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No weapons or armor. Just plain street clothes.
Bane knows about WS metal arm and how powerful it is. He fights to the best of his ability.
Fight is to ko or incapacitation.

Who wins?

Are we using what is shown or what is implied, IE writer's intent?

I dont see how this match would be anything else other than spite against Bane.

WS 11/10

Bane stands absolutely no chance. I don't think Bane could even take out human Thor, let alone any super soldier.

Winter Soldier punches Bane's mask through his face lmao.

Bucky tosses Bane around like the normal guy he is.

Bane gets completely and utterly overwhelmed in this fight...

Originally posted by Silent Master
Are we using what is shown or what is implied, IE writer's intent? Writer's intent is most important and supercedes all.

WS wins with only his human arm. Repeated punches to the mask.

I disagree. Bane has the skills and quickness to make it extremely hard for WS to hit him with the metal arm.
Bane is strong enough to do some real damage to WS.
Bane might break WS's back.

I see this fight as 6/10 WS.

Bucky in his current form of only having one arm would wreck Bane with ease. Bucky at full strength, Bane goes down with contemptuous ease. This is a no contest.

Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree. Bane has the skills and quickness to make it extremely hard for WS to hit him with the metal arm.
Bane is strong enough to do some real damage to WS.
Bane might break WS's back.

I see this fight as 6/10 WS.

He isn't at all. WS has the same super serum cap has. His one human arm is enough to kill bane outright. Bucky fell hundreds of feet without breaking any bones. Bane is likely to get one shotted right out the gate with one hard hit to the face.

Originally posted by h1a8
Writer's intent is most important and supercedes all.

Then WS wins 10/10

This is simple. Bucky can do literally everything Bane did, but better. Bucky for example wouldn't have been injured in the Lazarus Pit. He'd have just murdered everyone.

The opposite is not true. Bane can't do much of anything Bucky did. Can't book it down the highway at 40+mph, can't toss a superhuman like Cap around. Etc etc...

lol I needed a laugh so thanks H1

in regards to this match.. Bane loses 100,000,000,000,000x times over..

Bucky can literally one shot him

Originally posted by h1a8
Writer's intent is most important and supercedes all.

Per writer's intention Bane is a highly skilled human and Winter Soldier is a highly skilled superhuman

Superhuman > Human. thus WS wins 10/10.

Agreed with Rob, agree with Silent, agree with everyone: Bucky wins via punch to Bane's grill.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Per writer's intention Bane is a highly skilled human and Winter Soldier is a highly skilled superhuman

Superhuman > Human. thus WS wins 10/10.

They are both human and enhanced.
Can no human do what Bane did.

If Bane blocks or ducks a punch from WS and counters with a vicious blow then he has a good chance to win the fight.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Agreed with Rob, agree with Silent, agree with everyone: Bucky wins via punch to Bane's grill. It would be very difficult for WS to land a punch to Bane's head.

Originally posted by h1a8
They are both human and enhanced.
Can no human do what Bane did.

If Bane blocks or ducks a punch from WS and counters with a vicious blow then he has a good chance to win the fight.

We are only arguing writer's intention, Bane was meant to be a highly-skilled human whereas Winter Soldier is a highly-skilled superhuman.

Therefore using writers intentions, Winter Soldier wins

Who did Bane fight? He went 50/50 against the worst Batman on the silver screen.

Bucky beat Cap twice definitely and fought him evenly several times. Had decent fights with Panther as well.

Showcased clear superhuman feats like outrunning cars and falling hundreds of feet casually. Fighting h2h woth Iron Man etc...

Bane is shit. And Bucky is a scoop bag.

Originally posted by KingD19
Who did Bane fight? He went 50/50 against the worst Batman on the silver screen.

Bucky beat Cap twice definitely and fought him evenly several times. Had decent fights with Panther as well.

Showcased clear superhuman feats like outrunning cars and falling hundreds of feet casually. Fighting h2h woth Iron Man etc...

Bane is shit. And Bucky is a scoop bag.

Anyone can outrun cars moving below 20mph.
Batman is more skilled than WS. WS depends mostly on his physical stats to fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
Anyone can outrun cars moving below 20mph.
Batman is more skilled than WS. WS depends mostly on his physical stats to fight.

We agreed that we were using writer's intention, therefore Captain​ America and Winter Soldier are fast enough to out race cars driving at highway speeds.

Originally posted by h1a8
It would be very difficult for WS to land a punch to Bane's head.


hahahahahahahaha

again thanks for the laughs

Originally posted by Silent Master
We agreed that we were using writer's intention, therefore Captain​ America and Winter Soldier are fast enough to out race cars driving at highway speeds.

It is also very clearly the writer's intent that Winter Soldier is meant to be a highly skilled combatant. He was portrayed as Hydra's greatest assassin and shown to be able to hold his own against highly skilled opponents who have comparable stats to his, and steamroll through highly skilled opponents whose stats are below his.

How is this a fight, there is a serious argument that Bucky's human limbs might be stronger than Steve's and he pulled a f***in chopper out of the air...

WW2 Bucky pre-capture with just his M1 Garand is too much for Bane.

Cap stopped a chopper from taking off. Refresh my memory on Bucky feat please.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It is also very clearly the writer's intent that Winter Soldier is meant to be a highly skilled combatant. He was portrayed as Hydra's greatest assassin and shown to be able to hold his own against highly skilled opponents who have comparable stats to his, and steamroll through highly skilled opponents whose stats are below his.

Two unskilled combatants doesn't prove that one has skill.
WS is skilled when it comes to tactics and weapons. H2h fighting he isn't necessarily very skilled.

WS relies mostly on his enhanced nature (metal arm) with some h2h skill.

Bane on the other hand is a master. He is far more skilled than WS in h2h. He is smarter too. He wouldn't let WS hit him with the metal arm.
He smash until WS. A back breaker is a possibility.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
How is this a fight, there is a serious argument that Bucky's human limbs might be stronger than Steve's and he pulled a f***in chopper out of the air...

