Outlander vs. Darth Plagueis

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carthage
Force sabers all out

Beniboybling
Plagueis eviscerates him.

Geistalt
Valkorion >
Plagueis >
Outlander >
Vaylin

cs_zoltan
Plagueis. Close fight.

Close to the shitlander's grave.

AncientPower
Outlander > Vaylin, who has enough power to reduce the Sanctum and the mountain beneath it to 'ash' from orbit, yeah that's definitely reaching Plagueis tier, if not a better feat of power than anything Plagueis has without Sidious crutching.

Geistalt
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
EVURY1 FROM TOR ERA IS SHIT except for Valkorion.

darthbane77
Originally posted by AncientPower
Outlander > Vaylin, who has enough power to reduce the Sanctum and the mountain beneath it to 'ash' from orbit, yeah that's definitely reaching Plagueis tier, if not a better feat of power than anything Plagueis has without Sidious crutching. How is the Outlander superior to Vaylin? Vaylin, quite obviously, was powerful enough to decimate anybody in KOTET alone. The Outlander was no match for her without the aid of both Senya and Arcann.

darthbane77
Plagueis, but the Outlander provides a decent fight.

SunRazer
The Outlander joins Venamis, King Veruna and the Maladian assassins.

AncientPower
Originally posted by darthbane77
How is the Outlander superior to Vaylin? Vaylin, quite obviously, was powerful enough to decimate anybody in KOTET alone. The Outlander was no match for her without the aid of both Senya and Arcann.

The Outlander is confirmed to be Valkorion's most powerful opponent. The Outlander also tanks Unchained Vaylin's Maelstrom and runs her through.

chingchangwalla
Plagueis stomps

Trocity
Plagueis, not close.

darthbane77
Originally posted by AncientPower
The Outlander is confirmed to be Valkorion's most powerful opponent. The Outlander also tanks Unchained Vaylin's Maelstrom and runs her through. "Valkorion's most powerful opponents" is an empty accolade when his feats are inferior to those of people like Revan, the only other person that actually fought the Emperor. And sure, he managed to push through Vaylin's Malestrom, barely; and before that, Vaylin was contending with the 'lander, Senya, and Arcann at once. That alone establishes her as superior to any of the other three.

Geistalt
Originally posted by darthbane77
"Valkorion's most powerful opponents" is an empty accolade when his feats are inferior to those of people like Revan, the only other person that actually fought the Emperor. And sure, he managed to push through Vaylin's Malestrom, barely; and before that, Vaylin was contending with the 'lander, Senya, and Arcann at once. That alone establishes her as superior to any of the other three. lolwut?

Someone doesn't appear to remember what actually happened.

What really happened is that Arcann and Senya got ragdolled. After fighting 3 Horizon Guards and 5 Knights with the Outlander's help.

Ursumeles
Add Vaylin to 'lander, and Plagueis still wins.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Geistalt
lolwut?

Someone doesn't appear to remember what actually happened.

What really happened is that Arcann and Senya got ragdolled. After fighting 3 Horizon Guards and 5 Knights with the Outlander's help.
uh they fought vaylin too

S_W_LeGenD
Can go either way.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Plagueis stomps
laughing out loud

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Trocity
Plagueis, not close.
No.

MythLord
Plagueis murks.

Nephthys
Good fight imo.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Outlander > Vaylin, who has enough power to reduce the Sanctum and the mountain beneath it to 'ash' from orbit, yeah that's definitely reaching Plagueis tier, if not a better feat of power than anything Plagueis has without Sidious crutching.

Don't forget that Chained!Vaylin tanked a hyperdrive explosion. Thats a pretty monstrous feat.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by darthbane77
"Valkorion's most powerful opponents" is an empty accolade when his feats are inferior to those of people like Revan, the only other person that actually fought the Emperor. And sure, he managed to push through Vaylin's Malestrom, barely; and before that, Vaylin was contending with the 'lander, Senya, and Arcann at once. That alone establishes her as superior to any of the other three.
None of that makes any sense.

That accolade is recent (and official) and according to it, the Outlander > Revan. It sets the precedent to rank Arcann, Thexan, Vaylin and Valkorion higher than some members here would assume and accolades of Darth Plagueis, Palpatine and Yoda do not apply to these characters because none of them is a Jedi or Sith.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by MythLord
Plagueis murks.
laughing out loud

darthbane77
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
None of that makes any sense.

