Rate in power

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abhilegend
If Galactus (Fed on one planet) is 100 in power, rate below characters. Not in order.

Ganthet
Odin
Nabu
Parallax (Host)
Darkseid (New 52)
Uatu the Watcher
Exitar
Anti Monitor (New 52)
Spectre (Hal Jordan)
Spectre (Jim Corrigan)

Prof. T.C McAbe
Ganthet 75
Odin 80
Nabu 90
Parallax (Host), Zero Hour Hal 500
Darkseid (New 52), 350
Uatu the Watcher, 70
Exitar, 95
Anti Monitor (New 52), 300
Spectre (Hal Jordan), 500
Spectre (Jim Corrigan) DoT, 500
Or so...
And as Phil said, 200 doesn't mean twice as strong, it means another league, like Universal and multiversal.

operator616
Ganthet: 40
Odin: 80
Nabu: 70
parallax: 80
DS: 90
Uatu: 75
Exitar: 110
AM: 120
Spectre (hal): 200+ (irrelevant really, as he should dwarf galactus even in his non full potential state)
Corrigan-Spectre: 150+

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
Ganthet: 40
Odin: 80
Nabu: 70
parallax: 80
DS: 90
Uatu: 75
Exitar: 110
AM: 120
Spectre (hal): 200+ (irrelevant really, as he should dwarf galactus even in his non full potential state)
Corrigan-Spectre: 150+
Interesting. You have Darkseid lower than AM when he had the upper hand on him arguably.

Also Nabu being less powerful than Odin? Not sure I agree.

dvampire
Spectre is can is the only on that could beat galactus if he wasn't restricted by God.

dvampire
In order:
Galactus
Spectre if restricted
Anti monitor
Uatu the watcher
Parallax
Darkseid
Odin
Exitar
Ganthet
Nabu

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
Interesting. You have Darkseid lower than AM when he had the upper hand on him arguably.

Also Nabu being less powerful than Odin? Not sure I agree.

AM defeated DS with the ALE which is part of his powerset. So there's that, besides, i consider this a high showing for Darkseid.

You don't have to agree. Nabu has two or three very high end feats but lots of sup-par showings and has been outperformed by his disciples a couple of times.

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
AM defeated DS with the ALE which is part of his powerset. So there's that, besides, i consider this a high showing for Darkseid.

You don't have to agree. Nabu has two or three very high end feats but lots of sup-par showings and has been outperformed by his disciples a couple of times.
AM defeated him with the help of Black Racer. Alone Darkseid had upper hand even after AM had been amped.

Are you trying to say Dr Fate is more powerful than Nabu? That's like saying Surfer is more powerful than Galactus.

Anyway Nabu is the most powerful Lord of Order and that includes the likes of Kismet, Dominus and Mordru. No way is he less powerful than Odin.

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
AM defeated him with the help of Black Racer. Alone Darkseid had upper hand even after AM had been amped.

Are you trying to say Dr Fate is more powerful than Nabu? That's like saying Surfer is more powerful than Galactus.

Anyway Nabu is the most powerful Lord of Order and that includes the likes of Kismet, Dominus and Mordru. No way is he less powerful than Odin.

The black racer whom he controlled under his own power. He may have had the upper hand temporarily but ultimately he was defeated. And im not even denying that Darkseid had a moment of glory.

No it's not like that at all. the dr fate entity is meant to be a trinity of nabu, a male (like kent) and a female (like inza). This has been established several times. That's why you have instances like Inza and Kent imprisoning nabu in the amulet, and so did Hector and Lyta btw.

Kismet is only arguably a lord of order and iirc she was once even stated to be on neither side. There was a bio stating that she was though, so im not sure. But either way, Nabu is in no way more powerful than kismet or dominus. Mordru? They're about equal, or at the very least on the same level. That's been demonstrated in their fights.

Galan007
Originally posted by abhilegend
If Galactus (Fed on one planet) is 100 in power, rate below characters. Not in order.

Ganthet
Odin
Nabu
Parallax (Host)
Darkseid (New 52)
Uatu the Watcher
Exitar
Anti Monitor (New 52)
Spectre (Hal Jordan)
Spectre (Jim Corrigan)
Ganthet-75
Odin-80
Nabu-85
Parallax(Host)-95
DCnU Darkseid-120
Uatu-70
Exitar-110
DCnU Anti-Monitor-120
Spectre(Hal)-250+
Spectre(Jim)-200+

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
The black racer whom he controlled under his own power. He may have had the upper hand temporarily but ultimately he was defeated. And im not even denying that Darkseid had a moment of glory.


He merged black Racer with the Flash, not controlling him directly.

So even though AM was amped, it was Darkseid who had a high showing, eh?



They used his own power against him. Its not like they were more powerful than him.



There is no arguably. She was stated to be a lord of Order in her very first appearance and has been reiterated twice more.

Her very first appearance has her as a Lord of
Order .
http://imgur.com/HfdHF3N
Superman secret files 1999.
http://imgur.com/7MtxOMm
JLA A-Z
http://i.imgur.com/JFDX8Ei.jpg
All have her as a Lord of Order .



Kismet herself said that there were other lords more powerful than her.

Nabu was weakened in his fight against Mordru.

abhilegend
Also for space cheese, Nabu created the universe within Fate's amulet which is beyond even Extant with Worloggog's ability to see. Odin has never been able to create a universe ex nihilo and neither has Galactus.

https://s13.postimg.org/aellizacz/14-07.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/qe492j6er/JSA_63_Hunter_Rose_-_DCP_pg07.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/5eo5b14qb/JSA_63_Hunter_Rose_-_DCP_pg10.jpg

The last page shows how Hector had stolen his power.

Philosophía
Ganthet - 80
Odin - 85
Nabu - 200
Parallax(Host) - 95
DCnU Darkseid - 250
Uatu - not sure
Exitar - 110
DCnU Anti-Monitor - 250
Spectre(Hal) - 500
Spectre(Jim) - 600

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
He merged black Racer with the Flash, not controlling him directly.


That's not what the comic says.

http://imgur.com/tqVhxAz

Originally posted by abhilegend

So even though AM was amped, it was Darkseid who had a high showing, eh?



Ok, let me give you a full explanation why i put Darkseid not on the same level as AM, as there are several indicators why he should be below AM outside of their fight.

AM's base power is basically anti life equation. Which has been established to be a legitimate universal or even potentially multiversal (if it is indeed equal to the life equation) power.

Regarding Darkseid, Im going to put aside Darkseid's high showings (vs AM and vs multiversal Alan) as well as his low showings like having trouble with the JLA, power girl giving him trouble and tanking his beams, iirc Mr miracle also had a gadget (boom sphere?) which could absorb his power, and the hellbat fight. Darkseid's average power should be equal to highfather. Why is this the best way to gauge him, you ask? Because darkseid and his forces have been in an eternal stalemate with highfather and new genesis. If Darkseid was truly multiversal like you're claiming him to be, he'd have no problem handling Highfather and new genesis after eons of conflict. I mean, Kyle w/ life equation (which is equal/opposite to the ALE) was far above highfather and his forces. This is also further demonstrated by the fact that Darkseid is below ALE (established several times in the darkseid war). This is quite relevant because AM possesses the ALE.

Also, going by your logic, Darkseid was amped as well. since he absorbed the powers of the old gods in his origin story.

So yes, i definitely think this is a high showing for Darkseid and is why i put him below AM (apart from the fact that y'know... he was actually beaten by AM).

Originally posted by abhilegend

They used his own power against him. Its not like they were more powerful than him.


It happened two times, first in JSA #58 where it happened off-panel and in JSA #63 they straight up overpowered him.

