Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Which sub vader duo prevails?

Team 1.

Ahsoka handles Maul while Kenobi goes unchoked (and unbeaten) by Tyranus.

Kenobi isn't sub Vader, he's equal to him in skill.

It totally depends on who wins between Fodder and Ahsoka, Kenobi can hold his own against Count. Given Kenobi's style is all about defense and he would recognize the Count due to previous encounters, its kind of open to interpretation if he could on the fly develop a counter to him like he did similarly to Maul.

Plus: Makashi doesn't have its advantage against other lightsaber styles in Canon.

Nor Soresu its weakness.

Maul gets blitzed and Dooku solos

Originally posted by carthage
Kenobi isn't sub Vader, he's equal to him in skill.

It totally depends on who wins between Fodder and Ahsoka, Kenobi can hold his own against Count. Given Kenobi's style is all about defense and he would recognize the Count due to previous encounters, its kind of open to interpretation if he could on the fly develop a counter to him like he did similarly to Maul.
He's sub Vader overall though

Originally posted by Azronger
Maul gets blitzed and Dooku solos
Dooku solos two challengers to prime Vader?

Team one. If Ahsoka put up a fight against Vader she can certainly hold off Dooku, and we all know how Rebels Kenobi vs Rebels Maul goes.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Dooku solos two challengers to prime Vader?

RotJ Vader is prime Vader. Rebels Vader has nothing on Dooku in terms of dueling abilities.

And Ahsoka and Kenobi will still be ragdolled by Dooku.

Originally posted by Azronger
RotJ Vader is prime Vader.


Not in Canon.

Who said this was Canon?

Probably Team 2. Dooku's force powers give them the advantage.

Originally posted by Azronger
Who said this was Canon?
The title of the thread?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Team one. If Ahsoka put up a fight against Vader she can certainly hold off Dooku, and we all know how Rebels Kenobi vs Rebels Maul goes. ^

Canon Tyranus just doesn't have the showings to place him > Rebels Vader.

Tano hasn't shown any defensive force abilities; certainly none to protect her from Tyranus who has molested Ventress in both canon and legends.

Maul and Kenobi would drag out longer than Dooku vs Tano as I personally believe the Rebels "fight" to be more symbolic than an accurate showing of skill.

Team Maul wins.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Team one. If Ahsoka put up a fight against Vader she can certainly hold off Dooku, and we all know how Rebels Kenobi vs Rebels Maul goes.

Maul gets stomped, then Dooku loses hard.

I just don't see it. Rebels Ahsoka and Rebels Kenobi are not powerful enough to overwhelm even Dooku alone who has repeatedly shown competence to deal with superior duos.

Totally depends on who gets who

Dooku can remove Ahsoka via the force, and Kenobi can blitz and stomp Maul

Dooku solos with difficulty

Maul gets crumpled like a B1 Battle droid by Obi-Wan whilst Dooku ragdolls Ahsoka to oblivion and back, then back to oblivion and beyond.

Then we have a nice duel of the elderly gentlemen in which Tyranus prevails after a hard-fought battle.

mmm

He could win through the force, not sure he could take pure sabers.

Maul needs to sit this one out, he's clearly shit tier and not on par with the greats

Team 1. Dooku's ability to ragdoll isn't going to be of much use here. And in sabres they are outmatched.

Not sure. I don't see Ahsoka or Maul making much of a difference here though.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The title of the thread?

It could be composite or Canon. Given that there's no specification and we're in the EU forum, I'm going composite.

Originally posted by Azronger
It could be composite or Canon. Given that there's no specification and we're in the EU forum, I'm going composite.


EU stands for "Expanded Universe", defined as anything outside of the films. It does not stand for Legends.

"Canon" is the assumed default anyway.

Also even if it was "composite" why would that give Legends priority over when Vader's prime is?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
EU stands for "Expanded Universe", defined as anything outside of the films. It does not stand for Legends.

"Canon" is the assumed default anyway.

Also even if it was "composite" why would that give Legends priority over when Vader's prime is?

But if we go use Canon over everything that Legends tell us, then what's the point of using Legends to begin with? This would kind of make the whole "Composite" thing kinda moot wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
EU stands for "Expanded Universe", defined as anything outside of the films. It does not stand for Legends.

