Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

God will kill you and torture you. Have a nice day!

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
God will kill you and torture you. Have a nice day!

No. I am stronger than God.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Damn, did he really say that?

At least he realizes that the two are incompatible... science and faith-based religion. A lot of people now can't admit that.

A lot but not the majority.

I can forgive M L somewhat because of his time but I cannot forgive modern people.

http://imgur.com/IBroXK9

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
http://i.imgur.com/IBroXK9.jpg

Some people should be put to sleep.

Patient_Leech

I agree, but better to waken the sleepers and brain dead.

Regards
DL

What exactly is the "age of reason" ? I would assume the age would be something like 18 or 21, which I would think most posters here are older than that.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Damn, did he really say that?

At least he realizes that the two are incompatible... science and faith-based religion. A lot of people now can't admit that.


Scientist's believe only in what can be measured? Really?

Scientists take things on faith as much as any human being does (Whether religious conviction, irrational desire for validation/advancement in their choice of career, or a love of a child with a disability who many may wish didn't exist as a burdon on society.

It's called "human nature". And frankly, a human who passively meaures the human condition as if his fellow man has no intrinsic value sounds like a human I'd rather avoid..

OP, you are going to Hell.

Regards
THE LORD

Hell is for children.

something something SCRIPTURE

Originally posted by cdtm
Scientist's believe only in what can be measured? Really?

No, that's not strictly true. Scientists are just people, so while I'd say they're generally more inclined towards measurable beliefs, the more accurate thing to say would be, "only that which can be measured falls under the umbrella of science."



Ngl not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
No, that's not strictly true. Scientists are just people, so while I'd say they're generally more inclined towards measurable beliefs, the more accurate thing to say would be, "only that which can be measured falls under the umbrella of science."



Ngl not sure what point you're trying to make here.

My point is that he's wrong in saying science and faith are incompatible. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Being a Catholic, Christian, Muslim, or practicing jew is no more relevent to being a scientist then taking it on faith then accepting a parent loves their child above other human, or beliving that equality is a virtue worth advocating, is.

I will say that I do not believe in God, but I do believe in the supernatural. I went to a Catholic grammar school(and high school). I was in 8th grade when I became an atheist. It all started when I was scolded for merely questioning something about the bible.

See so instead of trying to engage with me they set me on a course that made me stop believing, all because they couldn't handle a question.

Ghosts and ghoulies then, lel.

Originally posted by Surtur
I will say that I do not believe in God, but I do believe in the supernatural.

So what exactly do you mean by "supernatural"? Ghosts and ghoulies (like Beni mentioned)? And what empirical evidence do you have for it?

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
So what exactly do you mean by "supernatural"? Ghosts and ghoulies (like Beni mentioned)? And what empirical evidence do you have for it?

I said I believe in it, I never said I have evidence. I do believe spirits exist. I believe there is an afterlife, though not like Christians believe. No "heaven" or "hell" nor do your actions in life dictate anything about your afterlife.

I believe there are other planes of existence, perhaps some represent what most would picture "hell" to be like, and perhaps some represent what most would picture "heaven" to be like.

Then why are you so agressive about Christian's beliefs if you also believe in absurdity with admitedly no evidence?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Then why are you so agressive about Christian's beliefs if you also believe in absurdity with admitedly no evidence?

Well you see I don't believe in a crazy sky god that murders people, etc. My beliefs also are not about the way people should act, but about merely the nature of the universe.

Did you want to try again?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Then why are you so agressive about Christian's beliefs if you also believe in absurdity with admitedly no evidence?

This.

What's so wrong with Muslims believing in their 72 virgins if we're allowed to just make shit up without evidence?

Why believe in the supernatural then if you admittedly don't have evidence?

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
This.

What's so wrong with Muslims believing in their 72 virgins if we're allowed to just make shit up without evidence?

Lol um, who said it's wrong they believe in 72 virgins? What is wrong is some of the shit they feel they can do to get it.

Plus like I said, my beliefs entail the nature of the universe only. Not morality, not asinine little rules.