But either way, im not sure you understand how things work. Fact is, the Dr fate entity is more complex than just Nabu providing it with power like Galactus infusing surfer with the power cosmic. This is evident by the fact that Nabu himself says that the new Dr fate (utilizing the power of the trinity) is far more powerful than its predecessor. Going by your logic this would be impossible since adding a mere human to the dr fate entity would seem insignificant. However the amalgamation which i mentioned above could result in a power which can affect even nabu himself. Indeed we have seen this a couple of times. This was first shown in (though mostly ignored) Immortal Dr fate story when Inza and Kent merge to defeat lords of order/chaos (Ynar and vandaemon). In Dr Fate v2 #37, it's revealed that Inza was being powered by a lord of chaos all this time, and so she draws power from all the humans of earth - neither chaos nor order - to defeat him, then later in #41 she merged a lord of chaos with a lord of order. In JSA #50, Hector himself said that he possesses the energies of a hundred realms and the powers of both order and chaos (not just nabu), the same thing was mentioned in Dr fate v3 where he also managed to utterly destroy/atomize the curse, something which even Nabu was unable to do in his own battle with the curse. So Dr fate's power doesn't work like the power cosmic at all, it's capable of actually outperforming its master.


Onto Odin vs Nabu.

We have Nabu admitting that he can't manipulate time:

http://imgur.com/0wIRGMb

Odin can casually manipulate time. Actually, he even infused mjolnir with time capabilities described to be able to go from the beginning of time till the end of all things (as well as time stops) before Immortus drained its time powers (and even after that mjolnir still had limited time capabilities). But here's an instance where Odin personally stopped time on a planetary scale.

http://imgur.com/Fj9wDk4

Odin: 1 Nabu: 0

And honestly, looking at their averages, it's pretty clear that Odin is superior. Odin has multiple galactic battles, universal feats, and even multiversal ones, Nabu simply cannot compete.


Originally posted by abhilegend


Her very first appearance has her as a Lord of
Order .
http://imgur.com/HfdHF3N
Superman secret files 1999.
http://imgur.com/7MtxOMm
JLA A-Z
http://i.imgur.com/JFDX8Ei.jpg
All have her as a Lord of Order .


Her first appearance is saying exactly what i said: Kismet exists between light and dark (order and chaos).

I knew about the bios which is why i mentioned there is a contradiction.

But anyway. Nabu was only ever mentioned to be the most powerful of the lords in DoV where Spectre goes on a rampage killing all magic including the lords. The spectre also clearly not a lord of order yet your scan seems to imply that. so i guess Nabu is more powerful than the spectre as well, no? Despite the fact that the spectre entity was shown to be clearly above Nabu in Spectre v3.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Kismet herself said that there were other lords more powerful than her.

Nabu was weakened in his fight against Mordru.

Do you have a scan directly saying Nabu is more powerful than Kismet?

Mordru was stated to be weakened as well. All magic users were, in fact. Because it happened at the time of DoV. Also, for what it's worth, Mordru has battled Hector fate two times previously and they seemed about equal.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also for space cheese, Nabu created the universe within Fate's amulet which is beyond even Extant with Worloggog's ability to see. Odin has never been able to create a universe ex nihilo and neither has Galactus.

https://s13.postimg.org/aellizacz/14-07.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/qe492j6er/JSA_63_Hunter_Rose_-_DCP_pg07.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/5eo5b14qb/JSA_63_Hunter_Rose_-_DCP_pg10.jpg

The last page shows how Hector had stolen his power.

Yes it's been actually mentioned that the universe inside his helmet is completely separate from the rest of realities. Anyway, that universe is actually a pocket dimension, so im not sure it qualifies as a full blown universe, still impressive as hell.

Universe creation feat for odin: Odin created a sword named "raven's eye" which created a reality based on wagner's operas:

http://imgur.com/3SVWjSu

Also important to note is that the reality also contained the extra-dimensional realm Asgard.

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
That's not what the comic says.

http://imgur.com/tqVhxAz

Ok, but how is that going to affect Darkseid's performance as Black Racer was universal level there and he was needed to kill Darkseid.





So its basically you going "I don't like it so it doesn't matters."



Everybody has low showing. Heck, Galactus was just recently controlled by Fungus.

Further, Batman and Robin and World's end established that Darkseid is not at full power and Multiversity described all new gods as fractured among many universes.



Unless Highfather is that powerful as well. Why does ABC comparison only benefits marvel characters and lowers the DC characters?



And yet Darkseid had upper hand on an amped AM. Don't like that, do you?



That's the source of his power. What are you talking about?



With the help of Black Racer.





With his own power.



Yes, the power of trinity was capable of utilizing all of Nabu's power. Kent alone was never able to utilize Nabu's full power.




You know how childish you look? Odin himself said that he can't manipulate time in Fear Itself.

Further, Nabu would've reversed Zero Hour itself.





Odin has a lot of low showings as well. Nabu is a lot superior on average when you look how he has appeared in at most 50 issues.

And where did Odin has multiversal showings?




And she is herself a lord of order.





There isn't. Her origin herself said she was ascending to be a lord of order.




Going per the comic, yes. It's before Zero hour when Spectre was Depowered by The Word and the lords of order claimed that they were the Word in Phantom Stranger miniseries. Spectre also claimed that he was a servant of lords.

Spectre v3 retconned that Spectre was the wrath of God and above Lords.

And Nabu was straight up said to be the most powerful Lord of Order in Fate.

And Nabu is "The most powerful Lord of Order". Even after being weakened he beat Typhon with the power of every lord of order and chaos and was endangering "all reality" and "entire creation".
http://i.imgur.com/IdxHSXp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GrKfdwR.jpg
Lords of Order flat out said that he nearly wrought destruction of entire creation.
http://i.imgur.com/tnoSo7a.jpg
All of this while dimin
http://i.imgur.com/bO4emrv.jpg






Not at my PC. I will post it later.

No, magic was weakened. Nabu was weakened further because he appeared without a host body.

Mordru was weakened the second time and first time it was Nabu who beat him by taking him under the amulet.

Where is it said that it was a pocket universe? Scan please.

Don't try to bullshit me. Ravenseye was lodged into Yggdrasil which warped the already existing Asgard into a false Asgard. It also warped Odin into a hobo.

Where is a single universe creating feat from Odin or Galactus? Even Amethyst destroyed an entire reality created by Mordru in 31st century and she is far weaker than Nabu.

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok, but how is that going to affect Darkseid's performance as Black Racer was universal level there and he was needed to kill Darkseid.

So its basically you going "I don't like it so it doesn't matters."


You seem to have lost track of the point being made here. My entire point is that it wasn't Black racer helping AM to destroy darkseid. It was AM forcibly taking control of the racer which destroyed DS.

What are you even talking about? You asked why would i rate AM above DS, i provided proof of the reasons based on indicators outside of their fight. If you don't like my reasoning

Originally posted by abhilegend


Everybody has low showing. Heck, Galactus was just recently controlled by Fungus.

Further, Batman and Robin and World's end established that Darkseid is not at full power and Multiversity described all new gods as fractured among many universes.


That's the same darkseid that battled the anti monitor though. And two of those showings happened in the E2 series, the same one where DS fought multiversal Alan.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Unless Highfather is that powerful as well. Why does ABC comparison only benefits marvel characters and lowers the DC characters?

And yet Darkseid had upper hand on an amped AM. Don't like that, do you?

That's the source of his power. What are you talking about?


You're not listening. Kyle w/ life equation (which is the opposite to ALE) was well above Highfather and the new gods (who are locked in an eternal stalemate with DS). Yet AM is merged with ALE. Highfather was also pretty confident that he could beat darkseid with the equation. That's the indicators i was talking about. There is no lowballing here going on.

And yet, AM actually beat Darkseid. Something which you seem to be conveniently missing. It's not uncommon for a weaker character to temporarily gain an upper hand on a more powerful character only to lose in the end.

Not entirely as i recall. In Infinity man & the forever people series we're shown flashbacks of Uxas opposing his father yuga, killing him and his armies.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Yes, the power of trinity was capable of utilizing all of Nabu's power. Kent alone was never able to utilize Nabu's full power.


