EARLY VERSION of Yoda vs Sidious - INSANE!

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DarthAnt66
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs4g9m_star-wars-episode-iii-deleted-scenes-senate-duel-animatic_shortfilms

Starts at 6 minutes.

DarthAnt66
DUDE THE ENDING FORCE MATCHOFF IS INSANE.

Sidious straight-up tearing through the ****ing Senate.

Beniboybling
DUUUUUUDE.

Kurk
Yeah but it's slightly retarded

DarthAnt66
Not even sure Legends Sidious could destroy the Senate walls with lightning so nonchalantly.

TheNuisanceBird
I saw this like 2 years ago. The early Obi-Wan and Anakin fight was what the cutscenes in the first lego Star Wars were based off of.

The original Grievous chase was also pretty cool.

Yoda kicking Sidious made it into the graphic novel.

Azronger
Pretty dope

SunRazer
Interesting. Fight had Sidious run away rather than Yoda, which fits the claim that Yoda ended up leaving the fight for reasons other than actually losing.

Trocity
That was sweet.

DarthAnt66
Anyone else think it's possible that when Palpatine get's lit the **** up with his lightning, that was actually the original version of his facial transformation?

SunRazer
Possibly.

Didn't like how the cameras showed the fight though.

DarthAnt66
I thought it was neat. It's hard to tell how good it would be w/o seeing their actual expressions and whatnot.

I prefer the version we currently have overall, but would have liked for a more protracted final Force clash.

SunRazer
I meant the Senate holocams displaying the whole fight publicly, not the actual film shots. It's kind of hard to see people still supporting Palpatine after that, especially since the Mind Control thing was an EU explanation.

DarthAnt66
I was under the impression the holocams were just there to show certain images within the Senate. I don't think the entire galaxy was watching.

SunRazer
Fair enough; nobody else was in the Senate so nobody would've seen it. Don't the holocams and screens all end up being destroyed in the fight anyway? Guess he just replaced them afterward.

Kurk
loled at sheev destroying the monitor as if that was going to save him

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I was under the impression the holocams were just there to show certain images within the Senate. I don't think the entire galaxy was watching.

Lol That would be quite an event.

TheNuisanceBird

DarthAnt66
Seemed like Palpatine was salty he just got lightning-****ed.

Azronger
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not even sure Legends Sidious could destroy the Senate walls with lightning so nonchalantly.

Legends Palpatine would casually destroy them with Lightning, lmao.

Petrus
This would've been imho way cooler than what it actually ended up being, with a few tweaks here and there.

Sinious
Originally posted by Azronger
Legends Palpatine would casually destroy them with Lightning, lmao. thumb up

Look at the damage done from his force clash with Starkiller.

Darth Thor
Between this and the script it looks like Yoda was always the superior combatant in George's mind.

ares834
Shame that the version that Lucas actually released shows otherwise.

UCanShootMyNova
http://www.wetheunicorns.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/clickbait-featured-750x400.jpg

relentless1
Sids was a little ***** in this version, I'm happier with the version we got that had them stalemate although some of what was in this fight should've and obviously was meant to be in the final version, like how they got onto the chancellors podium and how Sidious got away from that spot onto the senate pods

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by ares834
Shame that the version that Lucas actually released shows otherwise.
if you just took the movie at face vakue you could argue sids falling back after yoda rallied was an indication that yoda was about to win.

Off course, that interpretation no longer holds true due to the various sources afterwards making clear yoda was on the losing end

Darth Abonis
I'm glad it was deleted. Yoda would never use 2 people as a human shield, even if they were Royal Guards

NTJack0
Some of it was neat, Sidious came off as way too much of a ***** though.

Lord Stark
Way cooler. + Holy shit the feats. Sidious' lightning blowing apart the Senate, so many pods thrown. Damn.


Originally posted by Darth Thor
Between this and the script it looks like Yoda was always the superior combatant in George's mind.

Yeah, this has solidified that imo. Yoda disarming Sidious in the final version then force wrecking him in the other one.

Azronger
Originally posted by Sinious
thumb up

Look at the damage done from his force clash with Starkiller.

The damage he did to Vader would be a better indicator

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Way cooler. + Holy shit the feats. Sidious' lightning blowing apart the Senate, so many pods thrown. Damn.




Yeah, this has solidified that imo. Yoda disarming Sidious in the final version then force wrecking him in the other one.

