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Superman in a similar state of mind to hulk during WWH, faces the threats he took on. How far does he go?

1. Skrull Black Bolt on the moon,

2. Ares, She Hulk, Doc Samson

3. Super Hulk Buster Iron Man

4. The Fantastic Four

5. Zom Strange

6. Unleashed Sentry

No more than 5 minutes rest in between rounds. How far does he get?

Stops at 5.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Stops at 5.

This

Uses speed to beat Zom

I dont knos if hell make it past 5.

It wasnt really a fight that Huk won.

He possibly stops at 5, if not he sweeps it.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I dont knos if hell make it past 5.

It wasnt really a fight that Huk won.


Why don't you think Hulk won??

Originally posted by Damborgson
Why don't you think Hulk won??

Strange allowed Banner to win.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Why don't you think Hulk won?? I don't mean to speak for the guy, but i'm pretty sure it's questionable if Hulk really did win that fight seeing that he was getting his azz thrown around and the only reason Strange got subdued was because he had a ''moment'' of weakness.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Superman in a similar state of mind to hulk during WWH, faces the threats he took on. How far does he go?

1. Skrull Black Bolt on the moon,

2. Ares, She Hulk, Doc Samson

3. Super Hulk Buster Iron Man

4. The Fantastic Four

5. Zom Strange

6. Unleashed Sentry

No more than 5 minutes rest in between rounds. How far does he get?

YOU ARE A FILTHY, LOUSY, THREAD STEALER!!!!

AND WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT?!?! DON'T MAKE ME BRING THE THUNDER BOY!!!

World War Supes sounds like a Supes capable of outlier feats. I think he's gonna clear this.

(I reviewed the fight with Zom Strange: I don't see why someone at least as strong as WWH -- and a helluva lot faster + more powers he's creative with -- wouldn't do at least as well.)

Originally posted by Damborgson
AND WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT?!?! DON'T MAKE ME BRING THE THUNDER BOY!!!


Is that what you call your penis?
I'm just trying to gauge how scary this threat is.

Thunder boy is what he calls his gimp.

Originally posted by Damborgson
AND WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT?!?! DON'T MAKE ME BRING THE THUNDER BOY!!!



Originally posted by SamZED
Is that what you call your penis?
I'm just trying to gauge how scary this threat is.

OWAW Superman would stomp them all at the same time. With the pussy mindset of WWH? He stops at5.

Originally posted by Mindship
World War Supes sounds like a Supes capable of outlier feats. I think he's gonna clear this.

(I reviewed the fight with Zom Strange: I don't see why someone at least as strong as WWH -- and a helluva lot faster + more powers he's creative with -- wouldn't do at least as well.)


magic could be his down fall...especially with the way zom was piercing hulk

Stops at Ironman.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Why don't you think Hulk won??

Well I dont think he would have won on KMC.

Strange stopped to look at the little people or whatever. Pak made a big deal out of it.

Originally posted by carver9
Stops at Ironman.


If what Victor says here is true, it might stop a lot sooner than that ...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
magic could be his down fall...especially with the way zom was piercing hulk I was thinking about that ... but iirc, extreme versions of Supes often tend to handle magic better than "usual" (again, a WWS sounds like a Supes capable of outlier-type feats, so not so sure magic would be a big problem here; same with red-sun energy, or even kryptonite, though I could see this last one being closest to problematic).

In short: Superman's strength is not the only thing that seems to be *dynamic*.

Also, for what it's worth: I tend to see these types of stories (eg, WWH, Blood&Thunder Thor) as stories specifically designed to showcase the power of the character. So a WW Supes would be quite a fearsome beast, possibly one of the worst things that could befall the Comicverse.

Originally posted by Mindship
I was thinking about that ... but iirc, extreme versions of Supes often tend to handle magic better than "usual" (again, a WWS sounds like a Supes capable of outlier-type feats, so not so sure magic would be a big problem here; same with red-sun energy, or even kryptonite, though I could see this last one being closest to problematic).

In short: Superman's strength is not the only thing that seems to be *dynamic*.

Also, for what it's worth: I tend to see these types of stories (eg, WWH, Blood&Thunder Thor) as stories specifically designed to showcase the power of the character. So a WW Supes would be quite a fearsome beast, possibly one of the worst things that could befall the Comicverse.

Good post.

The problem I see with character centric arcs that showcase "power" over plot like WWH, B&T Odinson, Owaw, WW3 Bladam etc...is that the title character gets (imo a superficial or "mindset') boost while EVERYONE else performs at either less than optimal power levels or suffer from extreme cis.

Never are their opponents or or normal peers seen as rising to the same level as the protagonist. You may have one or two big bass getting in a few good licks or a peer appearing to rev up accordingly but those instances are temporary and usually used as a measuring stick for how far the main character has eclipsed them once they cut loose a little bit more.

It's be nice to read an arc where EVERYONE is going for broke instead of the main guy whilst every one seemingly holds back. That would make it easier to determine who's really the top dog instead of always guessing.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
The problem I see with character centric arcs that showcase "power" over plot like WWH, B&T Odinson, Owaw, WW3 Bladam etc...is that the title character gets (imo a superficial or "mindset') boost while EVERYONE else performs at either less than optimal power levels or suffer from extreme cis. Can't argue with this. Again, IIRC, wasn't there also an instance where Strange couldn't fight Hulk cuz Hulk broke the Doc's hands, thus he couldn't cast spells? This struck me as exactly what you're talking about.

It's be nice to read an arc where EVERYONE is going for broke instead of the main guy whilst every one seemingly holds back. That would make it easier to determine who's really the top dog instead of always guessing. I'd pay top dollar for this.