That accolade is recent (and official) and according to it, the Outlander > Revan. It sets the precedent to rank Arcann, Thexan, Vaylin and Valkorion higher than some members here would assume and accolades of Darth Plagueis, Palpatine and Yoda do not apply to these characters because none of them is a Jedi or Sith.

Yes, the quote is recent, but it's contradicted by the Outlander's lack of feats suggesting that he's more powerful than Revan. By feats, which are superior to accolades in a ranking, Revan>the Outlander. There's also the matter that Revan never technically faced Valkorion, only Vitiate. So, depending on how one interprets the quote, it COULD be accurate, but in neither case is the Outlander actually more powerful than Revan.

I fail to see how Vaylin being able to contend with the trio as well as she did doesn't put her above every individual member of that same trio.

MythLord
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
laughing out loud

My dog can come up with a better response than that.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Nephthys
Don't forget that Chained!Vaylin tanked a hyperdrive explosion. Thats a pretty monstrous feat. Ah yes, well up there with TPM Maul.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by darthbane77
"Valkorion's most powerful opponents" is an empty accolade when his feats are inferior to those of people like Revan, the only other person that actually fought the Emperor. And sure, he managed to push through Vaylin's Malestrom, barely; and before that, Vaylin was contending with the 'lander, Senya, and Arcann at once. That alone establishes her as superior to any of the other three. The accolade is made at the point of Valkorion's intial death, by which point we know he is less powerful in the Force than Arcann. So evidently its not referring to Force ability exclusively, or at all.

Azronger
Plagueis one-shots.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Can go either way. Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
laughing out loud

Beniboybling
Also, does anyone have footage of Vaylin vaporising a mountain? Sounds fun.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by MythLord
My dog can come up with a better response than that.
erm

MythLord
That too.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by darthbane77
Yes, the quote is recent, but it's contradicted by the Outlander's lack of feats suggesting that he's more powerful than Revan. By feats, which are superior to accolades in a ranking, Revan>the Outlander. There's also the matter that Revan never technically faced Valkorion, only Vitiate. So, depending on how one interprets the quote, it COULD be accurate, but in neither case is the Outlander actually more powerful than Revan.

I fail to see how Vaylin being able to contend with the trio as well as she did doesn't put her above every individual member of that same trio.
I don't think that that accolade is time-specific. It seems to be a holistic reference to the Outlander. At some point, the Outlander surpassed Revan.

Revan was implied to be no match for Vitiate even in the Shadow of Revan expansion FYI.

Vaylin has some fantastic showings and the Outlander was able to contend with her in spite of not having feats like her.

Please keep in mind that the Outlander doesn't have predefined traits so he doesn't gets much cut-scene style action sequences like other characters. However, he is immensely strong.

S_W_LeGenD
@Ursumeles

Your knowledge is terrible and so are your assumptions. Better not talk about characters you know nothing about.

darthbane77
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I don't think that that accolade is time-specific. It seems to be a holistic reference to the Outlander. At some point, the Outlander surpassed Revan.

Revan was implied to be no match for Vitiate even in the Shadow of Revan expansion FYI.

Vaylin has some fantastic showings and the Outlander was able to contend with her in spite of not having feats like her.

Please keep in mind that the Outlander doesn't have predefined traits so he doesn't gets much cut-scene style action sequences like other characters. However, he is immensely strong.

A single, vague, accolade does not overwrite the multitude of feats placing Revan above the Outlander.

Revan was implied to be no match for Vitiate by people who had never experienced Vitiate's full strength. Revan was able to contend with Vitiate in their fight, and solidly at that when all the circumstances of the fight are considered. Couple that with the quotes stating that Revan came close to killing Vitiate, and you have a case implying that Revan was more of a match for Vitiate than most would believe. Those feats stand head and shoulders above the opinions of people who have never experienced Vitiate's full potency.

He managed to contend with her with the help of Arcann and Senya. Had the 'lander been alone in that fight, you would have a case to make. As it stands, you don't.

