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Come on guys, seriously?

Myth #1: Yoda and Dooku are comparable in the Force.

So, this myth is derived from the Fact Files, Lightsabers, and the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia:







All of these quotes are misleading because they suggest that Yoda actively fought Dooku in a Force matchup. This is false. Yoda only unleashed one attack at Dooku's direction, and such attack was the power of Dooku redirected back at him. Thus, the second source is irrelevant given Yoda never actively tried to best Dooku with the Force. Further, the third source is actually inaccurate and therefore can be dismissed as such, since Yoda never directed any telekinetic assault at Dooku.

The first source, however, is rather ambiguous and thus tricky to reconcile. As shown in the actual film, Yoda never "needed to resort to his weapon" under the merit that his Force power was not enough. We can conclude this because Yoda never unleashed a Force attack to begin with. The film shows Yoda activating his lightsaber only after Dooku directly challenges him to a lightsaber duel. Therefore, the quote seems to convey that Yoda is stuck in a position where he must either fight with his lightsaber or fend-off Dooku, who is fully combat-ready with a lightsaber in-hand, completely unarmed. Thus, Yoda needed to resort to his weapon because, otherwise, there was a substantial threat of death.

--- --- ---

Further, a wealth of quotes establish Yoda's significant superiority to Dooku in the Force.

Only one source, the Attack of the Clones novelization, states that Yoda had difficulty when fending off Dooku's Force attacks. This could simply be referring to the generic difficult attributed to any lightning. It is stated that deflecting lightning is one of the most difficult of powers and only the most powerful Jedi can accomplish it. Every other existing source states that Yoda easily handled Dooku's lightning. It is logical to assume that Dooku unleashed these attacks with the intent to destroy Yoda, and thus the power behind them would be a reflection of his power. The fact Yoda battered them aside like they were nothing therefore means that the energy behind the machinery and lightning was significantly inferior to Yoda's:











Note that the Fact Files and the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, two sources that "suggested" Yoda and Dooku were close in aforementioned quotes, also confirm that Yoda easily handled Dooku's Force attacks. This makes it obvious that the existing interpretations of those two sources are inaccurate. Otherwise, the source would feature such a blatant contradiction that it should be completely dismissed anyway.

--- --- ---

Secondly, Yoda and Dooku being close in the Force would not make sense due to Palpatine's established vast superiority to Dooku (since over a dozen sources state Yoda is Palpatine's equal):











The most obvious comparison to be made is Yoda's difficulty handling Dooku and Palpatine's lightning. Yoda easily handled the former, but was almost overwhelmed by the latter.

Finally, I'd like to direct your attention to this quote:



The quote not only establishes Yoda's superiority to Dooku, but suggests it was by such an extent that the Force factor alone prevented all of Dooku's efforts to even touch Yoda.

SUMMARY: The few quotes that state Yoda and Dooku were evenly matched are either interpreted falsely or directly contradicted by a greater number of sources, including many quotes derived from the same works "suggesting" them as equals. To state that Dooku is comparable to Yoda is blatantly inconsistent given Yoda's ease handling Dooku's lightning and the vast distinction between their fight and Yoda's fight with Palpatine.

Myth #2: Yoda and Dooku are comparable in lightsaber combat.

There's too many quotes here for me to quote individually:

>"Despite his deadly lightsaber skills, Darth Tyranus is no match for his former Master Yoda when they duel on Geonosis." - Beware of the Sith

>"When Count Dooku realies that Yoda is more than a match for him, he flees in his Solar Sailer." - Mysteries of the Jedi

> "The count left Obi-Wan beaten and Anakin without his right arm, and may whave killed them both if not for Yoda, who arrived and launched a whirlwind attack. Dooku barely escaped with his life." - New Essential Chronology

> "Count Dooku hurls Force-Lightning at Yoda, but Yoda easily deflects the attack. Yoda attacks, driving Dooku back. Realizing lightsaber skills are not enough, Dooku uses the Force to topple a huge pillar." - Attack of the Clones Photo Comic

> "Seething, the Count ignited his lightsaber and charged. He attacked ferociously, but Yoda's superior command of the Force prevented Dooku from landing a single blow. Finally, the Count slowed. Then Yoda attacked. The small but powerful Jedi flew forward, his lightsaber a blur of light. Dooky did not stand a chance against his old Master's magnificent lightsaber skills." - Attack of the Clones Movie Storybook

