Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Battle of the debunked.

Prime, unamped living versions. Fight takes in the Forgotten Terrace.

1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-out

Caedus sweeps.

Caedus should win all, yeah.
I doubt that Sorcery could really affect him, and Jacen is more powerful, skilled and has better physicals.

Galaxy wins. Either way one c-unt fewer in it.

Kun sweeps

Kun sweeps, Caedus wetting himself due to Krayt's power, who is barely more powerful than Prime Muur is a really poor indication of how well Caedus hangs here.

So much silliness in one post. Luke was wetting himself over Krayt as well, and he'd mush Kun into a little ball. Not that Prime Muur compares to FOTJ Krayt anyway.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So much silliness in one post. Luke was wetting himself over Krayt as well, and he'd mush Kun into a little ball. Not that Prime MuurKun compares to FOTJ Krayt anyway.

Luke was doing no such thing, Caedus literally turned to the Dark Side of the Force in an attempt to circumvent him.

Kun > Freedon Nadd > Marka Ragnos > Ajunta Pall ~/> Karness Muur.

Kun doesn't even need this power scaling to absolutely win this each time.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Luke was doing no such thing, Caedus literally turned to the Dark Side of the Force in an attempt to circumvent him.mmm

Bullshit, and we both know it.

Kun.

Solo sweeps.

Caedus takes sabers, Kun takes Force, unsure about all out.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Luke was doing no such thing, Caedus literally turned to the Dark Side of the Force in an attempt to circumvent him.
Even if that proves what you want it to prove, that just means pre-LOTF Jacen<Krayt, it proves nothing about how Caedus measures up.

And besides, Jacen wasn't freaked out cause he was shitting himself at Krayt's power, he was freaked out because he saw his daughter serving him.

The notion that this in any way draws a comparison between Caedus and Krayt in power is absolute nonsense.

Quite, if anything Caedus made a smart choice. Because he'd probably beat pre-Reborn Krayt in a fight.

Kun

Kun. I don't have as high of an opinion of Caedus as most of you do though

Can't be lower than mine tho.

Caedus pretty handily

Exar's unamped feats are shit

Originally posted by carthage
Caedus pretty handily

Exar's unamped feats are shit

Kun was as powerful as Nadd's spirit when he destroyed him, and screamed across the galaxy in triumph, so Exar Kun massively pre-prime can one-shot Sunrider with Telepathy, trap Arca Jeth in a Sith spell, control the minds of millions and turn the entirety of Onderon into an unusually powerful Dark Side nexus at whim.

Then Exar Kun became extremely powerful, using Sith Sorcery to unleash unchained raw power. Then he leaves to face Ulic, after which they both gain tremendous powers until they return several years later.

Kun, already the darkest power in the galaxy, kills Odan-Urr and takes the Dark Holocron, an object unrivalled among Sith Holocrons and which made him grow in power at an ever increasing rate until he became the most powerful Sith in history, far more powerful than even his apprentice.

So Exar Kun is so far above controlling millions and one shotting some of the most powerful Jedi of his day that these are basically low showings for him.

Caedus has nothing.

Apart from > Vader who ragdolled Starkiller. So he still wins yeah.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Apart from > Vader who ragdolled Starkiller. Hope you mean the original Starkiller there.

And way to put the "Bane > Ambria" accolade into perspective there, AP.

Why when he ragdolled the clone.

Never did anything of the sort.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Apart from > Vader who ragdolled Starkiller. So he still wins yeah.

Kun >> Muur > Vader.

Some drastic underselling of the opposition on both sides here.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Never did anything of the sort.



Kun >> Muur > Vader.
Nah he just threw him like a ragdoll, he didn't actually ragdoll him:
You grab your sabers and attack, but Vader is too powerful. He tosses you away like a rag doll.
-- Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II: Prima Official Game Guide

I'm also wondering exactly how Caedus > Vader > Starkiller is relevant to Kun at all. Exar Kun's canonical superiority to Muur, and the fact that Vector states Muur is strong enough to stop Vader, is pretty damn solid.