I'm not saying the 'lander isn't incredibly powerful, I have him placed somewhat solidly over ROTJ Vader based on his feats. But he has nothing to suggest superiority to Revan.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@Ursumeles

Yes?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Your knowledge is terrible

Okay?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
and so are your assumptions.

Because I don't think that...
...Valkorion > Luke / Sidious
...Arcann > Malgus
...Valkorion is superior to the Ones?
...that Revan is Yoda-tier?
...Senya > Maul
...the Outlander splits with the most powerful Sith Lord, bar Sidious himself?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Better not talk about characters you know nothing about.

If we should stop talk about things we know nothing about, you should stop talkimg about PT chars. And NJO. Actually, you should stop talking about Star Wars at all.

Anyway, any reason you chose me, except for Beni, Wollf or any other guys that said Plagueis wins easily?

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@Ursumeles

Your knowledge is terrible and so are your assumptions. Better not talk about characters you know nothing about. #triggered

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Anyway, any reason you chose me, except for Beni, Wollf or any other guys that said Plagueis wins easily?

He hates gais.

Geistalt
Originally posted by darthbane77
He managed to contend with her with the help of Arcann and Senya. Had the 'lander been alone in that fight, you would have a case to make. As it stands, you don't.

I'm not saying the 'lander isn't incredibly powerful, I have him placed somewhat solidly over ROTJ Vader based on his feats. But he has nothing to suggest superiority to Revan. Fair enough. But keep in mind that Vaylin also relied on external help. And that the Outlander was ultimately unaffected by all the TK that she could bring to bear.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yes?

Okay?

Because I don't think that...
...Valkorion > Luke / Sidious
...Arcann > Malgus
...Valkorion is superior to the Ones?
...that Revan is Yoda-tier?
...Senya > Maul
...the Outlander splits with the most powerful Sith Lord, bar Sidious himself?
Seems like you triggered.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
If we should stop talk about things we know nothing about, you should stop talkimg about PT chars. And NJO. Actually, you should stop talking about Star Wars at all.
Balanced views would be good?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Anyway, any reason you chose me, except for Beni, Wollf or any other guys that said Plagueis wins easily?
I respond to them from time to time. Nothing personal here.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Seems like you triggered.

No, not really.
You called me out, lmao.


Yes? What has that to do with anything.

That doesn't answers my question erm

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The accolade is made at the point of Valkorion's intial death, by which point we know he is less powerful in the Force than Arcann. So evidently its not referring to Force ability exclusively, or at all.
and vaylin isn't an enemy of valk

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The accolade is made at the point of Valkorion's intial death, by which point we know he is less powerful in the Force than Arcann. So evidently its not referring to Force ability exclusively, or at all.
That's obvious given there's four classes that don't even use the Force. thumb up

NewGuy01
Yeah, but the Knight is obviously the canon class, so...

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by darthbane77
A single, vague, accolade does not overwrite the multitude of feats placing Revan above the Outlander.
My friend,

I am not among those members who ignore greater realities and consider a single accolade in an outdated source as gospel.

The accolade in question here is from BioWare (not a secondary source) and is a new revelation (earlier developments covered). It reveals where the Outlander stands in the grand scheme of things. And it does not seems to be time-specific.

We have no choice but to believe that the Outlander became more powerful than Revan at some point. And this does not seems to be far-fetched assumption because the Outlander could handle any foe barring Valkorion since Chapter 12 of Knights of the Fallen Empire.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Revan was implied to be no match for Vitiate by people who had never experienced Vitiate's full strength. Revan was able to contend with Vitiate in their fight, and solidly at that when all the circumstances of the fight are considered. Couple that with the quotes stating that Revan came close to killing Vitiate, and you have a case implying that Revan was more of a match for Vitiate than most would believe. Those feats stand head and shoulders above the opinions of people who have never experienced Vitiate's full potency.
Darth Marr simply stated that Vitiate would eliminate Revan and proceed to consume others as well. The whole point of Shadow of Revan expansion is that Revan was committing a huge blunder by awakening Vitiate.

Don't get me wrong! Revan is immensely powerful and I rank him really high. However, if the Outlander is capable of defeating Vaylin, he is most likely stronger than Revan.

Originally posted by darthbane77
He managed to contend with her with the help of Arcann and Senya. Had the 'lander been alone in that fight, you would have a case to make. As it stands, you don't.

