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DCEU versions, both at their strongest.

Round 1: Pure h2h combat. Diana has no armor, Superman has no flight. Let's take away Superman's cape too for good measure.

Round 2: Both in full costume/armor. Diana gets all her gear, Superman can use all his powers.



Combatants know nothing about each other but are fighting to the death.

Diana probably kills him first.

Diana wins

Kal loses

Superman wins round 1.

Diana round 2 for now.

C'mon people, I'd like to hear WHY you think Kal or Diana wins.

Well if Diana's braclet's can are capable of doing the reflective kamehameha thing that she did to repel Ares attack then I'm not sure what Superman can do with that.

Though Superman decisively wins round 1 due to the combat speed/strength advantage IMO.

1. Superman 10/10.

He's physically vastly superior, and has already fought trained fighters and beat them . She can't even hurt him, when Zod was unable to do any visible damage.

2. Superman 7/10.

She'll be able to get some wins with the sword, assuming she tags him enough times. Most of the time he'll just overwhelm her.

^ But during the final fight in Wonder Woman, she seemed to display some great degree of super speed. Seemingly teleporting almost.

I haven't seen the movie yet and probably wont until tomorrow(busy working) however from everything I've heard on this board and others it seems that some people are letting the fact the DC finally made a good movie color their opinion on how impressive these feats really are.

That said, from reading between the lines of people's posts(both sides) WW is probably going to be around Thor/Hulk level, possibly slightly above, which is fine with me as WW is one of my favorite characters.

Originally posted by FrothByte
^ But during the final fight in Wonder Woman, she seemed to display some great degree of super speed. Seemingly teleporting almost. She has super speed, yes. But even in her all-out speedblitz at the end on the soldiers, they were still perceiving her, and it was the inferior version to what Faora was doing.

^ When the kryptonians move in super speed, you still see them blur. You couldn't even see a blur with Wonder Woman. She's there one moment and gone the next. Almost teleporting. I'm not saying she's faster, just that you can't assume that Faora is faster either.

Originally posted by FrothByte
^ When the kryptonians move in super speed, you still see them blur. You couldn't even see a blur with Wonder Woman. She's there one moment and gone the next. Almost teleporting. I'm not saying she's faster, just that you can't assume that Faora is faster either. We could clearly see Diana moving against the soldiers, and they were reacting to her. She was using super-speed, but it's not even close to this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111124037/3441652-ibefzmqcb9qe11.gif

I also notice you're stuck on speed. I take it you're in agreement Superman is far stronger and durable, no? Or do you want to compare there, too?

Wonder Woman seemed pretty close in speed to the Kryptonians (on foot at least), from what I saw. But Kryptonians had better flight speed, whereas Wonder Woman had better pure reflex feats IMO, like the countless bullets she casually deflected at various points in the film. Superman is definitely physically stronger and more durable though.

Considering WW seemed to get an upgrade during the final fight I don't think it's fair yet to assume she's that far behind physically. I'll have to rewatch the Doomsday fight, ugh.

@Vault are you talking about Diana casually deflecting (3 or 4?) handguns shooting at pointblank? That was insane.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
@Vault are you talking about Diana casually deflecting (3 or 4?) handguns shooting at pointblank? That was insane.

Yeah, the Germans jumping her and Steve Trevor in the alley is a great example, because they were literally right on them, but she also did quite a bit of bullet deflecting on the battlefield and towards the end of the film. Her reflexes/reaction speed is pretty ridiculous.

That's because I don't deny that Superman is stronger and more durable. But I do think Diana has the advantage in combat speed and fighting skill, which is why I believe this makes a good match.

Round 1: Pure h2h combat. Diana has no armor, Superman has no flight. Let's take away Superman's cape too for good measure.

Round 2: Both in full costume/armor. Diana gets all her gear, Superman can use all his powers.

Kal is no slouch in h2h. He has bullet speed reflexes. He ended up besting 3 krypotnians. Can match doomsdays strength. Fought the WE weakened, and survived a nuke just to name some of his feats.

So his speed, strength and durability are no question.

He will end up taking hits due to the nature of the fight and how cis/pis has always shown but in the end I see a neck snap or pure KO, or straight up submission.

WW will land hits but they are not kryptonian level / doomsday level strength hits that he already took and didn't do anything to him.

The only real way to stop him is with Kryptonite. As its his only weakness shown up to this point.

Her skin is subject to being damaged, his heat vision can cut her. All he would have to do is get his hands on her long enough to snap her neck, or push his heat vision through her head, or just punch a hole through her.

While WW is very bad ass she lacks the durability and strength that Superman has in spades.

I see the fight lasting for less time then the Ares fight as he was trying to get her to join him.

Wondy is a good fighter and strong as shit but Super is stronger, faster and way more durable, he wins both after a great fight

Originally posted by Silent Master
I haven't seen the movie yet and probably wont until tomorrow(busy working) however from everything I've heard on this board and others it seems that some people are letting the fact the DC finally made a good movie color their opinion on how impressive these feats really are.

That said, from reading between the lines of people's posts(both sides) WW is probably going to be around Thor/Hulk level, possibly slightly above, which is fine with me as WW is one of my favorite characters. If she's only around Thor or Hulk level Superman would effortlessly win.

Cool story, bro.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If she's only around Thor or Hulk level Superman would effortlessly win. This. Supes would stomp both Thor and Hulk at the same time. It's unlikely WW is only around their level considering all the people ITT giving her the win.

I haven't seen the movie yet either, though I plan to soon. I'll chime in at that point.

Having now seen the movie, lol @ WW beating Supes. Supes would wreck both her and Ares at the same time. People are overselling the chit out of her.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Having now seen the movie, lol @ WW beating Supes. Supes would wreck both her and Ares at the same time. People are overselling the chit out of her.

She has better combat speed feats than Superman and far better fighting skill, plus the limits of her strength are not known yet. We do know she can jump as far/high as Faora does. So strength should be similar.

So I don't see how you think Superman will wreck her. Regardless of who wins, this will still be a fight.

Wonder Woman having better fighting skill, sure however better combat speed is debatable especially when taking Superman's flight into consideration.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Wonder Woman having better fighting skill, sure however better combat speed is debatable especially when taking Superman's flight into consideration.

Flying speed or even movement speed obviously goes to Superman. When I say combat speed, Diana has feats of blocking multiple bullets using her arms. Superman has no feats that compare to that. Superman dashes to and fro but doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed. That's what I mean by combat speed.

Hm, Is supes jelly because of this?

https://68.media.tumblr.com/9671a9feef6321b5e75bebe6e58eb0ea/tumblr_inline_or678xlQhe1sw5t5v_540.gif

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Having now seen the movie, lol @ WW beating Supes. Supes would wreck both her and Ares at the same time. People are overselling the chit out of her. I know, right?

Originally posted by FrothByte
She has better combat speed feats than Superman and far better fighting skill, plus the limits of her strength are not known yet. We do know she can jump as far/high as Faora does. So strength should be similar.

