Ben Kenobi/Ahsoka Tano (Rebels) vs. DE Luke Skywalker/Starkiller (Sabers only)

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carthage
Who wins

Rockydonovang
De Luke wins it for team 2, but just barely given the presence of a pre prime vader ragdoll fodder on luke's team

UCanShootMyNova
Ur a disgusting waste of human space rocky. smile

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Ur a disgusting waste of human space rocky. smile
Beats being a ragdoll

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Beats being a ragdoll

"Vader prepared for combat again. His power over the apprentice, however, was gone. His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis.The Force wrenched him into the air, as he had once lifted the apprentice's father, and a barrage of missiles struck at him with increasing strength. He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued.

That it does. smile

MythLord
This is sabers only, you cucks.

Anyways, Team 2. Starkiller is comparable/equal to either and Luke is superior to both.

DarthDuelist9
How is Starkiller comparable? He was defeated by a holding back Legends ANH Vader

MythLord
He more-or-less stalemated Vader, and that's of course not accounting for the circumstances that Vader knew how to perfectly counterbalance 'Killer's fighting style and designed it so that it couldn't be used effectively against someone like Vader.

As oppose to getting driven back by Canon Vader, 'Killer seems equally/more impressive than Tano.

Rockydonovang
Ahsoka challenged prime Vader despite being at the disadvantage of Vader knowing her style via training her(the padawan lives). Additionally canon Vader gets direct scaling as a duelist from a superior version of rots kenobi while legends Vader only gets scaling as a duelist from a version of kenobi who is a shadow of his former self.

In addition Ahsoka is a match for a superior version of tcw/sod maul who himself is confirmed as a more skilled/physically superior version of tpm maul. Legends Vader actually lost to Tpm maul(in admittedly unfavorable circumstances)

I'm not seeing how Ahsoka doesn't beat Starkiller on sabers

And even force wise, canon vader's malachor's feat is honestly a better showing than any thing even Rotj Vader has showcased assuming his tanking of palp's Lightning. So even power wise he should be well above legends anh Vader who was still able to ragdoll the crap out of starkiller.

Really not seeing how you can argue for killer here

MythLord
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ahsoka challenged prime Vader despite being at the disadvantage of Vader knowing her style via training her(the padawan lives).

So a quote that applies to TCW Anakin/Ahsoka is going to refer to Rebels Vader/Ahsoka? Ahsoka obviously re-tooled her style, let's also not forget she has a style optimized for fighting larger foes as per Filoni.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Additionally canon Vader gets direct scaling as a duelist from a superior version of rots kenobi while legends Vader only gets scaling as a duelist from a version of kenobi who is a shadow of his former self.

Well, EU Kenobi is >> Canon Kenobi, which is obvious. Also, any direct proof ANH Obi is > RotS Obi in sabers? In the Star Wars comic run, it's noted Obi-Wan is actually out of practice.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
In addition Ahsoka is a match for a superior version of tcw/sod maul who himself is confirmed as a more skilled/physically superior version of tpm maul. Legends Vader actually lost to Tpm maul(in admittedly unfavorable circumstances)

Maul vs Vader is a non-canon fight even in Legends as per Insider and Leland Chee, so this is a worthless comparison from the get-go. And there's nothing to indicate Rebels is Maul's prime; actually, quite the opposite. A fan on a confirmed non-canon blog says Maul's in his prime, but then you have both Witwer and Filoni noting the exact opposite.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I'm not seeing how Ahsoka doesn't beat Starkiller on sabers

By virtue of Starkiller being more powerful, faster, and having a better performance against a better version of Vader?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
And even force wise, canon vader's malachor's feat is honestly a better showing than any thing even Rotj Vader has showcased assuming his tanking of palp's Lightning. So even power wise he should be well above legends anh Vader who was still able to ragdoll the crap out of starkiller.

No, it really isn't, lmao. EU Vader wouldn't even be limping from that explosion, not to mention he's more powerful than beings who can just as easily replicate that showing(such as Joruus C'baoth, or Starkiller).

cs_zoltan
Ben solos.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by MythLord
So a quote that applies to TCW Anakin/Ahsoka is going to refer to Rebels Vader/Ahsoka? Ahsoka obviously re-tooled her style, let's also not forget she has a style optimized for fighting larger foes as per Filoni.



Well, EU Kenobi is >> Canon Kenobi, which is obvious. Also, any direct proof ANH Obi is > RotS Obi in sabers? In the Star Wars comic run, it's noted Obi-Wan is actually out of practice.



Maul vs Vader is a non-canon fight even in Legends as per Insider and Leland Chee, so this is a worthless comparison from the get-go. And there's nothing to indicate Rebels is Maul's prime; actually, quite the opposite. A fan on a confirmed non-canon blog says Maul's in his prime, but then you have both Witwer and Filoni noting the exact opposite.



By virtue of Starkiller being more powerful, faster, and having a better performance against a better version of Vader?



