Vitiate/Vaylin (Limitations shed) vs. Yoda/ROTS Sidious

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carthage
SWTOR Vitiate
Unchained Vaylin with limitations shed

Who wins

Force sabers all out

SunRazer
Vaylin's probably the most overrated character as of late (bar Ben Kenobi, but people are trolling).

Either Yoda or Sidious walk through her shitty storm and then kill her before coming back to grant Vitiate his overdue death.

S_W_LeGenD
^^^

You serious? That is a terrible argument.

Time has come to complete Vaylin's respect thread.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by SunRazer
Vaylin's probably the most overrated character as of late (bar Ben Kenobi, but people are trolling).

Either Yoda or Sidious walk through her shitty storm and then kill her before coming back to grant Vitiate his overdue death. thumb up

SunRazer

S_W_LeGenD
^^^

That is like if Bastila Shan is exceptional in Battle Meditation than Yoda would do it better. Not necessarily.

The Outlander is stronger than Revan and he barely made it through. He was also lucky enough to be close to Vaylin.

SunRazer
So the Outlander is exceptional in walking as Bastila was in Battle Meditation. Intriguing.

The Outlander, whether more powerful or not, is still less powerful than Yoda and Sidious. Far less powerful. And so is Vaylin.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
So the Outlander is exceptional in walking as Bastila was in Battle Meditation. Intriguing.

The Outlander, whether more powerful or not, is still less powerful than Yoda and Sidious. Far less powerful. And so is Vaylin.
Yoda is not supposed to be better than his predecessors in every thing. Outlander's defenses might be better than Yoda's.

That is your assumption.

SunRazer
He is. I'm pretty sure Yoda has basic Force defenses. thumb up

AncientPower
Vaylin overrated? What a joke, her two best feats aren't even talked about here.

SunRazer
People ranking her above Plagueis is a definite joke indeed.

carthage
To be fair AP is a retard

AncientPower
Says a moron whose entire life consists of getting reactioms from strangers on a dead forum about fictional characters.

Given Vaylin is casually reducing part of a mountain to ashes from orbit, probably not too far after all Nova.

SunRazer
Show me.

AncientPower
The chapters are literally on YouTube, go and watch Into the Void.

Chained Vaylin undergoes the process to remove the bonds keeping her power in check, but her power overloads the system, causes massive damage to the Sanctum(a structure that is built into the mountain beneath it) and is ashing everything it touches. The process would have killed her and destroyed the entire Sanctum, but through sheer will power she overpowers the system and becomes Unchained. She leaves the Sanctum and heads back to her fleet in Orbit, there she instantly kills nine Zakuul Knights and Executioners. Then she focuses her power on the Force meditation chamber within the Sanctum and causes it to completely overload. The Outlander and Lana barely escapes as the Sanctum begins to explode and Vaylin states that there will be nothing left on Nathema but 'ash and dust'. She doesn't even appear to exert her full power.

In principle, it's similar to Galen Marek overloading the cannon with Force Lightning to fire the weapon but obviously in a different context.

SunRazer
Yeah, she blew up that generator thing with a concentrated attack. You made it sound like she actually disintegrated a mountain directly.

In no way does this change what I said regarding Yoda and Palpatine and the Outlander.

Geistalt
Originally posted by SunRazer
Vaylin's probably the most overrated character as of late (bar Ben Kenobi, but people are trolling).

Either Yoda or Sidious walk through her shitty storm and then kill her before coming back to grant Vitiate his overdue death.

AncientPower
Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, she blew up that generator thing with a concentrated attack. You made it sound like she actually disintegrated a mountain directly.

In no way does this change what I said regarding Yoda and Palpatine and the Outlander.

Her Force power caused explosions that reduced the mountain to ashes, without any serious strain, whilst in orbit.

In no way did I say that this does change that, I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to take a LeGenD stance on a TOR character, call the character overrated and ignore the fact that she's actually much more powerful than we think when we actually bother to consider her feats.

SunRazer
There were more users than LeGenD claiming that Vaylin > Plagueis.

AncientPower
Not that it matters, she's even more heavily underrated (sub-Vader) than she is overrated. She's a legit powerhouse, and she should be recognised as such, I'm sick of the massive lowballing perpetuated by your friend.

MythLord
Yoda solos.

SunRazer
Originally posted by AncientPower
Not that it matters, she's even more heavily underrated (sub-Vader) than she is overrated. She's a legit powerhouse, and she should be recognised as such, I'm sick of the massive lowballing perpetuated by your friend.

Who's my friend? lol

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Her Force power caused explosions that reduced the mountain to ashes, without any serious strain, whilst in orbit.

In no way did I say that this does change that, I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to take a LeGenD stance on a TOR character, call the character overrated and ignore the fact that she's actually much more powerful than we think when we actually bother to consider her feats.
Oh great. My arguments in favor of TOR era characters are ridiculous and not be taken seriously.

On the other side of the camp, some members are asserting that Yoda will solo the TOR group and Ulic Qel-Droma is more powerful than Vitiate.

