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Could Gladiator survive the DOS arc

Or would Glads fail to stop Doomsday?

Same Arc just replace Superman with Gladiator

Can Gladiator stop Doomsday's rampage?

He dies, just because of his confidence. If it wavers.....which I believe it can, then he's done for.

Gladiator doesn't have the showings to beat Doomsday

I think he can do that.

Dicksday gets carve(r)d up.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Dicksday gets carve(r)d up.

That was so clever

Gladiator fails and dies miserably trying to fill Superman's shoes.

Hurry up get Maxima in here!

Glads does a have a pretty significant speed advantage over anyone DD fought. During that period Supes couldn't even hit lightspeed... Hell I'm not 100% sure that the Flash could go FTL at that point.

Yes, that is why i said he could do that. He have a good speed advantage here.

Butt hurt thread. Gladiator boots DD into space or just simply planet destroy punch him to death. Something superman could never do.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Glads does a have a pretty significant speed advantage over anyone DD fought. During that period Supes couldn't even hit lightspeed... Hell I'm not 100% sure that the Flash could go FTL at that point.

Glads speed can be inconsistent, especially in combat.

He had that terrible showing when his travelling speed was nothing to admire even when much further enhanced by the Uni-power.

Anyway, according to Booster Gold, DoS Dicksday was faster than Flash...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Glads speed can be inconsistent, especially in combat.

He had that terrible showing when his travelling speed was nothing to admire even when much further enhanced by the Uni-power.

Anyway, according to Booster Gold, DoS Dicksday was faster than Flash...
Oh I know, that's why I didn't say "Glads stomps", I know his speed is inconsistantly portrayed. I suppose this fight comes down to whether or not a debater feels that speed should always be played up in forum fights despite it's frequency of use in comics or if they feel characters who don't blitz/dodge much in comcs should be considered to do it proportionately on the forum

Yeah but since was a one off and happened while powered up compared to multiple other portrayals I think it's pretty safe to put that one under the "PIS" category.

Very true, but lip service from a character who lacks super speed doesn't mean a whole lot. I remember a villain saying that Captain America's speed rivaled Quicksilvers right after fighting Pietro in fact. Even if it did, Flash wasn't nearly as fast back then as he is nowadays.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Gladiator fails and dies miserably trying to fill Superman's shoes.

Hurry up get Maxima in here! aww, the whittle baby butt hurt?? Wet me change those superman pull-ups. Better now whittle baby??

Originally posted by JBL
aww, the whittle baby butt hurt?? Wet me change those superman pull-ups. Better now whittle baby??

Shhhhhhh! Be quiet "superman expert"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So who has Gladiator defeated that is worth mentioning or that is on DOS level?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Glads does a have a pretty significant speed advantage over anyone DD fought. During that period Supes couldn't even hit lightspeed... Hell I'm not 100% sure that the Flash could go FTL at that point.
Is that so? Even pre DOS Superman has feats that shows his reflex speed is faster than nanosecond levels.

http://i.imgur.com/CzuWl2t.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GTZztCc.jpg

He actually had a long discussion with Deadman there at Superspeed.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14614807& amp;highlight=superman+Hal+time+dilation+userid%3A
133437#post14614807


Not an isolated instance either.

http://i.imgur.com/WbZ7tJj.jpg

Byrne Superman is not some weakling posters make him out to be.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is that so? Even pre DOS Superman has feats that shows his reflex speed is faster than nanosecond levels.

http://i.imgur.com/CzuWl2t.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GTZztCc.jpg

He actually had a long discussion with Deadman there at Superspeed.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14614807& amp;highlight=superman+Hal+time+dilation+userid%3A
133437#post14614807


Not an isolated instance either.

http://i.imgur.com/WbZ7tJj.jpg

Byrne Superman is not some weakling posters make him out to be.
I didn't say he was a weakling, I said he couldn't yet hit lightspeed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't say he was a weakling, I said he couldn't yet hit lightspeed.
That was more an editorial constraint than anything. He was still crossing solar systems in moments.

Good thing is that Gladiator has exactly zero feats for lightspeed combat unless you count his nanosecond fist raising against Hyperion.

Even then Superman is vastly faster than him and he was struggling to catch up with Doomsday in speed. Gladiator has nothing in his arsenal which can even hurt Doomsday.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That was more an editorial constraint than anything. He was still crossing solar systems in moments.

Good thing is that Gladiator has exactly zero feats for lightspeed combat unless you count his nanosecond fist raising against Hyperion.

Even then Superman is vastly faster than him and he was struggling to catch up with Doomsday in speed. Gladiator has nothing in his arsenal which can even hurt Doomsday.
He got teleportation tech from the Legion for space travel, you can't infer FTL travel based on him for that kind of thing unless it was stated or at least clearly implied. After all, it DID take quite a while for DD to reach Metropolis.

Glads dies and I doubt he will stop DD. Jane Thor would be the better choice.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He got teleportation tech from the Legion for space travel, you can't infer FTL travel based on him for that kind of thing unless it was stated or at least clearly implied. After all, it DID take quite a while for DD to reach Metropolis.
He got the teleporter from Hamilton because he could not breathe in space . But yeah, this isn't lightspeed travel.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/ChasingHenshaw1.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/ChasingHenshaw2.jpg

Neither is this.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He got the teleporter from Hamilton because he could not breathe in space . But yeah, this isn't lightspeed travel.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/ChasingHenshaw1.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/ChasingHenshaw2.jpg

Neither is this.



