What is the appeal of Vitiate/Valkorion?

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Azronger
Why do people like him and consider him a good character?

S_W_LeGenD
To be honest, Vitiate is a terrible character. Some aspects of his story are really good but his character development was poorly planned and executed.

BioWare ruined Revan as well.

Azronger
Why do you champion him so much then?

Emperordmb
1. Power-trips
2. Sidious wank can sometimes get insufferably obnoxious to the point of almost cultish devotion, so some TOR fans find Valkorion a way to strike back at the Sheev supremacists
3. TBH he has a badass voice and some great lines, as well as a nice character design as Valkorion

Honestly though, Vitiate is basically the same character as Father from Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, but not executed nearly as well.

NewGuy01
His beard, his armor, and his voice.

Emperordmb
Ah yes, always love a good beard.

Geistalt
He resembles the Most Interesting Man in the World, for one.

Azronger
Originally posted by Emperordmb
1. Power-trips
2. Sidious wank can sometimes get insufferably obnoxious to the point of almost cultish devotion, so some TOR fans find Valkorion a way to strike back at the Sheev supremacists
3. TBH he has a badass voice and some great lines, as well as a nice character design as Valkorion

Honestly though, Vitiate is basically the same character as Father from Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, but not executed nearly as well.

1. Understandable

2. So he's like an alternative to Sheev, for non-Sheevites?

3. So do other characters as well.

Father had far more nuance and fit thematically infinitely better to the story. It's no comparison.

Azronger
Originally posted by NewGuy01
His beard, his armor, and his voice.

So just aesthetics?

Geistalt
Basically. He's still the same lil' bastard from Nathema. Exhibited no new depth whatsoever.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
Why do you champion him so much then?
Honestly, Sheevites are responsible for this. Go through your own posts and tell me what you expect in return.

Vitiate is a terrible character but their is substance behind his hype. Critics do their best to shortsell Vitiate's hype and accomplishments but hardly in a rational manner; their arguments tend to be more terrible than Vitiate is as a character.

Even the most logical of Sheevites tend to loose their sanity when discussing Vitiate and they play no role in stopping morons amongst their ranks from going too far.

NewGuy01
Wholehearted agreement.

Beniboybling
Dunno man, but he's a good way of weeding out the morons among us. sad

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Azronger
Father had far more nuance and fit thematically infinitely better to the story. It's no comparison.
Oh yeah I agree with you that Father's a much better character, I'm just saying Vitiate basically has the same character arc but without the same depth and thematic relevance.

MythLord
I think it's the awesome beard, awesome voice and cool lines. I mean, his character sucks, but how can you not love hearing this: https://youtu.be/zoFNJ7UophU?t=412

Beniboybling
This is my favourite line:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xD8qyVJHek&t=3m46s

MythLord
Oh Lord... that duet was awful.

I'd rather read juyomaster's poetry.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by NewGuy01
His beard, his armor, and his voice.

and the dude has some nice one-liners.

Sinious
Godlike oratory and an alternative, ancient approach to Sidious.

Kurk
I barely know shit about him but I like him simply b/c of aesthetics smile

chingchangwalla
His voice

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by MythLord
Oh Lord... that duet was awful.

I'd rather read juyomaster's poetry.
Ironically tha was the closest valk ever got to having a character moment

NTJack0
There is no appeal, he's as awful as Starkiller.

Zentrex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggpVZ4n9A_E

Also, he's really powerful. I like power. And I like how he treats and thinks of power. He's kind of smart as well.

But yeah, he doesn't compare to Sheev and would never have gotten far without the popularity Sheev has.

Freedon Nadd
He is George Lucas.

HitTheAssasin
He's badass, calculating and precisely what I want Sidious to be. Sidious' character is obviously far more developed, but Vitiate's backstory and personality are more fitting for what I'd want from a nigh-immortal, supremely powerful Emperor.

Freedon Nadd
Sidious is a toy figure villain.

Zentrex
Sidious is almost affable in his impish demeanor, though he's complete psychopath, rotten to the core. That's immediately an interesting and unique characterisitic, far from "toy figure" villain levels of shallowness.

Azronger
Agreed. The guy has a good sense of humor, hobbies, favorite color etc. on top of his immortal god-king archetype, which you don't find in characters like Vitiate. That's a toy figure villain right there, but Sheev's a class act.

DarthSkywalker0
Originally posted by Azronger
Agreed. The guy has a good sense of humor, hobbies, favorite color etc. on top of his immortal god-king archetype, which you don't find in characters like Vitiate. That's a toy figure villain right there, but Sheev's a class act.

Vitiate doesn't have a favorite color? Having personal favorites =/= having a deep character. Vitiate is a shit character, but this argument makes no sense.

Azronger
I never said it makes him a deep character. Your argument makes even less sense since it's a strawman.

DarthSkywalker0
Originally posted by Azronger
I never said it makes him a deep character. Your argument makes even less sense since it's a strawman.

