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Lucifer Morningstar:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/6/60/Lucifer16.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150316155839

vs.

Pre-SW Living Tribunal:

http://m.imgur.com/riWTQZc?r


Who wins?

LT all day. However.............

Marvel's current crop of abstracts and cosmics (with the exception of Molecule Man) are an absolute joke though. LM would stomp current LT.

Lucifer easily.

Originally posted by zopzop
LT all day. However.............

Marvel's current crop of abstracts and cosmics (with the exception of Molecule Man) are an absolute joke though. LM would stomp current LT.

Why you put PSW Living Tribunal above Lucifer Morningstar? I'd like read your argument.

Originally posted by zopzop
LT all day. However.............

Marvel's current crop of abstracts and cosmics (with the exception of Molecule Man) are an absolute joke though. LM would stomp current LT.


Though the explanation that the currentl omniverse is still new and the cosmology isn't set yet makes up a bit

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lucifer easily.

Originally posted by backup

Why you put PSW Living Tribunal above Lucifer Morningstar?

I'd like read your argument.
Probably cause the real LT (pre-SW) is a beast.

The LT's highest showing is fashioning Marvel and DC in one hand.
In this depiction, the Spectre was portrayed as LT's equal. Spectre's greatest implication likewise.

----------------------------------

btw. Even if aficionados deny this fact,
the LT still fashioned TWO comic book lines in one hand. (even if one feels the other isn't DC)
The feat was referenced in the LT's last bio,
and the feat was elaborated on in Marvunapp personally
by the Head Handbook Writer of ALL official Marvel handbooks since 2004.

... oh, and the Brothers' bio was co-written by 3 of the writers from Marvel vs DC.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Probably cause the real LT (pre-SW) is a beast.

The LT's highest showing is fashioning Marvel and DC in one hand.
In this depiction, the Spectre was portrayed as LT's equal. Spectre's greatest implication likewise.

----------------------------------

btw. Even if aficionados deny this fact,
the LT still fashioned TWO comic book lines in one hand. (even if one feels the other isn't DC)
The feat was referenced in the LT's last bio,
and the feat was elaborated on in Marvunapp personally
by the Head Handbook Writer of ALL official Marvel handbooks since 2004.

... oh, and the Brothers' bio was co-written by 3 of the writers from Marvel vs DC.

facepalm

Trolls gonna troll.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
facepalm

Trolls gonna troll.
How is he trolling? He answered the question backup asked.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
facepalm

Trolls gonna troll. You should actually counter his arguments

Originally posted by zopzop
How is he trolling? He answered the question backup asked.
LT just had two characters in his hands. That doesn't mean he created them or anything.

Also there was a hooded being which doesn't means he was Spectre.

Lastly as per the latest retcon by Jim Starlin, there is a different LT in different universe. Hence it is a non Canon showing as the title was based on X men animated cartoon.

Master is just a troll.

Lucifer murks any incarnation of LT.

That reminds me, is there any feat at all for LT other than implied power?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also there was a hooded being which doesn't means he was Spectre.


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/56904/1230893-the_epectre_and_the_living_tribunal.jpg

Unless I misunderstood what you meant by that not being Spectre? 🤔

Master is talking about this.

https://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/19/00/38/35/14083311.jpg

Somehow DC Comics was created in the pages of marvel comics because we know there are no such things as a pastiche or homage.

He's clearly talking about Spectre, as Spectre was his counterpart in the story involving the brothers.
But this moment doesn't really mean a lot in terms of who might win a conflict.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Master is talking about this.

Which is clearly just a visualization of the brothers, not the actual brothers themselves that he was holding/crushed.

Someone forgot to tell Master.

Oh right, it was informed, he just ignores it.

The scan is meaningless without the handbook to clear up the context of the scan.

The handbook confirmed that what he was holding were the brothers who represented their respective megaverses (each representing the entirety of its 'verse)

Here is LT's OHOTMU bio -- the excerpt pertaining to the Brothers is outlined in red on the first page:

http://i.imgur.com/XuKAuuam.jpg http://i.imgur.com/J509GMqm.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam

You should actually counter his arguments


Here's mine, ... oh, and not just empty gobbledygook like the accusers of "trolling" ...

... with PROOF as always, as Mr phuckin Mr Master does, always has and always will son.

