Darth Vader vs. Psylocke

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Smurph
Current versions of both (so, post-Legends).

They start .5 km apart in Central Park. No other people are present.



https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/9/50/553a6eb4e2c29/standard_fantastic.jpg

vs.

http://i.imgur.com/bkcjTLa.png

leonidas
this is actually a really cool match up. my guess is most don't really know current betsy. i've only seen a few appearances of hers so i'm not sure exactly what her capabilities are. there are versions that could take him--the ones with uber tp and tk. standard betsy is almost a mirror of vader in many ways. be cool seeing her psy sword against the lightsaber.

without some of betsy current feats it's a tough call. very good match up though. thumb up

carver9
Wait a minute, Psylock is a good fight for Vader but Vader can beat one of the most powerful being on the planet? KMC!!!

basilisk
This is an interesting fight with their power sets and weapons being kind of similar.

Psylocke seems to have different power variations and power levels every time I pick up an X-Men comic. Sometimes she's quite powerful, but last I saw her she was threatening Medusa with her sword and Medusa knocked her out with a hair fist... or something. Classic Psylocke would lose but later versions would definitely be in there.

But I'm still going to go with Vader for a majority. He's a badass in the SW comics (plus he's just a way cooler classic character who doesn't need "upgrading" every 12 months or so in an attempt to be relevant). Characters like Psylocke are a bit too variable for my liking in these fights.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute, Psylocke is a good fight for Vader but Vader can beat one of the most powerful being on the planet? KMC!!!



Yes, but Batman lost to Shiva, Carver.
He can't claim the #1 spot anymore.

leonidas
as usual carv is carv. hulk simply has no defense for an airway choked off by tk. he can't punch or hit it. betsy, otoh, can match his tk. if she can't, she'd die too. some iterations of her would beat standard vader BECAUSE her tp/tk are superior, others would lose. her sword wouldn't be as effective against hulk as a physical saber would be though.

some match ups are just bad for one side. not very complicated.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute, Psylock is a good fight for Vader but Vader can beat one of the most powerful being on the planet? KMC!!!

Is this the first time you've ever read comics?

Metallo is a good fight for Superman, one of the highest of heralds.

I bet a mere high meta would thrash him.

Simple logic.

bluewaterrider
Gonna have to go with Psylocke. As far back as the 1990s she was taking on and defeating the likes of Sabretooth and Omega Red, despite the fact the latter could kill people practically at will. She just played tricks with Red's mind, making him THINK what he was doing was what he in fact was not; helpless to understand without explanation. That was over 20 years ago.
I can only imagine what she's doing now.

https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34412376_image.jpg https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34412377_image.jpg https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34412378_image.jpg https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34412380_image.jpg https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34412381_image.jpg https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34412382_image.jpg https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34412383_image.jpg

Source: X-Men #7
Writer: Jim Lee
Penciller: Art Thibert
Circa: 1992

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is this the first time you've ever read comics?

Metallo is a good fight for Superman, one of the highest of heralds.

I bet a mere high meta would thrash him.




Metallo versus Magneto, DC!

Make it happen!

Smurph
Originally posted by leonidas
this is actually a really cool match up. my guess is most don't really know current betsy. i've only seen a few appearances of hers so i'm not sure exactly what her capabilities are. there are versions that could take him--the ones with uber tp and tk. standard betsy is almost a mirror of vader in many ways. be cool seeing her psy sword against the lightsaber.

without some of betsy current feats it's a tough call. very good match up though. thumb up Yeah, later versions of Betsy seem directly inspired by Jedi - like when she blends her tp and tk into her fighting, and to amp her physical abilities. Her fights against Sabretooth and Berserker Logan are also probably fine reference for the arguments about Vader vs Logan.

I suspect Betsy has higher highs with telepathy, but I dunno how Vader's resistance stacks up. This fight might come down to a psi-blast.

carver9
Originally posted by leonidas
as usual carv is carv. hulk simply has no defense for an airway choked off by tk. he can't punch or hit it. betsy, otoh, can match his tk. if she can't, she'd die too. some iterations of her would beat standard vader BECAUSE her tp/tk are superior, others would lose. her sword wouldn't be as effective against hulk as a physical saber would be though.

some match ups are just bad for one side. not very complicated.

And this is where comic knowledge come into play. Hulk faced Jean (who had the force in her) and she TK lifted him in the air and he broke out with pure strength. Fought Cable who's TK was nothing to him and he fought Xman who admitted he was nothing to the Hulk and who's TK failed against him. Vader isn't doing crap to him with the force.