So are we forgetting about the novel lucas line edited explicitly saying sids was stringer?

Beniboybling
No. These INSANE scrapped animatics take priority, like the one where Maul pinned Palps to a wall. sad

ares834
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No. These INSANE scrapped animatics take priority, like the one where Maul pinned Palps to a wall. sad

laughing out loud

thumb up

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
So are we forgetting about the novel lucas line edited explicitly saying sids was stringer?


I don't remember the novel saying Sidious was stronger. More like Yoda just didn't have what it took and the fight was lost before it began e.t.c.


In any case pretty sure the script which Lucas directly wrote himself and far more consistent with the final film (almost identical) is clearer to his vision than a source he edited and is wayyy off the final version.

Rockydonovang
Well it does seem he revised the script to show them tying, but that doesn't change that side had the edge and was the(/negligibly marginal) as we can derive from the plethora of secondary sources as well as the senior novel/comic saying aids had an edge.

Darth Thor
Think he just edged it out at the end personally due to Yoda taking a greater fall.

That happens in every version save the novel which really doesn't get into much detail concerning the moves of the fight

Lord Stark
Lol Yoda knocking Palps on his ass with just saber technique.

Darth Thor
^ Pretty much all versions seem to put Yoda > Sidious in Sabers at least.

Force and All Out however isn't as clear.

SunRazer
Correction: Two or three versions feature Yoda disarming Sidious, which Lucas and Gillard confirm is a product of the environmental setting rather than Yoda being better. It's a fact that Yoda isn't more skilled.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by SunRazer
Correction: Two or three versions feature Yoda disarming Sidious, which Lucas and Gillard confirm is a product of the environmental setting rather than Yoda being better. It's a fact that Yoda isn't more skilled.
thumb up

Darth Thor
Originally posted by SunRazer
Correction: Two or three versions feature Yoda disarming Sidious, which Lucas and Gillard confirm is a product of the environmental setting rather than Yoda being better. It's a fact that Yoda isn't more skilled.


Those 2 or 3 sources are pretty important ones. Ones directly written by Lucas, and no other source contradicts that either.


Where did Lucas confirm Yoda only disarmed Sidious due to the environment?

Gillard puts them on the same level, but even between levels there can be inferences.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Those 2 or 3 sources are pretty important ones. Ones directly written by Lucas, and no other source contradicts that either.


Where did Lucas confirm Yoda only disarmed Sidious due to the environment?

Gillard puts them on the same level, but even between levels there can be inferences.
And both Gillard and lucas have made clear that if there's a difference, it favors sids, not yoda

SunRazer
The novel's directly written by Lucas, and doesn't feature such a scene. The film intentionally leaves it ambiguous, almost certainly because, again, they decided to shift from having Yoda as the stronger one to Palpatine being stronger or them being equals.

Gillard has stated that between in a contest between level nines, there is no inherent difference in talent, just a matter of fighting styles and environmental advantages that decide the fight.





And we know that Sidious' fighting style is unbeatable as far as the film characters go, per Lucas (and Gillard):



There are further quotes from Gillard to support Lucas' own claim (not that it's necessary, of course), where he claims Sidious is better than Yoda in a way (this likely pertains to style).

Regardless, given that fights between level nines are decided solely by fighting styles and the environment, and we know you can't beat Sidious stylistically, it stands to reason that the environment is responsible for giving Yoda the edge he needed to disarm Palpatine.

Rockydonovang
gillad's also stated sids is "better in a way because of the darkside".

SunRazer
Yeah, I mentioned that already.

Rockydonovang
missed that

there was also some thing from the behind the scenes where yoda put all his power in just pushing sid's blade off his.

SunRazer
Yep. It's from an Insider interview with Jamy Wheless, a member of the production crew for RotS (animator, IIRC, so he probably animated Yoda during the fight against Sidious).

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
And both Gillard and lucas have made clear that if there's a difference, it favors sids, not yoda


You keep saying that, but I've yet to see any such quote from Lucas, and the ones from Gillard are ambiguous at best.



Originally posted by SunRazer
The novel's directly written by Lucas, and doesn't feature such a scene. The film intentionally leaves it ambiguous, almost certainly because, again, they decided to shift from having Yoda as the stronger one to Palpatine being stronger or them being equals.


No, the novel was "edited" by Lucas. The script was directly written by him. Plus the script is almost exactly the same as the film. The book is not even close.

