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1 v 1.

Indoor setting. The Winter Soldier factory where IM fought Cap and Bucky.

PIS off, Rhodey should take this IMO. But it also depends on if morals are on or off. Morals on means he won't use his heavier weapons, whereas morals off means he can just unleash with a barrage of minigun fire and missiles.

If they both go for the kill, War Machine will win easily.

If Warmachine is allowed to use his full arsenal on Cap then WM should cleanly win this.

Missles

WM easily.

War Machine wins

Looks like everyone sees this as pretty one sided. I thought there would have been some kind of competition in an indoor environment given their close up tussles in Civil War, and how Tony's AI said he can't beat Cap hand to hand (doubt WM has an AI advanced enough to counter Cap's moves). Though granted WM never fired anything at Cap in Civil War.

Basically, if War Machine uses anything other than Repulsors and non-lethal ordinance, Cap is in trouble. He can only turtle behind the shield, and explosives will deal with that.

Now if he does stick to repulsors and h2h, then Cap breaks him.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Looks like everyone sees this as pretty one sided. I thought there would have been some kind of competition in an indoor environment given their close up tussles in Civil War, and how Tony's AI said he can't beat Cap hand to hand (doubt WM has an AI advanced enough to counter Cap's moves). Though granted WM never fired anything at Cap in Civil War.

Honestly, the AI bit was silly to me. Earlier, when they were going 1-on-1, he got Cap in a full mount and was beating on him, and Bucky had to intervene, and after repulsoring Cap (who had shield in hand no less), he engaged Bucky in H2H and was arguably getting the better of the exchange until he tried to use a repulsor beam (which Bucky somehow managed to force upwards with his human arm, even though the same arm of Tony caught a metal arm punch earlier in the fight). And all without any mentions or indications of AI intervention. I know Cap is a more skilled H2H fighter, but they did a rather shit job of showcasing that, only pulling the AI fight scan thing at the end of the fight, after Tony had already managed to hold his own pretty well against both of them before that.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Honestly, the AI bit was silly to me.
You aren't the only one
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Earlier, when they were going 1-on-1, he got Cap in a full mount and was beating on him, and Bucky had to intervene, and after repulsoring Cap (who had shield in hand no less), he engaged Bucky in H2H and was arguably getting the better of the exchange until he tried to use a repulsor beam.
There was also Tony pulling an effective counter to Bucky's blows and grabbing him by the throat at the beginning of the fight (after showing himself to be faster on the draw by repulsoring away Bucky's gun before he could shoot), and then when Bucky attacks him with a metal pipe Tony disarms and gets Bucky in a sleeperhold in one move. There is also (armourless) Tony taking on Bucky at the CIA compound and holding his own for a time, and then the few moves he pulls out while fighting Cap at the airport. And adding to that are the times he showed skills while fighting in the armor, like against Rhodey in Mk 2, Hammer drones and Vanko at the expo, against Thor, against Killian, against Ultron, against Hulk, and then the times without armor like against Happy in the gym, against Vanko at the Monaco, against Ellen Brandt, against the guards at the Mandarin mansion and against an Ultron drone in AOU.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

And all without any mentions or indications of AI intervention. I know Cap is a more skilled H2H fighter, but they did a rather shit job of showcasing that, only pulling the AI fight scan thing at the end of the fight, after Tony had already managed to hold his own pretty well against both of them before that.
And adding to all that is that MCU Cap lacks the wide martial arts background comic Cap has, which made it necessary for the AI addition in the comics (even though post Extremis Tony has held his own against Cap without the armor) and all that Cap was doing before the combat analysis was throwing left and right hooks, yeah. And all Tony had to do was raise his arms in a boxer guard to block it, and he should have been more than able to do it considering he had no problems blocking the shield after the pattern analysis. If they had shown Cap countering something like that it would have been more beleivable.

Though I am a little miffed that you agree to all this now when last year you were dismissing them when I made pretty much the same points "sniff"

Originally posted by KingD19
Basically, if War Machine uses anything other than Repulsors and non-lethal ordinance, Cap is in trouble. He can only turtle behind the shield, and explosives will deal with that.

There is also the fact that Rhodey's armor looked tougher than Tony's in Civil War. Clint's explosive arrow left a dent in the side of Tony's armor while Rhodey's tanked a goddamn fuel truck crashing and exploding on him.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Though I am a little miffed that you agree to all this now when last year you were dismissing them when I made pretty much the same points "sniff"

It's not so much dismissing them as acknowledging that there were plot elements involved as well. For example, Tony being mentally compromised for the fight (something I did also bring up back then) was confirmed by the Russos during the Director's commentary. They pointed out that Tony fought in blind anger, not tactically, which is why he kept trying to close the distance and physically assault Bucky, instead of just laser his head off from a distance. And that he wasn't so much interested in physically hurting Cap as much as hurting him mentally. As the Russos put it, the betrayal about his parents hit Tony hard, and he felt that it destroyed his and Steve's friendship. So, he wanted to take Bucky away from Steve to hurt him in a similar manner.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's not so much dismissing them as acknowledging that there were plot elements involved as well. For example, Tony being mentally compromised for the fight (something I did also bring up back then) was confirmed by the Russos during the Director's commentary. They pointed out that Tony fought in blind anger, not tactically, which is why he kept trying to close the distance and physically assault Bucky, instead of just laser his head off from a distance. And that he wasn't so much interested in physically hurting Cap as much as hurting him mentally. As the Russos put it, the betrayal about his parents hit Tony hard, and he felt that it destroyed his and Steve's friendship. So, he wanted to take Bucky away from Steve to hurt him in a similar manner.
Hey man, can't you get a jok.... Aah you almost got me there Vault.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Hey man, can't you get a jok.... Aah you almost got me there Vault.

