Superboy Prime replaces Doomsday in DOS

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backup
All right, what if this guy:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2poe2z5.jpg

Replaces Doomsday in DOS and fight with bloodlusted Superman?

Note: This is Superboy Prime during SCW.

Who wins?

JBL
Superman drops his mental blocks an run up on prime and gets his head seperated from his body in one right hook.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Superman drops his mental blocks an run up on prime and gets his head seperated from his body in one right hook.

Triggered.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JBL
Superman drops his mental blocks an run up on prime and gets his head seperated from his body in one right hook.
Not even bloodlusted Time Trapper SBP could do that with several attacks.

Normal Superman was drawing blood from him.

JBL
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not even bloodlusted Time Trapper SBP could do that with several attacks.

Normal Superman was drawing blood from him. Normal superman? So this normal superman of yours let prime kill all those hero's instead of dropping mental blocks and atleast saving some of them? That would be the dumbest plot driven comic ever released to the public if superman could get stronger by removing mental blocks. I wonder why he didn't do that in over 50 years? Oh wait, millions of fans know why.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Normal superman? So this normal superman of yours let prime kill all those hero's instead of dropping mental blocks and atleast saving some of them? That would be the dumbest plot driven comic ever released to the public if superman could get stronger by removing mental blocks. I wonder why he didn't do that in over 50 years? Oh wait, millions of fans know why.

Do you ever take a break between meltdowns? It juss kills you Superman has dynamic powers, you have to blatantly ignore scans.

JBL
People that Sun amp don't have dynamic strength. The sun gave superman his powers.. not his mental state. Superman had mental blocks to keep from having to keep reminding himself to be careful around weaker people, Fact. Kills you don't it? Lol.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
People that Sun amp don't have dynamic strength. The sun gave superman his powers.. not his mental state. Superman had mental blocks to keep from having to keep reminding himself to be careful around weaker people, Fact. Kills you don't it? Lol.

Thanks for proving what I said elsewhere about you ignoring scans, AND you havingthe reading comprehension of an 8 year old. thumb up

bluewaterrider
I understand JBL's point.

Either Superman can come through when he wants to, or he can't.

If he can't, if the effectively crippling phenomenon of "holding back" is as random as a roll of dice, then Superman automatically should be getting a percentage of losses in forum fights because of it.

Delta1938
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I understand JBL's point.

Either Superman can come through when he wants to, or he can't.

If he can't, if the effectively crippling phenomenon of "holding back" is as random as a roll of dice, then Superman automatically should be getting a percentage of losses in forum fights because of it.

He has no point. It's mental gymnastics. He's been shown multiple examples and pretends they weren't posted while having a hissy fit.

DarkSaint85
He can, except MOST of the foes he faces can be beaten without him needing to.

It's like saying he doesn't have HV....because he doesn't bust it out in every fight.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He can, except MOST of the foes he faces can be beaten without him needing to.

It's like saying he doesn't have HV....because he doesn't bust it out in every fight.


I don't think it's quite like saying that in context of this thread for 2 reasons:

1. I posted a thread where I had Red She-Hulk fighting the Doomsday of the arc mentioned in shorthand (Death of Superman). With She-Hulk taken from the "Wishing Well" storyline at the point where she equalled World Breaker Hulk in power. Superboy Prime is often roughly equated to this level, or just a little below. Most respondents effectively told me I had inadvertently created a spite thread -- She-Hulk from that arc is simply too much stronger than Doomsday to make a fair fight. But if Doomsday was the equal of Superman in that story and Prime nearly equal to Wishing Well She-Hulk, then Prime similarly outmatches Superman from that era.

2. The Death of Superman arc ended with a comatose Superman. His ability to stop "holding back" failed here despite the stakes. I don't doubt there are OTHER heroes with the power set to stop SCW Prime that couldn't stop Doomsday, for, if memory serves, the big key to taking Prime in that arc was to either slag his suit or just keep him from sunlight long enough to subdue, but I don't see an angry Doomsday-era Superman able to turn that trick solo.

Prof. T.C McAbe
The Superman from this era needed a long time to dropp his mental (subcounscious) blocks against DD. It happned bit by bit till he was able to kill DD. Against Prime he wouldn't have the necessary time before getting koed or killed. After OWAW it's an entire different debate.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I don't think it's quite like saying that in context of this thread for 2 reasons:

1. I posted a thread where I had Red She-Hulk fighting the Doomsday of the arc mentioned in shorthand (Death of Superman). With She-Hulk taken from the "Wishing Well" storyline at the point where she equalled World Breaker Hulk in power. Superboy Prime is often roughly equated to this level, or just a little below. Most respondents effectively told me I had inadvertently created a spite thread -- She-Hulk from that arc is simply too much stronger than Doomsday to make a fair fight. But if Doomsday was the equal of Superman in that story and Prime nearly equal to Wishing Well She-Hulk, then Prime similarly outmatches Superman from that era.

2. The Death of Superman arc ended with a comatose Superman. His ability to stop "holding back" failed here despite the stakes. I don't doubt there are OTHER heroes with the power set to stop SCW Prime that couldn't stop Doomsday, for, if memory serves, the big key to taking Prime in that arc was to either slag his suit or just keep him from sunlight long enough to subdue, but I don't see an angry Doomsday-era Superman able to turn that trick solo.

That's not the point you were making in the post I replied to, however.

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's not the point you were making in the post I replied to, however.

It's Blue. Of course it wasn't.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's not the point you were making in the post I replied to, however.



Can you post exactly what you think the point I was making that you responded to was? Superman's "level up" ability seems to have been too slow to have been of practical use in either DOS (Death of Superman) OR the Sinestro Corps War (SCW).

DarkSaint85
Except now you're including a rate component into it, when previously it was a binary either he can or he can't choice.

carver9
Prime one shots.

Delta1938
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Can you post exactly what you think the point I was making that you responded to was? Superman's "level up" ability seems to have been too slow to have been of practical use in either DOS (Death of Superman) OR the Sinestro Corps War (SCW).

He didn't "level up" until the end of the fight. He literally hurt his hands at one point before dropping the mental blocks, and beat Doomsday to death while injured and fatigue. Doomsday had been getting stronger as the fight went on, confirmed in SUPERMAN: REBIRTH.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except now you're including a rate component into it, when previously it was a binary either he can or he can't choice.


JBL states it that way.

And I understand to a fair extent why he does.

And I said as much.


But that doesn't mean he has exactly the same view I do, anymore than my saying I understand Delta's point of view means that Delta and I share the same view.

I think Superman does have SOME ability to turn things up a notch, but not nearly as much most times as his most del devoted fans seem to think.

Delta1938
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
JBL states it that way.

And I understand to a fair extent why he does.

And I said as much.


But that doesn't mean he has exactly the same view I do, anymore than my saying I understand Delta's point of view means that Delta and I share the same view.

I think Superman does have SOME ability to turn things up a notch, but not nearly as much most times as his most del devoted fans seem to think.

The difference is, I'm actually right. big grin

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
JBL states it that way.

And I understand to a fair extent why he does.

And I said as much.


But that doesn't mean he has exactly the same view I do, anymore than my saying I understand Delta's point of view means that Delta and I share the same view.

I think Superman does have SOME ability to turn things up a notch, but not nearly as much most times as his most del devoted fans seem to think.

Except your view is far closer to the Superfans view,than to JBL's. He not only sees it as a binary choice, but that it's a resounding 'no'.

The way your post was phrased, however,implied you were closer to his way of thinking.

But now, re reading it,I can see it's mostly just you waffling on.

bluewaterrider
Misunderstanding on your part is not "waffling" on mine, D.S.

There's a vast deal I agree with JBL on.
Let's take another look at this post of his


Originally posted by JBL
Normal superman? So this normal superman of yours let prime kill all those hero's instead of dropping mental blocks and atleast saving some of them? That would be the dumbest plot driven comic ever released to the public if superman could get stronger by removing mental blocks. I wonder why he didn't do that in over 50 years? Oh wait, millions of fans know why.

