Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I see that Miyagi's arrow catch and tree breaking feat gets wanked to the moon by Karate Kid fanboys, believing that no one except bullettimers can beat Miyagi. So let's see how he fares against someone who displays superhuman stats and arrow catching, dodging feats.

Rules: Pure H2H.

The fight takes place inside of a roman colosseum.

Who wins and why?

Good fight. Miyagi wins because he doesn't attack first.

Miyagi gets beaten so badly he can start auditioning for roles as Humpty Dumpty.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Miyagi gets beaten so badly he can start auditioning for roles as Humpty Dumpty. You don't understand my argument. Miyagi doesn't attack first. He let's his opponent attacks and counters them. Using this strategy, along with his physical attributes, Miyagi can't lose here.

agreed with h1a8. get out of snake and ezios asses dumbphuck47 and accept that miyagi would trash these morons

sunny cannot fight faster than a professional fighter. if hes really fast he should be moving far faster than a mma fighters

if sunny and widow cannot even move faster than dre or han them miyagi would effortlessly punk their asses before they could blink. dre was making superhuman wirefu flips that makes yoda look lame and slow as phuck

you doesnt even need to be a world class master to note that dre and professional fighters are faster than sunny.

sunny dodging and cathing arrows that takes half a sec to cross 50ft is not impressive. miyagi casually catched a arrow shoot from 30ft and arrows flies faster than 250mph since it took 0.15 sec to reach miyagi

miyagi knocks his torso off with a crane kick. a single tree breaking karate chop would bisect sunny in half

Miyagi gets beaten so badly he goes back in time, changes into a fetus and hides in his mother's womb for the next nine months.

Originally posted by h1a8
You don't understand my argument. Miyagi doesn't attack first. He let's his opponent attacks and counters them. Using this strategy, along with his physical attributes, Miyagi can't lose here.

8Qt3EZ19s_Y

I remember episode 1. Back when Sunny wasn't nearly as impressive. Which is saying something.

Miyagi wishes he was never born as he loses

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Miyagi wishes he was never born as he loses

He wishes he learned from whoever taught Sunny as he loses.

I'd like to see Miyagi use pure H2H to try and beat 5 of the Widow's armed Clippers directly after just being caught in a bomb blast, like Sunny did.

Originally posted by KingD19
He wishes he learned from whoever taught Sunny as he loses.

A scene where Miyagi interacts with Quinn would probably be pretty entertaining.

Quinn: "Now...Mr. Miyagi my Regent informs me your waxin' technique is second to none. So I humbly request you have a look over yonder and get to makin my vehicles sparkle in the sunlight. Chop chop...before I let my Colts have a go at Daniel-san."

Originally posted by h1a8
You don't understand my argument. Miyagi doesn't attack first. He let's his opponent attacks and counters them. Using this strategy, along with his physical attributes, Miyagi can't lose here.

i remember when IMP would see troll/spite threads (even threads that weren't intended to be spite) and close them immediately; now it seems that not only do these threads stay open, but you people are actually taking them seriously.

Originally posted by marwash22
i remember when IMP would see troll/spite threads (even threads that weren't intended to be spite) and close them immediately; now it seems that not only do these threads stay open, but you people are actually taking them seriously. If Sunny wins then should be able to rebut my argument.

Originally posted by h1a8
If Sunny wins then should be able to rebut my argument.

8Qt3EZ19s_Y

We bash your arguments to dust every single time. You're just a sore loser who never accepts defeat.

Originally posted by Silent Master
8Qt3EZ19s_Y Which doesn't rebut the "Miyagi will wait for Sunny to attack" argument.

Originally posted by h1a8
Which doesn't rebut the "Miyagi will wait for Sunny to attack" argument.

Prove that Miyagi can counter someone as fast and skilled as Sunny.

Originally posted by h1a8
Which doesn't rebut the "Miyagi will wait for Sunny to attack" argument.


So you're straight up ignoring how multiple times Sunny waits for people to attack him?

And that Sunny is faster than Miyagi, so trying to counter won't mean shit.

And Sunny is the cream of the crop in a world where people jump 10 feet standing still, knock each other through walls, and have dark magic super powers.

Originally posted by KingD19
So you're straight up ignoring how multiple times Sunny waits for people to attack him?

And that Sunny is faster than Miyagi, so trying to counter won't mean shit.

And Sunny is the cream of the crop in a world where people jump 10 feet standing still, knock each other through walls, and have dark magic super powers. Sunny will eventually attack first.


Sunny can't attack faster than Miyagi can perceive or move his hands. He caught an arrow with utter ease. Arrows move significantly faster than Sunny's attacks. Miyagi broke the tops of 3 empty beer bottles. This takes crazy speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Sunny can't attack faster than Miyagi can perceive or move his hands. He caught an arrow with utter ease. Arrows move significantly faster than Sunny's attacks. Miyagi broke the tops of 3 empty beer bottles. This takes crazy speed.

So you're basing Miyagi's speed on what is implied, but are basing Sunny's on visual?

Do you not see the massive double standard?

Originally posted by h1a8
Sunny will eventually attack first.


Sunny can't attack faster than Miyagi can perceive or move his hands. He caught an arrow with utter ease. Arrows move significantly faster than Sunny's attacks. Miyagi broke the tops of 3 empty beer bottles. This takes crazy speed.

Sunny has caught arrows on multiple occasions. While in combat, not just a training exercise. And they were crossbow bolts, so they go faster than regular arrows fired from a bow like the one used in Karate Kid.

Sunny has knocked people over 15 feet, launched them through walls, etc... He has actual speed feats so what's your argument now?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you're basing Miyagi's speed on what is implied, but are basing Sunny's on visual?

Do you not see the massive double standard? Im arguing assuming Sunny's implied speed. Is Sunny's implied speed faster than an arrow? Could Sunny achieve the same beer bottle feat with his implied speed?

Originally posted by h1a8
Im arguing assuming Sunny's implied speed. Is Sunny's implied speed faster than an arrow? Could Sunny achieve the same beer bottle feat with his implied speed?

Sunny has caught and dodged multiple arrows. So yes.

Also yes, he has far mroe feats of speed and skill and strength than Miyagi. So he could do the same with the beer bottles.

Originally posted by KingD19
Sunny has caught arrows on multiple occasions. While in combat, not just a training exercise. And they were crossbow bolts, so they go faster than regular arrows fired from a bow like the one used in Karate Kid.

Sunny has knocked people over 15 feet, launched them through walls, etc... He has actual speed feats so what's your argument now? I don't recall him catching an arrow but rather blocking them with a sword.

Prove that they go faster than the one Miyagi caught.

All you did is support his reflexes, and not actually prove that he can attack faster than an arrow.

Originally posted by KingD19
Sunny has caught and dodged multiple arrows. So yes.

