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Who wins

Tough call. SS is slower than Sif so she's gonna be landing more hits, but her weapons aren't piercing adamantium. Her physical blows are gonna have much more effect, but its difficult to say how much, since Logan's physical blows had zero effect and the armor took those falls pretty nicely, but there's that she'sstronger than Logan. Since she's stronger than Logan, she could pull the armor apart at the joints like he did, but that's gonna place her closer to the adamantium sword and without the SS incapacitated like he was when that happened, I don't see her getting that close.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Tough call. SS is slower than Sif so she's gonna be landing more hits, but her weapons aren't piercing adamantium. Her physical blows are gonna have much more effect, but its difficult to say how much, since Logan's physical blows had zero effect and the armor took those falls pretty nicely, but there's that she'sstronger than Logan. Since she's stronger than Logan, she could pull the armor apart at the joints like he did, but that's gonna place her closer to the adamantium sword and without the SS incapacitated like he was when that happened, I don't see her getting that close.

Technically, there's no proof that her sword won't penetrate adamantium. Adamantium is considered the toughest metal ON EARTH, and we know that Asgardians are pretty much immune to Earth steel weapons so it follows that their own steel is much tougher.

I missed her AoS episode, did she have any relevant strength feats? I feel like she should be stronger than Logan but I can't remember her doing much in the movies.

quUjNQ1QO-E

Originally posted by FrothByte
Technically, there's no proof that her sword won't penetrate adamantium. Adamantium is considered the toughest metal ON EARTH, and we know that Asgardians are pretty much immune to Earth steel weapons so it follows that their own steel is much tougher.

facepalm

Kill yourself.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
facepalm

Kill yourself.

Let me put it this way:

We've seen thugs with katanas block Wolverine's claws. We've also seen a random Asgardian farmer casually crumple a tactical.knife in his hand. In terms of composition, a modern tactical knife is tougher than a katana. For Asgardian weapons to be effective against Asgardians they would need to be way more durable than a human tactical knife, which would make them them a lot more durable than a katana which was able to block Wolverine's claws without breaking.

It's also not just asgardian weapon but the fact that Sif is a lot stronger than Wolverine.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Let me put it this way:

We've seen thugs with katanas block Wolverine's claws. We've also seen a random Asgardian farmer casually crumple a tactical.knife in his hand. In terms of composition, a modern tactical knife is tougher than a katana. For Asgardian weapons to be effective against Asgardians they would need to be way more durable than a human tactical knife, which would make them them a lot more durable than a katana which was able to block Wolverine's claws without breaking.

It's also not just asgardian weapon but the fact that Sif is a lot stronger than Wolverine.
Lol wut?

What part are you having trouble understanding?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Technically, there's no proof that her sword won't penetrate adamantium. Adamantium is considered the toughest metal ON EARTH, and we know that Asgardians are pretty much immune to Earth steel weapons so it follows that their own steel is much tougher. Originally posted by FrothByte
Let me put it this way:

We've seen thugs with katanas block Wolverine's claws. We've also seen a random Asgardian farmer casually crumple a tactical.knife in his hand. In terms of composition, a modern tactical knife is tougher than a katana. For Asgardian weapons to be effective against Asgardians they would need to be way more durable than a human tactical knife, which would make them them a lot more durable than a katana which was able to block Wolverine's claws without breaking.

It's also not just asgardian weapon but the fact that Sif is a lot stronger than Wolverine.
WTF?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What part are you having trouble understanding?

(Warning, incoming wall of text)

Its not that his post is hard to understand rather his logic has more holes than Swiss cheese. Or more like there's less logic and more nonsense in his post.

Firstly Froth makes the ridiculous, if not moronic assumption that Asgardian metal might pierce Adamantium since its tougher than Earth steel and Adamantium is the toughest metal known on earth, forgetting that adamantium is leagues above steel in pretty much every category and the fact adamantium exists in a different universe earth.

Then he brings up Sif being stronger than Wolverine, which is absolutely moot since Wolverine, or anyone for that matter, even those with similar strength or stronger than Wolverine like Lady Deathstrike, X-24, Barakapool, and of course, Silver Samurai, hasn't cut through adamantium even with Adamantium weapons without the heating plot device.