I'm not saying the 'lander isn't incredibly powerful, I have him placed somewhat solidly over ROTJ Vader based on his feats. But he has nothing to suggest superiority to Revan.
When Vaylin unleashed the Force Maelstrom, she swiftly overwhelmed Senya and Arcann with it but the Outlander was able to withstand her power and managed to impale her right through it. That is sufficient proof.

Beniboybling
Smuggler > Revan confirmed. And I guess I'm okay with that. smile

Azronger
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Smuggler > Revan confirmed. And I guess I'm okay with that. smile

But you're apparently not okay with Dooku > Revan uhuh

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Han Solo >Sidious>Yoda>Smuggler > Revan confirmed. And I guess I'm okay with that. smile

Tondemonai
Plagueis, very close fight. Only reason I say that is HoTlander's hobby is tanking attacks from vastly superior Force users (though he would get overwhelmed if Plagueis maintained a long enough assault)

darthbane77
Originally posted by Geistalt
Fair enough. But keep in mind that Vaylin also relied on external help. And that the Outlander was ultimately unaffected by all the TK that she could bring to bear. True, very true. Which is why I rank the 'lander so high (not many characters I rank higher than Vader in the grand scheme of things.) I just don't hold him as highly as people on the same level as Revan, Exar Kun, etc.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Tondemonai
Plagueis, very close fight. Only reason I say that is HoTlander's hobby is tanking attacks from vastly superior Force users (though he would get overwhelmed if Plagueis maintained a long enough assault)

Not seeing how the Outlander tanking hits would make it any closer, just more prolonged. But then again, I don't see why Plagueis wouldn't just do an Arcann and TK the Outlander before impaling them on his blade. That should end the fight rather quickly. smile

darthbane77
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My friend,

I am not among those members who ignore greater realities and consider a single accolade in an outdated source as gospel.

The accolade in question here is from BioWare (not a secondary source) and is a new revelation (earlier developments covered). It reveals where the Outlander stands in the grand scheme of things. And it does not seems to be time-specific.

We have no choice but to believe that the Outlander became more powerful than Revan at some point. And this does not seems to be far-fetched assumption because the Outlander could handle any foe barring Valkorion since Chapter 12 of Knights of the Fallen Empire.


Darth Marr simply stated that Vitiate would eliminate Revan and proceed to consume others as well. The whole point of Shadow of Revan expansion is that Revan was committing a huge blunder by awakening Vitiate.

Don't get me wrong! Revan is immensely powerful and I rank him really high. However, if the Outlander is capable of defeating Vaylin, he is most likely stronger than Revan.


When Vaylin unleashed the Force Maelstrom, she swiftly overwhelmed Senya and Arcann with it but the Outlander was able to withstand her power and managed to impale her right through it. That is sufficient proof.

The quote also never mentions power in the Force, it could very likely be referring to political/military power, which would be accurate because nobody resisted Valkorion on a military front before. That would also make the most sense, given that the only thing even slightly indicating Outlander>Revan, is that quote, nothing else. As such, I defer to the larger quantity of feats displayed by Revan, some of which have more power behind them than anything the 'lander has ever achieved. As I said before, feats>accolades, and the 'lander has no feats to suggest superiority to Revan. Now, I don't go strictly by feats, accolades must be considered as well, but the accolade in question is contradicted by feats. So, as a result of that, the quote is either moot and can be discounted, or (more likely) it simply doesn't mean what you think it means.

That doesn't indicate superiority to Revan. That indicates superiority to the people the 'lander fought in KOTET (barring Valkorion obviously.) So the logic you're using there doesn't work, as none of the people the 'lander faced in KOTET are as powerful as Revan (again barring Valkorion.)

And I agree with that assessment, to an extent. The concept of calling Vitiate back being a mistake on Revan's part, I agree with. The statements made by Marr, and others, are simply their opinions however. Opinions that aren't really backed by anything, save for the stories and hype the Empire has put behind Vitiate. The fact that Revan, even though he lost, legitimately challenged Vitiate, by itself puts Revan beyond any characters seen in KOTET, with the exception of Valkorion himself. But a quote that may or may not mean something, and the opinions of people who never really saw Vitiate's full power, are not sufficient evidence to make the claim that the Outlander is superior to Revan. That argument is flimsy at best.