There's no time elapse given.

And from what I remember, he was using an oxygen mask and could hold his breath for quite a while. So if he was at risk of running out of air before he reached his destination it doesn't speak well for his speed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
There's no time elapse given.

And from what I remember, he was using an oxygen mask and could hold his breath for quite a while. So if he was at risk of running out of air before he reached his destination it doesn't speak well for his speed.
Yeah, he was flying for weeks to reach Saturn.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/YoungSupermanSpeed1.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/YoungSupermanSpeed2.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/YoungSupermanSpeed3.jpg

An out of breath Superman crossed entire solar system. Must be weeks too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, he was flying for weeks to reach Saturn.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/YoungSupermanSpeed1.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/YoungSupermanSpeed2.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/YoungSupermanSpeed3.jpg

An out of breath Superman crossed entire solar system. Must be weeks too.
You keep trying to extrapolate from things that are open to interpretation. Was it ever stated a single time during that period that he could go lightspeed or at least clearly depicted?

Keep in mind, my statement that he couldn't hit lightspeed is based on what I was told by an oldschool Supes fan named batdude123 from back in the day so I'm totally open to evidence to the contrary. It's just that I believe him more than I do you.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You keep trying to extrapolate from things that are open to interpretation. Was it ever stated a single time during that period that he could go lightspeed or at least clearly depicted?
Yes.

http://i.imgur.com/UEjGEfY.jpg

Next you will ask me to prove he can go FTL, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes.

http://i.imgur.com/UEjGEfY.jpg

Next you will ask me to prove he can go FTL, right?
Awesome, see now that's a good one. What issue/arc is it from?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Awesome, see now that's a good one. What issue/arc is it from?
Action Comics 621 or thereabouts.

Superman was still officially not able to go lightspeed until Mongul taught him how to break his mental blocks under Loeb. In essence him not able to fly that fast was him suppressing his powers, that's it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Action Comics 621 or thereabouts.

Superman was still officially not able to go lightspeed until Mongul taught him how to break his mental blocks under Loeb. In essence him not able to fly that fast was him suppressing his powers, that's it.
Ah. Then see, officially DOS Supes couldn't go lightspeed... why are you trying to argue against what you yourself admit?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't say he was a weakling, I said he couldn't yet hit lightspeed. Travel speed is irrelevant. He is capable of moving and fighting between nanoseconds. Yet he was explicitly pushing himself to keep up with Doomsday when it came to speed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Travel speed IS relevant in regards to something like a bullrush though. Sure. Or if Gladiator feels like running away. But when he stays there and tries to go h2h, he wouldn't have any advantage.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ah. Then see, officially DOS Supes couldn't go lightspeed... why are you trying to argue against what you yourself admit?
Because it's not relevant. Originally posted by darthgoober
Travel speed IS relevant in regards to something like a bullrush though.
Guy Gardner with yellow ring was there who could travel to the center of the universe by flying.

Doomsday pushed his shit in faster than you can say "blitz".

Originally posted by darthgoober
Depends, Glads bullrushing at top speed would make for one hell of an hit after all. As I said before, I suppose it depends on how much of a factor one considers speed to be in forum fights. One hit from a bullrushing Gladiator wouldn't even bother Doomsday, considering he's taken this without a scratch:
http://i.imgur.com/OjMRF7t.jpg

Now, with that said:
a). Show me Gladiator hitting top speed under forum distance
b). Show me Gladiator employing this tactic against opponents.

Speed is a factor, and Doomsday is faster. Combat speed is more relevant than travel speed, otherwise GLs would be kings.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Depends, Glads bullrushing at top speed would make for one hell of an hit after all. As I said before, I suppose it depends on how much of a factor one considers speed to be in forum fights.
Gladiator bull rushing at top speed couldn't even ko Heimdall. It's not about speed, Gladiator is just a pussy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because it's not relevant.
It IS relevant. My point was "Supes couldn't even go lightspeed back then" to which you basically countered "Yes he could, just not officially".

Originally posted by abhilegend
Guy Gardner with yellow ring was there who could travel to the center of the universe by flying.

Doomsday pushed his shit in faster than you can say "blitz".
He did just fly in going all out right out of the gate, he went in cocky and DD caught him by surprise because guy doesn't have actual super speed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Gladiator bull rushing at top speed couldn't even ko Heimdall.



And he was coming from galaxies away, so he had the distance to build the momentum.

Forum rules aren't that the combatants start galaxies away.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It IS relevant. My point was "Supes couldn't even go lightspeed back then" to which you basically countered "Yes he could, just not officially".


No, it is not. End of discussion.

And here I thought people like silver surfer who can fly fast have Superman levels of Superspeed.

That does not applies to green lanterns who are by far faster than Silver Surfer and Gladiator in flight speed?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Gladiator bull rushing at top speed couldn't even ko Heimdall. It's not about speed, Gladiator is just a pussy.


Hey, a great high end feat from Heimdell means nothing for DD unless DD has himself withstood such a thing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it is not. End of discussion.
Sure it is.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And here I thought people like silver surfer who can fly fast have Superman levels of Superspeed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That does not applies to green lanterns who are by far faster than Silver Surfer and Gladiator in flight speed?