Thirdly, he uses an example of something not being cut by Wolverine's claws to support the argument of Asgardian metal being able to cut through adamantium, when the former is cutting power while the latter is durability. They have almost no relation.

Fourthly, he once again makes the claim of Shingen being just fodder. No, he doesn't even say its him, he simply claims that its fodder that blocked Wolverine's claws with a katana. While completely ignoring that Wolverine eventually cut through them anyway. Or that earlier in the movie, when Wolverine was not at full power, this fodder guy used knife which sliced a ten feet long hole in the roof of a train yet Logan cut through that knife easily. Or that Mario, who can cut through chains, a motor or a metal stool's leg and a beer bottle in one swing failed to cut through that sword. Or that the guy wielding that sword, Shingen, has casually beat fodder himself, and has beaten Mariko, who herself has steamrolled large numbers of fodder and went toe-to-toe and even beaten Viper, who has shown low-level super strength. Or that Shingen survived getting stabbed by Viper in the jugular by a fountain pen tainted with her poison, the same poison which insta-killed normal people and even nearly killed Harada (whose no fodder either) when it made contact with a cut on his skin before Viper used the anti-venom on him. A normal person can't survive either yet he survived the combination that alone should tell how tough and above fodder he is.

Fifthly, if he wants to compare cutting power, there are many better instances of Logan's claws cutting through things much tougher than either a katana or a tactical knife, and Logan himself has shown the strength to break metal, yet he continues to insist on using that one lone showing to lowball.

(End wall of text)

TL;DR - Froth's post is just dumb, uses faulty logic, nitpicking and double standards.

And that's for now

1) Has movie adamantium ever withstood Asgardian level metal being wielded by someone of Sif's strength and if not, What is wrong with pointing out that Asgardian metal might be able to pierce movie adamantium?

2) Are you claiming that strength plays zero part in being able to cut through things? if not, why is Sif's strength moot?

3) Actually he just brought it up to show Asgardian metal is stronger than a metal that has successfully blocked adamantium, at no point did he say that was proof it would cut/pierce adamantium

4) Are you saying that Shingen was the only one to block Wolverine's claws with a katana in the movie?

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
(Warning, incoming wall of text)

Its not that his post is hard to understand rather his logic has more holes than Swiss cheese. Or more like there's less logic and more nonsense in his post.

Firstly Froth makes the ridiculous, if not moronic assumption that Asgardian metal might pierce Adamantium since its tougher than Earth steel and Adamantium is the toughest metal known on earth, forgetting that adamantium is leagues above steel in pretty much every category and the fact adamantium exists in a different universe earth.

Then he brings up Sif being stronger than Wolverine, which is absolutely moot since Wolverine, or anyone for that matter, even those with similar strength or stronger than Wolverine like Lady Deathstrike, X-24, Barakapool, and of course, Silver Samurai, hasn't cut through adamantium even with Adamantium weapons without the heating plot device.

Thirdly, he uses an example of something not being cut by Wolverine's claws to support the argument of Asgardian metal being able to cut through adamantium, when the former is cutting power while the latter is durability. They have almost no relation.

Fourthly, he once again makes the claim of Shingen being just fodder. No, he doesn't even say its him, he simply claims that its fodder that blocked Wolverine's claws with a katana. While completely ignoring that Wolverine eventually cut through them anyway. Or that earlier in the movie, when Wolverine was not at full power, this fodder guy used knife which sliced a ten feet long hole in the roof of a train yet Logan cut through that knife easily. Or that Mario, who can cut through chains, a motor or a metal stool's leg and a beer bottle in one swing failed to cut through that sword. Or that the guy wielding that sword, Shingen, has casually beat fodder himself, and has beaten Mariko, who herself has steamrolled large numbers of fodder and went toe-to-toe and even beaten Viper, who has shown low-level super strength. Or that Shingen survived getting stabbed by Viper in the jugular by a fountain pen tainted with her poison, the same poison which insta-killed normal people and even nearly killed Harada (whose no fodder either) when it made contact with a cut on his skin before Viper used the anti-venom on him. A normal person can't survive either yet he survived the combination that alone should tell how tough and above fodder he is.

