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Who wins

Using best feats then SG wins.

Originally posted by h1a8
Using best feats then SG wins.

What's SG's best fighting feat? Please link vid.

Originally posted by FrothByte
What's SG's best fighting feat? Please link vid.

Who cares? It's not relevant at all.
Using the "key" feat and the flash race feat, she's strong and fast enough to one shot Zod period.

Originally posted by h1a8
Who cares? It's not relevant at all.
Using the "key" feat and the flash race feat, she's strong and fast enough to one shot Zod period.

What you believe she is theoretically capable of doesn't matter. only feats matter. if you want to claim she'll fight in such a manner. you have to provide feats of her doing so.

Originally posted by h1a8
Who cares? It's not relevant at all.
Using the "key" feat and the flash race feat, she's strong and fast enough to one shot Zod period. Agreed. Supergirl takes this without too much trouble. Faster, stronger, and more durable by a large margin.

Originally posted by h1a8
Who cares? It's not relevant at all.
Using the "key" feat and the flash race feat, she's strong and fast enough to one shot Zod period.

What is the Flash race feat?

People be butthurt i see.. Supergirl loses this as she just as clearly loses against Thor...

Originally posted by NemeBro
What is the Flash race feat?


She chases Flash around at superspeed trying to kill him (she was brainwashed).

A season earlier she had a running race with him and they seemed equally fast.

How fast is Flash in the show?

Fast enough to travel through time.

So 88mph.

Originally posted by NemeBro
How fast is Flash in the show?


His top speed was around Mach 5 when they raced evenly. Think he's around Mach 10 now that she can't catch him. But they've not put figures on it for a while now.

Originally posted by h1a8
Who cares? It's not relevant at all.
Using the "key" feat and the flash race feat, she's strong and fast enough to one shot Zod period.

This is a fight, therefore fighting feats count for much more than any other feats. Please post SG's best fighting feat.

Originally posted by cdtm
Fast enough to travel through time.

This is a very misleading comment. Most people's understand this to mean (based on scientific theories) near light speed or beyond.

Flash was only around Mach 2 when he first time travelled. Obviously the ability to time travel is not based on speed alone.

CW's Flash's stated speeds are not impressive IMO (compared to other notable TV/Movie speedsters). There may be a few calculated feats that are decent, but I treat them as outliers for now.

Originally posted by FrothByte
This is a fight, therefore fighting feats count for much more than any other feats. Please post SG's best fighting feat.

Characters can use their strength, durability, and speed capabilities in a forum fight. This is a fact.


For example
If a character is shown to be faster than sound and is a 100 tonner in strength and durability then we don't need fighting showings to prove that they can beat Cap in a forum fight. They can easily beat Cap with absolutely no fighting showings.

Originally posted by NemeBro
How fast is Flash in the show?

As shitty an answer as this might seem, he's as fast as the show needs him to be, because the numbers they put out for him have no real consistency, and don't really correspond to his higher end feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
Characters can use their strength, durability, and speed capabilities in a forum fight. This is a fact.


For example
If a character is shown to be faster than sound and is a 100 tonner in strength and durability then we don't need fighting showings to prove that they can beat Cap in a forum fight. They can easily beat Cap with absolutely no fighting showings.

Yes tbey can use it in a fight, unless of course all their fights show them not using it to the degree you're implying, then whatever is shown in feats trumps whatever theory you came up with.

Originally posted by h1a8
Characters can use their strength, durability, and speed capabilities in a forum fight. This is a fact.


For example
If a character is shown to be faster than sound and is a 100 tonner in strength and durability then we don't need fighting showings to prove that they can beat Cap in a forum fight. They can easily beat Cap with absolutely no fighting showings.

If 97% of that "100 tonners" fights have him losing to people below Cap level, then Cap would win.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes tbey can use it in a fight, unless of course all their fights show them not using it to the degree you're implying, then whatever is shown in feats trumps whatever theory you came up with.

Whatever feat is best (fighting or non fighting) is the one we go with.
For instance, if a character has the capability of moving and reacting faster than the speed of sound but, due to plot, the writer has them without that ability in fighting scenes then they have the ability in a forum fight since there is no plot to stop them.

SG, and all krpytonians universally (from all media) have class 100 strength and supersonic speed. No feats are needed.

Finally
Characters power levels fluctuate from scene to scene.
Everyone here has used character's non fighting feats (that contradicts their fighting scenes) to support their forum representative (even Thor).
We got Thor surviving Bifrost, helping to destroy the flying landmass, etc.

Originally posted by h1a8
Whatever feat is best (fighting or non fighting) is the one we go with.
For instance, if a character has the capability of moving and reacting faster than the speed of sound but, due to plot, the writer has them without that ability in fighting scenes then they have the ability in a forum fight since there is no plot to stop them.

SG, and all krpytonians universally (from all media) have class 100 strength and supersonic speed. No feats are needed.

Finally
Characters power levels fluctuate from scene to scene.
Everyone here has used character's non fighting feats (that contradicts their fighting scenes) to support their forum representative (even Thor).
We got Thor surviving Bifrost, helping to destroy the flying landmass, etc.

Where in the rules does it say that we ignore all fighting feats in favor of one off high-end feats?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Where in the rules does it say that we ignore all fighting feats in favor of one off high-end feats?

Where does it say that we do not?
Everyone here argues high end one offs, two offs, etc.
Everyone here!

Originally posted by h1a8


For example
If a character is shown to be faster than sound and is a 100 tonner in strength and durability then we don't need fighting showings to prove that they can beat Cap in a forum fight. They can easily beat Cap with absolutely no fighting showings.


If we'd never seen them in a fight then your assumption that he trounced Cap would be a reasonable one. But if when he fights he consistently struggles to beat normal non-powered humans, then clearly Cap would have the superior combat feats which would be relevant to a forum fight.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If we'd never seen them in a fight then your assumption that he trounced Cap would be a reasonable one. But if when he fights he consistently struggles to beat normal non-powered humans, then clearly Cap would have the superior combat feats which would be relevant to a forum fight.
Characters power levels fluctuate. We do not choose low showings in favor of high ones. People would simply lowball the character they don't like. That's why everyone here chooses high end showings.

Many characters have non combat feats that contradict their fighting feats. But everyone here uses them anyway.

If a character can lift a million tons easily in a scene then it is asinine to believe that they won't have that capability in a forum fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
Where does it say that we do not?
Everyone here argues high end one offs, two offs, etc.
Everyone here!

Again, post the rule that says we ignore all fighting feats in favor of one off high-end feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
Where does it say that we do not?
Everyone here argues high end one offs, two offs, etc.
Everyone here!

No, people here include high-end showings, but also factor their other showings into arguments. They don't just take high-end one-offs and completely ignore everything else. The only time people dismiss certain feats (high or low) is when it wildly contradicts other showings. Like the Luke Cage shotgun KO, because it literally makes zero sense in light of all his other durability showings, as well as the actual explanation of his powers. Or the Captain America bulldozer push, which I have mentioned before is extremely suspect, and am highly reluctant to use, because it contradicts multiple movie showings.

Or like I pointed out in another thread. Iron Fist and Daredevil have speed/reaction feats that suggest no-one without some degree of superspeed should be able to tag them. But they have been tagged by regular highly skilled humans during onscreen fights, so we assume that they can be tagged by skilled enough humans in forum fights as well.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No, people here include high-end showings, but also factor their other showings into arguments. They don't just take high-end one-offs and completely ignore everything else. The only time people dismiss certain feats (high or low) is when it wildly contradicts other showings. Like the Luke Cage shotgun KO, because it literally makes zero sense in light of all his other durability showings, as well as the actual explanation of his powers. Or the Captain America bulldozer push, which I have mentioned before is extremely suspect, and am highly reluctant to use, because it contradicts multiple movie showings.

Or like I pointed out in another thread. Iron Fist and Daredevil have speed/reaction feats that suggest no-one without some degree of superspeed should be able to tag them. But they have been tagged by regular highly skilled humans during onscreen fights, so we assume that they can be tagged by skilled enough humans in forum fights as well.