This post of JBL's wasn't made in a vacuum. There's context and history behind it that the average fan reading this thread has little chance of understanding solely from what's printed here. I have my own knowledge of history; immediately coming to mind for me is the run of one Jeph Loeb, who gave this "Hey, maybe Superman holds back!" explanation to draw to a close his re-introduction of one Kara Zor-El, aka Supergirl, circa 2004, in her second story arc. Been thinking a LOT about that lately. Been seeing in places where pro-Superman people have been tacitly admitting that explanation doesn't follow from anything Jeph put in his books, makes sense most rather, that some editorial mandate had been passed "Jeph, do something to make people think status quo has been preserved".

Why have they been doing this?

Because the producers of the Supergirl TV Series starring Melissa Benoist gave their answer to who the strongest between these 2 actually is, on many levels. And also who'd win in a fight.

A lot of Superman fans WON'T like the answer. DON'T like the answer.
Fact, I sent Delta a PM with links to 2 clips showing what happened. More than five times as many likes for the clip as dislikes, but nearly all dislikes focused on ONE thing, and now I see YouTube has removed what I sent him.

I suspect the same fate awaits this one, but it's worth showing:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fRCViWFs3Jg

Delta1938
laughing Jeph already wrote Superman like that in the OWAW prelude a few years before reintroducing Kara.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Delta1938


Jeph already wrote Superman like that in the OWAW prelude a few years before reintroducing Kara.

Nearly all heroes are written as holding back though. From Thor to Spider-Man level. Prove that Superman did so prior to 2004 to a greater level than Thor, or Spider-Man or any run-of-the-mill strong hero does anywhere else in comicdom.

Show me Kurt Busiek level crippling pre-2004 and you might find even me giving some validity to the idea.

Delta1938
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Nearly all heroes are written as holding back though. From Thor to Spider-Man level. Prove that Superman did so prior to 2004 to a greater level than Thor, or Spider-Man or any run-of-the-mill strong hero does anywhere else in comicdom.

Show me Kurt Busiek level crippling pre-2004 and you might find even me giving some validity to the idea.


Except it's not the same with Superman. Leob specifically showed that in the run I'm referring to. I'm on my Xbox so can't post links, but it's recently been posted in other threads.

Plus you're one to demand scans given your rarity of backing your argument with relevant scans.

EDIT: Scans from early Post-CRISIS Superman showing it's more than what others try to argue are posted by Phil in OWAW Superman vs Superboy Prime on page 2.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Misunderstanding on your part is not "waffling" on mine, D.S.


It is, when you point is buried under multiple lines. Case in point, the post that I'm quoting.

Rao Kal El
Oh dear lord.

Two of superman hate camp

JBL having his daily meltdown and Blue ignoring evidence presented to him.

Both waste of time to be honest. At least Blue is a nice guy

Im going to post a whole arc in which it was talked about Superman's mental block and how he supreses his powers based on his mindset. It's like 10 scans in which he fought a group of supervillains and then you can see the difference of his mental blocks. This was on the early days of Byrne era Superman.

But first I am going to have breakfast

cdtm
Bluewaterrider, does Thor worry about breaking a man's jaw?

Tbh, Spidey and probably even Norrin Radd DO hold back as much as Superman. They both have what's known as "World of Cardboard syndrome".

JBL
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Misunderstanding on your part is not "waffling" on mine, D.S.

There's a vast deal I agree with JBL on.
Let's take another look at this post of his




This post of JBL's wasn't made in a vacuum. There's context and history behind it that the average fan reading this thread has little chance of understanding solely from what's printed here. I have my own knowledge of history; immediately coming to mind for me is the run of one Jeph Loeb, who gave this "Hey, maybe Superman holds back!" explanation to draw to a close his re-introduction of one Kara Zor-El, aka Supergirl, circa 2004, in her second story arc. Been thinking a LOT about that lately. Been seeing in places where pro-Superman people have been tacitly admitting that explanation doesn't follow from anything Jeph put in his books, makes sense most rather, that some editorial mandate had been passed "Jeph, do something to make people think status quo has been preserved".

Why have they been doing this?

Because the producers of the Supergirl TV Series starring Melissa Benoist gave their answer to who the strongest between these 2 actually is, on many levels. And also who'd win in a fight.

A lot of Superman fans WON'T like the answer. DON'T like the answer.
Fact, I sent Delta a PM with links to 2 clips showing what happened. More than five times as many likes for the clip as dislikes, but nearly all dislikes focused on ONE thing, and now I see YouTube has removed what I sent him.

I suspect the same fate awaits this one, but it's worth showing:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fRCViWFs3Jg Blue, don't waste your time with these fanatic superman fans. They want to protect superman by creating a way to save their hero by trying to give a reason to cover his losses. He loses to Zoom, they yell, superman was holding back!! That's their so call saving grace they had to make up. Yet they fail to see the he obvious. If superman could do what they say, then this would happen. In his fans eyes, he's almost as fast as flash, a little slower, equal or a little faster than WW reflex wise. Equal to or a little stronger Than CM, BA and other strong DC characters. Almost as or equal to DD. Now if this superman of theirs could grant their wet dreams, he would surpass all mentioned greatly. Sadly for them, he never has in over 50 years. But it's entertaining to hear them beg.😂

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Blue, don't waste your time with these fanatic superman fans. They want to protect superman by creating a way to save their hero by trying to give a reason to cover his losses. He loses to Zoom, they yell, superman was holding back!! That's their so call saving grace they had to make up. Yet they fail to see the he obvious. If superman could do what they say, then this would happen. In his fans eyes, he's almost as fast as flash, a little slower, equal or a little faster than WW reflex wise. Equal to or a little stronger Than CM, BA and other strong DC characters. Almost as or equal to DD. Now if this superman of theirs could grant their wet dreams, he would surpass all mentioned greatly. Sadly for them, he never has in over 50 years. But it's entertaining to hear them beg.😂

Triggered.

JBL
Even their Lord OWAW superman could only do no better than DD who destroyed the same probes. Superman could not at first because he was pre occupied worrying and not focused. DD had no such concerns.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Even their Lord OWAW superman could only do no better than DD who destroyed the same probes. Superman could not at first because he was pre occupied worrying and not focused. DD had no such concerns.

Seriously, did someone in a Superman costume traumatize you as a child? That's the only reason I can think of for you to be so personally offended that Superman even has a chance of winning the fight in any random topic with him I've seen you cry in.

JBL
Originally posted by Delta1938
Triggered. Whose faster, OWAW superman or Flash?

JBL
Originally posted by Delta1938
Seriously, did someone in a Superman costume traumatize you as a child? That's the only reason I can think of for you to be so personally offended that Superman even has a chance of winning the fight in any random topic with him I've seen you cry in. Was it you?

cdtm
When he's right, he's right.

It's pretty common knowledge (Or should be) that Loeb was trying to push Supergirl as physically stronger then Superman. Gave an explanation that she spent more time under a yellow sun absorbing energy, had Kal use a green K ring to subdue her, and other tells.

And then, for whatever reason, this was retconned.

The "limiters off/probe busting" narrative is neither here nor there on that front, and was pretty clearly used as a sloppy retcon of everything he wrote prior.

Why, is anybody's guess.

JBL
Originally posted by JBL
Whose faster, OWAW superman or Flash? Come on troll, answer the question. Don't stop stalking Now get to talking. Whose faster?

JBL
Delta?? Waiting. Tic tic tic tic tic...... Guess delta air lies (lines) has flown away in shame. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by backup
All right, what if this guy:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2poe2z5.jpg

Replaces Doomsday in DOS and fight with bloodlusted Superman?

Note: This is Superboy Prime during SCW.

Who wins? Superman-Prime wholeheartedly

emu
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Oh dear lord.

Two of superman hate camp

JBL having his daily meltdown and Blue ignoring evidence presented to him.

Both waste of time to be honest. At least Blue is a nice guy

Im going to post a whole arc in which it was talked about Superman's mental block and how he supreses his powers based on his mindset. It's like 10 scans in which he fought a group of supervillains and then you can see the difference of his mental blocks. This was on the early days of Byrne era Superman.

But first I am going to have breakfast Is it mental blocks or dynamic strength?

Quick, before Abhi comes in yelling for both lol.

Prof. T.C McAbe
Originally posted by emu
Is it mental blocks or dynamic strength?

Quick, before Abhi comes in yelling for both lol.

If you subconsciously use only 10% of your strength and in extreme situations tap into more till the 100% like in OWAW where it boosted Superman to at least 10 times his normal self, it's both.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Whose faster, OWAW superman or Flash?