Wrong thread for this...sorry smurph.

carthage
Composite Vader??

He's willed himself back from death, by sheer willpower used the force to restore himself after Cycli shut down his life support systems, etc. His willpower should be strong enough to withstand her TP, the only Telepath who ever dominated him was Sidious

Vader shreds her with TK, unless she has some advanced feat like dominating thousands of minds or something

TethAdamTheRock
Vader is more skilled

Galan007
I don't know much at all about Psy, but the fact that this battle is in Central Park could potentially help Vader tremendously -- gives him a TON of objects to throw her way. Keep in mind that even post-Legends Vader has some pretty impressive TK showings. Here is an example:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/5659527-4224855859-tumbl.gif
*It's hard to tell in that gif, but Vader was actually lifting two AT-ST Walkers there.


OR the objects in his vicinity could provide him with additional means to shield himself from attacks -- in a manner similar to this:
http://i.imgur.com/gdz4Yzd.jpg



I have no clue who wins(as I said, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to Psy), but Vader could do well against most in this setting, imo.

Smurph
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't know much at all about Psy, but the fact that this battle is in Central Park could potentially help Vader tremendously -- gives him a TON of objects to throw her way. Keep in mind that even post-Legends Vader has some pretty impressive TK showings. Here is an example:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/5659527-4224855859-tumbl.gif
*It's hard to tell in that gif, but Vader was actually lifting two AT-ST Walkers there.


OR the objects in his vicinity could provide him with additional means to shield himself from attacks -- in a manner similar to this:
http://i.imgur.com/gdz4Yzd.jpg



I have no clue who wins(as I said, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to Psy), but Vader could do well against most in this setting, imo. thumb up

Psylocke has specific feats of tk shields:
http://i.imgur.com/IGZGRVu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zUmtF8c.jpg

And then others of running on shrapnel:
https://p.dreamwidth.org/7b284564d51b/172314-3955409/oi49.tinypic.com/2q0v90p.jpg
http://imgur.com/1hizVuc

But the bigger question, IMO, is if Vader can resist this kind of psi-assault (Archangel was amped here):

http://imgur.com/CHdnrEH
http://imgur.com/z3B7kSq

leonidas
that's the version that took out fantomex. when charlie and phoenix jean weren't able to do that.... i'd give that version the win. a later version was handling cassandra nova too, no?

i think her tk in most forms could prevent her being battered by vader, but his tp resistance is a question for me. i wonder too if she could use her own tk to take apart his armor, or much with the systems.... this is still a tough call.

Galan007
Originally posted by Smurph
But the bigger question, IMO, is if Vader can resist this kind of psi-assault (Archangel was amped here):

http://imgur.com/CHdnrEH
http://imgur.com/z3B7kSq Doubtful that a legitimate case can be made for him. Vader is quite limited in the TP department.

It would seem this may potentially come down to Psy's TP vs. Vader's TK..?

leonidas
yeah, most likely, though there are a couple versions of her that have pretty uber tk as well. in a book it would def come down to teh psy blade vs the saber though. that's what the fans would pay to see. me included. thumb up wonder who would be more skilled with a blade? prolly vader but it would be fun to see.

deathslash
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't know much at all about Psy, but the fact that this battle is in Central Park could potentially help Vader tremendously -- gives him a TON of objects to throw her way. Keep in mind that even post-Legends Vader has some pretty impressive TK showings. Here is an example:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/5659527-4224855859-tumbl.gif
*It's hard to tell in that gif, but Vader was actually lifting two AT-ST Walkers there.


OR the objects in his vicinity could provide him with additional means to shield himself from attacks -- in a manner similar to this:
http://i.imgur.com/gdz4Yzd.jpg



I have no clue who wins(as I said, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to Psy), but Vader could do well against most in this setting, imo. didn't Vader start casually throwing huge boulders at rebel ships in Vader Down? I think I also recall him stopping Han from stepping on him with an AT-AT.

Smurph
I don't know enough about Vader, but from what I've seen he probably has more overt use of Force/TK than Betsy does, although she certainly has a lot of implied power: http://i.imgur.com/PqoIoLf.jpg

And obviously his lightsaber has more destructive power than her psychic knife or tk blades, but a solid strike from either of them should mean a KO: http://i.imgur.com/dZALQgC.jpg

Plus, since it's made out of TK, I imagine that her blades could block a saber? mmm

Galan007
Originally posted by leonidas
wonder who would be more skilled with a blade? prolly vader but it would be fun to see. Even in that bulky mechanical suit, Vader was still one of the most skilled/elite swordsmen in galactic history. So Psy would have to be extremely skillful to best him with a blade.