> "The Count failed in his attempts to kill them, and fled Geonosis - but not before facing his former Master Yoda in a test of lightsabers. His loss to Yoda was of little consequence, for Dooku escaped to his true Master, Darth Sidious." - New Essential Guide to Characters

> "The Master's skills outstripped even those of Dooku and the Count was forced to flee with his life." - Fact Files

Further, the Attack of the Clones script, comic, junior novelization, and novelization all point to Yoda being significantly greater than Dooku in the Force. Yoda's vastly superior speed, established in all three of these sources, likewise cements the fact that Yoda is more powerful than Dooku. Click here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/count-dooku-vs-revan-and-lord-scourge-1718290/?page=1#js-message-15515738 to read the excerpts of these fights. The fact that the script, comic, and junior novelization feature earlier versions of the fight to the movie is irrelevant given they are still officially canonical.

SUMMARY: Overall, Yoda is a significantly more powerful Force-user and a vastly greater lightsaber combatant.

I sort of ran out of room on my final summary, but seriously: Yoda "easily" handled Dooku's biggest and baddest attacks. As per Force Collection, one can argue that Dooku even gathered his energies before unleashing the attack, suggesting a heightened level of power that wouldn't be possible if in the midst of combat. Unless you want to argue that both Dooku's telekinesis and Force lightning is not a representation or his abilities (what?), or that Yoda's tutaminis is particularly better compared to the rest of his powers (actually the other way around, given, as I mentioned, the ability in general is incredibly hard to perform), it's obvious that Yoda >>> Dooku. Not to mention Yoda gangraping Dooku in the lightsaber duel in well under a minute.

http://49.media.tumblr.com/89732615cddadd6cfb4aa5ad954b4eae/tumblr_ne6y613nxn1tzobkno2_250.gif

Good thread. Dooku is more or less equal to TCW Maul and solid tier below Sidious and Yoda in both dueling and Force power.

Yea you haven't debunked crap. Yoda may well not have utilized tk because he couldn't use it to the extent of lifitng or pinning or harmlessly incapping him and he didn't want to have to resort to blasts and pushes which
a. would be harmless
or
b. hurt him

We can conclude that while yoda is superior he isn't superior by wide enough of a margin to pull, pin, or take him out without hurting him whcih suggests dooku is beyond yoda's ability to outright dominate

Yoda being more powerful is obvious but doesn't mean dooku can't be relatively close to him

As for the sabers,part, yet again you've debunked nothing. Yoda can be>dooku without the two being comparable or dooku being able to hold his own/compete which like it or not, he did.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yea you haven't debunked crap. Yoda may well not have utilized tk because he couldn't use it to the extent of lifitng or pinning or harmlessly incapping him and he didn't want to have to resort to blasts and pushes which
a. would be harmless
or
b. hurt him

We can conclude that while yoda is superior he isn't superior by wide enough of a margin to pull, pin, or take him out without hurting him whcih suggests dooku is beyond yoda's ability to outright dominate

Yoda being more powerful is obvious but doesn't mean dooku can't be relatively close to him

As for the sabers,part, yet again you've debunked nothing. Yoda can be>dooku without the two being comparable or dooku being able to hold his own/compete which like it or not, he did.

So...you're just going to ignore all of the quotes Ant posted in favor of your own headcanon? And keep spamming the exact same responses regardless of what arguments are presented? While presenting no evidence to back up your claims? K then.

Originally posted by nfactor1995
So...you're just going to ignore all of the quotes Ant posted in favor of your own headcanon? And keep spamming the exact same responses regardless of what arguments are presented? While presenting no evidence to back up your claims? K then.

I'm not ignoring ant's quotes, they just don't prove what he's trying to argue.