Also yes, he has far mroe feats of speed and skill and strength than Miyagi. So he could do the same with the beer bottles. Blocked arrows. Even if caught then that doesn't prove he can attack faster than an arrow.

Originally posted by h1a8
Blocked arrows. Even if caught then that doesn't prove he can attack faster than an arrow.

You still haven't proven that Miyagi can counter someone as fast and skilled as Sunny.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't recall him catching an arrow but rather blocking them with a sword.

Prove that they go faster than the one Miyagi caught.

All you did is support his reflexes, and not actually prove that he can attack faster than an arrow.

You're right. He did block them with his sword. However, he blocked 5 crossbow bolts while running in a straight line, then dodged about 7-8 more. And since you're so smart, you'd realize blocking them was the smarter strategy as he'd still have his weapon and wouldn't have to drop every single arrow he caught.

Proof? Okay, crossbow bolts fire at a minimum of about 300fps. The Yomi bow that they used for the demonstration is huge and has a long draw which means it's arrows don't go that fast. And normal recurve arrows go about 225fps. So it's even lower than that.

Prove Miyagi can attack faster than Quinn, or Silver Moon, or a Dark One.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You still haven't proven that Miyagi can counter someone as fast and skilled as Sunny. Once Sunny is exposed from attacking then he can't defend the counter. He will be out of defensive position.

Originally posted by h1a8
Once Sunny is exposed from attacking then he can't defend the counter. He will be out of defensive position.


Have you ever watched Into the Badlands? Sunny has attacked while being countered, he's attacked from a different angle while attacking, etc...

Even if Miyagi throws off a counter, Sunny tanks it(as he took multiple hits from Dark Ones using their powers) and beats his old ass.

Originally posted by KingD19
Have you ever watched Into the Badlands? Sunny has attacked while being countered, he's attacked from a different angle while attacking, etc...

Even if Miyagi throws off a counter, Sunny tanks it(as he took multiple hits from Dark Ones using their powers) and beats his old ass. If Sunny attacked while being countered then it wasn't a real counter. A counter can only happen when someone arm or leg is extended significantly. Anything done after recovery isn't a counter. Miyagi has the hand speed to generate a lot of kinetic energy.

Originally posted by h1a8
If Sunny attacked while being countered then it wasn't a real counter. A counter can only happen when someone arm or leg is extended significantly. Anything done after recovery isn't a counter. Miyagi has the hand speed to generate a lot of kinetic energy.


Sunny's just that good. He's the best fighter in literally the entire Badlands, as he has easily beaten all the rest, with only Quinn and Silver Moon actually being a challenge, and those two aside from Waldo are the top Clippers aside from Sunny.

Can his hand speed launch Sunny 15 feet through a solid stone wall? He's had that happen a few times and all it does is piss him off.

Originally posted by KingD19
You're right. He did block them with his sword. However, he blocked 5 crossbow bolts while running in a straight line, then dodged about 7-8 more. And since you're so smart, you'd realize blocking them was the smarter strategy as he'd still have his weapon and wouldn't have to drop every single arrow he caught.

Proof? Okay, crossbow bolts fire at a minimum of about 300fps. The Yomi bow that they used for the demonstration is huge and has a long draw which means it's arrows don't go that fast. And normal recurve arrows go about 225fps. So it's even lower than that.

Prove Miyagi can attack faster than Quinn, or Silver Moon, or a Dark One.

You ignored my most important point. I never claimed Miyagi can attack faster than Sunny can defend. I said Sunny can't attack faster than Miyagi can defend. I said that Miyagi will only counter Sunny. He would never attack him straight up.
This gives Miyagi the automatic win. The moment Sunny attacks then Miyagi will counter. Sunny will be exposed and can't defend.

So explain how a completely normal old man like Miyagi can withstand blows from a superhuman such as Sunny? The strongest non-Dark One superhuman in a world of superhumans?

What's a counter going to do when you break your arm in the process and Sunny completely overpowers or ignores it?

Originally posted by h1a8
Once Sunny is exposed from attacking then he can't defend the counter. He will be out of defensive position.


You still haven't proven that Miyagi can counter someone as fast and skilled as Sunny.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You still haven't proven that Miyagi can counter someone as fast and skilled as Sunny. I did. I showed his reactions are far greater than Sunny's attack speed. I showed his incredible hand speed. This means he can counter the moment Sunny extends. Sunny can't recover his extended limb faster than Miyagi can attack.

Originally posted by KingD19
So explain how a completely normal old man like Miyagi can withstand blows from a superhuman such as Sunny? The strongest non-Dark One superhuman in a world of superhumans?

What's a counter going to do when you break your arm in the process and Sunny completely overpowers or ignores it? My argument is that Miyagi will not get hit because he will simply wait for Sunny to attack and then counter.

Originally posted by h1a8
I did. I showed his reactions are far greater than Sunny's attack speed. I showed his incredible hand speed. This means he can counter the moment Sunny extends. Sunny can't recover his extended limb faster than Miyagi can attack.

Which of these numbers are higher.

1) 300 or 225
2) 5 or 1

Originally posted by Silent Master
Which of the following numbers are higher than the others.

1) 300 or 225
2) 5 or 1
Answer
1, 300, and 225

Originally posted by h1a8
Answer
1, 300, and 225

Pay attention, it was two separate questions

First question 300 or 225

Second question 5 or 1

Originally posted by h1a8
My argument is that Miyagi will not get hit because he will simply wait for Sunny to attack and then counter.

So Miyagi counters infinitely against a guy who is massively younger, faster, more skilled, stronger, and is a stone-cold killer? How does he counter for instance a kick aimed at his chest that would shatter every bone in his body?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Pay attention, it was two separate questions

First question 300 or 225

Second question 5 or 1

No it wasn't. I kindly corrected your question.
Your question was ambiguous. "these", "higher", are example of ambiguous words you used.

Originally posted by KingD19
So Miyagi counters infinitely against a guy who is massively younger, faster, more skilled, stronger, and is a stone-cold killer? How does he counter for instance a kick aimed at his chest that would shatter every bone in his body?

No! Miyagi would counter Sunny after the first attack. In other words, Sunny would be countered before throwing another attack.

Sunny counter attacks Miyagi's counter attack. Miyagi loses.

Originally posted by h1a8
No! Miyagi would counter Sunny after the first attack. In other words, Sunny would be countered before throwing another attack.

So when you say Counter, you mean he'd counter his attack and finish the fight?

Or he would counter every attack infinitely?

Either way you need to prove it. Especially since Miyagi has never fought anyone with actual skill, much less one with skill and enhanced abilities.

It's funny how you're adamantly arguing for Miyagi who has never had an oncscreen fight, against Sunny who has at least 1 fight per episode for 2 seasons. He has personally killed at least 100 people on screen. Many of them with his bare hands.