First, it would be "who is," as "whose" is the possessive. But I'm not surprised.

As to your question, if we assume Superman in his Probe busting mindset has a similar boost in speed as he did show in strength and heat vision, then OWAW Superman is faster.

In fact, an Imperiex Probe caught Wally in Wally's only shown encounter with one(unless I missed something).

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Miscellaneous/Imperiex_Prime/Probes/JLA/th_JLA_OWAW-PG04-05.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Miscellaneous/Imperiex_Prime/Probes/JLA/th_JLA_OWAW-PG06.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Miscellaneous/Imperiex_Prime/Probes/JLA/th_JLA_OWAW-PG07-08.jpg

Take a good look at the last one. He didn't tag Wally, he literally grabbed Wally by the arm. Wally was caught off guard? Perhaps, but it makes a hard case that he's leaps and bounds faster than the Probe. Superman though, has fought one at super speed.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Speed/SpeedBlitz-OperationalSpeed/SpeedBlitz/Miscellaneous/th_AC781-PG02-03.jpg

I'll be waiting for your metldown.

Originally posted by JBL
Was it you?

Nope, however I did **** your mom while she wore a Supergirl costume and you walked in on us thinking I was hurting her. You were so young, I wouldn't be surprised if you mixed that up as me dressed as Superman.

Originally posted by JBL
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/JLBTriggered.png

Originally posted by JBL
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/JLBTriggered.png

You're so delightfully declaring victory because I didn't immediately respond to you? I wonder how sad your life is that it's come to this. Since you think I'm running away in shame because I didn't respond on command, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just missed the question I gave you a while back in another thread. Unless you're a hypocrite? I'll be waiting for a response.

Originally posted by Delta1938
You believe you've definitively proven that Superman wasn't weakened when split. Explain then why he stated, both directly and implied, that he was weaker than before, multiple times, in SUPERMAN: LOIS & CLARK, which definitely is before merging back.

"Digging a 13 mile wide trench in the ocean floor.....is NOT as easy as it used to be."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK1-PG11.jpg

"May not be what I was...."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK1-PG19.jpg

"Not sure why, but my powers aren't what they were." "Whatever the case, it's taken a toll.....leaving me weaker than I care to admit."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK4-PG13.jpg

"She can cut me?! Because I've gotten weaker?"

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK8-PG10.jpg

So, what mental gymnastics are you going to do now?

Delta1938
Originally posted by cdtm
When he's right, he's right.

It's pretty common knowledge (Or should be) that Loeb was trying to push Supergirl as physically stronger then Superman. Gave an explanation that she spent more time under a yellow sun absorbing energy, had Kal use a green K ring to subdue her, and other tells.

And then, for whatever reason, this was retconned.

The "limiters off/probe busting" narrative is neither here nor there on that front, and was pretty clearly used as a sloppy retcon of everything he wrote prior.

Why, is anybody's guess.

Not really. Blue certainly seems to be arguing that Loeb whipped it up out of nowhere to satisfy editors to "keep the status quo."

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
-- immediately coming to mind for me is the run of one Jeph Loeb, who gave this "Hey, maybe Superman holds back!" explanation to draw to a close his re-introduction of one Kara Zor-El, aka Supergirl, circa 2004, in her second story arc. Been thinking a LOT about that lately. Been seeing in places where pro-Superman people have been tacitly admitting that explanation doesn't follow from anything Jeph put in his books, makes sense most rather, that some editorial mandate had been passed "Jeph, do something to make people think status quo has been preserved".

But he'd already written things about Superman holding back. In 1999.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/MongulTraining

These scans in particular are worth bringing up.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/MongulTraining/th_SUPERMAN_V2_152-PG07.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/MongulTraining/th_SUPERMAN_V2_152-PG12.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/MongulTraining/th_SUPERMAN_V2_152-PG15.jpg

Last two scans have a couple pages between of the flashback of Clark preparing for and fighting a bully as a kid before his powers started developing. Didn't have anything specifically about him holding back, other than setting up that was the only time in his life he had hit someone as hard as he could, until the end against Doomsday.

As for her having absorbed more solar energy, that was a theory based on the panels in her ship. Her powers were still developing on Earth, so if anything they just had her get to the level she was at faster. Loeb already established him holding back, so her seeming to be superior because she doesn't have his restraint makes far more sense.

carver9
If someone have dynamic strength, would this not be something that is always displayed instead of like 2 to 3 showings in 99999999 thousand yrs?

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
If someone have dynamic strength, would this not be something that is always displayed instead of like 2 to 3 showings in 99999999 thousand yrs?

They've dedicated entire storylines to it. You fail. Like usual.

carver9
Are you talking about him getting weaker? No one is denying that. The argument is him getting stronger than his base. It's like me using this scene in A superman vs Hulk debate saying that Hulk can absorb Superman heat vision and redirect it back at him...

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FRZM6C1clSI/WAXtlRDU_rI/AAAAAAAA1_A/N4yqG-e_nnUii38nj029pChtCeqSP4NpQCLcB/s1600/hulk270_20.jpg

Consistency my friend, consistency.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Are you talking about him getting weaker? No one is denying that. The argument is him getting stronger than his base. It's like me using this scene in A superman vs Hulk debate saying that Hulk can absorb Superman heat vision and redirect it back at him...

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FRZM6C1clSI/WAXtlRDU_rI/AAAAAAAA1_A/N4yqG-e_nnUii38nj029pChtCeqSP4NpQCLcB/s1600/hulk270_20.jpg

Consistency my friend, consistency.

Stronger than his base, like saying he felt his powers surging?

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/MongulTraining/th_SUPERMAN_V2_152-PG05.jpg


Or like going from powerless for a year and not absorbing sunlight to multiple jumps in his powers as needed?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3

psycho gundam
You guys are debating everything BUT Superman vs Superman-Prime

Carver posted Hulk scans and I'm not even going to read why

Parmaniac
Originally posted by psycho gundam
You guys are debating everything BUT Superman vs Superman-Prime

Carver posted Hulk scans and I'm not even going to read why I agree Prime wins thumb up

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Are you talking about him getting weaker? No one is denying that. The argument is him getting stronger than his base. It's like me using this scene in A superman vs Hulk debate saying that Hulk can absorb Superman heat vision and redirect it back at him...

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FRZM6C1clSI/WAXtlRDU_rI/AAAAAAAA1_A/N4yqG-e_nnUii38nj029pChtCeqSP4NpQCLcB/s1600/hulk270_20.jpg

Consistency my friend, consistency.

What was that villain called again?

Parmaniac
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What was that villain called again? Read the scans man, Mouth Monster duh!

StiltmanFTW
laughing out loud

Galaxy Master. Thanks thumb up

Gotta love those supervillain names.

zopzop
SBP would rip Superman AND Doomsday apart.

Rao Kal El
Here is Byrne Superman Showing the psionic nature of Superman's powers.

Note this is Byrne Superman

First Superman is fighting the Fearsome 5 and he is having trouble fighting them.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/th_AdventuresOfSuperman430p01_zpsebc2888f.jpg


Page 2

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/th_AdventuresOfSuperman430p02_zps10fb9792.jpg

Page 3

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/th_AdventuresOfSuperman430p03_zps97ad7624.jpg

He even gets defeated pg 4
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/th_AdventuresOfSuperman430p04_zps09804f80.jpg

Page 5

Superman is actually having an existential crisis on weather he should be 2 people

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/th_AdventuresOfSuperman430p05_zps0496d656.jpg


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Rao Kal El
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and BTW Have you seen that comic in which Superman took the force of the tanagarian engines jumping into hyperspace?

Superman took that while on this weakened mental state. also the whole comic in which he meets the GL corps and when they move the dwarf planet? yep that one was performed on a weakened mental state, just as when he had the split personality of Gangbuster

Rao Kal El
Also this

He pulverizes the first Bizarro with a punch

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/RESTRAIN/th_SMOFS5SUPERMANHOLDSBACKBYINSTINCT.jpg

JBL
Hulk has displayed dynamic strength thousands of times in almost ALL his comics. These misguided superman fans run to two comics where superman fights DD and probes and claim he has dynamic strength. Lol. What about the ten million showings of superman that shows he doesn't???? The end

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Hulk has displayed dynamic strength thousands of times in almost ALL his comics. These misguided superman fans run to two comics where superman fights DD and probes and claim he has dynamic strength. Lol. What about the ten million showings of superman that shows he doesn't???? The end

So you gleefully declare I've "run away in shame" because I didn't respond after 10 minutes, I reply, back my case, point-out that you missed my question to you elsewhere and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt you're not a hypocrite, you're gone for 6 hours, then ignore my response and continue your bullshit mental gymnastics? Cry some more.