Surfer's went FTL in combat and used superspeed... and yes, I know you refuse to acknowledge it so let's not bother derailing the thread with it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
As people frequently point out on the forum "durability against energy doesn't equate to durability against blunt force damage". We're talking about someone who can shatter a planet with 3 punches and can move at 100x lightspeed... that's one hell of an impact.

You seem to be under the impression that I'm saying that this tactic is representative of how I feel forum rules should be interpreted, but I'm not saying that. I'm saying that those who DO feel that speed should be factored in to the extreme degrees even if such an exact occurance never appeared on panel should support the notion. As you know I myself DON'T believe forum rules should be interpreted in such a way.
In Comic portrayals always trumps made up scenarios.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/5633099-thor2015015_int2-1.jpg

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/5633100-thor2015015_int2-2.jpg

Heimdall isn't even bloodied. "Planets don't hit back".

Going lightspeed or greater in space is irrelevant to fights. Because top speed doesn't equal acceleration ( instant speed).

For example, I can reach light speed if I accelerated 10m/s^2 from rest for
almost a year.

A character who can reach bullet speeds in a microsecond is far faster than a character who can reach 100x the speed of light in 1 minute in space.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey, a great high end feat from Heimdell means nothing for DD unless DD has himself withstood such a thing.
Are you telling us that Heimdall is more durable than Doomsday?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure it is.



Of course it isn't.
Heh, Green Lanterns have superior speed feats than Surfer in every category.

Come at me if you can. I liked how you didn't reply in Superman vs Surfer energy blasts thread BTW.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In Comic portrayals always trumps made up scenarios.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/5633099-thor2015015_int2-1.jpg

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/5633100-thor2015015_int2-2.jpg

Heimdall isn't even bloodied. "Planets don't hit back".
I don't see DD anywhere in that scan you page stretcher.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you telling us that Heimdall is more durable than Doomsday?
No I'm saying that unless DD has a similar showing that Heimdell has at least 1 blunt force durability feat that's better than DD's.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't see DD anywhere in that scan you page stretcher.


Heh, so much backtracking.

crylaugh

Is it better than say Silver Surfer who has never taken such a shot? Thanos? Galactus? Living Tribunal?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course it isn't.
Heh, Green Lanterns have superior speed feats than Surfer in every category.

Come at me if you can. I liked how you didn't reply in Superman vs Surfer energy blasts thread BTW.
If the discussion is whether or not Supes could go lightspeed during the period then him not officially being able do so obviously IS relevant.

Oh please abhi, no one wants to see you and I go back and forth about Surfer in any scenario that everyone and their dog knows will quickly devolve into you basically saying "NUH UH!" to every point I make. That's why I've decided to take mod advice and not engage you in your ridiculousness. Hell even this convo has nearly run it's course.

Originally posted by darthgoober
As people frequently point out on the forum "durability against energy doesn't equate to durability against blunt force damage". We're talking about someone who can shatter a planet with 3 punches and can move at 100x lightspeed... that's one hell of an impact.

You seem to be under the impression that I'm saying that this tactic is representative of how I feel forum rules should be interpreted, but I'm not saying that. I'm saying that those who DO feel that speed should be factored in to the extreme degrees even if such an exact occurance never appeared on panel should support the notion. As you know I myself DON'T believe forum rules should be interpreted in such a way. There is nothing ever specified, or even hinted at, that Doomsday suddenly has split durability against energy and blunt force. "The forum told me!!!" isn't an argument.

You didn't answer any of my questions. Where did Gladiator instantly achieve his top speed within .5 km, which is the distance the fight starts at? And furthermore, when has he employed this tactic , against who, and how successful was it? Up until now, we have Heimdall, and he failed miserably. Anything else? Because your case is really weak. Also, space cheese is irrelevant - you should know that by now, you've read comics for quite a while.

Byrne Superman was capable of punching with such force, that nothing in the Universe could stop it:
http://s738.photobucket.com/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/SupermanStrengthNoForce.jpg.html
He couldn't do shit to Doomsday, until he punched harder than he had ever done before.
I guess Doomsday >>> every force in the Universe.

--

It's hilarious that you brought up speed and it backfired so badly, that you're now moving away from combat speed, going into travel speed, and now you're about to lose that part, too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh, so much backtracking.
No backtracking, I'm still saying what I've been saying.

Originally posted by abhilegend
crylaugh

Is it better than say Silver Surfer who has never taken such a shot? Thanos? Galactus? Living Tribunal?
Yup, it absolutely is better than any blunt force durability feats that those three have shown on panel. A single such feat indicates nothing for a character.

Holy shit, is Goober arguing that Heimdall is now more durable than Doomsday?

What in the flying f*ck is happening?

Originally posted by darthgoober
If the discussion is whether or not Supes could go lightspeed during the period then him not officially being able do so obviously IS relevant.


Then it's good that it's not that here.
Of course, nobody wants to see me annihilate you again and again especially you.

I guess you will always run away from me.

You've made wrong turn to CBR then. Or traveled to KMC in 2008.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then it's good that it's not that here.
It is in the context in which it was originally brought up.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course, nobody wants to see me annihilate you again and again especially you.

I guess you will always run away from me.
Sure abhi, sure. You keep right on saying that and hoping that eventually folks will forget how you flopped in our BZ.

Wow! Gladiator has hit near light speed at a few feet from a machine that was going to fire radiation at him.lol. people need to learn about characters before posting.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No Goober's arguing that Heimdell has one durability feat that DD can't match. That doesn't mean that Heimdell is more durable because this forum take more than a single feat into consideration when examining characters.