19 BBY Vader, though.

Given the major chain of power jumps from Muur to Kun, I'm failing to see how Vader's increases really make up for that.

Prime Muur </~ Ajunta Pall < Marka Ragnos < Freedon Nadd < Exar Kun.

Better yet:

Prime Muur </~ Ajunta Pall < Marka Ragnos << Post-Nathema Vitiate << Pre-Revan Vitiate < Exar Kun.

I have Kun above Vader. RotJ Vader is more powerful than Muur, though. I'd wager he's somewhere between Ragnos and Kun.

Also, what's the proof for Nadd's superiority to Ragnos again?

He's stated to become the greatest Sith sorcerer given time, this was stated a century before his prime. With ancient Sith Lords, Sorcery basically is the bar to measure them by.

There is no concrete evidence that Marka > Pall. There is no concrete evidence that Pall > Muur. There isn't even concrete evidence that Nadd > Marka kek. So let's stop pretending that Kun benefits from any kind of chain at all.

On the other hand yeah, Vader dominated Marek in the Force:

https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/5191508-0209371541-51913.gif

His rule is confirmed to be based on power:



Ragnos > Pall.





Furthermore:



Pall > Muur, the only thing you can try and argue is that Muur became an equal, nothing indicated he ever surpassed him however. The closest we have Is a quote stating they were rivals over the mantle of Dark Lord.



Nadd is a greater sorcerer than Marka Ragnos and we don't even know if this was prime Nadd or an earlier incarnation. Given sorcery's supreme import among the Sith Lords of old, this is as good as a direct power quote.

The mental capacity to comprehend this shouldn't be beyond a fifth grader. Though we both know the real reason you're trying to claim otherwise.

1. I see three things Ragnos' rule was based on there darling, in which respect I agree, Ragnos' greatness was predicated on a set of holistic traits, not just sheer Force ability.

2. In the beginning, before his "Shadow Hands" turned against him and his authority crumbled into civil war, with all of the Exiles, Pall including, coveting the secrets of the others. Haven't I explained this to you already?

3. And no I'm afraid Nadd being a greater sorcerer than Ragnos doesn't preclude the later being more powerful. Regardless of whether it was more prominent, spells and rituals will always play second fiddle to raw power.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The mental capacity to comprehend this shouldn't be beyond a fifth grader. Though we both know the real reason you're trying to claim otherwise. In the name of intellectual honesty and common sense.

Sticking your head in the ground again doesn't constitute an argument.

Concession accepted, dear.

You're not Ant and never will be.

Thank god for that lmao.

Caedus
Kun
Kun

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Thank god for that lmao.
Well you'd have a vitriolic sometimes petty personality if you were, but you'd also be a much better debater and not as much of a cuck, so I'd say it would be a worthy trade.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
cuck

since when is "concession accepted" ant's schtick? he only started using it to emulate intrepid tbh.

I'd be interested in evidence that indicates Ragnos's position owes entirely to strength and not merely partially.

Strength, power and strategy, evidentally.

It'd be disingenuous to assert otherwise when gou could use the same logic against Valkorion/Sidious.

I wonder if AP has a full grasp over the word "entirely."

You must be this thick or you wouldn't make such an evident fool of yourself this consistently.

Obviously no such quote exists, but we use what we have and what we have is enough. What major Dark Lord ever ruled impressively without using strategy?

Right, so you accept that Ragnos' status owes itself not just to strength, but several other factors as well? Cool.

Just like Sidious and Valkorion did, yep.

Yeah, Palpatine being the greatest of all Sith isn't necessarily because he's the most powerful in the Force, though he is that too.

EDIT: Though interestingly, the source on Marka Ragnos being the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith is the Chronicles of the Old Republic, which covers events all the way up to KOTOR II, so I guess by your reading Ragnos > Exar Kun, Revan, Nadd etc. as well. mmm

Lol the entries run in chronological order.

Beni takes another L.