So clearly Lucas's vision is better portrayed in the script.

Not to mention the Novel really doesn't go into any specific moves regarding the fight. The junoir novel however confirms Yoda disarming Palpatine.

As for the Film leaving it "ambigous", either we believe the script where Yoda disarms Palpatine in the missing scene, or we believe Palpatine put his Saber away because he didn't favour his chances. Either way, Yoda looks better in the Saber match up.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Gillard has stated that between in a contest between level nines, there is no inherent difference in talent, just a matter of fighting styles and environmental advantages that decide the fight.


That does not mean they are exact equals, or that the split of wins and losses between them would be exactly 50/50.





Originally posted by SunRazer
And we know that Sidious' fighting style is unbeatable as far as the film characters go, per Lucas (and Gillard):


Per Gillard. Not Lucas.

And clearly he's not unbeatable. Just ask Mace Windu. You guys take hyperbole way too seriously when it comes to Sidious.



Originally posted by SunRazer
There are further quotes from Gillard to support Lucas' own claim (not that it's necessary, of course), where he claims Sidious is better than Yoda in a way (this likely pertains to style).



What claim from Lucas?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Regardless, given that fights between level nines are decided solely by fighting styles and the environment, and we know you can't beat Sidious stylistically, it stands to reason that the environment is responsible for giving Yoda the edge he needed to disarm Palpatine.


He never said "solely."

Which environment are you talking about? The senate pod. Because if you do or do not remember they fought on neutral ground first. Now either Palpatine fled to the senate pod because he wasn't fairing too well in the Saber fight, or we take the animatronics where Yoda forces Palpatine onto the Senate pod.

Your choice, but either way Yoda looks better in Sabers.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by SunRazer
Yep. It's from an Insider interview with Jamy Wheless, a member of the production crew for RotS (animator, IIRC, so he probably animated Yoda during the fight against Sidious).


No one's denying Yoda and Sidious are not on the same level. The question is if they're exact equals.

The film shows pretty much a stalemate until Yoda gets the worse fall.

But as far as Sabers go, both the script and junior novel confirm Yoda won that. The animatronics frankly shows Yoda kicking Sidious's butt in that department.

SunRazer
1. The novel was edited word-for-word by Lucas per Stover himself, and then personally approved of. That's not writing the novel per se, but that's basically like writing it. My wording was poor but the point stands. The novel, which features considerable influence from Lucas, doesn't involve the disarmament. Nor does the film, the prime source.

2. Nobody said anything about 50/50. You said that Yoda > Sidious, which the quotes disprove.

3. That was something Lucas said, though it's clear that Gillard agrees with him on the matter.

4. Mace beating Sidious had nothing to do with Sidious' fighting style, lol, especially when Mace's win in of itself is suspect.

5. Well, no, because between equals, or even near-equals, things like back and forths exist. Even AotC Obi-Wan and Anakin managed to drive Dooku back for a time. It's not outside the bounds of reason for Yoda to drive Palpatine into the podium, at which point environmental disadvantages kept Palpatine from driving Yoda back out.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Darth Thor
No one's denying Yoda and Sidious are not on the same level. The question is if they're exact equals.

The film shows pretty much a stalemate until Yoda gets the worse fall.

But as far as Sabers go, both the script and junior novel confirm Yoda won that. The animatronics frankly shows Yoda kicking Sidious's butt in that department.

The quote says Yoda met his match. It can't get any clearer than that. You're in denial.

The animatronics aren't even remotely valid, lol. They were posted here for entertainment and curiosity's sake, nothing more. They represent an extremely early version of the fight that was scrapped in favour of the one we saw in the final release of the film. Puzzling that you dismiss the RotS novel on the grounds of it being based off an earlier script but you're willing to throw those standards under the bus to use the animatronics because it supports your stance.

Beniboybling
*animatics. uhuh

Darth Thor
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. The novel was edited word-for-word by Lucas per Stover himself, and then personally approved of. That's not writing the novel per se, but that's basically like writing it. My wording was poor but the point stands. The novel, which features considerable influence from Lucas, doesn't involve the disarmament. Nor does the film, the prime source.


Line for line actually. It's still not on the same level as a source Lucas wrote from scratch and is pretty much identical to the film (the prime source as you put it).

The novel doesn't go into enough detail into the fight, but the junior novelisation confirms the disarmament.