But that's simply making the most idiotic assumption. Heimdall didn't just become class 500 or Juggernaut. He was still class 60 character who lost to Gladiator in a non speed used fight.

Gladiator has shit striking power is more like it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Forum standards absolutely ARE relevant to discussions that take place on the forum.

Again, I was never made speed out to be the deciding factor in this fight, I simply brought it up as a factor worth considering and then specified that it's relevance would likely depend on how someone typically views speed in regards to forum fights. You brought up speed because you thought it showed anything, and it backfired awfully.

What some members of the forum think about some characters has no relevance to Doomsday. You shouldn't have brought up Doomsday's split durability, if you couldn't prove it. You shouldn't have brought up Gladiator's speed advantage, when you couldn't prove it, and then you moved on to travel speed. You shouldn't have brought up Gladiator's travel speed bullrushing when you couldn't prove he can achieve top speed in 0.5 km, when you couldn't show a single example where this was effective, and when the example where he used it is exactly the opposite of what you're arguing, to the point that you're so backed into a corner, you're almost trying to debate that Heimdall is more durable than Doomsday, but then running away and saying one feat doesn't prove anything.

This is awful.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In Comic portrayals always trumps made up scenarios.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/5633099-thor2015015_int2-1.jpg

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/5633100-thor2015015_int2-2.jpg

Heimdall isn't even bloodied. "Planets don't hit back". Ego hit back.

Originally posted by abhilegend


But that's simply making the most idiotic assumption. Heimdall didn't just become class 500 or Juggernaut. He was still class 60 character who lost to Gladiator in a non speed used fight.

Gladiator has shit striking power is more like it.
I know Heimdall didn't become that uber, it's a one off feat that's really not worth considering.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I know Heimdall didn't become that uber, it's a one off feat that's really not worth considering. A showing that completely disapprove your stance, when you have NO other argument showing the opposite, is 'not worth considering'?

Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Dude, I wasn't pointing it out as a deciding factor to the forum as a whole. I specified as much early on. You seem to be arguing just to be arguing at this point because you wanting asking for proof of a standard that's regarded as being the "norm" on KMC. People say it all the time in regards to many characters such as Thanos and Surfer. Feel free to disagree with the standard or refuse to acknowledge it as the standards if you want, but an in depth debate on the matter is way more than I'm willing to invest on something so trivial. I don't really care about the other posters, though.

I mean, I can see it being general knowledge that somebody like Wonder Woman have split durability, but you can't apply that universally.

Anyway, I see you're not interested in going in depth, so ok.

---

Back to the original question,

The answer is no.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's a showing that's not supported by any other showing in his history, simple as that. But if you want to take it as gospel to mean that Heimdell can take hits of that level... well that's your choice I suppose lol

It shows Gladiator, using the tactic you brought up in this thread, can't even KO Heimdall, when he has galaxies worth of distance to build up momentum , and a much less durable opponent

This is how it goes.

Glads takes this punch and his head flies off to orbit.

http://img.youtube.com/vi/QOXJt2NKuUE/mqdefault.jpg

If somehow he survives this punch his confidence wanes with the following kick faster than JBL's legs looking at an Alpha male swinging his dick wearing a Superman t shirt in front of him and end of the fight

That was supposed to say "super speed punches from characters with super strength" but I can't edit it because of your damn name you SOB lol

Originally posted by darthgoober
Depends, Glads bullrushing at top speed would make for one hell of an hit after all. As I said before, I suppose it depends on how much of a factor one considers speed to be in forum fights.

You'd think, but after he did it to Heimdalll recently he got up and gave Gladiator a fight.

Oops, don't know if you did an edit or if I overlooked it Phil but I just caught that final part about Hemdall/Glads and I got to say I disagree. Glad's previous feats exist independently of his showing against Heimdall. If the showing is legit it means that Heimdall can take that kind of shot and has uber durability, it doesn't take away from what Gladz has shown himself capable of.

Personally I don't put much stock in it because it seems to fall well within the classic definition of SvFL.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
This is how it goes.

Glads takes this punch and his head flies off to orbit.

http://img.youtube.com/vi/QOXJt2NKuUE/mqdefault.jpg

If somehow he survives this punch his confidence wanes with the following kick faster than JBL's legs looking at an Alpha male swinging his dick wearing a Superman t shirt in front of him and end of the fight

You're so edgy Salsa.

Originally posted by Damborgson
You'd think, but after he did it to Heimdalll recently he got up and gave Gladiator a fight.
Which is a craz feat for Heimdall to be sure, but as I said it doesn't take away from what Glads has shown himself capable of or what the maginitude of such a shot should logically be. We have rules against one off showings of this caliber for a reason after all.

Originally posted by Damborgson
You're so edgy Salsa.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Which is a craz feat for Heimdall to be sure, but as I said it doesn't take away from what Glads has shown himself capable of or what the maginitude of such a shot should logically be. We have rules against one off showings of this caliber for a reason after all.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
This is how it goes.

Glads takes this punch and his head flies off to orbit.

Didn't know Glad's head was located in his solar plexus.

