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STID Khan

Who wins?

H2H

What did Emil do H2H besides knock away/down Ed Norton and Liv Tyler? Been awhile since I've seen ol' Incredible Hulk?

Even though Emil had some insane foot speed on the SSS, Khan should be able to outfight him and have enough durability and strength to get the job done. Khan gets the dub.

However, if Khan walks up to him and lets Emil unload on him like against Kirk, Emil could take advantage of that lol.

Blonsky dodged all over Hulk. I don't see Khan doing that.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Blonsky dodged all over Hulk. I don't see Khan doing that.

You thinking he can outmaneuver Khan until he gets some good strikes in to take him out? Khan also had some pretty fantastic agility in the Klingon showdown scene, but when he fought H2H throughout the film, it was all tanking blows, big kicks and haymakers, etc.

If Khan grapples Emil, I think Emil is in trouble as well.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
You thinking he can outmaneuver Khan until he gets some good strikes in to take him out? Khan also had some pretty fantastic agility in the Klingon showdown scene, but when he fought H2H throughout the film, it was all tanking blows, big kicks and haymakers, etc.

If Khan grapples Emil, I think Emil is in trouble as well.

It depends on how strong you think Blonsky is. He was supposedly given the SS serum given to Cap, and I consider Cap stronger than Khan. So if Blonsky is around Cap's strength then I don't see Khan overpowering him in a grappling match.

I don't remember Khan having any "fantastic agility" feats, can someone post them?

These are the closest he displays to agility, and lets say its not even close to fantastic. Just jumping is fantastic?:
https://youtu.be/K6_7phpFb-c?t=125
https://youtu.be/uT8npGLg2g8?t=117

As for this fight, I'd have to give it to Blonsky.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Even though Emil had some insane foot speed on the SSS
He was casually outpacing an entire platoon of soldiers, leaving them very much winded while he wasn't even breathing hard
Originally posted by John Murdoch
What did Emil do H2H besides knock away/down Ed Norton and Liv Tyler? Been awhile since I've seen ol' Incredible Hulk?
Big leaps - one onto Hulk's head and over and then another one to get out of the sonic cannons range - and then casually holding up Sterns by the waist over his head, with zero effort. And he was able to propel himself like 4 feet by just shoving his foot. And he didn't just knock Betty down, he causally threw her away.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Blonsky dodged all over Hulk. I don't see Khan doing that.
And outran Hulk as well. And Hulk in that movie was keeping up with speeding Humvees on foot and slapping away RPGs at point-blink range and yet Blonsky was able to do so. He was also doing some some Spider Man-esqe acrobatics while running up the stairs to Stern's lab.


The tipping point for me however is his healing ability, being able to heal back to full capacity in less than 24 hours from having his bones, according to the doctor, ""reduced to gravel"" by the Hulk. With healing power like that, he should have no trouble recovering from ANY damage Khan deals on him. Also on durability, he got blown away by those sonic cannons but was not hurt. Those cannons brought a charging Hulk to full stop and were pushing him back when he was trying to stand his ground. That's impressive considering his weight and speed alone, let alone his strength added to it.

I think Blonsky is significantly stronger and more agile, although Khan's healing speed is nothing to sneeze at either. I don't think healing speed would be a significant factor in the fight, they both have a little bit superhuman there, but a lot of fights only last a minute or so anyway, so the number of hits compared to how much time they would have to bounce back is not going to give a slow healing factor any real benefit. It's not Like Wolverine where bruises and bloody noses heal in a few seconds. It would still take minutes.

Well if his entire skeleton had been "reduced to gravel" and he healed in 24 hours, any damage Khan did do would be healed in seconds, considering a "cleanly" broken bone still takes a month at the least to heal. He reconstituted his entire skeletal structure, as well as tissue damage and organ liquefaction all in 24 hours.

Yes, but Khan kept getting up from stunner attacks, so his nervous system is recovering very fast, and his blood was healing pretty much any human disease when injected into another person, so it's going to be up there somewhere.

I hate to argue Pro Khan (anyone seen quan lately), but I feel compelled to do so...

Emil may have survived a punch from the Hulk, but Khan withstood something far greater than this...

Khan endured a Space Ship (one that weighed roughly 4.5 million tons) crashing down to the Earth from Space...

In an old thread involving Khan, I actually did the math on the force of the impact that he endured and it was far greater than that of an Atomic Detonation (I used the Hiroshima bomb as a frame of reference)...