Originally posted by deathslash
didn't Vader start casually throwing huge boulders at rebel ships in Vader Down? I think I also recall him stopping Han from stepping on him with an AT-AT. Yes. He also froze a shuttle dead in its tracks to prevent it from engaging hyperdrive(albeit with great difficulty.)

Originally posted by Smurph
I don't know enough about Vader, but from what I've seen he probably has more overt use of Force/TK than Betsy does, although she certainly has a lot of implied power: http://i.imgur.com/PqoIoLf.jpg

And obviously his lightsaber has more destructive power than her psychic knife or tk blades, but a solid strike from either of them should mean a KO: http://i.imgur.com/dZALQgC.jpg

Plus, since it's made out of TK, I imagine that her blades could block a saber? mmm Vader can also manifest force-shielding of his own:
http://i.imgur.com/0h2XIlx.jpg

...Which *might* make using those blades of hers much more difficult. /shrug

StyleTime
Originally posted by basilisk
But I'm still going to go with Vader for a majority. He's a badass in the SW comics (plus he's just a way cooler classic character who doesn't need "upgrading" every 12 months or so in an attempt to be relevant). Characters like Psylocke are a bit too variable for my liking in these fights.
Ironically, Psylocke's upgrade happened in the best X-series of the last decade, and one of the best ever.

As for the fight, I know very little about Vader. Psylocke has a variable history, but she's been moderately stable for the last 8-10 years. Basically, strong telepathy with weaker telekinesis. The main reason for the confusion is because Remender wrote out her TK completely, before other writers hesitantly brought it back. Remender's spectacular run was well worth the inconsistency though.

Anyways, I have no idea what the upper limit on Vader's TK is, or what his physical stats are. Can't really comment on the fight. What are his feats in those regards?

deathslash
Originally posted by StyleTime
Ironically, Psylocke's upgrade happened in the best X-series of the last decade, and one of the best ever.

As for the fight, I know very little about Vader. Psylocke has a variable history, but she's been moderately stable for the last 8-10 years. Basically, strong telepathy with weaker telekinesis. The main reason for the confusion is because Remender wrote out her TK completely, before other writers hesitantly brought it back. Remender's spectacular run was well worth the inconsistency though.

Anyways, I have no idea what the upper limit on Vader's TK is, or what his physical stats are. Can't really comment on the fight. What are his feats in those regards? Vader has been trained by Obi-Wan Kenobi (the absolute best user of Soresu, bar none), was trained by master Yoda and Darth Sidious (two of the most knowledgeable force users ever), has casually vaporized people through their armor by using the force, has taken out an entire squadron of rebel pilots by casually throwing boulders at their ships, is capable of using the force to crush hearts or brains, has force choked a person from a galaxy away, can launch waves of lightning (think of force lightning and then combine that with force push), has killed countless wookie warriors and then killed a Jedi master that could pull TIE fighters out of the sky and was hurling them at Vader, straight up owned Star killer (his personal assassin who was powerful enough to alter the trajectory of a Star Destroyer class ship), and he's a genius general from the Clone Wars who has personally killed about 1/3 (maybe 2/3) of the Jedi Order.

leonidas
Originally posted by StyleTime
Ironically, Psylocke's upgrade happened in the best X-series of the last decade, and one of the best ever.

As for the fight, I know very little about Vader. Psylocke has a variable history, but she's been moderately stable for the last 8-10 years. Basically, strong telepathy with weaker telekinesis. The main reason for the confusion is because Remender wrote out her TK completely, before other writers hesitantly brought it back. Remender's spectacular run was well worth the inconsistency though.

Anyways, I have no idea what the upper limit on Vader's TK is, or what his physical stats are. Can't really comment on the fight. What are his feats in those regards?

if you're talking about uncanny x-force then yeah, it was an AWESOME series. one of my favourites in the last bunch of years for sure. it seemed for a while there her powers just kept increasing. there was even mention somewhere i think of making her an omega level tp. she's got some good showings with tk--especially her katana but i couldn't recall a time where she was really strong in tk AND tp. if we go by THIS betsy:

http://i.imgur.com/DQzGZIT.jpg

(that was the fight i was trying to remember earlier but i can't remember which book it was from to get more context!)

i think she wins the fight via tp. it would be awesome to see her blade battle vader though. his tk is likely stronger but shown above that blade can be deadly even to someone as powerful as cassie.