Miyagi broke some bottles, caught an arrow. Whooo.

Originally posted by h1a8
No it wasn't. I kindly corrected your question.
Your question was ambiguous. "these", "higher", are example of ambiguous words you used.


Seeing as you're not very smart, I'll make it easy for you.

Which is higher

300 or 225?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Seeing as you're not very smart, I'll make it easy for you.

Which is higher

300 or 225?

They are both the same height if the device used to read this page is completely horizontal and reads the numbers from left to right.

Originally posted by KingD19
So when you say Counter, you mean he'd counter his attack and finish the fight?

Or he would counter every attack infinitely?

Either way you need to prove it. Especially since Miyagi has never fought anyone with actual skill, much less one with skill and enhanced abilities.

It's funny how you're adamantly arguing for Miyagi who has never had an oncscreen fight, against Sunny who has at least 1 fight per episode for 2 seasons. He has personally killed at least 100 people on screen. Many of them with his bare hands.

Miyagi broke some bottles, caught an arrow. Whooo.

He can counter the first attack with an attack that stuns or hurts Sunny. Then the process starts over again until Sunny is koed. So not infinitely, but finitely.

Catching an arrow, always waiting for the attack in order to counter attack, breaking those bottles, showing skill of countering is all that is needed. My argument is simple and strong.

The answer was 300. As he meant which is numerically higher. Not which is taller.

Gotta do better on the sarcasm man.

Originally posted by h1a8
They are both the same height if the device used to read this page is completely horizontal and reads the numbers from left to right.

If person A has 300 apples and person B has 225 apples, which person has more apples?

Originally posted by h1a8
He can counter the first attack with an attack that stuns or hurts Sunny. Then the process starts over again until Sunny is koed. So not infinitely, but finitely.

Catching an arrow, breaking those bottles, showing skill of countering is all that is needed. My argument is simple and strong.


Prove he can actually hurt Sunny. When multiple Dark Ones couldn't put him down immediately. Prove he's durable enough to not get broken when Sunny forces through whatever counter he can muster.

Sunny blocked more arrows than he caught, and dodged several(that were even faster as he was a lot closer than Miyagi, and he was running toward them reducing the distance they traveled). Sunny has broken multiple people.

Miyagi doesn't even have a single fight, but he'll beat the guy who has over 100 kills on screen and over 500 kills total.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If person A has 300 apples and person B has 225 apples, which person has more apples?

Which apple crate is highest when they're left to right and the device used to weight them is completely horizontal?

Originally posted by KingD19
Which apple crate is highest when they're left to right and the device used to weight them is completely horizontal?

By acting like he doesn't understand the question, all he's doing is giving everyone the impression that he really is retarded.

Originally posted by KingD19
Prove he can actually hurt Sunny. When multiple Dark Ones couldn't put him down immediately. Prove he's durable enough to not get broken when Sunny forces through whatever counter he can muster.

Sunny blocked more arrows than he caught, and dodged several(that were even faster as he was a lot closer than Miyagi, and he was running toward them reducing the distance they traveled). Sunny has broken multiple people.

Miyagi doesn't even have a single fight, but he'll beat the guy who has over 100 kills on screen and over 500 kills total.

I did. Miyagi has unreal handspeed (the bottle speed). Miyagi has great knowledge of pressure points. The hand speed Miyagi can generate can definitely hurt Sunny (especially since he is human and made out of flesh, veins, arteries, etc.)

Originally posted by h1a8
I did. Miyagi has unreal handspeed (the bottle speed). Miyagi has great knowledge of pressure points. The hand speed Miyagi can generate can definitely hurt Sunny (especially since he is human and made out of flesh, veins, arteries, etc.)

The Hulk is made out of flesh, veins, arteries, etc.) can Miyagi hurt the Hulk?

Originally posted by KingD19
The answer was 300. As he meant which is numerically higher. Not which is taller.

Gotta do better on the sarcasm man. You don't know what he meant. It could be a trick question. That's how you know that I'm a lot smarter than you guys lol.
If he meant "greater" then he should be smart enough to use that word instead of "higher".

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Hulk is made out of flesh, veins, arteries, etc.) can Miyagi hurt the Hulk? You missed the word, "human" before the words "flesh, etc." You are a genius dude.

Originally posted by h1a8
You don't know what he meant. It could be a trick question. That's how you know that I'm a lot smarter than you guys lol.
If he meant "greater" then he should be smart enough to use that word instead of "higher".

You being wrong proves you're a lot smarter?

Originally posted by h1a8
You don't know what he meant. It could be a trick question. That's how you know that I'm a lot smarter than you guys lol.
If he meant "greater" then he should be smart enough to use that word instead of "higher".

You missed the word, "human" before the words "flesh, etc." You are a genius dude.

The Hulk is human. now answer the question.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Hulk is human. now answer the question. Hulk isn't human. His dna is not the same as a homo sapiens. He ceased being human when becoming the Hulk. He is mortal though.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk isn't human. His dna is not the same as a homo sapiens. He ceased being human when becoming the Hulk. He is mortal though.

The Hulk is still human, deal with it.

Now answer my question.

Yeah the Hulk is still a human. He's just once extremely enhanced by Gamma radiation. He even looks exactly the same except green and huge. He can even talk, because he's human. And reason like a human. Get it?

And f*cking prove it. Prove Miyagi's skills(according to you and only you) can harm Sunny, who has tanked attacks from magic ninjas with enough strength to slaughter people like paper.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah the Hulk is still a human. He's just once extremely enhanced by Gamma radiation. He even looks exactly the same except green and huge. He can even talk, because he's human. And reason like a human. Get it?

And f*cking prove it. Prove Miyagi's skills(according to you and only you) can harm Sunny, who has tanked attacks from magic ninjas with enough strength to slaughter people like paper. So a human is someone who can talk and reason? If Mxy changed you into a talking and reasoning frog then are you human?
Is Gladiator from the Shiar empire a human? What about Thanos? Being human, in the context of my argument, implies genetic code and dna.

I did. It takes tremendous hand speed (greater than any human on Earth now) to do the bottle feat. Miyagi can use this hand speed to create a large kinetic energy (1/2mv^2) and apply it to a weak area.

The mere fact that a knife can cut Sunny as easily as real man also defeats your stance.

Originally posted by h1a8
So a human is someone who can talk and reason? If Mxy changed you into a talking and reasoning frog then are you human?
Is Gladiator from the Shiar empire a human? What about Thanos? Being human, in the context of my argument, implies genetic code and dna.

I did. It takes tremendous hand speed (greater than any human on Earth now) to do the bottle feat. Miyagi can use this hand speed to create a large kinetic energy (1/2mv^2) and apply it to a weak area.

The mere fact that a knife can cut Sunny as easily as real man also defeats your stance.

The Hulk is human, deal with it.

