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Here's a series of morals-off battles held in Visquis' arena underneath the Jekk'Jekk Tarr. Inspired by the Combat Simulation Arena 4.0 mod for KotOR II.

1. Asajj Ventress & Durge vs RotS Obi-Wan Kenobi

2. Vrook Lamar, Kavar, Zez-Kai Ell, Lonna Vash & Atris vs Ki-Adi Mundi, Shaak Ti, Aayla Secura, Tarr Seir & K'kruhk (from OCW)

3. Xesh vs Vaylin

4. Darth Traya, Darth Sion & Darth Nihilus vs Darth Revan & Darth Malak (no Drain)

-- Bonus: Darth Nihilus after he fails his Drain on the Exile

5. Exar Kun vs Ulic Qel-Droma & Nomi Sunrider

6. Reborn Krayt, Darth Maladi, Darth Talon & Darth Nihl vs Mace Windu, Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin & Kit Fisto

7. General Grievous vs SoD Maul (sabers only)

8. Darth Vader & the Dark Apprentice vs Darth Plagueis (67 BBY) & Darth Venamis

1. Prolly Kenobi
2. What are Vash's feats, again?
3. Xesh mindrapes
4. Team 1
Bonus: No Idea
5. Exar, I guess.
6. Team Legacy.
7. Grievous
8. Potentially Team 2.

Originally posted by Ursumeles

3. Xesh mindrapes

1. Unless Kenobi pulls something out-of-character, Durge and Asajj together may be too much.
2. The Hypori team.
3. Xesh mindrapes.
4. Nihilus solos; Bonus: Team 1.
5. Exar.
6. Krayt and co.
7. Either way.
8. Team 2.

Originally posted by MythLord
1. Unless Kenobi pulls something out-of-character, Originally posted by SunRazer
Here's a series of morals-off battles

He blows up Durge. :3

morals off kenobi could dispatch of either ventress or durge via force use

@Urs - Vash basically has the generic Council member hype from KotOR II, mastery of all forms, etc. She's dead by the time you find her in-game, so yeah. Apart from her one Sense feat in a flashback, she doesn't have anything else.

@MythLord - He blew up Durge that was weakened by electricity by charging up his power for several seconds in complete freedom, and he was blasting outwards from inside Durge, which is much easier than blowing Durge apart from an external attack. Granted, he's grown more powerful since then, but I'm unconvinced that he can replicate that showing quickly or easily, which he'll have to do while Ventress puts the pressure on him.

Eh...Team PT, then.

You don't think Tarr Seirr would be a significant weak link and the first to die? Aayla might be a weak link if the KotOR Jedi use their powers as well.

Also, it's Shaak from Hypori, not TFU.

How the f-uck is Aayla a weak link in the Force?

Am I missing something? All I recall of her is TK'ing non-Force sensitives, TK'ing Aurra Sing, and using Saber Throw. Her other uses of the Force have been pretty generic as well. Certainly not anything above Dantooine Exile, whom Vrook casually placed in Stasis.

If I've forgotten something, then remind me and I'll reevaluate my stance accordingly.

EDIT: By the way, the Battle of Hypori takes place a mere 4 months after AotC, so we're only using Aayla's feats up to and of that time.

1. Kenobi solidly
2. No clue
3. No clue
4. Nihilus creampies
Bonus: No clue
5. Exar creampies
6. Krayt creampies
7. Grievous, probably
8. Plagueis creampies

67 BBY Plagueis already stomping both Vader and the Dark Apprentice (who's at least as strong as Starkiller)? That's a bit suspect.

Krayt solo-stomping Mace + the B-team is pretty ****ing ridiculous.

How is Exar easily beating Qel-Droma and Sunrider?

Not seeing anything solid about Obi-Wan taking on both Ventress and Durge at the same time. Even the slightest distraction from one of them could open him up to a fatal hit from the other.

Originally posted by SunRazer
67 BBY Plagueis already stomping both Vader and the Dark Apprentice (who's at least as strong as Starkiller)? That's a bit suspect.

Oops. Didn't notice it was 67 BBY.

Anyway, team 2 in a decent fight



I rank Krayt highly.



Never been impressed with Nomi, and Exar's power being above nexus-amped Vitiate's a few decades before the novel should do the trick.



He blows up Durge and beats Ventress solidly.

Unless you rank Krayt in the same tier as Palpatine (which I would be genuinely surprised if you of all people did), then he has no chance of stomping all four solo. And according to Zoltan, it took him some time to beat Cade Skywalker. Definitely not Palpatine-tier.

