Wasted movie potential

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TheVaultDweller
Inspired by the worst movies ever thread, this one is slightly different. These aren't necessarily the worst movies around, but instead movies that did not live up to their potential. So, it can be an average movie that could have been good, or even a good movie that could have been truly great. Of course, bad movies that could have been better are also welcome.

So, which films ended up falling short of what they could have been?

tkitna
Batman Versus Superman

Dreampanther
Man on Fire with Denzel Washington. Really enjoyed it up until just before the end. I still don't understand why they decided to change the original story's ending. I can only assume Hollywood wanted to try and use their film to create a message that violence is bad or live by the gun, die by it or some such ridiculously stupid sentimental nonsense.

Anyway, if they had stuck to the original story Man on Fire would have been one of my favourite movies. As it is, when it's on I tend to watch only the middle part and then switch to something else.

Firefly218
Originally posted by tkitna
Batman Versus Superman Don't forget Man of Steel and Suicide Squad

jaden101
Pretty much every video game movie ever

jinXed by JaNx
Arrival. Beautiful movie but terrible script.

MF DELPH
The Matrix Revolutions, and the property overall due to it. The Matrix, The Matrix Reloaded, and The Animatrix were all dope IMO and set up a great lore where if the climax of the trilogy knocked it out of the park prequels showing the time period where the machines rebelled, the war, the previous versions of the Matrix, and a post-Neo world with a new "The One" would have had immense audience demand and support. Instead it became a bad omen of the things to come from the Wachowskis.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Arrival. Beautiful movie but terrible script.

Weirdest f-ing looking aliens ever!

And yeah if the aliens were from the future & knew their fate rested on humanity's actions...why the hell didn't they just simplify the whole dam communication problem?

Surtur
Originally posted by MF DELPH
The Matrix Revolutions, and the property overall due to it. The Matrix, The Matrix Reloaded, and The Animatrix were all dope IMO and set up a great lore where if the climax of the trilogy knocked it out of the park prequels showing the time period where the machines rebelled, the war, the previous versions of the Matrix, and a post-Neo world with a new "The One" would have had immense audience demand and support. Instead it became a bad omen of the things to come from the Wachowskis.

I really don't like Revolutions at all, the only cool part is where Neo fights Smith at the end. The videogame where you play as Neo gave us a more satisfying ending than the movies did.

For Reloaded, I'm..meh on it. I think it started off really well and kinda dipped a bit in quality as it went on. The "Merovingian" was kinda silly. Also the "Architect" was kinda silly as well.

Dreampanther
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Weirdest f-ing looking aliens ever!

And yeah if the aliens were from the future & knew their fate rested on humanity's actions...why the hell didn't they just simplify the whole dam communication problem?

Because in order for humans to advance to the level where we would be of any help, we had to learn a new way of thinking, not just a new language. We had to see the universe the way they saw it - where you see time all at once, instead of linear.

You can't just tell somebody how to swim or how to ride a bike and then expect them to do a triathlon.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by MF DELPH
The Matrix Revolutions...

Nope. In context of the rest of the Trilogy it's very good. They drew from philosophy and literature motifs. It's brilliant. Are there too many characters? Yeah, maybe... but they were inspired by stories like LOTR and no one complains about too much shit going on in those movies.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Dreampanther
Because in order for humans to advance to the level where we would be of any help, we had to learn a new way of thinking, not just a new language. We had to see the universe the way they saw it - where you see time all at once, instead of linear.

You can't just tell somebody how to swim or how to ride a bike and then expect them to do a triathlon.

I fully understood all that...juz thought there was a lot of faith placed on one person who was mentally unhinged to decipher all that.

MF DELPH
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Weirdest f-ing looking aliens ever!

And yeah if the aliens were from the future & knew their fate rested on humanity's actions...why the hell didn't they just simplify the whole dam communication problem?

The aliens weren't from the future. Their language changes the user's perception of time, so when you grew up speaking it as the Heptpods did you would perceive the past, present, and future all at the same time. A linear chain of events was foreign to them. That's why when Amy Adams' character started to learn their language she started having lucid dreams about moments from her past and future and then eventually was able to use information she learned in the future in the present in an awoken state. The language reconfigured the speaker's temporal perception.

MF DELPH
Originally posted by Surtur
I really don't like Revolutions at all, the only cool part is where Neo fights Smith at the end. The videogame where you play as Neo gave us a more satisfying ending than the movies did.

For Reloaded, I'm..meh on it. I think it started off really well and kinda dipped a bit in quality as it went on. The "Merovingian" was kinda silly. Also the "Architect" was kinda silly as well.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Nope. In context of the rest of the Trilogy it's very good. They drew from philosophy and literature motifs. It's brilliant. Are there too many characters? Yeah, maybe... but they were inspired by stories like LOTR and no one complains about too much shit going on in those movies.