So Vaylin didn't disintegrate that facility but it was that machine? Right. Thanks for proving Vaylin is a joke. You undermined your own argument with that. Keep up the good work. thumb up

SunRazer
Yeah, destroying the generator isn't all that impressive.

And isn't Nathema a massive DS nexus?

Ursumeles
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Oh great. My arguments in favor of TOR era characters are ridiculous and not be taken seriously.

Yeah. Glad you understand.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yeah. Glad you understand.
This coming from you...is ironic. roll eyes (sarcastic)

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, destroying the generator isn't all that impressive.

And isn't Nathema a massive DS nexus?
Vaylin did that with a thought from outerspace. We don't see this very often.

No, Nathema is not a nexus. It is a void.

SunRazer
It's not a thought. It's a concentrated, meditated attack.

Also, I thought someone posted a quote about Nathema being so strong with the dark side that it became akin to a void?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
It's not a thought. It's a concentrated, meditated attack.
It is a thought-based concentrated attack.

I also revisited the relevant chapter to check if AncientPower was right or not.

It seems that Vaylin destroyed the entire Sanitarium with her power. Since the Sanitarium had vast underground sections, its destruction led to the collapse of the mountain where it was located. So yes, in a way, Vaylin destroyed the entire setting. On the whole, this feat is really impressive.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Also, I thought someone posted a quote about Nathema being so strong with the dark side that it became akin to a void?
It is not.

Few stories surrounding Valkorion are as chilling as the tale of Nathema. Long before assuming his current form, Valkorion was a Sith pureblood named Vitiate born on the lush and vibrant world of Medriaas. Vitiate rose to become Emperor of the Sith and ruled for over a thousand years--but only after extracting a terrible price.

Early in his reign, Vitiate invited thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords to his homeworld, then wiped out his would-be challengers in a profane dark side ritual that annihilated all life on the planet. Even the Force could not survive. The void that remained after the ritual brought pain and suffering to any Force-sensitive beings that approached.

The name Medriaas was purged from the galactic record and the barren planet became known as Nathema. Centuries later, Valkorion banished his daughter Vaylin to the blighted world, knowing the void would limit her growing power and make her more susceptible to the mental conditioning he could use to control her... if it didn't drive her mad.

Taken from codex entry in KoTET titled "Nathema."

Beniboybling
Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, she blew up that generator thing with a concentrated attack. You made it sound like she actually disintegrated a mountain directly.

In no way does this change what I said regarding Yoda and Palpatine and the Outlander. A highly disingenuous description of the feat yeah, it's not remotely on Plagueis' level.

On topic, Team 2 steam rolls.

S_W_LeGenD
^^^

My bad on that.

However, I don't recall Yoda or Darth Plagueis demonstrating something similar from outerspace, like ever.

Keeping in mind the fact that Vaylin can handle forces that will atomize even incredibly strong Force-users and her offensive showings are not any less, I see her in the league of Yoda and Darth Plagueis easily.

Geistalt
laughing out loud

Geistalt
Someone who fought evenly with someone definitively > Valk.

Vaylin > Valkorion confirmed.

Nephthys
How many limitations are we talking about here?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Geistalt
Someone who fought evenly with someone definitively > Valk.

Vaylin > Valkorion confirmed.
As of ROTS? No.

In-fact, BioWare's lead writer perceives Valkorion to be just as strong as Palpatine (DE) but with superior CONTROL and edge in combat. Although an unofficial opinion of a professional, it is still something in the absence of a definitive comparison between Palpatine and Valkorion in the literature.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
However, I don't recall Yoda or Darth Plagueis demonstrating something similar from outerspace, like ever.I don't recall Vaylin absorbing the lightning of he most powerful Sith Lord in history, or stretching out across the galaxy to inform every being of her existence, or levitating an army of battle droids with TK, or burying a Tenebrous-tier Force user before he realised what had hit him. mmm

Feat wars is a fun game LeG, but Vaylin doesn't do so well in it. no

So can Vader, and so far you've given me no reason to put her any higher. thumb up

SunRazer
Indeed, Vaylin would struggle to compete against 67 BBY Plagueis, let alone Palpatine or Yoda. The two of them are above Anakin, who is basically just a better version of Vaylin.

She enjoys a quick cremation here and Vitiate gets dethroned rather unceremoniously afterwards. thumb up

Beniboybling
In a nutshell, yeah.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't recall Vaylin absorbing the lightning of he most powerful Sith Lord in history,
And Yoda was done after that.

I'd say tanking a hyperdrive explosion and forces of the BRAIN machine are up there.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
or stretching out across the galaxy to inform every being of her existence,
That is not a feat of strength.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
or levitating an army of battle droids with TK,
Really?

https://i.imgur.com/BytFLox.mp4

She can replicate that showing easily.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
or burying a Tenebrous-tier Force user before he realised what had hit him. mmm
Darth Tenebrous did not saw it coming. If he had known, he would have prepared himself for it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Feat wars is a fun game LeG, but Vaylin doesn't do so well in it. no

So can Vader, and so far you've given me no reason to put her any higher. thumb up
Vaylin more than holds her own. smile

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And Yoda was done after that.

