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Classic Dark Phoenix as portrayed in the original Claremont/Byrne era has somehow returned to earth. Magik will unleash all of her powers to destroy her, no holding back - she has no intention of attempting to save Jean in this scenario. The battle begins at the X-Mansion.

ilyana would need to get her to limbo to have a chance here. dp has too much power and was growing stronger all the time. in limbo all bets are off as magik has some really good feats there. still, enough to classify her as an at least galactus-level threat? not sure about that. it would be interesting to see the impact the sword would have on the force though. interesting thread, but i think dp is too much for her, maybe even in limbo.

Magik gets wrecked along with Hela, Pluto, Blackheart and and other hell lord. Mephisto then comes along and retcons her existence

Magik time travels and kills jeans before she takes on the PF

Dark Phoenix stomps.

Originally posted by Glorificus
Dark Phoenix stomps.

What feats does Dark Phoenix have that prevents her from being erased from the timeline?

Originally posted by leonidas
ilyana would need to get her to limbo to have a chance here. dp has too much power and was growing stronger all the time. in limbo all bets are off as magik has some really good feats there. still, enough to classify her as an at least galactus-level threat? not sure about that. it would be interesting to see the impact the sword would have on the force though. interesting thread, but i think dp is too much for her, maybe even in limbo.

Yeah, I'm thinking Limbo would be a smart move if she can actually get DP there. The effect of the sword would be interesting though.

Magik isn't holding back, so time travel is an option and we're limited to one era of Phoenix here. While I doubt time travel would work, Jean didn't have any time feats during that time, so can't really argue against it I guess.

But, even still, that just makes it a quick draw.

What did magik do recently, am I missing something?

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
What did magik do recently, am I missing something?

What did that version of DP do that puts her above Limbo Magik?

She had a ton of implied power. Magik has been described as unbeatable, all powerful, power incarnate in Limbo, etc..obviously that's just hyperbole. Anyone above Dormy should have a chance of beating her in her realm.

Actual feats-wiping out entire time lines > eating a star, beating Dormy, the World eater, etc >beating a team of x-men and the imperial guard. Controlling every molecule of an entire dimension>than turning a tree to gold.

Also no answer to time travel. Obviously Magik would get wiped out by the PF but DP was human. She felt Colossus punches, she felt the combined attack of Raven and Xavier. In the end she got taken out by a Shi'ar canon.

Going by implied power DP wins, going by actual feats Magik wins.

Her only chance is to take the fight to limbo.

Originally posted by nwg202
What did that version of DP do that puts her above Limbo Magik?

She had a ton of implied power. Magik has been described as unbeatable, all powerful, power incarnate in Limbo, etc..obviously that's just hyperbole. Anyone above Dormy should have a chance of beating her in her realm.

Actual feats-wiping out entire time lines > eating a star, beating Dormy, the World eater, etc >beating a team of x-men and the imperial guard. Controlling every molecule of an entire dimension>than turning a tree to gold.

Also no answer to time travel. Obviously Magik would get wiped out by the PF but DP was human. She felt Colossus punches, she felt the combined attack of Raven and Xavier. In the end she got taken out by a Shi'ar canon.

Going by implied power DP wins, going by actual feats Magik wins. I was thinking along similar lines when I did this thread. Back when Dark Phoenix appeared she was supposed to be this terrifying, potentially world-ending threat for the X-Men, who could possibly only be defeated if Jean herself held it back, but she still had some vulnerabilities.

These days with characters like Legion, Magik, and others running around with such ridiculous powers the landscape has changed. It really wouldn't surprise me if in a fight Magik did drag DP off and defeat her in Limbo.

Even using only that era for DP, it's still just a quick draw. And Magik's cast speed for time travel has been kinda slow recently...


On a side note, Jean de-powered herself when she was pew-pewed by the Shi'ar laser.

Originally posted by basilisk
I was thinking along similar lines when I did this thread. Back when Dark Phoenix appeared she was supposed to be this terrifying, potentially world-ending threat for the X-Men, who could possibly only be defeated if Jean herself held it back, but she still had some vulnerabilities.

These days with characters like Legion, Magik, and others running around with such ridiculous powers the landscape has changed. It really wouldn't surprise me if in a fight Magik did drag DP off and defeat her in Limbo.