Stop lying. Everyone here only mentions the highest showings for the character they want to win. I never seen a Thor supporter mentioned any low showings. Low showings are mentioned by the opposing side. This is called low balling.

Daredevil has no feats to suggest he can't get hit by a peak human punch or greater. It is harder defending against a 70mph attack from 3ft than a 200 mph attack from 30ft or more.

Originally posted by h1a8
Stop lying. Everyone here only mentions the highest showings for the character they want to win. I never seen a Thor supporter mentioned any low showings. Low showings are mentioned by the opposing side. This is called low balling.

Daredevil has no feats to suggest he can't get hit by a peak human punch or greater. It is harder defending against a 70mph attack from 3ft than a 200 mph attack from 30ft or more.

This is a lie and I can easily post links to me and others mentioning things for Thor, Cap and the Hulk that aren't high end feats.

Originally posted by Silent Master
This is a lie and I can easily post links to me and others mentioning things for Thor, Cap and the Hulk that aren't high end feats. Please do so. Show me in a thread where you wanted Thor to win where you mentioned his low showings to help obtain a basis for his forum level.

Originally posted by h1a8
Please do so. Show me in a thread where you wanted Thor to win where you mentioned his low showings to help obtain a basis for his forum level.

If I do post links where I've mentioned non-high end feats, do you agree to admit that you're a liar? as you posted in several of the threads I'll be linking too.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If I do post links where I've mentioned non-high end feats, do you agree to admit that you're a liar? as you posted in several of the threads I'll be linking too.

I'll admit I'm wrong. Lying requires "on purpose trying to deceive ". This should be good though.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'll admit I'm wrong. Lying requires "on purpose trying to deceive ". This should be good though.

You've been told by multiple people in multiple threads that we don't rely on high-end only and a quick look at other threads would have shown this. yet you choose to call everyone else liars instead of doing 10 seconds of research.

So no, I want you to admit to being the liar you accused us of being.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You've been told by multiple people in multiple threads that we don't rely on high-end only and a quick look at other threads would have shown this. yet you choose to call everyone else liars instead of doing 10 seconds of research.

So no, I want you to admit to being the liar you accused us of being.

I don't see you posting anything where someone mentions a low showing for the character they are debating for.
What happened? And the challenge was for you remember. Show me one of your posts.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't see you posting anything where someone mentions a low showing for the character they are debating for.
What happened?

Your claim was that we use only high-end, therefore I'd only have to show us mentioning average showing in order to prove your claim a lie.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Your claim was that we use only high-end, therefore I'd only have to show us mentioning average showing in order to prove your claim a lie.
Your idea of average could be a high end showing. Don't get me wrong. Multiple feats are mentioned. But only the highest is mentioned for the character who you want to win.

Originally posted by h1a8
Your idea of average could be a high end showing. Don't get me wrong. Multiple feats are mentioned. But only the highest is mentioned for the character who you want to win.

I see, IOW if I post links where non high-end feats are mentioned you're just going to label them as high-end and claim victory.

As an example, all of Cap's feats have been mentioned in debates. From Cap sending people flying to his throwing a motorcycle or stopping a helicopter and you know it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I see, IOW if I post links where non high-end feats are mentioned you're just going to label them as high-end and claim victory.

As an example, all of Cap's feats have been mentioned in debates. From Cap sending people flying to his throwing a motorcycle or stopping a helicopter and you know it. The challenge is on you. You must link where you mentioned these so called non high end feats.

Here is me mentioning Cap sending me flying with hits

Originally posted by Silent Master
Seriously, the only reason normal humans have ever given Cap trouble is because he's trying not to hurt them, I mean he was sending fully armored people flying with hits in his first movie. if he had hit the people in the elevator that hard they would have been sent flying to their death.

Originally posted by h1a8
Stop lying. Everyone here only mentions the highest showings for the character they want to win. I never seen a Thor supporter mentioned any low showings. Low showings are mentioned by the opposing side. This is called low balling.

Daredevil has no feats to suggest he can't get hit by a peak human punch or greater. It is harder defending against a 70mph attack from 3ft than a 200 mph attack from 30ft or more.

Not lying at all. Claiming that everyone just uses one-off non-combat feats, while ignoring multiple combat feats inconsistent with it, is the lie here. There are plenty of examples in threads of people factoring in a combination of multiple fighting and non-fighting feats (not just a few non-combat high-ends) to argue threads. Also, what low showings for Thor are you referring to exactly? In what instances did he notably under-perform compared to his usual levels?

Your statements about arrow distances (because he has defended against multiple at this point) makes me question whether you have watched the show. And where exactly is your 70mph number coming from? The fastest human punch I am aware of is by Keith Liddel, which was registered at 45mph. I also notice how you completely ignore Iron Fist.

Originally posted by Silent Master
As an example, all of Cap's feats have been mentioned in debates. From Cap sending people flying to his throwing a motorcycle or stopping a helicopter and you know it.

Actually, not all of his feats are consistently mentioned. Such as the bulldozer, which hardly ever gets brought up by anyone, and which outstrips any of his other strength feats by quite some margin. And that's likely because the sheer gap between that and his other feats are enough to make a lot of people question it and treat it as an outlier.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Actually, not all of his feats are consistently mentioned. Such as the bulldozer, which hardly ever gets brought up by anyone, and which outstrips any of his other strength feats by quite some margin. And that's likely because the sheer gap between that and his other feats are enough to make a lot of people question it and treat it as an outlier.

Agreed, I don't think I've ever mentioned the bulldozer feat.

BTW, have you noticed that h1 ran away as soon as I posted proof that I've mentioned non high-end feats for Cap?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Agreed, I don't think I've ever mentioned the bulldozer feat.

BTW, have you noticed that h1 ran away as soon as I posted proof that I've mentioned non high-end feats for Cap?

Also, here is an example of me pointing out how strong Luke Cage is compared to the middle-aged Asgardian from AoS (in response to Robtard), without mentioning his highest end strength feat (the SUV stop):

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It was a knife/short sword combo, from about the 0:20 mark.

CHvlxX-58I0

On a random note, that's a pretty sweet sword. The blade can expand from dagger to sword length as needed, as seen at the 0:30-31 mark.

Well, the low-tier Asgardian feats aren't really anything above what Luke can do. Luke smashed his way out of prison, after getting his powers, and was casually crumpling up gun barrels etc. at multiple points in his series, and even started trash compacting a steel dumpster by pushing down on it, when interrogating Turk Barrett to get info. But yeah, the conversation between Loki and Heimdall makes it clear that he is well above a normal Asgardian. Like I said, Loki had been around Asgard for about a 1000 years, so if he asked the Odin fear question, he likely believed there was some grounds for the question to have merit.

Notice how I use a consistent mid-range feat (like the crumpling guns), and I only mentioned one of the instances where he smashed through concrete, even though there are multiple. He has other high end feats that I did not bring up at all.

Thank you, That makes two examples. Even though only one example was needed to prove his claim wrong.

Originally posted by h1a8
Stop lying. Everyone here only mentions the highest showings for the character they want to win.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Thank you, That makes two examples. Even though only one example was needed to prove his claim wrong.

Three actually.

The two quotes plus the fact that the bulldozer feat is almost never brought up for Cap. If people only used the highest end feats, the bulldozer push would be brought up in every Cap thread.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Three actually.

The two quotes plus the fact that the bulldozer feat is almost never brought up for Cap. If people only used the highest end feats, the bulldozer push would be brought up in every Cap thread. I didn't even know what you are talking about until I looked it up. No one knows about feat without watching AOS. So it doesn't count.
And it wasn't a feat shown by Cap. Cap was said to supposedly did it faster. We don't know. Plus the coefficient of static friction could have been anywhere from 0.3 to 0.6. That means the feat is worth 3 to 6 tons.
Finally, I have a problem using AOS feats to support Marvel movie characters.
So it's many reasons people don't bring up that feat. And none of them are because it's a super high end showing.


Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, here is an example of me pointing out how strong Luke Cage is compared to the middle-aged Asgardian from AoS (in response to Robtard), without mentioning his highest end strength feat (the SUV stop):



Notice how I use a consistent mid-range feat (like the crumpling guns), and I only mentioned one of the instances where he smashed through concrete, even though there are multiple. He has other high end feats that I did not bring up at all. Crumbling guns one of the highest showing. You know how much force that takes? Certainly far more than most (if not all) Luke has done.
You were arguing for Luke yet used his highest feats ever. You proved my point.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Not lying at all. Claiming that everyone just uses one-off non-combat feats, while ignoring multiple combat feats inconsistent with it, is the lie here. There are plenty of examples in threads of people factoring in a combination of multiple fighting and non-fighting feats (not just a few non-combat high-ends) to argue threads. Also, what low showings for Thor are you referring to exactly? In what instances did he notably under-perform compared to his usual levels?

Your statements about arrow distances (because he has defended against multiple at this point) makes me question whether you have watched the show. And where exactly is your 70mph number coming from? The fastest human punch I am aware of is by Keith Liddel, which was registered at 45mph. I also notice how you completely ignore Iron Fist.

Dude. No one does what you are saying. People automatically mention bifrost explosions (without stating his low showings), flying landmass feat, and other one off feats, etc.

There is no combat feat consistent with several of Thor high end combat feats.

Fighting with Loki, IM, Hulk, etc. are inconsistent with his high end portrayels. Even Thor's lightning is inconsistent.

Peak humans in MC can strike with speeds 70mph or faster. Characters in MC>>>> real life humans. They send people flying through the air with their attacks.

I ignored IF because I haven't seen the scene. And if he did catch a bullet under normal circumstances then he will operate at around that level in a forum fight.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Here is me mentioning Cap sending me flying with hits Lol. You claimed that Cap was holding back. That's not mentioning a low showing. Someone else (who was arguing against Cap) mentioned the elevator scene. You were just trying to explained what really happened in order to support his high end stuff.

Your claim was that "everyone always uses high-end only" you have now been provided with 3 examples of people mentioning non-high end feats. thus your claim was wrong. If even after you have been provided proof, you refuse to admit that you were wrong, that means you are now purposely trying to deceive people and by your own definition would be considered a liar.

So, which is it.
1) Were you wrong
2) You're currently a liar.

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't even know what you are talking about until I looked it up. No one knows about feat without watching AOS. So it doesn't count.
And it wasn't a feat shown by Cap. Cap was said to supposedly did it faster. We don't know. Plus the coefficient of static friction could have been anywhere from 0.3 to 0.6. That means the feat is worth 3 to 6 tons.
Finally, I have a problem using AOS feats to support Marvel movie characters.
So it's many reasons people don't bring up that feat. And none of them are because it's a super high end showing.




AOS is part of the Marvel canon, so that alone shouldn't be the issue with using the feat. The issue was that it's heresay and inconsistent with his other feats.

But if you think it could be as low as the 3 to 6 ton range, then it wouldn't really be all that inconsistent.

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't even know what you are talking about until I looked it up. No one knows about feat without watching AOS. So it doesn't count.
And it wasn't a feat shown by Cap. Cap was said to supposedly did it faster. We don't know. Plus the coefficient of static friction could have been anywhere from 0.3 to 0.6. That means the feat is worth 3 to 6 tons.
Finally, I have a problem using AOS feats to support Marvel movie characters.
So it's many reasons people don't bring up that feat. And none of them are because it's a super high end showing.

What kind of nonsense is that? So, you're arguing that if you are ignorant of a feat it's not usable? What a joke. You also claimed there were no canonical comics to the MCU until I literally linked you a page showing them in another thread, so you just seem generally ignorant in that regard. Plenty of people who don't watch AoS know about it. I only started watching that show long after I knew about the feat. Hell, I still haven't watched the episode where it actually happens. And I see you pulling more numbers out of your ass with no sources. Also, what you personally have a problem with is completely irrelevant. AoS is canon to the MCU. That >>> your feelings.

Originally posted by h1a8

Crumbling guns one of the highest showing. You know how much force that takes? Certainly far more than most (if not all) Luke has done.
You were arguing for Luke yet used his highest feats ever. You proved my point.

He's stopped a speeding, multi-ton vehicle dead in its tracks (and wasn't even breathing hard afterwards), casually pulled the door off a small safe (with one hand), overpowered both Jessica Jones' arms with one of his own (during an actual fight), knocked over a load-bearing support pillar while injured, and punched his way out of multiple tons of rubble (after the rocket launcher + building collapsing on him), just to name some other feats. What's more, when he does it consistently throughout the show (like he does with guns), it not a high-end one-off (unlike the key). It becomes a consistently portrayed level of strength. So, no, I did not prove your point at all.

Originally posted by h1a8

Dude. No one does what you are saying. People automatically mention bifrost explosions (without stating his low showings), flying landmass feat, and other one off feats, etc.

There is no combat feat consistent with several of Thor high end combat feats.

Fighting with Loki, IM, Hulk, etc. are inconsistent with his high end portrayels. Even Thor's lightning is inconsistent.

No, no one else does what you are doing (focusing on a select few non-combat high-ends while writing everything else that contradicts it off as PIS/plot writing). Plenty of people reference his fights with those characters, including those who argue for him. And we are not just talking about Thor. You claimed people only do that for all the characters (plural) they want to win. Which is not true. At best, some people do that, but hardly "everyone".

Again, what are these low showings? He has shown that he can take Loki out pretty easily if he gets serious, he was slowly wearing down Tony's armour while not taking any damage in return, and he was doing decently against the Hulk despite not using anywhere near his full arsenal of powers.

Originally posted by h1a8

Peak humans in MC can strike with speeds 70mph or faster. Characters in MC>>>> real life humans. They send people flying through the air with their attacks.

I ignored IF because I haven't seen the scene. And if he did catch a bullet under normal circumstances then he will operate at around that level in a forum fight.


By all means, prove that un-enhanced humans in the MCU throw punches at 70mph or more. And once you do that, prove that that's the standard that should be applied to any high-end un-enhanced humans in forum fights, which is what the discussion is about.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
AOS is part of the Marvel canon, so that alone shouldn't be the issue with using the feat. The issue was that it's heresay and inconsistent with his other feats.

But if you think it could be as low as the 3 to 6 ton range, then it wouldn't really be all that inconsistent.

What's funny is how he is claiming that people just focus on things like the BiFrost and such, while ignoring Thor's combat showings, when I can recall multiple instances where you, and other posters, have made references to those fights while arguing in favour of Thor in threads.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
What's funny is how he is claiming that people just focus on things like the BiFrost and such, while ignoring Thor's combat showings, when I can recall multiple instances where you, and other posters, have made references to those fights while arguing in favour of Thor in threads.

I know that I've mentioned the Thor vs Hulk fight before, I even gave a blow by blow description of it once because IIRC carver was questioning how many times Thor dodged the Hulk's attacks.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I know that I've mentioned the Thor vs Hulk fight before, I even gave a blow by blow description of it once because IIRC carver was questioning how many times Thor dodged the Hulk's attacks.

I'm still waiting to find out what these "low" showings are as well.

Originally posted by Placidity
This is a very misleading comment. Most people's understand this to mean (based on scientific theories) near light speed or beyond.

Flash was only around Mach 2 when he first time travelled. Obviously the ability to time travel is not based on speed alone.

CW's Flash's stated speeds are not impressive IMO (compared to other notable TV/Movie speedsters). There may be a few calculated feats that are decent, but I treat them as outliers for now.

Yeah, the time travel stuff is wonky, though this feat by Barry where he creates a bunch of after images in impressive IMO:

rvz2t7-mLXY

Originally posted by h1a8
Whatever feat is best (fighting or non fighting) is the one we go with.
For instance, if a character has the capability of moving and reacting faster than the speed of sound but, due to plot, the writer has them without that ability in fighting scenes then they have the ability in a forum fight since there is no plot to stop them.