WW2 Bucky pre-capture with just his M1 Garand is too much for Bane. Pulling a helicopter isn't a great strength feat. 2nd there is no serious argument that WS human limbs is even equal to Steve's.

Finally, boards don't hit back. WS punches could easily be countered with stone smashing hits. A back breaker might follow, or a head snap.

Originally posted by h1a8
Two unskilled combatants doesn't prove that one has skill.
WS is skilled when it comes to tactics and weapons. H2h fighting he isn't necessarily very skilled.

WS relies mostly on his enhanced nature (metal arm) with some h2h skill.

Bane on the other hand is a master. He is far more skilled than WS in h2h. He is smarter too. He wouldn't let WS hit him with the metal arm.
He smash until WS. A back breaker is a possibility.

Again we are arguing writers intent and the writer intending him to be a master assassin that was so skilled that people weren't even sure he was real.

Skilled superhuman >>>>>>> skilled human.

WS wins 10/10

Originally posted by h1a8
Pulling a helicopter isn't a great strength feat. 2nd there is no serious argument that WS human limbs is even equal to Steve's.

Finally, boards don't hit back. WS punches could easily be countered with stone smashing hits. A back breaker might follow, or a head snap.


go back to bed please..

HAHAHAHA...

Originally posted by Sable
Cap stopped a chopper from taking off. Refresh my memory on Bucky feat please.

I don't think he has many lifting feats. He is mostly just shown able to fight evenly with people who do have the lifting feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
stone smashing hits.

You do realize that in the real world martial artist's that are not super powered smash concrete bricks with their hands, feet and heads right?

You also realize that movie Bane punched a pillar made out of drywall material and not made of concrete. Most importantly it wasn't a solid pillar, it was hollow.

All this of course can be backed up by on screen feats, not by assuming, or using your imagination.

It's odd, h1 said Originally posted by h1a8
Writer's intent is most important and supercedes all.

Yet, he refuses to actually use writer's intent for both sides.

Originally posted by Sable
Cap stopped a chopper from taking off. Refresh my memory on Bucky feat please. Bucky is constantly able to push Cap back, so his body has to absorb that force that one super human limb is giving out. He also seems to be fairly calm while fighting where as Cap seems like he is exerting more but is more skilled.

Originally posted by Silent Master

Skilled superhuman >>>>>>> skilled human.

WS wins 10/10

That's assuming skill is a wash.

But WS skill wasn't solely in h2h, it was in killing. He was an expert in weapons, tactics, espionage, and h2h. He wasn't a master at h2h though. Basically, he was a jack of all trades.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Bucky is constantly able to push Cap back, so his body has to absorb that force that one super human limb is giving out. He also seems to be fairly calm while fighting where as Cap seems like he is exerting more but is more skilled. Cap only weighs 230lb or so. Pushing him back a human can do. All the other stuff doesn't equate WS to having Steve's strength feats. He has his own.

It was clearly the writers intention that Winter Soldier be a highly skilled hand-to-hand fighter.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap only weighs 230lb or so. Pushing him back a human can do. All the other stuff doesn't equate WS to having Steve's strength feats. He has his own. Steve also generates force, he isn't a statue. You are just hurting your future credibility at this point.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap only weighs 230lb or so. Pushing him back a human can do. All the other stuff doesn't equate WS to having Steve's strength feats. He has his own.

Not true. SUPERMAN weights 225, and the guy at the bar tried to push him back and failed.

Originally posted by Sable
Not true. SUPERMAN weights 225, and the guy at the bar tried to push him back and failed. Superman can fly.

Originally posted by Inhuman
You do realize that in the real world martial artist's that are not super powered smash concrete bricks with their hands, feet and heads right?

You also realize that movie Bane punched a pillar made out of drywall material and not made of concrete. Most importantly it wasn't a solid pillar, it was hollow.

All this of course can be backed up by on screen feats, not by assuming, or using your imagination. No human can punch through a stone column like Bane did.

And it was intended to be solid stone. I have proven it several times. I gave the actual monument where they shot the scene. I showed the actual column right before Bane punched it (it was different right before Bane punched it). The movie makers changed the material in the scene where Bane punched it.

These two facts prove it was intended to be solid stone.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Steve also generates force, he isn't a statue. You are just hurting your future credibility at this point. Strength alone can't prevent a human from pushing you. You can have infinite strength and still get pushed back. This because strength doesn't effect the static friction force on one's feet. Weight and the coefficient of static friction does.

The fact remains that per writers intentions this is a fight between a highly-skilled human and a highly skilled superhuman. Therefore Winter Soldier as the highly-skilled Superhuman wins 10/10.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman can fly.

And?

Originally posted by h1a8
No human can punch through a stone column like Bane did.

And it was intended to be solid stone. I have proven it several times. I gave the actual monument where they shot the scene. I showed the actual column right before Bane punched it (it was different right before Bane punched it). The movie makers changed the material in the scene where Bane punched it.

These two facts prove it was intended to be solid stone.

You stated your opinion. I posted actual proof from the movie.

Screen feats>>>>>>>Opinions/assumptions

Originally posted by Silent Master
The fact remains that per writers intentions this is a fight between a highly-skilled human and a highly skilled superhuman. Therefore Winter Soldier as the highly-skilled Superhuman wins 10/10.

Is h1 doing his "hurdur Bucky isn't very skilled" shtick again? Even though his feats against other skilled superhumans, skilled regular humans, as well as various bits of dialogue and other information in CA:CW and CA:TWS clearly indicate that he is? Assuming the answer is yes, I am even more glad I still have him on Ignore.

Just the interrogation/escape scene from CA:CW alone makes the writer's intent clear. All the safety measures in place to keep a totally unarmed Winter Soldier secure (which makes it glaringly obvious that they consider him extremely dangerous, even unarmed), and the extreme response once he gets loose (as well as the lack of success of said response). The writer's intent is blatantly clear throughout both films that feature Bucky as the Winter Soldier, but it doesn't fit a certain extremely biased poster's narrative, so it gets ignored.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Is h1 doing his "hurdur Bucky isn't very skilled" shtick again? Even though his feats against other skilled superhumans, skilled regular humans, as well as various bits of dialogue and other information in CA:CW and CA:TWS clearly indicate that he is? Assuming the answer is yes, I am even more glad I still have him on Ignore.

