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1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All-Out

Cade in all.

Malgus in all.

Yeah malgus

Cade sweeps.

Darth Malgus in all - solidly.

Cade wins 'sabers.
Force - Malgus is probably more powerful, but Cade wrecking Talon is possibly just as good as Malgus wrecking Aryn. And DT could be a edge. Still leaning Malgus, tho.
All-Out: Prolly Cade.

Malgus takes all, though they're good fights.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Cade wins 'sabers.
Force - Malgus is probably more powerful, but Cade wrecking Talon is possibly just as good as Malgus wrecking Aryn. And DT could be a edge. Still leaning Malgus, tho.
All-Out: Prolly Cade.
Are you serious?

Cade, yeah.

Peak Malgus takes all.

Deceived Malgus vs Cade would be a better match up.

cade wrecks, contending with krayt easily puts him above.

Force wise if krayt can't avoid a saber duel by virtue of his tk and lightning, then neither can malgus

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Are you serious?
Yes

Malgus easily sweeps

Cade sweeps.

Cade. TOR characters are all terrible at everything.

I gravely doubt Cade could replicate his showings.

He can replicate the ones from Deceived.

Can't Force Choke 3 protagonists while manhandling the 4th. Or make them all kneel with Lightning.

He might take sabers, though. Probably does.

Manhandling meaning "engaging in 1-on-1 combat" in this case.

If krayt's tk and lightning can't put cade down, neither can malgus's

Considering Malgus is alive, it's best to wait what kind of explanation they're going to give for the battle.

They could always just say Morichro.

Doubt they're going to bring him back, though.

All we know is that he's certain to appear in a cutscene and that the sabotage of the Eternal Alliance is suspiciously similar to Malgus' operandi. There's also the fact that many exotic and high tech materials were supplied to the "rebels" and Malgus had been known to employ alien technicians and the such.

Malgus

Originally posted by Geistalt
Can't Force Choke 3 protagonists while manhandling the 4th. Or make them all kneel with Lightning.

He manhandled them so hard that he lost the fight. Cade could probably replicate that much.

You could also solo Malgus. Which Maybe we shouldn't use game mechanics as feats. Just a thought.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yes
On what grounds are you assuming that Cade Skywalker is a better swordsman than Darth Malgus?

Secondly, Aryn Leener > Darth Talon.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You could also solo Malgus. Which Maybe we shouldn't use game mechanics as feats. Just a thought.
Do we have an official assessment of that fight?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do we have an official assessment of that fight?

The official SWTOR site still says that flashpoint is a team quest or something so I doubt the solo fight is anything more than game mechanics.

Cade wins Force, loses sabers. Not positive about all-out.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
The official SWTOR site still says that flashpoint is a team quest or something so I doubt the solo fight is anything more than game mechanics.
That's not how that works. It says it's a flashpoint because...it's a flashpoint. Flashpoints by their very nature allow for as many people as you want to participate, and the number of people is acknowledged in the game. BioWare itself, however(despite constant claims to the otherwise), has never established a canon for TOR. SWTOR doesn't have a canon storyline. There are no canon decisions. There is no canon character for anything. And even if there was, SWTOR itself is a non canon work tantamount to fanfiction, and just as valid. The idea of anything happening just this way or that is an argument used by those on this forum and elsewhere to wank characters. Nothing more. There are encylopedia entries that some people are particularly fond of for making arguments, but as that was never meant to establish a certain canon to begin with, that's an invalid argument within itself. Even all that is beside the point because what is canon will never establish what is possible or valid, just what happened. Did Malgus fight one protagonist or four? What about two? Three? And who did he fight? The Hero of Tython? The Wrath? Cipher Nine? The answer is: none of the above. Malgus fought all of them and none of them, and any of those situations is just as valid a scenario as the rest. Does it matter that Malgus could fight four protagonists and still lose? Nope. Because Malgus can also fight one protagonist, any one protagonist. And still lose. That is all that matters.

Yeah. I doubt I need to remind you guys that in Revan's FP you fight HK-49 as a Strike Team, as well. I seriously question the idea that it would take the 4 protags to take down a droid.

Originally posted by Petrus
Yeah. I doubt I need to remind you guys that in Revan's FP you fight HK-49 as a Strike Team, as well. I seriously question the idea that it would take the 4 protags to take down a droid.

That's why you called it Revan's flashpoint and not HK's. The objective of the flashpoint is to take down Revan, HK is a sub boss.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
That's why you called it Revan's flashpoint and not HK's. The objective of the flashpoint is to take down Revan, HK is a sub boss.

Still, it's not like you take it down with ease. It takes 4 protags to defeat him and his small droid army. In reality, a single protag would be more than enough for Hk, lol.

Originally posted by Petrus
Still, it's not like you take it down with ease. It takes 4 protags to defeat him and his small droid army. In reality, a single protag would be more than enough for Hk, lol.

History wise, it takes 4 protags to take down Revan - who is the reason the strike team is assembled in the first place. HK being difficult to defeat is pure game mechanics.