Rao Kal El
oh and look and behold

the interview that confirms what we have been telling all those naysayers plus all the scans that we have shown

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/FB_IMG_1496190396191_zpsqeiacx72.jpg

Rao Kal El
next time Ill use lube JBL.

WHAT DOES JBL stands for? Junior ***** Lubed?

Tomala JBL

What is Superman's strength?

Say it with Byrne!

"Whatever he believes to be"

Tomala JBL.

Next time I'll use lube

JBL
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
next time Ill use lube JBL.

WHAT DOES JBL stands for? Junior ***** Lubed?

Tomala JBL

What is Superman's strength?

Say it with Byrne!

"Whatever he believes to be"

Tomala JBL.

Next time I'll use lube That's not dynamic strength dummy!

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by JBL
That's not dynamic strength dummy!

His strength is whatever he wants it to be, his strength goes up or down basically at will. his strength is not set in stone like you claim it to be. his strength changes with his mind, what WE have been telling you for years!!!

oh and this comes from a source of Superman that basically will be laughing at your face right now.

You just got raped

Rao Kal El
Here is another one

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/IMG_20160810_215221_zps6gdzhd6v.jpg

Rao Kal El
Superman gets depowered for a year

because he didn't want to be Superman, his body didn't change it was his mentality.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/AC839PSIONICNATUREOFPOWERS.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/AC839PSIONICNATUREOFPOWERS2.jpg

your ass is smoking because of the rape you are getting

Rao Kal El
And bring your writer friend so we can laugh at him as well for not knowing the character he is working for.

Just because apparently I know more english than JBL

dy·nam·ic
dīˈnamik/Submit
adjective
1.
(of a process or system) characterized by constant change, activity, or progress.
"a dynamic economy"
2.
MUSIC
relating to the volume of sound produced by an instrument, voice, or recording.
"an astounding dynamic range"
noun
1.
a force that stimulates change or progress within a system or process.
"evaluation is part of the basic dynamic of the project"

Superman's strength is Dynamic because it goe up or down with his mindset Superman's strength is not set in stone it fluctuates with his mind set.

Delta1938
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/JBL.png

Rao Kal El
He is probably having a meltdown right now or he just ran to his writer friend because his friend is his safe zone.


https://media.tenor.com/images/c9b7dd4e46ad58f06e26eb59763feda2/tenor.gif

JBL
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
His strength is whatever he wants it to be, his strength goes up or down basically at will. his strength is not set in stone like you claim it to be. his strength changes with his mind, what WE have been telling you for years!!!

oh and this comes from a source of Superman that basically will be laughing at your face right now.

You just got raped Nothing you posted shows dynamic strength. Lol. Answer this question and stop avoiding it. Who is faster, your God OWAW superman or Flash? Tic tic tic tic.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Nothing you posted shows dynamic strength. Lol. Answer this question and stop avoiding it. Who is faster, your God OWAW superman or Flash? Tic tic tic tic.

What's the point of this? You asked me this, I gave a reply with my answer backed, after you had declared me running in shame after about 10 minutes, and when I pointed-out you never answered a question I gave you elsewhere, you were utterly silent.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by JBL
Nothing you posted shows dynamic strength. Lol. Answer this question and stop avoiding it. Who is faster, your God OWAW superman or Flash? Tic tic tic tic.

What part of Superman's powers fluctuate with his mind set you don't understand?

Um Superman does not tap into the speed force dummy, he does all this by muscle force, flash does tap into the speed force.

I think is pretty clear both powers work differently, but Superman's muscle force will fluctuate according to his mind set as BYRNE told you so. So superman has Dynamic strength no matter how much you will like to deny it.

You have been raped badly today dude, should I bring the pineapples out?

Rao Kal El
So JBL

What is Superman's strength?

JBL
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
What part of Superman's powers fluctuate with his mind set you don't understand?

Um Superman does not tap into the speed force dummy, he does all this by muscle force, flash does tap into the speed force.

I think is pretty clear both powers work differently, but Superman's muscle force will fluctuate according to his mind set as BYRNE told you so. So superman has Dynamic strength no matter how much you will like to deny it.

You have been raped badly today dude, should I bring the pineapples out? Self rape is bad dude. Superman cannot will himself stronger dummy. That's why he sundips. Get it, Now? If he could drop mental blocks and will himself stronger, why the hell does he have to sundip to get stronger?? You are raping yourself dummy.

carver9
So I see scans of Superman being defeated by some villains but wins in the end. So, I have scans of Spiderman achieving the same thing. Thor achieving the same thing. Scans of Wolverine getting slaughtered by Saber tooth and destroying him in the end. Every freaking hero has done this. Thor was getting curbed by Hyperion to the point of His hammer bouncing clean off his chest. Guess what happened during their second encounter. Thor was getting curbed by Count Nef to the point of His hammer bouncing off of his chest. Guess what happened the second time. Thor has dynamic strength as well if this is all it takes to claim it. Spiderman punches has done next to nothing to Thing. Guess what happened during their last encounter. Spiderman is known for this. This stuff is common in comics. Are we giving everyone dynamic strength?

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Self rape is bad dude. Superman cannot will himself stronger dummy. That's why he sundips. Get it, Now? If he could drop mental blocks and will himself stronger, why the hell does he have to sundip to get stronger?? You are raping yourself dummy.

He doesn't get stronger?

Originally posted by carver9
Are you talking about him getting weaker? No one is denying that. The argument is him getting stronger than his base.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Stronger than his base, like saying he felt his powers surging?

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/MongulTraining/th_SUPERMAN_V2_152-PG05.jpg


Or like going from powerless for a year and not absorbing sunlight to multiple jumps in his powers as needed?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3

These aren't the only examples. Also, they're not these two.

Originally posted by JBL
These misguided superman fans run to two comics where superman fights DD and probes and claim he has dynamic strength.

Cry some more.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
So I see scans of Superman being defeated by some villains but wins in the end. So, I have scans of Spiderman achieving the same thing. Thor achieving the same thing. Scans of Wolverine getting slaughtered by Saber tooth and destroying him in the end. Every freaking hero has done this. Thor was getting curbed by Hyperion to the point of His hammer bouncing clean off his chest. Guess what happened during their second encounter. Thor was getting curbed by Count Nef to the point of His hammer bouncing off of his chest. Guess what happened the second time. Thor has dynamic strength as well. Spiderman punches has done next to nothing to Thing. Guess what happened during their last encounter. Spiderman is known for this. This stuff is common in comics. Are we giving everyone dynamic strength?

You've literally been shown on many occasions scans proving your comparison false. So is it poor reading comprehension, or you're lying? Actually, probably both.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by JBL
Self rape is bad dude. Superman cannot will himself stronger dummy. That's why he sundips. Get it, Now? If he could drop mental blocks and will himself stronger, why the hell does he have to sundip to get stronger?? You are raping yourself dummy.

Lol, he sundiped to get to the NEXT level. But as casey said in an interview and after he droped his mental blocks becaise os Mongul training.

Superman on his busting probe mental state could have taken into imperiex prime himself. He didn't as he snapped out of that mental state. So the easiest fastest solution is to sundip so he can achieve a power level beyond probe busting mode easier than getting into that mental state.

Add the mental state in which Superman is at war plus the sundip and you have a superman who was able to take on Imperiex Prime and Brainiac war world.

That is how powerful he became because of two things sundip and mental state. Otherwise he would just have to enter into that probe busting mode to take on imperiex prime as casey stated on an interview.

Take this as your traditional DBZ power level. When a Super saiyan 2 is taking on a super saiyan blue level. Carter will understand this as he is such a dbz fan.

But anyhow dude, you are getting raped.

What is Superman's strength again?