Just the interrogation/escape scene from CA:CW alone makes the writer's intent clear. All the safety measures in place to keep a totally unarmed Winter Soldier secure (which makes it glaringly obvious that they consider him extremely dangerous, even unarmed), and the extreme response once he gets loose (as well as the lack of success of said response). The writer's intent is blatantly clear throughout both films that feature Bucky as the Winter Soldier, but it doesn't fit a certain extremely biased poster's narrative, so it gets ignored.

H1 went on the record as saying for this debate writers intention supersedes everything, however for some reason he is refusing to follow his own rules.

Originally posted by Silent Master
H1 went on the record as saying for this debate writers intention supersedes everything, however for some reason he is refusing to follow his own rules.

That's because when he says "writer's intent", what he actually means is his own intent/interpretation.

This fight goes like this, Winter Soldier hits Bane and Bane dies.

Originally posted by Inhuman
You stated your opinion. I posted actual proof from the movie.

Screen feats>>>>>>>Opinions/assumptions How can it be an opinion when I posted facts? The actual monument was REAL. The column changed in the scene when Bane hit it. Right before the switch, it was shown to be the real column. The movie makers didn't do a good job making the prop materials look exactly like the scene right before Bane struck it. As far as I'm concerned, you are trolling. I'm done with it.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
This fight goes like this, Winter Soldier hits Bane and Bane dies. Bane can take a hit. You act as if WS will hit more than 20x harder than Batman (which is needed to kill him).

Anyway WS will have a hard time even hitting Bane. Bane is simply more skilled. If Bane punches WS then plenty damage will be done.

Per writers intention. WS is more durable, stronger, faster and is more skilled. Thus WS wins 10/10.

Originally posted by h1a8
Bane can take a hit. You act as if WS will hit more than 20x harder than Batman (which is needed to kill him).

Anyway WS will have a hard time even hitting Bane. Bane is simply more skilled. If Bane punches WS then plenty damage will be done.


just give it up... Bucky stomps

Originally posted by Inhuman
You also realize that movie Bane punched a pillar made out of drywall material and not made of concrete. Most importantly it wasn't a solid pillar, it was hollow. That building was the Mellon Institute of Industrial Research, which has monolithic pillars made of limestone. Drywall pillars meant to support a building of that size?

The Mellon Institute of Industrial Research is in Pittsburgh, the column Bane punched​ was on a building in Gotham.

Originally posted by h1a8
Bane can take a hit. You act as if WS will hit more than 20x harder than Batman (which is needed to kill him).

Anyway WS will have a hard time even hitting Bane. Bane is simply more skilled. If Bane punches WS then plenty damage will be done.



I disagree he hits 20.5X harder ffs, where did you get 20X from?

Show me your working?

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac


I disagree he hits 20.5X harder ffs, where did you get 20X from?

Show me your working?

H1 has a tendency to arbitrarily pull numbers out of his ass (and they are always numbers that favour his arguments) and then claim them as fact.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
H1 has a tendency to arbitrarily pull numbers out of his ass (and they are always numbers that favour his arguments) and then claim them as fact.

Then, in your opinion, how many times harder do you think WS can punch than Batman? Give a range if you wish. With metal arm and with normal arm.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac


I disagree he hits 20.5X harder ffs, where did you get 20X from?

Show me your working?

WS can punch somewhere between 4-7x harder than Batman with the metal arm and about 1.2-2 times harder with the normal hand. This is common sense.

Originally posted by Inhuman
You stated your opinion. I posted actual proof from the movie.

Screen feats>>>>>>>Opinions/assumptions

I refuted your argument. It doesn't contradict my statements. You are now trolling and ignoring my statements. I'll repeat one more.

It was INTENDED to be solid stone. I have proven it several times.

1. I gave the actual monument site where they shot the scene and gave the makeup and weight of the actual columns.

2. I showed that the same column, right before Bane punched it, was indeed the REAL column from the site. The movie makers changed the material in the next cut scene where Bane punched it. The two columns are drastically different in appearance and texture. The scenes are a split second apart. It's like one scene you see a real human and in the next, an actual doll getting swung around. But we all know the doll is suppose to be the human.

Bane was intended to be a highly skilled human, whereas Winter Soldier was intended to be a highly skilled superhuman.

Thus, WS 10/10.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Bane was intended to be a highly skilled human, whereas Winter Soldier was intended to be a highly skilled superhuman.

Thus, WS 10/10.

WS is not highly skilled in h2h. He's an expert yes, but nowhere even close to master level. And WS is intended to be an enhanced human, not a superhuman.

Originally posted by h1a8
WS is not highly skilled in h2h. He's an expert yes, but nowhere even close to master level. And WS is intended to be an enhanced human, not a superhuman.

The writers clearly intended WS to be highly skilled + around Cap's level in physical stats and Cap was intended to be a superhuman.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The writers clearly intended WS to be highly skilled + around Cap's level in physical stats and Cap was intended to be a superhuman.

Cap is an enhanced human, not a superhuman. WS is lesser than Cap without the metal arm.

WS is not highly skilled in h2h. He's highly skilled at killing with weapons and killing in general. He's highly skilled in tactics, tracking, and espionage. In h2h, he's just experienced.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap is an enhanced human, not a superhuman. WS is lesser than Cap without the metal arm.

WS is not highly skilled in h2h. He's highly skilled at killing with weapons and killing in general. He's highly skilled in tactics, tracking, and espionage. In h2h, he's just experienced.

Now you're just arguing semantics in an effort to downplay how far above human Cap and WS were intended to be.

WS was intended to be highly skilled in hth, you're again just trying to downplay him in order to give your favorite character a better chance.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Mellon Institute of Industrial Research is in Pittsburgh, the column Bane punched​ was on a building in Gotham. You are aware that Gotham isn't a real place, right?

