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Battle starts in Central Park,100 feet from each other. H2H only. Who wins?

This could go either way IMO. Both are fast, tough, skilled and very agile. Matt would have a tough time KO'ing Batroc, given the shots he took from Cap but, at the same time, Batroc himself never came close to seriously hurting Steve, and has no other fights against anyone of note that allows us to properly gauge his offensive power, because the only times he even got Steve off balance was when he sneak-attacked him. Once Steve got his bearings, he successfully dodged or blocked all of Batroc's hits.

Matt wins

Bump

Batroc wins, with ease.

How does Batroc easily win? His only onscreen fight consists of getting wrecked by Cap, and the only time he was even landing hits on Steve was when he bombarded him right after blindsiding him. After that, he couldn't land a single shot, even after Steve put his shield away. Not saying he can't win, but I fail to see how he could easily do so.

Batroc wins because he didn't get his head knocked off his body against Cap, as Matt almost certainly would.

Because Cap is in the business of decapitating people, and does so all the time? You think Batroc would survive if Cap had actually wanted to kill him?

And again, I did not ask you how he wins. I asked you how he wins "with ease". What has he done to suggest he could easily put Matt down, who himself possesses extreme damage soak?

Extreme damage soak against characters that aren't remotely as strong or quick as Cap.

Matt got his ass kicked all the time. Win or lose.

Cap would breeze through the entire Daredevil 1 and 2, had he replaced Matt. Castle would have been taken out in one punch, the Hand would have been HANDLED (Get it? ), ect ect..

For Batroc to slow up that monster AT ALL is a ridiculous feat well beyond anything Matt could hande, imo.

Originally posted by cdtm
Extreme damage soak against characters that aren't remotely as strong or quick as Cap.

Even without the suit, he has feats like falling through multiple floors without serious injury (the episode with the Russian gangster, after Fisk blew up their warehouse, which Matt was also inside of). Or getting sliced to ribbons, take a beating from Fisk and then get slammed through a desk, and then still dropping one of Fisk's goons and making an escape. Or fighting and beating a group of Russians despite suffering from multiple broken ribs, a concussion, multiple lacerations, a stab wound, and other internal damage, before the fight even started.

Originally posted by cdtm
Matt got his ass kicked all the time. Win or lose.

Yeah, no. I can name several fights where he most certainly did not get his ass kicked. Like multiple fights against groups of Hand guys (once they couldn't hide from him anymore), multiple fights against the Yakuza, the fight against the 3 cops from S1 (while handcuffed), his episode 12 fight against Nobu, his last fight against Punisher etc. just off the top of my head.

Originally posted by cdtm
Cap would breeze through the entire Daredevil 1 and 2, had he replaced Matt. Castle would have been taken out in one punch, the Hand would have been HANDLED (Get it? ), ect ect..

Considering the insane damage Frank has shrugged off, I don't see him getting one-shotted if Steve uses his normal amount of force. Random SHIELD agents weren't getting one-shotted during the elevator fight, because Steve holds back, like he also did against Batroc. And we're not debating Cap vs Matt. We're debating Batroc. Batroc is not even remotely comparable to Steve, so how Steve would have done in Matt's place is completely irrelevant.

Originally posted by cdtm
For Batroc to slow up that monster AT ALL is a ridiculous feat well beyond anything Matt could hande, imo.

Except he didn't slow him up. He sneak attacked him, and the moment Steve got serious Batroc got dropped in a few seconds. So, I disagree that what Batroc showed is well beyond anything Matt could handle.

Four things:
- Batroc had a minute of screentime
- Rogers pwned Batroc once he got serious.
- Matt ran the gauntlet through multiple attackers multiple times, including ninjas whose movements he had to track through their breathing.
- Nobu, IMO, would beat Batroc; Matt took him down on a few occasions.

Mr. Murdock wins.

I don't know if DD has enough stopping power to take out Batroc, especially when he can take multiple hits from Cap before getting KO'd.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't know if DD has enough stopping power to take out Batroc, especially when he can take multiple hits from Cap before getting KO'd.

Good point, Froth. Daredevil not having his billy clubs hurts in that regard, too, as I believe he had them when fighting The Hand, Fisk, and Nobu.

But I thought of another point, Batroc hitting DD should be pretty tough to accomplish.

I think DD could dodge, dodge, dodge, and pick him apart.

^ Nah, if guys like Punishet and Kingpin can hit DD then I don't see why Batroc can't do the same.

This is pretty much why I said I think it could go either way. Because Batroc is extremely tough, but so is Matt, and it is hard to gauge how good Batroc's offensive capability is, based just on his fight with Cap. He was unable to hurt him, but Steve has superhuman durability, so it doesn't tell us how his hits would do against an un-enhanced human. And Matt is a smart enough fighter that he would go for something like a choke hold if he realises he can't quickly KO an opponent (he's also not above breaking bones etc.). It's really difficult to gauge how this would go, given Batroc's extremely limited screen time.

At least with someone like Crossbones, he'd already tussled with Cap before, fought Sam and Black Widow, and had other high-end Hydra/SHIELD agents as a reference.

Originally posted by FrothByte
^ Nah, if guys like Punishet and Kingpin can hit DD then I don't see why Batroc can't do the same.

Ah very true. May I do a quick breakdown?

Batroc:
Pros - Enough strength and fighting skill to knock Cap off balance.
Cons - Very limited screentime, got KO'ed once Cap meant business (but it's Cap, so...)

Daredevil:
Pros - Lots and lots of H2H fights that are 1-on-1 and against groups of enemies. Has shown plenty of durability and resilience to multiple types of trauma, sometimes fighting with multiple injuries. Enhanced senses to detect incoming attacks. His rogues gallery thus far has exhibited some pretty impressive traits (Kingpin's strength and durability, Punisher's durability, Nobu's skill and agility), and Matt went toe-to-toe with them.
Cons - Has caught a lot of beatings, some of the groups he fights are fodder (like the Dogs of Hell). As Froth pointed out well, the enhanced senses don't catch everything, and he gets hit often.

I'm still going with Matt, but it is a close one. It obviously helps that one fighter is the main character of two seasons (about to be three with Defenders), and one fighter was an end-level boss for Cap to manhandle in WS. However, if Matt starts taking a few shots from Batroc, he's in trouble.

Batroc seems far faster and more agile, but it is really hard to rate how strong he is. For the sake of argument I'd say in Matt's league. Matt probably has him on durability and easily on damage soak...

Slight edge to Batroc in a large area but he doesn't want to trade shots with Matt.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
some of the groups he fights are fodder (like the Dogs of Hell).

The Dogs of Hell fight was still a good showing, IMO, if you consider the context of the fight, seeing as:

- Matt was hardly 100%. He'd already had multiple brutal fights with Frank, as well as had a bullet bounce off his forehead (which seemingly caused a concussion, based on his senses spazzing out, the dizziness spell in his apartment, and losing consciousness the one time), all within the space of about 24 hours.

- He had shit taped to his hands, which would have limited his ability to execute a bunch of different moves. He was also fighting in a relatively confined space, which limited his use of his agility, which is one of his stronger areas.

- There were like 20+ of them, and most were carrying weapons, such as clubs, bats, knives etc. and a few even had guns.

In that same scenario, I see a lot of other characters coming up short.