And I might agree, if Vaylin was, herself, as powerful or more powerful than Revan; but she isn't.

Which is immensely impressive. But not as impressive as ragdolling several members of either strike team, and nearly matching both teams in combat. Along with Revan Reborn being able to contend admirably with Vitiate, despite being weakened by Dromund Kaas' DS Nexus,and getting over a few years worth of torture. Both of those feats eclipse anything that Vaylin has done.

Nephthys
Pretty sure it wasn't meant in a military or political sense since the Outlander had just been captured and was in Zakuul's custody at the time.

SunRazer
It doesn't refer to Force power either, since there are several non-Force sensitive classes.

darthbane77
Originally posted by Nephthys
Pretty sure it wasn't meant in a military or political sense since the Outlander had just been captured and was in Zakuul's custody at the time. That's the only thing that makes sense though. It can't mean actual power in the Force, as Revan has superior showings, contradicting the single quote.

Nephthys
Well if the Outlander was his strongest political opponent in spite of not being a politician (except Nox, who isn't even a good one), I'd be impressed. Same goes for a guy with no military, who just got owned by Zakuul and captured and is about to be frozen in carbonite while completely helpless, being his strongest military opposition.

Combat power is the obvious explanation.

darthbane77
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well if the Outlander was his strongest political opponent in spite of not being a politician (except Nox, who isn't even a good one), I'd be impressed. Same goes for a guy with no military, who just got owned by Zakuul and captured and is about to be frozen in carbonite while completely helpless, being his strongest military opposition.

Combat power is the obvious explanation. The entire story of KOTFE and KOTET are about the Outlander assembling a military. Military power is an easy explanation. And, as I've said several times, the 'lander has no feats to suggests superiority to Revan, and accolades only go so far on their own.

Nephthys
The quote is from before that though.

Well... they did kind of..... kill Revan. :I

darthbane77
Originally posted by Nephthys
The quote is from before that though.

Well... they did kind of..... kill Revan. :I They killed him yes, but it took their combined might to do so. The combined might of all the protags/the second team>Vaylin or Arcann.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by darthbane77
The quote also never mentions power in the Force, it could very likely be referring to political/military power, which would be accurate because nobody resisted Valkorion on a military front before.
Most powerful is a subjective term; I will give you this.

Darth Plagueis's accolade, for example, promotes him as the most powerful Sith Lord in history on the basis of his specialization in the Midichlorian Manipulation talent. Context-specific in short and from a secondary source on top of that. Therefore, absolutely subjective.

We also have quotes for Palpatine that consider his political standing along-with his powers for promoting him as the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

Now, in case of the Outlander, this is what we have for him:

You are the Outlander, a veteran of the Great Galactic War and the commander of a powerful team of hand-picked allies. Choose the light side and take the heroic path to saving the galaxy or channel the dark side and take control for your personal gain. You decide who will live, who will die...and who will rule the galaxy. It is your destiny!

The Outlander is not a commander of a vast army or something like that. He has assembled a Team of talented individuals much like Revan during the events of KoTOR and Jedi Exile during the events of KoTOR II. This is what he brought to bear against Valkorion.

I don't recall the Outlander commanding a vast fleet and getting captured in a massive battle during Chapter 1 of Knights of the Fallen Empire. That would be Darth Marr but even he was cutting a swath through enemy positions at personal capacity.

So what should we make of it?

You don't have to adhere to the dictums imposed by the PT Brigade in relation to strength of characters like Revan, the Outlander, Arcann, Thexan, Senya, Vaylin and Valkorion. These guys are not Jedi and/or Sith and have established their own unique identity in the long-term. Their is a significant tension between what these guys can do and where they should stand in the grand scheme of things.

Revan's performance on Yavin IV implies strength on the level of Palpatine, if not higher, to be honest.

Anyways, the Outlander have been established as a peer of Revan in strength at minimum. It is also possible that the Outlander surpassed Revan at some point since he was strong enough to challenge Vaylin .