I'd say tanking a hyperdrive explosion and forces of the BRAIN machine is up there.Not even close. laughing out loud

It's a clear display of power lol, I also forgot to add that the Force ran from him in response.

When has Vaylin done something similar?

A Marek-tier showing, if that. sad

Quite, because Plagueis brought it down before he even knew what hit him. When has Vaylin done something similar?

Against Vader sure, she probably loses tho.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not even close. laughing out loud
We are talking about forces that were potent enough to literally atomize powerful Force-users. I don't recall Palpatine having powers that can literally atomize above-average Force-users with a single hit, not even close. Vaylin has the upperhand. thumb up

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's a clear display of power lol, I also forgot to add that the Force ran from him in response.

When has Vaylin done something similar?
We compare characters where a common ground can be found. You don't expect BioWare to demonstrate Vaylin doing every shit out there.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
A Marek-tier showing, if that. sad
Those are chunks of a skyscrapper sized structure and each would have weighed hundreds of tons. Vaylin not only held those in place but chugged them like missiles towards the target building.

Galen Marek doesn't have a showing like that. Anyways, point is that Vaylin could replicate the showing you originally mentioned and easily.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Quite, because Plagueis brought it down before he even knew what hit him. When has Vaylin done something similar?
Mara Jade Skywalker level showing. thumb up

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Against Vader sure, she probably loses tho.
Nah

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We are talking about forces that were potent enough to literally atomize powerful Force-users. I don't recall Palpatine having powers that can literally atomize above-average Force-users with a single hit, not even close. Vaylin has the upperhand. thumb upAdepts less powerful than Vader have atomised Force users darling, I'm sure Palpatine can manage a few scrubs Senya blitzed unarmed.

Quite, it's called using your own shitty logic against you. laughing out loud

In that respect, I accept your concession that Vaylin has nothing that compares.

Cool, Galen Marek's clone obliterated a frigate.

Perhaps she could, but I'm beginning to think it doesn't get her anywhere. sad

confused

Are you referring to something specific, or is this just the first name that came into your head?

I'm leaning. thumb up

Azronger
Atomizing Force users is sub-Vader-tier and tanking hyperdrive explosions is TPM Maul-tier. Is it really being suggested Vaylin can hang with Palpatine with those showings? laughing

Beniboybling
No, exploding spaceship equipment > Force lightning of the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Be more smart. smile

MythLord
Originally posted by Azronger
Atomizing Force users is sub-Vader-tier

Pre-TPM Maul is capable of shielding himself from explosion that nigh-atomize Force users, IIRC. smile

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Adepts less powerful than Vader have atomised Force users darling, I'm sure Palpatine can manage a few scrubs Senya blitzed unarmed.
Examples?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Quite, it's called using your own shitty logic against you. laughing out loud

In that respect, I accept your concession that Vaylin has nothing that compares.
alien

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cool, Galen Marek's clone obliterated a frigate.

Perhaps she could, but I'm beginning to think it doesn't get her anywhere. sad
He obliterated a segment of it whose durability was severely compromised due to pressures of the fall. Not that impressive.

We are getting somewhere with that. thumb up

Originally posted by Beniboybling
confused

Are you referring to something specific, or is this just the first name that came into your head?
Mara Jade Skywalker collapsed two sections of the cave simultaneously, pinning Darth Caedus in one.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm leaning. thumb up
Not so fast.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by MythLord
Pre-TPM Maul is capable of shielding himself from explosion that nigh-atomize Force users, IIRC. smile
Hyperdrive explosion is much more potent than that.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
Atomizing Force users is sub-Vader-tier and tanking hyperdrive explosions is TPM Maul-tier. Is it really being suggested Vaylin can hang with Palpatine with those showings? laughing
Your misconceptions are not even amusing.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Examples?


Kajin Savaros comes to mind, where he completely disintegrated another Force User to the point that he didn't exist anymore, not even his Force signature.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Kajin Savaros comes to mind, where he completely disintegrated another Force User to the point that he didn't exist anymore, not even his Force signature.
I looked into that and it is true.

Kajin Savaros packed immense raw power and was capable of feats that a Jedi Knight Jax Pavan thought impossible; he atomized an inquisitor Mas Sirrah in a fit of rage during a battle. Darth Vader also remarked that Savaror's powers were incalculable. However, Savaros was mentally unstable and his proper training was out of question.

Even this example doesn't suggests parity with the Forces that Vaylin endured.

The hyperdrive explosion was potent to the extent that it would have vaporized Senya if Vaylin was not there to shield her. Senya >>> Inquisitor Mas Sirrah

Additionally, a single stray bolt of BRAIN machine vaporized a Nathema Zealot - officially one of the most powerful servants of Vitiate. In contrast, Vaylin endured forces of BRAIN machine for a substantial amount of time and wrecked it in return.