It's called Our Worlds at War.

i wasn't sure if that was the direction, or if it was more along the lines of the max lord/ww arc. if he just goes crazy angry, like what max did to him, or if he goes all out, like owaw, are 2 very different things. not sure what the intent here is.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Everyone. Hero/villain alike fought to the best of their ability in OWAW? EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER INVOLVED? They weren't holding back.

What you must understand is that characters in comics are never written in CBR-style. Writers aren't mathematicians, or spend months of their times arguing the very best use of the characters' abilities. There will always be a 'why didn't they fight EXACTLY the way I wanted to?!!' autistic-screeching from you, but that doesn't change the writers intent - which is that nobody was holding back, but Superman was still by far the most powerful.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Everyone. Hero/villain alike fought to the best of their ability in OWAW? EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER INVOLVED?

In my opinion most did. Kyle containing the power of a big bang. WW and AM amped to the teeth and taking out trans or skyfather threats. The threat was just bigger than WW3 Adam, WWH or Thor.

Stops at 5

Phil. The reason we have 50 years of giant green scissors isnt because the writers arent mathematicians?

Stops at 5. And people it's not Zom Strange, it's ZOMLING Strange. Strange only had a tiny portion of Zom's power.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Phil. The reason we have 50 years of giant green scissors isnt because the writers arent mathematicians? You've lost me, norvegian.

What?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If what Victor says here is true, it might stop a lot sooner than that ...

This was one of the reasons I said what I said. Large quantities of electricity has koed Superman and Ironman also had an adamantium spike that he used. If he use it anywhere close to the way he used it against WWH, the fight is done. He also have the physically strength to hang with Supes. The guy assisted in splitting New York in half during his scuffle against Hulk.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Why don't you think Hulk won??

He did win. It was shown that against a lot of WWH enemies, it took one punch to end the fight and that's exactly what happened in his fight against Zom. One solid hit.

Originally posted by zopzop
Stops at 5. And people it's not Zom Strange, it's ZOMLING Strange. Strange only had a tiny portion of Zom's power. Agreed. Hulk would lost that fight if the plot wasnt in his favor

Originally posted by Sin I AM
There has never been a canon comic book arc. Where EVERY SINGLE CHAR involved fought to the absolute BEST of their abilities (plot be damned) The fact that you repeat this 'best of their abilities plot be damned' shows that you really can't grasp what I typed, and can't differentiate between forum abilities and comic book stories/writers intentions. The characters weren't holding back, yet Superman was portrayed by far away the most powerful.

Being a douche has nothing to do with my argument, I just like ruffling your feathers. It's a bonus.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
And yet the point continues to escape you so I will repeat it ad nauseam. We derive "forum abilities " from on panel showings. We don't just pull shit out of our collective asses. Not sure why you're peddling that particular brand of bs.


No feathers to ruffle..just stating the obv.

We spend months cataloguing every feat based on decades of history to maximize the abilities of characters. Writers don't do that.

If we have clear portrayals of characters going all-out, and Superman being clearly above everyone else, we don't go into retarded semantics of how we'd have written the fight.

If we go by your abhorrent stupidity, no comic book fight would ever matter, no matter the intent of the writers, because of how each of us would personally write the fights.

It's astonishing that this has to be explained to you.

Originally posted by carver9
This was one of the reasons I said what I said. Large quantities of electricity has koed Superman and Ironman also had an adamantium spike that he used. If he use it anywhere close to the way he used it against WWH, the fight is done. He also have the physically strength to hang with Supes. The guy assisted in splitting New York in half during his scuffle against Hulk. Electricity koing Superman are very low showings (do you have scans of this?) just like every character has. Superman has tanked far greater energy many many times.

No one here has the strength to hang with Superman under these stips, especially in a forum fight.

You're like a broken robot, who can't help but repeat the same thing over again.

Change your batteries, read some comics, and then hit me up.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Everyone. Hero/villain alike fought to the best of their ability in OWAW? EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER INVOLVED?
"To the best of their abilities " has to be well defined. If you and others have a different meaning of the term then it any discussion about it can't take place.

Characters in comics are operating at average levels unless there is evidence that they aren't.

We assume characters are fighting to the best of their ability in a comic unless counter evidence exists. For example, Spidey not being able to respond to a 200mph punch is him not fighting to the best of his ability.

Holding back is a totally different discussion.

In summary, characters are operating at average levels unless shown or stated differently. Characters fighting stupidly, or not fighting smart as shown before, has no bearing on forum fight.

Superman has ftl reflexes and perception and great speed. He should clear without any difficulties.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Concession accepted. Moving on....

Originally posted by h1a8
Electricity koing Superman are very low showings (do you have scans of this?) just like every character has. Superman has tanked far greater energy many many times.

No one here has the strength to hang with Superman under these stips, especially in a forum fight.

If the jist of your post is "Superman won't lose to Iron Man" then yes I agree.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Concession accepted. Moving on.... I said change your batteries, not take quanchi's motherboard.

Now you might be the first trans-stupid person.

Lmao.

owaw superman clears. max lord superman likely loses to zom but would have beaten sentry.

Originally posted by h1a8
"To the best of their abilities " has to be well defined. If you and others have a different meaning of the term then it any discussion about it can't take place.

Characters in comics are operating at average levels unless there is evidence that they aren't.

We assume characters are fighting to the best of their ability in a comic unless counter evidence exists. For example, Spidey not being able to respond to a 200mph punch is him not fighting to the best of his ability.

Holding back is a totally different discussion.

In summary, characters are operating at average levels unless shown or stated differently. Characters fighting stupidly, or not fighting smart as shown before, has no bearing on forum fight.