The film doesn't show the disarming itself, but it doesn't contradict the script either and actually aligns with it given we don't see his Saber again.


Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Nobody said anything about 50/50. You said that Yoda > Sidious, which the quotes disprove.


I said in Sabers only. Not in the Force or in All-Out.

And that's going by multiple sources (one written by Lucas himself) claiming Yoda won the Saber fight, and nothing contradicting it.

Now seeing the early animatics (for Beni) I'm more convinced than ever that Lucas always had Yoda as the superior duelist.


Originally posted by SunRazer
3. That was something Lucas said, though it's clear that Gillard agrees with him on the matter.



What did Lucas say exactly and where?

Originally posted by SunRazer
4. Mace beating Sidious had nothing to do with Sidious' fighting style, lol, especially when Mace's win in of itself is suspect.


Your evidence of Sidious being >/= Yoda in Sabers was the quote that Sidious's style can't be beaten. And yet it was. That's my point.


Originally posted by SunRazer
5. Well, no, because between equals, or even near-equals, things like back and forths exist. Even AotC Obi-Wan and Anakin managed to drive Dooku back for a time. It's not outside the bounds of reason for Yoda to drive Palpatine into the podium, at which point environmental disadvantages kept Palpatine from driving Yoda back out.


Still kind of shows Yoda being in overall control of the Saber battle both on neutral ground and on the senate pod.

Also Yoda has an extremely high level Soresu mastery, so until we see him being driven back, we can't just assume he would be.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by SunRazer
The quote says Yoda met his match. It can't get any clearer than that. You're in denial.


Not really. It shows Yoda's finally gone up against an actual peer. No need to read anymore into that.


Originally posted by SunRazer
The animatronics aren't even remotely valid, lol. They were posted here for entertainment and curiosity's sake, nothing more. They represent an extremely early version of the fight that was scrapped in favour of the one we saw in the final release of the film. Puzzling that you dismiss the RotS novel on the grounds of it being based off an earlier script but you're willing to throw those standards under the bus to use the animatronics because it supports your stance.


Point is each source with Lucas's involvement shows Yoda winning the Saber match up.

I could say the same to you about dismissing sources much closer to the film (the script) in favor of the source you like (the novel, but excluding the junior novel), and yet now you want to completely throw out an earlier but more complete version of the fight on the basis that it differs in places from the film erm

Rockydonovang
to be fair, wouldn't the script have as much weight as the novel as lucas wrote it?

Not that disproves anything as yoda disarming sid can be attributed to enviromental disadvantages with gillard saying at level 9, enviromental advantages can make a difference.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not really. It shows Yoda's finally gone up against an actual peer. No need to read anymore into that.

Point is each source with Lucas's involvement shows Yoda winning the Saber match up.

I could say the same to you about dismissing sources much closer to the film (the script) in favor of the source you like (the novel, but excluding the junior novel), and yet now you want to completely throw out an earlier but more complete version of the fight on the basis that it differs in places from the film erm

The definition of "meet your match" is to meet an equal. As I said, you're in denial.

Except that's wrong. It doesn't happen in either the novel or the film, both of which carry Lucas' involvement and are actually canon sources (with the film being the prime source). And the junior novel didn't have Lucas' involvement.

At no point did I say I dismissed the junior novel.

I'm forgetting why we need to discuss this, though. I thought we were discussing that Yoda's disarmings of Palpatine were circumstantial and not a product of superiority?

Rockydonovang
the senior novelizations are no longer canon, not that changes anything really as yoda's disarming of sids was circumstantial and on even ground sids is at least equal per authority

SunRazer
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Line for line actually. It's still not on the same level as a source Lucas wrote from scratch and is pretty much identical to the film (the prime source as you put it).

The novel doesn't go into enough detail into the fight, but the junior novelisation confirms the disarmament.

The film doesn't show the disarming itself, but it doesn't contradict the script either and actually aligns with it given we don't see his Saber again.

Nope, Stover says: "I mean, he literally went over it word-by-word, even to the point of altering descriptives to adjust the characters' inflections."

And since you love the early animatics, it shows Sidious just running at first and still having his lightsaber during the segment of the duel that you claimed Sidious had already been disarmed by.



Yeah, I'm talking about sabers as well.



Well, the early animatics featured Lucas' original vision of Yoda just being better than Palpatine overall, a concept entirely retconned by the actual canon.



