powerful than first form Frieza

You'd be insane to think Cell cannot destroy solar system

Originally posted by Galan007
Cell's ability to destroy the solar system with his final Kamehameha was confirmed in an official bio which described the 'Grades' of Super Saiyan...
http://i.imgur.com/fWdlp09.jpg

Translation:
Super Saiyan Grade Five (Super Saiyan 2)
"An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"


...So his statement was a lot more than just an empty boast.

Superman hv produce 1/4 energy of big bang!!!!!!!!

Frieza used 0.025% of his power to destroy planet Vegeta that was larger and more dense than Earth and he did it with one finger...

gNwUCsE2-MU

A Super Saiyan tanked and overpowered that same attack from a FAR more powerful Frieza while standing in one spot smiling. This is ridiculous. Things like this are considered high showings for Heralds whereas tanking attacks from moon buster isnt even an average for Saiyans. Master Roshi can destroy moons. That's Herald level sh**. Imagine if Roshi punched a Super Saiyan head off, the internet would explode because that is the lowest of lowest. Now if Zod punched through a moon and destroyed it while proceeding at caving Superman chest in, the argument here would be "the guy just destroyed a moon, Superman being knocked out by this isnt a low showing". Ultraman moving the moon not too long ago was a high showinG to you all. It was mentioned consistently. Wrecking moons are nothing in Z. Its child's play. The lowest of characters can do it. By the time DBS rolled around, they were calling planet busting weak, characters in the show and was casually one handing people that is a universal threat. Tanking black holes while at near death, no energy. Punching through dimensions, etc, etc...

Let's put it like this, Superman power would register on scouters whereas Saiyan Saga Vegeta power level blows them up. You all was hyped at Superman SUPPOSEDLY surviving a planets destruction. Frieza was near death, cut in half, had no energy whatsoever, face chopped up and he withstood a planet twice the size of Earth blowing up on him. Anyways, Goku kamehameha, the shockwaves from it would melt both Superman and Darkseid at the same time. Heat vision does not compare to what the Z fighters can generate.

I KNEW you couldn't stay away forever.

Carver returns!

Carver, do you even realize how much we missed you?

Originally posted by carver9
Frieza used 0.025% of his power to destroy planet Vegeta that was larger and more dense than Earth and he did it with one finger...

gNwUCsE2-MU

A Super Saiyan tanked and overpowered that same attack from a FAR more powerful Frieza while standing in one spot smiling. This is ridiculous. Things like this are considered high showings for Heralds whereas tanking attacks from moon buster isnt even an average for Saiyans. Master Roshi can destroy moons. That's Herald level sh**. Imagine if Roshi punched a Super Saiyan head off, the internet would explode because that is the lowest of lowest. Now if Zod punched through a moon and destroyed it while proceeding at caving Superman chest in, the argument here would be "the guy just destroyed a moon, Superman being knocked out by this isnt a low showing". Ultraman moving the moon not too long ago was a high showinG to you all. It was mentioned consistently. Wrecking moons are nothing in Z. Its child's play. The lowest of characters can do it. By the time DBS rolled around, they were calling planet busting weak, characters in the show and was casually one handing people that is a universal threat. Tanking black holes while at near death, no energy. Punching through dimensions, etc, etc...

Let's put it like this, Superman power would register on scouters whereas Saiyan Saga Vegeta power level blows them up. You all was hyped at Superman SUPPOSEDLY surviving a planets destruction. Frieza was near death, cut in half, had no energy whatsoever, face chopped up and he withstood a planet twice the size of Earth blowing up on him. Anyways, Goku kamehameha, the shockwaves from it would melt both Superman and Darkseid at the same time. Heat vision does not compare to what the Z fighters can generate.



lol, you think Heralds are impressive compared to Superman.

how... 1992 ,lol.

Post Crisis Byrne Superman -- i.e. a Superman at a tiny fraction of his later, and certainly his current levels-- was withstanding Pre-Crisis level Kryptonian all out kill attacks in the 80s, kid.



Any Z-Fighter pre-Buu saga gets evaporated by that level of power.

..and I think you forgot about the fact that the DB universe is a laughably puny excuse for a universe. It's even far smaller than Marvel puny small god realm IIRC.

