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Michael
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/ML_zpsqv2f5c4e.png
Lucifer
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/LR_zpsvtjo6sun.png

vs

Molecule Man
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/MM_zpsiyqvbqkp.png
Beyonder
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/BR_zpsabnanmi9.jpg

2

Good fight zack

Team 1 is Omnipotent while Team 2 is Nigh-Omnipotent

Technically:

Molecule Man >>> Michael + Lucifer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beyonderweak

This has been done, in some form or another, ad nauseam -- to the point that most of us don't give a flying **** anymore.

A consensus will simply never be reached.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Team 1 is Omnipotent

Huh?

Team 2.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Huh? it even says it in your avatar

My point being, Lucifer and Michael aren't omnipotent. The Presence could still erase them as easily as he created them, ergo they're nigh-omnipotent, just like Team 2.

Anyways, Team 1 Should win. Team 2 is absurdly formidable, but the literal Demiurgic Power of Yahweh and the literal infinite will of Yahweh should be superior.

It should be a tie really. They seem to be counterparts of each other: Michael & Lucifer control Matter and energy respectively and Owen and Beyonder do the same sort of ( Owen controls all matter and Beyonder is the living embodiment of the vast energy of another universe outside our own. So, it's a tie imo.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
My point being, Lucifer and Michael aren't omnipotent. The Presence could still erase them as easily as he created them, ergo they're nigh-omnipotent, just like Team 2.

Anyways, Team 1 Should win. Team 2 is absurdly formidable, but the literal Demiurgic Power of Yahweh and the literal infinite will of Yahweh should be superior. typo i meant team 2 is omnipotent while team 1 is only nigh omnipotent

Team 1

Looking back on this, I might actually go with team 2 here.

Why? Are you saying cube beings are superior to literally the power of God from DC?

Don't be absurd.

MM and Beyonder have some ridiculous feats to their name even post Retcon.
Examples :
1) Beyonder wiped Death out across the multiverse, no one and nothing could stop him or reverse it.
2) MM hit Beyonder with a blast capable of slagging billions of dimensions, Beyonder coughed.
3) MM gathered all the free energy in the multiverse to create a protective dome, Beyonder shattered it with ease.
4) MM and Beyonder got into a TRANSMULTIVERSAL fight that was causing havoc throughout all dimensions and timelines.

IMHO, T2 wins.

TOAA > President retcon be yonder

Michael and Lucifer = DC TOAA

Michael and Lucifer > pre retcon beyonder

Originally posted by zopzop
MM and Beyonder have some ridiculous feats to their name even post Retcon.
Examples :
1) Beyonder wiped Death out across the multiverse, no one and nothing could stop him or reverse it.
2) MM hit Beyonder with a blast capable of slagging billions of dimensions, Beyonder coughed.
3) MM gathered all the free energy in the multiverse to create a protective dome, Beyonder shattered it with ease.
4) MM and Beyonder got into a TRANSMULTIVERSAL fight that was causing havoc throughout all dimensions and timelines.

IMHO, T2 wins.
That's all fine and dandy but I can find feats of DC characters even more ridiculous than that.

Hierarchy matters more than random feats. Do these beat LT too IYO?

Ah shit, this is post retcon?

LMAO. Michael solostomps.

Also, literally all of those feats zopzop posted except the last one were performed by Pre-retcon Beyonder.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's all fine and dandy but I can find feats of DC characters even more ridiculous than that.

Hierarchy matters more than random feats. Do these beat LT too IYO?
Yup. It was shown on panel and stated in the handbook entries that NO ONE present could stop Beyonder from erasing Death :
Original Scene :
https://s7.postimg.org/l2d8prbw7/th05q8_V.jpg
Confirmation years later :
https://s7.postimg.org/rg2bt0w7r/image.jpg
Further confirmation in the Handbook entry of the LT :
https://s7.postimg.org/pbhys4x7r/image.jpg
It's repeated in Death and Eternity's entries too.

The entire cosmic hierarchy couldn't stop Beyonder (even post Retcon) from erasing Death or undo his feat.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ah shit, this is post retcon?

LMAO. Michael solostomps.

Also, literally all of those feats zopzop posted except the last one were performed by Pre-retcon Beyonder.
Wrong. See the above scans and hunt down the various handbook entries I mentioned. All valid POST Retcon.

I thought the death business was pre-retcon??