What I liked about the Matrix Reloaded is that it set up more things to potentially explore in future films. We learn that The Matrix which Neo and Morpheus inhabit wasn't the first version of it. We learn that there were previous Neos. We learn that even amongst the Machines/Programs there is rebellion and criminality. They introduce the character of Sarif who appears to be some kind of security program. They introduce characters like the Keymaker and the Merovingian and his goons that show that within the Matrix there are other characters with special abilities who are not Agents. They introduce the concept of Agent Smith being able to overwrite and control humans in the real world. And they also reveal that the Oracle was a program. All of that was fertile ground to expand upon. On top of that in the Animatrix they had "The Second Rennaissance Part I & II" which gave some very interesting details about the world leading up to the Human/Machine War that could have spawned a trilogy of films in of itself. Revolutions and it's poor execution killed all the momentum and potential the franchise had been building. We haven't gotten any new Matrix media in over a decade now because of how poorly received (and executed) Revolutions was. By contrast with the LotR comparison that vehicle was actually brought back for a second prequel trilogy because The Two Towers and The Return of the King actually accomplished what they set out to do and were well received. The Matrix had the potential to be a contemporary expanded universe akin to Star Trek and Star Wars.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by MF DELPH
What I liked about the Matrix Reloaded is that it set up more things to potentially explore in future films. We learn that The Matrix which Neo and Morpheus inhabit wasn't the first version of it. We learn that there were previous Neos. We learn that even amongst the Machines/Programs there is rebellion and criminality. They introduce the character of Sarif who appears to be some kind of security program. They introduce characters like the Keymaker and the Merovingian and his goons that show that within the Matrix there are other characters with special abilities who are not Agents. They introduce the concept of Agent Smith being able to overwrite and control humans in the real world. And they also reveal that the Oracle was a program. All of that was fertile ground to expand upon. On top of that in the Animatrix they had "The Second Rennaissance Part I & II" which gave some very interesting details about the world leading up to the Human/Machine War that could have spawned a trilogy of films in of itself. Revolutions and it's poor execution killed all the momentum and potential the franchise had been building. We haven't gotten any new Matrix media in over a decade now because of how poorly received (and executed) Revolutions was. By contrast with the LotR comparison that vehicle was actually brought back for a second prequel trilogy because The Two Towers and The Return of the King actually accomplished what they set out to do and were well received. The Matrix had the potential to be a contemporary expanded universe akin to Star Trek and Star Wars.

Agree to disagree. It was never intended to be a never-ending franchise. They conceived it as a Trilogy and as such it is a brilliant work. I think only recently because WB is probably struggling and wanting to keep up with Marvel I read that the Wachowskis were actually approached about doing more Matrix films. I read that probably a couple years ago.

Surtur
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Nope. In context of the rest of the Trilogy it's very good. They drew from philosophy and literature motifs. It's brilliant. Are there too many characters? Yeah, maybe... but they were inspired by stories like LOTR and no one complains about too much shit going on in those movies.

In context? Huh? It's good because they drew from philosophy? A little too much IMO. It's like they took a college course on philosophy after making the first Matrix and decided to go with it.

Surtur
Originally posted by MF DELPH
What I liked about the Matrix Reloaded is that it set up more things to potentially explore in future films. We learn that The Matrix which Neo and Morpheus inhabit wasn't the first version of it. We learn that there were previous Neos. We learn that even amongst the Machines/Programs there is rebellion and criminality. They introduce the character of Sarif who appears to be some kind of security program. They introduce characters like the Keymaker and the Merovingian and his goons that show that within the Matrix there are other characters with special abilities who are not Agents. They introduce the concept of Agent Smith being able to overwrite and control humans in the real world. And they also reveal that the Oracle was a program. All of that was fertile ground to expand upon. On top of that in the Animatrix they had "The Second Rennaissance Part I & II" which gave some very interesting details about the world leading up to the Human/Machine War that could have spawned a trilogy of films in of itself. Revolutions and it's poor execution killed all the momentum and potential the franchise had been building. We haven't gotten any new Matrix media in over a decade now because of how poorly received (and executed) Revolutions was. By contrast with the LotR comparison that vehicle was actually brought back for a second prequel trilogy because The Two Towers and The Return of the King actually accomplished what they set out to do and were well received. The Matrix had the potential to be a contemporary expanded universe akin to Star Trek and Star Wars.

This is true and I understand it, it does give you a lot more insight into the universe at hand. Of course that is one reason why the third film was such a bummer because it had so much potential. Yeah, the Animatrix was awesome too.

But at least it gave us the cool Neo video game. I remember at one point being really excited about an online Matrix game. I don't think it ever came out though.

TheVaultDweller
One thing that I found interesting in the Matrix was from I think a conversation with the Merovingian, about how things like werewolves and such were in fact older Exile programs.

Surtur
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
One thing that I found interesting in the Matrix was from I think a conversation with the Merovingian, about how things like werewolves and such were in fact older Exile programs.

Yeah, and there is another video game(it's awful) but you fight vampires in the Matrix as well. It's the game where Jada Pinkett Smiths character is one of the playable characters.

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah, and there is another video game(it's awful) but you fight vampires in the Matrix as well. It's the game where Jada Pinkett Smiths character is one of the playable characters.

Enter the Matrix. I only played a bit of it. I don't remember much, other than that the vehicle/driving mechanics were some of the worst in any game I have ever played.

Surtur
Yeah, "The Path of Neo" video game thankfully made up for it. I still have it on PC.

Surtur
Oh well here is some massively massively wasted potential: Avatar. The airbender, not the one with aliens.

If done right it could have been a cool movie and potentially a trilogy, but nope..they f*cked it up.

TheVaultDweller
I am also going to throw one out there that some people might have issues with, but that's just how I feel about it: Age of Ultron. It's not a bad movie by any means. But I feel like it just retread a lot of the same stuff from the first Avengers film. It could have been really great, like the first one was, but it didn't quite live up to its predecessor. And like I said, this isn't just a thread for bad films. Average to good films can also be mentioned if people feel that they could have been even better.

Surtur
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am also going to throw one out there that some people might have issues with, but that's just how I feel about it: Age of Ultron. It's not a bad movie by any means. But I feel like it just retread a lot of the same stuff from the first Avengers film. It could have been really great, like the first one was, but it didn't quite live up to its predecessor. And like I said, this isn't just a thread for bad films. Average to good films can also be mentioned if people feel that they could have been even better.

I agree. Also suddenly they just drop storylines on you. Like hey Hulk and Black Widow have a romance now because..I don't know.

steverules_2
The live action transformer films, they had potential because it's transformers but they chose Bay to direct

TheVaultDweller
Yet most of us will probably watch the next one in the cinemas, and it will still likely break a billion at the box office.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yet most of us will probably watch the next one in the cinemas, and it will still likely break a billion at the box office.