Rage.Of.Olympus
This ranges from a competitive fight with Psylocke having the edge to her sweeping Vader away.

Raptor22
Originally posted by Smurph
thumb up

Psylocke has specific feats of tk shields:
http://i.imgur.com/IGZGRVu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zUmtF8c.jpg

And then others of running on shrapnel:
https://p.dreamwidth.org/7b284564d51b/172314-3955409/oi49.tinypic.com/2q0v90p.jpg
http://imgur.com/1hizVuc

But the bigger question, IMO, is if Vader can resist this kind of psi-assault (Archangel was amped here):

http://imgur.com/CHdnrEH
http://imgur.com/z3B7kSq wtf is up with pyslockes legs in the last panel of the second scan? It looks like she's been injecting steroids directly into he calf, but for some reason none of it made it to her ankels.

krisblaze
I hope you guys are referring to Remenders uncanny x-force....and not the thing that followed...

leonidas
thumb up

Smurph
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This ranges from a competitive fight with Psylocke having the edge to her sweeping Vader away. thumb up

Aakla
I think it all comes down to The Force vs Psyonics is The Force the same thing or is it different and if its different how does it match up versus her Psyonics. If she can block him but he cant block her then she could shatter his insides with a thought and the same goes the other way.

I would go with Vader though but I don't follow Psylocke a whole lot. but Vader's fighting style, he puts the force behind each blow. its not just some 6'6 250lbs man swinging a stick at you, there is tons of force behind each blow. that Gif of him lifting the AT-ST walker, that power is put behind each blow while trying to shatter every bone in her body constantly the whole fight.

StyleTime
Originally posted by deathslash
Vader has been trained by Obi-Wan Kenobi (the absolute best user of Soresu, bar none), was trained by master Yoda and Darth Sidious (two of the most knowledgeable force users ever), has casually vaporized people through their armor by using the force, has taken out an entire squadron of rebel pilots by casually throwing boulders at their ships, is capable of using the force to crush hearts or brains, has force choked a person from a galaxy away, can launch waves of lightning (think of force lightning and then combine that with force push), has killed countless wookie warriors and then killed a Jedi master that could pull TIE fighters out of the sky and was hurling them at Vader, straight up owned Star killer (his personal assassin who was powerful enough to alter the trajectory of a Star Destroyer class ship), and he's a genius general from the Clone Wars who has personally killed about 1/3 (maybe 2/3) of the Jedi Order.
Most of those raise more questions than they answer, as someone unfamiliar with the series. I wouldn't know how strong this armor is that he vaporized people through, for example.
Originally posted by leonidas
if you're talking about uncanny x-force then yeah, it was an AWESOME series. one of my favourites in the last bunch of years for sure. it seemed for a while there her powers just kept increasing. there was even mention somewhere i think of making her an omega level tp. she's got some good showings with tk--especially her katana but i couldn't recall a time where she was really strong in tk AND tp. if we go by THIS betsy:

http://i.imgur.com/DQzGZIT.jpg

(that was the fight i was trying to remember earlier but i can't remember which book it was from to get more context!)

i think she wins the fight via tp. it would be awesome to see her blade battle vader though. his tk is likely stronger but shown above that blade can be deadly even to someone as powerful as cassie.
Yes, that is the one I'm talking about. Remender brought her up to Omega level tp when AoA Jean unlocked Betsy's full potential.

The scan is from Uncanny X-Force 15, the crappy one from Sam Humpries though. Lots of Psylocke screen time, but the stories sucked. Psylocke's psi-knife enables her to punch outside her of weight class, as it hurts people like Shadow King and Cassandra Nova, who are above her. It's psychic adamantium basically.
Originally posted by krisblaze
I hope you guys are referring to Remenders uncanny x-force....and not the thing that followed...
Indeed. No X-title since has measured up to it. The Kyle/Yost X-Force that lead up to Remender's run was pretty good too though.

deathslash
@style: It was a normal stormtrooper but my mentioning the feat was more to show that Vader has more than just tk going for him.

Galan007
Originally posted by StyleTime
Most of those raise more questions than they answer, as someone unfamiliar with the series. I wouldn't know how strong this armor is that he is vaporizing people through, for example. deathslash mentioned a good deal of Legends feats in his post. However, Smurph's OP specifies post-Legends, thus the bulk of those feats aren't usable here(if you're unfamiliar, pre/post-Legends denotes a change in SW continuity.)