#themoreyouknow

i think glads would give it a good go and fall short. i think by the end of the fight both had surpassed glads.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And I'm not saying you should care about other posters, I was simply pointing out the forum standard. And while I still don't want to go into a huge in depth discussion about it, I'd like to point out that despite walking through that barrage of energy, Maxima was able to knock DD around physically so the same type of evidence does exist for DD that exists for other characters in regards to a difference in bluntforce and blasting ability. Now if you don't believe that's enough to suggest such a thing that's fine, I'm just pointing out that there is SOMETHING along those lines.

Now in regards to our discussion about speed, I knew at the outset that you weren't one of the ones who get crazy about speed. You've demonstrated as much by pointing out that super speed punches from characters with super speed don't seem to carry the same amount of "oomph" as single, non super speed punches.

And in regards to both of these topics, it's nearly impossible to address EVERYONE on the other side of the argument because opinions vary so much in a variety of ways amongst posters so you'll probably save yourself a bit of a headache if you stop assuming that I'm calling you out when I'm pointing out the faulty arguments of those who take things to an extreme. I mean we disagree on a lot of stuff... probably even MOST stuff... but there aren't a lot of times when I lump you in with the ones I normally take enough of an issue with to actually say something about. You're far closer to the likes of Juntai than you are abhi or H1 IMO.

Just because he was thrown around by Maxima's attacks, doesn't mean they had any actual effect on him. Because they didn't, and the arc makes it very clear that. Potency of an attack is not solely based on how hard one character gets thrown, or how much environment gets destroyed. High-powered characters hit themselves all the time, and they don't always fly across town, or stand in one place - it's an artistic license. He's not a flier - he can be thrown and he can be moved. But he can't be hurt. What, just because the energy attacks didn't move him, and Maxima did, it means there's different durabilities? You don't want to go down that rabbit hole. We both know you have no argument there, so don't try to slide in one.

Just because flurry of superspeed punches in comics are shown as being more ineffective than a single one, generally, doesn't mean that speed doesn't matter on the forum. That's a..quite a leap.

Also, I like abhi, and putting him in H1's basket is a b*tch-move. He has his arguments on him all of the time, and it's up for everybody to judge them, but he's more knowledgeable and evidence-based than 95% of the forum.

LOL!

Originally posted by darthgoober
It is in the context in which it was originally brought up.


And what context would that be?



Oh you and your alternate facts. Don't worry Goober, you and your cheerleaders can rest easy knowing you only begged for victory.

Originally posted by JBL
Ego hit back.
Gladiator vs Ego is non Canon.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I know Heimdall didn't become that uber, it's a one off feat that's really not worth considering.
Oh now it's not worth considering? But somehow Superman not being able to fly at lightspeed is?

Interesting way to discard a showing.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And I'm not saying you should care about other posters, I was simply pointing out the forum standard. And while I still don't want to go into a huge in depth discussion about it, I'd like to point out that despite walking through that barrage of energy, Maxima was able to knock DD around physically so the same type of evidence does exist for DD that exists for other characters in regards to a difference in bluntforce and blasting ability. Now if you don't believe that's enough to suggest such a thing that's fine, I'm just pointing out that there is SOMETHING along those lines.

Now in regards to our discussion about speed, I knew at the outset that you weren't one of the ones who get crazy about speed. You've demonstrated as much by pointing out that super speed punches from characters with super speed don't seem to carry the same amount of "oomph" as single, non super speed punches.

And in regards to both of these topics, it's nearly impossible to address EVERYONE on the other side of the argument because opinions vary so much in a variety of ways amongst posters so you'll probably save yourself a bit of a headache if you stop assuming that I'm calling you out when I'm pointing out the faulty arguments of those who take things to an extreme. I mean we disagree on a lot of stuff... probably even MOST stuff... but there aren't a lot of times when I lump you in with the ones I normally take enough of an issue with to actually say something about. You're far closer to the likes of Juntai than you are abhi or H1 IMO.
Oh you quanchi clone, you are making me blush comparing me to great H1.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The point was that he wasn't moved by the energy even though several of the characters energy carries some concussive force too. And since I don't think Maxima's punches put out more energy the all of their combined assault, it doesn't seem to me that energy attacks effect him as much as pure blunt force trauma. My point was simply that there's the arguement to be made.

I never said that speed doesn't matter, I said that you don't take it to the extreme. It was a compliment to you, not a shot against speed.

Well there's no accounting for taste. You're free to think he's better than H1 just as I'm free to think he's on H1 level. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise anymore than I'd try to convince you that my least favorite food tastes worse than your favorite food. If you prefer abhi then that's all good. No. There's no argument unless your argument is that her punch also did zero damage, just like the blasting, so her zero is equal to their zero.

It was clear in DOS, that the only blows that hurt him were the final ones.

.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The point was that he wasn't moved by the energy even though several of the characters energy carries some concussive force too. And since I don't think Maxima's punches put out more energy the all of their combined assault, it doesn't seem to me that energy attacks effect him as much as pure blunt force trauma. My point was simply that there's the arguement to be made.
Being moved, or not, by an attack, is not in any way evidence of how potent the attack is, or how much damage it makes. How in the world could you possibly say something this stupid? Superman's final all-out punches didn't move Doomsday across the area, I guess those punches are weaker than Maxima's, right?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/59/69/55/5969558126192eb83700d4219beadd55.jpg

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2016/03/28/28-doomsday-1.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.2x.jpg


---
https://trollmaggy.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/2417883-fnfmaximadoomsday3.jpg?w=760

Advice: learn how to give up an argument, when pushing further would only make you look like an idiot. I know you have an ego, but this type of stuff makes you look really, really bad.