Yoda being>Dooku doesn't mean dooku can't compete with yoda

Yoda defending vs dooku's attacks doens't mean he can easily overwhelm him

And Yoda not going on the offensive can easily be explained without the assumption that if yoda went on the offensive he would have stomped dooku.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yea you haven't debunked crap. Yoda may well not have utilized tk because he couldn't use it to the extent of lifitng or pinning or harmlessly incapping him and he didn't want to have to resort to blasts and pushes which
a. would be harmless
or
b. hurt him

We can conclude that while yoda is superior he isn't superior by wide enough of a margin to pull, pin, or take him out without hurting him whcih suggests dooku is beyond yoda's ability to outright dominate

That's quite the distinction you are blurring together.

Yes, Yoda cannot effortlessly subdue Dooku with the Force. No one really tried to argue otherwise, as far as I'm aware. However, Yoda is significantly superior to Dooku in the Force - so much so that he can easily handle anything Dooku dishes at him. The argument that Yoda's attacks would be harmless is debunked by Yoda's established superiority to Dooku in the Force.



It does considering Yoda easily absorbed Dooku's lightning and easily repelled Dooku's telekinetic attacks.

If Dooku was close to him, Yoda would have had difficulty in these situations.



Dooku held his own in the respect that he was not outright disarmed, but he was completely outclassed up to this breaking point.

Dooku posed absolutely no threat to Yoda, whereas Yoda could have perhaps killed Dooku if he was seeking to, which he was not.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yoda being>Dooku doesn't mean dooku can't compete with yoda

We know Dooku cannot compete with Yoda by looking at the ease Yoda repelled his attacks, both with the Force and a lightsaber.



Yoda already easily overwhelmed Dooku, canonically.



It's already stated that Dooku "didn't stand a chance" against Yoda in lightsaber combat. All he could do is avoid being disarmed, but if the fight continued longer, he would have been disarmed too.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Come on guys, seriously?

Myth #1: Yoda and Dooku are comparable in the Force.

So, this myth is derived from the Fact Files, Lightsabers, and the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia:







All of these quotes are misleading because they suggest that Yoda actively fought Dooku in a Force matchup. This is false. Yoda only unleashed one attack at Dooku's direction, and such attack was the power of Dooku redirected back at him. Thus, the second source is irrelevant given Yoda never actively tried to best Dooku with the Force. Further, the third source is actually inaccurate and therefore can be dismissed as such, since Yoda never directed any telekinetic assault at Dooku.

The first quote suggests no such thing. It merely says Yoda needed to resort to his weapon when fighting Dooku. This does not imply Yoda fought Dooku with the Force. Force sense is a thing, you know?

As for the thirs source, only the part about Yoda attempting to defeat Dooku with TK can be dismissed. A single false statement does not render the whole quote inaccurate.



There's nothing ambiguous about it. It praises Yoda's immense skill and power with the Force, and then states that despite this, he needed to resort to his lightsaber to best Dooku.

And your interpretation makes no sense. Firstly, you are relying on an argument from ignorance to debunk the quote, which doesn't work. Yoda - or any other Force user - doesn't have to unleash an attack to test their opponent's strength. Force sense exists, and has been used many times in the mythos.

Also, you inadvertently conceded Yoda is not powerful enough to ragdoll Dooku, by admitting that he'd have to fend him off unarmed, and that a lightsaber-wielding Dooku is a "substantial threat of death." If Yoda faces an armed Force user unarmed, he does this. If he was powerful enough to dominate Dooku, he would have done so. The quote agrees with me on this; it's that simple.



No, it cannot be attributed to that, since it is Dooku's lightning in question, and not any random dark side moron's, and it would make no sense for Yoda to have difficulty deflecting such bursts anyway, when his canonical inferiors don't.



The third quote is from Dooku's own POV and thus limited and overruled by the narrator's. The fourth and fifth quote only state the machinery was easy for Yoda to deflect, so no clue why you included those, unless you really thought people wouldn't notice that. And in the fifth quote, the word "easily" is only included in the machine part and omitted in the Lightning one, and instead is replaced with "even", inplying that while his deflection of Dooku's attack was an awe-inspiring display of his power, it was in fact not easy for him.

Only the first and second quotes support the notion of Yoda having an easy time with Dooku. But I'm not familiar with the sources. Are they Canon or Legends? What year were they released in?