Nobody gives a shit if you believe in 72 virgins. I give a shit if you think you can get them by exploding yourself.

EDIT: You can make up whatever shit you want, just don't try to shove it down the throats of others.

Sure, the outcomes are different, but it's a slippery slope.

It's a bit hypocritical to rail against religion if you have some unsupported beliefs of your own.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Sure, the outcomes are different, but it's a slippery slope.

It's a bit hypocritical to rail against religion if you have some unsupported beliefs of your own.

I rail against religion for the harm it can cause. Do go on and explain how because I believe the spirit continues after your body dies that makes me a hypocrite.

See because the problem comes when your unsupported beliefs f*ck with others in the world.

For example if you decided you wanna worship the cartoon Rocko' Modern Life? Cool. If you began to try to dictate how others should live their lives based on your beliefs or you began to get violent then there would be a problem. The fact that it is unsupported that the cartoon is anything more than a cartoon would not be my issue.

In which Surt loses support from his anti-religion buddies.

Watch out Surt...

http://i.imgur.com/ZhaVssw.jpg

It be a spook.

Lol er so did we just enter the Twilight Zone? An unsupported belief is now grounds for it to be hypocritical to call out the harm religion can cause?

So wait, people weren't under the impression that thinking God isn't real is anything other than an unsupported belief, were they? Cuz I don't believe God is real, and I kinda have no evidence to support that belief. So, more hypocrisy I take it?

Originally posted by Surtur
Do go on and explain how because I believe the spirit continues after your body dies that makes me a hypocrite.

It's okay to be open to the possibility, because it certainly is a possibility. But to have some firm belief that it is so is a bit dangerous. Where does said spirit go? Heaven or hell? See, you're lending support to Christians and Muslims.

It's a jump in faith...

oDcZkrl-eoY

You are saying I have some firm belief, but it's not like I have this rigid belief. Not like the people who believe in God. They believe he exists, no questions about it from them.

I believe physical death isn't the end, but I'm not opposed to this not being the case. Nor would I find it hard to believe if this was the case. Nor would I say a person is wrong if they do not believe.

I'm not sure why you are making this about evidence because my issues with religion have never stemmed from the lack of scientific evidence for it.

I think my spirit will go to spaghetti land when I die.

Originally posted by Surtur
You are saying I have some firm belief, but it's not like I have this rigid belief. Not like the people who believe in God. They believe he exists, no questions about it from them.

Then perhaps you should revisit the definition of "believe."

theory: surt has been watching too many late night paranormal shows.

Originally posted by Surtur
What exactly is the "age of reason" ? I would assume the age would be something like 18 or 21, which I would think most posters here are older than that.

I don't think there is a particular age when someone develops reason. Some children do before their parents do.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by cdtm
My point is that he's wrong in saying science and faith are incompatible. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Being a Catholic, Christian, Muslim, or practicing jew is no more relevent to being a scientist then taking it on faith then accepting a parent loves their child above other human, or beliving that equality is a virtue worth advocating, is.

Faith and science are incompatible.

Flat earth faith says the earth is flat. Science with verifiable information says otherwise.

To say that both of those are compatible would be as stupid as the notion that faith without facrs is good.

Regards
DL

They aren't incompatible if you posit the logical conclusion that if a God created the universe scientific laws and fact are his direct word.

Regards
LSDMB

God ain't real.

Regards
A Truther

Originally posted by cdtm
My point is that he's wrong in saying science and faith are incompatible. The two have nothing to do with each other.

The compatibility of science and faith varies from person to person, but they absolutely have plenty to do with each other. Science all about observing the world through the senses; if you're looking at the world with baseless religious preconditions, that will absolutely interfere with what you see.



Not really, lol.



Exactly. In other words, religion and science become more compatible the more religion concedes.

It's even more compatible when it's not there at all.

Science and Faith both make claims about the universe. They both make claims about the way the universe is. Science makes those claims with evidence. Supportable claims. Faith makes claims, for example, that Jesus walked on water or turned water to wine or rose from the dead. Those a very big claims that say something about the nature of water and about reanimating flesh (zombie Jesus anyone?). Or maybe a cracker turns into the body of Christ or a waffle literally turns into Uncle Sam.