SG, and all krpytonians universally (from all media) have class 100 strength and supersonic speed. No feats are needed.

Finally
Characters power levels fluctuate from scene to scene.
Everyone here has used character's non fighting feats (that contradicts their fighting scenes) to support their forum representative (even Thor).
We got Thor surviving Bifrost, helping to destroy the flying landmass, etc.

You obviously have never been in a fight. Martial artists who can break concrete blocks with their hands during demonstrations seldom are able to apply that same sort of power in a fight.

Martial Artists who are capable of doing extremely precise spinning kicks in demonstrations have trouble using it in real fights.

Everyone here has used non-fighting feats, that is true, but it was supported by fighting feats as well. You, on the other hand, are relying purely on non-fighting feats and haven't even provided single fighting feat to support your argument.

Seeing as this is an actual fight, please provide the best fighting feat of SG.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I know that I've mentioned the Thor vs Hulk fight before, I even gave a blow by blow description of it once because IIRC carver was questioning how many times Thor dodged the Hulk's attacks.



Yeah I've done the blow by blow account of that fight as well. But Hulk fans like just skipping to the last bit.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah I've done the blow by blow account of that fight as well. But Hulk fans like just skipping to the last bit.

I did a blow by blow, including the number of times Thor dodged from a hit and the number of clean hits Hulk landed. Hulk fans love to ignore it.

Anyway, I remember season 1 SG having something like 2-3 training sessions with her sister. She even admitted that she was a crappy fighter and had to learn to fight. Unless S2 had given SG a boost in skill then she's really got nothing on Thor. Despite the non-flashy moves that Thor does you'd be surprised at how easily he evades and blocks attacks.

But come Ragnarok, I bet we'll get an even better understanding of his skill. I can already see a number of Wonder Woman vs. Thor threads coming out.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So 88mph.

Well played.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
What kind of nonsense is that? So, you're arguing that if you are ignorant of a feat it's not usable? What a joke. You also claimed there were no canonical comics to the MCU until I literally linked you a page showing them in another thread, so you just seem generally ignorant in that regard. Plenty of people who don't watch AoS know about it. I only started watching that show long after I knew about the feat. Hell, I still haven't watched the episode where it actually happens. And I see you pulling more numbers out of your ass with no sources. Also, what you personally have a problem with is completely irrelevant. AoS is canon to the MCU. That >>> your feelings.

You misunderstood. It doesn't count toward proving that people don't just use high end feats to argue their character.


The gun feat is still tops or close to tops. Like I said, you have no clue to how much force it took. Luke did it fairly casually too.


Again, non of those fights are anywhere close to Bifrost and other feat. He struggled in those fights.


If a human can send another human flying through the air with mere punches then they are punching within superhuman speed.

Your claim was that we only use high end feats.we have provided three examples that prove your claim incorrect. At this point you only have two options 1. Retract your claim or 2. You're a liar.

Pick one

Originally posted by Silent Master
Your claim was that we only use high end feats.we have provided three examples that prove your claim incorrect. At this point you only have two options 1. Retract your claim or 2. You're a liar.

Pick one You nor anyone hasn't provided any valid examples. I refuted all of the ones you gave.

Originally posted by h1a8
You nor anyone hasn't provided any valid examples. I refuted all of the ones you gave.

I challenge you to a mod ruling, loser gets banned. You up for it?

Originally posted by h1a8
You misunderstood. It doesn't count toward proving that people don't just use high end feats to argue their character.

I understood. You literally tried to dismiss a feat because you don't like it, and then pulled up more numbers without sources to try and sound clever. Hell, even if we use your lowballing numbers, it's still better than the majority of his other feats, which would make it a high-end. And, again, AoS is canon to the MCU. Same universe. So, what happens there counts.

Originally posted by h1a8

The gun feat is still tops or close to tops. Like I said, you have no clue to how much force it took. Luke did it fairly casually too.

I do. But hey, by all means, prove that it was tops, and provide credible 3rd party sources for your numbers, because I don't trust anything you throw out.

Originally posted by h1a8

Again, non of those fights are anywhere close to Bifrost and other feat. He struggled in those fights.

A lot of people would disagree there. And the point is people have used them, which proves you wrong.

Originally posted by h1a8
If a human can send another human flying through the air with mere punches then they are punching within superhuman speed.

Prove MCU Punisher, Nobu and Kingpin hit at 70mph or more, seeing as they have been able to repeatedly tag Daredevil.

And even if you can manage that (which you can't), you are claiming they punch with superhuman speed now? Well then, concession accepted, seeing as:

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Or like I pointed out in another thread. Iron Fist and Daredevil have speed/reaction feats that suggest no-one without some degree of superspeed should be able to tag them.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I challenge you to a mod ruling, loser gets banned. You up for it?

Watch how he claims he won't put something up to the challenge that he already "refuted" (i.e. stuck his fingers in his ears and went "Nu uh!", and then try and relaunch his conspiracy that everyone on KMC is against him and trying to set him up.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I understood. You literally tried to dismiss a feat because you don't like it, and then pulled up more numbers without sources to try and sound clever. Hell, even if we use your lowballing numbers, it's still better than the majority of his other feats, which would make it a high-end. And, again, AoS is canon to the MCU. Same universe. So, what happens there counts.



You didn't understand at all. This has nothing to do with what I said.
My comment is concerning whether people use only high end feats to support their character. Please reread the exchange. You are totally off the mark. The yield strength of the pistol is at least 40,000psi. Luke did it fairly casually.

This is a straw man. My claim is that sending someone flying through the air with a punch requires more than 70mph of hand speed.

Do you accept my challenge?

Originally posted by Silent Master
I challenge you to a mod ruling, loser gets banned. You up for it? You haven't shown anywhere a poster not using only high end feats to support their character.

Originally posted by h1a8
You haven't shown anywhere a poster not using only high end feats to support their character.

Then you should have no problem accepting my challenge.

So, do you accept?

Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't understand at all. This has nothing to do with what I said.
My comment is concerning whether people use only high end feats to support their character. Please reread the exchange. You are totally off the mark.

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't even know what you are talking about until I looked it up. No one knows about feat without watching AOS. So it doesn't count.
And it wasn't a feat shown by Cap. Cap was said to supposedly did it faster. We don't know. Plus the coefficient of static friction could have been anywhere from 0.3 to 0.6. That means the feat is worth 3 to 6 tons.
Finally, I have a problem using AOS feats to support Marvel movie characters.
So it's many reasons people don't bring up that feat. And none of them are because it's a super high end showing.

I understood you perfectly. You are now just backtracking. You tried to use reasoning that a feat isn't valid if not everyone has seen it, and listed your personal issue with using feats from the show for the movie characters, as part of your reasoning for dismissing it. Just like I said.

Originally posted by h1a8

The yield strength of the pistol is at least 40,000psi. Luke did it fairly casually.

I said I wanted credible 3rd party sources that prove that it was greater than the other feats mentioned. I don't trust numbers you just throw out, and with good reason.

Originally posted by h1a8

This is a straw man. My claim is that sending someone flying through the air with a punch requires more than 70mph of hand speed.

You need learn what a strawman is. Also, I was addressing MCU characters that have specifically tagged Daredevil repeatedly, despite his other reaction feats. Therefore, those are the relevant characters to the discussion. And no, that is not all you said. Your first post said he had no feats to suggest he could not get hit by a peak human or greater. You then said MC humans hit at 70mph or greater. I then asked you to prove the ones actually relevant to the discussion have done so, seeing as they have tagged DD, because you claimed defending from a 200mph object from 30 feet or more takes less effort than defending from a 70mph punch from 3 feet away, as an argument for him not having the feats to dodge those blows.

@H1 I bring the Daredevil thing up for a reason. According to your numbers, someone would need to be punching at beyond normal human speed to tag him, based on his high end reaction feats. Based on the standard you are using for Supergirl, the same assumption should be made for him in forum fights. Yet that does not happen. Anyone on here who really knows me knows I am a big Daredevil fan, yet I have never once claimed that it would take beyond human punching speed to tag him in a forum fight. Even when I argue for him, I concede that a highly skilled enough human fighter could manage it (like Nobu or Punisher), or a big enough brute that could muscle through his defense (Fisk). And I have never seen anyone else claim enhanced speed is needed to tag him either. Which, again, disproves your argument that everyone only use high-ends while ignoring lower combat showings.