So I don't see how you think Superman will wreck her. Regardless of who wins, this will still be a fight. She is, by similar scenes, slower than Faora. At that point, Faora had just started gaining powers. Superman beat both her and Nam-ek at the same time. Then went on to beat Zod, a soldier who trained all his life and who was even more powerful than Faora, by snapping his neck, while being completely undamaged at the end, even though he took attacks that Diana has never shown herself capable of replicating.

Wonder Woman doesn't have the strength feats to show she can even damage Superman, never mind beat him in hand to hand. Her only shot is the sword, and that's in round two.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Flying speed or even movement speed obviously goes to Superman. When I say combat speed, Diana has feats of blocking multiple bullets using her arms. Superman has no feats that compare to that. Superman dashes to and fro but doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed. That's what I mean by combat speed.

Not so, he caught a bullet at the same proximity. He was never put in a situation in where he needed to block multiple bullets from hitting someone.

Secondly, he doesn't need to block bullets like she does as he is bulletproof. Ares showed no such combat speed in which you are referring to but he had no problem landing hits on her.

Originally posted by Sable
Not so, he caught a bullet at the same proximity. He was never put in a situation in where he needed to block multiple bullets from hitting someone.

Secondly, he doesn't need to block bullets like she does as he is bulletproof. Ares showed no such combat speed in which you are referring to but he had no problem landing hits on her.

Correct. He never needed to, thus he never had the feats. When did he catch a bullet at same proximity? Also, Zod was hitting Superman even though none of them were moving at said combat speed.

That is incorrect, he does have the feat of catching a bullet. When did I speak of Zod hitting Superman? But since you bring it up, are you the judge of what combat speed is and what is not? If you are, who made you the judge of such feats and why is bullet blocking/ catching a combat speed feat but actual combat is not?

edit:

For example, according to you, two kryptonians fighting not combat speed, but blocking bullets is? If that is your metric, then you are confused what combat speed actually is.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Flying speed or even movement speed obviously goes to Superman. When I say combat speed, Diana has feats of blocking multiple bullets using her arms. Superman has no feats that compare to that. Superman dashes to and fro but doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed. That's what I mean by combat speed.

Does getting up from a sitting position, running forward 12 feet, and attempting a left haymaker count as a complex maneuver?


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111124037/3811450-5489339354-37062.gif

Because he did all of that in under a second.

Edit.
Also: https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/5127471-bvs-superman-catching-bullet-1.gif

Thank you, that does it.

That doesn't look like a bullet.

Good point, Looks like a rocket propelled grenade from Batman, even better then blocking a 1940's gun. Catching does require more acute fitness as well then a simple block.

IIRC those would actually be slower than even a 1930's era bullet, plus it's much bigger which would make catching it easier.

Originally posted by TheGrat1
Does getting up from a sitting position, running forward 12 feet, and attempting a left haymaker count as a complex maneuver?


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111124037/3811450-5489339354-37062.gif

Because he did all of that in under a second.

Edit.
Also: https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/5127471-bvs-superman-catching-bullet-1.gif

Nope, that's still just one big movement. Basically all he did was charge forward and punch. He didn't string together combinations or make different changes in direction, etc.

And yeah, that's not a bullet, which is why I don't recall him catching a bullet. Not saying it's an invalid feat, but surely you don't expect that to compare to WW blocking MULTIPLE bullets coming from different directions?

@ Froth ^What? It wasn't one big movement. It's not like he jumped at her. He took several steps to close the distance between himself and Faora.

Yes, that is a grenade not a bullet. Closest real world weapon clocks the muzzle velocity in at around 170 mph. It is the most similar feat I could find though, and the more important aspect is the ease with which the feat is performed.


Do these these satisfy your "complex maneuver" criteria?:
http://i.makeagif.com/media/6-08-2017/KidiOs.gif



Blitzes the warlord from 25 feet away and does it in a manner that Lois is unaffected. Has to disengage the warlord's arm from her neck and does it all before the guy can squeeze a trigger.


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/4534542-1.gif
Accelerating, sharp turns, and stopping on a dime.

I really wonder why people doubt Kal's speed on this forum, it's so obvious.

Originally posted by TheGrat1
@ Froth ^What? It wasn't one big movement. It's not like he jumped at her. He took several steps to close the distance between himself and Faora.

Yes, that is a grenade not a bullet. Closest real world weapon clocks the muzzle velocity in at around 170 mph. It is the most similar feat I could find though, and the more important aspect is the ease with which the feat is performed.


Do these these satisfy your "complex maneuver" criteria?:
http://i.makeagif.com/media/6-08-2017/KidiOs.gif



Blitzes the warlord from 25 feet away and does it in a manner that Lois is unaffected. Has to disengage the warlord's arm from her neck and does it all before the guy can squeeze a trigger.


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/4534542-1.gif
Accelerating, sharp turns, and stopping on a dime.

I really wonder why people doubt Kal's speed on this forum, it's so obvious.

To add to that, from the official Batman v Superman companion movie tie-in:

http://i.imgur.com/5YOnNno.jpg

From everything shown? Superman with utter ease. WW's only chance is the sword, and even then Supes wins the majority. Get back to me when WW tows an ocean liner across ice by walking and holding the anchor or shifts tectonic plates.

I knew this kind of WW wank would occur though. Her movie is by far the best that DC has done in their current movie universe, and a ton of people conflate a likeable protagonist in a good movie as being the toughest. The whole "the character who entertained me more wins in a fight!" objectivity be damned. I wonder what the excuse will be when the big bad in justice league wrecks the team and Superman shows up to save the day at the end and fights evenly with the big bad.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Nope, that's still just one big movement. Basically all he did was charge forward and punch. He didn't string together combinations or make different changes in direction, etc.

And yeah, that's not a bullet, which is why I don't recall him catching a bullet. Not saying it's an invalid feat, but surely you don't expect that to compare to WW blocking MULTIPLE bullets coming from different directions?

Catching a rocket propelled which is traveling at about 250-300fps isn't combat speed to you? And all of his other actual combat feats are not combat speed? Excuse me, but FOH. You never answered my question on who made you the judge of what is combat speed and what is not, and how blocking bullets is combat speed, but actual combat is not.

Originally posted by FrothByte
She has better combat speed feats than Superman and far better fighting skill, plus the limits of her strength are not known yet. We do know she can jump as far/high as Faora does. So strength should be similar.

So I don't see how you think Superman will wreck her. Regardless of who wins, this will still be a fight.

It would be a short fight, I am sensing a lot of Superman animus here, his strength vs hers is off the charts and he already fought someone who is faster then her.

She doesn't actually have better combat speed feats, you are classifying blocking bullets as combat speed, and actual combat as not. Facts elude you.