No, it really isn't, lmao. EU Vader wouldn't even be limping from that explosion, not to mention he's more powerful than beings who can just as easily replicate that showing(such as Joruus C'baoth, or Starkiller).
1. Ahsoka obviously retooled her style but vader didn't? There's no reason her style would have gotten drastically seperate aside from just getting better. On the other hand vader got all his limbs off and both readjusted and hybradized his style so if anyone would have a hard time adjusting to a stlye change it would be tano.
I wasn't aware of that quote, link?

2. So that this doens't become an annoying wall of text I;ll just link you and give you the post#
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/rebels-kenobi-and-maul-vs-dooku-and-ventress-1866558/?page=2(near the bottom of post#80).(it also indicates that maul did indeed improve as a duelist)

That comic has Kenobi reflecting he needs to start re practicing with the saber which implies he starting reusing it( a long way off from anh) in addition to strengthening his connetcion

And no, legends kenobi is ot>>>canon kenobi especially not comparing anh kenobi's, onwe of whom grew in power and skill, the other who became a shdow of his former self.

3. I'm not talking about the sw blog and have never made use of that. Filoni stated on offical star wars material that maul had progressed as a swordsman. Neither of the quotes you're referencing were in the context of maul's combative ability in comparison with past versions of himself. The witwer quote wasn't even talking combatively

4. Legends anh vader is not better than canon anh vader.

5. What? When have either shown the ability to tank being in the middle of the type of explosion that can do crap like this?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du5lIOoszOM

Zenwolf
Originally posted by MythLord


Well, EU Kenobi is >> Canon Kenobi, which is obvious. Also, any direct proof ANH Obi is > RotS Obi in sabers? In the Star Wars comic run, it's noted Obi-Wan is actually out of practice.


The comic implies Ben did practice again though even after, during his fight with the Wookiee BH he noted his body isn't what it once was and this is before we see old Ben.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Rockydonovang


That comic has Kenobi reflecting he needs to start re practicing with the saber which implies he starting reusing it( a long way off from anh) in addition to strengthening his connetcion

And no, legends kenobi is ot>>>canon kenobi especially not comparing anh kenobi's, onwe of whom grew in power and skill, the other who became a shdow of his former self.



Legends Ben also grew in power and he still was a formidable duelist soo....plus if we wanna go back, Legends Ben fighting A'sharad Hett is better than Canon Ben fighting Krrsantan.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Legends Ben also grew in power and he still was a formidable duelist soo....plus if we wanna go back, Legends Ben fighting A'sharad Hett is better than Canon Ben fighting Krrsantan.
legend sben grew in power but declined significantly as a duelist
Canon Ben grew both as a force user and as a duelist

Canon ben beat and has two quotes of authority indicating superiority over a factually superior version of a version of maul who himself is factuall superior in "every aspect" to his tpm, one of the msot skilled sith lords in history counterpart.

Said tpm counterpart is a tier above fisto who as a tier 7 thanks to gillard is one of the most skilled force users saber wise in history.

But nah, legends kenobi beat a sharaad hett by virtue of a force attack/saber usage combo after a lengthy engagement, so obviously legends kenobi wins a feat comparison

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
legend sben grew in power but declined significantly as a duelist
Canon Ben grew both as a force user and as a duelist

Canon ben beat and has two quotes of authority indicating superiority over a factually superior version of a version of maul who himself is factuall superior in "every aspect" to his tpm, one of the msot skilled sith lords in history counterpart.

Said tpm counterpart is a tier above fisto who as a tier 7 thanks to gillard is one of the most skilled force users saber wise in history.

But nah, legends kenobi beat a sharaad hett by virtue of a force attack/saber usage combo after a lengthy engagement, so obviously legends kenobi wins a feat comparison

Except we have quotes saying that Ben was still a formidable duelist and that he kept up with his Jedi exercises, that his reflexes never dulled.

Yeah which is better than Canon Ben fighting a Wookiee BH, as he was fighting someone who was more or less on his level. IE: Being Jedi trained, Force Powers, etc the works.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Except we have quotes saying that Ben was still a formidable duelist and that he kept up with his Jedi exercises, that his reflexes never dulled.

Yeah which is better than Canon Ben fighting a Wookiee BH, as he was fighting someone who was more or less on his level. IE: Being Jedi trained, Force Powers, etc the works.

His "reflexes never dulled" does not equal he "never dulled overall as a duelist" which should be clear when fightsaber(is about lightsabers) has him as a "shadow of his former self".

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
His "reflexes never dulled" does not equal he "never dulled overall as a duelist" which should be clear when fightsaber(is about lightsabers) has him as a "shadow of his former self".

Yet he was still a formidable duelist and still had skill in that same Insider source, plus Jedi exercises can encompass other things other than reflex training you know and this was established after Fightsaber in The Life and Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi, which shows since he fights Hett in the novel too.

Plus quite frankly, the whole Shadow of their Former selves thing shouldn't be that big a negative anyway. I mean ok the Fightsaber was released in 2001 right? Ok, but then afterwards we have comics and novels clearly showing that the Shadow of their Former selves thing is complete hooey given what we see both Kenobi and Vader do later, especially Vader.