Originally posted by NemeBro
You are aware that Gotham isn't a real place, right?

And thus the material of the pillars of the Mellon Institute of Industrial Research have no bearing as to what materials those pillars were supposed to be made of in the movie.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And thus the material of the pillars of the Mellon Institute of Industrial Research have no bearing as to what materials those pillars were supposed to be made of in the movie.

Even if it was real.

Bane breaking a chunk of concrete<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Any of Bucky's feats.

It doesn't change a thing about how Bane loses.

Originally posted by KingD19
Even if it was real.

Bane breaking a chunk of concrete<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Any of Bucky's feats.

It doesn't change a thing about how Bane loses.

Actually it's greater than any of Bucky's feats.

Originally posted by KingD19
Even if it was real.

Bane breaking a chunk of concrete<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Any of Bucky's feats.

It doesn't change a thing about how Bane loses.

The Bane column-breaking feat is usually the most pointless thing to debate in these fights because it always comes into play when Bane is matched up against someone way way way way way above his paygrade.

Bucky by feats and feat comparisons could do worse to that pillar with his regular arm, and would Agent Smith subway fight/Super Shredder dock support beam break it with his roboarm

Originally posted by FrothByte
And thus the material of the pillars of the Mellon Institute of Industrial Research have no bearing as to what materials those pillars were supposed to be made of in the movie. Of course it does. It proves the intentions of the writer. You see the column change from real to fake the instant Bane punched it. It's like seeing a doll being swung, when right before it was a real human.

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course it does. It proves the intentions of the writer. You see the column change from real to fake the instant Bane punched it. It's like seeing a doll being swung, when right before it was a real human.

No it doesn't. You're not supposed to mix real world locations with in-movie locations, otherwise we know that majority of underwater and outer-space scenes are just CGI backgrounds. Are we to assume that Superman can't really fly in space because he only did so in front of a CGI screen?

Besides if you really want to include real world locations then we know Bane never really broke a pillar of the Mellon Institute. What he did was break a prop, probably some kind of plaster.

So instead we interpret it as the director wanted us to interpret it, in this case the pillar broke like it was drywall or at least that it was hollow, so we assume it's dry wall or at least hollow.

The writer picked the Institute because he liked the way it looked not because of what it was made of.

Feel free to prove me wrong by posting comments from the writer stating he picked that Institute because it was his intent to show that Bane can punch through solid concrete.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No it doesn't. You're not supposed to mix real world locations with in-movie locations, otherwise we know that majority of underwater and outer-space scenes are just CGI backgrounds. Are we to assume that Superman can't really fly in space because he only did so in front of a CGI screen?

Besides if you really want to include real world locations then we know Bane never really broke a pillar of the Mellon Institute. What he did was break a prop, probably some kind of plaster.

So instead we interpret it as the director wanted us to interpret it, in this case the pillar broke like it was drywall or at least that it was hollow, so we assume it's dry wall or at least hollow. You are making 0 sense. We are talking about writer's using REAL locations, not fake locations. This is to prove writer's intentions.

And good way to troll me. I stated that the column was real right before Bane hit it. They made a switch in the next cut scene. This like the "rag doll" example I gave.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And thus the material of the pillars of the Mellon Institute of Industrial Research have no bearing as to what materials those pillars were supposed to be made of in the movie. So you believe that because the prop they had Hardy punch wasn't made of stone (which is really only obviously visible in slow motion), the columns themselves, rather than being made out of stone like a column that size would actually be made out of, is made out of, of all things, hollow drywall, which seems to be what most of you claim?

Don't be retarded.

They were obviously made of stone considering all the solid bits of debris that fell out after Bane cratered it. Broken drywall doesn't look like that.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are making 0 sense. We are talking about writer's using REAL locations, not fake locations. This is to prove writer's intentions.

And good way to troll me. I stated that the column was real right before Bane hit it. They made a switch in the next cut scene. This like the "rag doll" example I gave.

Guess my analogy went right over your head. If you use REAL locations then we know Bane never broke a pillar in the Mellon Institute, he broke props.

If you want to use writer interpretation then we interpret the scene as to how it looked, because that's how you interpret writer intention. In this case the pillar looked hollow and made of dry wall, so that's how we interpret it. Had the writer/director really wanted us to interpret it as solid concrete then they would have made it look like solid concrete. But they didn't. End of story.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The writer picked the Institute because he liked the way it looked not because of what it was made of.

Feel free to prove me wrong by posting comments from the writer stating he picked that Institute because it was his intent to show that Bane can punch through solid concrete.

That has no bearing on anything.

You are still ignoring the fact that The column material was switched between the two scenes. It's like the "rag doll" example I gave.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Guess my analogy went right over your head. If you use REAL locations then we know Bane never broke a pillar in the Mellon Institute, he broke props.

If you want to use writer interpretation then we interpret the scene as to how it looked, because that's how you interpret writer intention. In this case the pillar looked hollow and made of dry wall, so that's how we interpret it. Had the writer/director really wanted us to interpret it as solid concrete then they would have made it look like solid concrete. But they didn't. End of story. So you actually believe that the pillar was meant to be drywall? You really are a moron.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Guess my analogy went right over your head. If you use REAL locations then we know Bane never broke a pillar in the Mellon Institute, he broke props.

If you want to use writer interpretation then we interpret the scene as to how it looked, because that's how you interpret writer intention. In this case the pillar looked hollow and made of dry wall, so that's how we interpret it. Had the writer/director really wanted us to interpret it as solid concrete then they would have made it look like solid concrete. But they didn't. End of story.

The prop was at the real location.

The column was real right before the scene Bane punched it. You clearly see the column change dramatically within a split second. This is the "rag doll " effect.
It's just a lack of special effects (like thousands of movies have).

Originally posted by h1a8
That has no bearing on anything.

You are still ignoring the fact that The column material was switched between the two scenes. It's like the "rag doll" example I gave.

