Can Nomi Sunrider Force Sever the Sith Emperor?
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Geistalt
Who wins?
Who dies?
Round 1: Nomi all by herself.
Round 2: Nomi w/Sylvar.
Geistalt
Round 3: Nomi with Sylvar and Vodo-Siosk Baas.
Azronger
Nomi severed Ulic who's > novel Vitiate. Yes she can
TheMuser
Your logic is broken Az
Geistalt
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
General rule of thumb: Az is always wrong.
Emperordmb
General rule of thumb. If you constantly make shitty troll threads, you are not going to be taken seriously.
Geistalt
Worth it.
And it hardly qualifies as a troll thread when some people actually take it quite seriously.
Azronger
Originally posted by TheMuser
Your logic is broken Az
How so?
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
Nomi severed Ulic who's > novel Vitiate. Yes she can
Next, you will find a quote in a 15 year old source that may have promoted Naga Sadow as the most powerful Sith in the galaxy and you will be taking it as gospel.
People tend to move forward but you are going backward.
Ever since the Emperor was introduced and promoted as the most powerful Force-user in the lore, earlier promotions of Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma are suspect. TOR sources acknowledge Kun's great strength and Ulic as his peer but they do not affirm that these two guys were stronger than the Emperor at any point because it won't make any sense. TOR sources acknowledged Naga Sadow as one of the most powerful Sith in history FYI. Point is that TOR sources do not exclude any notable character from re-evaluation but are consistent in promoting the superiority of the Emperor over the others.
Emperor - as of Revan - is promoted as an almost godlike avatar of the Dark Side with feats of dismissing an entire Dark Council in a confrontation with Sith Sorcery, corrupting the environment of Dromund Kaas with Sith Sorcery (a planetary-scale showing), stated to be two powerful for even the duo of Revan and Alek to tackle, and overwhelming the most powerful Jedi in history with sheer raw power in a confrontation.
Ulic has nothing on Vitiate. Stalemating a pre-prime Kun is not enough.
Azronger
'Kay. Now do you actually have something worthwhile that would prove novel Vitiate's superiority to Kun or Ulic? By "worthwhile" I mean something that doesn't rely on unquantifiable hyperbole, or that appeals to ignorance with a primitive feats-only mentality?
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
'Kay. Now do you actually have something worthwhile that would prove novel Vitiate's superiority to Kun or Ulic? By "worthwhile" I mean something that doesn't rely on unquantifiable hyperbole, or that appeals to ignorance with a primitive feats-only mentality?
Revan (Reborn) >> Nomi Sunrider who severed Ulic Qel-Droma's connection with the Force.
And Vitiate (Nov) >> Revan (Reborn)
Quantifiable enough for you?
Azronger
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan (Reborn) >> Nomi Sunrider who severed Ulic Qel-Droma's connection with the Force.
And Vitiate (Nov) >> Revan (Reborn)
Quantifiable enough for you?
Completely baseless claims, lmao.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
Completely baseless claims, lmao.
Revan: confirmed as the Jedi Order's most powerful champion in the novel. His command of the Force outstrip's that of Darth Nihilus as well.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Revan humbles Nomi Sunrider in a confrontation.
Vitiate: confirmed as Revan's superior in the novel and another source. Revan himself wasn't sure if he could handle Vitiate on his own.
Not sure if you are trolling or serious.
MythLord
1. That makes Revan better than Jedi!Kun and Ulic; they still had pretty substantial power-growth's afterwards. His control of the Force being > Nihilus doesn't mean he himself possesses more power than Nihilus.
2. Good; Vitiate is > Revan, but that doesn't change that Exar Kun is canonically better.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by MythLord
1. That makes Revan better than Jedi!Kun and Ulic; they still had pretty substantial power-growth's afterwards. His control of the Force being > Nihilus doesn't mean he himself possesses more power than Nihilus.
Sure.
But Revan was that strong as of Battle of Malachor V.
Revan (Reborn) is a major leap from that point in time. No wonder he one-shotted a member of the Dark Council who had humbled the duo of Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik earlier.
And Revan's superior control isn't detached from his raw power. If anything, it enables him to make more effective use of his raw power than others.