Originally posted by Sable
Catching a rocket propelled which is traveling at about 250-300fps isn't combat speed to you? And all of his other actual combat feats are not combat speed? Excuse me, but FOH. You never answered my question on who made you the judge of what is combat speed and what is not, and how blocking bullets is combat speed, but actual combat is not.

You must have reading comprehension problems. I never said Superman doesn't have combat speed, I said he doesn't have combat speed feats that compare to Wonder Woman's.

Catching ONE rocket canister is not the same as blocking MULTIPLE bullets coming at you from multiple directions. And bullets travel much faster than 300 fps.

Originally posted by Sable
It would be a short fight, I am sensing a lot of Superman animus here, his strength vs hers is off the charts and he already fought someone who is faster then her.

She doesn't actually have better combat speed feats, you are classifying blocking bullets as combat speed, and actual combat as not. Facts elude you.

I already proved WW had faster feats than Faora.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You must have reading comprehension problems. I never said Superman doesn't have combat speed, I said he doesn't have combat speed feats that compare to Wonder Woman's.

Catching ONE rocket canister is not the same as blocking MULTIPLE bullets coming at you from multiple directions. And bullets travel much faster than 300 fps.

I think you have actual comprehension in understanding what combat speed is. Its when people are in actual combat. I think you also have a understanding problem in what an actual fight is.

edit:

And for the record I never said "you said" that Superman didn't have combat speed feats.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I already proved WW had faster feats than Faora.

Just because you think "you" proved it, doesn't make it a fact. And no, Wonder Woman is not faster then Faora. The soldiers were still reacting to her, and Ares had no problem tagging her.

Originally posted by Sable
Just because you think "you" proved it, doesn't make it a fact. And no, Wonder Woman is not faster then Faora. She soldiers were still reacting to her, and Ares had no problem tagging her.

In the final fight, soldiers were frozen in time as WW mowed them down. When Faora blitzes, she leaves a blur. When WW blitzed Ares, she completely disappears.

Faora also got hit by none superspeed hits from Superman.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I already proved WW had faster feats than Faora. What are you even talking about? No, you haven't. The complete opposite has been proven in this thread - an all-out Diana has a less impressive speed feat against soldiers than Faora has.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In the final fight, soldiers were frozen in time as WW mowed them down. When Faora blitzes, she leaves a blur. When WW blitzed Ares, she completely disappears.

Faora also got hit by none superspeed hits from Superman.

No, the soldiers weren't frozen, they were visibly moving. The one that Diana grabbed was even struggling against her. Have you even seen the movie?

Originally posted by FrothByte
In the final fight, soldiers were frozen in time as WW mowed them down. When Faora blitzes, she leaves a blur. When WW blitzed Ares, she completely disappears.

Faora also got hit by none superspeed hits from Superman.

Ares landed plenty of hits on her. Are you really trying to say she's teleporting now or light speed?

Directors take and cinematography is different between Synder and Jenkins.

Flash leaves a blur in Justice League, and she isn't faster then Flash.

Originally posted by Sable
Ares landed plenty of hits on her. Are you really trying to say she's teleporting now or light speed?

Directors take and cinematography is different between Synder and Jenkins.

Flash leaves a blur in Justice League, and she isn't faster then Flash.

I don't think you watched the movie completely. At the very end when WW fully realizes her powers, she mows down soldiers who look frozen in time. She speed blitzes Ares. Both Faora and WW don't always move in super speed and have been hit by Superman and Ares at regular speeds. But those instances that they do move at super speed, WW had better feats... at least visually.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't think you watched the movie completely. At the very end when WW fully realizes her powers, she mows down soldiers who look frozen in time. She speed blitzes Ares. Both Faora and WW don't always move in super speed and have been hit by Superman and Ares at regular speeds. But those instances that they do move at super speed, WW had better feats... at least visually.

More people are saying you have not watched the movie then saying I have not. And like I said, Flash leaves a blur in Justice League and she isn't faster then him. Bottom line, you liked this movie more then MoS or BvS and thus your animus.

To compare:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111303655/5887094-5451408109-giphy.gif

You're lying when you say they're frozen in time. Please stop.
- we see the guy she grabs reaching for his neck
- we see bullets moving past her
- we see people falling in the background, and they're not statues

Now compare this to faora:

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131214045545/powerlisting/images/e/e3/Faora.gif

It's literally in the blink of an eye.

You really need to rewatch the movie. Let's not pretend we're blind.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't think you watched the movie completely. At the very end when WW fully realizes her powers, she mows down soldiers who look frozen in time.

I dont think YOU have watched the movie completely. At the very end when WW fully realizes her powers, she mows down soldiers who are NOT frozen in time.

@Philosophia - is there something different with the way you set up your profile? I can't seem to quote your posts.

Anyway to answer your post - we see the soldier reach for his neck because Wonder Woman holds on to him for an extended amount of time. The rest of the soldiers she one shots and none of them are reacting.

You're also comparing apples to organges, seeing as WW's scene is moving in slow motion whereas Faora's is regular time. Obviously we can see the bullets moving in WW's scene, because she's moving in slow motion... unless you think the regular soldiers around her normally move that slowly?

Had Faora's scene been done in slow motion there's no telling what we will see in how the soldiers react to her. To get an accurate comparison, you need to compare like scenarios. In which case WW fighting Ares in real time is a better comparison, where she disappears from one location and appears in another, without the kind of blur effect that Faora makes.

And again I point this BIG ELEPHANT OUT: WW can block multiple bullets coming her way from different direction. Superman and Faora have no such feats.

And just so we're clear, I actually think Superman wins this fight (thought with great difficulty) - due to durability and versatility, not through a speed advantage.

^ Only in the first round though, in the second he gets mutilated.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Anyway to answer your post - we see the soldier reach for his neck because Wonder Woman holds on to him for an extended amount of time. The rest of the soldiers she one shots and none of them are reacting.

You're also comparing apples to organges, seeing as WW's scene is moving in slow motion whereas Faora's is regular time. Obviously we can see the bullets moving in WW's scene, because she's moving in slow motion... unless you think the regular soldiers around her normally move that slowly?

Had Faora's scene been done in slow motion there's no telling what we will see in how the soldiers react to her. To get an accurate comparison, you need to compare like scenarios. In which case WW fighting Ares in real time is a better comparison, where she disappears from one location and appears in another, without the kind of blur effect that Faora makes.

And again I point this BIG ELEPHANT OUT: WW can block multiple bullets coming her way from different direction. Superman and Faora have no such feats.

And just so we're clear, I actually think Superman wins this fight (thought with great difficulty) - due to durability and versatility, not through a speed advantage.

The only slow motion in the clip I posted is the initial bullet she blocks - afterwards everything is in the real time. Look at people falling down in real time. Look at the guy grabbing his neck in real time. Jesus Christ, dude, how hard is it to understand a simple video? Both her and Faora's attack of the soldiers was in real time - the difference is that Diana's was much slower, and the soldiers unequivocally reacted to her.