Fifthly, if he wants to compare cutting power, there are many better instances of Logan's claws cutting through things much tougher than either a katana or a tactical knife, and Logan himself has shown the strength to break metal, yet he continues to insist on using that one lone showing to lowball.

(End wall of text)

TL;DR - Froth's post is just dumb, uses faulty logic, nitpicking and double standards.

And that's for now


While I can respect the fact that you disagree with my points, your insults are completely unwarranted. Nothing in my post was even remotely insulting or aggressive. You might want to take your tone down a notch.

As for your points:

1. You forget that comicbooks have no bearing here, we base our facts purely on the movies. Movieverse adamantium has never had to go up against Asgardian steel or anything as tough as Asgardian steel. Asgardian steel is proven to be much more durable and effective than any steel known to man, heck Asgardians have a time traveling device proving how far advanced they are. To think that Adamantium can automatically cut through Asgardian steel or rebuff Asgardian steel is a no limits fallacy.

2. Are you saying strength isn't a factor when it comes to cutting or piercing with a weapon? Because that's just stupid.

3. The examples I used were simply there to illustrate the fact that 1. Adamantium can't easily conquer earthly metals and that 2. Asgardian metal is far superior to Earthly steel.

4. Shingen wasn't the only one blocking Wolverine's claws with a katana.

Purely conjecture and speculation, but don't see why as guardian metals could not be equal or close to adamantium. Mjolnir was forged in the heart of a dying star, as Odin said. That doesn't mean everything is as impressive as the hammer, but being forged in the middle of a dying star seems a heck of a lot more advanced than metal from a meteor hitting earth, even if that metal is not found natively on earth. They have obviously had access to everything in the entire nine realmsfor millennia. Their own physiology is many times stronger and more durable than humans, so their own weapons and armor's would have to be considerably stronger than our normal metals, one would think. Purely speculation.

Moore speculation: The adamantium had to be melted from its raw unprocessed form, so the original unprocessed form probably had a lower melting point then the finished hardened form, but wolverines claws were cut with very high heat, they were probably weakened by a high heat, just like any metal. It might make sense that Thors Hammer could've been molded in the great heat of a dying star, to make the metal malleable or meltable or whatever.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Technically, there's no proof that her sword won't penetrate adamantium. Adamantium is considered the toughest metal ON EARTH, and we know that Asgardians are pretty much immune to Earth steel weapons so it follows that their own steel is much tougher.

Adamentium didn't come from earth, it came from an astroid from space. Its not an earthy metal whatsoever.

Originally posted by Sable
Adamentium didn't come from earth, it came from an astroid from space. Its not an earthy metal whatsoever.

I never said adamantium came from Earth.

You implied as much when you said "we know Asgardians are immune to earth metal" and that "Adametium is the strongest metal on earth."

In any case is adamentium has better cutting feats then any Asgradian weapon as well as any durability showings. It withstood disintegration from Phoenix force, one of the most powerful forces in the universe.

I implied nothing. Simply that Adamantium was the strongest metal known to man but that the kind of steel mankind had to compare it to was far inferior to what the Asgardians have.

To clarify, I'm not saying Asgardian steel is better than Adamantium. I'm saying there's no guarantee that adamantium can rebuff Asgardian steel. To assume as much would be a no limits fallacy.

It's a no limits fallacy to assume a metal with no such cutting or durability feats can thwart a metal that has much better cutting and durability feats as I mentioned.

So adamantium has cut through someone as durable as Thor?

Originally posted by FrothByte
So adamantium has cut through someone as durable as Thor?

It cut through other Adamentium. Which is more durable then Thor.

Originally posted by Sable
It cut through other Adamentium. Which is more durable then Thor.

And your proof of that is?

Where is your proof Thors skin is more Durable then Adamentium that survived the Phoenix Force.

You mean when Jean was massively holding back against Logan?

Originally posted by Sable
Where is your proof Thors skin is more Durable then Adamentium that survived the Phoenix Force.