No you have that wrong. Nabu is actually one of the trinity:

http://imgur.com/JRZIM9k

Now, the dr fate entity should be wielded by nabu (who mostly acts as a guiding voice) along with the couples (male/female). In most cases, the dr fate entity draws its power from nabu, but in many other cases, it doesnt (see the examples i provided previously), so it's not entirely dependent on nabu's personal power. His independency is further supported by the fact that the amulet was revealed to have been created by anubis rather than nabu in JSA #42.

Originally posted by abhilegend


With the help of Black Racer.

With his own power.


I thought we settled this?

Irrelevant. they straight up overpowered him. Clearly depicted.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Odin has a lot of low showings as well. Nabu is a lot superior on average when you look how he has appeared in at most 50 issues.

And where did Odin has multiversal showings?


He doesn't really have a lot. In thor comics (including minis, one-shots, annual and other arcs which tie in with thor events), he has hundreds of appearances and i have calculated that he has 18 low showings. Nabu has about 7 or 8 in several dozen appearances.

His battle against Seth. And Odin once infused thor with OF to temporarily hold his own against thanos who gained multi-universal power (in Thor v2).

Originally posted by abhilegend


And she is herself a lord of order.

There isn't. Her origin herself said she was ascending to be a lord of order.


A direct statement from the comic would seal this.

But at this point, that's neither here or there.

Originally posted by abhilegend

You know how childish you look? Odin himself said that he can't manipulate time in Fear Itself.

Further, Nabu would've reversed Zero Hour itself.



What does any of this have to do with being childish...? Anyway, i don't recall Odin saying he can't manipulate time in FI, post a scan otherwise im not buying it.

Given time, yes, perhaps he could've. But he never demonstrated the casual reality warping/universal feats which Odin has.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Not at my PC. I will post it later.

No, magic was weakened. Nabu was weakened further because he appeared without a host body.

Mordru was weakened the second time and first time it was Nabu who beat him by taking him under the amulet.


Im eagerly awaiting your scan.

It doesn't change the fact that Mordru outright stated that "every spell feels like a mountain".

The second time as in the Princes of Darkness arc? I don't recall him being weakened there...
Yes, it's not like they battled and nabu overpowered him, he merely imprisoned him.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Going per the comic, yes. It's before Zero hour when Spectre was Depowered by The Word and the lords of order claimed that they were the Word in Phantom Stranger miniseries. Spectre also claimed that he was a servant of lords.

Spectre v3 retconned that Spectre was the wrath of God and above Lords.

And Nabu was straight up said to be the most powerful Lord of Order in Fate.

And Nabu is "The most powerful Lord of Order". Even after being weakened he beat Typhon with the power of every lord of order and chaos and was endangering "all reality" and "entire creation".
http://i.imgur.com/IdxHSXp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GrKfdwR.jpg
Lords of Order flat out said that he nearly wrought destruction of entire creation.
http://i.imgur.com/tnoSo7a.jpg
All of this while dimin
http://i.imgur.com/bO4emrv.jpg



Yes but Phantom stranger's source of power has been retconned. It's been ever changing actually, and so this is pretty much an isolated incident.

In AC #641-644 it's shown that PS's powers comes from humanity. In his solo series we're shown that the lords are his source of power and hence why they are able to depower him. In the Demon series he says that his power comes from a higher realm. In secret origins #10 we're shown that his power comes from the big bang (and this is the most likely origin since madame xanadu #10, the most recent account pre-FP, it's stated that his power comes from the beginning of time)

This is relevant because later on in in GL/Superman: Green of the flame, the lords couldn't do jack shit against the stranger.

Yes, this is actually Nabu's highest portrayal. No argument there.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Where is it said that it was a pocket universe? Scan please.


In the helmet of fate series:

http://imgur.com/xhY3fy1

On another note, the helmet in that series was depicted to be ridiculously powerful. Definitely worth mentioning in Nabu's favor. I mean, i would rather be inclined to post Nabu's good showings rather than his lows. But you're the one who forces me to do this when you ignore everything apart from his high showings. So the inevitable end result is that im the one who's low balling. That's me, the DC hater.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Don't try to bullshit me. Ravenseye was lodged into Yggdrasil which warped the already existing Asgard into a false Asgard. It also warped Odin into a hobo.

Where is a single universe creating feat from Odin or Galactus? Even Amethyst destroyed an entire reality created by Mordru in 31st century and she is far weaker than Nabu.

First of all there were different versions of characters in that reality, so it didn't warp them. Secondly, It created a new one. And the creation feat was specifically attributed to ravens eye not the tree. I already posted the scan.

When did that happen? im not sure i recall anything of the sort. Also, amethyst isn't that far weaker than Nabu really, she's quite powerful and has done some nifty things. But ok, Hela's battle with mephisto was about to cause omniversal destruction, yet hela is far weaker than Odin. Good luck trying to trump that.

Galan007
Originally posted by operator616
Anyway, i don't recall Odin saying he can't manipulate time in FI, post a scan otherwise im not buying it. http://i.imgur.com/fvaZimY.jpg
"Time is the one thing the All-Father cannot control..."

operator616
Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/fvaZimY.jpg
"Time is the one thing the All-Father cannot control..."

Alright. Although im not surprised. That series portrayed Odin in a very low manner except for the epilogue issue where Odin impressively shows Tony a glimpse of infinity and displays limited omnipresence.

Anyway, fair enough on this part.

Galan007
Originally posted by operator616
Alright. Although im not surprised. That series portrayed Odin in a very low manner except for the epilogue issue where Odin impressively shows Tony a glimpse of infinity and displays limited omnipresence.

Anyway, fair enough on this part. Fear Itself(more specifically: Matt Fraction) is really what started Odin's downward spiral into the absolute shit character he has become. He never recovered from that -- if anything, he's gotten worse. sad

As for the 'glimpse of the infinite' scene: it seemed to me that Odin merely shared his cosmic awareness with Tony for a brief moment... Which is cool and all, but hardly something I was overly impressed by. /shrug

beatboks
Originally posted by operator616
That's not what the comic says.

http://imgur.com/tqVhxAz



Ok, let me give you a full explanation why i put Darkseid not on the same level as AM, as there are several indicators why he should be below AM outside of their fight.

AM's base power is basically anti life equation. Which has been established to be a legitimate universal or even potentially multiversal (if it is indeed equal to the life equation) power.

Regarding Darkseid, Im going to put aside Darkseid's high showings (vs AM and vs multiversal Alan) as well as his low showings like having trouble with the JLA, power girl giving him trouble and tanking his beams, iirc Mr miracle also had a gadget (boom sphere?) which could absorb his power, and the hellbat fight. Darkseid's average power should be equal to highfather. Why is this the best way to gauge him, you ask? Because darkseid and his forces have been in an eternal stalemate with highfather and new genesis. If Darkseid was truly multiversal like you're claiming him to be, he'd have no problem handling Highfather and new genesis after eons of conflict. I mean, Kyle w/ life equation (which is equal/opposite to the ALE) was far above highfather and his forces. This is also further demonstrated by the fact that Darkseid is below ALE (established several times in the darkseid war). This is quite relevant because AM possesses the ALE.

Also, going by your logic, Darkseid was amped as well. since he absorbed the powers of the old gods in his origin story.

So yes, i definitely think this is a high showing for Darkseid and is why i put him below AM (apart from the fact that y'know... he was actually beaten by AM).



It happened two times, first in JSA #58 where it happened off-panel and in JSA #63 they straight up overpowered him.

But either way, im not sure you understand how things work. Fact is, the Dr fate entity is more complex than just Nabu providing it with power like Galactus infusing surfer with the power cosmic. This is evident by the fact that Nabu himself says that the new Dr fate (utilizing the power of the trinity) is far more powerful than its predecessor. Going by your logic this would be impossible since adding a mere human to the dr fate entity would seem insignificant. However the amalgamation which i mentioned above could result in a power which can affect even nabu himself. Indeed we have seen this a couple of times. This was first shown in (though mostly ignored) Immortal Dr fate story when Inza and Kent merge to defeat lords of order/chaos (Ynar and vandaemon). In Dr Fate v2 #37, it's revealed that Inza was being powered by a lord of chaos all this time, and so she draws power from all the humans of earth - neither chaos nor order - to defeat him, then later in #41 she merged a lord of chaos with a lord of order. In JSA #50, Hector himself said that he possesses the energies of a hundred realms and the powers of both order and chaos (not just nabu), the same thing was mentioned in Dr fate v3 where he also managed to utterly destroy/atomize the curse, something which even Nabu was unable to do in his own battle with the curse. So Dr fate's power doesn't work like the power cosmic at all, it's capable of actually outperforming its master.