Of course the soldiers can't defend themselves - they don't have superspeed and supers strength - they were blatantly shooting at her, what more could they do?. But your initial position was that the soldiers were frozen -- they were not. They were actively shooting at her , and they were also moving in the background . The soldier she had in her grip, while she was in full-on blitz, was grabbing his neck - if all her actions were happening as fast as you're desperately hoping they were, he wouldn't have the time to do anything. She barely moves a few feet and gets to punch just one other soldier in the time it took him to react and move his hands - clearly proving that she was nowhere near what Faora displayed, who took out 4 soldiers before they could even blink.

You're grasping at straws - take a step back, analyze the scene , and realize you're wrong. Faora's feat is much, much faster.

^ You really think WW was moving in real time in that clip? Jeeze dude, professional fighters move faster than that in real time. Heck, I can move faster than that in real time. Are you telling me that WW only moved that fast and yet none of the soldiers could properly block or dodge her attacks? That's just plain dumb. I think it's quite obvious that WW was shown to be moving much faster than the soldiers, thus in slow motion. You only think she's moving in real time because that's how fast she is, that she looks moving in real time when everything else around her looks slow. It's quite obvious when you look at how much ground she covers.

Now if there is any inconsistency on how soldiers fall, that's an inconsistency in cinematography. You're still neglecting to address the fact that Faora leave a blur when she moves in superspeed whereas Diana seemed to appear and disappear a few times against Ares. Address this please.

Besides this is moot, since Faora's feats are not the same as Superman's. Faora has been demonstrated to perform more complex speed feats than Superman has.

Originally posted by FrothByte
@Philosophia - is there something different with the way you set up you
And again I point this BIG ELEPHANT OUT: WW can block multiple bullets coming her way from different direction. Superman and Faora have no such feats.



Does Wonder Woman have a gun in this fight with krptonian bullets?

Originally posted by FrothByte


Now if there is any inconsistency on how soldiers fall, that's an inconsistency in cinematography. You're still neglecting to address the fact that Faora leave a blur when she moves in superspeed whereas Diana seemed to appear and disappear a few times against Ares. Address this please.



Flash leaves a blur behind him, does that mean Wonder Woman is faster then Flash? Smallville Clark left a blur behind him, which is why he was called the "red/blue blur" does that mean Wonder Woman is faster then he is? It appears you are trying to determine directors intent, which is not up to you.

edit:

KzS3o2YvaEs

Originally posted by FrothByte
You only think she's moving in real time because that's how fast she is, that she looks moving in real time when everything else around her looks slow. No, nothing around her is slowed down. The soldiers are all shown looking at their normal speed - the ones who fall , the ones that are hit, and first and foremost, the one who she grabbed. Unless you think that the soldier she grabbed by the neck and who reacted to that grabbing by putting his hands in defense in the time she covered just a few feet and punched another soldier, is somehow Wally West in disguise thrown back in time - then no, it's not slowed down.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Now if there is any inconsistency on how soldiers fall, that's an inconsistency in cinematography. I'm sorry to break this to you, but it's not the cinematography - it's you.

You're wrong, and it's quite painful to move on with this discussion, when it's so blatantly obvious that you have no argument.


Originally posted by FrothByte
You're still neglecting to address the fact that Faora leave a blur when she moves in superspeed whereas Diana seemed to appear and disappear a few times against Ares. Address this please. Are you now randomly pulling arguments out of your ass? Flash leaves a blur, is he slower than Diana? Diana leaping out of Ares' attacks way, and then leaping to attack him, is not suddenly prove that she is faster than goddamn Flash. Leave it, man. This is pathetic.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Besides this is moot, since Faora's feats are not the same as Superman's. Faora has been demonstrated to perform more complex speed feats than Superman has. Faora had barely developed her powers, she couldn't even fly, or use heat vision. To argue that she, a barely developed kryptonian under a yellow sun, is faster than Superman, who had spent his whole life absorbing sunlight, is absolute craziness. Especially since she needed Nam-Ek's help to fight Superman, and even then they lost.

What are you even doing here? This is not debating, you're just throwing random shit at the wall.

"B-b-but the cinematography!"
"B-b-but the blur!"
"B-b-but I want Superman"

You should probably move on by now.

He argues inconsistency cinematography when it helps him, but trys to avoid addressing the director chosen cinematography between Synder and Jenkins. He is also arguing that a blur means someone is slower. This is just called bias, plain and simple.

Originally posted by Sable
He argues inconsistency cinematography when it helps him, but trys to avoid addressing the director chosen cinematography between Synder and Jenkins. He is also arguing that a blur means someone is slower. This is just called bias, plain and simple.

I'm not really interested in debating non-arguments and grasping at straws, so unless something new is brought up , I stand by Superman 10/10 in the first, and 7-8/10 in the second.

I haven't read the thread yet, but if this statement is indicative of the quality of discussion in here I'm not sure I should bother.

I decided to rewatch this scene immediately upon reading this post, and what I see is: Faora dancing around Clark in their 1v1, Faora and Namek running a rape train on Clark when they double-team him, Faora getting distracted by the military while Clark beats up Namek 1v1, and while Faora is villain monolouging to Law and Order Guy Clark LITERALLY sucker-punches her from behind and breaks her mask, which ends the fight immediately because she's suffocating in Earth's atmosphere.

In what possible world does this constitute as "Superman beat them both at the same time"?

Edit-sorry if there's any typos here. I have to type all this on a tablet and KMC hates my tablet for some reason. I can't even see the entirr top half of the site at any given time lol

Originally posted by Tzeentch
I haven't read the thread yet, but if this statement is indicative of the quality of discussion in here I'm not sure I should bother. The X is in the top corner of the tab, fyi

The discussion has nothing to do with Superman beating both of them btw, it's centered around Faora > WW in speed. But you wouldn't know that, since a single line triggered you out of the thread.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
I decided to rewatch this scene immediately upon reading this post, and what I see is: Faora dancing around Clark in their 1v1, Faora and Namek running a rape train on Clark when they double-team him, Faora getting distracted by the military while Clark beats up Namek 1v1, and while Faora is villain monolouging to Law and Order Guy Clark LITERALLY sucker-punches her from behind and breaks her mask, which ends the fight immediately because she's suffocating in Earth's atmosphere.

In what possible world does this constitute as "Superman beat them both at the same time"? Interesting - is your method of watching movies looking at a scene, taking a nap, waking up and looking at it again, then going back to sleep, and filling the gaps with whatever suits you? Here - let me fill some holes for you there:

- Faora starts strong , remarking on how Clark is unsure of himself, limited by his sense of morality, but as the fight advances she starts getting punched around, Nam-Ek intervenes on her behalf by sucker punching Superman
- They tag-team him, Superman treats Faora as a nuisance while he is on his back, blocking her attacks and twice putting her down, then literally uses her as a battering ram to get Nam-Ek off, grabs her to fly away, but he is pinned down
- He stops Nam-Ek's punch with one hand, and heat visions them both off of him.
- the army intervenes
- Superman saves the soldier from the falling helicopter and gets sucker punched again by Nam-Ek, but still beats him down.
- finally, hits her just before she kills the Colonel, breaking her mask.

