Originally posted by cs_zoltan
By that logic Aayla and Vos also destroy Kun and Ulic. I'm okay with that
Originally posted by SunRazer
Again, non sequitur. Kun and Ulic can be stronger than MW Revan & Malak both without being stronger than Vitiate. Which is why your example was just horrendously irrelevant.
MW Malak is shit - he's literal fodder to either Kun or Ulic in their primes. After he gets stomped to oblivion in a duel or with the Force, Revan can last but he'll go nowhere but down.
Revan and Alek were distinguished veterans of the Mandalorian Wars at that point in time; assigning the initial MW to them, at that point in time, is therefore misleading.
And as I stated earlier, Revan became the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy at some point during the Mandalorian Wars. Confirmation below:
Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
The aforementioned revelation (alone) should tell you where Revan stood in the grand scheme of things when he confronted Vitiate for the first time. More interesting is the fact that the aforementioned accolade is not restricted to KoTOR era, setting the stage for an argument that Revan stronger than any Jedi in history - at that point in time - and nothing stands in the way of this assumption.
Speaking of KoTOR era in general, the Jedi Order had set the bar of competency relatively higher during this time than at any point in earlier times: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthant66/blog/knights-of-the-old-republic-era-is-the-prime-of-th/95277/
And the aforementioned revelation is not without merit as we have another source suggesting something similar:
Not every Force power or talent is well known in all eras. Knowledge is gained and lost over time, and techniques that are common during the Great Sith War are all but forgotten by the time of the Clone Wars.
Taken from the Jedi Training Academy Manual
On the other hand, we have Alek who also learned from experience and grew tremendously during the course of Mandalorian Wars. He distinguished himself from others with his exploits in battles:
Revan's friend Alek, later known as Malak, distinguished himself on the front lines. Revan's tactics and Malak's unyielding strength turned the tide, helping the Republic forces to victory at Althir and Jaga's Cluster. But the Council did not approve. Seeing their rash involvement in the war and their gradual adoption of Mandalorian tactics, the Council watched Revan and Malak’s heroics uneasily, remembering the fall of Exar Kun.
Taken from the codex entry in SWTOR titled "Galactic History 69: The Mandalorian Wars."
Both - Revan and Malak - honed their talents in the Force during the course of Mandalorian Wars and even learned some dark powers after the war had officially ended:
Finally, the Mandalorians had been routed. The Jedi generals Revan and Malak had killed Mandalore and hounded the remnants of the enemy fleet far beyond the boundaries of Republic space--and in so doing, performed terrible deeds and learned dark powers.
Taken from the codex entry in SWTOR titled "Galactic History 74: Revan and Malak Fall."
All of the above confronting Vitiate for the first time.
----
Only Vitiate - an almost godlike avatar of the Dark Side - was strong enough to humble both Revan and Malak in a confrontation at individual capacity. Forgive me for taking your argument with a grain of salt.
Originally posted by MythLord
Kun and Droma are, individually, stronger than (novel) Vitiate as combatants. Vitiate might be more powerful, but it's certainly not by much and his general ineptitude in combat sadly places him below both of them until SW:TOR.
Baas, despite being inferior in power to both Kun or Qel-Droma, has demonstrated the capability to contend extremely well with either of them in the realm of actual 1v1 combat. He's certainly a better fighter than Vitiate as of the Revan novel, hence if Vitiate is too scary for Alek and Revan to tackel, then I imagine Vodo Baas is going to break their joints with his quarter staff.
I suppose any notable warrior and his mom is a better fighter than Vitiate. Yet, Vitiate humbled the greatest champion of the Jedi Order - in Revan - in both encounters.
Vitiate never felt the need to use a melee weapon to defeat an opponent; his powers are more than enough to make-up for this deficiency in Jedi dueling arts (a combat skill that even Darth Plagueis perceived as waste of effort worth investing in). His combat tactics may not comprise of eye-popping action sequences but they are good enough to humble any opponent. OUTCOME is all that matters in the end.
It doesn't matters if Baas was able to contend extremely well with Exar Kun in single combat, performing eye-popping maneuvers during the course of confrontation! He still failed. Vitiate, on the other hand, would overwhelm Exar Kun with his powers from a distance. OUTCOME in both cases is expected to be decisively different and your subjective assessment is worthless.
Originally posted by MythLord
Let's also not forget to mention Alek's own relatively sub-par combat skills, since I can't remember when a "high ranking Force sensitive" was actually one-shotted by a non-Force sensitive:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c-055JRFk8c/WMfMkHwuzlI/AAAAAAAACr4/IehSGXkhWU8TV2yfD6qIdYRmi88cQygmgCL0B/h607/2017-03-14.png
Let's compare that to a pre-prime Ulic defeating a similar foe, despite disadvantageous circumstances:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pLEd-wcClxc/WMfOmePzbdI/AAAAAAAACsA/0g4h_9sLMJkAgrRDiOGab3KZAADEc_d1wCL0B/h937/2017-03-14.png
Yeah... hard to see Revan and Alek even beating Ulic together, much less "destroying" him.
Ah yes ....... let us consider a moment of embarrassment of Alek at the hands of arguably the greatest Mandalorian warrior to have ever existed - during an early stage of the Mandalorian Wars - and use it as a benchmark to evaluate Alek's strength and capabilities by the time he contended with Vitiate alongside Revan.
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/147508/5599612-krayt+vs+anakin+%2359.png
Let us also assume that Anakin Skywalker sucks because he got his @ss handed to him by A'sharad Hett in a fight. Nevermind, Anakin's growth in strength and capabilities afterwards.
By the way, Ulic Qel-Droma was a Dark Lord of the Sith at that point in time and had fought Exar Kun to a standstill earlier. I wouldn't consider him pre-prime at this point.
Your comparison is useless. See my response to member SunRazer above.
