AotC Anakin > AotC Obi-Wan - Nick Gillard

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DarthAnt66
"Of course, he's the chosen one," whispered Gillard. "The audience will want to see that manifest itself. There needs to be flashes of brilliance. He's more skilled than Obi-Wan. Anakin always attacks. He's better and he knows it, which means he's brash on occasion."

http://web.archive.org/web/20050227222324/http://www.starwars.com:80/episode-ii/bts/production/news20000711b.html

This might be obvious to some, but neat to get confirmation.

S W LeGenD
Confirmation of what? Nick Gillard's opinion/interpretation? This by no means confirms it as a canon fact.

DarthAnt66
Published on the official starwars.com website? Unless there's some direct contradiction, seems pretty solid to me.

S W LeGenD
But the official website doesn't simply act as a chronicle of canon information; it serves many purposes, many of those purposes having nothing to do with canon facts whatsoever. This is just a behind the scenes article from a quick look at it, and Nick Gillard, being the stunt coordinator of the films, is not a canon authority.

DarthAnt66
Most members here take what Gillard has to say completely seriously, given his immeasurable involvement in the creation of everyone's fighting capabilities. thumb up

S W LeGenD
Those things aren't canon either lol.

DarthAnt66
What, the tier systems? Obviously not, but we still go by them. thumb up

The Merchant
Anakin did better against Dooku than Obi-wan, should have been clear he is superior.

S W LeGenD
This forum goes by many things no matter how legitimate they are it seems.

NewGuy01
George is the one that came up with the level system, not Gillard.

nfactor1995
Was it ever disputed that AOTC Anakin>AOTC Obi-Wan? What's even the case for Obi-Wan being superior?

NewGuy01
Not countering lightning with a headbutt, maybe.

cs_zoltan
Kenobi is said to be more powerful by Ventress. Which this quote doesn't contradict.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by nfactor1995
Was it ever disputed that AOTC Anakin>AOTC Obi-Wan? What's even the case for Obi-Wan being superior?

-Kenobi vastly outperforming and being noted as superior to Anakin by Ventress in the tcw movie when Anakin was a knight
-Kenobi stalemating Anakin both telekinetically and via the blade 5 months before rots in obsession
-Kenobi beating an enraged season 4 anakin in h2h
-Kenobi stalemating a hindered knightfall anakin while himself partially hindered and then stalemating a partially hindered knightfall anakin when unhindered

If Anakin has surpassed Kenobi as a padawan, then given his vastly superior potential, none of the above makes much sense.

That being said iirc gillard said somewhere else that while kenobi had moved up one tier from aotc(menaing he was a 7 back then), anakin has moved up 4 tiers from aotc which would put aotc anakin as a 5, and aotc kenobi as a 7.

Rockydonovang
hmm.
Looking at the interview, "mace windu's fighting abilities are second only to yoda", would that apply to dooku as well? He did do the swordfigthing for dooku to.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
If Anakin has surpassed Kenobi as a padawan, then given his vastly superior potential, none of the above makes much sense.

That being said iirc gillard said somewhere else that while kenobi had moved up one tier from aotc(menaing he was a 7 back then), anakin has moved up 4 tiers from aotc which would put aotc anakin as a 5, and aotc kenobi as a 7.
Nah, you've compared two different level systems. The one where Anakin moved up four was before he had the ten-tiers down.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Kenobi is said to be more powerful by Ventress. Which this quote doesn't contradict.


Where?



Originally posted by Rockydonovang
-Kenobi vastly outperforming and being noted as superior to Anakin by Ventress in the tcw movie when Anakin was a knight



TCW Movie? That was never mentioned.



Originally posted by S W LeGenD
Those things aren't canon either lol.


The levels are not necessarily canon, but they are the closest we get to Lucas's power ranking for the films.

Gillard didn't just make up the power levels himself lol

NewGuy01
Regardless of what Ventress may or may not have said, Anakin fared much better against Dooku in the movie than she did in S3...

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Where?

TCWM junior novel. Nova has the quote.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Regardless of what Ventress may or may not have said, Anakin fared much better against Dooku in the movie than she did in S3...
Ventress also beat him in the movie despite losing to him when anakin was a padawan

Ursumeles
-- TCW Junior Novelization

Credit to Nova.