Yep. If DP was written now pretty sure she'd be written above Magik. But going through feats of that DP?

Really don't see anything that she did that was that overwhelming. Aside from implied power.

Dormy begging Magik for his life
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3478480-3150796-dormammu.jpg

Beating the World-Eater who destroyed thousands of dimensions and worlds. Including Marvel earth. It destroyed all the humans and mutants in the future.
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5737799-screen+shot+2017-03-09+at+10.44.34+am.png
https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5561624-screen+shot+2016-11-30+at+4.47.01+pm.png
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5561625-screen+shot+2016-11-30+at+4.53.01+pm.png

demons turning phoenix rachel (someone w/ better feats) into a puppet
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/4724736-plot-1.png
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5166109-screen+shot+2016-04-22+at+5.45.07+pm.png

Her demon horde destroying the entire time stream
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5680036-screen+shot+2017-02-02+at+10.05.14+am.png
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5680035-screen+shot+2017-02-02+at+10.02.31+am.png

Hell Lords commenting on her power
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3463744-thecounciljn5.jpg

Classic Strange lacks the power needs her power and time manip abilities to turn time back on itself
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3055375-xm8+-+copy.jpg

i agree it was a lot of implied power, but whenever she was tested dp seemed able to live up to that potential. i realize it's non canon but an example was when she seemed to be portrayed above darkseid in that x-men/titans issue. i mean was was still growing in power, but the ability to effortlessly absorb stars, open stargates instantly.... power is depicted differently nowadays, but these feats are still pretty impressive today. be interesting to see what she was capable of absorbing. not even sure magik could keep her in limbo if jean wanted to leave.

this is tough. tbh i wouldn't be surprised if magik beat dp in hell, but i think i'd still take dp. outside hell i don't see magik having much chance. so much would have to do with how their powers interacted with each other.

Originally posted by Glorificus
Dark Phoenix stomps.

Does not apply to Dark Phoenix but Rachel can erect a temporal field that protects her from space/time manipulation.

And there is the whole Phoenix being of time and space.
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/8690481_IronAge_3_Oroboros_CPS_049.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/8690483_IronAge_3_Oroboros_CPS_050.jpg

Originally posted by nwg202
Yep. If DP was written now pretty sure she'd be written above Magik. But going through feats of that DP?

Really don't see anything that she did that was that overwhelming. Aside from implied power.

Dormy begging Magik for his life
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3478480-3150796-dormammu.jpg

Beating the World-Eater who destroyed thousands of dimensions and worlds. Including Marvel earth. It destroyed all the humans and mutants in the future.
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5737799-screen+shot+2017-03-09+at+10.44.34+am.png
https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5561624-screen+shot+2016-11-30+at+4.47.01+pm.png
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5561625-screen+shot+2016-11-30+at+4.53.01+pm.png

demons turning phoenix rachel (someone w/ better feats) into a puppet
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/4724736-plot-1.png
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5166109-screen+shot+2016-04-22+at+5.45.07+pm.png

Her demon horde destroying the entire time stream
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5680036-screen+shot+2017-02-02+at+10.05.14+am.png
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5680035-screen+shot+2017-02-02+at+10.02.31+am.png

Hell Lords commenting on her power
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3463744-thecounciljn5.jpg

Classic Strange lacks the power needs her power and time manip abilities to turn time back on itself
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3055375-xm8+-+copy.jpg
There HAS to be context behind the Dormammu scan. I refuse to believe even Marvel is stupid enough to treat him that way if he was at full power (or close to it) when that scene took place.

Regarding the Rachel/PF scan, keep in mind Goblin Queen (who had access to the PF via her link to Jean) blasted the sh|t out of Rachel (while Rachel was trying to engage her in conversation thinking she was her mother) and that's what caused her to lose control and careen into the demon building :
https://s13.postimg.org/e96fafcir/Excalibur6_10.jpg

The point of the Rachel scan is that Limbo's magic can affect her.
Whole scan of what happened
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5739349-screen+shot+2017-03-10+at+8.24.24+am.png
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5739347-screen+shot+2017-03-10+at+8.24.00+am.png
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5739350-screen+shot+2017-03-10+at+8.24.11+am.png

Her demon hordes. Whom she controls.
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5139780-screen+shot+2016-04-08+at+11.45.58+am.png

In Limbo Magik makes the rules and controls everything
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/108342/5352030-screen+shot+2016-07-31+at+10.42.44+pm.png
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3055463-nm30_limbo.jpg
https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/4840678-screen+shot+2015-10-07+at+6.26.38+pm.png

Actually Magik fought Dormy 2x.