These claims are incompatible with science. End of story.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well you see I don't believe in a crazy sky god that murders people, etc. My beliefs also are not about the way people should act, but about merely the nature of the universe.

Did you want to try again? Lol, first try.

Regards
The ghost on your shoulder. Boo

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Lol, first try.

Regards
The ghost on your shoulder. Boo

Yes, your first try was indeed a failure. What I am doing is giving you another attempt at a "gotcha". Did you want to take it?

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Science and Faith both make claims about the universe. They both make claims about the way the universe is. Science makes those claims with evidence. Supportable claims. Faith makes claims, for example, that Jesus walked on water or turned water to wine or rose from the dead. Those a very big claims that say something about the nature of water and about reanimating flesh (zombie Jesus anyone?). Or maybe a cracker turns into the body of Christ or a waffle literally turns into Uncle Sam.

These claims are incompatible with science. End of story.

You still haven't quite explained how it's hypocritical to say you don't believe physical death is the end, but it's not hypocritical if you don't believe God is real. There is no evidence on Gods existence either way, so that is a problem we run into.

On top of that, you've still left us all in the dark about how believing something without empirical evidence is hypocrisy unless you similarly railed against religion specifically because of the lack of scientific proof. See because I didn't do that lol. A persons lack of scientific evidence for their beliefs is irrelevant to me. It's the harm their beliefs cause. The beliefs are still harmful even if you had evidence, is my other thing. There is no scenario killing every first born is okay, whether God is a legit person that science proved or not.

Now if you see me, in the future, going "hey religious person you're a piece of shit because science doesn't back up your claims" then I encourage you to indeed drop the hypocrisy hammer. I don't doubt there are folk out there who hammer at religion using only science, but it's not me so why apply arguments to me I never made?

EDIT: Now if you've run into scientific evidence proving without a doubt God isn't real I'd be interested.

Originally posted by Surtur
Yes, your first try was indeed a failure. What I am doing is giving you another attempt at a "gotcha". Did you want to take it? I guess you didn't understand the content of yet another post. Sigh.

But don't worry friend, I'm here to help you out.

My post wasn't oriented to your fairly misdirected moral judgement of religion, but rather to the way you make fun of their core beliefs -even in your very first reply to me in this thread-, while at the same time believing in stupid shit yourself, like ghosts and bigfoot, with admitedly no basis in reality. Lol. Is that clear enough?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I guess you didn't understand the content of yet another post. Sigh.

But don't worry friend, I'm here to help you out.

My post wasn't oriented to your fairly misdirected moral judgement of religion, but rather to the way you make fun of their core beliefs -even in your very first reply to me in this thread-, while at the same time believing in stupid shit yourself, like ghosts and bigfoot, with admitedly no basis in reality. Lol. Is that clear enough?

Indeed, ghosts being real is indeed silly. I wouldn't whine and throw a b*tch fit if someone pointed this out. It is silly, full stop. Difference is I'm not trying to shove my silly beliefs down the throats of others. So I'm still waiting for the "gotcha" part, where does it come?

Query though, as someone who seems to at least try to give the appearance of intelligence: are all silly things in life equally silly?

Shit, you're really worried about perceived intelligence in a e-forum. Lol

Difference is nobody is trying to shove you anything down your throat here, so that excuse of yours is out. And no, not all things are equally silly, but we are not discussing that buddy.

Unless you want this to derail into 'my beliefs are slightly less retarded cause hurrr dur'? Lol

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Shit, you're really worried about perceived intelligence in a e-forum. Lol

Difference is nobody is trying to shove you anything down your throat here, so that excuse of yours is out. And no, not all things are equally silly, but we are not discussing that buddy.

Unless you want this to derail into 'my beliefs are slightly less retarded cause hurrr dur'? Lol

Who said people here try to shove it down anyone's throat? We're discussing religion in general: so the "excuse" certainly isn't out, it's quite in.