Why does Philo always result to insults? It's like he does this to make himself look good when overall, it makes him look like an ass. Superman fans are some of the most aggressive debaters on the forum (except Juntai and Professor) and it does not do a thang to enhance their debating skills or posts. Anyways, Maxima was doing extremely well against Doomsday until plot got in the way. Would've loved seeing the ending result of that battle.

Originally posted by carver9
Why does Philo always result to insults?

Erectile dysfunction.

That's why we all get meaner with age, my friend.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Erectile dysfunction.

That's why we all get meaner with age, my friend.

Damn...why didn't I think of this? You're always on point bro, thanks.

Originally posted by carver9
Damn...why didn't I think of this? You're always on point bro, thanks.



Weak people do that to compensate for shortcomings. Which I guess is related.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh now it's not worth considering? But somehow Superman not being able to fly at lightspeed is?

Interesting way to discard a showing.
Hey I'm not the one who wrote the forum rules in regards to things like PIS and SvFL. I know you like to say that this isn't CBR and that's true... but it's also not Herochat.

Originally posted by Juntai
No. There's no argument unless your argument is that her punch also did zero damage, just like the blasting, so her zero is equal to their zero.

It was clear in DOS, that the only blows that hurt him were the final ones.
Originally posted by Juntai
.
Just because he didn't feel pain till Supes broke his bone protrusion doesn't mean that there wasn't a damage accumulation leading up to his finally being put down. DD's physiology is radically different than that of other organisms, for all we know his bone protrusions are the only places where he has functioning pain receptors.

Originally posted by darthgoober
the forum standard that durability showings against energy don't equate to showings against blunt force.

Isnt this the consensus?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Isnt this the consensus?
Yup. Phil's suggesting that DD should be an exception to it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
They were already beaten to a pulp prior to those punches. Just sayin..

There are around seven pages between the end of the fight and the knock out punches. Within that time, the two gods participate in conversation, laugh and kiss and grab a** to release the Phoenix. They appear quite recovered.

Lol. They are still bleeding from the arrows etc that the Asgardians had thrown at them.

Otherwise, Kid Gladiator also KOd a Skyfather.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yup. Phil's suggesting that DD should be an exception to it.

Lol Phil is trolling. Best to ignore him

Originally posted by TheHulkster
There are around seven pages between the end of the fight and the knock out punches. Within that time, the two gods participate in conversation, laugh and kiss and grab a** to release the Phoenix. They appear quite recovered.

Those Shiar gods were like trans maybe? Their showings were all over the place. Getting one shot by kid gladiator (tripped by his body guard) doesnt help either

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just because he didn't feel pain till Supes broke his bone protrusion doesn't mean that there wasn't a damage accumulation leading up to his finally being put down. DD's physiology is radically different than that of other organisms, for all we know his bone protrusions are the only places where he has functioning pain receptors.
Doomsday was specially not hurt by any of the previous attacks by Superman. Not just pain.

Originally posted by abhilegend


PIS and SVFL? What is this, 2008?
No it's KMC

Originally posted by abhilegend
Doomsday was specially not hurt by any of the previous attacks by Superman. Not just pain.
He meant hurt as in feeling pain. This was indicated by DD screaming when he broke the protrustion.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Weak people do that to compensate for shortcomings. Which I guess is related.



Seems like they have issues going on in life and they throw it at people online to make themselves feel better. I will never understand people like that.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
They were already beaten to a pulp prior to those punches. Just sayin..

What does that have to do with anything when we have Thor hitting one before Gladiator punch and it doing nothing...nothing close to what Gladiator did.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. They are still bleeding from the arrows etc that the Asgardians had thrown at them.

Otherwise, Kid Gladiator also KOd a Skyfather.

You mean they still may have some blood on their clothing. And yes, Kid G does.

Doomsday WAS hurt by supermans blows an WAS taking damage throughout the fight. I realize what this is leading up to. Lol. Superman fans will try anything to elevate supes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
After they were already beaten to shit by asgardians.




PIS and SVFL? What is this, 2008?

Thor hit one before Glads did and it did nothing.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
You mean they still may have some blood on their clothing. And yes, Kid G does.

So what proof do you have that they were 100%? Do they have HFs? Proof?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what proof do you have that they were 100%? Do they have HFs? Proof?

100% is their default mode. I'm not required to prove it. The onus of proof is on you.

On your basis, I can ask you to prove that Glads and Kid are 100%. Both of them take punishment.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No it's KMC
Those are no more relevant terms these days. Originally posted by darthgoober
He meant hurt as in feeling pain. This was indicated by DD screaming when he broke the protrustion.
No, hurt means being able to actually hurt Doomsday. Prior to that Superman was hurting his own hand trying to punch Doomsday.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Those are no more relevant terms these days.

Of course they are, PIS is still specifically mentioned in the rules in fact. I know that you'd prefer the mods did away with the term, but such is not the case.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, hurt means being able to actually hurt Doomsday. Prior to that Superman was hurting his own hand trying to punch Doomsday.
The statement was prompted by DD crying out in pain after having his bone broken... it's obvious what it meant. But if you want to hold fast to your denial then that's on you. More power to you.

Stop stretching the damn pages.