-----------------------------------------

The person who wrote the "Brothers" bio (Jeff Christiansen) with the help of 3 writers from DC vs Marvel:

http://comicbookdb.com/creator.php?ID=4244

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/appmasts.htm (Jeff goes by the nickname "Snood"

Is the same guy who is "Head Handbook Writer" of the handbook where LT's bio is. (and any handbook from 2004 up)

(2006 official handbook of LT's bio)

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/21524614_Jeff.jpg

So, without question, the LT's bio (concerning the Two Megaverses) is referring to Marvel and another Company.

Why?

Because in his view, (Jeff) Marvel and DC and other companies are what? ... Megaverses! stoned

(2004)

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/brothers.htm

"As seen in the DC vs Marvel limited series, the Brothers encompass their entire respective multiverses
(i.e. The Marvel Brother encompasses both the mainstream Marvel universe
and its alternate realities such as Earth-Days of Future past etc.)
It extends beyond just their Multiverses, though,
as realms such as the New Universe, outside of the mainstream Marvel Multiverse, were affected.
However, they do not encompass the entire Omniverse, only DC and Marvel Megaverses.
The Omniverse is the term used to describe all realities and all multiverses,
whereas Megaverse is a term (coined by Snood) which is used to describe all multiverses within one line of comics.
All of it is within the Omniverse, whether or not it is in the comics."

--------------------------------

(2005 Handbook description of a Megaverse) Jeff Christiansen feels the same:

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/21497521_Bio_2005-2.jpg

"We have coined the term Megaverse to include realms associating with a particular line of comics"

--------------------------------

(2006 Handbook description of a Megaverse) Jeff Christiansen feels the same:

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/21497522_Bio_2006.jpg

---------------------------------------------------

So, I'm not going back and forth anymore since this seals the deal.

A serious person, (true debater) not a "troll"
at-least will admit that the LT's bio did not mean two "megaverses" in Marvel,
but instead two separate companies.

Now, anyone wanna say, well that's true I can't argue against that, but that still isn't DC. Fine.

But ya gotta admit, that they aren't two megaverses in Marvel.
It's actually two lines of comics according to the guy who wrote it. (Jeff/Snood)

Coincidentally it just happens to be the Brother from DC vs Marvel
corroborated by the writers of DC vs Marvel lol. But whatever.

Oh the old copy/paste job.

We are so trembling in fear.

**** off troll, this has already been done ad nauseam with you and you always run away.

Masters is owning. My bad, destroying.

LT was killed by those weak Beyonders.

Originally posted by Zack M
LT was killed by those weak Beyonders. Pre-SW Living Tribunal

The version killed by the Beyonders IS 'classic' LT, though.

Originally posted by carver9
Masters is owning. My bad, destroying.


Just like you owned everybody in ownage thread amirite?

Originally posted by Galan007
The version killed by the Beyonders IS 'classic' LT, though. Sorry, but I don't agree.

Originally posted by Galan007
The version killed by the Beyonders IS 'classic' LT, though.

Originally posted by Mindset
Sorry, but I don't agree. Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/JSUdYI0.jpg

My friends, the BeyonderS were always meant to be the most powerful cats ever conceived. (post classic Beyonder)

I have proof this goes back to 90' at-least,
and a hint of this further back in their first true appearance.

This is exactly why the Beyonder was retconned into being a Beyonder from a race of BeyonderS.

-----------------------------------------------------

Hickman's "LT" is almost another character, aside from the name.

Hickman's "LT" is the multiversal embodiment of space-time. huh?
The LT has never been the embodiment of such. ONLY under Hickman.

... and true "classic" LT has been portrayed as a trans-multiversal entity, (all MultiverseS in fact)

and again, "classic" LT also has that monster feat under his belt concerning the TWO comic book lines.
I wouldn't even know how to classify that madness. True Megaversal +? ... wow.

----------------------------------------------------

For the most part, the LT is not meant to dominate stories,
which is why appearances and feats are seldom.
It's a boring character, like most abstracts,
meant for cameos in mostly stories concerning some kind of cosmic concept.

These cats, we have no choice but to judge them mostly on reliable implication and logical deduction,
because writers also have no choice but to shower pis/cis on them in order to conclude plot.

Originally posted by Mr Master
My friends, the BeyonderS were always meant to be the most powerful cats ever conceived. (post classic Beyonder)

I have proof this goes back to 90' at-least,
and a hint of this further back in their first true appearance.