Originally posted by MythLord
2. Good; Vitiate is > Revan, but that doesn't change that Exar Kun is canonically better.
We have a good reason to suspect that promotion because the relevant source doesn't acknowledges existence of Vitiate.
TOR sources recognize Kun's great strength but do not affirm his superority over Vitiate at any point. They do reveal that ancient Sith considered Kun a legitimate Sith.
Beniboybling
It doesn't make Revan shit lol, Kun, Ulic & (probably) Nomi were all dead by that point.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
It doesn't make Revan shit lol, Kun, Ulic & (probably) Nomi were all dead by that point.
That accolade is not era-specific.
Beniboybling
Aside from its stated contexts being the Mandalorian Wars.
Azronger
Revan is better than Jedi Ulic and Kun. That's it. Trying to twist it so that it applies to prime versions would assume they all grew equally, which is an unproven notion. Kun > Ulic > Vitiate > Revan, as per canonical sources. Fact.
Geistalt
Okay...
Who says those 50 years were negligible?
Just how much stronger were Exar and Ulic?
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Aside from its stated contexts being the Mandalorian Wars.
Mandalorian Wars have nothing to do with the quote in question.
Revan is explicitly the strongest member of the Jedi Order by that point in time - battle of Malachor V.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
Revan is better than Jedi Ulic and Kun. That's it. Trying to twist it so that it applies to prime versions would assume they all grew equally, which is an unproven notion. Kun > Ulic > Vitiate > Revan, as per canonical sources. Fact.
Actually the equation is like this:
Revan (Reborn) >>>> Revan (MW-LB) > any Jedi in history.
No source declares Exar Kun being stronger than Revan. Forget Vitiate.
Your assumption is bullshit.
Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Mandalorian Wars have nothing to do with the quote in question.
Revan is explicitly the strongest member of the Jedi Order by that point in time - battle of Malachor V.
The quote in question is discussing Revan's prowess during the Mandalorian Wars. Dead Jedi like Nomi & Ulic are completely irrelevant.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The quote in question is discussing Revan's prowess during the Mandalorian Wars. Dead Jedi like Nomi & Ulic are completely irrelevant.
Very funny.
Revan was stronger than any Jedi in history by the time he fought the Mandalore. I know this upsets you but you will come to terms with it.
Beniboybling
Your reaching is indeed amusing. But unfortunately no, the statement in question makes no mention of history nor do the contexts necessitate such a baseless assumption. He was the most powerful champion the Jedi had to offer at the time, nothing more.
Azronger
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Actually the equation is like this:
Revan (Reborn) >>>> Revan (MW-LB) > any Jedi in history.
No source declares Exar Kun being stronger than Revan. Forget Vitiate.
Your assumption is bullshit.
No, but they do declare Exar Kun being stronger than Vitiate. Dry those tears, lmao.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
No, but they do declare Exar Kun being stronger than Vitiate. Dry those tears, lmao.
Show me that quote please.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your reaching is indeed amusing. But unfortunately no, the statement in question makes no mention of history nor do the contexts necessitate such a baseless assumption. He was the most powerful champion the Jedi had to offer at the time, nothing more.
That would have been the case if Revan was stated to be the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, but no. Revan's accolade is not era-specific.
Revan is stated to be the Jedi Order's most powerful champion. In this case, Jedi Order's history can be safely assumed. Sorry.
SunRazer
The context of the quote makes it clear that it's referring only to present Jedi, and possibly only the Jedi involved in the Mandalorian Wars (which would exclude the Council, etc).
S_W_LeGenD
^^^
The term "Jedi Order" refers to the entirety of it.
Revan wasn't only the strongest among the so-called Revanchists but as a member of the Jedi Order on the whole.
So-called context imposes no restriction on the scope of the accolade itself.
S_W_LeGenD
^^^
https://www.testden.com/toeic/grammar-unnecessary-words.htm
SunRazer
Not sure what you're laughing at. Any other definition of "champion" would be redundant because of the "most powerful" phrase. That'd be like saying he was the most powerful . That doesn't make sense.
The preceding sentence discusses Revan leading Jedi into battle against the Mandalorians. Hence, "most powerful champion" means Revan was the greatest of those who went to war with the Mandalorians — the most powerful champion of that Revanchist cause, which, of course, was derived from warriors of the Jedi Order.