If it sounds better for you, he is superior to either of them individually, and had an interrupted fight with them together, which started with a sucker punch . The fact that he needed one more strike to destroy her mask shows that if not for the army, he would have won against both of them either way.

Not too bad for literally his first fight against ruthless highly trained kryptonian soldiers.

^ Uh...so not to say that WW is faster than Superman but I think that it should be brought up that in addition to her own movie she still has her fight against Doomsday to pull from. Also, as far as Round 2 goes, WW was able to block Doomsday attacks with her shield including the heat vision which we know is better than Superman's own.

Also why is Smallville Clark being brought into this?

Superman stomps imo. TBH, he could kill her with a blast of heat vision or a solid punch unless she ends up getting a serious durability upgrade.

It's weird how people will shit on Superman's combat speed when his fights feature him zipping through an entire city with sharp turns and breakneck maneuvers while brawling with Zod before taking the fight into outer space in moments, and his opponents in the thread's fights almost invariably do not.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's weird how people will shit on Superman's combat speed when his fights feature him zipping through an entire city with sharp turns and breakneck maneuvers while brawling with Zod before taking the fight into outer space in moments, and his opponents in the thread's fights almost invariably do not.

Indeed, Superman hate is real. From this thread, I am convinced people go to the movies now with the express intent on figuring out a way to low ball any Superman feat and want any lesser feat because the movie might be better overall.

I still have not seen Hulk or Thor or Diana traverse the planet in seconds, or pull an ocean liner through the ice or catch an exploding space rocket or survive a nuke and live to tell about it.

edit: spelling

Not sure how they compare to a nuke, but the bifrost explosion and the AOU blast we're both fairly impressive

Originally posted by emporerpants
From everything shown? Superman with utter ease. WW's only chance is the sword, and even then Supes wins the majority. Get back to me when WW tows an ocean liner across ice by walking and holding the anchor or shifts tectonic plates.

I knew this kind of WW wank would occur though. Her movie is by far the best that DC has done in their current movie universe, and a ton of people conflate a likeable protagonist in a good movie as being the toughest. The whole "the character who entertained me more wins in a fight!" objectivity be damned. I wonder what the excuse will be when the big bad in justice league wrecks the team and Superman shows up to save the day at the end and fights evenly with the big bad.

Indeed sable, indeed.

Also, much of the lowballing is plain ol' fashioned hating on Supes. It can't really be denied that there is a dedicated Supes hate squad here. The real question is why these people hate Supes so much.

^ Actually, we're just calling it as is. Superman flies fast but he doesn't fight fast. After all, he got tagged by Doomsday more often than Doomsday tagged WW. A lot of Superman fans seem unwilling to acknowledge that MOS Superman is not the same as comic Superman or even Donner Superman.

Except you've been shown scenes of him fighting at super speed. Of catching things at super speed. Of moving and reacting at super speed. Of a movie description talking about his reflexes. Not to mention it is quite frankly stupid at worst and intellectually dishonest at best to say that he can move and change directions and react at super speed, but not fight at super speed. Seriously.

Also, WW got tagged plenty, or did you not see her get smacked around? Difference is she used her shield. Also, in her movie she got tagged by things. In addition, flash gets tagged all the time. Does that mean he is slow? Of course not, the story needs him to get tagged. Getting tagged by a slower opponent does not mean someone doesn't have super speed. You should know that. If you have watched literally anything super hero related, you really should know that.

Originally posted by FrothByte
^ Actually, we're just calling it as is. Superman flies fast but he doesn't fight fast. After all, he got tagged by Doomsday more often than Doomsday tagged WW. A lot of Superman fans seem unwilling to acknowledge that MOS Superman is not the same as comic Superman or even Donner Superman.

This just isn't true. Wonder Woman got tagged plenty by Doomsday and by Ares. MoS fights faster then Donner Superman, who are you trying to kid here?

Originally posted by emporerpants
Except you've been shown scenes of him fighting at super speed. Of catching things at super speed. Of moving and reacting at super speed. Of a movie description talking about his reflexes. Not to mention it is quite frankly stupid at worst and intellectually dishonest at best to say that he can move and change directions and react at super speed, but not fight at super speed. Seriously.

Also, WW got tagged plenty, or did you not see her get smacked around? Difference is she used her shield. Also, in her movie she got tagged by things. In addition, flash gets tagged all the time. Does that mean he is slow? Of course not, the story needs him to get tagged. Getting tagged by a slower opponent does not mean someone doesn't have super speed. You should know that. If you have watched literally anything super hero related, you really should know that.

According to him, it only counts when Superman gets hit by someone, but if Wonder Woman gets hit by someone well its "cinematography inconsitencies." Either this guy is blind, or he is just purposely misrepresenting characters.

Nobody has ever denied that Superman has some level of superspeed. it's just that Superman fans can't tell the difference between throwing punches while flying and things like reading a book while everyone around you is frozen in time.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's weird how people will shit on Superman's combat speed when his fights feature him zipping through an entire city with sharp turns and breakneck maneuvers while brawling with Zod before taking the fight into outer space in moments, and his opponents in the thread's fights almost invariably do not.

Did the math, he was travelling at 67,500 mph. <+/- 475mph>

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nobody has ever denied that Superman has some level of superspeed. it's just that Superman fans can't tell the difference between throwing punches while flying and things like reading a book while everyone around you is frozen in time.

More of a comic book fan myself then a "Superman fan." As I said before Marvel makes better movies, but I call it like I see it.

However I believe you did say you were a Wonder Woman fan, and she was one your favorite superhero's. How is it you can claim you are bias free, but then imply Superman fans bias?

Originally posted by Sable
More of a comic book fan myself then a "Superman fan." As I said before Marvel makes better movies. I call it like I see it.

However I believe you did say you were a Wonder Woman fan, and she was one your favorite superhero's. How is it you can claim you are bias free, but then imply Superman fans bias?

Post the quotes in this thread that you believe show my bias.

Downplaying the RPG catch for starters cause it technically isn't a "bullet" even though its a fast moving projectile.

Originally posted by Sable
Downplaying the RPG catch for starters cause it technically isn't a "bullet" even though its a fast moving projectile.

So your idea of bias is me telling the truth, or are you claiming that I was wrong about RPG's being slower and larger than bullets?

Originally posted by Sable
Downplaying the RPG catch for starters cause it technically isn't a "bullet" even though its a fast moving projectile.

I pointed out multiple times that catching 1 RPG round is <<< than blocking multiple bullets coming from different directions. You (and others) have continuously tried to dodge this fact.

Also, RPG's travel quite a bit slower than bullets.

Does the quote function not work for anybody else? The text field is blank.