Superman has ftl reflexes and perception and great speed. He should clear without any difficulties.

H1 I get it. Seriously...i even "get " Phil's lackluster attempt at proving his point. I understand writers intent, powerset debating, whatever it is we do here at kmc..got it.


My whole thing was it would be nice to read a story arc where the playing field was level and everyone went ham. Imagine a comic book style royal rumble without Stephanie/Hunter/Vince pre-determining the winner. What if instead of throwing punches Logan popped his claws? What if instead of holding back Batman snapped limbs? Etc...u only see that stuff in elseworlds where dismemberment and character deaths aren't a big deal. I wouldnt even mind if the whole thing got retconned immediately after. Itd be nice to see.

Originally posted by SamZED
Is that what you call your penis?
I'm just trying to gauge how scary this threat is.

Your the first to see through to the real danger, I'm impressed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thunder boy is what he calls his gimp.

Or Kid Thunderstrike.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
H1 I get it. Seriously...i even "get " Phil's lackluster attempt at proving his point. I understand writers intent, powerset debating, whatever it is we do here at kmc..got it.


My whole thing was it would be nice to read a story arc where the playing field was level and everyone went ham. Imagine a comic book style royal rumble without Stephanie/Hunter/Vince pre-determining the winner. What if instead of throwing punches Logan popped his claws? What if instead of holding back Batman snapped limbs? Etc...u only see that stuff in elseworlds where dismemberment and character deaths aren't a big deal. I wouldnt even mind if the whole thing got retconned immediately after. Itd be nice to see.

So, your criticism is they don't fight out of character?

Originally posted by Mindship
World War Supes sounds like a Supes capable of outlier feats. I think he's gonna clear this.

(I reviewed the fight with Zom Strange: I don't see why someone at least as strong as WWH -- and a helluva lot faster + more powers he's creative with -- wouldn't do at least as well.) Strange was resisting Zom and letting hulk pound on him at that point, He was easily above wwhulk.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Strange was resisting Zom and letting hulk pound on him at that point, He was easily above wwhulk. Then he might actually give WWS a decent workout.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So, your criticism is they don't fight out of character?

Not at all. It's that they don't fight to their best

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Not at all. It's that they don't fight to their best

So what's "to their best?" Your post I quoted sure seemed to be "their best" is fighting out of character.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Not at all. It's that they don't fight to their best

Politics, mostly. You can only make other characters look so bad before editors and executives will tell you to scale it back.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So what's "to their best?" Your post I quoted sure seemed to be "their best" is fighting out of character.




Wait, you mean Superman DOESN'T rip the arms off of people in character?

What character have I been reading about all these years, then?!?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider


Wait, you mean Superman DOESN'T rip the arms off of people in character?

What character have I been reading about all these years, then?!?

Originally posted by Delta1938
So what's "to their best?" Your post I quoted sure seemed to be "their best" is fighting out of character.

Best as in fighting intelligently without holding back without outside amps or explicit weaknesses...under their own power

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Best as in fighting intelligently without holding back without outside amps or explicit weaknesses...under their own power

So by "intelligently" you mean fighting in ways they don't normally?

Originally posted by krisblaze
I dont knos if hell make it past 5.

It wasnt really a fight that Huk won.

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulk/aawwh03017.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulk/aawwh03017.jpg

lol Hulk won because of a plot device

Duh

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
lol Hulk won because of a plot device His fists?

He was holding back heavily yet still had what it took to make Strange go night night. "The little people" angle makes little impact when hulk was considering them a lot more than Strange was.

Is WWH still as hard to understand as string theory on kmc? It's been almost 10 years

Originally posted by psycho gundam
His fists?

He was holding back heavily yet still had what it took to make Strange go night night. "The little people" angle makes little impact when hulk was considering them a lot more than Strange was.

Is WWH still as hard to understand as string theory on kmc? It's been almost 10 years Strange wasnt fighting

Comas tend to have that effect

I know that the board rules--and particularly their application--can be complex, convoluted, and even contradictory. I don't really want to get into that other than to say that I don't think we have any business trying to discern whether a character 'fought at their best' based on what abilities they use or don't use. Comics simply have never worked that way--they are far, far from realistic.
Rather, I try to discern what the writer is telling us. If the writer is telling us that Flash fought as hard as he could, then even if he didn't go FTL or use a chain of infinite mass punches, he's still considered to have done his best.
As for the topic at hand, I want to say that even though OWAW is the most explicit account of Superman dropping the gloves and accessing a kind of dynamic power, it still only represents the take of a few writers and editors at a given time in Superman's history. We can't use it as the only benchmark for 'All Out Superman'. Other writers may not have had Superman seem to go quite as all out, but you can infer--based on what their version of Superman did and did not do when becoming highly motivated--that they probably don't envision Superman as being quite as potentially powerful as the OWAW team did.
That said, if we wish to specify that the Superman in this fight is the unleashed Superman from OWAW, then we are dealing with a very extreme portrayal. And that Superman--taken at his Probe-busting peak--seems at least as capable as WWH was. I think he can clear this list at least as easily as WWH did. Granted, the fight against Zomling Strange may have been Strange's to win, and it's possible that just as Strange might have beaten Hulk had special circumstances not arisen, so to might he have beaten OWAW SUperman.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
I know that the board rules--and particularly their application--can be complex, convoluted, and even contradictory. I don't really want to get into that other than to say that I don't think we have any business trying to discern whether a character 'fought at their best' based on what abilities they use or don't use. Comics simply have never worked that way--they are far, far from realistic.
Rather, I try to discern what the writer is telling us. If the writer is telling us that Flash fought as hard as he could, then even if he didn't go FTL or use a chain of infinite mass punches, he's still considered to have done his best.
As for the topic at hand, I want to say that even though OWAW is the most explicit account of Superman dropping the gloves and accessing a kind of dynamic power, it still only represents the take of a few writers and editors at a given time in Superman's history. We can't use it as the only benchmark for 'All Out Superman'. Other writers may not have had Superman seem to go quite as all out, but you can infer--based on what their version of Superman did and did not do when becoming highly motivated--that they probably don't envision Superman as being quite as potentially powerful as the OWAW team did.
That said, if we wish to specify that the Superman in this fight is the unleashed Superman from OWAW, then we are dealing with a very extreme portrayal. And that Superman--taken at his Probe-busting peak--seems at least as capable as WWH was. I think he can clear this list at least as easily as WWH did. Granted, the fight against Zomling Strange may have been Strange's to win, and it's possible that just as Strange might have beaten Hulk had special circumstances not arisen, so to might he have beaten OWAW SUperman.