Of course, as I said, that's only one interpretation, but the more I think of it, the more likely it is.
I'm waiting for Ant and other Revan fanboys to start their bashing, but it's kind of irrelevant since Revan doesn't even need this accolade to put him above the Council or any of the other names I mentioned above. KotOR II made that clear already.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
Not sure what you're laughing at. Any other definition of "champion" would be redundant because of the "most powerful" phrase. That'd be like saying he was the most powerful . That doesn't make sense.
The preceding sentence discusses Revan leading Jedi into battle against the Mandalorians. Hence, "most powerful champion" means Revan was the greatest of those who went to war with the Mandalorians — the most powerful champion of that Revanchist cause, which, of course, was derived from warriors of the Jedi Order.
Of course, as I said, that's only one interpretation, but the more I think of it, the more likely it is.
I'm waiting for Ant and other Revan fanboys to start their bashing, but it's kind of irrelevant since Revan doesn't even need this accolade to put him above the Council or any of the other names I mentioned above. KotOR II made that clear already.
A "champion" is someone who has proven himself in combat situations. If Revan is the greatest champion, than he is logically greatest of them all. Others haven't proven themselves in combat situations but this doesn't implies they are excluded from assessment.
SunRazer
By definition, a "champion" is either someone who has surpassed everyone else (ie. the best) or someone who takes up a cause. If we go by the former definition, it's redundant because it's saying he's the best twice. He's the strongest . It makes no sense.
The other definition is that Revan has taken up the cause of fighting the Mandalorians. Others have as well, so they are all "champions", but Revan was obviously the most powerful of them all. And we have reason to believe that it's this definition because the preceding sentence mentions Revan leading Jedi and Republic forces into battle against the Mandalorians.
So that quote doesn't prove anything, but it's not necessary to begin with. KotOR II has already established Revan as being greater than any other Jedi of that time.
S_W_LeGenD
^^^
Check the link I cited, if you haven't already. The word "champion" is extra (and unnecessary) in that sentense.
Can you point out the revelation in KoTOR 2?
SunRazer
That's my point. You wouldn't have redundant words in a published work, lol (although Drew is a shit writer).
You're literally proving my point. The first definition of champion doesn't work because the word becomes superfluous. Therefore, it's the second definition by default. It only counts the part of the Jedi Order that was involved in the war, not the entirety of the Order.
S_W_LeGenD
^^^
I didn't knew Revan was lacking in raw power back then.
SunRazer
Revan has learned everything the Jedi know. So there's no knowledge gap. And of course, he wields more raw power than any other Jedi (do I really need quotes for this?). It's clear that he's beyond any Jedi already.
SunRazer
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^
I didn't knew Revan was lacking in raw power back then.
Nobody said that at any point. I even acknowledged that Revan's superiority to all of the Jedi is made blatantly clear in KotOR II. All I said is that this quote doesn't refer to the same thing.
Head out of your arse, please.
Selenial
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^
https://www.testden.com/toeic/grammar-unnecessary-words.htm
****ing lmao LeGenD is lecturing people on grammar.
This is a joke, right?
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Selenial
****ing lmao LeGenD is lecturing people on grammar.
This is a joke, right?
"I have become more powerful than any Jedi Sith. Even you."
Miko Hacksaw
Caaaaaause he uses HUNGER POWER, not FORCE POWER. So of course Revan would have greater control of FORCE POWER. :P
True, Revan is not described in terms that Nihilus is. "Power that cannot be put into words", "so powerful only planets and stars demand his attention", so powerful the entire strike team (Meetra included) were "as insignificant as dust motes in a storm" - "as dead bodies orbiting Malachor V", and per the programmer notes from the game files Meetra upon running into Nihilus is supposed to "realize Nihilus is FAR more powerful" than she has been led to believe up to that point. So take those accolades and realize the programmers wanted you to realize that's actually underselling his true measure of power. He's MORE powerful than that.
Revan is powerful in Force Power.
Nihilus is powerful in Hunger Power.
Hunger Power > Force Power
So really this doesn't lower Revan or Nihilus in regard to their power level. It's like comparing apples to oranges really.