The quotes function can **** up if you're quoting somehow who is using certain characters, happens with editing your post too.

It most often happens when someone copy/paste something off the net that has quotation marks, commas, dashes and slashes.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I pointed out multiple times that catching 1 RPG round is <<< than blocking multiple bullets coming from different directions. You (and others) have continuously tried to dodge this fact.

Also, RPG's travel quite a bit slower than bullets.

This is just not true, I know she blocked multiple bullets. You stated he had never displayed any "combat speed" because he had not blocked bullets. I pointed out he caught one. But you are playing semantics by saying that because he does not have the exact same feat due to writers and directors intent and screenplay, the feats cannot be compared, which is outlandish, and childish. The RPG still travels extremely fast, cut the crap.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Does the quote function not work for anybody else? The text field is blank. It sometimes doesn't work because KMC is dead and Raz is a phaggot.

Originally posted by Sable
This is just not true, I know she blocked multiple bullets. You stated he had never displayed any "combat speed" because he had not blocked bullets. I pointed out he caught one. But you are playing semantics by saying that because he does not have the exact same feat due to writers and directors intent and screenplay, the feats cannot be compared, which is outlandish, and childish. The RPG still travels extremely fast, cut the crap.

Please quote me where I said he does not display combat speed? I said he has no combat speed feats that compare to Diana's. Like blocking multiple bullets from different directions.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Please quote me where I said he does not display combat speed? I said he has no combat speed feats that compare to Diana's. Like blocking multiple bullets from different directions.

Right here

Originally posted by FrothByte
he does not display combat speed

But seriously:

Superman in both but round 2 he has to work for and Diana will best him sometimes

Originally posted by juggerman
Right here

Post the whole sentence. I feel as if that's being taken out of context.

Edit: I see that was a joke.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Please quote me where I said he does not display combat speed? I said he has no combat speed feats that compare to Diana's. Like blocking multiple bullets from different directions.

Done.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Also, Zod was hitting Superman even though none of them were moving at said combat speed.

Originally posted by Sable
This is just not true, I know she blocked multiple bullets. You stated he had never displayed any "combat speed" because he had not blocked bullets. I pointed out he caught one. But you are playing semantics by saying that because he does not have the exact same feat due to writers and directors intent and screenplay, the feats cannot be compared, which is outlandish, and childish. The RPG still travels extremely fast, cut the crap.

See what did I say? You can't seem to bring yourself to address the fact that blocking multiple bullets from different directions is a better feat than catching 1 RPG.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Please quote me where I said he does not display combat speed? I said he has no combat speed feats that compare to Diana's. Like blocking multiple bullets from different directions. You're right. His combat speed feats are considerably better.

Originally posted by FrothByte
See what did I say? You can't seem to bring yourself to address the fact that blocking multiple bullets from different directions is a better feat than catching 1 RPG.

You said he didn't have combat speed. And you still don't understand what combat speed is. I see you will keep arguing nonsense for the next year though.

edit:

Argue all you want about semantics, Superman will kill her almost instantly with one hit if she doesn't have her weapons, and he still ends up beating her with weapons. Even though the Wonder Woman movie was better then MoS.

Since you want to do this thing, where Wonder Woman did something Superman never did. How about this: Wonder Woman never pulled a frigate through the ice, she never fought 3 kryptonians, she never fought weakened against doomsday, she never survived a nuke, she never fought doomsday after being hit with a nuke. She also never traversed the planet in seconds. And she never fought anyone as fast as Faora.

Originally posted by Sable
You said he didn't have combat speed. And you still don't understand what combat speed is. I see you will keep arguing nonsense for the next year though.

edit:

Argue all you want about semantics, Superman will kill her almost instantly with one hit if she doesn't have her weapons, and he still ends up beating her with weapons. Even though the Wonder Woman movie was better then MoS.

Since you want to do this thing, where Wonder Woman did something Superman never did. How about this: Wonder Woman never pulled a frigate through the ice, she never fought 3 kryptonians, she never fought weakened against doomsday, she never survived a nuke, she never fought doomsday after being hit with a nuke. She also never traversed the planet in seconds. And she never fought anyone as fast as Faora.

1. I never said Superman doesn't have combat speed. Either quote me where I said that or stop lying through your teeth.

2. The discussion I'm arguing on is combat speed which is why I'm asking for reflex speeds of Superman that can compare to WW blocking multiple bullets. We can discuss feats of strength and durability separately.

3. Answer the question: Is blocking multiple bullets from different directions harder to do than catching a single RPG round?

You said numerous times hoesn't have combat speed in this very thread. I don't have to prove you said it, when it's in black and white. I suggest you read what you wrote.

Again


Since you want to do this thing, where Wonder Woman did something Superman never did. How about this: Wonder Woman never pulled a frigate through the ice, she never fought 3 kryptonians, she never fought weakened against doomsday, she never survived a nuke, she never fought doomsday after being hit with a nuke. She also never traversed the planet in seconds. And she never fought anyone as fast as Faora.

Did Ares have blocking bullets feats? How did he tag her since he didn't show he couldn't block bullets? Also does wonder woman have a gun with kryptonite bullets in this match for why we keep talking about blocking bullets?

I hate to do this but, I just checked this entire thread and couldn't find where he said Superman "doesn't have combat speed".

Could you please quote his actual posts, thank you.

I already did, thanks.

No you didn't.

I did.

If that were true you'd post the link, instead you're just spamming the thread.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I already proved WW had faster feats than Faora.

Saying Faora has blur behind her isn't a proof. Flash has a blur behind him, is Wonder woman faster than the flash now based on a blur?

In Superman 2, he had a blur behind him when he turned back time, is she faster then him to now?

Who gave you the authority to judge what a blur means and automatically assume the person is slower, how do you even come up with this stuff?

Originally posted by Sable
You said numerous times hoesn't have combat speed in this very thread. I don't have to prove you said it, when it's in black and white. I suggest you read what you wrote.

Again


Since you want to do this thing, where Wonder Woman did something Superman never did. How about this: Wonder Woman never pulled a frigate through the ice, she never fought 3 kryptonians, she never fought weakened against doomsday, she never survived a nuke, she never fought doomsday after being hit with a nuke. She also never traversed the planet in seconds. And she never fought anyone as fast as Faora.

Did Ares have blocking bullets feats? How did he tag her since he didn't show he couldn't block bullets? Also does wonder woman have a gun with kryptonite bullets in this match for why we keep talking about blocking bullets?

I assume since you couldn't quote me that you didn't actually find anywhere where i did superman doesn't have combat speed.

I also see how you're trying to evade answering my statement. We'll address your frigate argument after you address my multiple bullet vs RPG argument.

It's not like she was knocking multiple bullets out of the air simultaneously. The goons in the alley all fired one after another.

A 40 mm grenade is not rocket propelled either

Originally posted by FrothByte
I assume since you couldn't quote me that you didn't actually find anywhere where i did superman doesn't have combat speed.