So we have something like this:

1. Valkorion
2. The Outlander (prime); Vaylin (unchained)
3. Revan (Shadow of Revan)
4. Arcann; Revan (Reborn)
5. Thexan
6. Senya; Lana Beniko

Originally posted by darthbane77
That would also make the most sense, given that the only thing even slightly indicating Outlander>Revan, is that quote, nothing else. As such, I defer to the larger quantity of feats displayed by Revan, some of which have more power behind them than anything the 'lander has ever achieved. As I said before, feats>accolades, and the 'lander has no feats to suggest superiority to Revan. Now, I don't go strictly by feats, accolades must be considered as well, but the accolade in question is contradicted by feats. So, as a result of that, the quote is either moot and can be discounted, or (more likely) it simply doesn't mean what you think it means.

That doesn't indicate superiority to Revan. That indicates superiority to the people the 'lander fought in KOTET (barring Valkorion obviously.) So the logic you're using there doesn't work, as none of the people the 'lander faced in KOTET are as powerful as Revan (again barring Valkorion.)
Vaylin says hello.

Originally posted by darthbane77
And I agree with that assessment, to an extent. The concept of calling Vitiate back being a mistake on Revan's part, I agree with. The statements made by Marr, and others, are simply their opinions however. Opinions that aren't really backed by anything, save for the stories and hype the Empire has put behind Vitiate. The fact that Revan, even though he lost, legitimately challenged Vitiate, by itself puts Revan beyond any characters seen in KOTET, with the exception of Valkorion himself. But a quote that may or may not mean something, and the opinions of people who never really saw Vitiate's full power, are not sufficient evidence to make the claim that the Outlander is superior to Revan. That argument is flimsy at best.
Darth Marr actually admitted - during a post SoR story arc - that he had underestimated Vitiate's power. So there's that.

Originally posted by darthbane77
And I might agree, if Vaylin was, herself, as powerful or more powerful than Revan; but she isn't.
Hello?

She destroyed a massive structure on Nathema with a thought from space. Perhaps more because she said that Nathema would look different after what she did to it.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Which is immensely impressive. But not as impressive as ragdolling several members of either strike team, and nearly matching both teams in combat. Along with Revan Reborn being able to contend admirably with Vitiate, despite being weakened by Dromund Kaas' DS Nexus,and getting over a few years worth of torture. Both of those feats eclipse anything that Vaylin has done.
Vaylin immobilized Senya, Arcann and others much like Revan immobilized Satele Shan, Darth Marr and others. In-fact, Vaylin's Force Storm was ripping the entire setting apart but the Outlander was able to impale her in time.

And do not forget that Vitiate became more powerful with passage of time. Valkorion is his strongest incarnation and a non-Sith at that.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan's performance on Yavin IV implies strength on the level of Palpatine, if not higher, to be honest.

SunRazer
Probably the most overblown feat in the mythos (at least in recent times).

Beniboybling
Member S_W_LeGenD is a moron. sad

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Member S_W_LeGenD is a moron. sad
Right.

Show me a single example of Palpatine dominating a group of Galaxy's most powerful and talented warriors with Force powers much like Revan in any setting.

That or you are a moron.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
Probably the most overblown feat in the mythos (at least in recent times).
Perhaps.

But Revan might be drawing strength from the setting?

SunRazer
He doesn't "dominate" them. He pushes them back without even hurting them. He then proceeds to lose the fight. He loses it. Get it through your head.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
He doesn't "dominate" them. He pushes them back without even hurting them. He then proceeds to lose the fight. He loses it. Get it through your head.
Yes! But that is how the fight started. We also know the outcome.

However, you don't think Revan fought well in-between?

Ursumeles
Show me Revan beating/statlemating Yoda & overpowering his Tutinamis.
Show me Revan choking out Dooku through the Galaxy.
Show me Revan draining & dominating Byss habitants.
Show me Revan destroying the Surface of planets.
etc.

SunRazer
Fighting well is not the same as dominating them. Pushing them back to inflict no injury whatsoever is not dominating them.

He contended, but he didn't dominate shit. And yes, the environment favored Revan considerably.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
Fighting well is not the same as dominating them. Pushing them back to inflict no injury whatsoever is not dominating them.

He contended, but he didn't dominate shit. And yes, the environment favored Revan considerably.
To be honest, I would expect all participants to have suffered injuries in that fight (at minimum) in a realistic medium. However, these minute details are hardly given attention in a game.

I acknowledge that setting favored Revan.