And your statement earlier that "none" of the reasons people don't use the bulldozer feat is because it is a super high-end is blatantly false too, seeing as I cited exactly that reason for not using it in the X-24 vs Cap thread, before this discussion even took place.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller


I said I wanted credible 3rd party sources that prove that it was greater than the other feats mentioned. I don't trust numbers you just throw out, and with good reason.



This.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
This.

And what's more, this argument got spurred by Silent mentioning we don't completely dismiss other feats in favour of high-end one-offs. Beyond everything else, him bending guns is also not a one-off, and it is by no means the only feats used for him in threads. Myself and others have also mentioned more mundane feats, such as the couch throw etc. as well as his fights with Jessica Jones, Diamondback, various groups of fodder, and his prison fights in Seagate. Which, along with people not using the bulldozer, multiple people actually mentioning Thor's fights in various threads, and people not claiming it requires beyond human speed to tag DD in forum fights, further disproves his high-ends only claim.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I understood you perfectly. You are now just backtracking. You tried to use reasoning that a feat isn't valid if not everyone has seen it, and listed your personal issue with using feats from the show for the movie characters, as part of your reasoning for dismissing it. Just like I said.



I said I wanted credible 3rd party sources that prove that it was greater than the other feats mentioned. I don't trust numbers you just throw out, and with good reason.



You need learn what a strawman is. Also, I was addressing MCU characters that have specifically tagged Daredevil repeatedly, despite his other reaction feats. Therefore, those are the relevant characters to the discussion. And no, that is not all you said. Your first post said he had no feats to suggest he could not get hit by a peak human or greater. You then said MC humans hit at 70mph or greater. I then asked you to prove the ones actually relevant to the discussion have done so, seeing as they have tagged DD, because you claimed defending from a 200mph object from 30 feet or more takes less effort than defending from a 70mph punch from 3 feet away, as an argument for him not having the feats to dodge those blows.

People don't use the bulldozer feat for Cap for several reasons.
1. They don't know about it.
2. It's hear say from another character (Cap wasn't shown performing it).
3. Some people disagree with using AOS in these threads.

They don't choose to use it because it's way too high end.
So when I said "it" doesn't count, I wasn't referring to the feat. I was referring to the example you were using to prove people don't always use high end feats to support their character.

I'm basically saying that catching arrows don't contradict getting hit by superhuman level punches.

But, Anyone who hit DD straight up (no plot behind it) with absolutely no superhuman level speed is contradicted by DD catching arrows. This means, in a forum, he will operate at the arrow catching ability.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
@H1 I bring the Daredevil thing up for a reason. According to your numbers, someone would need to be punching at beyond normal human speed to tag him, based on his high end reaction feats. Based on the standard you are using for Supergirl, the same assumption should be made for him in forum fights. Yet that does not happen. Anyone on here who really knows me knows I am a big Daredevil fan, yet I have never once claimed that it would take beyond human punching speed to tag him in a forum fight. Even when I argue for him, I concede that a highly skilled enough human fighter could manage it (like Nobu or Punisher), or a big enough brute that could muscle through his defense (Fisk). And I have never seen anyone else claim enhanced speed is needed to tag him either. Which, again, disproves your argument that everyone only use high-ends while ignoring lower combat showings.

And your statement earlier that "none" of the reasons people don't use the bulldozer feat is because it is a super high-end is blatantly false too, seeing as I cited exactly that reason for not using it in the X-24 vs Cap thread, before this discussion even took place. There are plenty of ways to tag DD without being superhumanly fast. But these are plot devices. Taking a hit to hit DD, DD being occupied by multiple attackers, etc. Now if a human level attacker threw a single punch then DD would block or dodge it every time.

Originally posted by h1a8
People don't use the bulldozer feat for Cap for several reasons.
1. They don't know about it.
2. It's hear say from another character (Cap wasn't shown performing it).
3. Some people disagree with using AOS in these threads.

So you're claiming to be a mind reader now?

Originally posted by h1a8
People don't use the bulldozer feat for Cap for several reasons.
1. They don't know about it.
2. It's hear say from another character (Cap wasn't shown performing it).
3. Some people disagree with using AOS in these threads.

They don't choose to use it because it's way too high end.
So when I said "it" doesn't count, I wasn't referring to the feat. I was referring to the example you were using to prove people don't always use high end feats to support their character.

Ignorance of a feat does not invalidate it. Using that logic, anyone who hasn't seen a specific film or TV show can pull the same card if they want to dismiss a feat. It's the responsibility of the poster entering the discussion to make themselves aware of any relevant material. Especially when 99% of clips end up on Youtube nowadays.

Also, people can disagree all they want. If it is part of the same canonical universe, then it is usable, unless the OP specifically states otherwise. This also applies, for example, to using Clone Wars or Rebels feats for Star Wars threads.

The closest to reasonable argument is the hearsay one. But for the people who have actually watched AoS, and know how they operate on the show and how SHIELD works, the notion that an instructor would simply make something like that up is highly questionable.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm basically saying that catching arrows don't contradict getting hit by superhuman level punches.

But, Anyone who hit DD straight up (no plot behind it) with absolutely no superhuman level speed is contradicted by DD catching arrows. This means, in a forum, he will operate at the arrow catching ability.

And I agree that, by high end feats, it would take superspeed punches to hit DD.

But, and this is the big point, that is not how people debate the character in question on these forums. I have seen people use the arrow catches and dodges to argue that he is faster than other characters who don't have similar feats, but never to suggest it would take superspeed to hit him. Even when arguing for him. I know for a fact that I haven't, even though Netflix DD is probably my favourite MCU character. Which, like I said, is proof that people don't always necessarily just use high ends. Combat showings do get factored in, even if they don't necessarily line up with high ends. Now, granted, some people do just stick to high-ends for their character while throwing low-ends at their opponent, but it is hardly everyone.

More importantly, h1 didn't ask anyone why they don't use the feat. So his list of 'reasons' is really just a list of uninformed guesses.

Originally posted by Silent Master
More importantly, h1 didn't ask anyone why they don't use the feat. So his list of 'reasons' is really just a list of uninformed guesses.

Well, I already pointed out why I don't use it. Even if you lowball the feat, it is still highly inconsistent with his other strength showings. And it creates a domino effect, considering it influences how we judge more than just Cap, such as the strength of Bucky's metal arm, for example.

Just watched a recent episode of Supergirl, she was almost killed by a swarm of nano bots. Someone deactivated their programming using a simple computer, or they would have swarmed over her whole body and face and killed her. This is way too typical of her. Can you imagine anything like this happening to Thor or General Zod?

^ But she lifted a Billion Trillion Tons!

The argument should be whether SG has millions of tons strength and durability in a forum? If she doesn't then how do we decide what strength level should she be at?

Originally posted by h1a8
The argument should be whether SG has millions of tons strength and durability in a forum? If she doesn't then how do we decide what strength level should she be at?

Are you ever going to provide a clip of SG hitting with millions of tons of force?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Are you ever going to provide a clip of SG hitting with millions of tons of force?

My claim is that if SG will operate with millions of tons of strength in a forum then she will be capable of hitting with millions of tons of force. I'm not claiming that she will be operating at that level of strength in a forum.

So if you disagree that she will have the capacity then you must also disagree that she will have the capacity to lift millions of tons in a forum fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
My claim is that if SG will operate with millions of tons of strength in a forum then she will be capable of hitting with millions of tons of force. I'm not claiming that she will be operating at that level of strength in a forum.

So if you disagree that she will have the capacity then you must also disagree that she will have the capacity to lift millions of tons in a forum fight.

This is fight thread, so you are either arguing that SG will hit with millions of tons of force during the fight or you're trolling.

Which is it?