This is exactly why the Beyonder was retconned into being a Beyonder from a race of BeyonderS.

-----------------------------------------------------

Hickman's "LT" is almost another character, aside from the name.

Hickman's "LT" is the multiversal embodiment of space-time. huh?
The LT has never been the embodiment of such. ONLY under Hickman.

... and true "classic" LT has been portrayed as a trans-multiversal entity, (all MultiverseS in fact)

and again, "classic" LT also has that monster feat under his belt concerning the TWO comic book lines.
I wouldn't even know how to classify that madness. True Megaversal +? ... wow.

----------------------------------------------------

For the most part, the LT is not meant to dominate stories,
which is why appearances and feats are seldom.
It's a boring character, like most abstracts,
meant for cameos in mostly stories concerning some kind of cosmic concept.

These cats, we have no choice but to judge them mostly on reliable implication and logical deduction,
because writers also have no choice but to shower pis/cis on them in order to conclude plot.

Also recall how the shaper of worlds explicitly stated that the beyonders are non-chronological beings -- non linear. Something which Hickman not only flat out ignored, but depicted them as being the exact opposite (linear).

Unfortunately, Hickman's depiction/portrayal of the Beyonders is what we have to go by.

Originally posted by operator616
Also recall how the shaper of worlds explicitly stated that the beyonders are non-chronological beings -- non linear. Something which Hickman not only flat out ignored, but depicted them as being the exact opposite (linear).
To those who are curious, you're referring to these scenes:

http://i.imgur.com/5teCPyFm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/paTEU2Qm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/53pkDQjm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/X1KxNMam.jpg

- From Fantastic Four #319 (1988).


http://i.imgur.com/lFP9OFJm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/EuT5C6Am.jpg

- From new Avengers #33 (2015).

^^ Indeed.
Originally posted by operator616

Also recall how the shaper of worlds explicitly stated that the beyonders are non-chronological beings -- non linear. Something which Hickman not only flat out ignored, but depicted them as being the exact opposite (linear).

Originally posted by Galan007

Unfortunately, Hickman's depiction/portrayal of the Beyonders is what we have to go by.
True. But that butt-head left us more confused than anything, which I know you agree with.

We have one Beyonder easily killing Thor and Hyperion, taking it's time, savoring the stomp,
then suddenly, battered Thor and Hyperion can last seconds against 100's. wtf?

One Beyonder, stood there like an idiot just waiting to get warp by Ex-Nihilo.
So that Beyonder never even exercised any power.

The justification on Hickman's part is that the BeynderS need to take on physical shells
in order to manifest within the Multiverse's space-time. These "shells" are not indestructible obviously.

Cool, ok, that explains the Starbrand hilarity and even the idle Beyonder getting warped into a tree.

But that doesn't explain Thor/Hyperion's ridiculous seconds of glory.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, other than that nonsense, Hickman didn't shit on them anymore afterwards.

The race was killed by something connected to their own power, the 100's of 1000's of Owens merged as a bomb.
AND ... the race had to exit the Beyond Realm in order for this cheese move to work,
AGAIN, the vulnerable "shells" they have to take on to visit the Multiverse's space-time.

Hickman's plot was to find a curve that would diminished their physical forms,
because they needed to be defeated so the story can end,

but ... I do not believe Hickman de-powered them.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Why did they kill the Abstracts including Hickman's Multiversal LT?

BeyonderS hit them so hard and fast the Abstracts couldn't react,
at best, one Beyonder had an arm shattered but instantly healed.
They steam rolled over the cosmics.

On the other hand, they held back and procrastinated with the heroes.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I believe that withIN the Beyond Realm,
is where the BeyonderS are (well were) truly what they're meant to be, even in Hickman's portrayal,
this is specifically why they had to "draw them out" in order for the Owen bomb to work.

* Remember old friend, when Kubik and Kosmos visited the Beyond Realm,
even they themselves transcended into mega huge beings
where all of Eternity including the LT "dwindled into insignificance" before them.

So one can only imagine the BeyonderS themselves, if a "minute bit" of their power (Cube being) can reach that status.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
You should actually counter his arguments

Actually I did, multiple times. Hence the trolling.

Those Brothers are not the Brothers from DC vs Marvel but a copy or homage to them, as DC is not officially involved with this story as a company and DC is it's own Omniverse as is Marvel it's own, the reason why Omniversal events don't affect both companies. But el oh el, let him troll.