No one is disputing the fact that Sidious and Yoda are Dooku's significant superiors, and in their own tier entirely. However, what I (and others) are disputing is that the gap is wide enough for a ragdoll, which, according to the quote, it isn't. I have no doubt in my mind that Sidious would stomp Dooku, since he has Lightning and TP among other things, which even Yoda has had great trouble with. Yoda, however, lacks these advantages, and his only power that can be used in combat is TK, and that is only effective if his target is weak enough to be ragdolled, which Dooku isn't. Thus, Yoda only being able to stalemate Dooku, yet being able to stand up to Darth Sidious, who in turn stomps Dooku, can all be reconciled.



That was obvious from the movie itself. Dooku doesn't land a single blow to Yoda and the latter effortlessly dodges his attempts to do so. No quote was needed to confirm that.



Nothing you've presented here renders the Fact File quote unusable, and it comes later than most sources here anyway (2013, 2014?). Even if Dooku was once presented as fodder to Yoda, the new quote represents an updated view of him, where he is indeed at least somewhat comparable.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's quite the distinction you are blurring together.

Yes, Yoda cannot effortlessly subdue Dooku with the Force. No one really tried to argue otherwise, as far as I'm aware. However, Yoda is significantly superior to Dooku in the Force - so much so that he can easily handle anything Dooku dishes at him. The argument that Yoda's attacks would be harmless is debunked by Yoda's established superiority to Dooku in the Force.



It does considering Yoda easily absorbed Dooku's lightning and easily repelled Dooku's telekinetic attacks.

If Dooku was close to him, Yoda would have had difficulty in these situations.



Dooku held his own in the respect that he was not outright disarmed, but he was completely outclassed up to this breaking point.

Dooku posed absolutely no threat to Yoda, whereas Yoda could have perhaps killed Dooku if he was seeking to, which he was not.

It's a good thing then that virtually no one's been trying to argue that then and that it's unnecessary to argue when regarding folks like valk who thanks to sclaing are canonically well below yoda even just in terms of force use.Originally posted by DarthAnt66
We know Dooku cannot compete with Yoda by looking at the ease Yoda repelled his attacks, both with the Force and a lightsaber.



Yoda already easily overwhelmed Dooku, canonically.



It's already stated that Dooku "didn't stand a chance" against Yoda in lightsaber combat. All he could do is avoid being disarmed, but if the fight continued longer, he would have been disarmed too.

One quote vs multiple quotes saying othewise. And so far that's the only thing you've preented which actually means anything here.. There are multiple quotes indicating a close fight. One of whihc comes after the quote you provided

Are you referring to the first quote or the third quote here?



If you want to go that avenue, Yoda failing to defeat Dooku with Force lightning is irrelevant since the Force lightning was Dooku's power, not Yoda's.

Thus, Yoda never used his own power in an attack against Dooku, so them being evenly matched is irrelevant.



For aforementioned reasons.



Given Dooku was completely unaware of Yoda's power despite Force sense, this argument would need support to hold any weight.



The idea that Yoda can effortlessly disarm Dooku with the Force in the same way he could against Asajj Ventress is obviously ridiclous.

Recognize that this doesn't mean Yoda isn't substantially more powerful than Dooku and could overpower him with the Force, since he can.



It seems you're missing the point.

By default, handling Force lightning is considered to be difficult.

The fact we're discussing Dooku's lightning only adds to the difficulty.

Thus, we can conclude the source is referring to the inherent difficulty in the ability + the additional strength handling it versus Dooku that the feat would demand.

Nevertheless, Yoda is still stated to have handled it "easily," cementing his status as significantly superior to Dooku in the Force.



Apparently not. Since Yoda being incapable of ragdolling Dooku doesn't give Dooku any special status or claim to fame. It just means Yoda isn't ridiculously above him in power.



False. There is no "updated view" considering the Fact Files don't fall under either the Legends or Canon continuity, and that retcon by age doesn't exist as an actual way to overrule continuity. As per Leland Chee, seeing which view is stated the most is a legitimate way to determine, and the majority of sources state Yoda was superior. Further, the Fact Files are inconsistent within themselves. It suggests Yoda and Dooku are rough equals, but then states that unlike the Yoda vs Dooku fight, Yoda is a rough equal to Palpatine. These differences can be attributed to various different authors writing these works. The source also states that Dooku barely escaped with his life in the confrontation against Yoda, which wouldn't be the case if he was comparable to Yoda, as far as I'm concerned.