By the way, knives can hurt comic Wonder Woman are you claiming Miyagi would be able hurt her?

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Hulk is human, deal with it.

By the way, knives can hurt comic Wonder Woman are you claiming Miyagi would be able hurt her? I don't recall WW being hurt by knives as easy as humans, especially when fully powered.

You are an idiot if you think Hulk is a human. His DNA is not the DNA of a human being. His blood is green. Is Gladiator human?

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't recall WW being hurt by knives as easy as humans, especially when fully powered.

You are an idiot if you think Hulk is a human. His DNA is not the DNA of a human being. His blood is green. Is Gladiator human?

It's because they hide that information in the actual comic books, something you've never actually read.

The Hulk human, deal withe it.

Originally posted by KingD19
You're right. He did block them with his sword. However, he blocked 5 crossbow bolts while running in a straight line, then dodged about 7-8 more. And since you're so smart, you'd realize blocking them was the smarter strategy as he'd still have his weapon and wouldn't have to drop every single arrow he caught.

Proof? Okay, crossbow bolts fire at a minimum of about 300fps. The Yomi bow that they used for the demonstration is huge and has a long draw which means it's arrows don't go that fast. And normal recurve arrows go about 225fps. So it's even lower than that.

Prove Miyagi can attack faster than Quinn, or Silver Moon, or a Dark One.

Sunny has caught a crossbow bolt before. And what makes it even more impressive is he had his back turned when the bolt was actually released. Just after the 4 minute mark:

evXI2IrU2Cg

During the S1 warehouse fight, Sunny showed that he could literally fight off half a dozen guys attacking at the same time.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Sunny has caught a crossbow bolt before. And what makes it even more impressive is he had his back turned when the bolt was actually released. Just after the 4 minute mark:

evXI2IrU2Cg

During the S1 warehouse fight, Sunny showed that he could literally fight off half a dozen guys attacking at the same time.

Okay h1. Sunny has a feat of catching a faster arrow, fired from behind him, at a much closer range when he wasn't even looking.

You have no legs left to stand on for the Miyagi argument.

Originally posted by KingD19
Okay h1. Sunny has a feat of catching a faster arrow, fired from behind him, at a much closer range when he wasn't even looking.

You have no legs left to stand on for the Miyagi argument.

lol are you stupid? You don't actually read my arguments for complete understanding do you?

You are arguing from bias, therefore this discussion will lead nowhere.

I posted the following a long time ago.

Originally posted by h1a8
Even if caught then that doesn't prove he can attack faster than an arrow.

Originally posted by h1a8
lol are you stupid? You don't actually read my arguments for complete understanding do you?

You are arguing from bias, therefore this discussion will lead nowhere.

I posted the following a long time ago.

Are you dumb?

I'm convinced that H1 is trolling at this point. No one could be this dumb.

So catching an arrow proves that you can throw a punch as fast or faster than the arrow itself? Please say yes.

Originally posted by h1a8
So catching an arrow proves that you can throw a punch as fast or faster than the arrow itself? Please say yes.

Which is more impressive, catching an arrow that you had plenty of time to prepare for or catching a crossbow bolt that was fired at you from behind during combat?

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm convinced that H1 is trolling at this point. No one could be this dumb. I'm going to start reporting. Please stop with the flaming. Just rebut what you are declaring dumb. Clearly I don't troll. Trolling is INTENTIONAL.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Which is more impressive, catching an arrow that you had plenty of time to prepare for or catching a crossbow bolt that was fired at you from behind during combat? That's irrelevant. It doesn't destroy my argument at all. It's basically committing the "missing the point " fallacy.

My argument is that Miyagi can respond and defend against a Sunny attack. This because any attack made by Sunny would be significantly less fast than the arrow Miyagi caught.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm going to start reporting. Please stop with the flaming. Just rebut what you are declaring dumb. Clearly I don't troll. Trolling is INTENTIONAL.

Trolling is saying something completely ridiculous like "Miyagi wins because he won't throw the first punch".

Originally posted by h1a8
That's irrelevant. It doesn't destroy my argument at all. It's basically committing the "missing the point " fallacy.

My argument is that Miyagi can respond and defend against a Sunny attack. This because any attack made by Sunny would be significantly less fast than the arrow Miyagi caught.

You didn't answer my question, now are you actually going to address my point?

Originally posted by Silent Master
You didn't answer my question, now are you actually going to address my point? But my argument is still on the table. You either must rebut it or concede.

Originally posted by h1a8
But my argument is still on the table. You either must rebut it or concede.

So you refuse to answer my question?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you refuse to answer my question?

So you refuse to address my argument?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Which is more impressive, catching an arrow that you had plenty of time to prepare for or catching a crossbow bolt that was fired at you from behind during combat? Miyagi didn't prepare. He never practiced catching an arrow right before he did the feat. He got dressed and went to the position with his hands down and casually caught the arrow.

The arrow from the crossbow was huge in mass (solid metal) and volume (very thick). It also had no tail. Thus this arrow fired a lot slower than Miyagi's arrow. Also Sunny saw the crossbow shoot the arrow. It wasn't as if it was in midair before he turned around.

All of this along with the ease in which Miyagi did it shows that he could easily achieve Sunny's feat if he also turned and saw the arrow fire off. So Miyagi's catch was more impressive.

Originally posted by h1a8
Miyagi didn't prepare. He never practiced catching an arrow right before he did the feat. He got dressed and went to the position with his hands down and casually caught the arrow.

The arrow from the crossbow was huge in mass (solid metal) and volume (very thick). It also had no tail. Thus this arrow fired a lot slower than Miyagi's arrow. Also Sunny saw the crossbow shoot the arrow. It wasn't as if it was in midair before he turned around.

All of this along with the ease in which Miyagi did it shows that he could easily achieve Sunny's feat if he also turned and saw the arrow fire off. So Miyagi's catch was more impressive.

I see, you either don't know what prepare means, you've never seen the movie or you're lying. Which is it?

Also, you honestly expect us to believe that you think 225fps is faster than 300fps? and that reacting to the faster object in less time is more impressive than reacting to a slower object in greater time?

Either you're not very smart of you're trolling. Which is it?

Originally posted by Silent Master
I see, you either don't know what prepare means, you've never seen the movie or you're lying. Which is it?

Also, you honestly expect us to believe that you think 225fps is faster than 300fps? and that reacting to the faster object in less time is more impressive than reacting to a slower object in greater time?

Either you're not very smart of you're trolling. Which is it?

Every time I catch a part of an H1 post when someone quotes him, I have to facepalm. Either his eyes don't work properly, or he is blatantly lying, considering:

http://i.imgur.com/ObTm2yL.jpg

The bolt was in fact already mid-flight by the time Sunny had only started to turn. And this is plainly visible even without freezing the shot.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Every time I catch a part of an H1 post when someone quotes him, I have to facepalm. Either his eyes don't work properly, or he is blatantly lying, considering:

http://i.imgur.com/ObTm2yL.jpg

Yep, h1 blatantly lied about what the scene showed in order to to claim what Miyagi did was more impressive.