This is the first fight. He wants to take over Limbo. He yanks her in to her realm. He's expecting a fight, she isn't. He tries to kill her but instead she hulks out into Darkchilde and he gets stomped.

https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3079713-3005241-uncanny%2Bx-men%2Bv3%2B005-005.jpg
https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3079714-3005242-uncanny%2Bx-men%2Bv3%2B005-006.jpg
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3079715-3005243-uncanny%2Bx-men%2Bv3%2B005-007.jpg
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3079716-3005244-uncanny%2Bx-men%2Bv3%2B005-008.jpg
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3079717-3005245-uncanny%2Bx-men%2Bv3%2B005-009.jpg
https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/3079712-3005246-uncanny%2Bx-men%2Bv3%2B005-010.jpg

He runs away vowing to prep for her and return. He comes back is able to take control of Magik. She absorbs all of Limbo into herself and then that scene with Dormy begging happens. So he preps for her and still gets beaten.

Its been an ongoing theme throughout her career when she gets serious she brings stuff to Limbo so she can take out big time threats
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/108342/3463642-3030406-legion04%2B%282%29.jpg

DIdnt she get whooped by Blackwidow? XD

Originally posted by Terryc250
DIdnt she get whooped by Blackwidow? XD

Hehe...she was just playing around.

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108342/5740171-screen+shot+2017-03-10+at+7.58.11+pm.png

Magik is without a doubt one of the shittiest characters ever conceived.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Magik is without a doubt one of the shittiest characters ever conceived. Can't disagree with that...

...but still thought it would be an interesting fight, especially the dragging DP into Limbo part and whether it would work. In the end most opinions came down to that.

Originally posted by basilisk
Can't disagree with that...


Just curious...why so?

Originally posted by nwg202
Just curious...why so? I guess I feel like she doesn't belong running around with the X-Men. She's basically a Hell Lord and has the most ridiculous array of ever-increasing powers and weapons imaginable, most of which don't seem to have any limits, and including crazy time travel stuff. She doesn't really have any interesting narrative or purpose other than generating feats.

If she was just another Hell Lord, fine I guess. But she's a strange character for an X-Team when she could probably beat anyone they fight on her own. I don't really hate the character but story wise she is kind of problematic.

Originally posted by basilisk
I guess I feel like she doesn't belong running around with the X-Men. She's basically a Hell Lord and has the most ridiculous array of ever-increasing powers and weapons imaginable, most of which don't seem to have any limits, and including crazy time travel stuff. She doesn't really have any interesting narrative or purpose other than generating feats.

If she was just another Hell Lord, fine I guess. But she's a strange character for an X-Team when she could probably beat anyone they fight on her own. I don't really hate the character but story wise she is kind of problematic.

As a fan, I do have to agree that she's out of place in a lot of typical x-men stories. I've always wished she got her own solo or joined a cosmic type x-men team.

I like Magik. But then again, I do like characters such as One Punch Man and Dr. Manhattan as well. It doesn't matter to me if their powers far exceed those of the people around them, as long as it leads to cool and fun events.

And Magik is not the only mega-powerful character that's been around the X-Men. Rachel Summers (Phoenix), Jean Grey (Phoenix), Nate Grey (Shaman / X-Man), David Haller (Legion), and so on, can certainly be classified as such as well.

Yeah, she would be much better suited alongside a character like Strange and his ilk. Heck, I would actually read a Magik/Strange team-up series.

Magik isn't the greatest character, but I don't totally blame her. It ultimately comes down to the writers. Jean, at her height, is well above her teammates, but Morrison still wrote her really well. The problem is, the X-titles usually get stuck with bad writers, or good writers who don't "get" the X-Men. It doesn't matter if you're street level or abstract. Shit writing is shit writing.

General advice though, they gotta stop treating Magik like a generic Edgelord. She comes off as some pre-teen's idea of cool and tortured, rather than a believable character.