Where is that ever said? Story-wise, they just give credit to whoever went, and in SoR, they just give credit to the protagonist who is there. You don't get to just arbitrarily decided what is and isn't game mechanics using boss fights. Either it's all, or nothing(unless stated to the contrary). Just like in story, it is acknowledged when you defeat Malgus solo. Until there is some sort of official storyline, i.e. never, you have to acknowledge all possibilities shown on screen. Maybe even after. If it were meant to be impossible, it wouldn't be possible to begin with.

Petrus stated that it took 4 protags to take HK down, I corrected him explanining that the objective of the mission is to stop Revan. What applies to Revan doesn't necessarily applies to HK, as a sub boss.

The fact flashpoints exist after all, is clearly indicator that, story wise, for that particular objective, a group of people is assembled. Otherwise, there'd be no reason for their existence at all. I'd also like to ask you: is Ant wrong when he stated the encyclopedia refers that it was a group that actually fought Malgus/Revan whatever?

I have no idea about what you're talking in reference to me deciding what is or what isn't game mechanics. HK being difficulty to defeat is certainly game mechanics - unless you think bosses in SWTOR can realisticaly suffer dozens of lightsabers wounds plus granades plus blaster fire before being defeated?!

You're making some serious leaps in logic if you think Revan being the objective somehow makes him have different rules apply to him. The objective of the mission was send an entire fleet at Malak. Or Vader. Or Vitiate. Or Krayt. I could go on. Still only took one Jedi. Being the objective isn't what decided any of those things. Those are all vastly different situations that require logical conclusions outside of being "the objective."

It actually isn't. Especially since storywise that's never said, and doing them solo is acknowledged by the story. Flashpoints only point to them being balanced for multiple people to do at once because it's an MMO. Even that isn't required anymore.And what Ant actually said is that the encyclopedia states a strike team was sent, by both sides no less, to face Malgus. I think it's pretty clear both sides didn't have teams inside the Emperor's Space Station, but regardless, the encyclopedia isn't even a canon for TOR let alone anything else. It was a pre-release reference guide that isn't even consistent within itself. That's not even mentioning it's consistency with the game. Acting like it determines anything is asinine.

Don't be dense. The point is, as I stated above, you are no the authority on what is and what is not difficult. HK being a hard boss fight is a game mechanic. So if Revan requiring four people to beat him, unless stated otherwise. Period. Or you think HK requires four people just like Revan did. You don't get to decide as it suits you.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You're making some serious leaps in logic if you think Revan being the objective somehow makes him have different rules apply to him. The objective of the mission was send an entire fleet at Malak. Or Vader. Or Vitiate. Or Krayt. I could go on. Still only took one Jedi. Being the objective isn't what decided any of those things. Those are all vastly different situations that require logical conclusions outside of being "the objective."

What?! I'm saying that if it takes four people to stop Revan to take control of the Foundry, it doesn't mean it takes 4 people to to defeat HK, or that it takes 4 people to take down fodder droids in the flashpoint. I'm not understanding what's your point at all.



What prevents Malgus from fighting two teams, by the way? The fact there are only four people there may simple be game mechanics, who knows.

Additionaly, the fact two teams are referred there gives more support to the team mode than the solo mode, regardless of TOR not having a canon story.



LMFAO. My comment about HK being difficult was a reply to Petrus, who considered him to be difficult to beat. So I never presumed myself to hold "authority on what is and what is not difficult."

You could've gone direct to the point and stated that you consider flashpoints to be completely game mechanics without any connection to the story at all. I'm going to disagree with you, especially if the closest material to a "canon" we've states otherwise.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
What?! I'm saying that if it takes four people to stop Revan to take control of the Foundry, it doesn't mean it takes 4 people to to defeat HK, or that it takes 4 people to take down fodder droids in the flashpoint. I'm not understanding what's your point at all.

You aren't difficult to understand; you just don't make any logical sense. You don't get to make that distinction because it suits your argument. It cannot get anymore clear than that. Obviously it doesn't take four people to defeat droids. Why should it take four people to defeat Revan because of that fact? No reason whatsoever. Those two things do not connect. "He's super duper powerful" is also not an argument. You need an in story reason for any argument you make. Point blank.


The fact that that there is only one team, for starters.

No, being factually incorrect about a scenario in game does not lend credence. In my experience, being wrong actually does the opposite.

You seem to think you are more difficult to understand than you are, while also constantly misunderstanding arguments. You aren't. You didn't even understand what Petrus said. The point is that HK "requires" a team in game for his fight. Revan "requires" a team in game for his fight. What logical reasoning are you making for a team being needed for one but not the other, when you are basing it solely on Revan being big, bad, and important? Nothing, really. Game mechanics are what make these two need teams to be faced. Game mechanics that both no longer require. Nothing in story says it takes a team, as opposed to SoR where it is said. This is not that hard to understand.

I sure could have, but that's not the point I was making so that would be absolutely retarded.

That's nice. Your disagreement isn't evidence within itself, however, nor does there being evidence make that evidence legitimate or your logic sound. You still have to actually make your point, and that point has to make sense.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Obviously it doesn't take four people to defeat droids. Why should it take four people to defeat Revan because of that fact? No reason whatsoever. Those two things do not connect. "He's super duper powerful" is also not an argument. You need an in story reason for any argument you make. Point blank.