Yeah, what the hell is wrong with you people? Just stop already.

TethAdamTheRock
What was wrong with Man Of Steel?

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yeah, what the hell is wrong with you people? Just stop already.

I think most of us are trapped in that "maybe the next one will be better" mindset. laughing

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I think most of us are trapped in that "maybe the next one will be better" mindset. laughing

Fool you once shame on them, fool you 6 times shame on YOU!

MF DELPH
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
What was wrong with Man Of Steel?


Everything after the Kal/Faora fight in Smallville. Act 3 was flaming turds.

Surtur
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yet most of us will probably watch the next one in the cinemas, and it will still likely break a billion at the box office.

Nah I'll wait for it to hit Netflix or something.

MF DELPH
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am also going to throw one out there that some people might have issues with, but that's just how I feel about it: Age of Ultron. It's not a bad movie by any means. But I feel like it just retread a lot of the same stuff from the first Avengers film. It could have been really great, like the first one was, but it didn't quite live up to its predecessor. And like I said, this isn't just a thread for bad films. Average to good films can also be mentioned if people feel that they could have been even better.

thumb up

That wasted potential is compounded by the fact that Ultron plays a major part in Annihilation: Conquest. If the MCU ever gets around to adapting that post Infinity War they've already shot themselves in the foot.

marwash22
'Passengers'

i recently watched that movie, and although it wasn't a shit movie, I felt like it could have been much better. They could have made it a really good thriller with the guy being a total creep, but instead the writers half-stepped and made to a romance.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by marwash22
'Passengers'

i recently watched that movie, and although it wasn't a shit movie, I felt like it could have been much better. They could have made it a really good thriller with the guy being a total creep, but instead the writers half-stepped and made to a romance.

I disagree. I actually rather enjoyed the film. The sets and production design were phenomenal. Makes me want to go on a Space Cruise.

Impediment
Sin City: A Dame to Kill For.

Surtur
The Star Wars prequels.

steverules_2
Originally posted by marwash22
'Passengers'

i recently watched that movie, and although it wasn't a shit movie, I felt like it could have been much better. They could have made it a really good thriller with the guy being a total creep, but instead the writers half-stepped and made to a romance.

Me and my friend enjoyed it

marwash22
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I disagree. I actually rather enjoyed the film. The sets and production design were phenomenal. Makes me want to go on a Space Cruise. i didn't say anything about the production values of the film, my issues with it were script-related.

a visually stunning movie with a mismanaged story is an even bigger affront to me.

Robtard
Mouth has a very good point, imo. If they had turned it from a sappy romance into a psychological thriller midway through where Pratt's character suddenly isn't just a nice lonely guy looking for a human connection, but a dangerous creep in disguise, it could have been a much better film. The bait-n-switch.

edit: Something like 'What Lies Beneath' (2000), to the backdrop of a space ship.

marwash22
Originally posted by steverules_2
Me and my friend enjoyed it dude basically murders a woman because he was lonely, she gets pissed and wants to kill him, but doesn't, and then because their death becomes more imminent, she just completely forgets that he doomed her and resigns to die with him even though she had the option to go back to sleep.


you thought that was a good story?

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by Robtard
Mouth has a very good point, imo. If they had turned it from a sappy romance into a psychological thriller midway through where Pratt's character suddenly isn't just a nice lonely guy looking for a human connection, but a dangerous creep in disguise, it could have been a much better film. The bait-n-switch.

Yeah, see, I wouldn't like that twist. I guess I watch so many movies like that that I enjoyed a more charming Romance in space quite nicely. That kind of stuff has been done so much anyway, with Topher Grace's character in Predators (I hated that stupid twist) and the movie was so much like Pandorum that it needed to take a different angle.

marwash22
Originally posted by Robtard
Mouth has a very good point, imo. If they had turned it from a sappy romance into a psychological thriller midway through where Pratt's character suddenly isn't just a nice lonely guy looking for a human connection, but a dangerous creep in disguise, it could have been a much better film. The bait-n-switch.

edit: Something like 'What Lies Beneath' (2000), to the backdrop of a space ship. thumb up


'Fatal Attraction' or 'Swimfan' in Space.

Robtard
Haven't seen Fatal Attraction in a very long time, but didn't we know that ***** was crazy-cray from the start?

steverules_2
Originally posted by marwash22
dude basically murders a woman because he was lonely, she gets pissed and wants to kill him, but doesn't, and then because their death becomes more imminent, she just completely forgets that he doomed her and resigns to die with him even though she had the option to go back to sleep.


you thought that was a good story?

I enjoyed it yeah

Coulda worked as a thriller sure but that didn't stop me enjoying it

John Murdoch
Originally posted by tkitna
Batman Versus Superman

Even though I'm in the minority on KMC of liking it quite a bit, it could've been the superhero movie to end all superhero movies if the script and editing weren't, admittedly, pretty whack. Being a big fan of Man of Steel, Zack Snyder, the comic book lore that inspired the murky plot, and the cinematography made it worthwhile to me, IMO.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Nope. In context of the rest of the Trilogy it's very good. They drew from philosophy and literature motifs. It's brilliant. Are there too many characters? Yeah, maybe... but they were inspired by stories like LOTR and no one complains about too much shit going on in those movies.
Agreed, Leech. The Wachowskis spoon-fed a bit too much philosophy to us, the audience, in Revolutions, but I still feel it is a very good film and ending to the trilogy.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Man on Fire with Denzel Washington. Really enjoyed it up until just before the end. I still don't understand why they decided to change the original story's ending. I can only assume Hollywood wanted to try and use their film to create a message that violence is bad or live by the gun, die by it or some such ridiculously stupid sentimental nonsense.