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by carver9
So I see scans of Superman being defeated by some villains but wins in the end. So, I have scans of Spiderman achieving the same thing. Thor achieving the same thing. Scans of Wolverine getting slaughtered by Saber tooth and destroying him in the end. Every freaking hero has done this. Thor was getting curbed by Hyperion to the point of His hammer bouncing clean off his chest. Guess what happened during their second encounter. Thor was getting curbed by Count Nef to the point of His hammer bouncing off of his chest. Guess what happened the second time. Thor has dynamic strength as well if this is all it takes to claim it. Spiderman punches has done next to nothing to Thing. Guess what happened during their last encounter. Spiderman is known for this. This stuff is common in comics. Are we giving everyone dynamic strength?

I know you lack the knowledge of reading and you only see the pretty pictures but if you were capable of reading and undertanding what you read, you will have realized that Superman's power fluctuate because he was having an existential issue and his mind was not fully wanted to be superman or clark.

When you learn how to read let me know. You really can't be this stupid

JBL
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Lol, he sundiped to get to the NEXT level. But as casey said in an interview and after he droped his mental blocks becaise os Mongul training.

Superman on his busting probe mental state could have taken into imperiex prime himself. He didn't as he snapped out of that mental state. So the easiest fastest solution is to sundip so he can achieve a power level beyond probe busting mode easier than getting into that mental state.

Add the mental state in which Superman is at war plus the sundip and you have a superman who was able to take on Imperiex Prime and Brainiac war world.

That is how powerful he became because of two things sundip and mental state. Otherwise he would just have to enter into that probe busting mode to take on imperiex prime as casey stated on an interview.

Take this as your traditional DBZ power level. When a Super saiyan 2 is taking on a super saiyan blue level. Carter will understand this as he is such a dbz fan.

But anyhow dude, you are getting raped.

What is Superman's strength again? You just said that superman is as strong as he wants to be. Now he has a new level by sundipping????

eaebiakuya
That Superman can increase his power i think we all know by now.

But Supermans fans, he could beat Prime in that stance or not?

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
You just said that superman is as strong as he wants to be. Now he has a new level by sundipping????

Rao Kal-El cannot be reached at this moment. His pain medication has made him unavailable. He will rape you to tears at a later time.

panthergod
In OWAW right before he sundipped he had over come his humanized limitations and attachments per Steels description.. He was in ALL Out mindset right as he sundipped.

JBL
Originally posted by Delta1938
Rao Kal-El cannot be reached at this moment. His pain medication has made him unavailable. He will rape you to tears at a later time. Can you comprehend anything??? Mongul taught superman to stop worrying about shit and stay focused. He could only defeat the probes by fighting like DD. Distractions Rob you of victory. You cannot be that stupid to not know that.

carver9
Originally posted by panthergod
In OWAW right before he sundipped he had over come his humanized limitations and attachments per Steels description.. He was in ALL Out mindset right as he sundipped.

What was the point of Sun dipping if he can physically amp himself to achieve whatever goal that's in front of him. Hulk doesn't dip himself in gamma energy to make himself stronger or to display his dynamic strength. He gets madder which makes him stronger. Before pushing World World, he broke those mental blocks which presumably made him stronger per your admission. Why take an approach that he was even unsure of to achieve a ft of strength when that's all he had to do was release those mental blocks to become stronger.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Can you comprehend anything??? Mongul taught superman to stop worrying about shit and stay focused. He could only defeat the probes by fighting like DD. Distractions Rob you of victory. You cannot be that stupid to not know that.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Stronger than his base, like saying he felt his powers surging?

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/MongulTraining/th_SUPERMAN_V2_152-PG05.jpg


Or like going from powerless for a year and not absorbing sunlight to multiple jumps in his powers as needed?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3

You're focusing on some of what Mongul said, while ignoring what doesn't fit your criteria, because the training did not do only what you so desperately want it to. And you question other's ability to comprehend. Answer this: If all the training was meant Superman could focus better, why did he say he felt his powers surging, if they weren't increasing? After all, you demand others answer your questions while failing to reply to others. Being a hypocrite and all.

And I take it you ran in shame from this.

Originally posted by Delta1938
You believe you've definitively proven that Superman wasn't weakened when split. Explain then why he stated, both directly and implied, that he was weaker than before, multiple times, in SUPERMAN: LOIS & CLARK, which definitely is before merging back.

"Digging a 13 mile wide trench in the ocean floor.....is NOT as easy as it used to be."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK1-PG11.jpg

"May not be what I was...."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK1-PG19.jpg

"Not sure why, but my powers aren't what they were." "Whatever the case, it's taken a toll.....leaving me weaker than I care to admit."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK4-PG13.jpg

"She can cut me?! Because I've gotten weaker?"

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK8-PG10.jpg

So, what mental gymnastics are you going to do now?

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
What was the point of Sun dipping if he can physically amp himself to achieve whatever goal that's in front of him. Hulk doesn't dip himself in gamma energy to make himself stronger or to display his dynamic strength. He gets madder which makes him stronger. Before pushing World World, he broke those mental blocks which presumably made him stronger per your admission. Why take an approach that he was even unsure of to achieve a ft of strength when that's all he had to do was release those mental blocks to become stronger.

Moving the goal post again I see.

JBL
Originally posted by carver9
What was the point of Sun dipping if he can physically amp himself to achieve whatever goal that's in front of him. Hulk doesn't dip himself in gamma energy to make himself stronger or to display his dynamic strength. He gets madder which makes him stronger. Before pushing World World, he broke those mental blocks which presumably made him stronger per your admission. Why take an approach that he was even unsure of to achieve a ft of strength when that's all he had to do was release those mental blocks to become stronger. Don't waste your time with that slow person carvers. Anybody with common sense knows that if superman can increase his strength by dropping mental blocks, why would he have to fly off and sundip??????????. They think that just because superman is allowed to win in the end, he has dynamic strength. LMAO!!!! Who in the hell wants to read a comic where the hero starts of winning and then finish off the threat in the end???? Every hero does that. Superman has mental blocks to keep from having to constantly remind himself he's around normal humans and not give his identity away when he's Clark. Some superman fans are so slow😂

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Don't waste your time with that slow person carvers. Anybody with common sense knows that if superman can increase his strength by dropping mental blocks, why would he have to fly off and sundip??????????. They think that just because superman is allowed to win in the end, he has dynamic strength. LMAO!!!! Who in the hell wants to read a comic where the hero starts of winning and then finish off the threat in the end???? Every hero does that. Superman has mental blocks to keep from having to constantly remind himself he's around normal humans and not give his identity away when he's Clark. Some superman fans are so slow😂

So you've run away in shame from my questions. It's official. You're a hypocrite.

-Pr-
Yeah, if you guys can't get along without bashing, you should put each other on ignore.

Delta1938
K.

panthergod
Originally posted by carver9
What was the point of Sun dipping if he can physically amp himself to achieve whatever goal that's in front of him. Hulk doesn't dip himself in gamma energy to make himself stronger or to display his dynamic strength. He gets madder which makes him stronger. Before pushing World World, he broke those mental blocks which presumably made him stronger per your admission. Why take an approach that he was even unsure of to achieve a ft of strength when that's all he had to do was release those mental blocks to become stronger.
Its a figure of speech. Superman was covering all the bases nor does he know his own full potential. WE know his limits are based on his self belief. HE doesn't. Hence he broke through another block under the same writer Mark Schultz in Apokolops Now against Darkseid and then another regaining super intelligence and upgraded HV in Up Up and Away post IC by Busiek and Johns. He still hasn't accessed the full Kryptonian energy manipulating power set while in standard form as shown in Arena by Alternate Kal-El Chris Kent and again elaborated by Wraith in Superman Unchained in Nu52, further displayed by Lana Langs Superwoman and that he originally accessed while in the Electric Superman era.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by cdtm
Bluewaterrider, does Thor worry about breaking a man's jaw?

Tbh, Spidey and probably even Norrin Radd DO hold back as much as Superman. They both have what's known as "World of Cardboard syndrome".


The earliest use of the phrase, "world of cardboard" which I know of, occurred not in the Justice League cartoon that made it famous (Google-video searching the words "Darkseid", "Superman", "Cardboard" and/or "Punch" should yield the scene we're all thinking of), but in a comic that was referring to the strength of the Fantastic Four Marvel character Thing. From a time when the purported max weight the Thing could "officially" lift was around 5 tons. In fact, it was spoken by a being who was asking his listener to consider: if 5-ton-lifting Thing felt that he lives in a world of cardboard, what must it feel like to be the far-stronger Incredible Hulk?