Originally posted by krisblaze
I thought the death business was pre-retcon?? The entry is post retcon though.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I thought the death business was pre-retcon?? Originally posted by Mindset
The entry is post retcon though.
The Handbook entries and the ON PANEL showing in Quasar 38 are all POST retcon.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yup. It was shown on panel and stated in the handbook entries that NO ONE present could stop Beyonder from erasing Death :
Original Scene :
https://s7.postimg.org/l2d8prbw7/th05q8_V.jpg
Confirmation years later :
https://s7.postimg.org/rg2bt0w7r/image.jpg
Further confirmation in the Handbook entry of the LT :
https://s7.postimg.org/pbhys4x7r/image.jpg
It's repeated in Death and Eternity's entries too.

The entire cosmic hierarchy couldn't stop Beyonder (even post Retcon) from erasing Death or undo his feat.


Marvel death is just a ***** though.

Even by Necropsy you can kill a universe's Death.

It was revealed as an illusion IIRC as most of Beyonder's confrontations with abstracts.

Also Molecule Man was revealed as universal bomb only in Avengers by Hickman and Beyonder was straight up beaten by Kubik.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Marvel death is just a ***** though.

Even by Necropsy you can kill a universe's Death.
He didn't wipe out Death across a universe, he wiped it out throughout the multiverse.


Yes, MOST but the Trial of Death wasn't an illusion. Check the confirmation in Quasar (post retcon) and Death/Eternity/LT's handbook entries. The abstracts were begging Beyonder not to erase Death and none of them could stop him or undo the damage he did.

Originally posted by zopzop

He didn't wipe out Death across a universe, he wiped it out throughout the multiverse.


Slightly more impressive then. Death also straight up ran away like a ***** against Chaos King.

So are you saying that Marvel's cosmic hierarchy is less powerful than a bunch of cosmic cubes?

Because they are shittier than ever if true.

Team 2 godstomps. Mismatch.

Team 1 wins

Originally posted by abhilegend
Slightly more impressive then. Death also straight up ran away like a ***** against Chaos King.
CK had the power to destroy 98.75% of the Marvel multiverse. Hardly a bad showing for Death.


Yup. The Cosmic Cubes are no joke. Five cubes in Magus' hands put Eternity/Infinity into a coma, hid his presence from all the other powers and principalities (including the LT), and they were merging 616 reality with Magus' shadow reality. ONE cube was causing ominiversal damage in the "Chaos Engine" series which is canon according to the handbook entries. With one Cube Thanos unseated Eternity and took control of the universe till Captain Marvel shatter his power source. In an alternate reality, the Badoon Cube pinned the entire race of Celestials to a star and held them there against their will. I can go on but you get my point.

Originally posted by zopzop

CK had the power to destroy 98.75% of the Marvel multiverse. Hardly a bad showing for Death.


That was a limited universe+godly realms.

Because Noone was looking for him. Otherwise Korvac hid himself from the powers of the universe and was changing Eternity subtly.

30 cosmic cubes were needed to just destroy a universe.
Have you actually read the story? It's far more than simply causing omniversal damage. I destroyed master on this.
Originally posted by abhilegend
The CCU only did it for the planet only.

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29684002_Mastertheidiot1.jpg

Its clearly stated that a fully formed cube can restructure the planet. But as the CCU was flawed, it merged the different planets.



"Three different earths trying to occupy the same space."

Where is the universe merging you're talking about?



Grants her power over the omniverse? What are you talking about? She had the crystals which her grandfather had built and which allowed her to destroy a reality.

She was not powered by the ****ing omniverse you goon.



Hey idiot, CCU was flat out stated to be planetary in power several times.

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29684002_Mastertheidiot1.jpg

All it did was create a reality cancer which threatened to weaken the barriers between the realities and destroy the omniverse.

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29684001_Mastertheidiot.jpg

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29684002_Mastertheidiot1.jpg

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29684003_Mastertheidiot2.jpg


And Doom with Roma's power was beaten by Captain Britain Corps.

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29684012_Mastertheidiot3.jpg





In form of crystals. Not in her own power.



Crystals you goon. The power wasn't flowing through her.



Yes, a reality cancer. A planetary bomb also threatened to do that.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29684014_Mastertheidiot5.jpg

Read and weep.

----------------------------------------------------------




It didn't warp the parallel dimensions. It created a reality cancer which was causing all that trouble.

But let me know where it even warped a whole universe before you start harping about dozens of universes.



Yes, the reality cancer. Not warping of universes or shit like that.