Anyway, in Legends continuity Vader gesturely atomized a Storm Trooper beneath his armor:
http://i.imgur.com/fzpJ7N3.jpg
*But again: that showing isn't usable here.

deathslash
Originally posted by Galan007
deathslash mentioned a good deal of Legends feats in his post. However, Smurph's OP specifies post-Legends, thus the bulk of those feats aren't usable here(if you're unfamiliar, pre/post-Legends denotes a change in SW continuity.)

Anyway, in Legends continuity Vader gesturely atomized a Storm Trooper beneath his armor:
http://i.imgur.com/fzpJ7N3.jpg
*But again: that showing isn't usable here. oh shit, forgot all about the stips. Here's Vader's canon respect thread then.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/canon-darth-vader-respect-thread-1715394/

He might not be disintegrating people (yet) but he's definitely still impressive. Also, how often does psylocke start her fights with tp/tk?

Flyattractor
Does Comic Book Psy have her movie Lightsaber powers?

krisblaze
Psylocke and Vader are actually really similar.

They can predict their opponents moves. Have an undefined degree of TK that is either dominant or barely used. They both tend towards swordfighting and have some serious telepathy.

Originally posted by deathslash
He might not be disintegrating people (yet) but he's definitely still impressive. Also, how often does psylocke start her fights with tp/tk?

She's fighting to the best of her ability. So 100% of the time here.

DTM
Going with Vader to win here, as I dont see any reason why he couldnt lift/force choke her to death. Even in HTH, she is good, in my opinion, Vader is better.

krisblaze
Originally posted by DTM
Going with Vader to win here, as I dont see any reason why he couldnt lift/force choke her to death. Even in HTH, she is good, in my opinion, Vader is better.

She's the stronger telekinetic.

DTM
Removal

Flyattractor
Originally posted by krisblaze
She's the stronger telekinetic.


.......just....

deathslash
Originally posted by krisblaze
She's the stronger telekinetic. I can't tell if you're joking or not........

krisblaze
read more x-men bruh

Smurph
Originally posted by krisblaze
Psylocke and Vader are actually really similar.

They can predict their opponents moves. Have an undefined degree of TK that is either dominant or barely used. They both tend towards swordfighting and have some serious telepathy. This was basically my thinking... in the world of X-Men, there's not much rationale behind Psylocke's fighting style or whole ninja aesthetic besides "well, she's a Jedi"

krisblaze
So many odd showings.

In her fight with Brian he couldn't touch her because she could predict his every move.

Then again in x-treme x-men Rogue couldn't touch her because Betsy was using TK to slow her down, even though she had Quicksilvers speed. And Rogue was getting a REAL push around that time too.

Galan007
Originally posted by krisblaze
She's the stronger telekinetic. Not arguing this(like I said, I know nothing about Psy), but what TK feats does she have that give her the definitive edge in that department? I only ask because even post-Legends Vader has some doozies...

leonidas
i think this scan gives a great indication of how powerful her tk abilities became:

http://cs320824.vk.me/v320824451/3349/Vt4YximXN-Y.jpg

notice the small phoenix over rachel's eye. in that incarnation, rachel was powerful enough to create a BLACK HOLE through teke alone. for her to say betsy was more powerful is.....very whacked.

this is a shared feat but i still think it was a good one:

http://cs320824.vk.me/v320824451/332b/0-QHqvEICH4.jpg

https://vk.com/topic-54593323_29422453?z=photo2000023831_327534848%2Fpost-54593323_72

https://vk.com/topic-54593323_29422453?z=photo2000023237_327831651%2Fpost-54593323_72

https://vk.com/topic-54593323_29422453?z=photo2000022954_327467275%2Fpost-54593323_72

someone had asked if the blade could cut metal:

https://vk.com/topic-54593323_29422453?z=photo2000023464_327101011%2Fpost-54593323_86

her katana is pretty awesome but she has manifested many different weapons including powerful bows with powerful arrows that might also give an advantage in this battle.

all that said, i'm still not sure where she is right now in marvel. :/

in the past she has been able to teleport as well, can fly at supersonic speed and with tk has been strong enough to beat sabertooth. with tk she has torn apart nimrod and even made herself invisible. she was completely immune to tp (even omega level tp'ers) for a while, has been said to be one of the 3 most powerful psi's in marvel, has matched and beaten logan in a fight and was trained by ogun.

all of these things have been a part of her character at some point, but some have gone by the wayside, it's just hard sometimes keeping track of what she can STILL do. she is cool--very cool--but like so many x-characters, too many fingers in the pot have made her a difficult character to consistently gauge unless you follow her quite closely. /shrug

Smurph
Originally posted by krisblaze
So many odd showings.