So I don't know if you're being facetious about Spider-Man or not; it's worth mentioning, though, because Spider-Man today, and for perhaps the last 30 or more years, would indeed have the strength rating of a "world of cardboard" character.


And Spider-Man does indeed hold back. I seem to remember an episode involving "Superior" Spider-Man where Otto Octavius-possessed Spider-Man punched the jaw of a villain clean off. Certainly Spider-Man can kill with one shot, read the tragic original Spider-Man versus Wolverine, circa 1987, for corroboration.
The scene most etched in my mind from childhood readings however, is the following, taken from the storyline "Murder by Spider", Amazing Spider-Man #266, if memory serves:



https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34943663_image.jpg https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34943664_image.jpg

carver9
Dynamic strength...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113883/3381191-1098910083-x68nt.jpg

panthergod
Peter Parker has dynamic strength on a par lesser scale, scope and degree..and? How is that relevant?

carver9
Originally posted by panthergod
Peter Parker has dynamic strength on a par lesser scale, scope and degree..and? How is that relevant?

Dynamic strength?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111154974/3838633-thorstrength28309.jpg

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by panthergod
Its a figure of speech. Superman was covering all the bases nor does he know his own full potential. WE know his limits are based on his self belief. HE doesn't. Hence he broke through another block under the same writer Mark Schultz in Apokolops Now against Darkseid and then another regaining super intelligence and upgraded HV in Up Up and Away post IC by Busiek and Johns. He still hasn't accessed the full Kryptonian energy manipulating power set while in standard form as shown in Arena by Alternate Kal-El Chris Kent and again elaborated by Wraith in Superman Unchained in Nu52, further displayed by Lana Langs Superwoman and that he originally accessed while in the Electric Superman era.

thumb up

But this idiots are incapable of reading that a writer is using mental blocks to play along witj Superman's strength level. Even if it is in plain english their comprehension reding skills do not allow them to se what is wrote and shown in plain english in front of them.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by JBL
You just said that superman is as strong as he wants to be. Now he has a new level by sundipping????

Look it's not my fault that you are stupid enough to not understand what it has been writen and shown in front of your face for over the years.

It has been shown to you by different writers that Superman's powers vary depending on his minds set people have actually posted the scans of those instances on this forums for you to read. You are just playing and argument of disvelief and clinging into showings that may help your case while ignoring the showings that completely prove you wrong.

In this case we have all those scans posted so you can read them and a writer interview confirming what we are saying and yet you are still crying like a little baby because you are uncapable of reading and comprehend plain old english.

You also might be incapable of understanding that sundipping might mean that he just needed to take things to the next level as there are beings on comics that transcend the physical levels to which we called sky fathers and abstracts. So maybe the writer feel the need for superman to transcend the physical level and take things to another level. But might as well be written in plain english and you wont be capable of undertand it.

So once again I ask you

What John Byrne said Was Superman's level of strength?

Please respond the question as I am tired of you trying to dodge the ball and it only makes you look like a crying little pussy boy.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by carver9
Dynamic strength?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111154974/3838633-thorstrength28309.jpg

You can't be this stupid when it is writen in plain english that Superman's mind is affecting his power. Plus that you have the writer confirming that Superman's strength basically depends on his mind set. You really can't be this stupid so you are unable to understand this simple idea that I undertand even though english is not my first language.

Rao Kal El
Basically it comes down to this.

The scans have been presented and the interview with Byrne that confirms Superman's strength has been shown yet the detractors just try to deny the evidence that is right in front of their faces. I would like to take this into a bz but as you can imagine I have better things to do with my time than to school idiots online.

Delta1938
Carter, you've been given the examples of his strength increasing beyond base that you demanded. Why are you not acknowledging them?

JBL
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Basically it comes down to this.

The scans have been presented and the interview with Byrne that confirms Superman's strength has been shown yet the detractors just try to deny the evidence that is right in front of their faces. I would like to take this into a bz but as you can imagine I have better things to do with my time than to school idiots online. Jesus Christ dude!!! Stop crying. There are plenty of writers that have stated that superman does not have dynamic strength, but strength set in stone. Writers that say that superman, CM, BA are in the same class for years. Even having them debating among themselves who is stronger by having them stalemate in arm wrestling and having Superman HIMSELF stating that he and marvel are too close to call. He went all out against DD and still got killed. Had him fuse with CM and it was superman who was surprised, Marvel sensed nothing because two equals in strength gains NOTHING in strength and Marvel had the wisdom of Solomon. You have a DC and marvel flat out stating that Hulks dynamic strength would pass supermans strength showing that it's set in stone. There is not one writer foolish enough to say in ANY comic or interview that superman is only equal to BA or CM until he drops his mental blocks. If he could drop mental blocks and do like you blind fans pray for, there would be no debates, no challengers that are equal or slightly stronger because of your dream dynamic strength. Your crying was amusing for a time, but you really believe yourself. How sad.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Jesus Christ dude!!! Stop crying. There are plenty of writers that have stated that superman does not have dynamic strength, but strength set in stone. Writers that say that superman, CM, BA are in the same class for years. Even having them debating among themselves who is stronger by having them stalemate in arm wrestling and having Superman HIMSELF stating that he and marvel are too close to call. He went all out against DD and still got killed. Had him fuse with CM and it was superman who was surprised, Marvel sensed nothing because two equals in strength gains NOTHING in strength and Marvel had the wisdom of Solomon. You have a DC and marvel flat out stating that Hulks dynamic strength would pass supermans strength showing that it's set in stone. There is not one writer foolish enough to say in ANY comic or interview that superman is only equal to BA or CM until he drops his mental blocks. If he could drop mental blocks and do like you blind fans pray for, there would be no debates, no challengers that are equal or slightly stronger because of your dream dynamic strength. Your crying was amusing for a time, but you really believe yourself. How sad.

Let's see proof of writer's actually stating it. You said "plenty of writers." Considering how many have written Superman, I think it's fair to require you to back your claim with 10 writers who have said Superman's strength is set in stone. Get on it.

JBL
Originally posted by Delta1938
Let's see proof of writer's actually stating it. You said "plenty of writers." Considering how many have written Superman, I think it's fair to require you to back your claim with 10 writers who have said Superman's strength is set in stone. Get on it. If you would stop to think you would already know. Now listen. If supermans strength was increased and decreased throughout his career by writers over 50 years, what does that tell you???

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by JBL
Jesus Christ dude!!! Stop crying. There are plenty of writers that have stated that superman does not have dynamic strength, but strength set in stone. Writers that say that superman, CM, BA are in the same class for years. Even having them debating among themselves who is stronger by having them stalemate in arm wrestling and having Superman HIMSELF stating that he and marvel are too close to call. He went all out against DD and still got killed. Had him fuse with CM and it was superman who was surprised, Marvel sensed nothing because two equals in strength gains NOTHING in strength and Marvel had the wisdom of Solomon. You have a DC and marvel flat out stating that Hulks dynamic strength would pass supermans strength showing that it's set in stone. There is not one writer foolish enough to say in ANY comic or interview that superman is only equal to BA or CM until he drops his mental blocks. If he could drop mental blocks and do like you blind fans pray for, there would be no debates, no challengers that are equal or slightly stronger because of your dream dynamic strength. Your crying was amusing for a time, but you really believe yourself. How sad.

You are just having another meltdown

What did Byrne said? 😂😂😂😂😂

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by JBL
If you would stop to think you would already know. Now listen. If supermans strength was increased and decreased throughout his career by writers over 50 years, what does that tell you???

Hahahahahaha lets see JBL where is your writers proof that Superman's strength is set in stone? 😂😂😂

I mean at least we back up our cases with canon material and writers interviews, you are just blah, blah, blah! blabla

JBL
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
You are just having another meltdown

What did Byrne said? 😂😂😂😂😂 Fail. Give up. History proves superman does not have dynamic strength. Ask CM, you know, the one that stalemate your boy in a direct strength test. Now go play with the rest of the kids😂😂😂😂😂

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by JBL
Fail. Give up. History proves superman does not have dynamic strength. Ask CM, you know, the one that stalemate your boy in a direct strength test. Now go play with the rest of the kids😂😂😂😂😂

Um where is your proof? Just blah, blah, blah!