Anyway, if they had stuck to the original story Man on Fire would have been one of my favourite movies. As it is, when it's on I tend to watch only the middle part and then switch to something else.
Can I ask how the book ended? IMO, Man on Fire is both Denzel's and Tony Scott's finest two hours on film.

John Murdoch
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am also going to throw one out there that some people might have issues with, but that's just how I feel about it: Age of Ultron. It's not a bad movie by any means. But I feel like it just retread a lot of the same stuff from the first Avengers film. It could have been really great, like the first one was, but it didn't quite live up to its predecessor. And like I said, this isn't just a thread for bad films. Average to good films can also be mentioned if people feel that they could have been even better.

Also, agree here as well, even though I'd say the first Avengers was a smashing success because all the characters came together for the first time and their dialogue and interactions with one another were just SO on point. Whedon did a great job with his material. However, it's pretty much Independence Day with superheroes. Age of Ultron could've been a much better movie had Whedon been given more creative control and Disney not wanted to set up the Phase 3 individual movies in the big team-up show-stopper of Phase 2.

marwash22
Originally posted by Robtard
Haven't seen Fatal Attraction in a very long time, but didn't we know that ***** was crazy-cray from the start? for sure. i just meant in terms of the theme of the movie, not the twist aspect.

John Murdoch
Although I wasn't excited to see the movie at all, the final product sucked so bad I left my living room whilst watching the Netflix rented DVD: Cars 2.

All Pixar had to do was take Lightning McQueen and friends to a world Grand Tour racing-type event. Instead, they made Mater meet discount James Bond, the car. Biggest blight on Pixar's record to date by far.

tkitna
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
What was wrong with Man Of Steel?

I don't feel like typing a book. Better question is, what was right about it?

Dr Will Hatch
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Weirdest f-ing looking aliens ever!

And yeah if the aliens were from the future & knew their fate rested on humanity's actions...why the hell didn't they just simplify the whole dam communication problem?

Because free will doesn't exist in Arrival's version of reality.

Dr Will Hatch
The Purge- The definition of wasted potential. Those movies could have been brilliant, but even the best one in the series, Anarchy, is only passable.

BruceSkywalker
the dceu

Dreampanther
Originally posted by John Murdoch
Can I ask how the book ended? IMO, Man on Fire is both Denzel's and Tony Scott's finest two hours on film.

Two major changes that changed the tone completely, imo.

1) Pinta wasn't "miraculously" still alive and unharmed after weeks and weeks of captivity. She was found dead in a car, suffocated on her own vomit. She had also been repeatedly raped by her captors (hence my derisive "Hollywood ending" comments).

2) This meant that Creasy didn't just get out of hospital to start hunting them down. Like the mercenary he was, with decades of experience and training, he mapped out a campaign to wipe them out. All of them.

http://i.imgur.com/zZHwwOW.jpg

Thus:

His best friend and long-time mercenary partner, Guido (not in the movie, though Walken's character is based on him) arranges a place for him to stay on an island in Malta and he goes off to rebuild his strength, regain his skills and lay out his plans.

Due to the connection he had with Pinta, he finds himself able to experience love again and slowly falls in love with a woman, Nadia, while on the island. She knows about Pinta and his plans and supports him. When he's ready, he leaves her and starts his war:

Everything he does, every kidnapper and enforcer he finds, extracts information from, blows up, executes - is all designed to do one thing: Terrify the guy at the top to the point where he decides the only thing to do is hole up in his base, built like a fort and guarded like a prison.

This is exactly what Creasy wants. The one thing they never fought was somebody like him. He is not a tough guy from the streets with a grudge. He is not an assassin. He didn't do covert ops. He is one of the deadliest soldiers alive, with decades of military experience in some of the worst places on earth, used to full-on assaults.

Now, picture this guy, doing a HALO drop late at night, stocked up on ammo, with grenades, submachine guns, assault rifle...

http://i.imgur.com/fPvFQoo.jpg

Then imagine what happened when he dropped into the middle of a fortress, facing guys whose experience consists of bullying shop owners and kidnapping children. They had nowhere to run. They had nowhere to hide. They had never been in a war before.

The book ends with an epilogue, where Creasy returns to the island, wounded (everyone thinks he's dead) and finds Nadia waiting for him with news: She's pregnant.

Surtur
Originally posted by tkitna
I don't feel like typing a book. Better question is, what was right about it?

I didn't find it so bad. Was it spectacular? No, but the only part that truly made me cringe is when Johnathan Kent lets a tornado kill him for no actual reason.

I loved that they had the balls to have Superman just full on kill a guy. Also at least it wasn't like on Smallville when Clark killed someone in a way that he could have easily just avoided doing it, but Zod in the movie clearly wasn't going to stop until he was dead.

tkitna
Originally posted by Surtur
No, but the only part that truly made me cringe is when Johnathan Kent lets a tornado kill him for no actual reason.


That was ridiculous.

How about Jor-el? The dude dies, but yet appears 100 more times in the movie helping Clark and Lois. Stupid. Die already for cripes sake.

Speaking of Jor-el, what about the dragon he was riding around on? Is this a Superman movie of Game Of Thrones?

Amy Adams as Lois. Puke.

The great villain and military leader Zod who constantly got his ass kicked. First by the formidable scientist Jor-el and then by Clark who's never thrown a punch in his life. Yeah Zod was more laughable than terrifying.

Superman snapping the neck of the villain and killing him. Are you serious? Its Superman. He overcomes and finds a way, but no, he just murders the bad guy. Could they have gone any further away from the character than that?


I remember seeing this movie with my son and buddy (whos a huge Superman fanboy) and when we walked out he said, 'man that movie sucked didnt it'. He couldnt have been more right. Just awful. I think its the worst movie in the entire DCEU to be honest.