I also see how you're trying to evade answering my statement. We'll address your frigate argument after you address my multiple bullet vs RPG argument.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Flying speed or even movement speed obviously goes to Superman. When I say combat speed, Diana has feats of blocking multiple bullets using her a Superman dashes to and fro but doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed. That's what I mean by combat speed.

This is you saying he doesn't have combat speed. I didn't evade anything, I said his bullet catch was a comparable feat.

Only, Superman didn't catch a bullet.

Yeah, he just sped through a city while fighting Zod at hypersonic speeds and was able to maneuver between buildings while beating the shit out of him.

To be honest, the thread ended when this was posted:

http://i.imgur.com/5YOnNno.jpg

The confirmation that Superman can think and react at the super speeds he flies pretty much killed any WW argument that could be put forth, since Superman is capable of flying literally thousands of times faster than WW's silly bullet-blocking feat.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah, he just sped through a city while fighting Zod at hypersonic speeds and was able to maneuver between buildings while beating the shit out of him.

To be honest, the thread ended when this was posted:

http://i.imgur.com/5YOnNno.jpg

The confirmation that Superman can think and react at the super speeds he flies pretty much killed any WW argument that could be put forth, since Superman is capable of flying literally thousands of times faster than WW's silly bullet-blocking feat.

Yep, this is correct. It would be one thing if the guy was only shown flying fast in a straight line, but that isn't the case.

No one is denying that he has heightened reactions, it's just some people are massively exaggerating the level.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No one is denying that he has heightened reactions, it's just some people are massively exaggerating the level. "His reflexes are equally quick", which is to say they are on par with his flying speed, which is to say that he can think, act, and react at, oh, mach 10,000 or so.

See what I mean?

How is that an exaggeration? Isn't that "official source"?

Post the clip from the movie where he shows mach 10000+ reaction speed.

Little guy is breaking down, not acknowledging official sources.

So, where is the clip showing Superman utilizing Mach 10000 + reaction speed?

He doesn't know what "equally" means, I think he might be retarded. mmm

Do you need more time to find the clip?

Typical snake eyes.

You people really need to read the rules for the Forum, it's movie Feats only. In other words, if it didn't happen on screen it doesn't count.

^^^mad cuz Supes can go mach 10000 and stomps lmao

Still waiting for the clip showcasing Superman's Mach 10000 reactions.

Let's say Superman can fly at 10 times the speed of a bullet while avoiding buildings that are more than 10 times the distance away than the gunmen who shot at WW. This means that WW would faster reactions.

Remember, it's all about TIME. Speed alone doesn't determine anything, we also need DISTANCE to complete the time equation.

Originally posted by NemeBro
"His reflexes are equally quick", which is to say they are on par with his flying speed, which is to say that he can think, act, and react at, oh, mach 10,000 or so. Us humans can think and act at 1000x the speed of light. It would take about 0.48 of a second to react to avoid the Sun. Reactions and reflexes depend on time (not speed). Speed and distance determines time.

Superman can probably fly at mach 10,000. But that doesn't mean he can react in time if objects are close enough to him. Otherwise, he would have infinite reflexes. There has to be a limit to how close and object can be for Superman to avoid it traveling at mach 10000. That's why we should use screen feats as a guide.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You people really need to read the rules for the Forum, it's movie Feats only. In other words, if it didn't happen on screen it doesn't count. Originally posted by abhilegend


Typical snake eyes.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah, he just sped through a city while fighting Zod at hypersonic speeds and was able to maneuver between buildings while beating the shit out of him.

To be honest, the thread ended when this was posted:

http://i.imgur.com/5YOnNno.jpg

The confirmation that Superman can think and react at the super speeds he flies pretty much killed any WW argument that could be put forth, since Superman is capable of flying literally thousands of times faster than WW's silly bullet-blocking feat.

Jet fighters fly their jets at over Mach 2 and can dog fight while in the air. That doesn't mean that their reflexes are as fast as Mach 2.

Superman has control of his flight, meaning he can speed up and slow down as he needs to AND he can see before hand where he's going and can adjust accordingly. Same way f1 race car drivers and jet fighters know where they're going and can adjust their speed and reactions depending on how they want to maneuver.

So Superman flying at the speed of sound and adjusting his flight to evade buildings is completely different from evading something that's coming at you at the speed of sound.

And though I seldom agree with H1, he does bring up a valid point that it's not just speed that should be considered but also distance. WW blocking multiple bullets at such a close distance is still a better combat speed feat than anything we've seen from Superman, who basically either tanks bullets or just runs away from them.

Why yes, me being correct is typical. Thank you for noticing.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You people really need to read the rules for the Forum, it's movie Feats only. In other words, if it didn't happen on screen it doesn't count. Incorrect my mentally handicapped friend. They only don't count if they directly contradict the film itself. Thankfully, they don't.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You people really need to read the rules for the Forum, it's movie Feats only. In other words, if it didn't happen on screen it doesn't count.

Unless its the odd moment where its a movie tie in comic.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Jet fighters fly their jets at over Mach 2 and can dog fight while in the air. That doesn't mean that their reflexes are as fast as Mach 2.

Superman has control of his flight, meaning he can speed up and slow down as he needs to AND he can see before hand where he's going and can adjust accordingly. Same way f1 race car drivers and jet fighters know where they're going and can adjust their speed and reactions depending on how they want to maneuver.

So Superman flying at the speed of sound and adjusting his flight to evade buildings is completely different from evading something that's coming at you at the speed of sound.

And though I seldom agree with H1, he does bring up a valid point that it's not just speed that should be considered but also distance. WW blocking multiple bullets at such a close distance is still a better combat speed feat than anything we've seen from Superman, who basically either tanks bullets or just runs away from them. Holy shit you're ****ing stupid.

That's a false equivalency. Show me a jet fighter flying through a busy city and making sheer turns at mach 2 during a dog fight.

No, afraid not. It is explicit that his reaction time is "equally" as quick as his flight speed. Which is to say, it's roughly mach 10,000.

Try again. Actually don't. It's honestly embarrassing.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Unless its the odd moment where its a movie tie in comic.

Where did Imp say that tie in comics were allowed?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Holy shit you're ****ing stupid.

That's a false equivalency. Show me a jet fighter flying through a busy city and making sheer turns at mach 2 during a dog fight.

No, afraid not. It is explicit that his reaction time is "equally" as quick as his flight speed. Which is to say, it's roughly mach 10,000.

Try again. Actually don't. It's honestly embarrassing.

Do you actually understand how analogies work? Me, stating how jet fighter pilots fly and dog fight does not mean I'm implying they can accomplish the exact same maneuvers Superman does.

The analogy here is that their reflexes does not equal their flying top speed.

If you're going to debate with me at least make sure you have the intelligence for it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Incorrect my mentally handicapped friend. They only don't count if they directly contradict the film itself. Thankfully, they don't.