Oh and your little tamtrums

https://media.tenor.com/images/06069e27afaf1c578eb3f502b7f9990c/tenor.gif

😂😂😂

What did Byrne said?

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
If you would stop to think you would already know. Now listen. If supermans strength was increased and decreased throughout his career by writers over 50 years, what does that tell you???

So you made claims and can't back it up? Concessions accepted.

JBL
Originally posted by Delta1938
So you made claims and can't back it up? Concessions accepted. Wow! Even Stan Lee has said supernans strength is set in stone.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Wow! Even Stan Lee has said supernans strength is set in stone.

Not sure if trolling, or desperation. Or both.

JBL
Originally posted by Delta1938
Not sure if trolling, or desperation. Or both. Stan Lee was asked who he thought would win between hulk and superman. He answered by saying that he established the hulk to get stronger the more he fought with anger. He said that superman had a certain amount of strength and that was it. Not my words. You take one writer words but dismiss another because you don't like what he said. This is getting boring. Abhil is far more skilled at this than you. Come at me Abhil.

abhilegend
Stan Lee has never written Superman. His word regarding Superman is more worthless than yours.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Stan Lee was asked who he thought would win between hulk and superman. He answered by saying that he established the hulk to get stronger the more he fought with anger. He said that superman had a certain amount of strength and that was it. Not my words. You take one writer words but dismiss another because you don't like what he said. This is getting boring. Abhil is far more skilled at this than you. Come at me Abhil.

Even if we pretended Stan Lee had a say over Superman, when he's never even written the actual Superman, you would have to actually provide a link. And then links to 10 writers who have actually written Superman. Since you're the one who said "plenty of writers have said Superman's strength is set in stone." You are using red herrings and strawmen because you know you cannot back what you claim.

Just like you ignored me answering your question because I pointed-out after about 10 minutes, you claimed I "ran away in shame" for not answering it, and you never answered my question. You know that you have no actual argument to back Superman wasn't made weaker by the split. I specifically showed the Pre-FLASHPOINT Superman stating more than once he was weaker than before, and didn't know why.

Or how you claimed there's "only two examples of him getting stronger" when well, this is a strawman and there's more examples anyways, that you ignore.

And many other issues, in this topic alone.

In conclusion, you are both a liar and a hypocrite. If you're not trolling for the lulz, well, it's pretty obvious so I'll leave it at that.

JBL
Originally posted by Delta1938
Even if we pretended Stan Lee had a say over Superman, when he's never even written the actual Superman, you would have to actually provide a link. And then links to 10 writers who have actually written Superman. Since you're the one who said "plenty of writers have said Superman's strength is set in stone." You are using red herrings and strawmen because you know you cannot back what you claim.

Just like you ignored me answering your question because I pointed-out after about 10 minutes, you claimed I "ran away in shame" for not answering it, and you never answered my question. You know that you have no actual argument to back Superman wasn't made weaker by the split. I specifically showed the Pre-FLASHPOINT Superman stating more than once he was weaker than before, and didn't know why.

Or how you claimed there's "only two examples of him getting stronger" when well, this is a strawman and there's more examples anyways, that you ignore.

And many other issues, in this topic alone.

In conclusion, you are both a liar and a hypocrite. If you're not trolling for the lulz, well, it's pretty obvious so I'll leave it at that. You are nothing more than a crazed superman fan that cherry pick scans. You have proved nothing. But I will give you one last chance. Show me anyone on this earth that had said that superman, CM and BA are close in strength UNTIL superman drops mental blocks. Other crazed superman fans don't count. In other words, no one from kmc. Go!

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
You are nothing more than a crazed superman fan that cherry pick scans. You have proved nothing. But I will give you one last chance. Show me anyone on this earth that had said that superman, CM and BA are close in strength UNTIL superman drops mental blocks. Other crazed superman fans don't count. In other words, no one from kmc. Go!

I have proven his strength increases, by posting scans of it happening. You're moving the goal post.

Why are you making red herring and strawman demands when failing to back unsubstantiated claims you've made? It seems you're demanding that I provide proof of something a writer said, to satisfy YOUR goal post moving demands, when you've made a specific claim that "plenty of writers" have said Superman's strength is "set in stone," claimed Stan Lee did(when he never wrote Superman so irrelevant regardless) and have not backed either claim. It doesn't really matter if Stan Lee actually did say it, but I told you to prove it just to prove you're lying. Much like your hypocrisy here.

It comes down to, "I don't have to back what I say but you must give into my demands." Quite authoritative of you.

JBL
Originally posted by Delta1938
I have proven his strength increases, by posting scans of it happening. You're moving the goal post.

Why are you making red herring and strawman demands when failing to back unsubstantiated claims you've made? It seems you're demanding that I provide proof of something a writer said, to satisfy YOUR goal post moving demands, when you've made a specific claim that "plenty of writers" have said Superman's strength is "set in stone," claimed Stan Lee did(when he never wrote Superman so irrelevant regardless) and have not backed either claim. It doesn't really matter if Stan Lee actually did say it, but I told you to prove it just to prove you're lying. Much like your hypocrisy here.

It comes down to, "I don't have to back what I say but you must give into my demands." Quite authoritative of you. Stan Lee knew about superman. You never wrote superman but you are here running you mouth as if you are the expert. Wow!

iceman24567
"Stan Lee knew about Superman" lol this guy is serious though

Rao Kal El
Hahahahaha JBL is bringing Stan Lee as his evidence?


😂😂😂😂 he must really be desperate hahahahahahahaha

JBL
I repeat what Stan Lee said. Mr Lee knew about superman just like DC writers know about hulk and other marvel characters. Writers from different companies do do research on other characters. That's how you get crossovers and what ifs. Jesus Christ!! Get smart people.

DarkSaint85
This is quite weird.

JBL
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Hahahahaha JBL is bringing Stan Lee as his evidence?


😂😂😂😂 he must really be desperate hahahahahahahaha Nice way to dodge the question.LMAO!

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Stan Lee knew about superman. You never wrote superman but you are here running you mouth as if you are the expert. Wow!

I back my arguments with examples from the comics, providing scans.

You've made an unsubstantiated claim that "plenty of writers have said Superman's strength is set in stone." Then when called out to post proof of 10 writers saying this(very reasonable given the number of writers who have worked on Superman) you claim Stan Lee said it. When it's pointed out that Stan Lee hasn't written Superman, but you should prove he said this anyway, and then provide proof of 10 writers saying this, you demand I provide proof of writers saying something very specific you want because you don't want to even acknowledge the existence of scans that prove Superman's powers increasing. Then you say "Stan Lee knew about Superman. You never wrote Superman but are here running you mouth as if you are the expert. Wow!"

I count 4 times of moving the goal post right there.

Also, you never wrote a comic but are acting like you're an expert on Superman.

-K-M-
"Stan Lee knew about Superman"

https://media.giphy.com/media/Vnta6sljHaMgw/giphy.gif

Rao Kal El
And JBL goes


https://media.tenor.com/images/b63483635945e0b24195a45eec11995f/tenor.gif

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by JBL
Nice way to dodge the question.LMAO!

This is probably the most asine argument you have ever used.

"Stan Lee" said superman blabla

Hahahahahahahahaha.

I think it might be funnier because I am high on meds!

Delta1938
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
This is probably the most asine argument you have ever used.

"Stan Lee" said superman blabla

Hahahahahahahahaha.

I think it might be funnier because I am high on meds!

I wonder how your posts will be if it gets to enough in your system you start hallucinating!! eek!

JBL
Originally posted by Delta1938
I wonder how your posts will be if it gets to enough in your system you start hallucinating!! eek! Don't worry. The big post from jbl is coming soon. Have the other fans here please. I want you all at one time.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Delta1938
I wonder how your posts will be if it gets to enough in your system you start hallucinating!! eek!

Dont know man. This shit he writes is pretty deperate and that makes it funny. I just wonder how it will be if I was really high. I should ask for 100 units of benadryl Iv and maybe 1 gram of delauded at the same time will do the trick

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
Don't worry. The big post from jbl is coming soon. Have the other fans here please. I want you all at one time.

I highly doubt it.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by JBL
Don't worry. The big post from jbl is coming soon. Have the other fans here please. I want you all at one time.

Oh you are bringing your writer friend?