Haha, seriously? Those are due to the crystals which housed the life forces of realities. Not that it was an omniversal power in one spot.



Yes, it Rock of Eternity lite. It doesn't give you omniversal power however.



Those are literally worlds aka Earths. Not universes. And that's Betsy not jean.

Did you even read it or just searched cube in Adobe Reader? Here is the full page.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/29684015_Mastertheidiot6.jpg




He literally separated the three earths that were joined. Not universes.




Oh you simple minded buffoon. Got any more claims I need to destroy?



And that's the best showing for a cube.

Celestials and Eternity are the reason you give win here?

FFS, get your arguments together. Spectre has better feats than any cube being alone. Dream has too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That was a limited universe+godly realms.
Not according to Oblivion. He stated CK came close to destroying ALL universes but fell just short (something Scrier/Other were about to do somehow) :
https://s7.postimg.org/mbfczyu2f/3623016-2859632841-34185.png


Not the same thing. The moment Korvac attacked the Avengers, his cover was blown. Even freaking Hemidall found him.
https://s7.postimg.org/3vuw2fq6v/avengers-177-02-e1404476676802.jpg
Magus was destroying cosmic beings Galactus' level and none of the cosmic hierarchy knew what was going on, not even the LT.


The Goddess was a failure. We've already seen on panel what 5 or even just 1 Cube can do.


Among other reasons, yeah.


I know about the Spectre's feats, but what has Dream done that can compare?

Team 1

Originally posted by zopzop

Not according to Oblivion. He stated CK came close to destroying ALL universes but fell just short (something Scrier/Other were about to do somehow) :
https://s7.postimg.org/mbfczyu2f/3623016-2859632841-34185.png


Oblivion was just blowing his own wad. Nothing he says can be trusted in that Comic.

Because LT couldn't be bothered. Strange and Doom were able to locate Magus when they tried.





5 cubes>>>30 cubes, eh?

Would you give them win over HOTI and IG Thanos? Or LT?



With a portion of his power, Red King created countless universes.

Originally posted by abhilegend

30 cosmic cubes were needed to just destroy a universe.
Actually to conquer "ALL RealitieS" ... ... And the "best" showing for a Cube is destroying and recreating the Omniverse in one swoop. The same Cube remade that recreated Omniverse a 3rd time. As for the Chaos Engine and yur error of interpretation: I challenge you to a battlezone with Mods as judges, with a one year ban for the loser. If you're so confident in my destruction, youl have no problem doing it again. I only hope yur banking yur self-absorbed delusions on the selective excerpts from the book u posted above. Yea, I remember our debate, I also remember per usual intransigence overwhelming yur reason. One Year Ban ... bring it, please. Handbooks and secondary on panel support is acceptable, and writer's interview likewise. Bring it!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually to conquer "ALL RealitieS" ... ... And the "best" showing for a Cube is destroying and recreating the Omniverse in one swoop.
Sure, in a non Canon comic which was a tie in to a video game.
Right, nothing wrong with that statement at all.

I am ready for any battlezone with you. Not as per your rules though. I don't do bans because you will cry a lot when getting banned.

Only on panel (novelization) and handbook entries are acceptable and novelization is the primary proof. No interviews as per forum rules.

this is why i don`t like when writers do their homework,we have had one cosmic cube hold probably 50 or so celestials in a dyson sphere(A theoretical construct that could channel and harness the power of a star,the tech involved would have to be a race millions of years advanced from our present level)but would give you a near infinite free energy source for billions of years.Yet 2 cube beings Kubic and Kosmos said the celestials far surpassed them in power,than we have a 12 issue mini-series where doc doom keeps aquiring objects of greater power each time finally gets a c.c steals Galactus power(it was his goal all along)than throws the cube away knowing with the power of big G he had know use for it.than he starts to feel galactus enourmous hunger and prepares to devour the earth reed locates the cube steels G`s power with the cube and restores galactus.this is just a couple of examples of how the power levels of these cubes is all over the place.This could go on and on(by the way the mini-series had like 5 or 6 writers doing a couple issues a peice so i`m sure the each had their own opinion).and no i don`t think 5 cubes should be able to bind Eternity,to me they can do anything ie make one godlike but only on maybe a galaxy space level.

either team 1 solos

Spite.Beyonder solos.

spite, lucifer solos

Michael solos

Anyone on team two would destroy team one.

Anyone on team one would destroy team two.

Anyone on team one would destroy team two.