Good post. Can you see WWH damaging/breaking through probes?

Like Superman in OWAW, WWH had at least a kind of upward progression in terms of the power levels he attained, culminating with Hulk matching Sentry in a raw-power off--perhaps the weakest Sentry portrayal, but clearly indicative of a significant power boost from anything we had seen before.
Hulk may have been able to lay waste to a few Probes if he could have ascended to the levels he showed against the Sentry at the end of WWH. Whether he could have inflicted the kind of carnage Superman and Doomsday did is hard to say. It's possible--we are, after all, dealing with two heroes having highly dynamic power. Every conjecture should be seen through this lens, and taken with a grain or two of salt; writers would be free to write either Superman or Hulk, at these levels, in virtually any way they want.
But for context, Superman was, apperently, one-shotting Probes with heat vision--Probes that had previously been beyond his toughest blows and and had laid waste to the JLA.

Oh, and I doubt speed would play a significant part. The writers will often let someone like Superman show off their speed to beat an opponent they could have on power alone; but it's rare where they let speed be a decisive factor in a battle between otherwise evenly matched top tiers.
Just recently, DC thumbed their noses at those who want realism from speed. They had the new Superman punch Doomsday like 4,000 plus times in a row, and it did...nothing. Or very little, at the most.

I think something resembling that would be Onslaught. Every hero and villain on Earth, including some of the smartest beings on the planet gathered together to stop Onslaught but they were nothing but flies to him. Hulk then jumps in and not only match a being that was carrying an abstract in him but punched him into small pieces. Or his fight against Rulk who was ripping through everyone with ease. All characters have this, I think Superman is brought up more because he has more fans that tend to highlight his highs.

Here's where we part company. Many heroes have this kind of overdrive from time to time. But I think there is a difference between most heroes and, certainly Hulk, and also Superman, on this score. It's not really just about fans or appearances. Some kind of dynamic power mechanism has been an established, if not primary, feature of the Superman mythos for a long time. even without the various explanations, the variability of Superman's performances has long been greater than that of other top tiers.
Blood and Thunder is not Thor's OWAW, by any means. Thor doesn't regularly outpower and outperform multiple elite top tiers at once on a regular basis. I'm not saying we tale Superman's highs as his typical level. I don't know exactly what I'm saying--Supes is hard to rate. All I'm saying is that there is clearly something special about him when it comes to his ability to take it up a notch or two.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
His fists?

He was holding back heavily yet still had what it took to make Strange go night night. "The little people" angle makes little impact when hulk was considering them a lot more than Strange was.

Is WWH still as hard to understand as string theory on kmc? It's been almost 10 years

We didn't really see any durability stuff from zomstrange.

All we got was that Huk was getting destroyed, Strange stopped and then Huk took him out.

He took a hell of a beating without getting splattered by punches that can in a single hit: take out Thing/Ares/she-hulk; make Darwin teleport away when his powers are threat adaptation; almost give Strong guy a heart attack even though his power is to absorb kinetic energy to make him stronger (post Forge pacemaker), etc

Those are his durability feats

Yeah, when you think about it WWH has ****-all for feats.

Strong guy's pacemaker was obviously forgotten and even if it wasn't, so what?

He also took depowered Jugs out on a single hit who withstood blows from Thor, Red Hulk, King Hyperion (who was hitting him with the power of the sun) etc...

Originally posted by carver9
He also took depowered Jugs out on a single hit who withstood blows from Thor, Red Hulk, King Hyperion (who was hitting him with the power of the sun) etc...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CNitU1YJgzE/Uooey0i4wHI/AAAAAAAAFFM/rdeLk70UKf8/s1600/Hero-Envy-Hulk-vs-Juggernaut.jpg


Funny how a single hit can look like 4 some days.

Damn

Juggernaut who had been steadily hetting weakef.

This was after mi16 even, where the wrecking crew destroyed him

Wow, carver lying about a Hulk feat. Would have never guessed.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider


Wait, you mean Superman DOESN'T rip the arms off of people in character?

What character have I been reading about all these years, then?!?

Interestingly, neither did Hulk, really.

Until the WWH storyline.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Wow, carver lying about a Hulk feat. Would have never guessed. lol his only response is "damn"

Originally posted by iceman24567
lol his only response is "damn" I bet it was a "damn" that's impressive comment though.

Insane doesn't have any personality.

And you have no credibility.

Heyo!