Onto Odin vs Nabu.

We have Nabu admitting that he can't manipulate time:

http://imgur.com/0wIRGMb

Odin can casually manipulate time. Actually, he even infused mjolnir with time capabilities described to be able to go from the beginning of time till the end of all things (as well as time stops) before Immortus drained its time powers (and even after that mjolnir still had limited time capabilities). But here's an instance where Odin personally stopped time on a planetary scale.

http://imgur.com/Fj9wDk4

Odin: 1 Nabu: 0

And honestly, looking at their averages, it's pretty clear that Odin is superior. Odin has multiple galactic battles, universal feats, and even multiversal ones, Nabu simply cannot compete.




Her first appearance is saying exactly what i said: Kismet exists between light and dark (order and chaos).

I knew about the bios which is why i mentioned there is a contradiction.

But anyway. Nabu was only ever mentioned to be the most powerful of the lords in DoV where Spectre goes on a rampage killing all magic including the lords. The spectre also clearly not a lord of order yet your scan seems to imply that. so i guess Nabu is more powerful than the spectre as well, no? Despite the fact that the spectre entity was shown to be clearly above Nabu in Spectre v3.



Do you have a scan directly saying Nabu is more powerful than Kismet?

Mordru was stated to be weakened as well. All magic users were, in fact. Because it happened at the time of DoV. Also, for what it's worth, Mordru has battled Hector fate two times previously and they seemed about equal.



Yes it's been actually mentioned that the universe inside his helmet is completely separate from the rest of realities. Anyway, that universe is actually a pocket dimension, so im not sure it qualifies as a full blown universe, still impressive as hell.

Universe creation feat for odin: Odin created a sword named "raven's eye" which created a reality based on wagner's operas:

http://imgur.com/3SVWjSu

Also important to note is that the reality also contained the extra-dimensional realm Asgard.

While I dont disagree with Nabu below Odin (Just) the scan where he said he couldnt bend the flow of time was of Nabu in a mortal form (his ancient egyptian body) which weakens him significantly. There is a reason he needed to rest in that tomb and hand over the mantle. The same can be confirmed when Darkseid visited Nabu when he occupied Kents body. He stated there the limitations (which were MUCH greater considering just how much magic that body had wielded over 90 odd years). I mean surely we wouldnt place the limit on Nabu of struggling with great effort to magically pull back the overflown bath water as he did in that form???

I'm more curious why some have Corrigan Spec behind Hal. I'd agree GA Spec is but post SA (bronze age and modern) Jim would surely be superior, or is it a balancing of the overall portrayals?

Galan007
Originally posted by beatboks
I'm more curious why some have Corrigan Spec behind Hal. I'd agree GA Spec is but post SA (bronze age and modern) Jim would surely be superior, or is it a balancing of the overall portrayals? I posted this in another thread, but...

Originally posted by Galan007
It was pretty much spelled out towards the end of Spectre v4 that Hal had reached a pinnacle of power that no other hosts had, and *fully* bonded with the Spectre-Force.

So yeah, a full-potential Hal > Jim.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by abhilegend
Don't try to bullshit me. Ravenseye was lodged into Yggdrasil which warped the already existing Asgard into a false Asgard. It also warped Odin into a hobo.

Where is a single universe creating feat from Odin or Galactus? Even Amethyst destroyed an entire reality created by Mordru in 31st century and she is far weaker than Nabu.
They were transported to a fantasy reality.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/jr3c51.jpg

And transported back when Thor killed that reality's Odin(Wotan).
http://oi67.tinypic.com/8y6hp4.jpg

Originally posted by operator616

First of all there were different versions of characters in that reality, so it didn't warp them. Secondly, It created a new one. And the creation feat was specifically attributed to ravens eye not the tree. I already posted the scan.

thumb up

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
You seem to have lost track of the point being made here. My entire point is that it wasn't Black racer helping AM to destroy darkseid. It was AM forcibly taking control of the racer which destroyed DS.

And him helping the AM to kill Darkseid.



Him getting the help of arrival from Black Racer isn't on his own power.





He was healed before the fight when Apokolips devoured Earth 2.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1RaYP_AMB2w/VJGSGhTny5I/AAAAAAAGuq0/b6dKXUiOYVQ/s1600/p3_5%2Bcopy.jpg





Is there any indication that Life Equation is equal to Anti Life Equation save your assumption?



Of course there is.



If he was weaker than Anti Monitor, why did the AM absorb universes to fight him? You are conveniently forgetting that as well.



And this somehow amped him?





What are you talking about? It was clearly stated that Fate had never tapped the full power of Nabu and it required the merger of Inza to get him at full power.


The merger of trinity never exceeded the power of Nabu. That's just idiotic.



They does not mean AM alone.





Most of the low showings for him are when he was occupying mortal body and restrained in power.



The guy who had been struggling to beat Red Norvell? A hyperbolic statement from Dr Strange doesn't suddenly makes it multiversal.



Thor also had his belt of strength and Thanos shattered the shield casually.

In the same series, Dan Jurgens said Odin was planetary at best and had King Thor pass out from assembling a moon.





Sure. But you are still sore about Kismet being the Lord of Order?





I guess Galan answered that? Oh and Nabu took Mordru to time of Legion casually.



He was weakened and still could've destroyed the creation.





Nabu being weakened?





Nabu was weakened even further.





Your memory is faulty as ever.

https://s14.postimg.org/57kmrmz4t/JSA-051-04.jpg



That's not overpowering, eh?





Even there it was referred that Lords have deprived him of his power but the times have changed and now he is not their agent.



So it must not be taken into account, eh?





That's the pocket universe in the helmet. We are talking about the universe in the amulet.





What the **** are you talking about? All Odin did was fill Ravenseye with the memory of asgardians.

https://s1.postimg.org/6uujer0hn/image.jpg https://s1.postimg.org/qgj0ay2wr/image.jpg https://s1.postimg.org/qhsy4d4qj/image.jpg

Further Raven's eye was warping asgard due to fooling Yggdrasil. Its clearly stated as well.

https://s1.postimg.org/5fp5ab9qz/image.jpg

And when Thor was teleported, Dr Strange found his essence in Asgard.



Haha, right.

Legionnaires 18. Mysa destroys Mordru and Glorith's spell by separating them which was creating a new reality which coallpsed on itself.



Are you high or something? The only thing LT warned mephisto was that he was causing to shift the multiversal balance in Mephisto vs 4. Where is that omiversal destruction from?

Could you please post that scan?

abhilegend
Also the universe in the helmet was destroyed by Spectre in DOV. If there was another pocket universe inside it, it's not the same.

http://imgur.com/h2VKhOl

Bentley

Galan007
Originally posted by operator616
But ok, Hela's battle with mephisto was about to cause omniversal destruction, yet hela is far weaker than Odin. Good luck trying to trump that. Originally posted by abhilegend
Where is that omiversal destruction from?

Could you please post that scan? He's talking about this scene from Thunderstrike #15, I'm sure:
http://i.imgur.com/lT9nCll.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6CD39AC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cqvSQHK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AktkNrn.jpg

Second scan: "None but you would dare raise the dreaded specter of Omniversal Armageddon! The result would surely be undisputable annihilation absolute! Even the Ragnarok of Asgardian Legend would grovelingly pale in comparison!"

...And then Mephisto goes on to say that Odin's power is equal to his own, etc.