My logic is quite the contrary actually: Just because it takes four people to take down Revan, it doesn't mean it takes four people to destroy the droids, including HK. Since you consider the composition of the strike teams indetermined on these flashpoints your problem isn't with my logic but with my assumption that strike team required four people.



The only mistake it makes is to assume two teams fought him simultaneously. The fact you can fight him with these two teams and the encyclopedia references these same two teams, I'd say, gives strong evidence to the group theory.



I'd suppose Foundry Revan also made reference to a team in the encyclopedia but I don't remember well. My remark about HK and Revan was based on that.



If you consider the solo mechanics were added after the initial boot, that the encyclopedia references a team fought him (in Malgus' case at last) and that, by my own assumption, flashpoints could have the intent to represent great challenges, I Occam Razor towards the team theory.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You could also solo Malgus. Which Maybe we shouldn't use game mechanics as feats. Just a thought. All that means is that a protagonist hypothetically could have beaten him all on their own.

Not that they did. Or would have.

For the record, the reason I consider game mechanics an accurate reflection of their respective characters' capabilities is because they tend to fairly portray what they can bring to bear.

And Malgus being able to bring them to their knees with Lightning and Force Push suggests he can do the same with Choke.

Originally posted by Geistalt
All that means is that a protagonist hypothetically could have beaten him all on their own.

Not that they did. Or would have.

For the record, the reason I consider game mechanics an accurate reflection of their respective characters' capabilities is because they tend to fairly portray what they can bring to bear.

And Malgus being able to bring them to their knees with Lightning and Force Push suggests he can do the same with Choke.
HOT being completely unaffected by a lengthy barrage of malgus's lightning despite malgus cheapshotting him doesn't help your argument here.

There's a little something called fatigue.

Obviously, an exhausted Malgus on the bring of dying isn't going to be able to use his full potency as easily as one that's ready to start a fight.

And that's not what the Hero did, anyways.

Originally posted by Geistalt
All that means is that a protagonist hypothetically could have beaten him all on their own.

Which is not a good thing.

Which is not an argument against any point I made nor is it the argument I made.

And no one cares about your opinion, so while that's all fine and dandy, it doesn't make any concrete points like actual dialogue does.

And he still lost, so you still don't have a point.

I don't know what it is with you people and TOR, but losing, no matter how spectacularly, is not a good showing. If you can choke out multiple people, even if it's determined by the number of people present not an actual measure of ability, and still lose you've only showed how incompetent you are.

The fact that you people think Malgus can choke out 3 people at once, but won't choke out all three when it's just three people, or everyone if it's just two(or no one at all when it's just one) shows just how retarded Malgus is if anything. Or it shows it's just a game mechanic. Pick one.

Originally posted by Geistalt
There's a little something called fatigue.

Obviously, an exhausted Malgus on the bring of dying isn't going to be able to use his full potency as easily as one that's ready to start a fight.

And at no point is Malgus ever sighted or even implied to be exhausted, for that matter.

Originally posted by Geistalt
And Malgus being able to bring them to their knees with Lightning

I don't know why people keep bringing this up like it's an impressive feat for Malgus. Like, the dude blasts the team with lightning--not one of them even defending themselves--then they just get back up and kill him. What on earth is impressive about that? That the team didn't just stand there with their hands in their pockets, whistling as they were being shocked? Congratulations, he's not an incompetent neophyte with sub-tazer level FL.

*brink

Goddamn autocorrect.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Which is not an argument against any point I made nor is it the argument I made It is when you contend that only 1 of the protagonists fought and killed him.

And didn't the SWTOR Encyclopedia say otherwise?

Fresh wasting time arguing about game mechanics for the 13224234 time.

Why not just discuss feats

As for the match not sure.

Cade's naturally more powerful in the force, but Malgus may or may not get new feats in the new expansion

Well, carthage, I get you're pretty slow on the up take, but the argument is that gae mechanics are feats. Which they aren't. Such problems you have with understanding would go away if you just learned to read, fam. Originally posted by Geistalt
*brink

Goddamn autocorrect.

It is when you contend that only 1 of the protagonists fought and killed him.

And didn't the SWTOR Encyclopedia say otherwise?
That is not my argument. The argument is that neve if a definite number given, so all those possibilities are equally valid. And the Encyclopedia, once again, does not establish a canon and contradicts itself and the game. Does that make it invalid? No. It just does not establish definite events. So saying things like, Malgus can lolchoke out three protags, therefore he beats Cade," ignores that Malgus can still lose one on one to people well bellow Cade. The fact that his choke is completely determined by game mechanics is besides the point.

You've been going on for pages about the same stupid shit you always go on with TOR phags. The only slow one is you for thinking you can change their minds, ****wit

Who's here to change minds? The point is for everyone else to think, not the person you're talking to. I'd also like to point out this thread is hardly even pages long. I make the same arguments because you people keep making the same threads. Sorry I like to keep myself consistent. And for the record, "slow on the uptake," doesn't mean you're slow. For future reference.