It's the same damned thing, lol.



Yeah, by you.



Because the Canon quote is ambiguous and can be interpreted in a multitude of ways, whereas the Legends quote is straightforward.

Also, if we take it to mean that Rebels is Vader's prime as a Force user, it would contradict what he displays in the comics:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111220339/4628388-tears+apart+a+at-at.png

He has to exert far more effort into merely lifting an AT-ST in Rebels, whereas around ANH he can tear apart an AT-AT with seemingly little effort.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Team 1. Dooku's ability to ragdoll isn't going to be of much use here. And in sabres they are outmatched. Tano dies unless you can provide a solid argument as to how she is significantly above Ventress in the force and has demonstrated feats which would prevent this from happening.

https://media.giphy.com/media/LkKoGCZMAFVN6/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Kurk
Tano dies unless you can provide a solid argument as to how she is significantly above Ventress in the force and has demonstrated feats which would prevent this from happening.

https://media.giphy.com/media/LkKoGCZMAFVN6/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Kurk
Tano dies unless you can provide a solid argument as to how she is significantly above Ventress in the force and has demonstrated feats which would prevent this from happening.

https://media.giphy.com/media/LkKoGCZMAFVN6/giphy.gif Not getting steamrolled by Vader, on a dark side nexus.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not getting steamrolled by Vader, on a dark side nexus.

Um, Vader kinda knocked out with one push. Sure she fell off a ledge but that honestly shouldn't incapacitate any Force user aside from fodder-tier.

And how well does Vader at that point compare to Dooku?

Probably tougher to beat, considering he was on a nexus.

And doubtlessly Sidious' favorite apprentice.

He gave everyone a beating except Ahsoka, who was kind of familiar with him.

Maybe she chose to rely on that wisdom instead of power, though. That's honestly the best explanation I have for any of what happened in that episode.

Originally posted by Azronger
It's the same damned thing, lol.




How exactly do the letters "E" and "U" stand for Legends?

I've already given you the definition of Expanded Universe which is in the forum rules.

Originally posted by Azronger


Yeah, by you.



You've been on these boards long enough to check the forum default rules.

Stop accusing me of making stuff up just because you're too lazy to check for yourself.

Didn't Filoni say Ahsoka had some form advantage over Vader or some sh!t?

Originally posted by Azronger


Also, if we take it to mean that Rebels is Vader's prime as a Force user, it would contradict what he displays in the comics:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111220339/4628388-tears+apart+a+at-at.png

He has to exert far more effort into merely lifting an AT-ST in Rebels, whereas around ANH he can tear apart an AT-AT with seemingly little effort.


Inconsistencies in different mediums is normal in SW.

You being more of a Legend fan should be used to that.

Originally posted by MythLord
Didn't Filoni say Ahsoka had some form advantage over Vader or some sh!t?


Just that she knows him well so knows how to fight him. He mentioned that once before the fight, but never again after the fight aired.


But hey, what happened to "they're both pros and know each other's moves so it's only realistic to make it a 2 second fight", when it came to Ahsoka vs Vader??

Originally posted by Azronger
Um, Vader kinda knocked out with one push. Sure she fell off a ledge but that honestly shouldn't incapacitate any Force user aside from fodder-tier.

No fodder would even last against Vader in an 1:40 engagement, on a dark side nexus, having just fought Maul for two minutes before hand, let alone retained the stamina to fully cushion themselves against a drop of several dozen feet, after having being Force pushed by an AT-AT crushing Force wielder. And neither would Ventress.

Vader would put Dooku in a blender.

Originally posted by MythLord
Didn't Filoni say Ahsoka had some form advantage over Vader or some sh!t? Kinda debunked by the part where Vader leads Ahsoka to believe that he is not Anakin, and that Anakin is dead.

On the other hand, Vader knows Ahsoka inside and out.

Fairly certain she knew it was still Anakin, but just with a different, evil identity.

AHSOKA: I was beginning to believe I knew who you were behind that mask, but it's impossible. My master could never be as vile as you.
VADER: Anakin Skywalker was weak. I destroyed him.
AHSOKA: Then I will avenge his death.

Nope, no.