So now you're claiming that a writer's intention has no bearing on writer's intentions.

Do you ever listen to yourself?

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you believe that because the prop they had Hardy punch wasn't made of stone (which is really only obviously visible in slow motion), the columns themselves, rather than being made out of stone like a column that size would actually be made out of, is made out of, of all things, hollow drywall, which seems to be what most of you claim?

Don't be retarded.

They were obviously made of stone considering all the solid bits of debris that fell out after Bane cratered it. Broken drywall doesn't look like that.

That's exactly what I'm claiming. You know why? because TDKR had enough of a budget that had they wanted that pillar to look like stone or concrete then they would have made it look and react like stone/concrete upon being punched. But it didn't look like concrete, didn't react like stone, so therefore we judge it on what it looked like: Which is some kind of plaster or drywall.

Originally posted by h1a8
The prop was at the real location.

The column was real right before the scene Bane punched it. You clearly see the column change dramatically within a split second. This is the "rag doll " effect.
It's just a lack of special effects (like thousands of movies have).

Writer's intention shows that they wanted to show that pillar as being hollow when Bane punched it. You don't like it then come up with some other proof.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Writer's intention shows that they wanted to show that pillar as being hollow when Bane punched it. You don't like it then come up with some other proof.

Look up, he just told me that the actual writer's intention has no bearing on determining writer's intention.

What he actually means is, he wants to use what he thinks a writer's intention is.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Writer's intention shows that they wanted to show that pillar as being hollow when Bane punched it. You don't like it then come up with some other proof. But it was real stone in the scene before. The movie makers probably didn't know how to show real stone being busted.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So now you're claiming that a writer's intention has no bearing on writer's intentions.

Do you ever listen to yourself?

The writer liking the way it looks has no bearing to him wanting it to be made of a different material. The fact that he used the real column in the scene before Bane struck it proves his intentions.

Originally posted by h1a8
The writer liking the way it looks has no bearing to him wanting it to be made of a different material. The fact that he used the real column in the scene before Bane struck it proves his intentions.

Post the quote from the writer that states his intention for that scene was that Bane could punch through solid stone.

Originally posted by h1a8
But it was real stone in the scene before. The movie makers probably didn't know how to show real stone being busted.

This is the resume of the guy who supervised TDKR SFX:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Corbould

Just to clarify....

Are you saying that guy plus a 250 Million dollar budget didn't know how to show SFX of something to break like real rock?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
This is the resume of the guy who supervised TDKR SFX:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Corbould

Just to clarify....

Are you saying that guy plus a 250 Million dollar budget didn't know how to show SFX of something to break like real rock?
Yes or they went a cheaper route on purpose. Otherwise, you can't explain away the column switch (from real to fake) in the scene right before Bane struck the column to the next cut scene where Bane struck the column. The two columns look drastically different. It's the "rag doll" effect. One scene is the human and in the next scene is a poorly displayed fake "rag doll".

Just to clarify: Most people didn't notice the change in the column in real time watching it for the first time. Only those, who are bias, here who are trying to discredit the feat.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes or they went a cheaper route on purpose. Otherwise, you can't explain away the column switch (from real to fake) in the scene right before Bane struck the column to the next cut scene where Bane struck the column. The two columns look drastically different. It's the "rag doll" effect. One scene is the human and in the next scene is a poorly displayed fake "rag doll".

Just to clarify: Most people didn't notice the change in the column in real time watching it for the first time. Only those, who are bias, here who are trying to discredit the feat.

If you want to make such claims you actually need to provide some proof. Proof that they decided to be cheap on purpose. Otherwise you're just throwing opinions in the air.

In case you didn't know, drywall and plaster can be made to look like rock or concrete. Heck, even wallpaper can be made to look like concrete. This is common sense. Just because it looks like stone doesn't mean it's actual stone.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If you want to make such claims you actually need to provide some proof. Proof that they decided to be cheap on purpose. Otherwise you're just throwing opinions in the air.

In case you didn't know, drywall and plaster can be made to look like rock or concrete. Heck, even wallpaper can be made to look like concrete. This is common sense. Just because it looks like stone doesn't mean it's actual stone. So you going to troll and ignore my post?
I proved it with the column switch. The column was real and then switched to a fake one. The two columns look drastically different. The "rag doll" effect.

Originally posted by h1a8
So you going to troll and ignore my post?
I proved it with the column switch. The column was real and then switched to a fake one. The two columns look drastically different. The "rag doll" effect.

Yeah they switched it to a fake column, obviously they didn't want to wreck the real column yah? But that doesn't change the fact that they made sure that the fake column looked and reacted like dry wall, not stone and not concrete. So writer's and director's intent still means they wanted us to see Bane wrecking plaster or dry wall, not stone and concrete. You can't get away from this fact.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah they switched it to a fake column, obviously they didn't want to wreck the real column yah? But that doesn't change the fact that they made sure that the fake column looked and reacted like dry wall, not stone and not concrete. So writer's and director's intent still means they wanted us to see Bane wrecking plaster or dry wall, not stone and concrete. You can't get away from this fact. But if they wanted the column to look and react like dry wall then they would have ALWAYS made them look that way. Why wait, when Bane strikes the column, to change it? If Bane would have never struck the column (it wasn't part of the story) then the column's would have always remained the same. The column specifically changed only when Bane struck it, not at any other time. This proves they changed it in order for Bane to appear to bust it up.

Originally posted by h1a8
The "rag doll" effect.

Its funny you are trying to us the "Rag-Doll effect" as an excuse to serve your argument.

After like the year 2000, the rag doll effect and similar very low budget movie techniques are only used now a days on the lowest of the low straight to DVD movies. IF that. You can even argue that you only see that in the lowest budget foreign films. Even TV special effects dont use effect of this low quality.

You are basically arguing that a big budget film like TDKR used specials effects found only on movies now a days made with pocket change in Cambodia.