But christ... We aren't really trying to pretend like a battle between Mephisto and Hela would have *actually* destroyed the entire Omniverse, right..? blink

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
He's talking about this scene from Thunderstrike #15, I'm sure:
http://i.imgur.com/lT9nCll.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6CD39AC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cqvSQHK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AktkNrn.jpg

Second scan: "None but you would dare raise the dreaded specter of Omniversal Armageddon! The result would surely be undisputable annihilation absolute! Even the Ragnarok of Asgardian Legend would grovelingly pale in comparison!"

...And then Mephisto goes on to say that Odin's power is equal to his own, etc.



But christ... We aren't really trying to pretend like a battle between Mephisto and Hela would have *actually* destroyed the entire Omniverse, right..? blink
That's it? A hyperbole from Mephisto?

crylaugh

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
And him helping the AM to kill Darkseid.

Him getting the help of arrival from Black Racer isn't on his own power.


I posted a scan saying otherwise, but whatever.

Originally posted by abhilegend


He was healed before the fight when Apokolips devoured Earth 2.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1RaYP_AMB2w/VJGSGhTny5I/AAAAAAAGuq0/b6dKXUiOYVQ/s1600/p3_5%2Bcopy.jpg



Lol, so this is the same mr miracle instance from E2 #11 which i referenced....

I mean, seriously that's your proof? You do realize this happened before his battles with PG (and RT), right?

Originally posted by abhilegend

Is there any indication that Life Equation is equal to Anti Life Equation save your assumption?


Yes. In Darkseid war. The all-knowing Batman was witnessing the creation of the mainstream universe and he said that the white light (life equation) was the source of its creation. While the anti life equation was the source of the anti-matter universe.

http://imgur.com/a/W3ZyI

Originally posted by abhilegend


What are you talking about? It was clearly stated that Fate had never tapped the full power of Nabu and it required the merger of Inza to get him at full power.


The merger of trinity never exceeded the power of Nabu. That's just idiotic.


Your stance is the idiotic one. Ive provided proof while you provided jack shit.

Repost:

Indeed we have seen this a couple of times. This was first shown in (though mostly ignored) Immortal Dr fate story when Inza and Kent merge to defeat lords of order/chaos (Ynar and vandaemon). In Dr Fate v2 #37, it's revealed that Inza was being powered by a lord of chaos all this time, and so she draws power from all the humans of earth - neither chaos nor order - to defeat him, then later in #41 she merged a lord of chaos with a lord of order. In JSA #50, Hector himself said that he possesses the energies of a hundred realms and the powers of both order and chaos (not just nabu), the same thing was mentioned in Dr fate v3 where he also managed to utterly destroy/atomize the curse, something which even Nabu was unable to do in his own battle with the curse. So Dr fate's power doesn't work like the power cosmic at all, it's capable of actually outperforming its master.

Let me know if you need the scans posted. What i posted is actual proof unlike what you have.

Originally posted by abhilegend

If he was weaker than Anti Monitor, why did the AM absorb universes to fight him? You are conveniently forgetting that as well.

And this somehow amped him?


Perhaps because AM didn't know DS's true power level. He knew that he was extremely powerful but not exactly. Or he maybe he wanted to go for the overkill, the more the better.

You can respond back when you're thoroughly following the discussion at hand.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Most of the low showings for him are when he was occupying mortal body and restrained in power.

The guy who had been struggling to beat Red Norvell? A hyperbolic statement from Dr Strange doesn't suddenly makes it multiversal.


What are you talking about? Nabu first had difficulty adjusting to Kent's body but was never stated to be weakened, in fact it was implied the exact opposite, i remember a dr fate annual stating that pouring Nabu's consciousness is not unlike pouring the entire universe into an eyedropper, meaning that his full power can be transferred to a human host but he has difficulty adjusting to it (at first). He was never stated to be weakened in JSA either.

Originally posted by abhilegend

The guy who had been struggling to beat Red Norvell? A hyperbolic statement from Dr Strange doesn't suddenly makes it multiversal.

Thor also had his belt of strength and Thanos shattered the shield casually.

In the same series, Dan Jurgens said Odin was planetary at best and had King Thor pass out from assembling a moon.


Strange is an expert on the nature and workings of the multiverse, id take his word in such things to be pretty accurate. Also even before Strange's comment the battle was stated to wage on every plane of existence (in this context, referring to universes).

All of thor's items were increased by the OF so it's not relevant. Anyway, Thor straight up defeated him:

http://imgur.com/BtlpBu9
http://imgur.com/3KbcnQs
http://imgur.com/3KbcnQs
http://imgur.com/vNNkHN0
http://imgur.com/DVVq48x
http://imgur.com/TM7FiiP
http://imgur.com/klELzlO

I also failed to mention that what makes this showing even more impressive is the fact that Odin was severely weakened.

Originally posted by abhilegend


In the same series, Dan Jurgens said Odin was planetary at best and had King Thor pass out from assembling a moon.


Nice try, but that was before it was revealed in issue 60 that Thor had mental blocks. It was blatantly stated that reassembling the moon is literally minimal in comparison to the OF's true potential.

http://imgur.com/i0YhgZq

Originally posted by abhilegend


Sure. But you are still sore about Kismet being the Lord of Order?

I guess Galan answered that? Oh and Nabu took Mordru to time of Legion casually.

He was weakened and still could've destroyed the creation.


What?

Yes, that's settled.

Most likely he could've but im curious why do you consider this to be genuine while Odin's seth battle to be hyperbole.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Nabu being weakened?



Again: Follow the particular point your quoting, what's up with that? Anyway, you said that you have a scan of Nabu being more powerful than kismet. Post it already.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Your memory is faulty as ever.

https://s14.postimg.org/57kmrmz4t/JSA-051-04.jpg



Stop acting condescending with those snide comments.

And that's your proof? You do realize that all this proves that Mordru was weakened during the battle with the JSA, right? Show me proof that he was weakened before the battle.

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend


That's not overpowering, eh?

Even there it was referred that Lords have deprived him of his power but the times have changed and now he is not their agent.

So it must not be taken into account, eh?


No it isn't. It was a sneaky ambush attack.

Ok? That's what i basically said and was my counter to your point.

Did i say that?

Originally posted by abhilegend


What the **** are you talking about? All Odin did was fill Ravenseye with the memory of asgardians.

https://s1.postimg.org/6uujer0hn/image.jpg https://s1.postimg.org/qgj0ay2wr/image.jpg https://s1.postimg.org/qhsy4d4qj/image.jpg

Further Raven's eye was warping asgard due to fooling Yggdrasil. Its clearly stated as well.

https://s1.postimg.org/5fp5ab9qz/image.jpg

And when Thor was teleported, Dr Strange found his essence in Asgard.


Everything you just said is wrong. Every single thing.


1) It was plainly stated that the sword's magic created the particular reality

http://imgur.com/diTLQyV

2) Index confirmation:

http://imgur.com/Yn7gW73

See locations & items: It says that it is Ludwig's fantasy world including Asgard.

See also the issue synopsis which confirms that the sword's magic created the reality.

3) "the thor of one world battles the thor of another":

http://imgur.com/PiFIjfW

Do you really need any more proof?

Lastly: Your last scan is completely irrelevant, lol. It's a separate story-line. It's revealed (in JiM #506 i believe) that it was Odin himself who magically "convinced" the tree that ragnarock has occurred thus stripping all asgardians of their powers. Raven's eye creating a separate reality has nothing to do with that.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Legionnaires 18. Mysa destroys Mordru and Glorith's spell by separating them which was creating a new reality which coallpsed on itself.


laughing out loud You were referring to the end of an era arc? I expected there was twist to the version of events which you provided. And you never fail to disappoint.

all she did was blast Mordru away from Glorith, disrupting their universal spell which required them to physically join together. It didn't even harm mordru:

http://imgur.com/Mho3UiS

facepalm Holy f*ck that's the "universe destroying" feat you were referring? In what way, shape or form is this a universal destruction feat for her?