Keep in mind that BRAIN machine was designed to torture/break/kill most powerful opponents/captives of Vitiate. None of them survived exposure to it. Vaylin was the only success story.

Beniboybling
https://turmarion.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/miss-the-point.png

Being that Sidious >> Vader > (if not >&gtwink Kajin Savaros i.e. ashing powerful Force users with telekinesis should be childs play for Sheev, to say nothing of his Force lightning.

And as far as the hyperdrive feat is concerned, Maul tanked an explosion that vaporised Anoon Boondara, and almost killed a Jedi Padawan several meters away, yet his Master's lightning would tear him to shreds.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Examples?Provided.

Accepted. smile

He obliterated a larger object that the chunks of a building Vaylin tore away. And its integrity being rather irrelevant when he vaporised it, not tore it apart. It's far and away a better feat.

Because she lured him into a trap from which he couldn't evade, not brought it down so fast he simply couldn't react. erm

Not that Caedus is in Tenebrous' league regardless.

With every argument you attempt to make I'm more convinced. smile

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
https://turmarion.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/miss-the-point.png

Being that Sidious >> Vader > (if not >&gtwink Kajin Savaros i.e. ashing powerful Force users with telekinesis should be childs play for Sheev, to say nothing of his Force lightning.
Kajin Savaros cannot be ranked, I'm afraid. He is a wild Force-sensitive, gifted with stupendous raw power. Darth Vader felt that his powers were incalculable but Savaros was found to be too volatile and dangerous for formal training. So there's that. His story ended at that.

If atomizing Force-users is child's play for Sheev, I wonder why he didn't atomize Luke Skywalker and others. mmm

These matters aren't so black and white, Beniboybling. It is possible that Savaros unleashed power of such magnitude in a fit of rage that even Darth Vader could not manage with years of training. These matters will remain ambiguous.

Force lightning doesn't atomizes a living being, it causes excruciating pain and severe burns; it may reduce a living being into skeletal remains or a pile of ash at maximum, at its most intense form. Nonetheless, it doesn't packs the kinetic force equivalent to that of a hyperdrive explosion or BRAIN machine. The latter two will literally atomize a living being in an instant, even a powerful Force-user like Senya in an instant. Just because Vaylin handled such forces, doesn't implies every notable Force-user would.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And as far as the hyperdrive feat is concerned, Maul tanked an explosion that vaporised Anoon Boondara, and almost killed a Jedi Padawan several meters away, yet his Master's lightning would tear him to shreds.
And which explosion is that?

I recall Darth Maul enduring an explosion of a speeder but he suffered extensive injuries from it. And tanking this kind of explosion is not a significant development.

We are talking about hyperdrive explosion here, not lesser forms of explosions.

Azronger
Starkiller atomized Stormtroopers with a burst of Lightning and Vader did so with simple gesture. Palpatine being unable to do so is laughable, especially when his lightning can reach intensities greater than a lightsaber blade.

MythLord
Yeh, Vader twitching his fingers reduced a Stormtrooper practically to nothingness. And this is the "shadow of Anakin" 0 ABY Vader. smile

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
Starkiller atomized Stormtroopers with a burst of Lightning and Vader did so with simple gesture. Palpatine being unable to do so is laughable, especially when his lightning can reach intensities greater than a lightsaber blade.
Starkiller did not atomize stormtroopers with Force lightning. This is a fanon myth floating around.

A dozen open-helmeted men and women in brown combat uniforms-Kota's insurgents, the apprentice presumed-came down the hangar's primary access corridor, sealing the blast door behind them. Baring his teeth, he ran to meet them, eager to take the offensive. Their rifles were no match for the power of the Force. A single, powerful push scattered them like dolls. One he blasted with lightning. A second he choked until all consciousness fled. A third he swept up and pounded against the nearest bulk-head. The rest he dismembered with graceful aggression, ignoring their cries of fear and pain.

Taken from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed: Novelization

And when did Darth Vader atomize a Stormtrooper? Even if he did that, atomizing a powerful Force-user is something else in comparison.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by MythLord
Yeh, Vader twitching his fingers reduced a Stormtrooper practically to nothingness. And this is the "shadow of Anakin" 0 ABY Vader. smile
Let me know when he is capable of atomizing a powerful Force-user.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Provided.
Addressed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He obliterated a larger object that the chunks of a building Vaylin tore away. And its integrity being rather irrelevant when he vaporised it, not tore it apart. It's far and away a better feat.
1. Integrity is everything, dude. He did not atomize it, he blew it apart into a billion pieces.

2. It is premature to boast that the segment of the Starship that Starkiller blew apart, was larger than the structure that Vaylin tore apart in the absence of a visual comparison. That segment was relatively much smaller. And integrity of the structure that Vaylin tore apart wasn't compromised.

3. Starkiller's showing is for from being a standout. Blowing a significantly compromised Starship structure apart is not the same as doing that to a healthy Starship structure.