Originally posted by darthgoober
See, I disagree. I believe that his being totally unaffected by while there was some effect from by Maxima's punchs DOES support the notion that he's more resistant to energy. If you believe that being thrown around is proof of how much an attack affects Doomsday, then Superman not moving Doomsday even close to the level Maxima did proves Maxima > Superman. You can keep dodging that until you're blue, but let's not pretend that you have an argument. And I haven't even gotten into the literally hundreds of other examples of characters not being thrown tens of feet by other characters punching them, while others have done so, to the same character. This logic can show Aquaman > Darkseid, which is insane.

You keep going back to 'but teh forum!!', when that's not an argument. We treated it on case by case basis - and we know you have no case against Doomsday, other than inconsistent illogical positions.

Mohawk duo took punishment from the Destroyer.

The Shi'ar gods took a beating from Thor, The Destroyer, Cul, Hogun, Sif, Fandral, Hildegarde, The Thunderguard, fodder Asgardians, etc..

The father and son's beat down took place much earlier than the Shi'ar gods.

The Shi'ar gods were still depicted bloodied and bruised when father and son cheap shotted them.

Not at all comparable.

Originally posted by darthgoober
DD was getting stronger as the fight went on though, so Supes not moving him more doesn't mean that he was hitting with less force then Max. Doomsday got so powerful throughout the fight, that he advanced from being moved by Maxima to not even budging from Superman? It also shows, according to your own hilarious position, that Superman's output at the end went from not being able to move Doomsday with his punches, to killing him. Quite the dynamic power! I'll remember that - you better do, too, for later references.

Let's get back do dismantling your position. If sending people flying to your punches is a testament to greater output than when people aren't sent flying, you do realize that there are hundreds of examples in comics of Hulk punching people, or Superman punching people, or Thor punching people and not sending them flying? I can show Aquaman sending Superman flying, and Darkseid not, is Aquaman stronger than Darkseid? Hercules has punched Ares across the country, and I can show Thor's punches not doing it. Does that make Hercules much stronger than Thor? etc.

Just because Maxima moved Doomsday , it doesn't mean he is more resistant to energy, which didn't move him - if we apply that standard, then we get to the conclusions above . How can you not see how stupid your logic is?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Anyway, it's irrelevant. You can say that "we" treat it on a case by case basis but as Sin confirmened, it's just the general forum concensus. You're free to disagree of course, but don't blame me just because I base my assessments on the standards held by the majority of the forum.
Did you just use Sin to show an imaginary consensus regarding Doomsday having different durability to energy and blunt force, because you can't back up your own position?

Have you heard of debate fallacies? Today, I'll help you understand how to debate, goober.
Let's start with Argumentum ad populum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Here's what we're going to do:

I challenge you to a battlezone, to prove that Doomsday can take energy attacks better than blunt force attacks.

Take it?

You know, there might already be a thread like that in existence here in the vs forum and if so you don't even have to make your own, just bump the old one. You'll be able to go right in addressing the arguments people made previously and hit the ground running so to speak. You'll find it easier to build enough momentum to actually sway people if you counter the most popular arguments right out of the gate like that.

Originally posted by darthgoober
BZ? I already said I had no desire to do any kind of in depth arguement on this lol. Hell this little interaction we've had has already wasted more time that I'd originally intended. Ok. I'll go talk to that guy you keep mentioning, 'forum consensus' I believe his name is, who will surely show proof that Doomsday is specifically less durable against physical force than energy attacks, because he was moved by one and not the other.

Have a nice night, goob.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Good luck in your endeavors. I'll check your thread periodically after it's posted and see how well you're doing

Hopefully the 'forum consensus' guy can actually back up an individual opinion, based on a specific character in discussion, instead of fallacies and generalizing in order to muddle the argument.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Mohawk duo took punishment from the Destroyer.

The Shi'ar gods took a beating from Thor, The Destroyer, Cul, Hogun, Sif, Fandral, Hildegarde, The Thunderguard, fodder Asgardians, etc..

The father and son's beat down took place much earlier than the Shi'ar gods.

The Shi'ar gods were still depicted bloodied and bruised when father and son cheap shotted them.

Not at all comparable.

You forgot to add that Thor hit them before Gladiator did and it did next to nothing.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Of course they are, PIS is still specifically mentioned in the rules in fact. I know that you'd prefer the mods did away with the term, but such is not the case.


That doesn't means you can dismiss anything you don't like. It isn't 2008 anymore.

Yes, it is obvious for anyone with least bit of intelligence. "Finally I managed to hurt him" doesn't means "Oh I've been hurting him but not made him feel pain"

That's just stupid.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Glads dies and I doubt he will stop DD. Jane Thor would be the better choice. Better choice alright
Jane nukes DD

This would be a good fight, give it to Glads more often than not.

How and why?

In a comic I could see Gladiator lasting for about 12 panels (2-3 pages) if they were to fight non stop without a teams involvement like Superman had. I think that's being fair to both characters. Ultimately, Doomsday would eventually overcome him and beat him to death.

Originally posted by Stoic
In a comic I could see Gladiator lasting for about 12 panels (2-3 pages) if they were to fight non stop without a teams involvement like Superman had. I think that's being fair to both characters. Ultimately, Doomsday would eventually overcome him and beat him to death.

Doomsday couldn't even beat Booster Gold to death. Slamming the car door on him did more damage than his fist.

http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii265/scanscans/?action=view&current=dos14.jpg

And booster had not shields up, at all. This was his natural durability and no one in their right mind would say Doomsday held back because he doesn't know how to hold back.

like Hulk failing to KO Beast and Wolvy

Or Miek

Or normal Iron Man
Captain America

List goes on

Didn't Spidy also fought Hulk at one time?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or Miek

He punched holes in Miek and Miek was said to be Savage Hulk level.