So were suppose to believe as shadow of their former selves, they were able to still do all of that? And Vader still hadn't reached his prime? That's pretty still dang impressive combat wise. Which makes it all the more impressive that Legends Ben was able to hold out as long as he did. So it shouldn't be such a negative that people like to say it is.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yet he was still a formidable duelist and still had skill in that same Insider source, plus Jedi exercises can encompass other things other than reflex training you know and this was established after Fightsaber in The Life and Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi, which shows since he fights Hett in the novel too.

Plus quite frankly, the whole Shadow of their Former selves thing shouldn't be that big a negative anyway. I mean ok the Fightsaber was released in 2001 right? Ok, but then afterwards we have comics and novels clearly showing that the Shadow of their Former selves thing is complete hooey given what we see both Kenobi and Vader do later, especially Vader.

So were suppose to believe as shadow of their former selves, they were able to still do all of that? And Vader still hadn't reached his prime? That's pretty still dang impressive combat wise. Which makes it all the more impressive that Legends Ben was able to hold out as long as he did. So it shouldn't be such a negative that people like to say it is.
1. Fighting Hett establishes superiority/ parity to rots kenobi as a duelist how? Him being formidable doesn't preclude him being more formidable as of rots. And just because saber training can maintain(it never said his reflexes improved) stuff outside speed doesn't mean it would. Also IIRC, but it's stated in legends that kenobi declined because of the desert heat.

2. Mind specifying what you're referring to)

3. Its all impressive, but it doesn't mean he didn't decline with the saber. In canon, the opposite happened

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Fighting Hett establishes superiority/ parity to rots kenobi as a duelist how? Him being formidable doesn't preclude him being more formidable as of rots. And just because saber training can maintain(it never said his reflexes improved) stuff outside speed doesn't mean it would. Also IIRC, but it's stated in legends that kenobi declined because of the desert heat.

2. Mind specifying what you're referring to)

3. Its all impressive, but it doesn't mean he didn't decline with the saber. In canon, the opposite happened

1. I wasn't saying that, just that it's clear that his saber ability is still something to note as and yeah it's noted his reflexes never improved, but they didn't decline either. But his fight with Hett and especially against Legends Vader, shows his saber ability isn't lacking.

2. The Courscant Nights trilogy, the SW comic purge series where Vader hunts down several Jedi throughout, TFU games, so on. All of these come after that Fightsaber quote and Vader shows some pretty impressive stuff both Force and saber wise.

So you see where I find it hard to believe, that Vader can pull off all this crazy stuff and still have the Shadow of his Former self thing be something of a negative for him and Obi-Wan, if nothing else it's a minimal negative at best and Legends Vader just improves afterwards and grows even stronger.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
How is Starkiller comparable? He was defeated by a holding back Legends ANH Vader

No he wasn't.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by MythLord
He more-or-less stalemated Vader, and that's of course not accounting for the circumstances that Vader knew how to perfectly counterbalance 'Killer's fighting style and designed it so that it couldn't be used effectively against someone like Vader.

As oppose to getting driven back by Canon Vader, 'Killer seems equally/more impressive than Tano.

And that's AFTER he expended massive amounts of energy beforehand.

Beniboybling
Mmm, Ahsoka may solo.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ahsoka challenged prime Vader despite being at the disadvantage of Vader knowing her style via training her(the padawan lives). Additionally canon Vader gets direct scaling as a duelist from a superior version of rots kenobi while legends Vader only gets scaling as a duelist from a version of kenobi who is a shadow of his former self.

In addition Ahsoka is a match for a superior version of tcw/sod maul who himself is confirmed as a more skilled/physically superior version of tpm maul. Legends Vader actually lost to Tpm maul(in admittedly unfavorable circumstances)

I'm not seeing how Ahsoka doesn't beat Starkiller on sabers

And even force wise, canon vader's malachor's feat is honestly a better showing than any thing even Rotj Vader has showcased assuming his tanking of palp's Lightning. So even power wise he should be well above legends anh Vader who was still able to ragdoll the crap out of starkiller.

Really not seeing how you can argue for killer here

The same disadvantage you just listed for Ahsoka applies to Starkiller as well. The difference being Vader was stated to have purposefully designed flaws in Starkiller's training that he could exploit it while he essentially just gave general lightsaber combat training to Ahsoka. This isn't accounting for him having even less knowledge of Ahsoka's fighting style then you're suggesting considering she independently developed her own style based around Jar Kai, something Anakin would not have been able to have as much of a hand in helping her to develop.

Where is Rebels Maul confirmed to be superior to SoD/TCW Maul?

Legends Vader lost to a Maul doppleganger and that comic was made non canon even with Legends continuity.

I'm not seeing how Ahsoka even compares at this point given the disparity between Canon and Legends Vader.

Lmfao. You're kiddin' me? Stopping TIE fighters in mid flight, ragdolling Rahm Kota, being more powerful then mid game Galen Marek are all far above that.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Mmm, Ahsoka may solo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnCdOQsX5kc&t=136s

Beniboybling
Why you scare me like that. sad

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Mmm, Ahsoka may solo.

Don't give Filoni ideas.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Why you scare me like that. sad

I wanted somebody else to feel my horror after watching the IT and DT trailer.

Dispray
Luke and Starkiller

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