None. I never said that Asgardians or Asgardian steel is tougher than Adamantium. My claim was that it's also foolish to assume that adamantium is tougher than Asgardian or Asgardian steel.

As far as I'm concerned, until such time that clear proof is given, adamantium and Asgardian steel are roughly equal since they're both tougher than any current steel man has.

But now since you made the claim that Adamantium is tougher than Thor then it's up to you to prove that stance.

Originally posted by FrothByte
None. I never said that Asgardians or Asgardian steel is tougher than Adamantium. My claim was that it's also foolish to assume that adamantium is tougher than Asgardian or Asgardian steel.

As far as I'm concerned, until such time that clear proof is given, adamantium and Asgardian steel are roughly equal since they're both tougher than any current steel man has.

But now since you made the claim that Adamantium is tougher than Thor then it's up to you to prove that stance.



No you made a false equivalence that "earth metal" has no effect on Asgradians. And tried to imply Adamentium was an earth metal.

You debate cowardly, you claim something, someone disagrees then You say it's on them to prove you wrong. I have asked you many times, who made you the authority on feats around here

Originally posted by Sable
No you made a false equivalence that "earth metal" has no effect on Asgradians. And tried to imply Adamentium was an earth metal.

You debate cowardly, you claim something, someone disagrees then You say it's on them to prove you wrong. I have asked you many times, who made you the authority on feats around here

On the contrary, I claim something and stand by what I said. When someone convinces me that I was mistaken, I acknowledge and admit it, as others on this site can attest to. But when someone lies about what I said then is it any surprise that I'd speak out and correct them?

You have a habit of misunderstanding what I say, twisting my words to backup your arguments, probably because you know you can't out-debate me in an honest conversation.

Numerous times I have clarified what I meant so that we could resolve a misunderstanding. All those times you put blinders on and refuse to acknowledge my clarification, insisting on your own version of my statements.

As for the authority on feats, you seem to be new here so let me educate you: Around here feats is gold. We debate using feats, not simple opinions and hurled threats... although you'll see those too.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You mean when Jean was massively holding back against Logan?

So jeans disintegration can be throttled? She can either chose to fully disintegrate the island area, buildings and people, but at the same time, throttle her disintegration level do you have proof of that?

Originally posted by FrothByte
On the contrary, I claim something and stand by what I said. When someone convinces me that I was mistaken, I acknowledge and admit it, as others on this site can attest to. But when someone lies about what I said then is it any surprise that I'd speak out and correct them?

You have a habit of misunderstanding what I say, twisting my words to backup your arguments, probably because you know you can't out-debate me in an honest conversation.

Your inability to make a legitimate argument doesn't reflect on my debating ability. You literally said "if I punch you on a plane, does that mean I'm moving at super speed." You have been proven wrong at every level by multiple people. Some have even left the thread because of your ignorance on the subject material.

Originally posted by Sable
Some have even left the thread because of your ignorance on the subject material.

Troll much?

Originally posted by FrothByte
On the contrary, I claim something and stand by what I said. When someone convinces me that I was mistaken, I acknowledge and admit it, as others on this site can attest to. But when someone lies about what I said then is it any surprise that I'd speak out and correct them?

You have a habit of misunderstanding what I say, twisting my words to backup your arguments, probably because you know you can't out-debate me in an honest conversation.

Numerous times I have clarified what I meant so that we could resolve a misunderstanding. All those times you put blinders on and refuse to acknowledge my clarification, insisting on your own version of my statements.

As for the authority on feats, you seem to be new here so let me educate you: Around here feats is gold. We debate using feats, not simple opinions and hurled threats... although you'll see those too.

What feats have I used that were not feats, it's your opinions as such that Superman and Zod were not trading complex blows at super speed. That's your opinion, screen feats prove otherwise. You interjected your opinion on what you consider super speed and what you don't. So again, who made you the authority on what is and isn't?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Troll much?

I stated facts, Philosophia left. Ignorance is choosing to ignore evidence presented.