Ridley_Prime
I liked Russel Crowe as Jor-El, but to each their own.

Kal had been on earth longer than Zod and thus was more accustomed to his powers. Of course he was gonna win. Zod came off as the better fighter otherwise though, at least to me.

Chris Reeves Supes strangled his evil doppelganger to death in Superman III, and sent Zod and his gang plummeting to their deaths at the fortress of solitude in II. Still not seeing why the neck snap's such an issue. Zod clearly wasn't gonna stop till he was dead as pointed out, and there was no magic mirror to throw him in.

Note: I don't see MoS as some good movie, but the other DCU films so far sadly make it look great by comparison.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Note: I don't see MoS as some good movie, but the other DCU films so far sadly make it look great by comparison.

This. That is sad.

tkitna
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Kal had been on earth longer than Zod and thus was more accustomed to his powers. Of course he was gonna win. Zod came off as the better fighter otherwise though, at least to me.


Jor-el is a scientist and beat the hell out of him though. It just didnt make sense.



I guess you could throw a dart at that crap sandwich and anybody would have an argument regardless of where it landed.

Todd1700
Originally posted by Surtur
The Star Wars prequels.

This would be my pick as well. Never forget seeing TPM and watching a rowdy opening night crowd go from totally psyched to stunned silence as the realization of how bad it was set in. It was like expecting the mailman to hand you a check for a million dollars from Publishers Clearing House and instead it turns out to be a letter from your doctor saying you have cancer.

Impediment
Originally posted by Robtard
Haven't seen Fatal Attraction in a very long time, but didn't we know that ***** was crazy-cray from the start?

Only sperm burping prostate jockeys say "cray".

Stop it.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Todd1700
This would be my pick as well. Never forget seeing TPM and watching a rowdy opening night crowd go from totally psyched to stunned silence as the realization of how bad it was set in. It was like expecting the mailman to hand you a check for a million dollars from Publishers Clearing House and instead it turns out to be a letter from your doctor saying you have cancer. I lold.

Surtur
Originally posted by Todd1700
This would be my pick as well. Never forget seeing TPM and watching a rowdy opening night crowd go from totally psyched to stunned silence as the realization of how bad it was set in. It was like expecting the mailman to hand you a check for a million dollars from Publishers Clearing House and instead it turns out to be a letter from your doctor saying you have cancer.

Lol yeah, and then I remember Conan O'Brien sending Triumph the dog to a premiere of "Attack of the Clones". One of those premieres where you had fans camped out and shit waiting. It shows some people re-enacting the Phantom Menace lol, and they look silly as hell. Especially one part where they are mimicking the part where the jedis are swimming.

1RGohIKxc9M

"Who wants to hear a spoiler? You will die alone".

John Murdoch
Originally posted by Dreampanther
Two major changes that changed the tone completely, imo.

1) Pinta wasn't "miraculously" still alive and unharmed after weeks and weeks of captivity. She was found dead in a car, suffocated on her own vomit. She had also been repeatedly raped by her captors (hence my derisive "Hollywood ending" comments).

2) This meant that Creasy didn't just get out of hospital to start hunting them down. Like the mercenary he was, with decades of experience and training, he mapped out a campaign to wipe them out. All of them.

http://i.imgur.com/zZHwwOW.jpg

Thus:

His best friend and long-time mercenary partner, Guido (not in the movie, though Walken's character is based on him) arranges a place for him to stay on an island in Malta and he goes off to rebuild his strength, regain his skills and lay out his plans.

Due to the connection he had with Pinta, he finds himself able to experience love again and slowly falls in love with a woman, Nadia, while on the island. She knows about Pinta and his plans and supports him. When he's ready, he leaves her and starts his war:

Everything he does, every kidnapper and enforcer he finds, extracts information from, blows up, executes - is all designed to do one thing: Terrify the guy at the top to the point where he decides the only thing to do is hole up in his base, built like a fort and guarded like a prison.

This is exactly what Creasy wants. The one thing they never fought was somebody like him. He is not a tough guy from the streets with a grudge. He is not an assassin. He didn't do covert ops. He is one of the deadliest soldiers alive, with decades of military experience in some of the worst places on earth, used to full-on assaults.

Now, picture this guy, doing a HALO drop late at night, stocked up on ammo, with grenades, submachine guns, assault rifle...

http://i.imgur.com/fPvFQoo.jpg

Then imagine what happened when he dropped into the middle of a fortress, facing guys whose experience consists of bullying shop owners and kidnapping children. They had nowhere to run. They had nowhere to hide. They had never been in a war before.

The book ends with an epilogue, where Creasy returns to the island, wounded (everyone thinks he's dead) and finds Nadia waiting for him with news: She's pregnant.

Thanks, Dreampanther. I need to check out the book.

I'm a huge fan of what the finished movie product was, but I understand you're frustration coming from the book reader's side of things. That's a lot of changes.

John Murdoch
I'll throw X-Men: The Last Stand as well. A sign that Fox did not understand the X-Men at all, butchering the Phoenix Saga and not even giving us the classic Juggernaut vs Colossus showdown when it had a perfect opportunity to do so.

TheOneFirestorm
Double Dragon
It could have been like Marked for Death or the original TMNT but likely brutal violence plus the common objective of to rescue a damsel. Usually 1 hero but for this movie it would be 2 heroes to rescue the beautiful damsel but also having to fight a ruthless Syndicate that is creating terror in most of the Metropolis City.
That wasn't asking for a miracle it's something that easily could have been made resembling the original amazing. arcade
game.

Instead the notorious Hollywood of hugely alter a movie so much that it barely resembles the video game that the movie is based on didn't fail as this was a very unfaithful adaptation as most feature hollywood video game movies are.

It be topnotch if Hollywood decided to actually reboot this movie with a faithful adaptation.
Movies that can be good or great should be remade and this movie is in that category as no doubt it can be a great hardcore action movie.