This quote here:



That's obviously not a Gillard quote because the person there is referring to Gillard in third person, lol.



Yeah, you're interpreting it like a donkey, that's why.

It doesn't mean anyone taking up Sidious' form is suddenly invincible. It's saying that between, say, two equals, fighting on neutral ground, Sidious' form isn't stylistically beaten by any of the others.

Mace's victory in of itself is suspect and doesn't change the quote's meaning whatsoever.



They both do. However, Yoda hasn't been shown using Soresu before (the defensive part against Dooku is explicitly noted by Legends sources to still be Ataru).

Lord Stark
Originally posted by SunRazer
Correction: Two or three versions feature Yoda disarming Sidious, which Lucas and Gillard confirm is a product of the environmental setting rather than Yoda being better. It's a fact that Yoda isn't more skilled.

When did they confirm this? Yoda was flat out a better swordsman by the end of ROTS because Sidious didn't have his second saber. They say in one of TCWs interviews Sidious would have wanted to use both sabers against Yoda but couldn't because he lost one.

In Raw Swordsmanship:
Sidious using his preferred form (Jar'Kai)=Yoda>Vaapad Windu~One-Saber Sidious

Although if I had to pick who would win even with Jar'Kai I'd likely still pick Yoda.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by SunRazer
Nope, Stover says: "I mean, he literally went over it word-by-word, even to the point of altering descriptives to adjust the characters' inflections."


That's great. But at this point I'm just finding it amusing that you can't see how George Lucas writing a script himself which is almost identical to his end product is a far better indicator of Lucas's vision than a novel which he edited and is completely different to the end product.

That said the novel doesn't go over all the specifics of the Saber fight (not even close), and the Junior novel confirms Yoda disarming him- All points you keep purposefully ignoring.

Originally posted by SunRazer
And since you love the early animatics, it shows Sidious just running at first and still having his lightsaber during the segment of the duel that you claimed Sidious had already been disarmed by.


Of course those parts which directly contradict the movie are not canon. But funny thing is those animatics are a hell of a lot closer to the movie than the majority of the novel.



Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, I'm talking about sabers as well.


Then you'd be wrong. There's literally Zero evidence Palpatine > Yoda in Sabers, but sufficient enough evidence to argue Yoda is > Palpatine. Of course the majority of evidence suggests a clear level of parity there.



Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, the early animatics featured Lucas' original vision of Yoda just being better than Palpatine overall, a concept entirely retconned by the actual canon.


Likewise I could argue the Novel's assertion that Yoda was clearly no match for Palpatine is entirely retconned by the film.

But again the animatics are far closer to the final product than the novel. And every version made directly by Lucas shows Yoda winning the Saber battle. Except perhaps the final version, but the final version doesn't actually contradict the script at all.



Originally posted by SunRazer
This quote here:



That's obviously not a Gillard quote because the person there is referring to Gillard in third person, lol.


LOL There's literally no evidence Lucas said that. There are others speaking in that conversation.



Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, you're interpreting it like a donkey, that's why.


Says the guy whose making up his own Lucas quotes LMAO


Originally posted by SunRazer
It doesn't mean anyone taking up Sidious' form is suddenly invincible.


Thanks for admitting your whole argument is basically moot, because nothing anywhere contradicts the notion that Yoda can and did disarm Sidious.


Originally posted by SunRazer
It's saying that between, say, two equals, fighting on neutral ground, Sidious' form isn't stylistically beaten by any of the others.

Strange then why Palpatine would choose to take the fight away from neutral ground.

Unless of course Yoda forced him onto the pod as portrayed in the animatics.


Originally posted by SunRazer
Mace's victory in of itself is suspect and doesn't change the quote's meaning whatsoever.


There's far more actual evidence that Yoda won the Saber fight against Sidious than there is of Palpatine throwing the Saber fight against Mace.

Especially given that the majority of the "suspect" part was during the Lightning exchange.



Originally posted by SunRazer
They both do. However, Yoda hasn't been shown using Soresu before (the defensive part against Dooku is explicitly noted by Legends sources to still be Ataru).


According to the novel and comic, Yoda was standing in the exact same spot deflecting all of Dooku's hits. There was nothing Ataru about that.

In any case, it doesn't change the fact that Yoda's defenses are clearly exceptional.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Lord Stark
When did they confirm this?


Lucas has never said that. They're making that up.