What would you call knowingly lying about a scene in order to score a point in a debate?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What would you call knowingly lying about a scene in order to score a point in a debate?

Trolling. Which is why I put him on Ignore and generally try not to waste any time on him.

Here is another shot, from a frame or two earlier, where the arrow is again already in flight, and Sunny is clearly turned away from him, as we only see the back of his head.

http://i.imgur.com/vik7xza.jpg

Now just wait for H1 to come up with some nonsense excuse for his obvious dishonesty.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Trolling. Which is why I put him on Ignore and generally try not to waste any time on him.

Same here, which is why I laughed when he said that he never trolls. I then pointed out that the forum rules state that only what is shown on screen matters and thus every time he uses his "writer's intention" trumps all(including what the movies show) argument, he is actually trolling, as he's knowingly breaking the rules.

He didn't like that and ran away after I provided 6 examples.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Same here, which is why I laughed when he said that he never trolls. I then pointed out that the forum rules state that only what is shown on screen matters and thus every time he uses his "writer's intention" trumps all(including what the movies show) argument, he is actually trolling, as he's knowingly breaking the rules.

He didn't like that and ran away after I provided 6 examples.

Also, with regard to the bolt itself. It didn't look any thicker than a normal crossbow bolt. Also, even if it was 100% metal, it might have been a lightweight composition. And we know that crossbow bolts travel much faster than arrows from a yomi bow. So, even if the weight of the the bolt and the lack of tail did slow it down, that still does not mean that it's actually slower than the arrow in question. Those factors could have decreased its speed by 60 fps and it would still have been faster. So, if he wants to claim that those factors actually made it significantly slower than the arrow Miyagi caught, the burden of proof is on him to show that as being the case. Which, straight off the bat, requires him to accurately identify exactly what kind of metallic composition the bolt was made out of. And I would not take a single claim of his at face value, regarding the bolt specs, as he has already shown a willingness to misrepresent the feat in order to downplay it.

It's also funny how he says "Miyagi didn't practice". Because this ancient Karate sensei just decided for the first time in his life one day to try and catch an arrow to prove something to his latest disciple.

Yet downplays Sunny catching an arrow fired at his back in the middle of a hectic combat situation, not a demonstration.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I see, you either don't know what prepare means, you've never seen the movie or you're lying. Which is it?

Also, you honestly expect us to believe that you think 225fps is faster than 300fps? and that reacting to the faster object in less time is more impressive than reacting to a slower object in greater time?

Either you're not very smart of you're trolling. Which is it?

The crossbow bolt in the show that sunny caught was slower than a standard bolt. It was completely metal and much thicker.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Trolling. Which is why I put him on Ignore and generally try not to waste any time on him.

Here is another shot, from a frame or two earlier, where the arrow is again already in flight, and Sunny is clearly turned away from him, as we only see the back of his head.

http://i.imgur.com/vik7xza.jpg

Now just wait for H1 to come up with some nonsense excuse for his obvious dishonesty. In the next scene Sunny is facing the shooter as he begins to shoot. This contradicts the first scene. The latter scene makes the former irrelevant since that's the scene where he caught the arrow.
Originally posted by KingD19
It's also funny how he says "Miyagi didn't practice". Because this ancient Karate sensei just decided for the first time in his life one day to try and catch an arrow to prove something to his latest disciple.

Yet downplays Sunny catching an arrow fired at his back in the middle of a hectic combat situation, not a demonstration.
You didn't comprehend.
Originally posted by h1a8
He never practiced catching an arrow right before he did the feat.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, with regard to the bolt itself. It didn't look any thicker than a normal crossbow bolt. Also, even if it was 100% metal, it might have been a lightweight composition. And we know that crossbow bolts travel much faster than arrows from a yomi bow. So, even if the weight of the the bolt and the lack of tail did slow it down, that still does not mean that it's actually slower than the arrow in question. Those factors could have decreased its speed by 60 fps and it would still have been faster. So, if he wants to claim that those factors actually made it significantly slower than the arrow Miyagi caught, the burden of proof is on him to show that as being the case. Which, straight off the bat, requires him to accurately identify exactly what kind of metallic composition the bolt was made out of. And I would not take a single claim of his at face value, regarding the bolt specs, as he has already shown a willingness to misrepresent the feat in order to downplay it. The mass was more than double a standard bolt is. This halfens the acceleration. The volume is more than double. This doubles the wind resistance.

Originally posted by h1a8

The arrow from the crossbow was huge in mass (solid metal) and volume (very thick). It also had no tail. Thus this arrow fired a lot slower than Miyagi's arrow. Also Sunny saw the crossbow shoot the arrow. It wasn't as if it was in midair before he turned around.


There haven't been solid metal crossbow bolts for a long time. Modern crossbows will shoot "bolts" that are actually just short arrows that will be made of either aluminum or carbon. And these are hollow.

Crossbow arrows will be a lot shorter than Yumi arrows. Yumi arrows are some of the longest archery arrows. Longer arrows = heavier arrows. Heavier arrows = slower arrows. So a crossbow arrow being heavier than a yumi arrow is complete BS. Also, crossbow arrows have a "tail", just not as pronounced as Yumi arrows.

Yumi's seldom can shoot at 225 fps. You're looking at around 170 - 180 fps on average, whereas 300 fps is considered slow for crossbows. 350+ fps is a better average.

In short, crossbows will shoot about twice the speed of a yumi... on average.

Originally posted by h1a8
In the next scene Sunny is facing the shooter as he begins to shoot. This contradicts the first scene. The latter scene makes the former irrelevant since that's the scene where he caught the arrow.

You didn't comprehend.

So by this logic, Bane only punched a fake pillar as it was clearly a prop when he punched it. Therefore it contradicted the prior scene when it was completely concrete, making the former irrelevant since that's the scene when he punched the fake pillar.

Originally posted by FrothByte
There haven't been solid metal crossbow bolts for a long time. Modern crossbows will shoot "bolts" that are actually just short arrows that will be made of either aluminum or carbon. And these are hollow.

Crossbow arrows will be a lot shorter than Yumi arrows. Yumi arrows are some of the longest archery arrows. Longer arrows = heavier arrows. Heavier arrows = slower arrows. So a crossbow arrow being heavier than a yumi arrow is complete BS. Also, crossbow arrows have a "tail", just not as pronounced as Yumi arrows.

Yumi's seldom can shoot at 225 fps. You're looking at around 170 - 180 fps on average, whereas 300 fps is considered slow for crossbows. 350+ fps is a better average.