Originally posted by Sable
So jeans disintegration can be throttled? She can either chose to fully disintegrate the island area, buildings and people, but at the same time, throttle her disintegration level do you have proof of that?

You might try watching the movie.

I did, maybe 50 times, I would suggest you do the same. You are assuming because at the very end she said "kill me" that means the entire time she was "holding back" when you can clearly see her intensity her power on him before he makes it all the way.

Try again, this time have your eyes opened.

She clearly intensified her power on him as he was getting closer, then when he got all the way to her, Jean was able to break through the Phoenix mindset and ask him to kill her. Proof is in the pudding. You can clearly see her focusing and struggling to kill him. Jean doesn't break through until the very end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on8AOld0HlI

If you can't see whats going on, I question your ability to understand the concept. But go ahead, prove me wrong in what I said.

Based on feats and implied statements: 1. Mjolnir 2. Adamantium 3. Asgardian metals 4. Earth metals

And staying off topic--Phoenix was disintegrating large amounts of metal and superhuman mutants at a staggering rate, and Wolverine's tissues are damaged about as easily as a tough human. He would have been totally reduced to bare dead adamantium if Jean wasn't fighting against the Phoenix every bit of the way on the attack against him. Colossus and Juggernaut would been disintegrated, Sentinels would have been disintegrated, etc.

Originally posted by K-Dog
Based on feats and implied statements: 1. Mjolnir 2. Adamantium 3. Asgardian metals 4. Earth metals

And staying off topic--Phoenix was disintegrating large amounts of metal and superhuman mutants at a staggering rate, and Wolverine's tissues are damaged about as easily as a tough human. He would have been totally reduced to bare dead adamantium if Jean wasn't fighting against the Phoenix every bit of the way on the attack against him. Colossus and Juggernaut would been disintegrated, Sentinels would have been disintegrated, etc.

Originally posted by K-Dog
Based on feats and implied statements: 1. Mjolnir 2. Adamantium 3. Asgardian metals 4. Earth metals

And staying off topic--Phoenix was disintegrating large amounts of metal and superhuman mutants at a staggering rate, and Wolverine's tissues are damaged about as easily as a tough human. He would have been totally reduced to bare dead adamantium if Jean wasn't fighting against the Phoenix every bit of the way on the attack against him. Colossus and Juggernaut would been disintegrated, Sentinels would have been disintegrated, etc.

Good enough for government work, case closed, Adamentium is stronger then Asgardian metals

As regard to the rest, Logan is much tougher then average humans, as shown in the last movie where his healing factor isn't working and can still take bullets and massive amounts of damage and keep going for long periods of time.

When his healing factor is working, his regeneration is close to instant. All of that combined with this skeleton is why he is basically un killable..

You're confusing damage soak with durability, Logan takes damage just like any other human, he can just withstand the pain enough to keep going longer than most.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're confusing damage soak with durability, Logan takes damage just like any other human, he can just withstand the pain enough to keep going longer than most.

Come up with another label or classification all you want, He is is tougher then any regular human without his regen.

He can and has been injured just as easily as any normal human, thus K-dog's point stands.

His regen is basically instant when its working, since she couldn't disentigrate his bones, and bone marrow, his marrow btw which have been pointed out as the source of his power (the Wolverine), his body was able to instantly heal.

Anyways, like I said and k-dog, Adamentium is stronger then Asgardian metal.

Movie Wolverine's regen isn't instant, it's not even close.

It was as close to instant in that scene as its ever been. It was coming back immediately, no delay.

Originally posted by Sable
It was as close to instant in that scene as its ever been. It was coming back immediately, no delay.

No, it wasn't.

Yes, it was. You just got no sold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on8AOld0HlI

Thank you for proving that his regen isn't close to instant.

Actually those feats prove it is. She hit him hard and he completely regenerated instantly.

All it proves is that you don't know what instant means.

Besides that fact his flesh in numerous scenes came instantly back.

I get it, you don't know what instant means.

I get it, you dont understand what you are seeing.

I'm seeing someone that doesn't understand what instant means.

I see you like to snipe any word you can. A quick search reveals your animus against Logan and Superman.

Now I see someone that can't argue the points, so he attacks the person making them.