FFS he's back

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
FFS he's back

I got you DS

Originally posted by MrMind
Master Roshi destroyed the moon with hameha at PL of 139

Cell destroyed the solar system couple decades ago. I don't even wanna get into the power level of DBS since that would be so unfair to Superman

Statements are just as good as feats when dragon ball concerned, that's generally how dragon ball works. Because most supporting casts don't have that many appearances and their feats need scaling

The feat is also valid because

1. it's backed by official guides

2. DB Kai official Japanese TOEI site states he did have power to destroy the entire solar system with his Kamehameha. Kai is the closest to source material


I mean you guys have no trouble taking statements as feats when superman is concerned.

off topic:
I get that Power Level is bullshit
but in this case it makes sense
we know PL of 150 can destroy the moon
we know frieza first form with PL of 530 000 (less than 1 percent of his final form) can easily destroy planet vegeta (way bigger planet than earth)
We know that Perfect Cell is at least hundred of thousands time more powerful than first form Frieza

You'd be insane to think Cell cannot destroy solar system

..So where did he destroy a solar system, again..?

I missed that reference.

Originally posted by panthergod
lol, you think Heralds are impressive compared to Superman.

how... 1992 ,lol.

Post Crisis Byrne Superman -- i.e. a Superman at a tiny fraction of his later, and certainly his current levels-- was withstanding Pre-Crisis level Kryptonian all out kill attacks in the 80s, kid.



Any Z-Fighter pre-Buu saga gets evaporated by that level of power.

..and I think you forgot about the fact that the DB universe is a laughably puny excuse for a universe. It's even far smaller than Marvel puny small god realm IIRC.

Lol... Heralds have held their own against Superman. Lol... yes, they are impressive to Superman. Superman was SHOCKED at the amount of power Billy had stored inside of him. He even admits that Bizarro is stronger than him and Bizzaro is a Herald.

Post Crisis Byrne Superman. Sigh. Let's not go there. I feel confident those Krypronians were operating at your average kryptonian levels. What's the issue number.

Nope, Black hair Goku during Saiyan Saga would rule DC Earth. Frieza during the Saiyan saga split a planet in half with two fingers while not even using a percentage of his power. Imagine if Superman would have split Earth in half with an energy attack, boo boo would fly all across your house due to excitement.

Wait a minute, you still believe DBZ universe is small?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


.. So you CANT point to Cell destroying a solar system, or can you..?

Let's see the feat, then.

Originally posted by panthergod
..So where did he destroy a solar system, again..?

I missed that reference.

Go to the previous page, please. Stilt kindly posted it there for you.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... Heralds have held their own against Superman.

Chi Chi has held her own against Goku.


None of those characters are Heralds. Captain Marvel access the power of a Skyfather. Superman while weakened is literally several times power powerful than Billy, on panel lmaoo. The fact that you even mention him is a joke. Bizzaro is Superman's inferior clone who doesn't regulate his power with his mind, where Clark supresses his power. Superman has mudstomped Bizzarro, stop it.



Byrne Run. Phantom Zone Saga. this is basic stuff here. and 'average Kryptonian' is far above top tier, and they had all Pre-Crisis showings in relative power.




Superman evaporates Earth 2 with the shockwaves of his strikes with an equal... while weakened.

He shatters planets while near powerless now.

WTF are you talking about..?


Maybe things have changed, not that i could care less.

Superman's inferiors hold 52 universes.

The pocket universe Kryptonians were all operating at pre crisis power levels. Multiple feats prove this, like Superboy casually breaking the time barrier, pre crisis style.

Replacing pre crisis Superboy was the entire point of Time Trapper creating it.

Originally posted by carver9
Go to the previous page, please. Stilt kindly posted it there for you.

And see my scans on the last page. I just proved how insanely powerful Supermans hv is, operating on a universal+ level.




Speaking of which, there's some interesting scans in Ownage you should see. Prime Superman was just established as being a potential multiverse buster.

Originally posted by carver9
Go to the previous page, please. Stilt kindly posted it there for you.

No he didn't.

I have yet to see Cell destroying a solar system. Not saying that it didn't happen, but no one has shown it.

Originally posted by panthergod
No he didn't.

I have yet to see Cell destroying a solar system. Not saying that it didn't happen, but no one has shown it.

It's a CANON BIO that states Cell attack had enough power to blow away a solar system. Dont argue with us in regards to FACTS, dispute the person that made the CANON bio.

no one has said Cell destroyed a solar system

We said Cell has the power to destroy a solar system (evidences posted)

There's a difference

Originally posted by cdtm
And see my scans on the last page. I just proved how insanely powerful Supermans hv is, operating on a universal+ level.




Speaking of which, there's some interesting scans in Ownage you should see. Prime Superman was just established as being a potential multiverse buster.



I've read all of the JLA and Superman comics recently. That's all I am going to say about this.

Originally posted by carver9
It's a CANON BIO that states Cell attack had enough power to blow away a solar system. Dont argue with us in regards to FACTS, dispute the person that made the CANON bio.

So He hasn't destroyed a solar system.

Period.

Good to know.