Let me go and get mine! laughing out loud

My meds allow me to talk to Jerry siegel and Joe shuster via hallucination, which is much reliable than JBL's writer friend

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is quite weird.



It's actually not when you have background information on the players.


Watch any MMA or UFC training camp "reality" show and you understand half the behavior you see from Delta, for instance. It's almost like he's following a script. And that's true for the next 3 Superman fans that come to mind. I am unsurprised by the content of 4 out of 5 postings from them. YOU are actually harder to figure out than Delta, Abhi, or Salsa. At least for me.

Delta1938
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It's actually not when you have background information on the players.


Watch any MMA or UFC training camp "reality" show and you understand half the behavior you see from Delta, for instance. It's almost like he's following a script. And that's true for the next 3 Superman fans that come to mind. I am unsurprised by the content of 4 out of 5 postings from them. YOU are actually harder to figure out than Delta, Abhi, or Salsa. At least for me.

laughing Never end not stopping being Blue

By the way, what model of iPhone do you have?

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Delta1938


... what model of iPhone do you have?

5, and it sucks for trying to edit or post pictures.

Did you manage to watch the clips I sent you before YouTube deleted them, as I predicted they one day would?

Rao Kal El
I agree Dork saint is harder to figure out than most posters...except for Bluewaterrider big grin

And Blue you should switch to Android

Delta1938
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
5, and it sucks for trying to edit or post pictures.

Did you manage to watch the clips I sent you before YouTube deleted them, as I predicted they one day would?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+screenshot+iPhone+5

There, now you can learn how to make screenshots. Now you can prove that you actually can't see my scans on your iPhone. Here's some stuff.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Stronger than his base, like saying he felt his powers surging?

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/MongulTraining/th_SUPERMAN_V2_152-PG05.jpg


Or like going from powerless for a year and not absorbing sunlight to multiple jumps in his powers as needed?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3

As for the clips, I was groggy and whatnot when I saw them, but don't really care. I find it pretty reaching that you have to claim victory by using a show that's a different continuity because the comics don't support your stance. This isn't the first time I've seen you go to other media to back your claim.

DarkSaint85
Really?

Rao Kal El
^see what i mean smile

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Delta1938
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+screenshot+iPhone+5

There, now you can learn how to make screenshots. Now you can prove that you actually can't see my scans on your iPhone. Here's some stuff.


erm

https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34944257_image.jpg


To be fair, though, getting absolute blanks like that is rare.


More often I get what I got a few moments after that, namely hard-to-see shots that are either blurry when expanded, or delayed activation of controls for the PREVIOUS picture, which zooms out in the background. Which is what happened in the viewing of the last scan here.

Photobucket is generally great if you're viewing it on laptop, as I used to when I had a working laptop. On an iPhone 5, now that I currently don't?
Not so much.


https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34944258_image.jpg https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34944259_image.jpg https://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/34944260_image.jpg

Rao Kal El
PB sucks on mobile i have a hard time with it. Even if I had the pb app

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Delta1938




As for the clips, I was groggy and whatnot when I saw them, but don't really care. I find it pretty reaching that you have to claim victory by using a show that's a different continuity because the comics don't support your stance. This isn't the first time I've seen you go to other media to back your claim.

It probably won't be the last time, either, since I'm usually trying to illustrate a central concept when I do that.

Also, the comics DO support my stance, else you'd have been able to dismantle my argument long, long ago. There's a reason even a Superman fan like cdtm admits the Supergirl case smacks of editorial mandate, and that's because not only Loeb but nearly every writer during that time period gave evidence that Supergirl was, in comic book "fact" physically stronger than her cousin.

Yeah, Superman may be dynamic, but he's not THAT dynamic. Even after "leveling up" he still has a ceiling without outside aids. And that ceiling is lower than the height of Superboy Prime, who, in the very SCW (Sinestro Corps War) saga that the Originating Post of this thread mentions, lanced straight through Big Blue. Little more than a glance and Superman got perforated. He's not going toe-to-toe with a guy like that the way he did Doomsday. And it's doubly sure the Superman OF that earlier Doomsday era couldn't.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JBL
I repeat what Stan Lee said. Mr Lee knew about superman just like DC writers know about hulk and other marvel characters. Writers from different companies do do research on other characters. That's how you get crossovers and what ifs. Jesus Christ!! Get smart people.
Who is using any DC writer's word for Hulk?

abhilegend
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It probably won't be the last time, either, since I'm usually trying to illustrate a central concept when I do that.

Also, the comics DO support my stance, else you'd have been able to dismantle my argument long, long ago. There's a reason even a Superman fan like cdtm admits the Supergirl case smacks of editorial mandate, and that's because not only Loeb but nearly every writer during that time period gave evidence that Supergirl was, in comic book "fact" physically stronger than her cousin.

Yeah, Superman may be dynamic, but he's not THAT dynamic. Even after "leveling up" he still has a ceiling without outside aids. And that ceiling is lower than the height of Superboy Prime, who, in the very SCW (Sinestro Corps War) saga that the Originating Post of this thread mentions, lanced straight through Big Blue. Little more than a glance and Superman got perforated. He's not going toe-to-toe with a guy like that the way he did Doomsday. And it's doubly sure the Superman OF that earlier Doomsday era couldn't.
laughing out loud

It was editorial mandate for Supergirl to look stronger than Superman at first.

emu
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
If you subconsciously use only 10% of your strength and in extreme situations tap into more till the 100% like in OWAW where it boosted Superman to at least 10 times his normal self, it's both. This describes mental blocks.
So Superman hit his cap in owaw.

'At least ten times his normal self'

There's no dynamic strength anywhere in Supes history, apart from a few throw away lines in a few arcs to explain pis.
Being fans, you guys run with it. No problem with that, it is on panel.

But don't let lip service for the sake of a few story arcs confuse you as to what in character dynamic strength is. Hulk has it. He was born to it. Molded to it. Defined buy it.

That is dynamic strength, and without a certain story arc, Superman doesn't have it.

What he does have is a sundip thumb up

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Delta1938




As for the clips, I was groggy and whatnot when I saw them ...


Don't worry, buddy!

I am here for you!

The following clip even includes the 2nd of Superman's unexpected opening attacks on Kara!


You can watch it whenever your head clears for as long as YouTube let's it stay.

Enjoy!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-qQsLFC4Tcg

abhilegend
ermm

Nobody takes CW bullshit into account for such a garbage show.

bluewaterrider
I would swear Berlanti and company read some of the online debates fans like us have been having. Not content merely to have Kara beat Superman in a slugfest, they even make it clear Superman possessed all his physical strength during their trade off. While proof of THAT can be shown via YouTube clip:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F41HlVkg9bI

JBL
Originally posted by emu
This describes mental blocks.
So Superman hit his cap in owaw.

'At least ten times his normal self'

There's no dynamic strength anywhere in Supes history, apart from a few throw away lines in a few arcs to explain pis.
Being fans, you guys run with it. No problem with that, it is on panel.

But don't let lip service for the sake of a few story arcs confuse you as to what in character dynamic strength is. Hulk has it. He was born to it. Molded to it. Defined buy it.

That is dynamic strength, and without a certain story arc, Superman doesn't have it.

What he does have is a sundip thumb up 100% True. As for Superman getting 10 times his "normal" self??? LMAO!!! So superman at his normal self using only 10% of his strength is equal to a 100% CM and BA??? I tell you, superman fans need to leave this planet or share their mega drugs.LMAO!!

-Pr-
Yeah, be civil or don't post. That goes for everyone.

Originally posted by abhilegend
ermm

Nobody takes CW bullshit into account for such a garbage show.

I seem to recall you gushing about how great the portrayal of Superman was... mmm

abhilegend
Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah, be civil or don't post. That goes for everyone.



I seem to recall you gushing about how great the portrayal of Superman was... mmm
Yeah, and I was proven wrong.

-Pr-
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, and I was proven wrong.

laughing out loud

Don't worry, I think it's crap too. How shoe-horned it was too.

abhilegend
Originally posted by -Pr-
laughing out loud

Don't worry, I think it's crap too. How shoe-horned it was too.
Yeah, it's just hilarious about how every male hero gets chumped. J'onn? Gets his ass kicked everytime. Mon-El? Character assassination of the century. Superman appears only to praise Supergirl.

It's comical how hard they are trying with giving every Superman related story to Supergirl.

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