One more thing: what about Revan's spirit? Wasn't it involved?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Show me Revan beating/statlemating Yoda & overpowering his Tutinamis.
Show me Revan choking out Dooku through the Galaxy.
Show me Revan draining & dominating Byss habitants.
Show me Revan destroying the Surface of planets.
etc.
Revan wasn't a Sith and was unlikely to go to such lengths for personal gains. Darth Malgus once remarked that Revan could dominate an entire world, if he ever wanted to. Open to interpretation but it is something.

Yavin IV is the only setting where we witness Revan willing to go to extreme lengths to accomplish something. However, a large coalition of Galaxy's greatest champions assembled and stopped him in time.

What's with bringing Yoda into everything? Revan (Reborn) is arguably the most powerful Jedi in galactic history before Yoda; Revan, as of SoR, is above Revan (Reborn) but not a Jedi.

SunRazer
Well, it's not as if fights haven't ended with people clutching their sides or something before. SWTOR does have an injured animation.

Revan's spirit was involved in sheltering the group from Revan's Force attacks?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, it's not as if fights haven't ended with people clutching their sides or something before. SWTOR does have an injured animation.

Revan's spirit was involved in sheltering the group from Revan's Force attacks?
Developer's negligence in this case?

I think so? No?

Ursumeles
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan wasn't a Sith and was unlikely to go to such lengths for personal gains. Darth Malgus once remarked that Revan could dominate an entire world, if he ever wanted to. Open to interpretation but it is something.

He still hasn't done anything comparable to Byss.
Also, quote?

I know what happened, lmao.
And pushing a Strike Team is not comparable to Sidious' showings lol

You wanted to see Sidious dominating a Strike Team like the Yavin one.
I want to see Revan overpowering a Yoda-tier force user before growing more powerful.
And yeah, Revan is the strongest pre-Yoda Jedi. And? Yoda still sh!ts on him lmao.
Just like Exar Kun was the strongest pre-Vitiate Sith, and Vitty is still easily superior.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Right.

Show me a single example of Palpatine dominating a group of Galaxy's most powerful and talented warriors with Force powers much like Revan in any setting.

That or you are a moron. As Nova has pointed out, he didn't legitimately dominate anyone.

On the other hand, Sidious blitzed three of the galaxy's most powerful and talented warriors in seconds, and he'd do the same here. thumb up

MythLord
thumb up

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by SunRazer
Fighting well is not the same as dominating them. Pushing them back to inflict no injury whatsoever is not dominating them.

He contended, but he didn't dominate shit. And yes, the environment favored Revan considerably.
Revan dominated, rofl. They were ragdolled, held in stasis, and almost pummeled to death until the Outlander freed them, presumbly with the aid of Revan's spirit. Not to mention the coalition team had air support, blasting Revan via bombing runs from above via orders from Theron Shan. And the enviroment hindered Revan, since it was close quarters, not allowing him to maximize on his teleportation..

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
As Nova has pointed out, he didn't legitimately dominate anyone.

On the other hand, Sidious blitzed three of the galaxy's most powerful and talented warriors in seconds, and he'd do the same here. thumb up
It is not that simple.

1. Unsually large Strike Team comprising of some of the Galaxy's finest
2. Satele Shan's Battle Meditation
3. Revan's spirit supporting the coalition

Now imagine a coalition like that bringing its power to bear against a single foe in an open environment. We cannot fault Revan for failing against such odds.

Palpatine needs a Force Storm or something similar to overcome that coalition in single combat. I doubt he would get the opportunity to blitz some members in the same setting where Revan contended with them.

As for the confrontation you mentioned:

I have an observation. Those Jedi Masters confronted Palpatine in a seemingly cramped location. They also stood very close to each other instead of surrounding Palpatine from different angles. That gave Palpatine an opportunity to utilize his incredible speed to his advantage and cut 3 of them down in quick succession. During that moment, Mace Windu got sufficient window to sink into Vaapad. The Jedi clearly underestimated Palpatine.

Strategy makes difference, specially in a closed setting.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Ursumeles
He still hasn't done anything comparable to Byss.
Also, quote?
As I pointed out earlier, Revan was unlikely to go that far because he had been an agent of Balance and Restraint for a long time. Palpatine was Dark throughout and had every reason to explore the depths of the Dark Side for personal benefit. Revan was not into that after his reformation.