This is not really about silly beliefs, it's about beliefs that lead to harm. Like I said, I can agree thinking ghosts are real could be seen as silly. On top of that, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny are also silly things. I tend not to care because folk aren't out there twisting those beliefs into things that can potentially do harm.

Originally posted by Surtur
You still haven't quite explained how it's hypocritical to say you don't believe physical death is the end, but it's not hypocritical if you don't believe God is real. There is no evidence on Gods existence either way, so that is a problem we run into.

You've used way too many double-negatives, so I'm not even quite sure what you're trying to say, but if I do understand you right: Believing that one's soul rises out of your skull after death with similar capacities that we have in this world requires a similar jump in faith to the existence of God, for which there is also little to no evidence. That's why it's hypocritical for you to be adamant that there is no God, but that our souls carry on after death.

Unless of course some new and fascinating scientific facts come in...



Originally posted by Surtur
On top of that, you've still left us all in the dark about how believing something without empirical evidence is hypocrisy... A persons lack of scientific evidence for their beliefs is irrelevant to me. It's the harm their beliefs cause.

Even seemingly harmless irrational beliefs (i.e. beliefs that contradict science) like crackers turning into the body of some religious figure can have significant consequences. Surt, you don't like Muslims harming Jews in the name of their religion, do you? Well here you go, Sam Harris lays out a very curious example of established Christianity doing it with some seemingly harmless irrational dogma...



~ Sam Harris
The End of Faith (p.99-100)

Your belief that our souls rise out of us after we die would be perfectly good irrational evidence to ban the extremely promising medical treatment of stem cells. And indeed that very reasoning was used to stop it at the federal level.

So what do you say we keep the discourse rational and firmly planted in this world, eh?

Originally posted by Surtur
Indeed, ghosts being real is indeed silly. I wouldn't whine and throw a b*tch fit if someone pointed this out. It is silly, full stop. Difference is I'm not trying to shove my silly beliefs down the throats of others. So I'm still waiting for the "gotcha" part, where does it come?

Query though, as someone who seems to at least try to give the appearance of intelligence: are all silly things in life equally silly? At least Surt admits he's dumb.

Originally posted by Surtur
Who said people here try to shove it down anyone's throat? We're discussing religion in general: so the "excuse" certainly isn't out, it's quite in.

This is not really about silly beliefs, it's about beliefs that lead to harm. Like I said, I can agree thinking ghosts are real could be seen as silly. On top of that, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny are also silly things. I tend not to care because folk aren't out there twisting those beliefs into things that can potentially do harm. Again, I'm not talking about that. But about you finding their beliefs to be silly, and actively ridiculizing them, not criticizing them.

Why do you do that?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
They aren't incompatible if you posit the logical conclusion that if a God created the universe scientific laws and fact are his direct word.

Regards
LSDMB


Yes but only a fool would posit the existence of some supernatural God.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Surtur
Indeed, ghosts being real is indeed silly. I wouldn't whine and throw a b*tch fit if someone pointed this out. It is silly, full stop. Difference is I'm not trying to shove my silly beliefs down the throats of others. So I'm still waiting for the "gotcha" part, where does it come?

Query though, as someone who seems to at least try to give the appearance of intelligence: are all silly things in life equally silly?
Easy for you to say because you haven't witnessed and/or experienced strange stuff.

There are mysteries of this universe which I don't think science is close to unlock anytime soon.

The founders of the United States, the man who discovered gravity, the inventor of the big bang theory, the father of liberalism, one of the greatest astronomers in history and... Ben Shapiro.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Easy for you to say because you haven't witnessed and/or experienced strange stuff.

There are mysteries of this universe which I don't think science is close to unlock anytime soon.

I just put up a new O.P. that has a link you should follow to see just how bright the ancient ones were about God and just stupid we are today in our thinking of Gods.

Just because the majority claim to be religious does not mean that any of the Gods are the way idol worshipers of today claim they are.

The majority of religionists are homophobic and misogynous and religions should be judged by their morality and as you can see, most of the religious are not moral people.

Regards
DL