That's flat out BS. You can't just make up stuff and expect them to apply to a forum fight just because they didn't conflict with a feat.

Originally posted by Impediment
I've been asked to step in to make a ruling on the matter at hand.

The primary issue in contention is the use of novelizations/book adaptations.

I refer you all to the MVF Golden Rule: What happens on screen is canon. Movie feats only.

I allow certain feats, for example, from the Star Trek television series because of the direct tie in to the movies.

Books, in my opinion, are waters I choose not to tread into. A novelization of, say, an Indiana Jones movie, while much more elaborate in wording and pace, is still not a movie; it's merely an written adaptation that, as history suggests, will improvise, elaborate, and possibly alter certain aspects of the movie it is adapting. The same goes with comic books, manga, and other written works pertaining to certain movies.

Therefore, the ruling is that a written adaptation of this film, as well as cast/crew commentaries made after the film has been completed, screened, and transferred to home media, will not be allowable. Movie feats only, please.

A much, much more suitable area for this kind of debate is, of course, the All Versus Forum where ALL source material is allowed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Where did Imp say that tie in comics were allowed?

I'm saying that they should be

even if its not in the rules



especially with the Movie tie in comics from Marvel for their movies, They have a big red logo on the cover making them canon.

Originally posted by Kazenji
I'm saying that they should be

even if its not in the rules



especially with the Movie tie in comics from Marvel for their movies, They have a big red logo on the cover making them canon.

See above, Imp already ruled that they don't count.

So mod rules over what Marvel says is canon to their movies

great logic.

Originally posted by Kazenji
So mod rules over what Marvel says is canon to their movies

great logic.

Does Marvel or DC own this site?

That post still doesn't adequately address the MCU tie-in comics IMO. Because they are not novelisations of the films that alter what is shown onscreen. They are supplementary canonical tie-ins that provide information about events that don't actually get shown onscreen.

I think he covers that when he stated "The same goes with comic books, manga, and other written works pertaining to certain movies".

Besides, he already said you could go to the all versus Forum if you wanted to use things like books, comics or adaptions.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Do you actually understand how analogies work? Me, stating how jet fighter pilots fly and dog fight does not mean I'm implying they can accomplish the exact same maneuvers Superman does.

The analogy here is that their reflexes does not equal their flying top speed.

If you're going to debate with me at least make sure you have the intelligence for it. So you're saying that you're aware that your analogy was a shitty false equivalency, but chose to use it anyway? I take it back, you're not stupid. You're an insane masochist.

That's because they can't do all the things Superman can at their flying speed. Superman can zip around buildings and throw punches at his flying speed.

My son, I've effortlessly dismantled your laughable analogy and have used official material to validate my claims. You have nothing but garbage to give me. You can't handle these bants little guy, as seen by your cute attempt at using my own insult (asserting that you are low in intelligence) back at me.

Seriously my man, it's really sad.

Originally posted by Silent Master
See above, Imp already ruled that they don't count. Hm? Then Impediment is wrong. I don't care what someone with a far inferior understanding of the topic at hand has to say on the subject.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I think he covers that when he stated "The same goes with comic books, manga, and other written works pertaining to certain movies".

Except he put that bit into the part about adaptations/novelisations, while pointing out that tie-ins, like Star Trek tv shows, are canon, which those comics actually are as well. They're technically their own standalone stories that exist within the MCU. You don't actually even need to see the films to be able to read some of them. For example, the Black Widow Strikes 3-issue series is about MCU Black Widow, but the story is its own separate thing that has her doing a mission totally unrelated to the films. So, it is canonically a part of the MCU, and it doesn't alter anything we see onscreen. But if his ruling does include stuff like that, then it's a bit silly IMO. Allowing one canonical tie-in while dismissing another, simply because one was printed on a piece of paper, makes little sense to me.

If you want Imp to change his ruling you would be better served pming him.

Well, I don't really care much either way, but it just seems like a strange distinction. Because I am assuming the filmed one-shots (like the Agent Carter and Mandarin ones, for example) are considered valid (as they even include the same actors portraying the same characters), and they serve the exact same purpose as the tie-in comics do.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's flat out BS. You can't just make up stuff and expect them to apply to a forum fight just because they didn't conflict with a feat.

But you made up a bunch of stuff and called it proof.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I assume since you couldn't quote me that you didn't actually find anywhere where i did superman doesn't have combat speed.

I also see how you're trying to evade answering my statement. We'll address your frigate argument after you address my multiple bullet vs RPG argument.

This is you saying he didn't have combat speed.

"Flying speed or even movement speed obviously goes to Superman. When I say combat speed, Diana has feats of blocking multiple bullets using her a Superman dashes to and fro but doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed. That's what I mean by combat speed."

khKaUE9KV3A


EDITED:

At about 17-18 seconds,, Non grabs a charging Superman out air and throws him to the ground. Given Superman is attacking, it stands to reason he's accelerating as fast as he can (Which we've seen they can do in bursts, almost immediately on command.)

This proves Kryptonians have a racial ability to react to high speeds.

Originally posted by Sable
This is you saying he didn't have combat speed.

"Flying speed or even movement speed obviously goes to Superman. When I say combat speed, Diana has feats of blocking multiple bullets using her a Superman dashes to and fro but doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed. That's what I mean by combat speed."

So basically you're making things up. Because nowhere there did I say Superman does not have combat speed. All I see there is me clarifying what I meant by combat speed.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you're saying that you're aware that your analogy was a shitty false equivalency, but chose to use it anyway? I take it back, you're not stupid. You're an insane masochist.

That's because they can't do all the things Superman can at their flying speed. Superman can zip around buildings and throw punches at his flying speed.

My son, I've effortlessly dismantled your laughable analogy and have used official material to validate my claims. You have nothing but garbage to give me. You can't handle these bants little guy, as seen by your cute attempt at using my own insult (asserting that you are low in intelligence) back at me.

Seriously my man, it's really sad.

You're right, I shouldn't have stooped to your level. Insults are only used by those that can't seem to win arguments intelligently. My apologies, a moment of weakness.

Still doesn't change the fact that you don't understand analogies. What I said was X is not equal to Y, therefore 10X is not equal to 10Y. You then go and insult me because you think what I was trying to prove was that X is equal to 10X. This proves that you don't understand logic or analogy.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So basically you're making things up. Because nowhere there did I say Superman does not have combat speed. All I see there is me clarifying what I meant by combat speed.

Yes you clarified by saying superman does not have what you consider combat speed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You're right, I shouldn't have stooped to your level. Insults are only used by those that can't seem to win arguments intelligently. My apologies, a moment of weakness.

Still doesn't change the fact that you don't understand analogies. What I said was X is not equal to Y, therefore 10X is not equal to 10Y. You then go and insult me because you think what I was trying to prove was that X is equal to 10X. This proves that you don't understand logic or analogy.

You were insulting people long before that post.