Ah yes, and that is relevant because?

If a book was written on the history of US presidents (in chronological order) and claimed in the opening chapter George Washington was the United States' greatest president. Would I to take it that the author only wrote that because he was the first?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, so you accept that Ragnos' status owes itself not just to strength, but several other factors as well? Cool.

👍

I'll take lazy debating over dishonest debating any day.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Ah yes, and that is relevant because?

If a book was written on the history of US presidents (in chronological order) and claimed in the opening chapter George Washington was the United States' greatest president. Would I to take it that the author only wrote that because he was the first?

Because each entry is present tense. Even so COTOR gets retconned by far more up to date and canonical sources such as TCSWE or TNEC.

You've got no argument.

So what lol. The perspective of the author still covers a period that extends well after Ragnos. But sure, the only source that so much as suggests Ragnos is was the most powerful pre-Nadd is outdated and inaccurate.

It being old doesn't invalidate it entirely, not that your 'interpretation' is remotely valid.

Nah, just this particular quote apparently kek.

Or perhaps it hasn't, as it wasn't referring to Force power exclusively to begin with, as evidenced from the contradictory conclusions that would create, and an explicit source that describes his status as product of a multitude of factors. mmm

I think we're done here AP, how about I give you a few weeks to muster up a better argument and we'll come back to it.

Power and Strength being two of the three primary factors.

I knew we were done here the moment your foul presence entered the thread.

Not that this even matters when Exar Kun's feats surpass Caedus' feats.

Having the endurance to tank an Ossus-amped Ood Bnar Force attack and walking it off moments later? Check.

Shrugging off the Sever Force attempt of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy before one-shotting him? Check.

Mentally controlling every tracker in Cinnagar, which consists of millions of ships being tracked simultaneously on three of the biggest trade routes in the galaxy? Check.

Being far more powerful than the Spirit of Freedon Nadd who gave King Ommin the power to one-shot Nomi Sunrider telepathically, dominate millions of Iziz citizens, overwhelm and dominate Arca Jeth and drain the entire Jedi group of their Force powers whilst corrupting the entirety of Onderon as an effect of such powers? Check.

Dominating tens of thousands of Senators whilst dominating Vodo Siosk-Baas with his remaining reserves of Dark Side power so much the second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy didn't stand a chance? Check.

Being so vastly beyond a Jedi Ulic, who whilst massively hindered nigh-blitzed an amped Dark Jedi Warrior in Warb Null, who can normally react almost as fast as thought.

Being vastly more powerful than the amped Spirit of Freedon Nadd who can one-shot Vodo Siosk-Baas with telepathy from the other side of the galaxy.

Being far more powerful than Marka Ragnos who is nigh-invulnerable in combat.

Being far more powerful than Ajunta Pall who could dominate and enthrall the entire Sith species.

Being far more powerful than Karness Muur who was canonically more powerful than either Vong Krayt or 19BBY Vader.

Being more powerful than pre-Revan Vitiate, prior to most of his power growth.

The list goes on and Caedus isn't winning.

There's also Ragnos' "most powerful of the most powerful" quote, but I agree that his quotes of supremacy are all ambiguous and up for interpretation.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Power and Strength being two of the three primary factors. Quite, power and strength having a number of connotations, where it would be redundant if they were referring to the same thing.

Like I say darl, back to the drawing board.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohfFxUyV4QpyyxzP2/giphy.gif

Originally posted by SunRazer
I agree that his quotes of supremacy are all ambiguous and up for interpretation. Except for

Forgot which thread this is.

Yeah; agreed. Kun > Ragnos.

Yeah, but greatest may or may not refer to power. Or power alone, as has been discussed in this thread.

Caedus

Kun, it's close though.

Caedus stomps

Caedus

Kun's unamped force feats are extremely unimpressive.

Depends on starting distance.

Caedus wins.

^

It's up for debate whether or not Kun's > Vader (although I'm sure he is).

It's not up for debate whether or not Caedus is.

he already broke character...