How about Ulic being a rival of Kun's in Force power by Kun's own admission just a year before Kun's prime? And Nomi is holistically an extremely powerful figure. It is fairly arbitrary as to where you'd rank her, though.

Not seeing him blow up Durge before Ventress guts him. Reasons above. He requires concentration, which won't be afforded to him in a scenario like this.

I have him somewhat close to Plagueis, and I guess BoTPM Sidious. But then again, I consider those two capable of stomping Mace and co. so I don't see it being out of Krayt's reach either.

When did Kun admit that?

Fine. He throws Durge a kilometer in a random direction and then beats Ventress solidly.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You don't think Tarr Seirr would be a significant weak link and the first to die? Aayla might be a weak link if the KotOR Jedi use their powers as well.

Also, it's Shaak from Hypori, not TFU.
1. She or Vash.
2. Possibly.
3. I know.

After rethinking, might KoTOR, but it's damn close.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Am I missing something? All I recall of her is TK'ing non-Force sensitives, TK'ing Aurra Sing, and using Saber Throw. Her other uses of the Force have been pretty generic as well. Certainly not anything above Dantooine Exile, whom Vrook casually placed in Stasis.

If I've forgotten something, then remind me and I'll reevaluate my stance accordingly.

EDIT: By the way, the Battle of Hypori takes place a mere 4 months after AotC, so we're only using Aayla's feats up to and of that time.

Well pre-Hypori is harder, but for example she survived Volfe's lightning with lethal intent 8 years beforehand. And survived a ship explosion without a scratch 6 years before AotC. And 2 months after Hypori she KO'd Aurra with a kick, someone who can tank boulders smashed in her face.

Originally posted by Azronger
I have him somewhat close to Plagueis, and I guess BoTPM Sidious. But then again, I consider those two capable of stomping Mace and co. so I don't see it being out of Krayt's reach either.

When did Kun admit that?

Fine. He throws Durge a kilometer in a random direction and then beats Ventress solidly.

1. Dear oh dear.

2. Here:



Ulic being a rival of a Kun that could obliterate Nadd's spirit is a really good accolade.

3. Nah.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Well pre-Hypori is harder, but for example she survived Volfe's lightning with lethal intent 8 years beforehand. And survived a ship explosion without a scratch 6 years before AotC. And 2 months after Hypori she KO'd Aurra with a kick, someone who can tank boulders smashed in her face.

The augmentation feats are nice but I'm not seeing anything better than Dantooine Exile here.

Also, Aayla gets dominated by Vos's TK, who I don't recall as having superior feats/accolades to Vrook either.

Saying Vrook > Vos, and Vos can dominate Aayla is kinda shitty tbh, when Zoltan could argue dominating Aayla >> Vrooks feats lol.

Nah. Dominating Exile is better.

Especially since it was Stasis and not throwing pebbles to break Aayla's guard and then ragdolling her.

@Nova

1. It's not that outrageous, lol.

2. My opinion of Ulic skyrocketed, tbh.

3. If phucking Saesee Tiin can throw droids that far, then Kenobi can, too, lmao.

1. It is. Nobody would "stomp" Mace in sabers, not even Palpatine. And Krayt failing to stomp Cade without Dark Transfer is proof that he can't stomp Mace, let alone the entire B-team.

2. Indeed. Heck, the quote mentions Kun growing in power after obliterating Nadd's spirit, before he senses Ulic as a rival.

3. Durge >> droids.

1. Luke would

When did I say he'd stomp Mace in sabers?

And where do you make the connection between Cade and the B-team anyway? And it's not like Krayt used his entire arsenal of Force powers against Cade to begin with. And he did pretty much stomp him with telepathy.

2. And then there's Vodo sensing that after Nadd died, someone of equal power had taken his olace, that being Kun. Really impressive for Ulic, considering spirit Nadd's power.

3. Durge is a bit heavier, sure, but Tiin threw th droid a lot farther than a kilometer, so it balances out

Originally posted by SunRazer
The augmentation feats are nice but I'm not seeing anything better than Dantooine Exile here.

So what did the Exile do that's as good or better than what I said? Especially if you consider how much pre-primeHypori Aayla was. Almost a decade.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Also, Aayla gets dominated by Vos's TK, who I don't recall as having superior feats/accolades to Vrook either.

He also dominated K'Kruh (who can pull ships out of the sky) before he dominated Aayla, yet you don't call him a weak link for that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Also, Aayla gets dominated by Vos's TK, who I don't recall as having superior feats/accolades to Vrook either.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nah. Dominating Exile is better.