My point is about RAW POWER, not demonstrated feats.

As for the quote:

"What do we know about the Jedi Master and this space station?

"Each could dominate worlds."*

*Darth Malgus

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I know what happened, lmao.
And pushing a Strike Team is not comparable to Sidious' showings lol
Palpatine doesn't even have that in a combat situation.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
You wanted to see Sidious dominating a Strike Team like the Yavin one.
I want to see Revan overpowering a Yoda-tier force user before growing more powerful.
And yeah, Revan is the strongest pre-Yoda Jedi. And? Yoda still sh!ts on him lmao.
Just like Exar Kun was the strongest pre-Vitiate Sith, and Vitty is still easily superior.
Unfortunately, Revan versus Yoda will remain a hypothetical topic.

Yoda doesn't shits on Revan. He is stronger than Revan (Reborn) but to what extent, is open to speculation. Revan (SoR) is a leap from Revan (Reborn) by the way and not a Jedi so Yoda's accolade doesn't covers Revan (SoR).

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is not that simple.

1. Unsually large Strike Team comprising of some of the Galaxy's finest
2. Satele Shan's Battle Meditation
3. Revan's spirit supporting the coalition

Now imagine a coalition like that bringing its power to bear against a single foe in an open environment. We cannot fault Revan for failing against such odds.

Palpatine needs a Force Storm or something similar to overcome that coalition in single combat. I doubt he would get the opportunity to blitz some members in the same setting where Revan contended with them.

As for the confrontation you mentioned:

I have an observation. Those Jedi Masters confronted Palpatine in a seemingly cramped location. They also stood very close to each other instead of surrounding Palpatine from different angles. That gave Palpatine an opportunity to utilize his incredible speed to his advantage and cut 3 of them down in quick succession. During that moment, Mace Windu got sufficient window to sink into Vaapad. The Jedi clearly underestimated Palpatine.

Strategy makes difference, specially in a closed setting. Uhuh, I'm looking for feats, not excuses.

And naw, he'd kill the non-Force sensitives with a gesture. Then proceed to toy with/blitz the rest. And Palpatine blitzed those masters because through sheer speed darling, this is made apparent by multiple sources, that it had to do with the cramped condition is complete conjecture, and supported by nothing. And sending four of the finest Jedi in the Order to take him down is hardly what I'd call underestimation. But no, they were not prepared for Sheev, the TOR phags won't fare any better.

This isn't even his best either, as you yourself pointed out, Sidious cut down all three before Windu got a clue, and he'd later go on to prove too fast for TCW Maul to perceive. The TOR strike team stands no chance against something that can't hope to keep up with.

Beniboybling
And this is just ROTS. His ROTJ & DE incarnations are far more powerful. thumb up

SunRazer
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan dominated, rofl. They were ragdolled, held in stasis, and almost pummeled to death until the Outlander freed them, presumbly with the aid of Revan's spirit. Not to mention the coalition team had air support, blasting Revan via bombing runs from above via orders from Theron Shan. And the enviroment hindered Revan, since it was close quarters, not allowing him to maximize on his teleportation..

Don't know where they were ragdolled, and the Outlander's part of the fight.

What? Teleportation is a way of circumventing the fact that it's close quarters...

Geistalt
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
None of that makes any sense.

That accolade is recent (and official) and according to it, the Outlander > Revan. It sets the precedent to rank Arcann, Thexan, Vaylin and Valkorion higher than some members here would assume and accolades of Darth Plagueis, Palpatine and Yoda do not apply to these characters because none of them is a Jedi or Sith. "Valkorion's greatest opponent" could be interpreted as Valkorion's most effective opponent.

Geistalt
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Geistalt
lolwut?

Someone doesn't appear to remember what actually happened.

What really happened is that Arcann and Senya got ragdolled. After fighting 3 Horizon Guards and 5 Knights with the Outlander's help. uh they fought vaylin too Exactly.

And still emerged the victors.

McP
Originally posted by Trocity
Plagueis, not close.

S_W_LeGenD
^^^

Pathetic.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Geistalt
"Valkorion's greatest opponent" could be interpreted as Valkorion's most effective opponent.
Most powerful is the term used.

The Outlander > Revan

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