Originally posted by Silent Master
This is fight thread, so you are either arguing that SG will hit with millions of tons of force during the fight or you're trolling.

Which is it?

Terrible logic. If someone can hit with millions of tons but chooses to hit with a million tons then what's the problem?

Her strength gives her plenty of room to hit him at many different levels that can one shot him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Terrible logic. If someone can hit with millions of tons but chooses to hit with a million tons then what's the problem?

Her strength gives her plenty of room to hit him at many different levels that can one shot him.

Are you claiming that SG will hit that hard during the fight?

Zod wins.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
His top speed was around Mach 5 when they raced evenly. Think he's around Mach 10 now that she can't catch him. But they've not put figures on it for a while now. Lol, that's it?

Zod was breaking like mach 10,000 while fighting Superman when they brought the fight into and out of space. Mach 10? Lul.

The CW writers can't do science for shit though. Barry was dodging lightning bolts before he supposedly even went Mach 2. On another occasion, fake Jay Garrick (Hunter Zolomon) claimed to be near light speed, when that was not the case either. The numbers they throw out on that show are meaningless.

^ Remember when Barry says "Mach 50 isn't a real thing"

Yeah, I enjoy watching the Flash, but their science/physics talk is cringe-y as f*** most of the time.

It's best to just go by feats instead. And current Barry is supposedly faster than Zoom was when the latter did this. Snapped all their necks and got back to his starting position before the first body could even start dropping:

VyXrFzn6Jg0

But that's talking Flash/Zoom. Not SG.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Remember when Barry says "Mach 50 isn't a real thing"

The latest cringe-y example is with the whole saving Iris thing. He has to cover what looked like maybe a 100 feet in 0.21s. And they make it sound like it is way beyond his ability. Yet the numbers they provide at other times (as well as scores of other actual feats) suggest he should be able to do so, and pretty easily at that.

Or how about Wally supposedly surpassing him weeks ago already, yet Barry was keeping up with a Wally "running at his fastest" without any apparent issue, when he traveled to the future.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Are you claiming that SG will hit that hard during the fight?

Yes she will hit hard enough to one shot Thor somewhere during the fight. If not in the beginning then later on.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes she will hit hard enough to one shot Thor somewhere during the fight. If not in the beginning then later on.

Post a clip of her hitting with enough power to one shot Thor.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Post a clip of her hitting with enough power to one shot Thor.

Troll post.
She is capable and will use that capability if necessary. That's all that matters.

Originally posted by h1a8
Troll post.
She is capable and will use that capability if necessary. That's all that matters.

Why won't you post a clip of her hitting with millions of tons of force?

Originally posted by h1a8

She is capable and will use that capability if necessary. That's all that matters.


Yeah except if she's never done it then you have no proof that she would do it "if necessary".

If you don't mind some advice, I think Your case for Supergirl would better off concentrating on her Heat Vision. Given she's used that to great effect in actual combat.

Originally posted by h1a8
Troll post.
She is capable and will use that capability if necessary. That's all that matters.

Incorrect. There has been no proof given that she hits anywhere with that kind of force. Ever.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Incorrect. There has been no proof given that she hits anywhere with that kind of force. Ever.

She has the capability of hitting with that type of force because of the key feat.
Now you can argue that the key feat doesn't define her forum strength. But that's a different argument.
If you accept that the key feat defines her forum strength then you must accept that she has the capability to hit with that type of force.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah except if she's never done it then you have no proof that she would do it "if necessary".

If you don't mind some advice, I think Your case for Supergirl would better off concentrating on her Heat Vision. Given she's used that to great effect in actual combat. She has no logical reason why she wouldn't eventually use sufficient enough force to ok someone.

Still waiting for you to post that clip of Supergirl hitting with millions of tons of force.

Originally posted by h1a8
She has no logical reason why she wouldn't eventually use sufficient enough force to ok someone.



Except that she never has.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, I enjoy watching the Flash, but their science/physics talk is cringe-y as f*** most of the time.

It's best to just go by feats instead. And current Barry is supposedly faster than Zoom was when the latter did this. Snapped all their necks and got back to his starting position before the first body could even start dropping:

VyXrFzn6Jg0

But that's talking Flash/Zoom. Not SG.

Yep, and yet at other times Jay/Zoom says he could run at "nearly the speed of light" and nobody bats an eye.

Why do you guys still argue with h1 for pages? He never produces any of the feats that he claims in any of the threads he's in. He always argues the losing side on top of that. I don't get why you put in the energy.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Why do you guys still argue with h1 for pages? He never produces any of the feats that he claims in any of the threads he's in. He always argues the losing side on top of that. I don't get why you put in the energy.

The key feat. The flash feats. They are the basis of my very argument.
She casually lifted a million tons. She can easily ko Zod in one shot if she wanted to.
She was fast enough to reach higher than the speed of sound instantly.

Show a clip of her fighting faster than Zod can react while simultaneously hitting with millions of tons of force.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Show a clip of her fighting faster than Zod can react while simultaneously hitting with millions of tons of force.

I don't need to.
She lifted a million ton key casually. Thus she has the capability of one shotting Zod.
She also instantly reaching faster than sound speeds. She is plenty capable of hitting Zod.

Most importantly, a million tons was exerted on her skin in the size of a key. This means that she can resist pressure above a million tons per square inch. Zod won't be able to damage her at all with punches and physical strikes.

Translation: she has never fought in the manner you are saying. In fact, you were just making things up because you want her to win.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Translation: she has never fought in the manner you are saying. In fact, you were just making things up because you want her to win.

That key feat wank is getting ridiculous. Now it's being used for durability as well. I have actually been catching up on S2 of Supergirl (watched the first 15 episodes of S2 due to extreme boredom over the weekend), and there are several occasions where punches nowhere close to a million tons of force, or even close to the punches Zod was hitting Superman with for that matter, were having plenty of effect on her. She also doesn't use superspeed like he suggests. She does use it every now and then, but more like the MoS Kryptonians, where she releases a burst of speed to get to someone, but then proceeds to attack them at closer to human level speeds. And a lot of the time she does not use those bursts at all.

So, even after I disproved his claim that everyone does what he is doing, he is still insisting on dismissing probably 95% of her showings in favour of a few cherry-picked high ends to argue for her, even when the rest of her showings blatantly contradict his argument.

And the sad thing is I can almost guarantee that he will flip flop his stance once again should someone else try to use these same tactics against a character he is in favour of.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I have actually been catching up on S2 of Supergirl (watched the first 15 episodes of S2 due to extreme boredom over the weekend),


It's ok. You don't need to justify watching the show lol

I'm not up to date but it's actually a fun show.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's ok. You don't need to justify watching the show lol

I'm not up to date but it's actually a fun show.

Well, I really did have nothing else to do. Was keeping an eye on a friend's place while he was away, so decided to give it a go and got through most of it.

It's not a bad show in general, but the vfx makes me cringe sometimes. Some of it looks like it came out of the 90s.

Originally posted by h1a8
The key feat. The flash feats. They are the basis of my very argument.
She casually lifted a million tons. She can easily ko Zod in one shot if she wanted to.
She was fast enough to reach higher than the speed of sound instantly.

Yes, you cherry picked 2 of her feats and chose to ignore 99% of her other feats. Then you tried to apply your 2 feats to fields they don't even apply to.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Why do you guys still argue with h1 for pages? He never produces any of the feats that he claims in any of the threads he's in. He always argues the losing side on top of that. I don't get why you put in the energy.

The same reason people will slow down their cars and stare at the aftermath of a car accident.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, you cherry picked 2 of her feats and chose to ignore 99% of her other feats. Then you tried to apply your 2 feats to fields they don't even apply to. She will fight at her best ability. Lifting a million tons casually automatically means that she can punch with more force.

Only an idiot would believe that a person can't punch with a force they can CASUALLY LIFT.

Originally posted by h1a8
She will fight at her best ability. Lifting a million tons casually automatically means that she can punch with more force.

Only an idiot would believe that a person can't punch with a force they can CASUALLY LIFT.