Overall, while Yoda is unable to instantly disarm Dooku with a lightsaber or the Force, he is the significant-to-vast superior. Attributing any success to Dooku in his fight versus Yoda is ridiclous. Almost anyone high-ranking fighter can replicate what Dooku did considering the ambiguity behind how much power Yoda put behind anything he did, since the Fact Files reveal that Yoda had to fight with newfound strength against Palpatine, thus meaning he didn't fight with all his power against Dooku.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
One quote vs multiple quotes saying othewise. And so far that's the only thing you've preented which actually means anything here.. There are multiple quotes indicating a close fight. One of whihc comes after the quote you provided
As established in this thread, a majority of quotes establish Yoda was the vast superior. It is the minority that states it is close.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Are you referring to the first quote or the third quote here?



If you want to go that avenue, Yoda failing to defeat Dooku with Force lightning is irrelevant since the Force lightning was Dooku's power, not Yoda's.

Thus, Yoda never used his own power in an attack against Dooku, so them being evenly matched is irrelevant.



For aforementioned reasons.



Given Dooku was completely unaware of Yoda's power despite Force sense, this argument would need support to hold any weight.



The idea that Yoda can effortlessly disarm Dooku with the Force in the same way he could against Asajj Ventress is obviously ridiclous.

Recognize that this doesn't mean Yoda isn't substantially more powerful than Dooku and could overpower him with the Force, since he can.



It seems you're missing the point.

By default, handling Force lightning is considered to be difficult.

The fact we're discussing Dooku's lightning only adds to the difficulty.

Thus, we can conclude the source is referring to the inherent difficulty in the ability + the additional strength handling it versus Dooku that the feat would demand.

Nevertheless, Yoda is still stated to have handled it "easily," cementing his status as significantly superior to Dooku in the Force.



Apparently not. Since Yoda being incapable of ragdolling Dooku doesn't give Dooku any special status or claim to fame. It just means Yoda isn't ridiculously above him in power.



False. There is no "updated view" considering the Fact Files don't fall under either the Legends or Canon continuity, and that retcon by age doesn't exist as an actual way to overrule continuity. As per Leland Chee, seeing which view is stated the most is a legitimate way to determine, and the majority of sources state Yoda was superior. Further, the Fact Files are inconsistent within themselves. It suggests Yoda and Dooku are rough equals, but then states that unlike the Yoda vs Dooku fight, Yoda is a rough equal to Palpatine. These differences can be attributed to various different authors writing these works. The source also states that Dooku barely escaped with his life in the confrontation against Yoda, which wouldn't be the case if he was comparable to Yoda, as far as I'm concerned.

Overall, while Yoda is unable to instantly disarm Dooku with a lightsaber or the Force, he is the significant-to-vast superior. Attributing any success to Dooku in his fight versus Yoda is ridiclous. Almost anyone high-ranking fighter can replicate what Dooku did considering the ambiguity behind how much power Yoda put behind anything he did, since the Fact Files reveal that Yoda had to fight with newfound strength against Palpatine, thus meaning he didn't fight with all his power against Dooku.

Ant, using logic, we can infer that if yoda can't outright ragdoll dooku, neither can yoda's inferiors like say valk, or plagueis.

Unless off ocurse you actually are still willing to argue valk>yoda which is just as laughable as asserting yoda=dooku: a claim no one has made and you just needlessly made a blog about

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
As established in this thread one quote establishes Yoda was the vast superior. It is the minority that states it is close.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ant, using logic, we can infer that if yoda can't outright ragdoll dooku, neither can yoda's inferiors like say valk, or plagueis.

Unless off ocurse you actually are still willing to argue valk>yoda which is just as laughable as asserting yoda=dooku: a claim no one has made and you just needlessly made a blog about

Valkorion is more powerful than Yoda, yeah.

But Yoda being unable to ragdoll Dooku effortlessly doesn't mean he can't beat Dooku easily in the Force.

Nor does it mean that he can't down him in a couple attacks.

The likes Plagueis can still easily put Dooku down, just not without some sweat.

-

Wait, there are people who believe that Dooku=Yoda in either sabers or force?

Did these people just forget to watch the films or something?