In re-reading WWH, his actual combat feats are less impressive than I remembered. Nowhere does he have a straight-up win over any other elite top tier, much less beat, or be implied to be capable of beating, multiple elite top tiers in a fair fight. His win over amped Strange required a bit of an own goal on Strange's part. He had to BFR Juggernaut, and fought him rather evenly.
Still, the Hulk is and almost been the one hero with a truly dynamic power level. And he clearly becomes significantly more powerful when fighting Sentry. And then becomes the Worldbreaker or whatnot. So he's certainly implied to have become very powerful, but it's hard to know exactly how powerful he became at any given point. But his fights were actually a bit of a let down. Where are his beatdowns of groups like Thor, Gladiator, and Hercules? Or say a clear, one-sided beatdown of say Silver Surfer? Once Superman starts beating Probes, he's effectively implied to be operating on that kind of level. Once he starts laying waste to hordes of them with ease, he's clearly implied to be operating at some other, higher--insanely high--level.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
In re-reading WWH, his actual combat feats are less impressive than I remembered. Nowhere does he have a straight-up win over any other elite top tier, much less beat, or be implied to be capable of beating, multiple elite top tiers in a fair fight. His win over amped Strange required a bit of an own goal on Strange's part. He had to BFR Juggernaut, and fought him rather evenly.
Still, the Hulk is and almost been the one hero with a truly dynamic power level. And he clearly becomes significantly more powerful when fighting Sentry. And then becomes the Worldbreaker or whatnot. So he's certainly implied to have become very powerful, but it's hard to know exactly how powerful he became at any given point. But his fights were actually a bit of a let down. Where are his beatdowns of groups like Thor, Gladiator, and Hercules? Or say a clear, one-sided beatdown of say Silver Surfer? Once Superman starts beating Probes, he's effectively implied to be operating on that kind of level. Once he starts laying waste to hordes of them with ease, he's clearly implied to be operating at some other, higher--insanely high--level.

It was kind of hard for him to gather those fts because remember, his intentions wasn't to hurt anyone, just gather the people that shipped him off. So he held back the entire time against basically everyone which is the reason he did not drag his fight out against Juggernaut, the reason he didn't kill Hercules and the reason he had a huge speech against Sentry asking him to basically stand down due to his mission. Even after Ironman bombed him and attacked him, he didn't finish it. He didn't critically injure anyone and toyed with Ghost Rider. This is why I say it's best to use Hulk AFTER world at War. Same Hulk but a more serious Hulk and based off his showings afterwards, he was most definitely operating at high trans levels. He took it up a notch whereas he held back tremendously during World at War.

Yes, but aren't you the guy who focusses on fights, rather than feats?

Why when I post in threads, right after Darksaint posts? It's ludicrous.

In all seriousness, we don't need to see a more powerful Hulk take it to a powerful team, we have weaker versions of the Hulk that have accomplished this. World at War was more of a lip service for Hulk to prepare us for the full power of this character after the arc. This same Hulk brushed aside the entire Avengers line up and outright said that none of them stood a chance against him and this was an Avengers team that had Heralds and tbe fantastic 4 backing them. That's why I say it's best to use Green Scar in the thread title. Same Hulk but we are able to use his true potential but too many people don't know about the character, so this is ignored.

And a far weaker Superman achieves some great nifty little feats.

Let's extrapolate, rather than use the actual showings.

Also, why do you keep calling it World at War??

Originally posted by carver9
Insane doesn't have any personality. I have more personality that a lying, fake, double standard coward like you.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
I have more personality THAN a lying, fake, double standard coward like you.

Let me retype your sentence for you. From this point on, I will assist you in your consistent spelling errors. I'm always here to help. Also, I provided a site for you that will help. "10 ways of gaining personality"...

http://m.wikihow.com/Get-the-Perfect-Personality

I see a great future for you with more friends.

See how easily Carver shits the bed after co-opting my momentum to attempt to make a point? Ride your own wave

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
In re-reading WWH, his actual combat feats are less impressive than I remembered. Nowhere does he have a straight-up win over any other elite top tier, much less beat, or be implied to be capable of beating, multiple elite top tiers in a fair fight. His win over amped Strange required a bit of an own goal on Strange's part. He had to BFR Juggernaut, and fought him rather evenly.
Still, the Hulk is and almost been the one hero with a truly dynamic power level. And he clearly becomes significantly more powerful when fighting Sentry. And then becomes the Worldbreaker or whatnot. So he's certainly implied to have become very powerful, but it's hard to know exactly how powerful he became at any given point. But his fights were actually a bit of a let down. Where are his beatdowns of groups like Thor, Gladiator, and Hercules? Or say a clear, one-sided beatdown of say Silver Surfer? Once Superman starts beating Probes, he's effectively implied to be operating on that kind of level. Once he starts laying waste to hordes of them with ease, he's clearly implied to be operating at some other, higher--insanely high--level. You answered your own questions in this very post. He walked through teams while heavily holding back which is consistent with the fact that hulk has always been a team buster, but as Green scar his base strength was that of an enraged Savage Hulk so effort wasn't required to replicate it in one short arc. It was painfully obvious what would have happened if he tried to flex his muscles for real. The Red hulk arc showed that even an amped Thor would have probably lost to the same Hulk in WWH not to mention Worldbreaker levels of power output.

The fact that he literally said and was shown to be holding back is enough to finally put this topic to bed, right?

Hulk's status with Thor, Gladiator, etc was already established prior to WWH so a child should be able to understand this

WWH is great in writers intent, but not in showings.

If I'd have been called Incredible Hulk #435-439, nobody would have cared, and it would have been seen as a poor man's Blood & Thunder.

No Thor.
No Surfer.
Stalemate Juggernaut.
Stalemate Sentry.
Zomish-Strange was kicking his shit in, but for CIS.

Big f*cking meh.

He was saved from Iron Man by sabotage, and he was actually devolved by some randomers and had his neck snapped.

Savage was able to power through devolution and transmutation, for example.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was saved from Iron Man by sabotage, and he was actually devolved by some randomers and had his neck snapped.