And not only did Khan endure that, he didnt have any broken bones, and was combat capable immediately afterwards (immediately after the crash he jumped down 100ft and it didnt bother him one bit)...

Khan is a bad@ss...


Anyway, based on what I have seen from the two characters, I think this is a dead draw...

Neither has the Offensive Output to put the other down long enough for it to count as a win in a forum fight...

IMHO of course...

Plenty of normal humans have survived star ship crashes, so congrats on proving that Khan basically has normal human durability.

LOM has convinced me, Emil wins 1,000,000,000,000/10

Originally posted by Silent Master
Plenty of normal humans have survived star ship crashes, so congrats on proving that Khan basically has normal human durability.

LOM has convinced me, Emil wins 1,000,000,000,000/10

Did they survive without utilizing any kind of safety device whatsoever?

Khan did...he stayed at the flight controls to ensure that the ship impacted at Star Fleet Headquarters..


Besides, Khan had a previous history of exhibiting Superhuman durability during Into Darkness, so his showing was in all likelihood, not PIS...

How many of those other normal humans exhibited Superhuman durability prior to their Ship crashing from Space?

If they didn't, then I submit to you, that them surviving was PIS...

@Silent Master

As a logical person (perhaps you are not logical?) you should know that humans only very rarely survive plane crashes from great heights, let alone a crash from space (which would carry far, far, more KE with it than any plane crash would)...

Add in the additional mass of the ship Khan was in (Force does equal Mass x Acceleration afterall), and what Khan survived was many times more destructive than anything we've seen Hulk accomplish with his fist...

A. The ship was subject to air resistance/drag the moment it entered the atmosphere, which would affect its impact velocity.

B. The structure of the ship itself would absorb a massive amount of the actual energy of the impact, especially given the kind of forces those ships are made to withstand. Like how a tank can smash through a wall and leave the humans inside it perfectly fine, but a human hitting a wall with comparable force would kill them.

I.E. there are multiple factors that you failed to incorporate into your calculations, which would massively impact the result. And I remember that thread, and the fact that multiple people pointed out issues with your results.

Based on Sulu's comments, it is indeed a feat of superhuman durability. But it is not even remotely proof that he can no-sell nukes. DCEU Superman can't even no-sell nukes. Are you trying to suggest that Khan is more durable than Superman?

Other factors to also include is the angle at which the ship impacted, the distance it dragged/skidded across the ground (which would also help dissipate the energy), as well as the friction provided by said ground.

Also how this is several hundred years in the future where technology and science/math have advanced to the point where a lot of the stuff we know now is completely wrong or obsolete.

A muuuuuch older model Starfleet ship crashed on Krall's planet and was relatively undamaged as it only took Scotty maybe a few hours to get it spaceworthy.

The ship's systems may work wonders to help people survive crashes like that.

FpgyrIlhoyw

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
A. The ship was subject to air resistance/drag the moment it entered the atmosphere, which would affect its impact velocity.

B. The structure of the ship itself would absorb a massive amount of the actual energy of the impact, especially given the kind of forces those ships are made to withstand. Like how a tank can smash through a wall and leave the humans inside it perfectly fine, but a human hitting a wall with comparable force would kill them.

I.E. there are multiple factors that you failed to incorporate into your calculations, which would massively impact the result. And I remember that thread, and the fact that multiple people pointed out issues with your results.

Based on Sulu's comments, it is indeed a feat of superhuman durability. But it is not even remotely proof that he can no-sell nukes. DCEU Superman can't even no-sell nukes. Are you trying to suggest that Khan is more durable than Superman?

A) I am fully aware of this, and it is reflected in the previously mentioned post as pertains this topic.

Even utilizing a ridiculously low velocity (which I did to refute those arguing against me), the impact would still beat the Hiroshima detonation by a considerable margin...

Using the average velocity of objects impacting the Earth from space, that ship impacted with several orders of magnitude more force than the Hiroshima detonation generated...

B) Of course the ship would absorb most of the impact, but even if Khan absorbed 1/10th of 1% of the force (humans in car and plane crashes absorb a far greater % of the impact force btw), he still withstood a tremendous amount of KE transferring into his body during the impact...

C) I remember the thread well, and I remember successfully countering every counter argument utilized against me...

D) I'm not saying he can no-sale nukes; Khan was hurt and bleeding from the impact, but was able to quickly recover due to his incredible healing factor...