In short, crossbows will shoot about twice the speed of a yumi... on average. No one claimed that a standard bolt is heavier than a yumi arrow. I claimed that the bolt Sunny caught was significantly heavier and larger than a standard bolt. So if a standard bolt goes 300fps then THAT bolt went significantly less.

Originally posted by KingD19
So by this logic, Bane only punched a fake pillar as it was clearly a prop when he punched it. Therefore it contradicted the prior scene when it was completely concrete, making the former irrelevant since that's the scene when he punched the fake pillar. This is faulty. We are not referring to material makeup but the order of events. If A happens before B in one scene but B happens before A in another then we have a contradiction.

And this thread isn't about Bane.

Originally posted by h1a8
No one claimed that a standard bolt is heavier than a yumi arrow. I claimed that the bolt Sunny caught was significantly heavier and larger than a standard bolt. So if a standard bolt goes 300fps then THAT bolt went significantly less.

And what proof have you that it was heavier? A thicker arrow does not necessarily mean it is heavier. A thick carbon arrow will still be lighter than a slim aluminum arrow.

Originally posted by KingD19
So by this logic, Bane only punched a fake pillar as it was clearly a prop when he punched it. Therefore it contradicted the prior scene when it was completely concrete, making the former irrelevant since that's the scene when he punched the fake pillar.

We don't see the Clipper fire again from the 2nd camera angle. Sunny blocks line of sight. All we hear is the whistle from the bolt and see the Clipper maintaining his firing posture. So, there is no visible cue in the second shot that actually contradicts the first. The ITB crew are very precise with their cinematography. If they shot him with his back turned as the bolt fired, and cut it into the scene, then they did it for a reason.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And what proof have you that it was heavier? A thicker arrow does not necessarily mean it is heavier. A thick carbon arrow will still be lighter than a slim aluminum arrow.

He is claiming it because it suits his nonsense argument. He also claimed the bolt didn't have a tail. But you can actually see the tail while Sunny is holding it.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
We don't see the Clipper fire again from the 2nd camera angle. Sunny blocks line of sight. All we hear is the whistle from the bolt and see the Clipper maintaining his firing posture. So, there is no visible cue in the second shot that actually contradicts the first. The ITB crew are very precise with their cinematography. If they shot him with his back turned as the bolt fired, and cut it into the scene, then they did it for a reason.

Oh you're absolutely right. But notice how when I applied that exacct same logic to Bane, he said it wasn't the same thing. He loves to twist any argument just enough so that he always seems right and you don't, hahaha it's so bad.

Originally posted by KingD19
Oh you're absolutely right. But notice how when I applied that exacct same logic to Bane, he said it wasn't the same thing. He loves to twist any argument just enough so that he always seems right and you don't, hahaha it's so bad.

That's the big joke. He constantly goes on about "writer's intent". But if it wasn't the writer's intent to show the bolt firing at Sunny from behind and him spinning around to catch it, they would never have included it. They would have cut to the second shot right after showing the Clipper taking aim. It would have taken less time, effort, and money (for the flying bolt vfx, because they obviously didn't shoot an actual crossbow bolt at Daniel Wu's back) to do.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
We don't see the Clipper fire again from the 2nd camera angle. Sunny blocks line of sight. All we hear is the whistle from the bolt and see the Clipper maintaining his firing posture. So, there is no visible cue in the second shot that actually contradicts the first. The ITB crew are very precise with their cinematography. If they shot him with his back turned as the bolt fired, and cut it into the scene, then they did it for a reason.

So someone who claimed Bane is slow (going by visual speed) is suggesting that the arrow wasn't shot in the second scene because Sunny was facing the shooter for about a second before raising his hand to catch it. So either that is one slow ass arrow or you are using double standards when it comes to on screen visual speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
The crossbow bolt in the show that sunny caught was slower than a standard bolt. It was completely metal and much thicker.

Post your proof.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
That's the big joke. He constantly goes on about "writer's intent". But if it wasn't the writer's intent to show the bolt firing at Sunny from behind and him spinning around to catch it, they would never have included it. They would have cut to the second shot right after showing the Clipper taking aim. It would have taken less time, effort, and money (for the flying bolt vfx, because they obviously didn't shoot an actual crossbow bolt at Daniel Wu's back) to do.

I thought it was evident that the 2nd scene had the shooter shoot the arrow afterwards since Sunny was faced to him for a second.
It could be very well writer's intentions that Sunny turned around and caught it.
I can concede the point.
But this is irrelevant to my argument.

Sunny can't attack faster than an arrow. Miyagi has great hand speed and reflexes. Miyagi always wait to be attacked.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Post your proof. The proof was the last sentence.

^ There was no proof. I just posted a bunch of facts proving that crossbows shoot a lot faster than yumis. You have yet to provide any decent argument against it. There is no way a Yumi could ever compete against a crossbow in pure speed and power.

Originally posted by h1a8
I thought it was evident that the 2nd scene had the shooter shoot the arrow afterwards since Sunny was faced to him for a second.
It could be very well writer's intentions that Sunny turned around and caught it.
I can concede the point.
But this is irrelevant to my argument.

Sunny can't attack faster than an arrow. Miyagi has great hand speed and reflexes. Miyagi always wait to be attacked.

So the fact that Sunny actually has the better on screen feat is irrelevant to your argument. you do realize that you just admitted that you're not basing your argument on what the movie shows and are thus knowingly breaking forum rules.

Originally posted by h1a8
The proof was the last sentence.

Your opinion isn't proof and continuing to try and pass it off as such is just another lie.

BTW, knowingly lying to help your argument is known as trolling.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So the fact that Sunny actually has the better on screen feat is irrelevant to your argument. you do realize that you just admitted that you're not basing your argument on what the movie shows and are thus knowingly breaking forum rules.



Your opinion isn't proof and continuing to try and pass it off as such is just another lie.

BTW, knowingly lying to help your argument is known as trolling.

Yes, it's irrelevant. It doesn't prove that Sunny can hit Miyagi. It doesn't prove that Miyagi can't defend and counter a Sunny attack.

How can facts be opinions? The bolt was of metal construction and larger than a standard bolt. Where is the opinion?

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes, it's irrelevant. It doesn't prove that Sunny can hit Miyagi. It doesn't prove that Miyagi can't defend and counter a Sunny attack.

How can facts be opinions. The bolt was of metal construction and larger than a standard bolt. Where is the opinion?

We don't have to prove that Miyagi can't defend or counter, you actually have to prove that he can. thus Sunny having the better reaction feat is completely relevant to the discussion, same with the fact that Sunny has the better skill feats.

Your entire post was opinion, at no time did you actually post any facts about the specific bolt used it that scene.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So the fact that Sunny actually has the better on screen feat is irrelevant to your argument. you do realize that you just admitted that you're not basing your argument on what the movie shows and are thus knowingly breaking forum rules.