Only an idiot would ignore all one's actual fighting feats even though we're talking about a fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Only an idiot would ignore all one's actual fighting feats even though we're talking about a fight.

He's essentially saying that he knows better than the actual show writers just what fighting to the best of her ability means, seeing as his arguments require her to fight beyond the level of ability and prowess shown on the show.

Funny thing is he was also arguing that the writers chose to write her "without" superspeed during her other fights, for the sake of plot. Which is also not really true. As I mentioned, they do add it to a few fights, but not even close to the degree he is suggesting. She uses it in small bursts to move around, but nowhere near the point where opponents are "frozen" from her perspective and she can easily one-shot blitz people while dodging their blows. She still gets tagged plenty by non-speedsters during the fights she is shown to use that ability. Which means that despite being shown to have superspeed in those fights, she is either unwilling (CIS, which is active unless stated otherwise) or incapable of using it in a manner H1 is claiming she will.

Also, watching the season 2 of the show (at least up until episode 16 so far), the key lift is a MASSIVE outlier. Nothing else comes close. Every other comparable feat, in terms of mass moved, she has to use both her arms (or her whole body), often with the aid of flight, and she is always shown straining to some degree.

^ Perhaps the key wasn't actually a million tons. I mean how do we know it was actually a million tons? Because Jimmy thought it was?

If we don't take Cap's pushing bulldozer far faster than Deathlok feat, then I don't get why we should take it at face value that key was a million tons, especially when it's such an outlier.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Perhaps the key wasn't actually a million tons. I mean how do we know it was actually a million tons? Because Jimmy thought it was?

If we don't take Cap's pushing bulldozer far faster than Deathlok feat, then I don't get why we should take it at face value that key was a million tons, especially when it's such an outlier.

A million ton key would have dug deep into the dirt. Like way way down.

Originally posted by h1a8
She will fight at her best ability. Lifting a million tons casually automatically means that she can punch with more force.

Only an idiot would believe that a person can't punch with a force they can CASUALLY LIFT.

She fights to her best ability while remaining in character. therefore if you want to claim she will hit with millions of tons of force. you actually have to show her doing so in fights.

Originally posted by FrothByte
A million ton key would have dug deep into the dirt. Like way way down.



lol that was the first thing I pointed out about the feat. But someone said "Fortress of Solitude" ground. So.... Who knows. It's not a fact though coming from Jimmy, that's for sure.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
lol that was the first thing I pointed out about the feat. But someone said "Fortress of Solitude" ground. So.... Who knows. It's not a fact though coming from Jimmy, that's for sure.

Well, to give some perspective, the entirety of the Golden Gate Bridge (the whole thing) weighs 887,000 tons. So, that's not even a million tons there.

Magneto can lift it

Well, current Magneto is planetary level, but he isn't in this thread.

I have no problem dismissing the feat as an outlier (SmvFL) if others agree to it.
My argument is
IF we use the key feat as her strength level then...

It is an outlier. Supergirl is pretty damn strong. But her other big strength feats, like stopping that ship in episode 15 (I think) of season 2 required her to strain to the point of screaming and almost giving up, and she needed to push with all her strength and flight propulsion to do it. And it is more consistent with her other higher end strength feats, like when she and Clark worked together to hold up that skyscraper, or the Fort Rozz lifting feat. The key feat is just way out there in comparison. But, in terms of strength, those other feats I mentioned would still put her above the vast majority of movie/tv characters.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It is an outlier. Supergirl is pretty damn strong. But her other big strength feats, like stopping that ship in episode 15 (I think) of season 2 required her to strain to the point of screaming and almost giving up, and she needed to push with all her strength and flight propulsion to do it. And it is more consistent with her other higher end strength feats, like when she and Clark worked together to hold up that skyscraper, or the Fort Rozz lifting feat. The key feat is just way out there in comparison. But, in terms of strength, those other feats I mentioned would still put her above the vast majority of movie/tv characters.

So what is your opinion of her being able to lift the million ton key in a forum fight if the op state that is lying on the battlefield for use?

In other words, would she be able to lift the key if it was on the battlefield of a forum fight?

I question whether it is really even a million tons (seeing that the only evidence supporting that claim is a comment from Jimmy), considering how it compares to the other feats I mentioned, and the difficulty with which she achieved them. Or another example, even though CW Zoom claimed that he can move at near light speed, I am not going to claim he will move at light speed in a forum fight, or that he was moving at near light speed on the show, when all his actual notable feats contradict that notion. Or just like I would question the whole bulldozer feat for Cap, seeing as it contradicts his other strength showings, and all we have to support the claim that he achieved that feat is a piece of dialogue.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I question whether it is really even a million tons (seeing that the only evidence supporting that claim is a comment from Jimmy), considering how it compares to the other feats I mentioned, and the difficulty with which she achieved them. Or another example, even though CW Zoom claimed that he can move at near light speed, I am not going to claim he will move at light speed in a forum fight, or that he was moving at near light speed on the show, when all his actual notable feats contradict that notion. Or just like I would question the whole bulldozer feat for Cap, seeing as it contradicts his other strength showings, and all we have to support the claim that he achieved that feat is a piece of dialogue.

It's impossible to question as it is writer's intentions.
If Jimmy were lying or misinformed then the writer would have portrayed it. Anything else is called making stuff up.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's impossible to question as it is writer's intentions.
If Jimmy were lying or misinformed then the writer would have portrayed it. Anything else is called making stuff up.

Not at all. Because I can say it was the writer's intent for her to show strain with lesser strength feats on a more consistent basis.

But hey, if that's your argument, then people are free to use Cap's bulldozer feat for strength, or argue that Zoom moves at near light speed, regardless of how it contradicts their other showings.

^ Yeah plus there's instances like AOTC where Anakin states that Obi-Wan is as powerful as Master Windu and as wise as Master Yoda, even though he clearly wasn't either of those things as of AOTC. So we can't just judge writers intentions like that.

In the recent Rebels episode Kenobi calls Luke The "Actual" Chosen One. So you could wrongly assume that's writer's intention as well, except the supervising director in an interview later confirms that's just what Obi-Wan thinks at that point in time.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Yeah plus there's instances like AOTC where Anakin states that Obi-Wan is as powerful as Master Windu and as wise as Master Yoda, even though he clearly wasn't either of those things as of AOTC. So we can't just judge writers intentions like that.

In the recent Rebels episode Kenobi calls Luke The "Actual" Chosen One. So you could wrongly assume that's writer's intention as well, except the supervising director in an interview later confirms that's just what Obi-Wan thinks at that point in time.

Yeah, hyperbole is used in films and TV (and books) a lot. If we took every single statement at face value, we'd be left with far more contradictions.

Unless the person making the statement is some narrator or omniscient character, we can't just accept everything as undeniable truth, especially when the statements in question are contradicted by other showings written by the same writers.

For example, if MCU Luke Cage lifts up some boulder or something at some point in the future, and another character claims it's 75 tons, I am going to be highly skeptical about that number, and most definitely not believe it without having some other proof to substantiate it, considering he has never shown anywhere near that level of strength.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's impossible to question as it is writer's intentions.
If Jimmy were lying or misinformed then the writer would have portrayed it. Anything else is called making stuff up.

Do you want to take this to a mod for a ruling?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you want to take this to a mod for a ruling?

Honestly, this seems to be the best solution at this point. This argument has been going on for multiple pages across two different threads, and has gotten absolutely nowhere. So, asking a mod whether Supergirl lifting a key that, based solely on Jimmy Olsen's word, weighs a million tons means she can strike with over a million tons of force in a forum fight, despite the fact that she has never come close to doing so onscreen, or the fact that the strain she showed during other high end strength feats brings the million ton number itself into question. Either way, it will put an end to this line of discussion.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Honestly, this seems to be the best solution at this point. This argument has been going on for multiple pages across two different threads, and has gotten absolutely nowhere. So, asking a mod whether Supergirl lifting a key that, based solely on Jimmy Olsen's word, weighs a million tons means she can strike with over a million tons of force in a forum fight, despite the fact that she has never come close to doing so onscreen, or the fact that the strain she showed during other high end strength feats brings the million ton number itself into question. Either way, it will put an end to this line of discussion.