Originally posted by SquallX
Or normal Iron Man
Captain America

List goes on

Didn't Spidy also fought Hulk at one time?

Are you implying he was trying to kill these people. We have seen Hulk shred Ironman armor like butter. We have even seen Ironman amp up ending with him getting one punched by Hulk. Lol...Hulk would never attempt to kill Cap. Try harder.

I don't even want to know what trollsaint said.

Originally posted by carver9
He punched holes in Miek and Miek was said to be Savage Hulk level.


Really? That must be some weakass savage hulk.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Really? That must be some weakass savage hulk.

I guess but punching holes in someone vs Doomsday going all out on Booster and physically doing nothing is two completely things. If Doomsday would've punched a hole clean through Booster, we wouldn't be having this argument right now. Booster living through it is the ft but none of that happened. Miek living through getting his stomach punched out speaks for the character, not against Hulk.

Hulk literally stomped a hole in him.

http://s278.photobucket.com/user/DRDOOMSDAY-360/media/marvel%20universe/mighty%20thor/hulk/HulkfightssomeofhisWarboundandownsM.jpg.html

Originally posted by carver9

I don't even want to know what trollsaint said.

Yes. I'm the one saying that DoS Doomsday was Booster Gold level, without his shields. I'm the troll here, lol.

Reported.

Everybody stop the nonsense and get back to the thread topic without the trolling.

Darksaint beautifully owned again. This is what you get for being yellow biscuits

One day, Stilt, you'll realise how you got those bruises.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't means you can dismiss anything you don't like. It isn't 2008 anymore.
I know, it means that the term actually has to apply... and in this particular case it does. Either Heimdell is capable of taking a shot of that magnitude or the showing should be thrown out. Glad's previous feats exist independently of his showing against Heimdell, you don't downgrade Glads abilities because Heimdell to a shot that he shouldn't have been able to.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, it is obvious for anyone with least bit of intelligence. "Finally I managed to hurt him" doesn't means "Oh I've been hurting him but not made him feel pain"

That's just stupid.
Hurt doesn't just mean to cause damage, it also means to cause pain. Supes did something new(IE broke his bone protrusion) and DD cried out in pain. That cry of pain is what prompted Supes's statement. Therefor the statement doesn't mean that there wasn't an accumulation of damage up till that point.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or Miek

Yea. That little pip squeak Miek.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6b/52/40/6b52409bf65afcc9a6f4a76889ede623.jpg

Was that after he had been mutated?

Because he looks nothing like in WWH.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I know, it means that the term actually has to apply... and in this particular case it does.

By whose decree? Yours? If yes, then show us these impressive bullrushing feats from Gladiator that makes this PIS or whatever nonsense you are spouting.

Shot of what magnitude? The writer obviously thought he can.

Yes, they do but so does this showing. You can't chose one and leave others out.

By that token Surfer should stomp the shit out of someone like Thanos on forums but he doesn't.

I wonder why.

Where was that stated? Would you be kind enough to prove this idiocy?


No, Superman stating that he was finally able to hurt him does that. He didn't say that because Doomsday expressed pain.

That's neither stated nor implied. Get this shit out of here or prove it.

Well, Gladiator TRYING to kill Thor, didn't exactly....well, do much with his bullrush:

https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111227601/5711771-gladiator+vs+thor+2.jpg

I mean, Masterson is still joking around, lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
By whose decree? Yours? If yes, then show us these impressive bullrushing feats from Gladiator that makes this PIS or whatever nonsense you are spouting.

Shot of what magnitude? The writer obviously thought he can.

Yes, they do but so does this showing. You can't chose one and leave others out.

By that token Surfer should stomp the shit out of someone like Thanos on forums but he doesn't.

I wonder why.
See now you're trying to put the onus on Glads but it's not. We know Glad's strength level and we have at least some indication of how fast he was moving... does Heimdell have any other feats to suggest that he should be able to take a shot of that magnitude and keep going?

I'm not denying that this showing exists, I'm suggesting that it's invalid in accordance with forum rules.


Originally posted by abhilegend
Where was that stated? Would you be kind enough to prove this idiocy?

No, Superman stating that he was finally able to hurt him does that. He didn't say that because Doomsday expressed pain.

That's neither stated nor implied. Get this shit out of here or prove it.
It's stated in the definition of the word... look it up.

He absolutely said that because of DD's cry of pain. It's not like he got some kind of psychic flash about it all of the sudden. But hey, if you want to play the denial game go right ahead.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, Gladiator TRYING to kill Thor, didn't exactly....well, do much with his bullrush:

https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111227601/5711771-gladiator+vs+thor+2.jpg

I mean, Masterson is still joking around, lol.
Thor's more durable than Heimdell and there's no way of knowing that Glads was moving as fast as he was against Heimdell.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Yea. That little pip squeak Miek.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6b/52/40/6b52409bf65afcc9a6f4a76889ede623.jpg
Yeah that Miek who was powered up by Chaos King and still lost to Amadeus Cho of all people.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Thor's more durable than Heimdell and there's no way of knowing that Glads was moving as fast as he was against Heimdell.

Ok?

My point was that Gladiator, specifically out to kill Thor, was unable to even give him pause.