Miko Hacksaw
But no. She can't.
MythLord
Nihilus is a Force User; there's no such thing as Hunger Power. People need to stop making sh!t up and sticking imaginary terms to Nihilus.
Regardless, the quote is only about command/control of the Force, his power in the Force is certainly inferior to Nihilus' as has been established in KoTOR II.
Miko Hacksaw
Originally posted by MythLord
Nihilus is a Force User; there's no such thing as Hunger Power. People need to stop making sh!t up and sticking imaginary terms to Nihilus.
Regardless, the quote is only about command/control of the Force, his power in the Force is certainly inferior to Nihilus' as has been established in KoTOR II.
Interesting, since he used the power of his hunger to bind himself into his gear. Not his Force Power, not his Ki, not his Voodoo Magic, but the power of his hunger.
It must be tangible to be able to be used as a power source during a feat.
Its okay, you don't get it. I get it. But let's forget it.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by MythLord
Nihilus is a Force User; there's no such thing as Hunger Power. People need to stop making sh!t up and sticking imaginary terms to Nihilus.
Regardless, the quote is only about command/control of the Force, his power in the Force is certainly inferior to Nihilus' as has been established in KoTOR II.
Revan and Darth Nihilus are not compared in KOTOR 2 in the context of strength.
However, Jedi Master Kriea praised Revan's connection to the Force and asserted that nobody rivals him in that.
Geistalt
Originally posted by MythLord
Nihilus is a Force User; there's no such thing as Hunger Power. People need to stop making sh!t up and sticking imaginary terms to Nihilus.
Regardless, the quote is only about command/control of the Force, his power in the Force is certainly inferior to Nihilus' as has been established in KoTOR II. Yep; Nihilus has more power, but less control.
Originally posted by Miko Hacksaw
Interesting, since he used the power of his hunger to bind himself into his gear. Not his Force Power, not his Ki, not his Voodoo Magic, but the power of his hunger.
It must be tangible to be able to be used as a power source during a feat.
https://media.giphy.com/media/TNYy8aY7yateU/giphy.gif
This isn't DBZ, or A Certain Magical Index.
And you're forgetting that Sith use the Force through their emotions.
MythLord
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan and Darth Nihilus are not compared in KOTOR 2 in the context of strength.
Yes it is, lmao.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
However, Jedi Master Kriea praised Revan's connection to the Force and asserted that nobody rivals him in that.
No she didn't, lmao. She said he was "like the heart of the Force", which is much more from a philosophical standpoint and wouldn't apply to Nihilus since he's a Wound in the Force.
S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by MythLord
Yes it is, lmao.
No she didn't, lmao. She said he was "like the heart of the Force", which is much more from a philosophical standpoint and wouldn't apply to Nihilus since he's a Wound in the Force.
Statement of such comparison?
Translation: Revan embodies power and his connection to the Force is extraordinary. Straightforward praise, no ifs and buts in this case.
Darth Traya acknowledged immense power in Darth Nihilus as well but she pointed out that his source of strength is also his weakness and undoing.
Point is that Darth Nihilus doesn't embodies power like Revan.
Geistalt
Just to get our point across to Miko.
Rockydonovang
WTF is hunger power
Baas has stick power, he solos
Miko Hacksaw
Originally posted by Geistalt
Just to get our point across to Miko.
Your quotes, among others, are really ignorant as it assumes I am saying he uses only one kind of power and it excludes his use of another. He is stated to perform feats with Dark Side power, as well as his Hunger which uses the Force for fuel. As is officially stated, he is both Hunger and Pure Dark Side power. He uses the Dark side for some feats. He is directly stated as using Hunger for others.
I'm not sure how many more times I can repeat the same sources before I get a nose bleed from banging my head against a wall.
I'm not sure how you're that simple to understand:
The Force is a fuel source for his hunger, which is consumed and destroyed by it.
His hunger is a power source that uses the metabolized Force to perform feats, per official sources.
I mean seriously, once more, sources directly state its a power source that consumes the Force, and then is used to perform feats. How in god's green earth do you think when Nihilus uses his Hunger to perform feats, that he's using the Force itself rather than energy produced from the destruction of the Force?
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