He's also exaggerating the time Sunny faced the guy. Between the 4:02 and 4:03 mark in the video, the guy fires. Between the 4:03 and 4:04 mark, Sunny catches it. So, the entire sequence barely took a second.

So h1, why aren't you replying to my posted facts?

Originally posted by FrothByte
So h1, why aren't you replying to my posted facts?

And, if I am not mistaken, you actually have some RL experience with archery. Or am I thinking of someone else?

Plain and simple. Both have arrow catch feats, yes?

Sunny's is better by a large margin. It took place in combat, he got shot at from behind at a closer distance by a faster projectile.

Miyagi did a demonstration from a huge distance and had time to prepare.

And of the two, only Sunny has actual combat feats. h1 is acting like actually seeing someone perform doesn't matter if he says they're good.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So h1, why aren't you replying to my posted facts?

h1 doesn't deal with actual facts, he just deals with h1-facts. otherwise known as his opinions.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And, if I am not mistaken, you actually have some RL experience with archery. Or am I thinking of someone else?

No you're right, I've been a professional archer for 5 yrs now. I specialize in horsebows though I also shoot longbows and recurves. Did a 6 month intro course in Kyudo.

Not really into compounds and crossbows but I've shot with other archers who let me try their stuff. There is no bow on the planet that you can pull with your fingers that can compete against the power of a crossbow. Especially not a Yumi.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We don't have to prove that Miyagi can't defend or counter, you actually have to prove that he can. thus Sunny having the better reaction feat is completely relevant to the discussion, same with the fact that Sunny has the better skill feats.

Your entire post was opinion, at no time did you actually post any facts about the specific bolt used it that scene.

I proved it.

Catching an arrow doesn't mean you can punch with the same speed. It takes a fraction of the speed of something to catch it. Thus Sunny cannot punch faster than an arrow and Miyagi can react to his attacks since he reacted to something faster.

Miyagi has great hand speed. He broke the tops of 3 empty beer bottles.
Miyagi can use this hand speed and skill to counter Sunny.

Originally posted by h1a8
I proved it.

Catching an arrow doesn't mean you can punch with the same speed. It takes a fraction of the speed of something to catch it. Thus Sunny cannot punch faster than an arrow and Miyagi can react to his attacks since he reacted to something faster.

Miyagi has great hand speed. He broke the tops of 3 empty beer bottles.
Miyagi can use this hand speed and skill to counter Sunny.

Your opinion isn't proof. by screen feats Sunny is both faster and more skilled than Miyagi. thus the chance of Miyagi successfully countering Sunny is very small. whereas the chance of Sunny countering Miyagi is very high.

Originally posted by h1a8
I proved it.

Catching an arrow doesn't mean you can punch with the same speed. It takes a fraction of the speed of something to catch it. Thus Sunny cannot punch faster than an arrow and Miyagi can react to his attacks since he reacted to something faster.

Miyagi has great hand speed. He broke the tops of 3 empty beer bottles.
Miyagi can use this hand speed and skill to counter Sunny.

Again, your opinion isn't proof. by screen feats Sunny is both faster and more skilled than Miyagi. thus the chance of Miyagi successfully countering Sunny is very small. whereas the chance of Sunny countering Miyagi is very high.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, your opinion isn't proof. by screen feats Sunny is both faster and more skilled than Miyagi. thus the chance of Miyagi successfully countering Sunny is very small. whereas the chance of Sunny countering Miyagi is very high. An arrow is faster than Miyagi. Doesn't mean the arrow can hit Miyagi.
The argument is simple. Sunny attacks, Miyagi defends (it takes less speed to defend than the attack) and counters.

Originally posted by h1a8
An arrow is faster than Miyagi. Doesn't mean the arrow can hit Miyagi.
The argument is simple. Sunny attacks, Miyagi defends (it takes less speed to defend than the attack) and counters.

Are you aware that arrows can't fight back, have more than one appendage or attack multiple times?

Are you aware that Sunny being both more skilled and faster makes the chances of Miyagi successfully defending and countering rather small?

Originally posted by FrothByte
No you're right, I've been a professional archer for 5 yrs now. I specialize in horsebows though I also shoot longbows and recurves. Did a 6 month intro course in Kyudo.

Not really into compounds and crossbows but I've shot with other archers who let me try their stuff. There is no bow on the planet that you can pull with your fingers that can compete against the power of a crossbow. Especially not a Yumi.

An arrow doesn't change it's trajectory. A SINGLE arrow does not launch a combination of attacks on you. An arrow is not capable to blocking an attack and counter attacking. An arrow is not capable of feinting or of continuing to push once it's momentum is stopped.

There are real people out there who can catch arrows, that does not mean that they are unhittable with punches.

Guys, let's also take this into account. People who can launch Sunny over 10 feet and through solid stone walls don't have enough strength to put Sunny down.

What is Miyagi gonna do even if he does get off a counter? Sunny punches, Miyagi counters...his blow has no effect and Sunny is already kicking him across the room.

Originally posted by FrothByte
An arrow doesn't change it's trajectory. A SINGLE arrow does not launch a combination of attacks on you. An arrow is not capable to blocking an attack and counter attacking. An arrow is not capable of feinting or of continuing to push once it's momentum is stopped.

There are real people out there who can catch arrows, that does not mean that they are unhittable with punches.

It's hilarious that h1 is saying that Miyagi will be able to defend and counter, despite being both slower and less skilled. yet Sunny apparently won't be able to defend or counter even though he is faster and more skilled.

Originally posted by KingD19
Guys, let's also take this into account. People who can launch Sunny over 10 feet and through solid stone walls don't have enough strength to put Sunny down.

What is Miyagi gonna do even if he does get off a counter? Sunny punches, Miyagi counters...his blow has no effect and Sunny is already kicking him across the room. Miyagi has shown superhuman hand speed and knows pressure points.

Originally posted by FrothByte
An arrow doesn't change it's trajectory. A SINGLE arrow does not launch a combination of attacks on you. An arrow is not capable to blocking an attack and counter attacking. An arrow is not capable of feinting or of continuing to push once it's momentum is stopped.

There are real people out there who can catch arrows, that does not mean that they are unhittable with punches.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Are you aware that arrows can't fight back, have more than one appendage or attack multiple times?

Are you aware that Sunny being both more skilled and faster makes the chances of Miyagi successfully defending and countering rather small? Sunny can only throw one attack at a time. The first attack will be countered.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's hilarious that h1 is saying that Miyagi will be able to defend and counter, despite being both slower and less skilled. yet Sunny apparently won't be able to defend or counter even though he is faster and more skilled.

You are fallaciously assuming that a slower person can't defend against a faster person. It takes only a fraction of the speed of an attack to defend against it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Miyagi has shown superhuman fighting speed and knows pressure points.