If in the next Avengers movie Captain America lifts and throws a giant steel ball across the room and the ball behaves like its made out of rubber, would you think its a giant steel ball? Lets say the ball looks EXACTLY like steel, but bounces around like rubber.

Originally posted by h1a8
But if they wanted the column to look and react like dry wall then they would have ALWAYS made them look that way. Why wait, when Bane strikes the column, to change it? If Bane would have never struck the column (it wasn't part of the story) then the column's would have always remained the same. The column specifically changed only when Bane struck it, not at any other time. This proves they changed it in order for Bane to appear to bust it up.

Drywall does look like concrete you dumbass, at least from a distance. You'd need to get really close before you can tell it's drywall, sometimes not even then and you'd knock on it to make sure. Or just break it. Bottom line is that pillar's outer layer looked like it was plaster or drywall so that's what it is unless proven otherwise.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes or they went a cheaper route on purpose. Otherwise, you can't explain away the column switch (from real to fake) in the scene right before Bane struck the column to the next cut scene where Bane struck the column. The two columns look drastically different. It's the "rag doll" effect. One scene is the human and in the next scene is a poorly displayed fake "rag doll".

Just to clarify: Most people didn't notice the change in the column in real time watching it for the first time. Only those, who are bias, here who are trying to discredit the feat.

So award-winning SFX guy either didn't know how stone looks like when it breaks or went cheap and used antiquated/B-movie techniques during the climactic final battle between the hero and the main villain?

That's your argument?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
So award-winning SFX guy either didn't know how stone looks like when it breaks or went cheap and used antiquated/B-movie techniques during the climactic final battle between the hero and the main villain?

That's your argument?
Pretty much!!! My argument is validated by the switching of the columns (from real to fake). If you are right then how do explain that Chris didn't make both columns identical in appearance? Why did the column drastically change in appearance ONLY when Bane struck it (and not any other time)?

I just read an article. It appears that Chris said he had a tough challenge since Nolan told him to stay away from CGI as much as possible and focus on SFX with props.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Drywall does look like concrete you dumbass, at least from a distance. You'd need to get really close before you can tell it's drywall, sometimes not even then and you'd knock on it to make sure. Or just break it. Bottom line is that pillar's outer layer looked like it was plaster or drywall so that's what it is unless proven otherwise.

Drywall doesn't look anything like stone. Otherwise, why do we clearly see the "rag doll" effect? The column was stone before Bane struck it and then changed to prop material (different texture and color) for the scene where he struck it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Drywall doesn't look anything like stone. Otherwise, why do we clearly see the "rag doll" effect? The column was stone before Bane struck it and then changed to prop material (different texture and color) for the scene where he struck it.

Can you answer this and not dodge it like you do most posts that destroy your arguments?

Originally posted by Inhuman
If in the next Avengers movie Captain America lifts and throws a giant steel ball across the room and the ball behaves like its made out of rubber, would you think its a giant steel ball? Lets say the ball looks EXACTLY like steel, but bounces around like rubber.

Originally posted by h1a8
Drywall doesn't look anything like stone. Otherwise, why do we clearly see the "rag doll" effect? The column was stone before Bane struck it and then changed to prop material (different texture and color) for the scene where he struck it.

I think I understand now. You obviously have no idea what drywall is.

For example, this is drywall:

http://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/615x200/cpi-studiod-com/www_ehow_com/photos.demandstudios.com/getty/article/77/233/87588656_XS.jpg

Originally posted by FrothByte
I think I understand now. You obviously have no idea what drywall is.

For example, this is drywall:

http://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/615x200/cpi-studiod-com/www_ehow_com/photos.demandstudios.com/getty/article/77/233/87588656_XS.jpg

Drywall doesn't look like that.

And you are forgetting of the "rag doll" column switch. So even if drywall did look like stone then you can't explain away the vast difference in appearance when Bane struck the column vs. any other time.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Can you answer this and not dodge it like you do most posts that destroy your arguments? Yes, because it was meant to be a steel ball. But I'm not just arguing the behavior of the column, but the appearance was changed (right before Bane struck it).

Originally posted by h1a8
Drywall doesn't look like that.

And you are forgetting of the "rag doll" column switch. So even if drywall did look like stone then you can't explain away the vast difference in appearance when Bane struck the column vs. any other time.

That's actually drywall. What you don't seem to understand is that drywall can be made to look like different surfaces depending on how it's painted. It can be made to look like wood, concrete, marble, stone... so your whole ragdoll theory holds no water since the pillar looked exactly the same as it did.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Its funny you are trying to us the "Rag-Doll effect" as an excuse to serve your argument.

After like the year 2000, the rag doll effect and similar very low budget movie techniques are only used now a days on the lowest of the low straight to DVD movies. IF that. You can even argue that you only see that in the lowest budget foreign films. Even TV special effects dont use effect of this low quality.

You are basically arguing that a big budget film like TDKR used specials effects found only on movies now a days made with pocket change in Cambodia.


If in the next Avengers movie Captain America lifts and throws a giant steel ball across the room and the ball behaves like its made out of rubber, would you think its a giant steel ball? Lets say the ball looks EXACTLY like steel, but bounces around like rubber. The rag doll effect is in many top movies after 2000. Matrix sequels had them. Spider-man had them, etc.

Nolan specifically ordered Chris to stay away from CGI as much as possible and use natural effects.

Bane dies.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's actually drywall. What you don't seem to understand is that drywall can be made to look like different surfaces depending on how it's painted. It can be made to look like wood, concrete, marble, stone... so your whole ragdoll theory holds no water since the pillar looked exactly the same as it did.

Prove that it is drywall. You are just posting a picture of something that looks like concrete.

Again, you are ignoring the true argument. The column's appearance didn't remain the same. It appeared to be different in color and texture (as in other scenes) right before Bane struck it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes, because it was meant to be a steel ball. But I'm not just arguing the behavior of the column, but the appearance was changed (right before Bane struck it).

How would you know its meant to be a steel ball if there would be no indication or dialog insinuating this like the drywall pillar?

http://www.ehow.com/how_10072177_make-drywall-look-like-stone.html

Originally posted by Inhuman
How would you know its meant to be a steel ball if there would be no indication or dialog insinuating this like the drywall pillar?