Especially since it was Stasis and not throwing pebbles to break Aayla's guard and then ragdolling her.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/e1c85a2056f00bf0b9ce5b9dccbebc61/tumblr_nhxlvqT6Gb1u4gvpao1_500.gif

Nova just makes these threads to wank sh!t and question people.

Gonna give up using smiley faces because they're basically ignored anyway, lol.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
So what did the Exile do that's as good or better than what I said? Especially if you consider how much pre-primeHypori Aayla was. Almost a decade.

Here's a few things:

1. Being strong enough to learn techniques in moments when Jedi Masters can't learn them in years.

2. Being sensed from across the galaxy by Visas Marr as someone stronger than herself, who can incapacitate the Exile's entire party (bar Kreia, who was presumably faking it) and is second only to Nihilus in terms of dark side mastery amongst Nihilus' faction of the Sith.

3. Becoming so powerful that she becomes a disturbance in the Force that Nihilus can freely sense from across the galaxy, in spite of Meetra's efforts to conceal her Force presence.

4. Inhaling several seconds of cyanogen gas and then proceeding to fight on through everyone in the Jekk'Jekk Tarr.

5. Using Battle Meditation to make the Royalists one-shot Vaklu's Separatists, when they were evenly matched beforehand.

6. The whole Force Bond stuff with her companions, which Kreia explains to you is a result of how strong your connection to the Force is.

As for being pre-prime, these things all take place well before Dantooine, and top of her natural growth in power she would've grown stronger from each person she's killed.



Forgot about that. That means we have three weak links, then. Vrook could probably dominate Aayla, and perhaps K'kruhk, whilst Atris or Kavar could definitely dominate Tarr Seirr.

Originally posted by Azronger
1. Luke would

When did I say he'd stomp Mace in sabers?

And where do you make the connection between Cade and the B-team anyway? And it's not like Krayt used his entire arsenal of Force powers against Cade to begin with. And he did pretty much stomp him with telepathy.

2. And then there's Vodo sensing that after Nadd died, someone of equal power had taken his olace, that being Kun. Really impressive for Ulic, considering spirit Nadd's power.

3. Durge is a bit heavier, sure, but Tiin threw th droid a lot farther than a kilometer, so it balances out

1. Krayt made use of Lightning and TK against Cade off the bat, and unsuccessfully at that. Not seeing where he stomped Cade with TP. He thought he had converted Cade, but Cade resisted his telepathy.

2. Well, honestly, Kun destroying Nadd would've led me to believe that Kun was more powerful. But indeed, it makes sense for Ulic to keep being a relative rival of Kun in power.

3. Much heavier, but also able to do things before getting thrown like some helpless twerp.

where would khruk in his prime rank given how much time he had to grow from icw?

He has up until Legacy, which is a very long time. Don't know much about how powerful he became then, however.

loosely similar to satele shan, but yea givn he was pulling ships from the sky with a century plus left to grow power wise, his force powers should be pretty impressive though we don't have any good way to precisely place him

Originally posted by SunRazer
Vrook could probably dominate Aayla, and perhaps K'kruhk

Absolutely lolworthy, Nova.

Shaak, and potentially Mundi & K'krukh, can dominate Zez & Vash as well, lmao.

K'kruhk is bringing down ships in a medium that lowballs Force users. Throwing the Exile back pales in comparison.

1. Team, it's a stomp if this is classic Ventress.
2. Has T2 been fighting battle droids on Hypori for several days?
3. Vaylin stomps.
4. Team 2, every time.
5. Depends on how much help Nomi would be against Exar's sorcery.
6. Team 1.
7. Maul.
8. Team 1, Venamis is a weak link.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Krayt made use of Lightning and TK against Cade off the bat, and unsuccessfully at that. Not seeing where he stomped Cade with TP. He thought he had converted Cade, but Cade resisted his telepathy.

2. Well, honestly, Kun destroying Nadd would've led me to believe that Kun was more powerful. But indeed, it makes sense for Ulic to keep being a relative rival of Kun in power.

3. Much heavier, but also able to do things before getting thrown like some helpless twerp.

1. Good for Cade, then. Nothing to do with the B-team or Mace, I'm afraid. And Cade never resisted his TP. Krayt let him go willingly.

2. Well, Kun could be more powerful, since Vodo simply said something along the lines of (paraphrasing) "a great power has vanished and another has taken its place." All we know for certain is that they're relative.

3. Like what, for example?

Originally posted by MythLord
K'kruhk is bringing down ships in a medium that lowballs Force users. Throwing the Exile back pales in comparison.

Throwing back? How about putting her in Stasis?