Originally posted by ares834
Wait, there are people who believe that Dooku=Yoda in either sabers or force?

Did these people just forget to watch the films or something?
No one believes that, that didn't' stop ant from needlessly trying to disprove it

I find this is going to bite Ant in his ass one day. But meh

Anywho we could also take Dooku's words for value. I mean he is an arrogant sob so he probably would refer to himself as Yodas equal or something? /shrug

He's still top 15 msterial

The fact this has to be pointed out shows just how massively out of control PT wank has gotten. It's time for Operation Knightfall.

Why did you leave out the fact that Dooku wounded Yoda on Vjun?

Because that wasn't relevant to his fight on Geonosis, lmfao?

Originally posted by Unbowed
Good thread. Dooku is more or less equal to TCW Maul and solid tier below Sidious and Yoda in both dueling and Force power.

No. Dooku still rapes Maul. But yeah Yoda is Dooku's superior. Good thread.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
He's still top 15 msterial

As a duelist, or overall?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No. Dooku still rapes Maul. But yeah Yoda is Dooku's superior. Good thread.
Its too bad literally no has argued yoda isn't>dooku.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Its too bad literally no has argued yoda isn't>dooku.

Really? The word no has argued that Yoda isn't> Dooku. Tell me more.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Really? The word no has argued that Yoda isn't> Dooku. Tell me more.
The word yes makes better arguments tbh

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The word yes makes better arguments tbh

True, but the word no ends arguments.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
True, but the word no ends arguments.
Nein! is more effectively honestly

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
As a duelist, or overall?

Ehh. I have him at top fifteen overall. But He's interchangeable with a lot dark lords tbh

Although tbh i don't quite have a solid top ten list to even say that

Originally posted by Azronger
The first quote suggests no such thing. It merely says Yoda needed to resort to his weapon when fighting Dooku. This does not imply Yoda fought Dooku with the Force. Force sense is a thing, you know?

As for the thirs source, only the part about Yoda attempting to defeat Dooku with TK can be dismissed. A single false statement does not render the whole quote inaccurate.



There's nothing ambiguous about it. It praises Yoda's immense skill and power with the Force, and then states that despite this, he needed to resort to his lightsaber to best Dooku.

And your interpretation makes no sense. Firstly, you are relying on an argument from ignorance to debunk the quote, which doesn't work. Yoda - or any other Force user - doesn't have to unleash an attack to test their opponent's strength. Force sense exists, and has been used many times in the mythos.

Also, you inadvertently conceded Yoda is not powerful enough to ragdoll Dooku, by admitting that he'd have to fend him off unarmed, and that a lightsaber-wielding Dooku is a "substantial threat of death." If Yoda faces an armed Force user unarmed, he does this. If he was powerful enough to dominate Dooku, he would have done so. The quote agrees with me on this; it's that simple.



No, it cannot be attributed to that, since it is Dooku's lightning in question, and not any random dark side moron's, and it would make no sense for Yoda to have difficulty deflecting such bursts anyway, when his canonical inferiors don't.



The third quote is from Dooku's own POV and thus limited and overruled by the narrator's. The fourth and fifth quote only state the machinery was easy for Yoda to deflect, so no clue why you included those, unless you really thought people wouldn't notice that. And in the fifth quote, the word "easily" is only included in the machine part and omitted in the Lightning one, and instead is replaced with "even", inplying that while his deflection of Dooku's attack was an awe-inspiring display of his power, it was in fact not easy for him.

Only the first and second quotes support the notion of Yoda having an easy time with Dooku. But I'm not familiar with the sources. Are they Canon or Legends? What year were they released in?



No one is disputing the fact that Sidious and Yoda are Dooku's significant superiors, and in their own tier entirely. However, what I (and others) are disputing is that the gap is wide enough for a ragdoll, which, according to the quote, it isn't. I have no doubt in my mind that Sidious would stomp Dooku, since he has Lightning and TP among other things, which even Yoda has had great trouble with. Yoda, however, lacks these advantages, and his only power that can be used in combat is TK, and that is only effective if his target is weak enough to be ragdolled, which Dooku isn't. Thus, Yoda only being able to stalemate Dooku, yet being able to stand up to Darth Sidious, who in turn stomps Dooku, can all be reconciled.