Khan was able to (ALL in rapid succession):

1) Survive a Space Ship impacting the Earth...
2) Jump 100ft straight down with no apparent ill effects...
3) Get the upper hand against an enraged, blood lusted, Spock...
4) Withstand multiple close range phaser blasts...


Keep in mind that earlier in the movie, Khan withstood a direct impact with Space Debris while traveling through Space at orbital velocity...

And withstood it without any apparent ill effects...


Khan is a bad mutha no matter what you think about him and his feats of durability demonstrate this...

FpgyrIlhoyw

The ship didn't fall on Khan's head, right?

@ LoM

I don't recall anyone buying your explanations, no matter if you personally think you refuted anything.

Fact is it is impossible to get an accurate number for the force he withstood without knowing all the exact variables. Even a single one being off can massively influence the result. So, in terms of Versus matches, it's pretty much un-quantifiable, as your numbers are partially based on assumptions and speculation. As I already pointed out, the angle of impact, the distance it slid, and the friction force of the ground influences the result as well. If you want to use it, then I am sorry, but I want to see a reputable third party with more in depth information come to the same conclusion. Not just your personal numbers.

Again, Superman was turned into a near-skeleton by a nuke detonation, and needed to absorb solar radiation to recover quickly. So, again, are you saying Khan is more durable than Superman? Simple yes or no question.

Also, what is so impressive about beating Spock? An enraged Spock couldn't even KO Kirk with repeated hits. And going from that, Spock managed to break Khan's arm and knock him unconscious. Does that mean Spock now hits with nuke level force, seeing as he had more of an effect on Khan than the ship crash did? And from there, does that mean Kirk can withstand nukes now too, seeing as he took repeated hits from an enraged Spock? Do you see the flaw in assuming the ship crash means he can withstand forces greater than Hiroshima?

Khan is very clearly above human in durability. The film makes that much clear. But he does not have durability greater than the likes of Superman, Thor, Hulk etc. If you believe he does, then don't expect anyone here to take you seriously in your arguments for him.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
The ship didn't fall on Khan's head, right?

Nope. He was inside it as it crashed at an angle, skidding what looked to be a couple of miles before coming to a halt. The ship was almost at a level trajectory when it impacted. Which, again, massively aids in negating the impact force. From about 0:40 onward:

PHSJ-Xq-flo

An impressive feat and, based on Sulu's comments, showcases superhuman durability, but it's getting blown out of proportion here. The nuke thing basically implies that he has greater durability than some of the heaviest hitters in the MCU and DCEU.

@ Vault
I was joking.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
@ Vault
I was joking.

What kind of fiend jokes about fictional ship crashes?

This is serious business.

But, on a real note, do you think what you see there supports the idea that Khan can take forces greater than Hiroshima and only sustain minor injuries?

None

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
@ Vault
I was joking. Millions died in that crash.

Insensitive douche.


Also, Blonsky wins

Originally posted by Silent Master
I don't remember Khan having any "fantastic agility" feats, can someone post them?

Point 1:
I figured the jumping around with the minigun laser-thingy slung over his shoulder, shooting said laser with great accuracy, shooting another laser assault rifle with excellent accuracy in the other hand, whilst sweep kicking melee attackers and such was pretty good. Granted, not as good as dodging MCU Hulk with flips and pushing off sheets of metal embedded into the ground while supine, but impressive nonetheless.

Point 2:
"Fantastic agility" < uncanny agility. The actual gauge for determining what quantities of agility qualify for each description TBD.

Point 3:
Glad I gave first response to get the thread going, because it's always a pleasure to see the "Khan survives starship crash" feat being equated with something like tanking a nuke. My job here is done.

Most people consider combat agility to be things like you see Spider-man or Nightwing doing. I didn't realize you were using your own definition, so fair enough.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Most people consider combat agility to be things like you see Spider-man or Nightwing doing. I didn't realize you were using your own definition, so fair enough.

Just kidding around in "Point 2". I did think that scene showed some pretty solid combat agility for reals. Obviously not a Nightwing or Spider-Man or even an Emil, however.

My debate is could Khan's strength and durability counter Emil's speed and agility. But, since Emil has a version of the SSS in his veins, he should have plenty of enhanced strength, plus I forgot about Hulk turning him into a ragdoll with a kick into a tree.

Thus, I can certainly see Emil winning.