Savage was able to power through devolution and transmutation, for example.



There's literally nothing there that would make me go "damn, that's impressive".

It was Hulk vs kid-powerlevels, while all the big guns were away or skrulls. And the moment he encountered two 'big' guns (Juggernaut and Sentry), it was same old.

Like I said - poor man's Blood & Thunder.

He was restraining himself. That's all I want to convey here

Shut up, carver.

Originally posted by carver9
Let me retype your sentence for you. From this point on, I will assist you in your consistent spelling errors. I'm always here to help. Also, I provided a site for you that will help. "10 ways of gaining personality"...

http://m.wikihow.com/Get-the-Perfect-Personality

I see a great future for you with more friends. true sign of desperation picking up on auto correct.

Don't try and be smart ass as everyone knows what I said about you is true, after all just look at your "ignore list" you like to have on your sig. funny how you always comment on the posts you supposedly ignore.

Delta has already filled me in on what type of human being you are , fake, double standard and coward are spot on for you.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
True sign of desperation picking up on auto corrects.

Don't try and be A smart ass as everyone know what I said about you is true. After all, just look at your "ignore list" you have on your sig. Funny how you always comment on the posts you supposedly ignore.

Delta has already filled me in on what type of human being you are; fake, double standard and A coward are spot on for you.

I have a lot of work to do here.

I'm not really disputing the implied power shown in WWH. I was just noting that he didn't get any real marquee fights is all.
I don't think he was holding back against Juggernaut, mind you (though he was pressed for time). But he was pressed for time. But Juggs' level of invulnerability--even at full power--is hardly depicted with any consistency. The WWH writer could have meant to portray a Juggernaut who is virtually immune to harm, even from the upper tiers. So the fact that Hulk could even hurt him might have been incredibly impressive. Or it might not.

Originally posted by carver9
I have a lot of work to do here. funny that you still are reading ignored posters comments eh.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
I'm not really disputing the implied power shown in WWH. I was just noting that he didn't get any real marquee fights is all.
I don't think he was holding back against Juggernaut, mind you (though he was pressed for time). But he was pressed for time. But Juggs' level of invulnerability--even at full power--is hardly depicted with any consistency. The WWH writer could have meant to portray a Juggernaut who is virtually immune to harm, even from the upper tiers. So the fact that Hulk could even hurt him might have been incredibly impressive. Or it might not.

Well, it was his rebirth. I'm sure Jugs would be portrayed as extremely high end. Kind of like how he was during his rebirth when he came out of the gem after onslaught trapped him...more powerful than ever. Then it also helps that Pak thinks Jugs has unlimited power.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2ns5ces.jpg

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/gifs/flea_zpsxn59od7y.gif

K let me flesh this out out:

Thor/Surfer um well Thor was dead and Surfer was off doing his own thing. They fought in the arc preceding it so writing in either of those guys into a 5 issue mini on top of all the other characters involved makes very little sense. Thor soon returns to the living with an amp and fights a character in the class of savage Hulk and loses round 1 then wins round 2. The same Hulk from WWH wrecks Red hulk casually. Say what you will but there is a lot to expound on to clearly show Green scar is physically above classic Thor. Hercules getting shit on needs no further explanation (but I will lol)

Stalemating Juggernaut was the best showing for classic Juggernaut since.....his 1-issue 1 off? Maybe since Ex-calibur...idunno. Hulk's revenge was a vehicle for him to get re-empowered but still got thrown away like trash and Hulk was heavily restraining his power by several magnitudes. Imagine that one Juggernaut fan getting their old thing back and then seeing him get tossed in the bushes like that. War Hulk already embarrassed him and Mindless Hulk outperformed him massively, not to mention in their first ever confrontation Hulk BFR'd him even easier than that. The main take away is that Juggernaut was the one actually trying whereas Hulk clearly wasn't. There wouldn't have been an East coast if he fought for real

Strange Got bodied by a stronger fighter. He was a glass cannon so it was a matter of time till he got hit and when he did he started seeing Jack Kirby's visage with warm lights beckoning him to a place safe from the pain. He definitely forget a lot of spells after that (enter depowered Strange)

Sentry Same as Juggernaut. He fought hard but he didn't have enough yet we know Hulk had more. Everyone whose fav has a cape had to explain why they were sitting in their own feces as they read it. It was a good fight visually and at least on this forum it was the event of the month. Stop lying about how you all anticipated it and enjoyed it

There are about 50 more characters that got stomped but some choice names:

Black bolt Sure he was a Skrull but then the Secret invasion showed how well they are adept at copying powers, not to mention the damage to the moon during their fight

Hercules....Straight up Pimp/ho scene. Hulk's punches are just different, my guy

http://i68.tinypic.com/126d0zd.jpg

Massive post of pathetic bias.

That read like a carver post, and I'm not even joking.

Originally posted by carver9
Damn

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Massive post of pathetic bias. That Hercules panel gets you every time. It's funny cause you expected a different outcome when Hercules has never fared that well even with Savage Hulk. Sentry was the hope of the the entire squad of Earth based heroes and even he wasn't taken completely seriously.

@Phildo

Fix your screen name or whatever it is that prevents proper responses cause you bring up points that are actually worthy of debate at times....Nihilist doesn't so here we are. Never liken me to Carver ever again in life. He's someone I wouldn't mind choking out and retaining the image of their face while their eyes glaze over. That image being burned in my mind would be a sleep aid rather than a sleep hindrance.

I PM'ed Raz to change my username.

It will be done by 2020.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
That Hercules panel gets you every time. It's funny cause you expected a different outcome when Hercules has never fared that well even with Savage Hulk. Sentry was the hope of the the entire squad of Earth based heroes and even he wasn't taken completely seriously.