How did I attack You?

I noticed you only ask questions, you never answer them.

Originally posted by Sable
I noticed you only ask questions, you never answer them.

I noticed that you're incredibly biased and not interested in having real debates.

Odd, I noticed the same about you. You word all your questions and answers with a tone of attitude.

Wow, a "no you' response. how original.

More attitude

Zzzzzz

Yawn.

Copying me, how original.

More attitude?

Repeating yourself, another original tactic.

Yet you are doing the same.

I am sensing you are bored, at work, or have no life, which is it?

cat

You seem triggered.

doh

Yup

chinese

Got some more emojis baby man?

Originally posted by Sable
crybaby

Must be 12 years old

Originally posted by Sable
bawling

Originally posted by FrothByte
While I can respect the fact that you disagree with my points, your insults are completely unwarranted. Nothing in my post was even remotely insulting or aggressive. You might want to take your tone down a notch.
Sorry about that. I was having a rough day then. I wasn't directing those insults at you, rather at your post. You're better than that.

Originally posted by Silent Master
2) Are you claiming that strength plays zero part in being able to cut through things? If not, why is Sif's strength moot?
Originally posted by FrothByte
2. Are you saying strength isn't a factor when it comes to cutting or piercing with a weapon? Because that's just stupid.
I wasn't saying strength isn't a factor. I was arguing that Sif being stronger than Wolverine is a moot point since characters stronger than him couldn't cut adamantium and thus if someone wants to argue about someone cutting adamantium, comparison to Wolverine's strength is redundant unless they are weaker.

Originally posted by Silent Master
3) Actually he just brought it up to show Asgardian metal is stronger than a metal that has successfully blocked adamantium, at no point did he say that was proof it would cut/pierce adamantium Originally posted by FrothByte
3. The examples I used were simply there to illustrate the fact that 1. Adamantium can't easily conquer earthly metals and that 2. Asgardian metal is far superior to Earthly steel.
Fair enough. Though I also pointed out that Adamantium has cut through tougher objects as well.

Originally posted by Silent Master
4) Are you saying that Shingen was the only one to block Wolverine's claws with a katana in the movie?
Originally posted by FrothByte
4. Shingen wasn't the only one blocking Wolverine's claws with a katana.
If there was I hadn't noticed it, sorry. Could be kind enough to post those incidents? I am not in the mood to scour through movies I've already seen.

Originally posted by Silent Master
1) Has movie adamantium ever withstood Asgardian level metal being wielded by someone of Sif's strength and if not, What is wrong with pointing out that Asgardian metal might be able to pierce movie adamantium?
In reverse, has Asgardian metal pierced any metal with durability feats as Adamantium?

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. You forget that comicbooks have no bearing here, we base our facts purely on the movies. Movieverse adamantium has never had to go up against Asgardian steel or anything as tough as Asgardian steel. Asgardian steel is proven to be much more durable and effective than any steel known to man, heck Asgardians have a time traveling device proving how far advanced they are. To think that Adamantium can automatically cut through Asgardian steel or rebuff Asgardian steel is a no limits fallacy.
Two things:
One, I've never referenced comics in my post. In fact, it wouldn't even be an argument if we are comparing comic versions of the respective metals. Comic adamantium shits all over pretty much all comic godly metals unless they are enchanted .
Two, I did not claim that adamantium cuts through Asgard metal.
And Asgardian steel never had to face anything as tough as movie adamantium either. It works in both ways.
And similarly, its nothing but a reaching extrapolation to think Asgardian metal can automatically damage adamantium just because its tougher than Earth metals.

On a side note, why do I get the feeling Silent's and Sable's argument consists of things not related to this thread, and in fact, not related to versus at all.

Sable is a sock account whose only purpose is to troll until they finally get banned for the 1,000th time.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Sable is a sock account whose only purpose is to troll until they finally get banned for the 1,000th time.
And your fattening up that troll.

Until the mods get around to banning him, it keeps his focus on only a couple of threads, leaving the rest of the forum free.

But you only post in a couple of threads as well, so does that leave the rest of the forum free from you as well?