I've already shown you why the Exile sits above Aayla. Pulling down ships isn't that great, especially when it's entirely plausible that it was just the control panel.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
1. Team, it's a stomp if this is classic Ventress.
2. Has T2 been fighting battle droids on Hypori for several days?
3. Vaylin stomps.
4. Team 2, every time.
5. Depends on how much help Nomi would be against Exar's sorcery.
6. Team 1.
7. Maul.
8. Team 1, Venamis is a weak link.

2. You can have a separate round for the exhausted Hypori team and their healthy versions.

3. Damn, really?

8. How so? He's a near-equal of Plagueis in power, faster than team 1, and surely comparable in skill?

Originally posted by Azronger
1. Good for Cade, then. Nothing to do with the B-team or Mace, I'm afraid. And Cade never resisted his TP. Krayt let him go willingly.

2. Well, Kun could be more powerful, since Vodo simply said something along the lines of (paraphrasing) "a great power has vanished and another has taken its place." All we know for certain is that they're relative.

3. Like what, for example?

1. Right, so Krayt never dominated him in TP.

2. Alright.

3. Like being faster than Obi-Wan and thus being able to perform attacks of some kind before Obi-Wan tries TK at least. Not to mention Ventress could potentially cushion such an attack or capitalize on that brief moment of concentration on Obi-Wan's part to land a crippling blow.

Razer, read my thread in the EU section.

Originally posted by SunRazer
especially when it's entirely plausible that it was just the control panel. Not you as well

I acknowledge both scenarios. The control panel thing is certainly plausible, though. Don't try to act like it's an impossibility.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Razer, read my thread in the EU section.

I did. Terrible.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I acknowledge both scenarios. The control panel thing is certainly plausible, though. Don't try to act like it's an impossibility. It isn't, but evidence points towards it not being the control panel

Like the guy screaming that the controls were being manipulated? And don't give me the shit about him not looking at it. He can feel the direction of the controls with his fingers, lol.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Throwing back? How about putting her in Stasis?

I've already shown you why the Exile sits above Aayla. Pulling down ships isn't that great, especially when it's entirely plausible that it was just the control panel.

Yeah, putting someone who probably wasn't even defending themselves in stasis also isn't domination.

The control panel? You mean the one the co-pilot said were at fault while the pilot was gripping and pulling them upwards? Riiiight. On the other hand, we have two quotes and the actual comic itself mentioning how the Force, in this case K'krukh's, is powerful enough to bring down a ship.

Also, didn't you advocate that K'kruhk did this not long ago? Why the sudden change?

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Right, so Krayt never dominated him in TP.

2. Alright.

3. Like being faster than Obi-Wan and thus being able to perform attacks of some kind before Obi-Wan tries TK at least. Not to mention Ventress could potentially cushion such an attack or capitalize on that brief moment of concentration on Obi-Wan's part to land a crippling blow.

1.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111212701/4636544-screen+shot+2015-06-16+at+10.17.05+pm.png

2. Faster than Obi-Wan? Based on what?

3. So if Ventress cushions it, what prevents Kenobi from taking the kill while she's concentrating?

4. How exactly is Ventress landing a cripling blow against Kenobi? She hasn't done it to inferior iterations (to my knowledge), and this is prime Kenobi. Not that Kenobi really needs to concentrate hard; a small break in the duel is enough.

@Azronger -

1. Yeah, that's him showing Cade a "vision of the future". Not domination, otherwise Cade would've joined the Sith...

2. Based on this: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3788874-4684674973-23996.jpg

3. Durge. One of them can charge up attacks or what not in relative safety whilst the other distracts Obi-Wan. Or alternately, they attack him together and keep him from "dominating" anybody.

4. Not seeing how a small break would be enough to give him the power to hurl Durge kilometres. And I'm not sure how your evidence disproves the notion of Ventress landing a crippling attack on Obi-Wan while he's distracted, as I was clearly saying.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, putting someone who probably wasn't even defending themselves in stasis also isn't domination.

The control panel? You mean the one the co-pilot said were at fault while the pilot was gripping and pulling them upwards? Riiiight. On the other hand, we have two quotes and the actual comic itself mentioning how the Force, in this case K'krukh's, is powerful enough to bring down a ship.

Also, didn't you advocate that K'kruhk did this not long ago? Why the sudden change?

1. You can choose to defend yourself and you're still put in Stasis.

2. What's wrong with the co-pilot saying it? Unless you think for some reason that he suffered a moment of sudden mental trauma, I'm not seeing why his speech wouldn't be considered an accurate representation of the author's message.

3. The Force can bring down a ship, but that doesn't mean it has to be done directly, lol.

4. You have to at least acknowledge that it's plausible, if not the more likely option.