@Phildo

Fix your screen name or whatever it is that prevents proper responses cause you bring up points that are actually worthy of debate at times....Nihilist doesn't so here we are. Never liken me to Carver ever again in life. He's someone I wouldn't mind choking out and retaining the image of their face while their eyes glaze over. That image being burned in my mind would be a sleep aid rather than a sleep hindrance. as usual you're wrong. Your carver lvl bias shines through in that post. Here didn't want to fight and let Hukk beat on him, it's stated on panel ffs.

But continue with f@g crying routine eh "true debater"

It doesn't take a genius to know that whatever conditions you want ot put onto him to make it sting less in your heart, Wolverine's durability is far higher than Hercules'.

As for his offensive capabilities (being a Thor class guy (debatable)): there's kinda this system created based on Hercules' punch power used to gauge things around the hulk related events so save yourself further embarrassment

Make a Sentry vs Hercules thread and try your best to overcome even Sentrry's low showings if you can. I'll stay out of it but I will check to see how well you swim upstream

Originally posted by Insane Titan
as usual you're wrong. Your carver lvl bias shines through in that post. Here didn't want to fight and let Hukk beat on him, it's stated on panel ffs.

But continue with f@g crying routine eh "true debater"

There's really no need for that kind of talk.

Do you honestly expect anything more refined from him?

Psycho killing bitches left and right.

Shame he's wrong though.

Carver Gundam.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Superman in a similar state of mind to hulk during WWH

https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/wwh_xmen_3_dcp_0007.jpg

Superman throws all of them to the moon.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/4209151-7610196334-17848.jpg

Superman's average fighting state is quite similar to WWH.

Konvikt wou l don't have one punched WWH. I can name more if you want.

Originally posted by carver9
Let me retype your sentence for you. From this point on, I will assist you in your consistent spelling errors. I'm always here to help. Also, I provided a site for you that will help. "10 ways of gaining personality"...

http://m.wikihow.com/Get-the-Perfect-Personality

I see a great future for you with more friends.

Carter, if only you knew the irony that's left your anus bleeding.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Never liken me to Carver ever again in life. He's someone I wouldn't mind choking out and retaining the image of their face while their eyes glaze over. That image being burned in my mind would be a sleep aid rather than a sleep hindrance.



Shut up caver.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Superman throws all of them to the moon.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/4209151-7610196334-17848.jpg

Superman wasn't even at full power there.

Originally posted by carver9
Konvikt wou l don't have one punched WWH. I can name more if you want.

Originally posted by carver9
Let me retype your sentence for you. From this point on, I will assist you in your consistent spelling errors. I'm always here to help.

Carver, hello!

OP said Supes is in the mindset of WWH. So what he does with Konvikt, is moot.

WWH wasn't there to fight. Remember what a notable poster said:

Originally posted by carver9
It was kind of hard for him to gather those fts because remember, his intentions wasn't to hurt anyone,

So Superman will just BFR them all. Just like WWH did with Juggy, did with Monet, did with Wolverine etc.

Except, he's much faster. And stronger

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver, hello!

Don't do that.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
It doesn't take a genius to know that whatever conditions you want ot put onto him to make it sting less in your heart, Wolverine's durability is far higher than Hercules'.

As for his offensive capabilities (being a Thor class guy (debatable)): there's kinda this system created based on Hercules' punch power used to gauge things around the hulk related events so save yourself further embarrassment

Make a Sentry vs Hercules thread and try your best to overcome even Sentrry's low showings if you can. I'll stay out of it but I will check to see how well you swim upstream you totally miss the point carver jnr. Beating on a guy not wanting to fight and allowing himself to get beat on isn't a great showing for Hulk no matter what damage he did to Hercules.

WWH could even put down Meik whilst trying to kill him.

Originally posted by carver9
Konvikt wou l don't have one punched WWH. I can name more if you want.



Carver, I'm not really sure what you wrote here, but what you're referring to is probably the following:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13851254

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13851255

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13851258


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Story Title: "Kplow!"
Source: Trinity #3, Volume 1
Writer: Kurt Busiek
Penciller: Mark Bagley
Date: June 2008
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Trinity_Vol_1_3

Originally posted by -Pr-
There's really no need for that kind of talk. So after everything said in this thread, the first time you chip in is on my comment.Originally posted by psycho gundam
Do you honestly expect anything more refined from him? playing the victim card Mr holier than thou.

Originally posted by carver9
Konvikt wou l don't have one punched WWH. I can name more if you want.


The "Konvickt" clips above in easier to view for everyone (at least currently) format ...

https://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/34561285_image.jpg https://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/34561286_image.jpg https://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/34561287_image.jpg

Reference info given in my previous post on this page.

Originally posted by carver9
Konvikt wou l don't have one punched WWH. I can name more if you want.

Meant to say Konvikt wouldn't not have one punched WWH.

Not surprising in the least Blue leaves out things.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
The "Konvickt" clips above in easier to view for everyone (at least currently) format ...

https://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/34561285_image.jpg https://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/34561286_image.jpg https://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/34561287_image.jpg

Reference info given in my previous post on this page.

Stuff like this rarely if ever happens to Hulk. I'm talking about things like this (he almost died after this hit)...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/12780/2166607-jla_classified__51_022.jpg

Happened again here...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/121335/2343973-jlaclassified50022.jpg

Or here...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/27470/983536-jlajsavv_84.jpg

One hit koes across the board. There are more showings as well. This doesn't happen to Hulk, AT ALL. Maybe in his classic days but within 15 yrs, it ain't happening because Hulk is usually physical overwhelming. No writer would write Hulk facing any of these opponents and dropping during the beginning of the encounter. No, just no.