Please revisit this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t631972.html

Vaylin would replicate Starkiller's showings with relative ease.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because she lured him into a trap from which he couldn't evade, not brought it down so fast he simply couldn't react. erm

Not that Caedus is in Tenebrous' league regardless.
Let us examine the feat in question:

While Tenebrous was preoccupied holding aloft the slabs that threatened to crush the ship, Plagueis quickly reoriented himself, aiming his raised hands at the plummeting slabs above his Master and, with a downward motion of both arms, brought them down so quickly and with so much momentum that Tenebrous was buried almost before he understood what had hit him.

Taken from Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

Darth Plagueis took advantage of the circumstances that Darth Tenebrous found himself in at that moment, struggling to prevent those slabs from crushing the Starship and himself beneath. Darth Plagueis was lucky in the sense that he was not in the danger zone and he had the luxury to sabotage Darth Tenebrous's effort.

The novel offers an explanation of Darth Tenebrous's failure:

His success in bringing the ceiling down on Tenebrous was proof enough that the Bith had grown sluggish and expendable. Otherwise, he would have divined the true source of the danger he had sensed, and Plagueis would be the one pressed to the floor of the grotto, head cracked open like an egg and chest cavity pierced by the pointed end of a fallen stalactite.

Taken from Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

Darth Tenebrous was past his prime. Outcome would have been different otherwise.

Your point is entirely devoid of the details attached to this development on the whole.

Azronger
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Starkiller did not atomize stormtroopers with Force lightning. This is a fanon myth floating around.

A dozen open-helmeted men and women in brown combat uniforms-Kota's insurgents, the apprentice presumed-came down the hangar's primary access corridor, sealing the blast door behind them. Baring his teeth, he ran to meet them, eager to take the offensive. Their rifles were no match for the power of the Force. A single, powerful push scattered them like dolls. One he blasted with lightning. A second he choked until all consciousness fled. A third he swept up and pounded against the nearest bulk-head. The rest he dismembered with graceful aggression, ignoring their cries of fear and pain.

Taken from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed: Novelization

And when did Darth Vader atomize a Stormtrooper? Even if he did that, atomizing a powerful Force-user is something else in comparison.

It's not a myth; it's been known about since 2010:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=16m20s&v=e6zIfCrWYsw

Also, here's Vader's feat:

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/5461921-4617679201-fzpJ7.jpg

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Kajin Savaros cannot be ranked, I'm afraid. He is a wild Force-sensitive, gifted with stupendous raw power. Darth Vader felt that his powers were incalculable but Savaros was found to be too volatile and dangerous for formal training. So there's that. His story ended at that.

If atomizing Force-users is child's play for Sheev, I wonder why he didn't atomize Luke Skywalker and others. mmm

These matters aren't so black and white, Beniboybling. It is possible that Savaros unleashed power of such magnitude in a fit of rage that even Darth Vader could not manage with years of training. These matters will remain ambiguous.Wrong I'm afraid, to two witnesses of the feat, Vader is described as the most powerful Force user they'd ever known:
Orly?

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/5448403-2653036548-giphy.gif

They looked vaporised to me. mmm

Boondara burst its power cell core with his lightsaber yeah, probably generating an even deadlier explosion than the one Vaylin tanked given it was generated only by a ruptured container of pressurised coolant. And it vaporised Boondara in a microsecond. thumb up

And no, Maul did not suffer extensive injuries, he was only stunned, yet retained the ability to survive a one-hundred foot fall.

Tanking a explosion that is capable of atomising living beings is not a significant development? Funny. I seem to remember you saying the exact opposite. Clearly Maul is capable of no-selling Palpatine's lightning. laughing out loud

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
It's not a myth; it's been known about since 2010:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=16m20s&v=e6zIfCrWYsw
Good thing that the novelization retconned that nonsense.

Anyhow, reducing a defenseless being to a pile of ash with FL is not an epic showing. This is nothing in comparison to examples I cited.

Originally posted by Azronger
Also, here's Vader's feat:

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/5461921-4617679201-fzpJ7.jpg
Thanks for sharing that.

It seems like an esoteric power. Much of the body armor remained intact.

Nonetheless, these are utterly useless examples to cite in comparison to those that I have brought forth.

We also have an example of nearly atomizing some assassins with a wave of Dark Side energy but could he do that to let's say Darth Venamis?

Try to understand that even an average Force-user has vastly superior defenses than a normal person in Star Wars and it almost impossible to vaporize one with largely standard applications. Only the greatest Force powers are expected to vaporize a powerful Force-user like Senya in an instant, powers that can devastate entire worlds. Scientifically, you would need a nuclear weapon to achieve same result.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
1. Integrity is everything, dude. He did not atomize it, he blew it apart into a billion pieces.Same difference, lmao. The point being he wrought infinitely greater destruction on a larger object than Vaylin. End of. And if he's capable of generating a force that can obliterate the ship, it wouldn't matter if it were more intact or not. Apply common sense.