That was obvious from the movie itself. Dooku doesn't land a single blow to Yoda and the latter effortlessly dodges his attempts to do so. No quote was needed to confirm that.



Nothing you've presented here renders the Fact File quote unusable, and it comes later than most sources here anyway (2013, 2014?). Even if Dooku was once presented as fodder to Yoda, the new quote represents an updated view of him, where he is indeed at least somewhat comparable.

nig why you quoting shit i already responded to lmfao

Nobody believed Dooku was comparable to Yoda, just that he's strong enough to not get dominated through the Force which is backed up by multiple sources.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Ehh. I have him at top fifteen overall. But He's interchangeable with a lot dark lords tbh

Although tbh i don't quite have a solid top ten list to even say that Above Kyp Durron at least, yeah.

Also pretty sure "new found strength" is just a fancy way of expressing determination

I have to ask ant, what myth exactly are you trying to debunk here?

Not really. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm216coffee1.gif



Doesn't really matter, since the fact that he didn't means it either wasn't within his ability or tendency to finish the fight that way. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm216coffee1.gif



Nope, the quote only specifies that the two fighters tried to defeat one another with the Force, and that the match included displays of telekinesis. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm216coffee1.gif



There's another quote that says it wasn't easy. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm216coffee1.gif



Dooku wasn't exactly doubling over in exhaustion either. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm216coffee1.gif



Or I could dismiss you instead. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm216coffee1.gif



And other sources say Sidious is better. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm216coffee1.gif



Not really. Yoda tried and failed to capture/kill Dooku twice. That alone opens the door for comparisons to be drawn between them, your objections aside. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm216coffee1.gif

Only the most powerful Jedi who ever lived can spank Dooku whenever he feels like it. Make way.

http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/img/6/1/2/2/0/MTS_Kaiburr-67975-Anakin2_actual.png

Originally posted by NewGuy01
the most powerful Jedi
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/img/6/1/2/2/0/MTS_Kaiburr-67975-Anakin2_actual.png

Can't argue there, TBH. There's cooler pics of Anakin to use though.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Doesn't really matter, since the fact that he didn't means it either wasn't within his ability or tendency to finish the fight that way.

For one, refer to my new thread on how telekinesis works in Canon. Yoda forcing Dooku into submission wouldn't really fit with the existing continuity.

More importantly, it wouldn't fit within the character of Yoda and would create a rather large gap between Dooku and Maul.



That's a streeetch.



There's more that says it was easy (aka my point).



Doesn't have to be.



Irrelevant.



Same with Ventress.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For one, refer to my new thread on how telekinesis works in Canon. Yoda forcing Dooku into submission wouldn't really fit with the existing continuity.

More importantly, it wouldn't fit within the character of Yoda and would create a rather large gap between Dooku and Maul.



That's a streeetch.



There's more that says it was easy (aka my point).



Doesn't have to be.



Irrelevant.



Same with Ventress.
Don't care

there is a sizable disparity between (tcw)maul and dooku, as their respective performances vs grievous, yoda/sidous, and off course Kenobi make incredibly obvious. people whoa rgue tcw maul isn't well below dooku are simply delusional.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For one, refer to my new thread on how telekinesis works in Canon. Yoda forcing Dooku into submission wouldn't really fit with the existing continuity.

More importantly, it wouldn't fit within the character of Yoda and would create a rather large gap between Dooku and Maul.



That's a streeetch.



There's more that says it was easy (aka my point).



Doesn't have to be.



Irrelevant.



Same with Ventress.

Nope, one quote isn't > multiple. You've provided a whopping total of one quote, a realtively old one at that, that says yoda beat dooku easily.

Defending an attack easily isn't the same as beating someone easily ant.


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For one, refer to my new thread on how telekinesis works in Canon. Yoda forcing Dooku into submission wouldn't really fit with the existing continuity.

More importantly, it wouldn't fit within the character of Yoda and would create a rather large gap between Dooku and Maul.



That's a streeetch.



There's more that says it was easy (aka my point).



Doesn't have to be.



Irrelevant.



Same with Ventress.

For what you're arguing yes he does.Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For one, refer to my new thread on how telekinesis works in Canon. Yoda forcing Dooku into submission wouldn't really fit with the existing continuity.