Post clips where he uses superhuman speed in combat.




Prove it.



As Sunny is both faster and more skilled, why are you assuming Miyagi will be successful in his counters?

Sunny has attacked multiple people at once, as well as a single person from multiple angles and with more than one limb. And he does this fairly often.

Originally posted by KingD19
Sunny has attacked multiple people at once, as well as a single person from multiple angles and with more than one limb. And he does this fairly often. He will still throw one attack at a time. The first attack will be countered.

Originally posted by h1a8
He will still throw one attack at a time. The first attack will be countered.

So you believe that the faster and more skilled Sunny won't be able to counter or dodge Miyagi's attacks or counters?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you believe that the faster and more skilled Sunny won't be able to counter or dodge Miyagi's attacks or counters?

Of course not. Don't you realize that h1's logic dictates the obviously more powerful of the fighters loses?

Originally posted by h1a8
He will still throw one attack at a time. The first attack will be countered.

Ok, so his first attack gets countered. Then he gets floored by the 2nd attack, knocked out by the 3rd and killed by the 4th.

Much as I love Miyagi, you can't really compare his competition to Sunny's.

Bunch of kids and a drunken ptsd candidate?

This is what h1 does. According to him Bane can dodge around Winter Soldier all day, take multiple full force hits from his robo-arm and do massive damage to Soldier with punches.

Its not like Sunny can do something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1erNvtdRbI

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you believe that the faster and more skilled Sunny won't be able to counter or dodge Miyagi's attacks or counters? Miyagi will not attack first.

Sunny can't counter Miyagi's counter because that would make it not a counter. A counter cannot be countered.
A counter occurs when the victim is extended and not able to defend the counter attack.

Originally posted by h1a8
Miyagi will not attack first.

Sunny can't counter Miyagi's counter because that would make it not a counter. A counter cannot be countered.
A counter occurs when the victim is extended and not able to defend the counter attack.

So what do you call it when Sunny hit's Miyagi while he's countering? Because that is what happens even in your weird and wrong scenario.

Originally posted by h1a8
Miyagi will not attack first.

Sunny can't counter Miyagi's counter because that would make it not a counter. A counter cannot be countered.
A counter occurs when the victim is extended and not able to defend the counter attack.

IOW, you're making up definitions again. because that isn't what counter means.

Originally posted by KingD19
So what do you call it when Sunny hit's Miyagi while he's countering? Because that is what happens even in your weird and wrong scenario. He can't do so because he can only throw one attack at a time. Remember, a counter occurs during the attack, not after.

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW, you're making up definitions again. because that isn't what counter means. Doesn't matter what you call it. All that matters is what will happen. Miyagi will counter when Sunny is extended and not recovered.

Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter what you call it. All that matters is what will happen. Miyagi will counter when Sunny is extended and not recovered.

When has Miyagi ever countered someone that is as fast and skilled as Sunny and what is stopping Sunny from countering Miyagi counter?

Originally posted by Silent Master
When has Miyagi ever countered someone that is as fast and skilled as Sunny and what is stopping Sunny from countering Miyagi counter?

What he is trying to do now is essentially what we refer to as "scripting" a fight. He is saying Sunny will do A, Miyagi will do B, and then C will definitely happen. Even though Miyagi has never done that to an opponent of Sunny's caliber in an actual fight before.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
What he is trying to do now is essentially what we refer to as "scripting" a fight. He is saying Sunny will do A, Miyagi will do B, and then C will definitely happen. Even though Miyagi has never done that to an opponent of Sunny's caliber in an actual fight before.

Sunny WILL attack first. This is a fact.
Miyagi DOES have the reactions to respond and the hand speed to defend. This is a fact.
Miyagi is very skilled at countering simultaneously as he is defending against an attack (fact).
Miyagi has exception hand speed to counter Sunny before he can recover from being extended (another fact).

There is no script.

Originally posted by h1a8
Sunny WILL attack first. This is a fact.
Miyagi DOES have the reactions to respond and the hand speed to defend. This is a fact.
Miyagi is very skilled at countering simultaneously as he is defending against an attack (fact).
Miyagi has exception hand speed to counter Sunny before he can recover from being extended (another fact).

There is no script.

You obviously have zero knowledge of how fights actually happen.
An experienced fighter will almost never fully commit to his first attack. Just because Miyagi counter's Sunny's first attack doesn't mean that Sunny would have over extended himself. There's also such a thing as countering a counter. In fact there can be a brief exchange of attacks that all don't land properly.

Lastly, having the reflexes to catch an arrow doesn't mean you can counter. It means you have enough reflexes to move your hand, that doesn't mean you have the strength to block a full strike nor the ability to counter after that block.

Originally posted by h1a8
Sunny WILL attack first. This is a fact.
Miyagi DOES have the reactions to respond and the hand speed to defend. This is a fact.
Miyagi is very skilled at countering simultaneously as he is defending against an attack (fact).
Miyagi has exception hand speed to counter Sunny before he can recover from being extended (another fact).

There is no script.

When has Miyagi ever countered someone that is as fast and skilled as Sunny and what is stopping Sunny from countering Miyagi counter?

Originally posted by Silent Master
When has Miyagi ever countered someone that is as fast and skilled as Sunny and what is stopping Sunny from countering Miyagi counter? Skill is irrelevant to Miyagi seeing Sunny's attack coming forward. It's all about reflexes.

Miyagi has reacted and defended against faster things than Sunny's attacks.

Originally posted by h1a8
Skill is irrelevant to Miyagi seeing Sunny's attack coming forward. It's all about reflexes.

Miyagi has reacted and defended against faster things than Sunny's attacks.

Except a single arrow can't follow up an attack with another attack. An arrow can't counter a counter. An arrow can't feint an attack or change the angle of attack at the last minute. An arrow can't continue pushing forward once you halt its momentum.

An arrow can't boot you 20 feet through a brick wall.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Except a single arrow can't follow up an attack with another attack. An arrow can't counter a counter. An arrow can't feint an attack or change the angle of attack at the last minute. An arrow can't continue pushing forward once you halt its momentum.

But an Arrow can.

Awful puns? Me? Never.

Originally posted by h1a8
Skill is irrelevant to Miyagi seeing Sunny's attack coming forward. It's all about reflexes.

Miyagi has reacted and defended against faster things than Sunny's attacks.

Sunny has faster reflexes, so what is stopping Sunny from countering Miyagi's counter?

BTW, skill is not irrelevant in a fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
Skill is irrelevant to Miyagi seeing Sunny's attack coming forward. It's all about reflexes.

Miyagi has reacted and defended against faster things than Sunny's attacks.

A baseball batter can bat a ball moving faster than 120MPH. Does this mean he can dodge, block strikes and contend against a professional MMA fighter?