You'll notice that this isn't the first time I've suggested getting a mod ruling for this topic, h1's lack of response while also calling people trolls for disagreeing with him should tell everyone what his real end-game is.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Not at all. Because I can say it was the writer's intent for her to show strain with lesser strength feats on a more consistent basis.

But hey, if that's your argument, then people are free to use Cap's bulldozer feat for strength, or argue that Zoom moves at near light speed, regardless of how it contradicts their other showings. If its writer's intentions then it happened. But whether we can use it (due to PIS or SmvFl) is another story.
It's a valid argument to throw PIS outliers out regardless of writer's intentions.

Supergirl lifted a million tons because the writer wrote her to.
Just because it contradicts her other showings doesn't change that fact.

What evidence exists that supports the writer tried to show Jimmy was lying or deluded?

Originally posted by Silent Master
You'll notice that this isn't the first time I've suggested getting a mod ruling for this topic, h1's lack of response while also calling people trolls for disagreeing with him should tell everyone what his real end-game is. I have a life unlike you. You seem to be on here trolling 24 hours a day. If I don't respond then it means I'm simply living my life (working, sex, drinking, chess club, etc)

You just answered yourself. In contradicts everything else. And you were happy to label the Bulldozer feat "hearsay", so what evidence is there that the SHIELD instructor was lying? Nothing shown or stated on the show (I eventually got around to watching that episode).

Both feats in question contradict other consistent shown feats by the characters. The weight of the key, as well as Cap's completion of the bulldozer, rest squarely on the word of onscreen individuals, with no other evidence supporting either notion.

But anyway, just agree to the mod ruling about the usability of the feat, and we can move past this. Whether it goes in your favour or ours, at least we can move on with the discussion from there on. Because this is getting tiresome, and I am losing interest in continuing at this point.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have a life unlike you. You seem to be on here trolling 24 hours a day. If I don't respond then it means I'm simply living my life (working, sex, drinking, chess club, etc)


Do you agree to get a mod ruling?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You just answered yourself. In contradicts everything else. And you were happy to label the Bulldozer feat "hearsay", so what evidence is there that the SHIELD instructor was lying? Nothing shown or stated on the show (I eventually got around to watching that episode).

Both feats in question contradict other consistent shown feats by the characters. The weight of the key, as well as Cap's completion of the bulldozer, rest squarely on the word of onscreen individuals, with no other evidence supporting either notion.

But anyway, just agree to the mod ruling about the usability of the feat, and we can move past this. Whether it goes in your favour or ours, at least we can move on with the discussion from there on. Because this is getting tiresome, and I am losing interest in continuing at this point.

To motivate him.
I took the scene naturally as he was lying on purpose to get him to push harder.

Whether we use the key feat or not doesn't change a person's opinion about it.
If I think SG wins for various reasons and you think Thor wins then that is our opinion.

Anyway, I hinted a billion times that we don't have to use the feat due to being an extreme outlier. I asked for agreement from multiple people (not one) so that we can all be on the same page.

With that said, imo SG by definition is suppose to have superspeed and reflexes.
Feats just determine the level of them. Some here are assuming she will fight and operate at human level speeds and reflexes. This is where I greatly disagree.

So, do you agree to get a mod ruling?

Originally posted by h1a8
To motivate him.
I took the scene naturally as he was lying on purpose to get him to push harder.


You have zero onscreen proof that he was lying. You barely seem to have any actual knowledge about the show (you openly admitted that you weren't even aware of the feat in question until it got brought up), so your personal interpretation of what SHIELD instructors would and would not do to motivate someone is irrelevant. You are now guilty of what you were accusing others of i.e. making things up.

Originally posted by h1a8

Whether we use the key feat or not doesn't change a person's opinion about it.
If I think SG wins for various reasons and you think Thor wins then that is our opinion.

Anyway, I hinted a billion times that we don't have to use the feat due to being an extreme outlier. I asked for agreement from multiple people (not one) so that we can all be on the same page.

With that said, imo SG by definition is suppose to have superspeed and reflexes.
Feats just determine the level of them. Some here are assuming she will fight and operate at human level speeds and reflexes. This is where I greatly disagree.

A. This is Versus Zod. Go argue about Thor in the other thread.

B. Then stop going on about the key already. People have made it repeatedly obvious that they don't consider the key feat as being viable representation for these threads, yet you keep bringing it up.

C. The way they portray her superspeed in combat does not align with how you are talking it up. I have already pointed out that the writers do include it in some fights, but they never portray the "opponent frozen" perspective, like they do with proper CW Speedsters. She uses it more akin to how MoS Kryptonians do, like Faora used hers.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller


C. The way they portray her superspeed in combat does not align with how you are talking it up. I have already pointed out that the writers do include it in some fights, but they never portray the "opponent frozen" perspective, like they do with proper CW Speedsters. She uses it more akin to how MoS Kryptonians do, like Faora used hers.


Hmm only issue with this is she's raced Flash twice now.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Hmm only issue with this is she's raced Flash twice now.

First time they were just running in an open field. So, it was simply a situation of propelling her limbs in a direction at a fast enough speed (which, as I have pointed out, the writers do make use of in some of her fights). Second time she was using flight. DCEU Clark can fly at similar, if not greater, speeds, yet he doesn't perceive the world in Speedster slowmo either.

And another indicator is how they perceive the world outside of combat as well. For example, when Barry types on a computer, or reads a book, he does it at superspeed. Kara does not.

^ Although when she raced Barry on foot, she did also chuck him mid-race.

And chasing Barry while flying must require reflexes to stop and turn when Barry does without smashing into buildings.

Personally I just think they just beef up her speed when Barry's around. But nonetheless it's canon.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Although when she raced Barry on foot, she did also chuck him mid-race.

And chasing Barry while flying must require reflexes to stop and turn when Barry does without smashing into buildings.

Personally I just think they just beef up her speed when Barry's around. But nonetheless it's canon.

Characters being able to fly and maneuver rapidly while airborne doesn't really translate to combat reflexes. Otherwise, Chris Evans Human Torch would have some of the best combat reflexes around, seeing as he was keeping up with the Silver Surfer, despite the fact that the Surfer could just phase through any obstacle in his way, whereas Johnny had to go around/take evasive actions. She also didn't always follow the same routes he did during flight. He had to stick to the ground, duck in between obstacles etc. whereas she could just zip through clear air a lot of the time. Also, again, DCEU Superman had to zip in between buildings when pursuing Zod during their end MoS fight but, even based just on the JLA trailers alone, we can already see that that Flash's speed and perception of time is depicted a lot differently to Clark's.

And her actual combat use of superspeed is also canon, which paints a different picture to characters like Flash, and more akin to DCEU Kryptonians. But even that could be useful, because she could still theoretically do things like a superspeed shouldercharge or similar.

Race car drivers and jet fighter pilots also travel at very high speeds and can maneuver at those high speeds. Doesn't mean they have the reflexes of a boxer or can do very fast drum rolls like a professional drummer.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Race car drivers and jet fighter pilots also travel at very high speeds and can maneuver at those high speeds. Doesn't mean they have the reflexes of a boxer or can do very fast drum rolls like a professional drummer.

Pretty much. Just like skilled drummers or boxers wouldn't necessarily be able to fly/drive at high speeds with the same proficiency as professional racers/pilots. There are multiple factors, such as different mental processes, motions, muscle groups utilised etc. that come into play.

You guys are forgetting Distance?

It completes the equation and determines time.
Speed alone is irrelevant.
For example, if I were traveling at 1000 times the speed of light in space then I easily have the reflexes to avoid the Sun. That's because the distance is so large.

But moving fast while maneuvering and reacting in small distances shows reflex speed. So all the examples you guys gave are irrelevant.
SG has maneuvered and reacted in small distances while moving fast.

SG also has done multiple tasks in superspeed (like change into SG, perform various tasks for Ally McBeal, etc).