Slowpoke
Independence Day 2 could have been much better, man what a HUGE disappointment.

Ridley_Prime
Originally posted by TheOneFirestorm
Double Dragon
It could have been like Marked for Death or the original TMNT but likely brutal violence plus the common objective of to rescue a damsel. Usually 1 hero but for this movie it would be 2 heroes to rescue the beautiful damsel but also having to fight a ruthless Syndicate that is creating terror in most of the Metropolis City.
That wasn't asking for a miracle it's something that easily could have been made resembling the original amazing. arcade
game.

Instead the notorious Hollywood of hugely alter a movie so much that it barely resembles the video game that the movie is based on didn't fail as this was a very unfaithful adaptation as most feature hollywood video game movies are.

It be topnotch if Hollywood decided to actually reboot this movie with a faithful adaptation.
Movies that can be good or great should be remade and this movie is in that category as no doubt it can be a great hardcore action movie.
It would take nothing short of a Double Dragon Neon kind of miracle reboot, but man, one can dream.

John Murdoch
Upvotes to Double Dragon and ID4:2 confused

Patient_Leech
A movie I saw a few weeks ago called The Autopsy of Jane Doe. It was a really cool premise and really well done, but I really think they should have gone back to the drawing board while writing to explore much more potential and get rid of some kind of silly and predictable twists.

It's a shame because it really was well done and a fun concept.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Impediment
Sin City: A Dame to Kill For.

thumb up

thumb up

thumb up

That movie was a huge let down...

And its a shame because they knocked it out the part with the original Sin City; the characters were extremely likable...the script writing was excellent...and the story was very immersive.

I have no idea what happened with A Dame to Kill For; it somehow lost everything that made the 1st one great...

TheLordofMurder
I loved and still love MoS btw...

Russel was the perfect Jor El...

Loved Zod and Faora...

The "Flight" part was awesome and IMHO really captured the "feel" of Superman...

The fight screens were amazing...

Loved the opening sequence while on Krypton...

MoS was easily the strongest of the DC Cinematic Universe films, but thats just my opinion...


Maybe some of you need some reminding; check out "Flight" and tell that this wasnt well done; the feel of it...the music...it implied strongly that Superman was the greatest being on Earth without stating it a single time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5pRYuI3etc

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I have no idea what happened with A Dame to Kill For; it somehow lost everything that made the 1st one great...

Yeah, I love the first one, too. I don't understand what happened there either. confused sad

relentless1
Originally posted by Dreampanther
Man on Fire with Denzel Washington. Really enjoyed it up until just before the end. I still don't understand why they decided to change the original story's ending. I can only assume Hollywood wanted to try and use their film to create a message that violence is bad or live by the gun, die by it or some such ridiculously stupid sentimental nonsense.

Anyway, if they had stuck to the original story Man on Fire would have been one of my favourite movies. As it is, when it's on I tend to watch only the middle part and then switch to something else.

whats the original ending?

relentless1
Star Wars episode 1 and 2.

SOOO much potential down the drain with those two films. 3 was great because of Palpatine, Clone Wars, Jedi deaths, Vader rising and all that but 1 and 2 shouldve been Clone Wars proper; push the love story to tertiary plot, Darth Maul shouldve lived and no kid anakin!

relentless1
Originally posted by tkitna
That was ridiculous.

How about Jor-el? The dude dies, but yet appears 100 more times in the movie helping Clark and Lois. Stupid. Die already for cripes sake.

Speaking of Jor-el, what about the dragon he was riding around on? Is this a Superman movie of Game Of Thrones?

Amy Adams as Lois. Puke.

The great villain and military leader Zod who constantly got his ass kicked. First by the formidable scientist Jor-el and then by Clark who's never thrown a punch in his life. Yeah Zod was more laughable than terrifying.

Superman snapping the neck of the villain and killing him. Are you serious? Its Superman. He overcomes and finds a way, but no, he just murders the bad guy. Could they have gone any further away from the character than that?


I remember seeing this movie with my son and buddy (whos a huge Superman fanboy) and when we walked out he said, 'man that movie sucked didnt it'. He couldnt have been more right. Just awful. I think its the worst movie in the entire DCEU to be honest.

so basically youre own opinion on it.... nobody cares

Dreampanther
Originally posted by relentless1
whats the original ending?

See above.

Kazenji
Originally posted by relentless1

, Darth Maul shouldve lived and no kid anakin!

huh

But Darth Maul has lived.

Ridley_Prime
I think he meant having Maul back in the prequel trilogy after TPM, as not everyone knows Maul from Clone Wars/Rebels.

Or something. Regardless, movie Maul was wasted potential.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Kazenji
huh

But Darth Maul has lived.


But DID He?



eek!

Kazenji
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I think he meant having Maul back in the prequel trilogy after TPM, as not everyone knows Maul from Clone Wars/Rebels.


and also most folks don't watch those shows, Consider them more for kids

Originally posted by Flyattractor


But DID He?



eek!

smh....not fooling me

Ridley_Prime
Originally posted by Kazenji
and also most folks don't watch those shows, Consider them more for kids
Oddly enough TPM was actually far more kiddy than the shows, but I guess it gets more of a pass from the casual audience/fans due to being one of the main live action films, so... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Ascendancy
A recent one that I just bumped up: Triple 9. So much left on the table.

Lots of good picks in here already, though I don't agree with MoS. Other than his father dying for no reason and Supes helping to lay waste to the city he just saved--wow--it was an incredible film. Why they didn't do a sequel to introduce more characters and to give Batman a real reason to come after him I don't know.

All the X-men films before First Class. They were okay, but none of them were as great as they could have been for various reasons.

The entire SW prequel trilogy. The Hobbit trilogy as well.

