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* RotS Kenobi
* SOR Wrath

Kenobi very deceisively

Outdueling a cyborg who has given significant trouble to a swordmaster factually above any Jedi from the Old Republic is a feat far beyond anything the Wrath has shown.

Kenobi, yeah.

Going to have to go with Obi-Wan.

unless the Wrath was a Marauder

Wrath > Karness Muur ~ Darth Krayt > Obi-Wan Kenobi > A'sharad Hett.

Certainly debatable.

What's Wrath > Muur based on?

Please don't tell me it's the "second coming of Exar Kun" quote...

AP reaching new autistic levels every day.

It's based on the Wrath clearly being a far better duelist by feats and accolades and the fact his powers should be on par with Styrak's, whose powers and mastery of alchemy were incomparable.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Wrath > Karness Muur ~ Darth Krayt > Obi-Wan Kenobi > A'sharad Hett.

Certainly debatable.

https://m.popkey.co/2f86ce/X0ljG.gif

Lol.

Hett was contesting Kenobi very well until Kenobi got a moment of realisation that Luke would be compromised should he lose. We know as a matter of fact that Darth Krayt perfected his lightsaber skills against a thousand opponents over the century after that and obviously gained massively in power, meaning his augmentative abilities would skyrocket too.

Karness Muur was stalemating Darth Krayt in a duel despite being five millennia out of practice.

Wrath > Muur is a bit of a foregone conclusion.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's based on the Wrath clearly being a far better duelist by feats and accolades and the fact his powers should be on par with Styrak's, whose powers and mastery of alchemy were incomparable.

The Wrath has no dueling feats surpassing Muur being evenly matched with Krayt. More importantly, Obi-Wan's feats are better than the Wrath's, so we're getting kind of circular here. And what accolades put him far above Muur?

Should be on par with Styrak's based on what? You're basically saying his powers rival all of the Dread Masters, as I'm sure you know.

Except Muur isn't even supposedly the best duelist of the Exiles and we know Tulak Hord was the greatest duelist of the Ancient Sith overall per Kreia's accurate estimations.

The Wrath becomes singularly legendary among the Empire for his lightsaber ability and mastery of the dark side, lightsaber ability which should naturally surpass Nox's. Nox had inherited Hord's power and apparently his lightsaber skill, given Nox's lightsaber skills were stated to be as formidable as her Force powers, just as Hord's powers were as considerable as his own lightsaber skill.

It's convoluted, I freely admit that, but such is navigating TOR era content.

As far as the DMs are concerned, they themselves state that the Wrath would become their Scion of Terror and that he is worthy of joining their union.

1. Just... what? Nox inheriting Hord's power isn't literal and it doesn't make him or her equally skilled as Hord just because "they're as formidable with their blade as with their Force powers", lmfao. Not to mention that Hord doesn't have that accolade to begin with. You made a completely arbitrary judgement on how Hord's power and skill compared to each other and then decided to use that to prove that Nox rivalled Hord. lmfao

2. Sounds like they're referring to him serving them or some such. In no way does that make him as powerful as them. What a huge leap of logic, lol. What happened to all the arguments about the DM's "dominating" the protagonists and what not?

Khem Val states it directly after musing her power. So he's clearly referring to power and knowledge in a literal sense. Why wouldn't it? The indication is clear that Nox wasn't just a powerhouse in the Force but just as formidable in a duel. Hord's powers if anything are the primary aspect of his character, he's a sorcerer more than he ever was a warrior. This is recurring theme with the Ancient Sith.

Not at all, they are stating the Wrath will become a part of their union, not just some puppet. When Styrak died they needed a sixth to balance their powers, but it took the right Sith. They chose the Wrath because of his domination in combat and the horror he thus inspires, Nox gets something completely different.

Close fight. Kenobi prolly takes it, but it's an excellent fight. Were it Wrathlander the he'd take it

Originally posted by AncientPower
Khem Val states it directly after musing her power. So he's clearly referring to power and knowledge in a literal sense. Why wouldn't it? The indication is clear that Nox wasn't just a powerhouse in the Force but just as formidable in a duel. Hord's powers if anything are the primary aspect of his character, he's a sorcerer more than he ever was a warrior. This is recurring theme with the Ancient Sith.

Can I have Khem's quote?

Hord is renowned for his skills as a warrior moreso than as a Sorcerer. Certainly when Kreia was giving a brief overview of Hord, she skipped his powers of Sorcery completely and went straight to talking about his dueling skills. Not saying he's anything but a proficient Sorcerer; it's just that his dueling skills are first and foremost. The premier aspect of his holocron, as I recall, were his lightsaber teachings. And even if you did make the judgement that Hord's powers > his lightsaber skills, that's a purely arbitrary thing and you can't use that to say Nox is now Hord's equal in sabers. By god, that's a horrific stretch. I'm not sure my elastic band could manage it.



Again, that doesn't mean the Wrath is exactly equal to Styrak, but it's not even necessary to debate the point. The Wrath being as powerful as Styrak on his own isn't even remotely impressive.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Wrath > Karness Muur ~ Darth Krayt > Obi-Wan Kenobi > A'sharad Hett.

Certainly debatable. haermm

TPM Yoda >/= TPM Dooku ~ RotS Obi-Wan >>> HoT > Wrath.

Lmfao.

Obi wan

Originally posted by Ursumeles
TPM Yoda >/= TPM Dooku ~ RotS Obi-Wan >>> HoT > Wrath.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Can I have Khem's quote?





Previously Val considered Kallig to be nothing next to Hord, but Val changesvhis mind gradually as Kallig obtains the power of the Sith Spirits. His nature as a Dashade should also given him a strong measure of the power of these Sith.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Hord is renowned for his skills as a warrior moreso than as a Sorcerer. Certainly when Kreia was giving a brief overview of Hord, she skipped his powers of Sorcery completely and went straight to talking about his dueling skills. Not saying he's anything but a proficient Sorcerer; it's just that his dueling skills are first and foremost. The premier aspect of his holocron, as I recall, were his lightsaber teachings.

Um, not really:



Originally posted by SunRazer
And even if you did make the judgement that Hord's powers > his lightsaber skills, that's a purely arbitrary thing and you can't use that to say Nox is now Hord's equal in sabers. By god, that's a horrific stretch. I'm not sure my elastic band could manage it.

That's not the logic at all. His knowledge of Sith Sorcery and power, was legendary, even more formidable than his lightsaber skills. But that's only one stick in the firewood pile. If Nox has the power of Tulak Hord then her augmentative power should be up there too, one can presume augmentation was a primary factor in his legendary lightsaber prowess which was the greatest amongst them all.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Again, that doesn't mean the Wrath is exactly equal to Styrak, but it's not even necessary to debate the point. The Wrath being as powerful as Styrak on his own isn't even remotely impressive.

Styrak is the incomparable alchemist. You also need to realise that even though the DMs power is combined, they became that powerful and immortal due to his alchemical prowess. If the Wrath is strong enough to join them in Styrak's place, then things are pretty simple.

1. Worthy of being a heir isn't the same as being equally powerful. Certainly not enough to make a concrete claim like them being dead equals in power.

2. Hord being known for Sorcery doesn't mean he was more known for that than dueling.

3. Augmentation was not the primary factor, since Hord is specifically renowned for his skill as a swordsman.

4. Alchemy is hardly a product of power alone. Most of its applications are ritualistic in nature. Again, Styrak on his lonesome hasn't shown anything to impress.

I'd go Kenobi in a nail-biter.