In her fight with Brian he couldn't touch her because she could predict his every move.

Then again in x-treme x-men Rogue couldn't touch her because Betsy was using TK to slow her down, even though she had Quicksilvers speed. And Rogue was getting a REAL push around that time too. Iirc, in her fight with Sabretooth, she was keeping up because she was amping her strength and speed with TK.

leonidas
thumb up

Kid Kurdy
I like Vader just as much as the next guy, but personally I think he's not half as skilled as some people like to think.

Mostly, he just stands there and waves his sword a bit. He lets his TP and telekinesis do the most work.

He's an expert in fighting Jedi and other force users, but that's about it. Those Marvel characters fight every week another completely different bad guy, some of them way more dangerous than Vader on his best day.

TethAdamTheRock
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I like Vader just as much as the next guy, but personally I think he's not half as skilled as some people like to think.

Mostly, he just stands there and waves his sword a bit. He lets his TP and telekinesis do the most work.

He's an expert in fighting Jedi and other force users, but that's about it. Those Marvel characters fight every week another completely different bad guy, some of them way more dangerous than Vader on his best day. https://youtu.be/bkgzXpKbVGE

leonidas
in a blade battle it would be interesting. the force really helps a jedi--their skills seem more force-based, ie, intuitive, than actually learned/practiced. that's not to say they aren't skilled or don't train of course. i recall luke practicing with that droid blind-folded. he ended up blocking all the laser bolts easily, but his actions, while ridiculous and fast, were taken via the force. obviously betsy has learned a completely different way, but her own skills can be increased (at least the force of them) with her tk powers as well. vader isn't a 'ninja' obviously. i know for a fac he has fought some very agile opponents in the past, but psylocke might be a bit different. maybe. this is one of my favourite matches i've seen in the forum for quite a while. i keep going back and forth on a winner. lol

StyleTime
Originally posted by Galan007
deathslash mentioned a good deal of Legends feats in his post. However, Smurph's OP specifies post-Legends, thus the bulk of those feats aren't usable here(if you're unfamiliar, pre/post-Legends denotes a change in SW continuity.)

Anyway, in Legends continuity Vader gesturely atomized a Storm Trooper beneath his armor:
http://i.imgur.com/fzpJ7N3.jpg
*But again: that showing isn't usable here.
Cool. thumb up

Even though that showing isn't usable, Psylocke is definitely not capable of vaporizing someone. If Post-Legends Vader is anywhere near there, he'd out TK her. She probably caps out a little below Julian Keller level.

How's his TP and physical stats?
Originally posted by Smurph
This was basically my thinking... in the world of X-Men, there's not much rationale behind Psylocke's fighting style or whole ninja aesthetic besides "well, she's a Jedi"
thumb up Personally, I think they should dial back her tk and her tp, so she can be a psychic ninja. Going hand to hand with the telepathic strength she has is just silly. Same thing with the TK. Minor deflection and stat amping are fine, but she shouldn't be flying and tearing apart Nimrod clones.

Let Rachel finally just be the undisputed go-to TP/TK powerhouse.

StyleTime
Also, I'd like to add that Psylocke isn't that hard to keep up with. She's been a headlining character on multiple X-titles ever since her return, and usually has an explanation offered when her powers shift. A lot of the feats mentioned here were pre-death, or pre-Madelyn Pryor tampering, which aren't really usable. As a general rule, her TK showings pre-Remender could just be tossed out tbh.

Ever since then, she's been relatively the same. With 7 years of showings under our belts, we can peg her abilities pretty accurately. She's really, really high profile in the X-Books.

This isn't Husk, who can turn into Human Torch or some shit now.

leonidas
ok, that's fair enough. so what do you think is current psylocke's best tk feat? that shared feat with rachel is in your current timeframe, no? is she currently the same as she was just before the reboot? that's the one that took out cassandra, isn't it? my thinking is she is a really hard character to gauge for anyone trying to get a handle on her career power-wise. if she is the same right now as she was just prior to the reboot then she's...pretty powerful and her tp alone should be enough to take vader down, no?

leonidas
ok, so i looked back at a few books. you suggest she's been stable for 7 years or so. that would clearly include all the uncanny x-force stuff. so current betsy has that same level of tp and tk? so which of the feats i showed could actually be thrown out? the teleporting and immunity to telepaths, but i'm curious what else could be tossed if we go by x-force as a general guideline for the current version.