And just as an added bonus: Odin did pretty much what your twisted version of amethyst did. He temporarily overpowered Uthana-Thoth whose power held universal destruction in check.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Are you high or something? The only thing LT warned mephisto was that he was causing to shift the multiversal balance in Mephisto vs 4. Where is that omiversal destruction from?

Could you please post that scan?

I like how you can be condescending yet so wrong at the same time.

I was referring to thunderstrike #15, as pointed out by Galan.

Next time, at least know your shit before making snide comments. And don't blame me for the hostility, you started it, which is business as usual for you.

Originally posted by abhilegend


That's the pocket universe in the helmet. We are talking about the universe in the amulet.


Correct, for some reason i confused the two. My bad i didn't pay attention.

beatboks
Originally posted by Galan007
I posted this in another thread, but...

Thanks, but what I want to know is are there actual feats for Hal Spec that show him above the bronze age version of Jim. Based on what I'd seen I cant think of any (but may have missed them)

operator616
Originally posted by beatboks
While I dont disagree with Nabu below Odin (Just) the scan where he said he couldnt bend the flow of time was of Nabu in a mortal form (his ancient egyptian body) which weakens him significantly. There is a reason he needed to rest in that tomb and hand over the mantle. The same can be confirmed when Darkseid visited Nabu when he occupied Kents body. He stated there the limitations (which were MUCH greater considering just how much magic that body had wielded over 90 odd years). I mean surely we wouldnt place the limit on Nabu of struggling with great effort to magically pull back the overflown bath water as he did in that form???

I'm more curious why some have Corrigan Spec behind Hal. I'd agree GA Spec is but post SA (bronze age and modern) Jim would surely be superior, or is it a balancing of the overall portrayals?

Was it ever stated that the mortal form JSA Nabu was weakened? Because i don't recall. The Nabu in Fate's series had trouble adjusting with Kent's body, more-so than he was weakened. His state was described as pouring the entire universe into an eyedropper, because he had infinite consciousness which is incapable of being compatible in a human body (i believe this was shown in dr fate v2 #13 and annual #1 if i remember)

See Galan's post. Even before his solo series Hal was stated to have the potential to become the most powerful spectre in Legends of DCU #33-36. In his solo series, Hal actually changed the Spectre entity from a spirit of vengeance to a spirit of redemption which is why he became less violent and angry from the previous hosts and could also directly tap into the power of the presence (the logoz, something which no previous host ever had). And even then, he was still getting more and more powerful (Spectre v4 #10 and #17). In one of those instances he utilized the power of the logoz to easily dispatch a jokerized version of Parallax like nothing. He then went subconsciously creating universes based on his desires. So yeah, he was pretty much the most impressive.

Originally posted by Galan007
He's talking about this scene from Thunderstrike #15, I'm sure:
http://i.imgur.com/lT9nCll.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6CD39AC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cqvSQHK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AktkNrn.jpg

Second scan: "None but you would dare raise the dreaded specter of Omniversal Armageddon! The result would surely be undisputable annihilation absolute! Even the Ragnarok of Asgardian Legend would grovelingly pale in comparison!"

...And then Mephisto goes on to say that Odin's power is equal to his own, etc.



But christ... We aren't really trying to pretend like a battle between Mephisto and Hela would have *actually* destroyed the entire Omniverse, right..? blink

I was more following the line of Abhi's logic and i had a gut feeling that he had his own twisted version of the events. Turns out i was right.

But to answer your question, no, i wouldn't use this as definitive proof that hela or mephisto are omniversal.

beatboks
Originally posted by operator616
Was it ever stated that the mortal form JSA Nabu was weakened? Because i don't recall. The Nabu in Fate's series had trouble adjusting with Kent's body, more-so than he was weakened. His state was described as pouring the entire universe into an eyedropper, because he had infinite consciousness which is incapable of being compatible in a human body (i believe this was shown in dr fate v2 #13 and annual #1 if i remember)

See Galan's post. Even before his solo series Hal was stated to have the potential to become the most powerful spectre in Legends of DCU #33-36. In his solo series, Hal actually changed the Spectre entity from a spirit of vengeance to a spirit of redemption which is why he became less violent and angry from the previous hosts and could also directly tap into the power of the presence (the logoz, something which no previous host ever had). And even then, he was still getting more and more powerful (Spectre v4 #10 and #17). In one of those instances he utilized the power of the logoz to easily dispatch a jokerized version of Parallax like nothing. He then went subconsciously creating universes based on his desires. So yeah, he was pretty much the most impressive.



I was more following the line of Abhi's logic and i had a gut feeling that he had his own twisted version of the events. Turns out i was right.

But to answer your question, no, i wouldn't use this as definitive proof that hela or mephisto are omniversal.

It didnt state so in JSA no, but in several tellings of Kent's origin it mentioned that Nabu had been entombed to rest because of the energies he'd used and That the rest hadnt been enough to restore him. There is also the fact that when Inza trapped Shat -ru in Kents body Kent (in his new body) stated that Shat-ru would have to restrict his energy use or he would be spread across the galaxy and it would take time to reform.

That combined with Phantom Stranger once explaining that the use of high magic directly through a mortal form weakened it (the reason most used talismans, familiars or drew power through beings of power). Also Shat ru at the end of that run explained that magic used through only a single mortal could destroy it (the reason several neighbors offered to be a focus for Inza)

operator616
Originally posted by beatboks
It didnt state so in JSA no, but in several tellings of Kent's origin it mentioned that Nabu had been entombed to rest because of the energies he'd used and That the rest hadnt been enough to restore him. There is also the fact that when Inza trapped Shat -ru in Kents body Kent (in his new body) stated that Shat-ru would have to restrict his energy use or he would be spread across the galaxy and it would take time to reform.

That combined with Phantom Stranger once explaining that the use of high magic directly through a mortal form weakened it (the reason most used talismans, familiars or drew power through beings of power). Also Shat ru at the end of that run explained that magic used through only a single mortal could destroy it (the reason several neighbors offered to be a focus for Inza)

The lords are energy beings, and its in their very nature that their powers are limited on the physical plane (stated so in the first arc of Dr Fate v2). Which is why they use agents instead of employing their own powers. I don't consider this depowerment.

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
Also the universe in the helmet was destroyed by Spectre in DOV. If there was another pocket universe inside it, it's not the same.

http://imgur.com/h2VKhOl

I forgot about this.

the helmet of fate series happened directly after DoV in which spectre had burned out that universe. So the scan is saying that the helmet burned out the last remnants of that pocket universe which spectre had destroyed. This doesn't diminish what the spectre did though. Im merely saying this for clarification purposes.

beatboks
Originally posted by operator616
The lords are energy beings, and its in their very nature that their powers are limited on the physical plane (stated so in the first arc of Dr Fate v2). Which is why they use agents instead of employing their own powers. I don't consider this depowerment.

Depowerment is probably the wrong term, I just always saw the Lords of Order and Chaos as more limited. In any corporeal form than in a sheer energy state.when Mordru first possessed the wizard from Amethysts home world he was also much weaker until he also bonded the soul of the wizard to the mortal form as well. Essentially giving two life forces for the power to go thru (much as the intended way for a merged Fate). He did the same thing when he possessed Arion also (bonded his soul) which was used as a specific means to weaken him briefly in Hector's fight with Mordru. Even before the " merged fate" concept the helm always had an entity within it that shared existance with the host. When Inza and Kent first merged it spoke of the shared consciousness between all three, etc.

The theme of a single mortal existance using the power of a lord of order limiting how much power they could use just always seems to be consistently portrayed to me.

Or, lets put it this way. I dont see Nabu in the form he was in JSA ever accomplishing what he did as a pure energy form in DOV.