Half a 300m ship, that's 150 meters. Or about 50 stories. You pegged Vaylin's feat at around 15-20 stories. It's bigger.

Sure she would. Sadly that would only make her 'Killer's equal. laughing out loud

Never said otherwise. Tenebrous was still to slow to even register what had hit him. Despite lesser Force users having sub-light reactions. Ergo. Plagueis moved them at immense speed.

Plagueis lauding up his victory despite just prior having been outdone by his master in speed and Force defenses has the objective quality and accuracy of zero. laughing

Naturally, lmfao.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Same difference, lmao. The point being he wrought infinitely greater destruction on a larger object than Vaylin. End of. And if he's capable of generating a force that can obliterate the ship, it wouldn't matter if it were more intact or not. Apply common sense.
Atomizing and blowing an object apart are two distinct levels of destruction. In the case of atomizing, the object would be eliminated in such a way that no trace of it will be left. In the case of blowing apart, you have a billion pieces to count afterwards. laughing out loud

And as I pointed out earlier, integrity is everything. That starship was in the process of disintegration with huge chunks falling apart and significant cracks forming everywhere. It had become much easier for Starkiller to blow apart the remainder of it into a billion pieces at that point (from within). However, could he do that to a healthy starship of that size and class under normal circumstances? NO.

If Starkiller was capable of feats like that under normal circumstances, he would have wrecked Darth Vader in a duel at a later stage, but reality is different. Starkiller's showings give a superficial impression of excellence in strength but on a closer look, he exploited the circumstances and/or vulnerabilities of the target to his advantage in each case. He had a tactical mindset.

Vaylin, on the other hand, tore apart a massive structure in its healthy state. Not just that but she held the massive chunks suspended in the air and chugged them like missiles towards a nearby building. Holistically, this feat is a superior demonstration of raw power than Starkiller's at any point of his existence.

Nonetheless, I am not sure why Starkiller was brought into this discussion. Point is that Vaylin would easily replicate a showing of Yoda that you pointed out as an example.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Half a 300m ship, that's 150 meters. Or about 50 stories. You pegged Vaylin's feat at around 15-20 stories. It's bigger.
My bad.

That estimation is absolutely conservative to be honest, that structure is actually 25 stories tall (I have seen it from an angle that proves this) and I will make a correction in the blog accordingly. Now, take a look at the structure in question:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138626/4908053-structure8.png

It has enormous mas (length x width).

The starship in question does not have a mass like that, it is relatively longer only but width is much less. Unfortunately, image posted by DarthAnt66 is down or I have shown you.

Still, argument is about integrity/durability of the structures and Vaylin gets the nod in this matter. Vaylin would blow that Starship apart into a billion chunks in its healthy state and original size because her growth is substantial since she destroyed that huge power core.

In short, Starkiller gets the boot on his @ss. laughing out loud

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure she would. Sadly that would only make her 'Killer's equal. laughing out loud
Right.

Yoda is also Starkiller's equal for absorbing Palpatine's Force Lightning for a limited period of time. wink

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Never said otherwise. Tenebrous was still to slow to even register what had hit him. Despite lesser Force users having sub-light reactions. Ergo. Plagueis moved them at immense speed.

Plagueis lauding up his victory despite just prior having been outdone by his master in speed and Force defenses has the objective quality and accuracy of zero. laughing

Naturally, lmfao.
Darth Tenebrous was preoccupied with preventing those slabs from crushing him beneath. He was not in the position to prevent Darth Plagueis from sabotaging his effort. This is a circumstantial victory for Darth Plagueis, my friend. Not trying to cheapen it but this is something that Vaylin can manage comfortably.

SunRazer
I think it's more to do with Plagueis calling down the slabs before Tenebrous could react. The debris was massive (multiple times the approximate size of a cathedral's ceiling) and Plagueis was hugely pre-prime, which makes it all the more impressive.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Atomizing and blowing an object apart are two distinct levels of destruction. In the case of atomizing, the object would be eliminated in such a way that no trace of it will be left. In the case of blowing apart, you have a billion pieces to count afterwards. laughing out loudCool, same difference i.e. infinitely greater in destructive magnitude than ripping something into chunks, and to the point at which the integrity of the ship becomes irrelevant.

The ship was not remotely close to obliteration, so yes, yes he could. Try to understand that if you are capable of generating sufficient force to reduce an object to dust, whether or not it has cracks in it ceases to become of any relevance.

An arbitrary assertion that needs no addressing, lel.

Or in other words you're grasping for shitty excuses. thumb up

She ripped off the front plating of a portion of a structure, if your going to nitpick Starkiller's feat at least be honest about your own. laughing out loud

Apart from that instance in which he obliterated a much larger object. sad

Yoda >> Starkiller. mmm

Yes I'm sure. Still much smaller than a 40-50 story section of a frigate that's about 20 stories in width and 13 stories high, by Ant's own estimations, and she only destroyed a fraction of it.

But here's a recreated image for you:

http://i.imgur.com/Zzf1Y7a.png

Not remotely as sizeable, even if she had TK'ed the entire building. eek!