Galan007
Originally posted by StyleTime
How's his TP and physical stats? In post-Legends continuity, Vader has scarce few TP feats under his belt. He can muck with his opponents' thoughts to an extent --use their own doubt/fear to his advantage, for example-- but he's certainly not 'mind-raping' anyone or w/e.

The armor significantly increases most of his physical attributes:

http://i.imgur.com/ZLRLfve.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4UyohDx.jpg

And he can further augment his strength via the Force.

leonidas
problem with his mind tricks is that there are a number of people/creatures immune to his influence. jabba, cylo, most monsters it seems... but just because he can't affect someone's mind doesn't necessarily mean he would be easy pickings via tp. the feat where he overrode cylo's control shows the strength of will he has so she'd have a solid edge there, but his defenses are still potent i'd imagine.

Galan007
Exactly. thumb up

As is the case with most noteworthy force-users, I imagine that it would take quite an uber telepath to outright mind-rape Vader. As you mentioned: his mind/will is extremely formidable -- even by Jedi/Sith standards.

Not saying Psy can't do it(again, I have no clue), but my only question to that would be: is it in character for her to attempt mind-phuckery right from the outset?

StyleTime
Originally posted by leonidas
ok, that's fair enough. so what do you think is current psylocke's best tk feat? that shared feat with rachel is in your current timeframe, no? is she currently the same as she was just before the reboot? that's the one that took out cassandra, isn't it? my thinking is she is a really hard character to gauge for anyone trying to get a handle on her career power-wise. if she is the same right now as she was just prior to the reboot then she's...pretty powerful and her tp alone should be enough to take vader down, no?
Well, the Rachel feat was back when Psylocke was TK only, before the Sisterhood tampered with her. It doesn't count anymore due to some powerset shifts. The sisterhood incident, in short, was this. Madelyn Pryor plucked her from the time stream, and put her in a new body, and brainwashed her.

https://postimg.org/image/nk3aq5j1j/
https://postimg.org/image/oaw0vxlev/
https://postimg.org/image/6yvoahrxj/
https://postimg.org/image/odfwirp2f/

During the showdown with the Sisterhood, Dazzler blasts half of body-swapped Betsy's face off, which gave Betsy enough to control to fight the control off. I didn't post her mental battle with herself.

https://postimg.org/image/a78xjpbpx/
https://postimg.org/image/kvcoijlp1/
https://postimg.org/image/mhloaq7r7/

Betsy wins the psychic fight, returns to her body. She celebrates with Dazzler.

https://postimg.org/image/za9sanjcz/
https://postimg.org/image/7o70pz003/

Later, she reveals her telepathy is back.

https://postimg.org/image/7cpkd7jk3/

From here she was still strong TK, weak TP, until Remender took away the TK completely while upgrading her TP. Subsequent writers brought it back, but it's never been as strong as it was during your Claremont-era scan. Some believe it's because she can't use one power without weakening the other, and there is some justification for that.
https://postimg.org/image/w429b6u9x/

So, when AoA Jean upgraded her TP to Omega level, it is reasonable that her TK took a nose dive. If you want to go that route anyway. I don't necessarily follow it but it does explain things well.

Yes, she is the same as the one that beat Cassandra, albeit with help. Her best TK feat currently is hard to gauge. She rips big metal doors off the hinges and hadoukens Fantomex into walls. Nothing crazy.

https://postimg.org/image/8pbl24kpf/
https://postimg.org/image/wucaju503/

StyleTime
Originally posted by leonidas
ok, so i looked back at a few books. you suggest she's been stable for 7 years or so. that would clearly include all the uncanny x-force stuff. so current betsy has that same level of tp and tk? so which of the feats i showed could actually be thrown out? the teleporting and immunity to telepaths, but i'm curious what else could be tossed if we go by x-force as a general guideline for the current version.
My bad. I wasn't aiming all that directly at you, as some were using stuff from the 90's. I would argue against using the feats you last posted though. One of those was before she died, and the others all before the Sisterhood.

Yes, I believe she is still at the same TP/TK level as that Remender/post-Remender period. Flightless, but can still toss out TK waves at people.
https://postimg.org/image/tkr7dyisf/

Oh, and keep in my mind, I'm not saying she loses. Just sounded like Vader might have stronger TK. I'm open to other arguments though.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly. thumb up

As is the case with most noteworthy force-users, I imagine that it would take quite an uber telepath to outright mind-rape Vader. As you mentioned: his mind/will is extremely formidable -- even by Jedi/Sith standards.