TheOneFirestorm
Freddy vs Jason
What should have been a epic movie of 2 Horror iconic villains that both started in the 80s both fighting instead the damn fight is a very low amount which is extremely dumb because it's freakin called Freddy vs Jason.
Also extremely dumb Jason is afraid of water if I recall right not in the dream world. Do the writers pay any damn attention to the Friday the 13th movies because Jason after becoming the large murderer isn't afraid of the water. Clearly shown because He swam to get on a boat and to NYC in a terrible sequel, etc.

Add in also extremely dumb it ends on a damn cliffhanger so it's obvious a stalemate which us intentionally done because either they couldn't think of a logical conclusion for a winner, or they could but didn't want to piss off 1 group of fans.

So instead most of what is shown isn't Jason fighting Freddy instead the lives of teenagers, Freddy gaining power so he can terrorize, Jason killing persons plus manipulated by Freddy, etc.

tkitna
Originally posted by relentless1
so basically youre own opinion on it.... nobody cares

Look, somebody's butthurt.

Lestov16
Batman vs Superman. I loved:
The philosophical battle of God forced to obey man vs man able to act like God
Supes vs Bats
Team vs Doomsday
Lex Luthor blowing up the Senate, forcing the BVS fight, and creating Doomsday to fight Supes

I hated:
The disjointed narrative
No scene of the inciting incident of African kid being killed by collateral damage
Forced world building including pointless Batman dream sequence and Flash cameo (and technically the JL cameo, which wouldn't have been pointless of Batman rather than WE saw it)
Lex Luthors lame ass ending scene with the Dings
Lex Luthor sending a jar of piss as a prelude to a terrorist attack
Lex Luthor creating Doomsday with no logical reasoning

Good potential wasted

John Murdoch
Originally posted by Lestov16
Batman vs Superman. I loved:
The philosophical battle of God forced to obey man vs man able to act like God
Supes vs Bats
Team vs Doomsday
Lex Luthor blowing up the Senate, forcing the BVS fight, and creating Doomsday to fight Supes

I hated:
The disjointed narrative
No scene of the inciting incident of African kid being killed by collateral damage
Forced world building including pointless Batman dream sequence and Flash cameo (and technically the JL cameo, which wouldn't have been pointless of Batman rather than WE saw it)
Lex Luthors lame ass ending scene with the Dings
Lex Luthor sending a jar of piss as a prelude to a terrorist attack
Lex Luthor creating Doomsday with no logical reasoning

Good potential wasted

BvS is the epitome of wasted potential.


On a side note, really hoping Ghost in the Shell doesn't join this thread in a week.

John Murdoch
Originally posted by Ascendancy
A recent one that I just bumped up: Triple 9. So much left on the table.

Lots of good picks in here already, though I don't agree with MoS. Other than his father dying for no reason and Supes helping to lay waste to the city he just saved--wow--it was an incredible film. Why they didn't do a sequel to introduce more characters and to give Batman a real reason to come after him I don't know.

All the X-men films before First Class. They were okay, but none of them were as great as they could have been for various reasons.

The entire SW prequel trilogy. The Hobbit trilogy as well.

Haven't seen Triple 9, but agree with everything else.

Kazenji
Originally posted by tkitna
Look, somebody's butthurt.

Nah....that's you

can't deal with some people like BvS, So lets mock them....real mature.

Ridley_Prime
Justice League.

Patient_Leech
Life (2017)

sad

tkitna
Originally posted by Kazenji
Nah....that's you

can't deal with some people like BvS, So lets mock them....real mature.

Your right. I really need to quit mocking those with bad taste.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Lestov16

The philosophical battle of God forced to obey man vs man able to act like God

Take a philosophy course and you might realize how hilariously stupid Lex's forced philosophy was my son.

"Dude God can't be both all good and all powerful because of evil, therefore Superman is bad."

"But Superman isn't actually God, he's not responsible for evil."

I'm smarter than Lex Luthor.

"Dude but Lex is the villain and he's insane cause his daddy was mean to him, and he blames Superman for it."

Whew lad, Luthor was stupid in that film.

Maybe you aren't actually familiar with comic books, but the "philosophical battle of a god forced to obey man vs. a man able to act like a god" is done much better in the actual comic books.

Read Lex Luthor: Man of Steel for a much more intelligent take on the characters (particularly of Luthor) and of their conflict.

Ridley_Prime
Now God can bleed!

eisenlex

Never thought I'd miss when someone as common/reoccurring as Lex was done well, but I really do. sad

John Murdoch
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Life (2017)

sad

Really? Haven't seen it but showed promise.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by John Murdoch
Really? Haven't seen it but showed promise.

Yeah, I elaborated in the Life thread...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=635621&pagenumber=2

Kazenji
Originally posted by tkitna
Your right. I really need to quit mocking those with bad taste.

different strokes for different folks

which you can't seem to get through your thick skull.

Ascendancy
The Spirit. Not sure why I forgot to mention this since people mentioned Dame, but so much wasted potential. The second 300 film wasn't wasted potential, but it definitely wasn't as good as it could have been.

tkitna
Originally posted by Kazenji
different strokes for different folks

which you can't seem to get through your thick skull.

Yeah me and the majority of the earths population.

Kazenji
roll eyes (sarcastic)

John Murdoch
Originally posted by Ascendancy
The Spirit. Not sure why I forgot to mention this since people mentioned Dame, but so much wasted potential. The second 300 film wasn't wasted potential, but it definitely wasn't as good as it could have been.

Agreed to all these as well: Rise of an Empire should have been much much better, and The Spirit was Sin City with all the good stuff about Sin City taken out.

Kazenji
What a hypocrite Frank Miller was with that movie, He complained people tampering with his work for Robocop 2 & 3.. Yet he goes and changes things with The Spirit.