More importantly, it wouldn't fit within the character of Yoda and would create a rather large gap between Dooku and Maul.



That's a streeetch.



There's more that says it was easy (aka my point).



Doesn't have to be.



Irrelevant.



Same with Ventress.

Kinda like all this blog.

100% sure my post was directed at Sasukedc, kek.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
100% sure my post was directed at Sasukedc, kek.
100% sure I don't care

Respond to my post, Ant

Originally posted by Azronger
Respond to my post, Ant
he can't so he's just going to make a poll about it and make that his argument

Only if you can't read. Well, nevermind; I suppose we'll just go with it not being a stretch to assume the writers never saw Attack of the Clones.



It does for your point to be relevant. Yoda not struggling hardly implicates superiority if Dooku didn't either.



Thanks for providing the counter for your first point:



https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4313953-yoda+disarms+ventress+with+the+force.gif



http://egmnowbeta.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/18212710/star-wars-rebels-3-19-obi-wan-1.gif

...pfft.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
http://egmnowbeta.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/18212710/star-wars-rebels-3-19-obi-wan-1.gif

...pfft. You can do better, Sas.

It was a below the belt.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It was a below the belt.
Kenobi pierced maul below the neck actually

sneer

But seriously, why are you making a gif to a version of maul who has nothing tying himself to being dooku's inferior and his showing vs a version of kenobi who also has nothing tying himself to being dooku's inferiOR?

Here are some more fitting videos:
https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=59s (Maul "outmatches" an injured TCW Kenobi)
https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=1m6s (Maul "outmatches" an injured TCW Kenobi again)

https://youtu.be/OcXaicGvcvA?t=1m22s (Dooku actually outmatches season 6 Kenobi)
https://youtu.be/eYT3ctPuVRw?t=1m46s (Dooku actually outmatches a fresh ROTS Kenobi)

Clearly there's no gap between maul and dooku

Originally posted by |King Joker|
You can do better, Sas.

Irrelevant points don't deserve better counters. I offer no apology.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Irrelevant points don't deserve better counters. I offer no apology.

Regardless of anything ever said on this thread, everybody here goddamn knows Dooku is a tier below Yoda. Saying Dooku matches him or almost does is just plain ridiculous.

Who has ever said that Dooku matches him? We know he was outmatched and that he's an 8 where Yoda is a 9 per Gillard; that he was able to hold his own is a different matter and that is equally a fact.

I honestly don't remember who, but I've seen people on here say Dooku is nearing Yoda and their AotC confrontation proves this.

Still, I know the majority disagrees, so not a very useful thread.

Great. When's your "Debunking the Wolf Myth" thread coming out?

saying loosely comparable/beyond yoda's ability to dominate isn't falso and is based on fact. Tha
ts literally all that's been argued and hat this raising of dooku has ben based on.

I agree with your entire post, except this part. There is no such thing as a retarded opinion, only retarded arguments. Dooku > Valkorion, Dooku >>>>> Revan, Revan >>>>> Dooku, Malak >> Obi-Wan, Valkorion dying to everyone etc. are all perfectly valid stances to hold. Dismissing them as ridiculous or whatever seems extremely short-sighted to me, since nowhere is it factually stated that these are not true, except maybe in one's own head.

If you wish to debate me on some of these, then I am more than willing, although you don't have to if you're retired.

This. 100x this. @Sunrazer

Swing and a miss from Azronger as usual.

Idk what to say about the Lightsaber duelling part, but I agree with the Force duel part.

Even StarWars.Com states that Yoda easily handled Dooku's Lightning attacks:

^

That's Canon, not Legends

up

Ant did a complete 180 on this and now supports Yooku scaling.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=16350151#post16350151

biggest ABC on this whole thing is that Yoda is equal to Sidious and Dooku is SCARED of Sidious; Palpatine choked this dude out no problem from across the galaxy

APTC Yoda isn't = ROTS Yoda

I wait from Darth Ant 66 a Sidious Disrespect Thread

Shame that Ant loves Sidious

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Shame that Ant loves Sidious

It doesn't seem so as he holds Valkorion in greater esteeme than Palps.

He can love Sidious regardless lol

And pretty sure he has Sidious >/= Valk.