I thought it was implied that it was meant to be a steel ball. You are saying that we have no other evidence or clue to what the ball is made out of besides its appearance?

In that case (which will never happen), then I'll think it's not a steel ball as long as the appearance doesn't change when it bounces. If the appearance changes the moment it is put into action, then that is strong evidence that it was meant to be a steel ball.

Originally posted by FrothByte
http://www.ehow.com/how_10072177_make-drywall-look-like-stone.html

Again, you are ignoring the true argument. The column's appearance didn't remain the same. It appeared to be different in color and texture (as in other scenes) right before Bane struck it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Again, you are ignoring the true argument. The column's appearance didn't remain the same. It appeared to be different in color and texture (as in other scenes) right before Bane struck it.

And like I said before, it you want to involve real world movie magic into it then we know Bane never really broke a stone pillar because it was a prop. So he broke a prop. Is that really the kind of argument you want to make?

Also noticed how you resort to deflection after I proved that drywall can look like stone.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And like I said before, it you want to involve real world movie magic into it then we know Bane never really broke a stone pillar because it was a prop. So he broke a prop. Is that really the kind of argument you want to make?

Also noticed how you resort to deflection after I proved that drywall can look like stone.

I have stated the argument about 10x times in every post. I refuse to let you ignore it. You act as if I'm just proposing the argument now. You never addressed it until now. Every post you made completely ignored it.

Again, you can't explain away why the column suddenly changed appearance when Bane turned to strike it. If they wanted the column to be made of drywall then all scenes would have had the columns appearing the same and never changing in appearance.

Originally posted by h1a8
Drywall doesn't look like that.

And you are forgetting of the "rag doll" column switch. So even if drywall did look like stone then you can't explain away the vast difference in appearance when Bane struck the column vs. any other time.

Still waiting for your quote from the writer, the one stating that his intention was for Bane to punch through solid stone.

Also I just read that the movie had 3 weeks to film there because of complaints of the citizens there. They didn't have enough time to make the column look exactly the same as before Bane struck it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Still waiting for your quote from the writer, the one stating that his intention was for Bane to punch through solid stone.

Why? It's not needed. Sufficient proof was given.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have stated the argument about 10x times in every post. I refuse to let you ignore it. You act as if I'm just proposing the argument now. You never addressed it until now. Every post you made completely ignored it.

Again, you can't explain away why the column suddenly changed appearance when Bane turned to strike it. If they wanted the column to be made of drywall then all scenes would have had the columns appearing the same and never changing in appearance.

Because the pillar didn't change appearance. It only "changed" when it got hit and was crumbling, but appearances do tend to change when something is crumbling.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why? It's not needed. Sufficient proof was given.

Your argument is that you're using the writer's intention, so yes. it is needed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's exactly what I'm claiming. You know why? because TDKR had enough of a budget that had they wanted that pillar to look like stone or concrete then they would have made it look and react like stone/concrete upon being punched.

No, assertions that "but they'd never accidentally let a bad special effect into a movie!" don't hold water when Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part 1 had the white marble tomb of Dumbledore be made out of ****ing styrofoam.

That film had a similarly high budget. Even professionals with lots of funding make mistakes.



No, we're not going to be retarded and assume that the giant column meant to support this massive building's weight was made of drywall, especially not when it didn't sound like drywall being broken at all. I've seen drywall be punched through with forklifts, and it doesn't sound quite so much like stone breaking, like what Bane did to the column.

For real though, why do all of you hate the Dark Knight series so much? What is it about Bane that gets all of your panties in a twist? Or Superman for that matter. I've never seen so many people autistically trying to discredit any feat they have. Inhuman's dumb self is still clinging to the idea that Bane is only "peak human" strength-wise, and I don't know why.

For Superman, it's that the new movies have sucked a$$

Originally posted by Silent Master
For Superman, it's that the new movies have sucked a$$ There isn't a single person on this site that hates Man of Steel or Batman vs. Superman more than me. Not one. Anyone who thinks Man of Steel was a good movie is a retarded phaggot.

But I'm also not an autistic ********** who is going to ignore and downplay the characters in the films in versus threads.

Ill post these again for those that missed them.

These showcase Bane and Balemans magnificent skill, speed, technique and strength. And the skill of expert trained thugs and soldiers that Baleman fights.



http://i.imgur.com/2hbiSYv.gif

http://i.imgur.com/LSNSWRT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/lIB45Ar.gif

http://i.imgur.com/PSpuv0f.gif

http://i.imgur.com/RZ48YVe.gif








Remember kids we go off screen feats not on assumptions, reputation or implied feats and skill.

You were asking why people hated the movies, I answered.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You were asking why people hated the movies, I answered. I didn't ask why people hated Man of Steel or BvS actually. In regards to Superman, I asked why he had your panties in a twist. You might want to work on your reading comprehension lad.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Ill post these again for those that missed them.

These showcase Bane and Balemans magnificent skill, speed, technique and strength. And the skill of expert trained thugs and soldiers that Baleman fights.

Remember kids we go off screen feats not on assumptions, reputation or implied feats and skill. go on

Originally posted by NemeBro
I didn't ask why people hated Man of Steel or BvS actually. In regards to Superman, I asked why he had your panties in a twist. You might want to work on your reading comprehension lad.

FUmrBNmhvJM

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, assertions that "but they'd never accidentally let a bad special effect into a movie!" don't hold water when Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part 1 had the white marble tomb of Dumbledore be made out of ****ing styrofoam.

That film had a similarly high budget. Even professionals with lots of funding make mistakes.

2) No, we're not going to be retarded and assume that the giant column meant to support this massive building's weight was made of drywall, especially not when it didn't sound like drywall being broken at all. I've seen drywall be punched through with forklifts, and it doesn't sound quite so much like stone breaking, like what Bane did to the column.