Galan007
Originally posted by operator616
See Galan's post. Even before his solo series Hal was stated to have the potential to become the most powerful spectre in Legends of DCU #33-36. In his solo series, Hal actually changed the Spectre entity from a spirit of vengeance to a spirit of redemption which is why he became less violent and angry from the previous hosts and could also directly tap into the power of the presence (the logoz, something which no previous host ever had). And even then, he was still getting more and more powerful (Spectre v4 #10 and #17). In one of those instances he utilized the power of the logoz to easily dispatch a jokerized version of Parallax like nothing. He then went subconsciously creating universes based on his desires. So yeah, he was pretty much the most impressive. thumb up

Hal/Spectre casually owning Jokerllax is one of his more impressive showings, imo:
https://s5d3.turboimg.net/t1/35101803_TheSpectrev4_10-18.jpg https://s5d3.turboimg.net/t1/35101804_TheSpectrev4_10-19.jpg https://s5d3.turboimg.net/t1/35101805_TheSpectrev4_10-20.jpg https://s5d3.turboimg.net/t1/35101806_TheSpectrev4_10-21.jpg

Jokerllax cast Hal into "a void beyond ALL voids: infinite nothingness. The cosmic emptiness that exists before THOUGHT. Before FORM. Before YOU..." -- Morrison has since defined this 'place' as the Overvoid.

But despite being thrown into the Overvoid and erased at a metatextual level, Hal returned in the space of a single page, more powerful than ever -- able to tap directly into the power of the Logoz/Presence at will.

...And he only got more adept/powerful from there. thumb up

beatboks
Originally posted by Galan007
thumb up

Hal/Spectre casually owning Jokerllax is one of his more impressive showings, imo:
https://s5d3.turboimg.net/t1/35101803_TheSpectrev4_10-18.jpg https://s5d3.turboimg.net/t1/35101804_TheSpectrev4_10-19.jpg https://s5d3.turboimg.net/t1/35101805_TheSpectrev4_10-20.jpg https://s5d3.turboimg.net/t1/35101806_TheSpectrev4_10-21.jpg

Jokerllax cast Hal into "a void beyond ALL voids: infinite nothingness. The cosmic emptiness that exists before THOUGHT. Before FORM. Before YOU..." -- Morrison has since defined this 'place' as the Overvoid.

But despite being thrown into the Overvoid and erased at a metatextual level, Hal returned in the space of a single page, more powerful than ever -- able to tap directly into the power of the Logoz/Presence at will.

...And he only got more adept/powerful from there. thumb up

Thanks galan, what issue is this from?? ( I'll have to pick it up). I hadnt seen anything from Hal near this

Galan007
That specific showing is from Spectre v4 #10.

Galan007
*Also keep in mind that the Jokerllax scene occurred WELL before Hal had fully bonded with the Spectre-Force:
http://i.imgur.com/z9kBxCc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4tRva2s.jpg
"You can call me a manifested aspect of your... Unconscious mind. Latent, untapped energy that you haven't been aware of. That you haven't earned in the eyes of God... Till NOW." - issue #17


Once he merged with this dormant aspect/power, Hal became FAR more powerful -- a bonafide multiversal entity:
http://i.imgur.com/uwJXyed.jpg
"The Hand of the Divine reaches across space and time... Across ALL the limitless planes of existence."


You may have also noted that Hal mentioned his other 'aspects' in the above scene, so hopefully that didn't confuse you. HAL...and Hal alone...was the central consciousness of the entire Spectre-Force. HAL...and Hal alone...was 'Spectre-Prime'. The countless aspects roaming the multiverse were mere reflections of himself that he ultimately gained full command/control over:
http://i.imgur.com/k2hGc97.jpg



*And for the lulz... Hal stated the power he possessed as Parallax was utterly insignificant when compared to that of Spectre:
http://i.imgur.com/yOHMGZ8.jpg
"I thought Green Lantern's was the ultimate power. I knew what it was to wield enough naked energy to alter time and space. To change the universes... But compared to the Wrath, GL's power is like a flickering candle beside an exploding sun."

I'm confident that Hal was using his stint as Parallax(ala Zero Hour) as a comparison there, because that was the *only* other time he possessed the power to muck with time/space and "change the universeS". IOW, even as a complete n00b it was still implied that Hal/Spectre > ZH Parallax. smile

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
I posted a scan saying otherwise, but whatever.

Right. Black Racer didn't help AM kill Darkseid, eh?





Yes, and Darkseid was interrupted before he devoured the heart of Apokolips to gain full strength.






Except white light is not shown to be Life Equation. What kyle was given AFTER the entities sacrificed themselves to fill the source wall.

Life Equation was the root code of reality written on source wall.



This has nothing to do with Nabu at all.



Hector was channeling both chaos and Order and yet Nabu treated him like a joke and imprisoned him into his own body.

He defeated Curse with the exploitation that he was pure chaos and encased him in a sphere of pure order.

Let me know if you want the scans posted.



Right. Go on and show us Nabu wielding the full power as a human host.





That's just hilarious. Go on and show us all by the scans about why AM thought it was overkill when he got his ass handed to him AFTER the amps.



You can too.





Is that so?

http://i.imgur.com/u6eJFw3.jpg

I'm still waiting for the scans where Nabu had the full power in his human form.



He said only galaxies are in peril. Not the multiverse. And Odin actually lost that fight before red norvell and others distracted Seth.

And the same Seth had to use all his realm's power to beat Loki.



That was after Strange's comments.



Thor got his ass handed to him and only after he shattered the illumination stone he could beat Thanosi.

What made you think Thanosi was multi-universal when he wasn't able to kill normal Thor after he was trapped in his energy beam?



Right. How is it impressive if Thor only beat Thanosi after destroying the stone?





Yes, but it was limited to planetary level as per the writer.





Good to know.



Because the narration started from planet quivering to galaxy destruction yet the asgardians beneath them suffered nothing. Also Seth intended to destroy the universe by destroying Yggdrasil.





I will. You have yet to refute the scan from DOV.





Why?



What? He curbstomped entire JSA and ripped the starheart out of Alan, defeated Thunderbolt and whatnot. Why would I try to show that he was weakened before that?

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
No it isn't. It was a sneaky ambush attack.

What the ****? How was it a sneak attack when the helmet defeated Mordru?



Yes, it shows that the LOO are not powered down, Stranger was changed.



Yes.





Hahaha, the sheer gall is amazing here.




Thor speculating isn't the clear statement. Dr Strange flat out said that this all happened due to Ravenseye lodged into Yggdrasil and he found Thor's essence into Asgard after Thor was teleported.

https://s1.postimg.org/s9lwz9o3j/image.jpg

https://s1.postimg.org/8mjotxu73/image.jpg

You don't get to twist this.



Yes, Thor was in Asgard warped by Yggdrasil which also depowered Dr Strange when he located Thor into asgard and went there. Where is a new reality formed by Raveneye?



No, it was revealed that Yggdrasil was weakened when Odin stripped off the memory of Asgardians using science and magic and hence it was convinced ragnarok had already happened.

https://s4.postimg.org/ouhexubll/image.jpg https://s4.postimg.org/6g6vtuzax/Journey_into_Mystery_511_09.jpg https://s4.postimg.org/ldfcuvcjd/Journey_into_Mystery_511_10.jpg

But tell us more about how Odin did all that with his own magic.





Yes, and the reality collapsed. Still more than Odin has ever done.







That's it? Mordru alone stalemated Time Trapper (Glorith) who held the wave of entropy to ensure pocket universe wasn't destroyed.





I knew about that one as well. I just didn't know you will be so desperate to cite that one.



Next time, try to use hyperbole from someone even remotely credible.





C'mon man, you can show us Odin being able to create a universe. Start twisting some more scans.

operator616
Originally posted by Galan007
*Also keep in mind that the Jokerllax scene occurred WELL before Hal had fully bonded with the Spectre-Force:
http://i.imgur.com/z9kBxCc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4tRva2s.jpg
"You can call me a manifested aspect of your... Unconscious mind. Latent, untapped energy that you haven't been aware of. That you haven't earned in the eyes of God... Till NOW." - issue #17


Once he merged with this dormant aspect/power, Hal became FAR more powerful -- a bonafide multiversal entity:
http://i.imgur.com/uwJXyed.jpg
"The Hand of the Divine reaches across space and time... Across ALL the limitless planes of existence."