Ridley_Prime
How dare you, Frank Miller is an infallible genius at everything he does!

John Murdoch
Originally posted by Kazenji
What a hypocrite Frank Miller was with that movie, He complained people tampering with his work for Robocop 2 & 3.. Yet he goes and changes things with The Spirit.

Yep I read up on that either before or after the movie was released. I remember one of the lesser (?) complaints being his trenchcoat was black instead of blue. That was a tip of the iceberg on the list of changes.

The trailer is still one of the best I've seen, compared to the actual movie, which was garbage IMO.

Ascendancy
Yes. The trailer for The Spirit made it look amazing, and add to that coming out after the Sin City hype. High off his own smug methinks.

Dr Will Hatch
Originally posted by Ascendancy
The Spirit. Not sure why I forgot to mention this since people mentioned Dame, but so much wasted potential. The second 300 film wasn't wasted potential, but it definitely wasn't as good as it could have been.

A Dame to Kill For was fine. It's just that nobody SAW the damn movie when it came out.

The Spirit is ass, though. That was like watching Frank Miller's incoherent absinthe dreams.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Justice League.

TheVaultDweller
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but all the Fantastic Four movies. Especially the latest one. I am still in a minority that doesn't hate the 2005 film, and would even call it a guilty pleasure. But Rise of the Silver Surfer and Fan4stic were horrendously bad, and all of them could have been great, considering all the source material and characters they had to draw on.

Ridley_Prime
For the latest F4, blame the bandwagon fallacy that anything being more grounded and gritty or dark automatically = better.

John Murdoch
Danjaq and MGM finally settle with Kevin McClory's estate in November 2013, and what do we get: Spectre. Don't get me wrong, it's in the top half of Bond films, and it's a gorgeous, beautifully-shot movie (especially the opening sequence and the train fight), but the third act is a big step down from the rest of the film, and


A) Why waste Christoph Waltz as Blofeld? Either cast a physically-imposing actor to be the massive muscle-bound genius from the books (think Telly Savalas), or have Waltz be more of a presence in the movie and not just a third act bad guy with a needless personal vendetta against Bond. Dr. No through On Her Majesty's Secret Service did it better: Blofeld wants to kill Bond/ruin his life because he keeps killing his agents. Boom. End o' story.
B) I can understand connecting Quantum to SPECTRE, but Raoul Silva should've been left alone. Makes no sense why a guy that went on a personal crusade against M would act the way he did if he was involved in a shadow government criminal organization. The power of lousy screenwriting and a computer connect-the-dots display wins the day however.

I still enjoyed the movie, but in terms of wasted movie potential, introducing James Bond's equivalent of the Joker in Ernst Stavro Blofeld in such a lazy way 28 years and one legal battle later since we saw him in For Your Eyes Only ranks up there at the top for me.

EDIT: Forgive me if spoilers are unnecessary.

Dr Will Hatch
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but all the Fantastic Four movies. Especially the latest one. I am still in a minority that doesn't hate the 2005 film, and would even call it a guilty pleasure. But Rise of the Silver Surfer and Fan4stic were horrendously bad, and all of them could have been great, considering all the source material and characters they had to draw on.


Agreed, and Michael Chicklis was honesty pretty fantastic as The Thing in both of the movies he played in.

Kazenji
At least those older Fantastic Four movies at least embraced the comics that they were based on it, Unlike with the 2015 which didn't seem to want to have anything to do with them.

John Murdoch
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Agreed, and Michael Chicklis was honesty pretty fantastic as The Thing in both of the movies he played in.

Yep his version of The Thing fighting an all-out brawl with Doom was pretty cool actually. Julian McMahon's "Uh oh! How is he here, I depowered him?!" facial expression when Thing busts through the wall and yells, "It's clobberin' time!" was a great comic book movie moment and following fight sequence. Fun popcorn movie.

Rise of the Silver Surfer was a worse popcorn movie.

I like some things about the concept and even execution of Fant4stic, and I don't think it's as bad as, well, just about everyone says it is. The third act is horrendous though.

TheOneFirestorm
End of Days (1999)
A extreme underachievement with Arnold as the hero fighting the ultimate Villain the Devil to prevent him from destroying the Earth.
It should have been a epic supernatural horror action movie instead it's a fiasco aka a colossal embarrassment a complete failure.
Arnold as the hero fighting the Devil doesn't happen that much, and when it does it's lame, and boring. Wow self sacrificing to win how extremely somber, the Devil doesn't appear that much in his true form, the cliches of a secret society that has the internt to prevent the end of the world, the obsessed cop, a mole as in a person the audience is fooled is a good guy is a bad guy.


How this should get remade.
The hero could be a Pacifist that believes violence isn't the solution, and maybe he believes no exceptions. Hard to remain with that belief when humans are being killed by the Devil and demons.
Or the hero is a man that believes being a hero by saving a person from a burning building, or something else that requires valour that he can impress babes, date a babe and have sex with a woman removing his virginity. So yep the hero while saving humanity is doing it for a obvious selfish reason making him similar to Beowulf, or the Greek Heroes.

The Devil is shown for most of the movie in his true Demon form.
The large horns, a long tail, dragon wings, eyes with no pupils, sharp teeth, and dragon scaly skin.
As for what could be done. It could be him watching with his Demons possessing humans plus creating destruction and killing animals and humans. All this done until all humans are dead.
So the hero has to safely defeat humans that are demon possessed plus the Devil.
Also some special devices to see which humans are possessed by demons.
Or the Devil and his Demons all in their true forms are killing humans, and creating destruction. Hard for the pacifist hero to believe not a exception, and not use violence to defeat the Devil and his Demons.
The climax could be the hero fighting the Devil at Bunker Hill, inside the Rome Colosseum, center of Times Square, or a Church or some area altered to be similar to Hell, or inside Hell.

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