That power core that was smaller than the aforementioned frigate and she didn't blow into a billion pieces? OK.

Sure he does. Perhaps make a thread and we can poll the general opinion.

No Yoda is more powerful for doing a much better job of it and surviving the encounter.

Save the witty rejoiners for those with more than half a wit darling.

I'm glad to here that. But sadly, you haven't proven Vaylin can manage it comfortably at all.

And I'm guessing you missed my response on the preivous page, but that's OK. There's nothing for you to add but concessions anyway. smile

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Wrong I'm afraid, to two witnesses of the feat, Vader is described as the most powerful Force user they'd ever known:
If I have to take those utterly subjective perceptions seriously than Darth Vader > Palpatine. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Emphasis mine. Darth Vader was an intimidating figure (with considerable strength and understanding of the ways of the Force) and he was the enforcer-er of Palpatine's will on top of that - much more visible on the frontlines than Palpatine - so it shall come as no surprise that some people perceived Darth Vader as the most powerful Force-user in the galaxy. In other words, those perceptions are grounded in FEAR.

Take a look at the perceptions about German war-machine during WW-II by the time it had conquered much of Europe and vast swaths of land in Africa and Russia. Some perceived it to be virtually unstoppable; FEAR was wide-spread and myths of its invincibility were circulating around. Then Stalingrad happened.

Unfortunately for you, nobody had a clear idea what Kajin Savaros was truly capable of.

"The depths of this young adept's powers are unknown, which is to say they are incalculable." (Darth Vader)

Darth Vader's judgement is to the point.

In his entire tenure as an Inquisitor, Tesla had never seen the Force used in such a way. (Inquisitor Tesla)

Tesla could not believe it when he noticed atomization of a fellow inquisitor. And he literally fled after witnessing that.

Savaros is an untrained Force-adept whose powers aren't fully realized yet. On the other hand, Darth Vader is a master of the Dark Side of the Force. However, Savaros's capabilities continued to surprise everybody, to the point that even Darth Vader himself deemed his powers/potential as incalculable.

Problem? Savaros was too volatile for formal training and his powers weren't fully realized. Case closed.

In short:

"The boy is freakishly powerful and untrained." (Den Dhur)

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Orly?

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/5448403-2653036548-giphy.gif

They looked vaporised to me. mmm
Retconned in the novelization:

His lightsaber was lit before he hit the deck, ready to deflect the shots fired his way by the contingent of troopers sent to investigate their landing. The Force guided his arm-no, the Force was his arm. That was how it felt to him. During moments such as these, he was purely a vessel for the dark side. It rushed through him like wine down the neck of a bottle, joyous with release and the promise of more to come. His blade drew glowing lines through the air, casting energy bolts back at the troopers who'd fired them, sending them sprawling in a shower of sparks.

A dozen open-helmeted men and women in brown combat uniforms-Kota's insurgents, the apprentice presumed-came down the hangar's primary access corridor, sealing the blast door behind them. Baring his teeth, he ran to meet them, eager to take the offensive. Their rifles were no match for the power of the Force. A single, powerful push scattered them like dolls. One he blasted with lightning. A second he choked until all consciousness fled. A third he swept up and pounded against the nearest bulk-head. The rest he dismembered with graceful aggression, ignoring their cries of fear and pain.

Taken from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed: Novelization

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Boondara burst its power cell core with his lightsaber yeah, probably generating an even deadlier explosion than the one Vaylin tanked given it was generated only by a ruptured container of pressurised coolant. And it vaporised Boondara in a microsecond. thumb up

And no, Maul did not suffer extensive injuries, he was only stunned, yet retained the ability to survive a one-hundred foot fall.

Tanking a explosion that is capable of atomising living beings is not a significant development? Funny. I seem to remember you saying the exact opposite. Clearly Maul is capable of no-selling Palpatine's lightning. laughing out loud
That is a ridiculous assumption. Pressurized coolant - spewing from the damaged hyperdrive - was just an evidence of damage and caused a shrill whine like noise. The damaged hyperdrive exploded soon after:

A shrill whine rose like a scream: the sound of pressurized coolant spewing from a punctured hyperdrive. Senya had just long enough to register what had happened before the damaged hyperdrive exploded.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: A Mother's Hope

---

That blast vaporized Anoon Bondara due to his proximity to it where its kinetic energy would have been greatest. However, Darth Maul anticipated it in advance and swiftly leapt to safety:

Maul turned and leapt from the plat-form, reaching for the dark side, enfolding himself in it even as the power cell exploded.

Taken from Shadow Hunter

---

Both forms of explosion were absolutely potent but common sense dictates that a hyperdrive explosion would be relatively much more powerful.

Difference between Darth Maul and Vaylin? Darth Maul swiftly leapt to safety in order to save himself while Vaylin took one like a champ. Their is no comparison between the two. Nice try tho.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cool, same difference i.e. infinitely greater in destructive magnitude than ripping something into chunks, and to the point at which the integrity of the ship becomes irrelevant.
You're daft, my friend.