You may have also noted that Hal mentioned his other 'aspects' in the above scene, so hopefully that didn't confuse you. HAL...and Hal alone...was the central consciousness of the entire Spectre-Force. HAL...and Hal alone...was 'Spectre-Prime'. The countless aspects roaming the multiverse were mere reflections of himself that he ultimately gained full command/control over:
http://i.imgur.com/k2hGc97.jpg



*And for the lulz... Hal stated the power he possessed as Parallax was utterly insignificant when compared to that of Spectre:
http://i.imgur.com/yOHMGZ8.jpg
"I thought Green Lantern's was the ultimate power. I knew what it was to wield enough naked energy to alter time and space. To change the universes... But compared to the Wrath, GL's power is like a flickering candle beside an exploding sun."

I'm confident that Hal was using his stint as Parallax(ala Zero Hour) as a comparison there, because that was the *only* other time he possessed the power to muck with time/space and "change the universeS". IOW, even as a complete n00b it was still implied that Hal/Spectre > ZH Parallax. smile

thumb up

I initially thought that he was referring to his regular GL power but upon further investigation i have to agree with your interpretation.

To expand on what you said: Hal indeed was referring to ZHP. I have read every appearance for Hal and he has never been able to warp space-time/universe. He has many molecular and matter manipulation feats, as well as time feats (he could easily time travel and had planetary time manipulation feats) but he has never actually affected space-time/universe until the ZHP arc. So i can say with 100% confidence that he was referring to ZHP.

So basically we have:

ZHP (the guy who had enough power to recreate the infinite multiverse while also engaging Corrigan-Spectre in a battle): Flickering candle
Rookie Hal-Spectre: Exploding sun.

no expression ...that's ridiculously overpowered shit right there. And it's straight up from the guy who wielded BOTH powers. Which would make him closer to Beyonder's power than your regular abstract entities.

Actually i always regarded Hal Spectre on par with HOTI Thanos because of his ability to directly tap in the Presence's power at will (something which no other version of spectre could do). This just goes on to re-affirm my view.

Again, Props for pointing this out. thumb up

abhilegend
Odin vs Seth
. One of Odin's best feats or perhaps THE best. Odin busts his balls off to beat Seth after getting his ass handed to him in first round.

https://s15.postimg.org/lz02m0kaz/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-002.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/5pehwuz0r/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-009.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/4w1w48szv/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-010.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/uqbou0szv/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-011.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/4xbtxnutn/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-012.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/gim05dgaz/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-013.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/4ludkwedn/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-014.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/py1vikybv/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-016.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/405eosjbf/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-017.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/5ggx6xm8b/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-018.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/lfzkqhia3/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-019.jpg

Dr Fate vs Seth. Fate is not even looking at him while binding him.

https://s11.postimg.org/o1tzxrk5v/034-_Avengers-_JLA_004_Rembrandt-_DCP.jpg

laughing out loud

operator616
Odin was weakened and unable to adjust to his powers in his battle with Seth. After he regained his full power, he easily stomped Seth. Also, Odin's superiority to seth has been shown several times prior, particularly in thor's battle against the egyptian gods, and when Odin had depowered himself to infuse thor with OF to fight surtur, while odin in a depowered state was holding his own against seth.

Also im not sure how blinding = defeating. The wasp once managed to blind an amped Tyrak who was handling the entire avengers, so i guess Wasp > Tyrak > Avengers. Yeah, but whatever.

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
Odin was weakened and unable to adjust to his powers in his battle with Seth. After he regained his full power, he easily stomped Seth.

Thunderstrike with bloodaxe stomped him harder under the same writer.

https://s13.postimg.org/6p3048b0j/Thunderstrike23p08.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/w95aanweb/Thunderstrike23p09.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/hh5mgfwsj/Thunderstrike23p11.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/gqcwanuf7/Thunderstrike23p12.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/gnt0ntqrn/Thunderstrike23p14.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/x032dk537/Thunderstrike23p15.jpg

He even killed his physical body which Odin was unable to do and could only banish him.



Yeah, where Seth was stated to rival Thor in power?



He absorbed power from Asgard to do so. Not under his own power.



Fate kept him bound. Not blinded.

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
Thunderstrike with bloodaxe stomped him harder under the same writer.

https://s13.postimg.org/6p3048b0j/Thunderstrike23p08.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/w95aanweb/Thunderstrike23p09.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/hh5mgfwsj/Thunderstrike23p11.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/gqcwanuf7/Thunderstrike23p12.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/gnt0ntqrn/Thunderstrike23p14.jpg https://s13.postimg.org/x032dk537/Thunderstrike23p15.jpg

He even killed his physical body which Odin was unable to do and could only banish him.

Yeah, where Seth was stated to rival Thor in power?

He absorbed power from Asgard to do so. Not under his own power.



Fate kept him bound. Not blinded.

Seth easily stomped bloodaxe (who's = or > Thunderstrike iirc). It was only after TS merged his hammer with axe he was able to defeat Seth. But anyway, the main point is Odin was weakened in his battle with Seth in JiM #513, and shortly after he regained his power, he easily handled Seth. How nice of you to ignore that.

Not sure how's that relevant. My point still stands.

Seriously? It was made crystal clear that it was still far weaker than his full power state. That's the point.

Yeah, whatever. You were the one who said Fate blinded him anyway. But Im not going back and forth with you again. Believe what you wish i don't give a damn, tbh.

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
Seth easily stomped bloodaxe (who's = or > Thunderstrike iirc). It was only after TS merged his hammer with axe he was able to defeat Seth. But anyway, the main point is Odin was weakened in his battle with Seth in JiM #513, and shortly after he regained his power, he easily handled Seth. How nice of you to ignore that.

Even the merged Thunderstrike+Bloodaxe was just about equal to Thor in power as shown in the very next issue.

Odin was at full power, he lost earlier because he had artificial memories implanted in his mind by himself.

As if beating a Thor level god is so much impressive. Darkseid has dispatched Orion with a wave of his hands.



Where?



Losing makes someone do that tbh.

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
Even the merged Thunderstrike+Bloodaxe was just about equal to Thor in power as shown in the very next issue.

Odin was at full power, he lost earlier because he had artificial memories implanted in his mind by himself.

As if beating a Thor level god is so much impressive. Darkseid has dispatched Orion with a wave of his hands.



Odin wasn't at full power.

http://imgur.com/6IU5wMA

+

http://imgur.com/Mo3hcWs

Originally posted by abhilegend


Where?


He didn't have the odinforce, what more proof do you want?

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
Odin wasn't at full power.

http://imgur.com/6IU5wMA

+

http://imgur.com/Mo3hcWs



He didn't have the odinforce, what more proof do you want?
Seth flat out says that he had already regained his power but still had the mind of a mortal.

https://s15.postimg.org/lz02m0kaz/Journey_Into_Mystery_513-002.jpg

He wasn't Depowered though. He absorbed power from Asgard and it wasn't shown if he was weaker than before or not.

MrMind
Galactus 100
Ganthet 75
Odin 80
Nabu 130
Parallax (Host) 90 zero hour parallax 500
Darkseid (New 52) 300
Uatu the Watcher 80
Exitar 120
Anti Monitor (New 52)300
Spectre (Hal Jordan) 500
Spectre (Jim Corrigan)500

Diesldude
Could AM kill DS without the black racer?

cdtm
Originally posted by abhilegend
If Galactus (Fed on one planet) is 100 in power, rate below characters. Not in order.

Ganthet 90
Odin 80
Nabu 99
Parallax (Host) 200
Darkseid (New 52) 300
Uatu the Watcher 50
Exitar 60
Anti Monitor (New 52) 400
Spectre (Hal Jordan) 500
Spectre (Jim Corrigan) 600

abhilegend
Bump

carver9
A low ft must be popped up for Galactus? I'm sure that is the case and that is the reason this thread was bumped.

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