Originally posted by Beniboybling


No fodder would even last against Vader in an 1:40 engagement, on a dark side nexus, having just fought Maul for two minutes before hand, let alone retained the stamina to fully cushion themselves against a drop of several dozen feet, after having being Force pushed by an AT-AT crushing Force wielder. And neither would Ventress.

Half of those things have nothing to do with power



According to what feats?

Ahsoka is a tier 7, not an 8.

If you say so.

Guess TCW Maul/Kenobi > Rebels Vader.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Dooku solos

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Yikes

Kenobi solos the other 3.

Originally posted by MythLord
Fairly certain she knew it was still Anakin, but just with a different, evil identity.
Dave clarifies she knew but didn't refused to believe it.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Kenobi solos the other 3.

Originally posted by Azronger
Half of those things have nothing to do with power I can only take a clueless statement like that to be a concession.

Tanking the explosion of a Sith super weapon, for starters.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
AHSOKA: I was beginning to believe I knew who you were behind that mask, but it's impossible. My master could never be as vile as you.
VADER: Anakin Skywalker was weak. I destroyed him.
AHSOKA: Then I will avenge his death.

Nope, no.

This is obviously in a much more philosophical and metaphorical sense; same as Obi saying Vader killing Anakin was true "from a certain point of view". I mean... she saw the goddamn vision of Anakin becoming Vader; Tano's either in some serious denial or she knows, but doesn't wanna admit it out loud.

For Vader, for Ahsoka she believed him. That's very obvious from her reaction. And she says from the beginning that she thinks him being Anakin is impossible, lel, a hallucination she had isn't exactly the most concrete of proof to the contrary.

Moreover, the attitude she takes when she realises it is in fact Anakin, is entirely different to before.

Wouldn't that technically mean Ahsoka is going all-out? Good, goood.

She tried to cut his head off, that was never in doubt.

Originally posted by MythLord
This is obviously in a much more philosophical and metaphorical sense; same as Obi saying Vader killing Anakin was true "from a certain point of view". I mean... she saw the goddamn vision of Anakin becoming Vader; Tano's either in some serious denial or she knows, but doesn't wanna admit it out loud.
Tano knows, yeah. She doesn't want to admit it though.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
For Vader, for Ahsoka she believed him. That's very obvious from her reaction. And she says from the beginning that she thinks him being Anakin is impossible, lel, a hallucination she had isn't exactly the most concrete of proof to the contrary.

Moreover, the attitude she takes when she realises it is in fact Anakin, is entirely different to before. Contrast her attitude before the fight started and then her reaction after the fight ended when he called out to her, and it's clear that she at least wasn't really consciously accepting of the fact until the end -- either that or she just didn't think it was Anakin, flat-out. I doubt she would've tried to behead him if she was like "yeah, that's totally Anakin."

Consciously she thought it wasn't Anakin, yeah, which is all that really matters.

Also, it's pretty hilarious how everyone wants to point out how Ahsoka supposedly had an advantage over Vader because she was his apprentice and knew his form, but they conveniently ignore the fact Vader was the person who actually trained her to fight and would therefore at the very least cancel her "advantage" out. And you gotta love how the same people who mention Ahsoka knowing Vader's form as a means of discrediting her feat are the same people who routinely deepthroat Kenobi's performance against Vader on Mustafar, despite that fight being a much more extreme example of form familiarity playing a role in combat.

An ignore similar circumstances regarding Kenobi vs Maul.

Originally posted by Kurk
Tano dies unless you can provide a solid argument as to how she is significantly above Ventress in the force and has demonstrated feats which would prevent this from happening.

https://media.giphy.com/media/LkKoGCZMAFVN6/giphy.gif

Lol. Ventress got destroyed

So then I guess this is the outcome of the fight?

https://youtu.be/sWGDqQDKHDU?t=6m4s

Originally posted by MythLord
Didn't Filoni say Ahsoka had some form advantage over Vader or some sh!t?
and vader trained ahsoka, so it cancels out.

also using vader sending kenobi off a cliff as rationale for dooku being able to ragdoll her is incredibly laughable.

As is trying to claim that kenobi's victory vs maul was via a massive gap between the two.

Kinda like taking the starwars.com quote implying maul>ahsoka and then dismissing feloni's implication of the opposite that comes after.