Gillard however has stated that a fight between Level 9's can go either way depending on Environment and other factors. Of course if we go by that then it would be more evidence suggesting Mace's Saber victory over Palpatine was a legitimate one.



Originally posted by Lord Stark
They say in one of TCWs interviews Sidious would have wanted to use both sabers against Yoda but couldn't because he lost one.


It's here:

http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/clone-wars/the-lawless-trivia-gallery

Panel 3/10

SunRazer
Bored, so I'll post around here for a while again...

Originally posted by Lord Stark
When did they confirm this? Yoda was flat out a better swordsman by the end of ROTS because Sidious didn't have his second saber. They say in one of TCWs interviews Sidious would have wanted to use both sabers against Yoda but couldn't because he lost one.

In Raw Swordsmanship:
Sidious using his preferred form (Jar'Kai)=Yoda>Vaapad Windu~One-Saber Sidious

Although if I had to pick who would win even with Jar'Kai I'd likely still pick Yoda.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's here:

http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/clone-wars/the-lawless-trivia-gallery

Panel 3/10

lmfao Nowhere is it stated that he would want to use it against Yoda. Only that he couldn't since he lost one.

I'll reply to the rest later.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Darth Thor
That's great. But at this point I'm just finding it amusing that you can't see how George Lucas writing a script himself which is almost identical to his end product is a far better indicator of Lucas's vision than a novel which he edited and is completely different to the end product.

That said the novel doesn't go over all the specifics of the Saber fight (not even close), and the Junior novel confirms Yoda disarming him- All points you keep purposefully ignoring.

Purposefully ignoring what? You do realize my original post which triggered this discussion referenced the sources which show Yoda disarming him, right? All I'm saying is that I don't think it was always Lucas' intent as you claim, particularly because it doesn't happen in at least one moment.

The script is a guideline, and not a canon source like the novel is (back in the old Canon anyway), no matter what similarities it possesses with the film. The script and the film generally should be considered one source, as well, because they're basically the same — the script is the film in written form. But it doesn't really matter either way.



Indeed.



There's nothing wrong about what I said. They're equals; all I said is that Yoda being better isn't true.

As I said, Yoda's victory can be chalked down to environmental factors. Which invalidates the use of his showings as evidence that he's superior.



Which doesn't change my point that Yoda isn't better. You're conflating what I said in my first post with Palpatine being better, which is something other sources have said, often after the fact.



Except in the animatics, Palpatine isn't disarmed at the point you claim him to be.

And even provided that is the case, the environment would still be a valid reason for dismissing the showing as circumstantial.



Others like who?

I don't have material on hand to confirm the speaker, so I'll drop the fact that it's from Lucas but that appears to be what it's like. Regardless, it's a valid source.



My argument was that Yoda isn't better than Sidious, and it revolves around the use of environmental circumstances to dismiss Yoda's disarming of Sidious. I'm not visually defect; I'm fully capable of seeing what happens on-screen. Unfortunately for you, the fact that Yoda disarms Sidious in no way equates to him being better, especially if, again, level 9 fights are decided by the environment or style as opposed to whoever's outright better.



Perhaps because seeking advantageous ground is a logical thing to do if you're in a situation where neither you nor your opponent can win?

Or, again, Yoda drove him back as part of a back-and-forth (again, even AotC Obi-Wan while tired could drive Dooku back like that), and the Senate Podium disadvantaged Palpatine and prevented him from driving Yoda back out.



Depends on the source, again. Certainly not Gillard's rankings, which confirm that Mace's win was environmental again (notice how Sidious' fighting changes drastically after the window shatters and he's forced on the ledge). The novel also makes a point of this by mentioning that Sidious makes sacrifices by using the Force to give his feet grip on the slippery permacrete, which hinders his fighting. I don't believe the same is ever noted of Mace.



That has nothing to do with it being Ataru or not, and sourcebooks do mention that Yoda dodges all of Dooku's attacks in an expert display of Ataru. Soresu is never once mentioned. You can be grounded and still use Ataru.

As for Yoda's exceptional defenses, that's obvious.

NewGuy01
"He was standing still and blocking attacks, so he couldn't have been using Ataru."

...what? Do people actually think that every move of the martial art Ataru involves a flip, or that it's users can't block attacks without switching forms for some reason? laughing out loud

Rockydonovang
Yoda's enslaved to form and isn't that great of a duelist. Only a duelist of Kas'm's caliber can properly switch forms

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