Oh you two.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
you totally miss the point carver jnr. Beating on a guy not wanting to fight and allowing himself to get beat on isn't a great showing for Hulk no matter what damage he did to Hercules.

WWH could even put down Meik whilst trying to kill him. So he lowered his ability to take damage, is this what you're trying to say? I'll rephrase it cause we've done this same thing before at least thrice and it's still not clicking with you: was Hercules' willingness to fight any impact on his ability to take Hulk's punches?

Carver is one of the greatest men I have ever known.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
So after everything said in this thread, the first time you chip in is on my comment. playing the victim card Mr holier than thou.

Find me someone that used language as worse as yours before you did, and I'll tell them off too.

There's no excuse for that, especially not "but someone else did it".

==

Carver, stop lying.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
So he lowered his ability to take damage, is this what you're trying to say? I'll rephrase it cause we've done this same thing before at least thrice and it's still not clicking with you: was Hercules' willingness to fight any impact on his ability to take Hulk's punches? if he's not willing to fight, Herc is going to get danger far easier.

You act like Hercules is hella durable, what Hulk did was nothing special for the amount of hits it took him to do it.

Lol? That first sentence is a mess so I'll leave it alone

So you admit he's nothing much more than the other characters that got oneshotted? Are you even trying to argue for Hercules or against him? It really seems like you never had a leg to stand on, I knew this but all it took was a question thrown your way for you to simply tell the truth. No idea why it took you years to come to your senses. Hercules isn't special and that's what I was saying all along...

Hopefully you don't respond cause there is nothing more for us to talk about. (you will anyway)

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Lol? That first sentence is a mess so I'll leave it alone

So you admit he's nothing much more than the other characters that got oneshotted? Are you even trying to argue for Hercules or against him? It really seems like you never had a leg to stand on, I knew this but all it took was a question thrown your way for you to simply tell the truth. No idea why it took you years to come to your senses. Hercules isn't special and that's what I was saying all along...

Hopefully you don't respond cause there is nothing more for us to talk about. (you will anyway) it's not my fault your carver bias hinders your views.

Hulk didn't one shot Hercules. You've tried to make out Hulk stomping Herc was impressive in the past. Now you're changing your tune to suit your argument eh carver jnr.

"Don't respond" so I can get the last word lol. If you don't like speaking to me then don't quote me at all instead of bitching about it in every post ffs.

Pr, leave Carter alone. You know he's not lying. He's incompetent enough to actually believe everything he lays. vin

As for the Hercules thing, don't see why it's being argued. Not fighting back doesn't make his skin tougher, but Hulk couldn't KO him despite a number of free shots, basically. If Hulk had actually been that dominant against a fighting Hercules it'd be something. If Hulk did damage like that to an Above Top-Tier it'd actually be worth something. But he beat up on an unresisting Hercules and didn't knock him out. If anything it's a feat for Hercules.

Originally posted by Delta1938


He's incompetent enough to actually believe everything he lays.





If the above was deliberate phrasing, and not just a careless typo, I would have to call this quote brilliant, as it probably doesn't describe Carver, but probably DOES describe arguably HALF the men on Earth ...

Two questions for Delta:


1. What exactly do you think got left out of Konvickt's knockout of Superman?



2. Who the **** is this guy in orange knocking Superman and Wonder Woman's heads together? Looks like somebody tried to draw Thing or Clayface and got confused ...


https://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/34561887_image.jpg

What got left out, is Superman's mindset where he's trying to end things as quickly as possible, without engaging in fisticuffs.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider


If the above was deliberate phrasing, and not just a careless typo, I would have to call this quote brilliant, as it probably doesn't describe Carver, but probably DOES describe arguably HALF the men on Earth ...

Half the men on Earth are not as incompetent as Carter. If you were actually aware of him, well I would hope you wouldn't have the same opinion of him as you've consistently shown. I hope it's just because you're ignorant of him.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Two questions for Delta:


1. What exactly do you think got left out of Konvickt's knockout of Superman?



2. Who the **** is this guy in orange knocking Superman and Wonder Woman's heads together? Looks like somebody tried to draw Thing or Clayface and got confused ...


https://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/34561887_image.jpg

Did you actually read that and the following comic? If you did and honestly have to ask, well.....

Titus I think the name was(I definitely remember the storyline, just not positive on the name). He actually appeared in two different forms in different time periods in his like one storyline, the early JLA days and then modern. Carter of course ignores things(like his scan of the earlier Titus, which you wouldn't recognize, ignoring Titus basically cheap shot Superman and that was a weaker Superman, when we both know Carter would cry over people using a weaker era for Hulk). He was wrecking the JLA. Also I've shown you him before, when I was showing how Superman actually did some form of damage hitting him when Wonder Woman didn't do anything, even when Supes and J'onn also blasted him with energy. It was quite consistent how he damaged him but she couldn't, and we know how important consistency in the art is to you.....Until it hurts your stance.

Originally posted by Damborgson
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CNitU1YJgzE/Uooey0i4wHI/AAAAAAAAFFM/rdeLk70UKf8/s1600/Hero-Envy-Hulk-vs-Juggernaut.jpg


Funny how a single hit can look like 4 some days.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Half the men on Earth are not as incompetent as Carter. If you were actually aware of him, well I would hope you wouldn't have the same opinion of him as you've consistently shown. I hope it's just because you're ignorant of him.

mmm

Yeah, not as good at recognizing/using slang as I thought ...


Re-read your misspelled insult attempt to Carver, Delta.

"Men tend to blindly believe the women they are intimate with" is one possible, though extremely off-color, translation of that.