Not saying Psy can't do it(again, I have no clue), but my only question to that would be: is it in character for her to attempt mind-phuckery right from the outset?
Thanks for the info. I'm assuming he's bullet time-y? I've only seen the original trilogy, and all Jedi/Sith can do the laser blocking thing right?

She wouldn't try to put him to sleep right away, but she is prone to illusion casting and such while in melee. If his defense is strong enough, he might fight through it.

Digi
Guys, I feel like this is an opportunity to do something that's bigger than ourselves. Instead of determining who wins fights, can we band together to drive carver insane?

Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute, Psylock is a good fight for Vader but Vader can beat one of the most powerful being on the planet? KMC!!!

DarkSaint85
I could've sworn Vader was a good fight.

StyleTime
Psylocke or Vader stomp Hulk. That's been thoroughly proven in this thread.

leonidas
Originally posted by Digi
Guys, I feel like this is an opportunity to do something that's bigger than ourselves. Instead of determining who wins fights, can we band together to drive carver insane?

have you read some of his posts recently? your plan is completely redundant. but i like where your head's at. thumb up

Originally posted by StyleTime
Psylocke or Vader stomp Hulk. That's been thoroughly proven in this thread.

thumb up

Originally posted by StyleTime
My bad. I wasn't aiming all that directly at you, as some were using stuff from the 90's. I would argue against using the feats you last posted though. One of those was before she died, and the others all before the Sisterhood.

Yes, I believe she is still at the same TP/TK level as that Remender/post-Remender period. Flightless, but can still toss out TK waves at people.
https://postimg.org/image/tkr7dyisf/

Oh, and keep in my mind, I'm not saying she loses. Just sounded like Vader might have stronger TK. I'm open to other arguments though.

lol no worries thumb up

if that is her current level then i tend to agree with you in regards to her tk. i remembered the sisterhood arc after your refresher course. thanks. her best bet is still tp i think, but with his willpower it's far from a sure bet. i think when push comes to shove i'd take vader. this thread renewed my interest in some of the older x-men stuff though and i'm going through some while i'm on vacation. if i find anything that i think might shift opinion, i'll throw it up here. funny how interesting a thread can be when discussion is civil, open-minded and troll-less.

StyleTime
Originally posted by leonidas
if that is her current level then i tend to agree with you in regards to her tk. i remembered the sisterhood arc after your refresher course. thanks. her best bet is still tp i think, but with his willpower it's far from a sure bet. i think when push comes to shove i'd take vader. this thread renewed my interest in some of the older x-men stuff though and i'm going through some while i'm on vacation. if i find anything that i think might shift opinion, i'll throw it up here. funny how interesting a thread can be when discussion is civil, open-minded and troll-less.
Yeah, the Sisterhood arc sucked, so it's easy forget. The Sisterhood with Echantress/Deathstrike/TyphoidMary/Arkea was alright though. Oddly, there was a brief period between then and Remender's run where Claremont-era TK feats were possibly still applicable. She displayed flight and fairly strong TK at times, but writers differed. It was almost a gag, and they made in universe references to it being a "long story" and such. Colossus commented on it too.

https://postimg.org/image/t5wm3tnxp/
https://postimg.org/image/4dwzwl6r1/

That's why I think Remender's Uncanny X-Force is the perfect cutting off point. Her TK came back, but she's been relatively the same. Strong TP, flightless, Tk bursts, deflection abilities. She's definitely not blocking orbital satellite cannons nowadays. I'd place her above Monet and below an all out Julian.

I agree. Civility and open mindedness are best. thumb up I've looked at some old X-Men stuff too. The X-men are one of those teams I can't quit, even if they aren't in their best form currently. They got me into comics, so I've got a special affection for them. Even in this post-Bendis era of new mutants like Hope being totally pushed aside for time-displaced copies of the original 5...

Smurph
I remember Psylocke making lots of different sorts of TK weaponry in one of the recent X-Men runs. Bows, crossbows, maces and stuff.

That was cool.

StyleTime
Yup. She made a functional grappling hook and even Wolverine claws too. She used to only make like...bats.
https://postimg.org/image/e3203jpwx/

Wood expanded her construct arsenal a lot, and was further developing Jubilee's vamp abilities before the Young X-Men took the spotlight. Yay for clones of characters we already have!

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