Well, the movie did really seem to push a button.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, the movie did really seem to push a button.
At the time it was released? HELL YEAH! I was going through a pretty difficult time when the movie was released, and I had been riding on the movie's hype train for some time. So I went to watch it hoping to forget my problems for an hour. Then when the movie fell way below my expectations, I exploded! Looking back, I think I directed all the frustations due to my life towards the flaws in the movie. Now I can't help laughing at a blog post I made then. You could almost literally feel the heat coming from it lol.

Even with morals on I'd say WM can win. He doesn't need to kill Cap in order t take him out.

Then again IM was bloodlusted and still couldn't take out 2 super soldiers.

Originally posted by KingD19
Basically, if War Machine uses anything other than Repulsors and non-lethal ordinance, Cap is in trouble. He can only turtle behind the shield, and explosives will deal with that.

Now if he does stick to repulsors and h2h, then Cap breaks him.


Makes sense.

Originally posted by Surtur
Then again IM was bloodlusted and still couldn't take out 2 super soldiers.

Tony never used any kind of heavy weaponry against Cap. He specifically used non-lethal things, like those crappy leg cuffs he shot at him. And, as already mentioned, the Russos pointed out that Tony's bloodlust made him fight more stupidly (choosing to go for H2H despite having a massive ranged advantage), not any more efficiently. And then he still pretty much only lost because of a last ditch effort by Cap, courtesy of a distraction from Bucky. And only because Iron Man paused in his assault to ask Cap to stop fighting. He actually seemed to have calmed down somewhat by the end. After he blew off Bucky's arm, he could have missiles/lasered him etc. but chose to just blast him out of the way with a repulsor. And he actively stopped beating the shit out of Cap to ask him to stand down.

And, as pointed out, Rhodey had a more durable suit. Impacts from things like Redwing and Clint's explosive arrows (which were massively watered down compared to previous films) were damaging the IM suit, whereas getting hit by an exploding gas truck just pissed Rhodey off.

I guess that is a good point. Also Rhodey did survive that long fall in Civil War. It makes you wonder why IM didn't make his own suit more durable.

Originally posted by Surtur
I guess that is a good point. Also Rhodey did survive that long fall in Civil War. It makes you wonder why IM didn't make his own suit more durable.

Because plot demanded that his suit be weak enough so that Bucky and Cap could take it out.

Originally posted by Surtur
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And, as pointed out, Rhodey had a more durable suit. Impacts from things like Redwing and Clint's explosive arrows (which were massively watered down compared to previous films) were damaging the IM suit, whereas getting hit by an exploding gas truck just pissed Rhodey off.
I guess that is a good point. Also Rhodey did survive that long fall in Civil War.
Without power to boot - when he should have been in pieces. For comparison, the cars dropped on IM by SW (and no, she didn't bring them down on him, they clearly lacked the red envelope that the objects she levitates have) crumpled his suit and put his arm in a sling. Had Tony taken that fall, even with power he would have to be poured out imo.

And there is another comparison. Cap spin kicked Rhodey quite some distance away after cutting his club but he wasn't hurt. While Tony started bleeding from his forehead after a shield throw and a couple of metal arm punches.

And nobody mentioned another option WM has. In CW he had sonics. A perfectly non-lethal attack which, if it does not take out Cap, will disorient him enough for Rhodey to take him out. And Cap can't block it with the shield either.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Without power to boot - when he should have been in pieces. For comparison, the cars dropped on IM by SW (and no, she didn't bring them down on him, they clearly lacked the red envelope that the objects she levitates have) crumpled his suit and put his arm in a sling. Had Tony taken that fall, even with power he would have to be poured out imo.

Minor nitpick, but he actually picked up the arm issue before the airport fight, during the unarmoured H2H with Bucky. After an exchange with Ross, he still tells Black Widow, "My left arm is numb. Is that normal?"

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller


And, as pointed out, Rhodey had a more durable suit. Impacts from things like Redwing and Clint's explosive arrows (which were massively watered down compared to previous films) were damaging the IM suit, whereas getting hit by an exploding gas truck just pissed Rhodey off.

Also WM tends to rely more on heavy artillery fire. I actually don't remember him even using repulsors since IM2.

He does though. He used it twice in IM3 once to blast down a set of metal doors and the next to free the President. And he used it on one Ultron drone in the finale

He prefers using his minigun/machine guns and missiles though. As an Ork would say, Rhodey likes the Dakka.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Minor nitpick, but he actually picked up the arm issue before the airport fight, during the unarmoured H2H with Bucky. After an exchange with Ross, he still tells Black Widow, "My left arm is numb. Is that normal?"
Then imo its a low showing for Tony to get his arm dislocated from a punch to the torso. Heck I think it was a stretch for him to get KOd by a torso punch. Had Bucky punched him in the face twice instead of the gut or just threw him with the metal arm I would have been okay, but the one in CW doesn't ring with Tony's previous durability feats.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
He does though. He used it twice in IM3 once to blast down a set of metal doors and the next to free the President. And he used it on one Ultron drone in the finale


Ah okay. I try not to rewatch IM3.