DarthAnt66
That's many months after AotC.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ventress also beat him in the movie despite losing to him when anakin was a padawan


Not canon.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's many months after AotC.

Isn't the TCW movie like 7 weeks after AotC? Besides if anyone is gona grow faster it's Anakin so that'd make AotC Kenobi even further above AotC Anakin.

DarthAnt66
As per the novel, but that's just wrong. Volume 1 of OCW and numerous other comics take place before TCW, which span multiple months. I imagine some sourcebooks correctly list TCW's start-time, thus retconing it anyway.

The film has Ventress and Anakin knowing each other and Dooku remarking how Anakin's skills have "came a long way, further reinforcing the time gap. Plus they look significantly different than in AotC.

Greysentinel365
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not canon.

It is. It was cut around. Not out. The Official Visual Guide and Junior Novel include the fight.

Furthermore, in the movie commentary, Filoni states that the fight was leftover from when the movie was the first 4 episodes but didn't work in the movie. So they cut away from it.

He's actually embarrassed by it. Because there's a random shot in the movie of Ventress walking up and asking for a status while two Droidekas roll up. That's her coming out of the pit. So yeah. Still happened, they just cut away from it for pacing reasons.

DarthAnt66
Neither of those sources are Canon. ^

Greysentinel365
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
As per the novel, but that's just wrong. Volume 1 of OCW and numerous other comics take place before TCW, which span multiple months. I imagine some sourcebooks correctly list TCW's start-time, thus retconing it anyway.

The film has Ventress and Anakin knowing each other and Dooku remarking how Anakin's skills have "came a long way, further reinforcing the time gap. Plus they look significantly different than in AotC.

In Legends TCW starts 6 months into the war as per the 2012 Readers Companion. With everything up to Dreadnoughts of Rendili being compressed backwards to fit. The TCW Visual Guide for season 1 confirms Ventress had fought Anakin and Obi-Wan multiple times before the movie.

In canon it's outright 4 weeks after Geonosis.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Isn't the TCW movie like 7 weeks after AotC? Besides if anyone is gona grow faster it's Anakin so that'd make AotC Kenobi even further above AotC Anakin.
(Second part) Eh, not necessarily. Anakin's growth seemed to be many random, rapid jumps, rather than a nice constant upward slope.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Greysentinel365
In Legends TCW starts 6 months into the war as per the 2012 Readers Companion. With everything up to Dreadnoughts of Rendili being compressed backwards to fit. The TCW Visual Guide for season 1 confirms Ventress had fought Anakin and Obi-Wan multiple times before the movie.

In canon it's outright 4 weeks after Geonosis.
Junior novel isn't canon. Not even the adult novel is.

S W LeGenD
Originally posted by Darth Thor
The levels are not necessarily canon, but they are the closest we get to Lucas's power ranking for the films.

Gillard didn't just make up the power levels himself lol

I'm no longer all that familiar with what all this power level stuff is about so I won't comment much on that exactly.

But would it even matter if they were the closest we get to Lucas's ranking, when we in fact don't really need Lucas's ranking in the first place, and either way however close they come they certainly don't come close enough?

And of course I don't think Nick Gillard's pulling all of these ideas out of thin air; his job is to communicate George Lucas's vision after all, and I'd imagine most of his claims are a combination of stuff that has been communicated to him and his attempt at making further sense out of it. Doesn't change the fact that he isn't an authority on canon and can't definitively be recognised as communicating canon facts or as a mouthpiece for GL.

As for whether he's an authority on some of the action we see on screen, obviously he is. But that doesn't really mean anything given that it only makes sense that the stuff we see on screen is merely a depiction of what actually happens in canon, as opposed to what actually happens in canon, exactly as it happens in itself (for various reasons, such as limitations of the medium). Inferences one might draw from the technical aspects of the action that we see on screen are thus not really sound inferences at all, as they don't reflect canon exactly as it happened and don't necessarily reflect the vision of GL or any other canon authority.

So I really don't see why anyone would take Nick Gillard's comments seriously at all.

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