You agreed with Zentrex, when he stated that Sidious is more than just a "toy figure" villain. You substantiated the claim by mentioning that he has hobbies and a favorite color. That makes no sense.

slayne
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
You agreed with Zentrex, when he stated that Sidious is more than just a "toy figure" villain. You substantiated the claim by mentioning that he has hobbies and a favorite color. That makes no sense.
He's saying that Sidious having a favourite colour and hobbies on top of being a psychopathic megalomaniac with godlike power is what makes him interesting and differentiates him from your regular, run-of-the-mill villain.

Also, him not being a deep character doesn't automatically categorize him as a "toy figure" villain because he's still interesting nonetheless.

Freedon Nadd
I don't find anything interesting about Palpatine(he just serves as the main bad guy). He is a classic moustached villain, but the Sci-Fi version of it.

Freedon Nadd
Originally posted by Zentrex
Sidious is almost affable in his impish demeanor, though he's complete psychopath, rotten to the core. That's immediately an interesting and unique characterisitic, far from "toy figure" villain levels of shallowness.

He is a more "controlled" version of DC Comics Joker.

DarthSkywalker0
Originally posted by slayne
He's saying that Sidious having a favourite colour and hobbies on top of being a psychopathic megalomaniac with godlike power is what makes him interesting and differentiates him from your regular, run-of-the-mill villain.

Also, him not being a deep character doesn't automatically categorize him as a "toy figure" villain because he's still interesting nonetheless.


None of those traits elevate him above the "toy figure" villain archetype. Every character and their mother likely has a favorite color and hobbies. But, I never denied that he is more than a toy figure villain. I just think az's logic is flawed.

Zentrex
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
I don't find anything interesting about Palpatine(he just serves as the main bad guy). He is a classic moustached villain, but the Sci-Fi version of it.
He just serves as the bad guy? Is that what makes a character unlikeable in your book? Because psychopaths do exist in real life, and make very compelling stories in fiction. If you can't see past the fact that he's pure evil, then that's a shallow thought process.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
He is a more "controlled" version of DC Comics Joker.
Um...no. DC comics Joker is insane and has had many, many motivations througout his history. He's also not pure evil. Palpatine has a very clear motivation and has a very different philosophy from the Joker.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
None of those traits elevate him above the "toy figure" villain archetype. Every character and their mother likely has a favorite color and hobbies. But, I never denied that he is more than a toy figure villain. I just think az's logic is flawed.
Yeah, but we don't know about the hobbies of any old villain, do we? Like Valkorion, for example. Because they don't matter, nor do they interest us. Because Valkorion's fear of losing life and immortality is the be all end all to his character. Palpatine has a personality, and one that many people really like in a villain. That's on top of his role as a villain.

It's like how Darth Vader is great leader in ESB. It's a second thing, on top of being a deep character and having a compelling motivation, that makes us enjoy watching him on screen. That's more than what you can say for any "toy figure" villain.

DarthSkywalker0
Which of Palps hobbies interest you? Joker is one of my favorite villains; yet he has no known hobbies, does that means that none of his hobbies are interesting. This logic is mindbogglingly stupid. Every character, even the most boring, theoretically has a hobby. And don't get me wrong I love Palps, this just makes no sense.

Zentrex
The hobbies and "favorite color" and stuff are just an example. The larger point being that the character has a distinct personality, which can be evidenced by things like hobbies and favorite colors.
The Joker also has a distinct personality as evidenced by his laugh, his actions, his outfit, his fascination with setting up elaborate crimes that make batman question his morality. Now, not having a laugh or clothes that show your personality doesn't mean the character doesn't have a distinct personality, but they can mean that the character does

DarthSkywalker0
Originally posted by Zentrex
The hobbies and "favorite color" and stuff are just an example. The larger point being that the character has a distinct personality, which can be evidenced by things like hobbies and favorite colors.
The Joker also has a distinct personality as evidenced by his laugh, his actions, his outfit, his fascination with setting up elaborate crimes that make batman question his morality. Now, not having a laugh or clothes that show your personality doesn't mean the character doesn't have a distinct personality, but they can mean that the character does

BUT, having hobbies in a favorite color is not a mark of a distinct personality. Because every person alive also has hobbies a favorite color.

Freedon Nadd
In real life, psychopaths have a life, an internal struggle, unique life experiences. I don't know how could you compare a fictional character with a human being.



His motivation is to see the whole world burning, because he believes that people should embrace their destructive side, which is in tune with Palpatine. Only difference is that Palpatine had an education and was able to keep most of his animalic desires in check.

Zentrex
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
In real life, psychopaths have a life, an internal struggle, unique life experiences. I don't know how could you compare a fictional character with a human being.

Well, a fictional character is a mimicry of a human being, so that's how I can compare them. Palpatine also has a life, and a struggle.



That's one Joker. The Original Joker, the 60's joker, the three modern jokers, the Bronze age of comics joker, the jokers from alternate timelines, all have different motivations for different reasons. The one they share is doing something batman doesn't want done.
Palpatine just wants power.

victreebelvictr
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
In real life, psychopaths have a life, an internal struggle, unique life experiences. I don't know how could you compare a fictional character with a human being.



His motivation is to see the whole world burning, because he believes that people should embrace their destructive side, which is in tune with Palpatine. Only difference is that Palpatine had an education and was able to keep most of his animalic desires in check.
no he wouldnt want to rule over a burning world nadd. he wants everything to be in his way as ruler though.

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