First of all, this comparison is absolutely silly and ill-advised.

On one end, we have a gigantic structure composed entirely of huge plates of durasteel.*

On the other end, we have a machine housing a billion components inside its exterior.

*One can only tear this kind of structure apart.

**One can reduce a machine into a billion parts or such because its composition is like that. Vitiate reduced T3-M4 droid into a billion pieces as well, to give you an idea.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The ship was not remotely close to obliteration, so yes, yes he could. Try to understand that if you are capable of generating sufficient force to reduce an object to dust, whether or not it has cracks in it ceases to become of any relevance.
Here:

With his mind and all the power of the Force, Starkiller embraced what remained of the frigate beneath him-and blew it into a billion pieces.

Taken from The Force Unleashed II: Novelization

Take a look what a spacecraft has inside:

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/wm/live/624_351/images/live/p0/27/64/p02764kc.jpg

Countless parts in just that segment.

Emphasis mine. Starkiller did not reduce the remainder of the Starship to dust but simply disintegrated it. More importantly, the vessel would have comprised of countless components beneath its exterior, making the act of disintegration not anything extraordinary.

And the Starship was clearly falling apart before that:

With a bone-jarring crack, the spine connecting fore and aft sections of the frigate snapped clean through. Starkiller reached out with the Force, trying desperately to keep the two pieces together, but nothing could be done. They were already moving on slightly different trajectories. Air and debris sprayed from the great wound that separated them, providing entirely unpredictable thrust.

Groaning, juddering, the fore section began to lift again. Starkiller didn't fight it. With so much mass already stripped from it, the damage it would do when it hit was negligible. The rear was the priority. The heavy engines and main reactor continued powering forward on the trajectory it had originally been following. Was that the right trajectory or not? Starkiller anxiously studied its fall, projecting it forward to the best of his senses.

Taken from The Force Unleashed II: Novelization

Starship did not accomplish anything extraordinary in this case. Case closed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
An arbitrary assertion that needs no addressing, lel.

Or in other words you're grasping for shitty excuses. thumb up

She ripped off the front plating of a portion of a structure, if your going to nitpick Starkiller's feat at least be honest about your own. laughing out loud

Apart from that instance in which he obliterated a much larger object. sad
See above.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yoda >> Starkiller. mmm
Has Yoda disintegrated a frigate? mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes I'm sure. Still much smaller than a 40-50 story section of a frigate that's about 20 stories in width and 13 stories high, by Ant's own estimations, and she only destroyed a fraction of it.

But here's a recreated image for you:

http://i.imgur.com/Zzf1Y7a.png

Not remotely as sizeable, even if she had TK'ed the entire building. eek!
Even that segment was far from being fully intact before Starkiller disintegrated it from within.

Nonetheless, absolutely ill-advised comparison.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That power core that was smaller than the aforementioned frigate and she didn't blow into a billion pieces? OK.
See above.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure he does. Perhaps make a thread and we can poll the general opinion.
He does. wink

In-fact, I would contend that the original Galen Marek was relatively stronger.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No Yoda is more powerful for doing a much better job of it and surviving the encounter.

Save the witty rejoiners for those with more than half a wit darling.
Really?

1. Galen Marek was up against a relatively stronger incarnation of Palpatine.
2. Marek - while enduring the Force lightning - was able to close the gap between him and his opponent, subjecting the opponent to his own power.
3. Amidst the struggle, Marek saw his allies in danger and decided to save them rather than contend with Palpatine.

Sorry, my friend. I am not convinced.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm glad to here that. But sadly, you haven't proven Vaylin can manage it comfortably at all.

And I'm guessing you missed my response on the preivous page, but that's OK. There's nothing for you to add but concessions anyway. smile
Vaylin is actually overkill for that showing. thumb up

Concession should actually come from you for drawing silly comparisons and misinterpreting various developments.

Rockydonovang
vader>>starkiller>>vaylin

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
vaylin>>vader>>starkiller
Fixed.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
*snip*I refer to my original points. laughing

Has Yoda been ragdolled by Vader? eek!

All those parts where relatively intact. Actually. smile

I did, almost burst out laughing. smile

Than Vaylin? I agree.

I couldn't give a flying f*ck. smile

Not seeing a case here darling, shall I take it that you don't have one?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I refer to my original points. laughing
She needs to get her eyes examined. laughing out loud

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Has Yoda been ragdolled by Vader? eek!
They never fought. mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
All those parts where relatively intact. Actually. smile
You can't be sure of that. cool

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I did, almost burst out laughing. smile
Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Than Vaylin? I agree.
Than Starkiller.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I couldn't give a flying f*ck. smile
Galen Marek > Yoda

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not seeing a case here darling, shall I take it that you don't have one?
If Vaylin could suspend (absolutely huge) pieces of a massive structure in the air and chug them like missiles towards a target, replicating that showing of Darth Plagueis would be an easy task for her. Case closed.

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