Originally posted by MrMind
no one has said Cell destroyed a solar system

We said Cell has the power to destroy a solar system (evidences posted)

There's a difference

A weakened Superman tanks solar system destroying attacks.

Pre DoS he was withstanding nova level attacks.

So... Yeah.

Originally posted by panthergod
Chi Chi has held her own against Goku.


None of those characters are Heralds. Captain Marvel access the power of a Skyfather. Superman while weakened is literally several times power powerful than Billy, on panel lmaoo. The fact that you even mention him is a joke. Bizzaro is Superman's inferior clone who doesn't regulate his power with his mind, where Clark supresses his power. Superman has mudstomped Bizzarro, stop it.



Byrne Run. Phantom Zone Saga. this is basic stuff here. and 'average Kryptonian' is far above top tier, and they had all Pre-Crisis showings in relative power.




Superman evaporates Earth 2 with the shockwaves of his strikes with an equal... while weakened.

He shatters planets while near powerless now.

WTF are you talking about..?


Maybe things have changed, not that i could care less.

Superman's inferiors hold 52 universes.



When did Chi Chi held her own?

Sigh... so Cap is a sky father? Again, Superman was amazed at Captain Marvel power and in the same comic said they were equals.

Superman ADMITTED Bizarro is stronger than him.

Of course you would think kryptonians are above Herald level? Let me guess, q GL is above Herald level as well huh since one did curb Zod?

Show me a planet being destroyed by Superman. I dont want to see a statement, I want to the the destruction of said planet.

... inferiors holding 2 universes? Why am I debating with you? Let me guess, Damage is universal as well. The same guy that held Superman in place with nothing but brute strength.

Originally posted by panthergod
A weakened Superman tanks solar system destroying attacks.

Pre DoS he was withstanding nova level attacks.

So... Yeah.

Originally posted by carver9
It's a CANON BIO that states Cell attack had enough power to blow away a solar system. Dont argue with us in regards to FACTS, dispute the person that made the CANON bio.

Bios aren't admissible.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Bios aren't admissible.

Marvel and DC BIOS aren't usable. DB Bios are canon. This is why anime and comics should not ever be discussed in the same forum. The bio for Anime holds weight here. Sorry.

Originally posted by panthergod
A weakened Superman tanks solar system destroying attacks.

Pre DoS he was withstanding nova level attacks.

So... Yeah.

Cool so he scaled a little above Cell and SSJ2 Gohan

which means he doesn't even register current Goku

Originally posted by carver9
When did Chi Chi held her own?
Chi doesn't beat up Goku all the time..?

Hey, if you're going to use disingenuous comparisons so can I.


He tapps into a Skyfather's power, among others. Superman being amazed at his power means nothing, he had no clue of his own innate power--and oh yeah ,that was a WEAKENED Superman at the time.


.. due to Bizzarro not regulating his power via his damaged mind. He also under the same writer thought Supergirl was more powerful due to the same reason. Nothing I'm saying is up for dispute or debate. read comics or stop discussing this character, you've been doing this for years, pay attention already or stop trolling.



You're confused and don't even know what is being argued at this point.

GL Hal Jordan would overpower every Herald at once at this point, yes.




He literally just shattered a planet while near powerless this week.

Where the f*ck have you been, child?


This isn't a debate. I debate my peers. I'm teaching you, child.




He's definitely far beyond Any Z-Fighter physically by relative showings, that's for sure.

Originally posted by MrMind
Cool so he scaled a little above Cell and SSJ2 Gohan

which means he doesn't even register current Goku


pssst.. That's Pre-DoS. No where near Post Mongul training, who is well below Post IC/Pre Flashpoint.


Superman's power scaling is every bit as impressive as the Z-fighters, albeit with more inconsistent low end portrayals, all of which are explained by the psionic/dynamic factor(Not up for debate or dispute at this point), as Byrne intended.

Originally posted by carver9
Marvel and DC BIOS aren't usable. DB Bios are canon. This is why anime and comics should not ever be discussed in the same forum. The bio for Anime holds weight here. Sorry.

Which forum are we in? Right now, which section is this in, the comics or the anime section? Simple question.

So we shouldn't discuss them here. Thanks. That saves us all reading your stupidity.

Originally posted by panthergod
pssst.. That's Pre-DoS. No where near Post Mongul training, who is well below Post IC/Pre Flashpoint.


Superman's power scaling is every bit as impressive as the Z-fighters, albeit with more inconsistent low end portrayals, all of which are explained by the psionic/dynamic factor(Not up for debate or dispute at this point), as Byrne intended.

DBS Goku and Vegeta are far beyond their past DBZ selves, by tens of thousands at least