1) True. But one does not assume experienced professionals make obvious mistakes often. In an argument where neither side can present evidence to prove their assertion with absolute certainty, the more likely possibility becomes the better argument.

2) Why is it retarded? Decorative non-load bearing columns exist (and from how the columns were spaced in TDKR, those were most likely decorative as it would be a waste of money to space load bearing columns so close together using modern materials/construction techniques). There are even techniques where a cheaper, easier-to-shape material (like fiberglass and drywall) is layered over load bearing columns to give them a specific look and shape. Either are possibilities that cannot be dismissed without evidence invalidating either possibilities.

Just to clafiry: Not convinced either way on the stone-not-stone debate, tbh. Just enjoy throwing arguments in to fuel the debate. I am very bored atm.

Originally posted by Inhuman
http://i.imgur.com/2hbiSYv.gif I could be wrong but I think the VFX team screwed up this scene cause what I think was supposed to happen was the guy with the pistol tries to shoot Batman but he kicks the gun just as it fires which then takes out the guy in the foreground with the automatic weapon. Batman couldn't stop him and the pistol guy at once so he just made the other guy shoot him, the post production just didn't add a muzzle flash to indicate what happened.

The fight choreography is still awful but I mean, I think in this instance it was a production mistake cause of how obvious the flub was here, especially if it can be explained via reasoning

In any case, vfx flub or not, nothing about what we've seen with Bane indicates that he's strong enough to crush a solid stone pillar with a punch. If that was the case he should have broken quite a number of Batman's bones during their fight, kevlar or no.

The strength thing doesn't really matter much tbh.
Let's say Bane does have low super human strength like Ozy.
Bane would still be a tier below Cap & WS in strength. Add to the fact Bane is a slow brawler from what is seen in the film.
Doesn't matter how much strength we issue Bane, this is still a non fight with WS winning 10/10

I still like how h1 said that the writer's intention doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is h1's opinion on what the writer intended.

Originally posted by Inhuman
The strength thing doesn't really matter much tbh.
Let's say Bane does have low super human strength like Ozy.
Bane would still be a tier below Cap & WS in strength. Add to the fact Bane is a slow brawler from what is seen in the film.
Doesn't matter how much strength we issue Bane, this is still a non fight with WS winning 10/10

Agreed. Even if we gave Bane the same strength as WS, he's still much slower and has not displayed the skill to outfight WS.

I know it's been done before and h1 refuses to actually agree to logic.

But couldn't we just put up every feat they have and look at the difference in scale?

For instance breaking concrete <<<< tapping a car and sending it careening off the road.

h1's arguments are based on his opinion of writer's intent.

Or to put it another way. h1 is always right, regardless of what the movies show.

Oh yeah that's obvious. What's even more obvious is how he seems to think no one has realized his arguments have no basis on anything other than "I'm right, and you're not" and he seems to think we're idiots who simply sit here and take his words as gospel. Like Google isn't a thing that can shatter every lie he tells instantly with a search.

Originally posted by h1a8
No weapons or armor. Just plain street clothes.
Bane knows about WS metal arm and how powerful it is. He fights to the best of his ability.
Fight is to ko or incapacitation.

Who wins? Metal arm that bane knows about punches Bane in the mouth and he crumbles on the floor as if his nutsack is where his teeth should be

/Thread

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Metal arm that bane knows about punches Bane in the mouth and he crumbles on the floor as if his nutsack is where his teeth should be

/Thread

I say it would never very difficult for WS to even hit Bane with the metal arm. Even then, Bane can take at least a couple before going down. Bane on the other hand would do some serious damage to WS with his punches.

Originally posted by h1a8
I say it would never very difficult for WS to even hit Bane with the metal arm. Even then, Bane can take at least a couple before going down. Bane on the other hand would do some serious damage to WS with his punches.

So the guy far weaker than Cap and Black Panther will do some serious damage to Bucky? While Bane can take multiple hits from the metal arm that only Cap and above is seen tanking?

Originally posted by h1a8
I say it would never very difficult for WS to even hit Bane with the metal arm. Even then, Bane can take at least a couple before going down. Bane on the other hand would do some serious damage to WS with his punches.

In your massively biased opinion, by feats and by writer's intention WS wins 10/10.

Originally posted by Silent Master
In your massively biased opinion, by feats and by writer's intention WS wins 10/10. No writer has wrote Bane vs WS before.

Originally posted by h1a8
No writer has wrote Bane vs WS before.

Point




























h1's head.

Originally posted by KingD19
So the guy far weaker than Cap and Black Panther will do some serious damage to Bucky? While Bane can take multiple hits from the metal arm that only Cap and above is seen tanking? He's not far weaker, he was able to bust a stone column with a punch. This makes him at least a peer.

Originally posted by h1a8
He's not far weaker, he was able to bust a stone column with a punch. This makes him at least a peer.

He is far weaker, by both feats and writer's intention.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He is far weaker, by both feats and writer's intention. So you believe Nolan intends on Bane to be far weaker than Cap TFA?

Originally posted by Inhuman
The strength thing doesn't really matter much tbh.
Let's say Bane does have low super human strength like Ozy.
Bane would still be a tier below Cap & WS in strength. Add to the fact Bane is a slow brawler from what is seen in the film.
Doesn't matter how much strength we issue Bane, this is still a non fight with WS winning 10/10

h1, put up a video showing Bane's feats, or state them.

I'll do the same for Cap.

We can directly compare.

Originally posted by KingD19
h1, put up a video showing Bane's feats, or state them.

I'll do the same for Cap.

We can directly compare. Bane punches through a stone column. Bane is insanely smart.

Everytime I post the gifs from the Baleman movies H1 conveniently ignores them.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Everytime I post the gifs from the Baleman movies H1 conveniently ignores them. They are irrelevant.

Originally posted by h1a8
They are irrelevant.

So feats from the movie are irrelevant to discussions about the movie?

Originally posted by h1a8
They are irrelevant.


So what exactly do you base your arguments on, for the characters you are arguing for, if it's not "Movie feats" from the actual movies these characters appeared in?