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Im convinced that characters in their first movie are superior to when they are in avengers movies (or movies not their own).

In the following fights Characters are willing to kill and don't hold back. Fights are in barren forest from Avengers movie.

1st fight
Thor from first movie vs. Avengers Thor

2nd Fight
IM from first movie vs IM from Civil War

Bonus Fight
IM from first movie and Avengers Thor
Vs. Civil War IM and Original Thor

A holding back Avengers Thor went toe to toe with a an enraged Hulk in H2H (the same Hulk that can stop a Leviathan with one punch) and called that big ass lightning storm in NY. He can win this.

Tony from IM1 would rip apart any post-IM3 version of himself. In the original Iron Man he could take tank shells and fall hundreds of feet without damage, in IM3 he was getting ripped apart by metahumans and even a truck scrapped one of his armors. In Civil War he got the piss beaten out him by freaking Steve Rogers.

OG versions win Round 3. Thor vs Thor could go either way, but IM1 Tony would wreck his Civil War counterpart based on feats.

I never understood why they kept getting weaker when his arc reactor was more powerful.

Civil War armor gets mutilated by any other armor than the cave suit, heck maybe even then

Originally posted by Psychotron
Tony from IM1 would rip apart any post-IM3 version of himself. In the original Iron Man he could take tank shells and fall hundreds of feet without damage,

I would like to see him try to beat the Iron Man armor from the AOU climax. Which was strong enough manhandle Ultron drones and turn them to scrap in one move, carry that entire family in a bathtub or support that massive S.H.I.E.L.D transporter, repulsors powerful enough to blow the beejus out of the drones or wreck Vibranium Ultron along with Vision and Thor. He also has lasers which can be used multiple times, something that first movie Iron Man doesn't, and those lasers cut up the Ultron drones and cut through the underside of Ultron's device. Its unibeam along with Thor's attack caused the destruction of Sokovia. Finally it was durable enough to go through the entire fight of Sokovia, taking multiple blasts from the drones, tank the falling city crashing onto him, and then finally tank being on the outer edge of the Sokovia explosion and fast enough dodge to all the resultant falling debris.

The armor from the opening has a pretty good chance as well, it was bulletproof, being strong enough to go h2h with Ultron and make him run and tank his hits and blasts, even shrugging off when Ultron gravity pulled him into the side of a building and took chunks off it. It was able to toss Hydra goons pretty far and even wreck their jet packs, plow through an armored truck and casually plow through the forcefield around Loki's sceptre with just the glove. Its repulsors could wreck Ultron's second body, blast through gates, send Hydra tanks flying, destroy concrete bunkers, send Hydra mooks flying with direct hits, and even KOing them by the AOE effects of repulsors blasts hitting something near them, all the while tanking energy blasts from their cannons, one which even blasted him hard enough to embed him into a wall, and took crashing into their forcefield pretty well. It was fast enough to dodge several of those blasts as well. Its scanners were able to pinpoint the weakspot in the forcefield and fire a shoulder missile through it onto the field generator to dissipate it. Its wrist missile obliterated Ultron's second body.

That's all without the Hulkbuster, which could probably solo pretty much every other armor created together. Not to mention Tony getting considerably more experienced and way more skilled in h2h.

Yeah, his AoU armours were probably the best in terms of overall balance. Had all his newer and fancier toys incorporated, but didn't suffer the nerfs his IM3 and Civil War suits did. But at least his IM3 suits were mentioned as being different untested prototypes PTSD Tony built while suffering from insomnia.

It looks like his Homecoming armour will have decent strength levels at least. Based on that ship split, the suit, along with a couple of extra flying repulsors for support, is strong enough to level out half a friggin' ship.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Civil War armor gets mutilated by any other armor than the cave suit, heck maybe even then



I would like to see him try to beat the Iron Man armor from the AOU climax. Which was strong enough manhandle Ultron drones and turn them to scrap in one move, carry that entire family in a bathtub or support that massive S.H.I.E.L.D transporter, repulsors powerful enough to blow the beejus out of the drones or wreck Vibranium Ultron along with Vision and Thor. He also has lasers which can be used multiple times, something that first movie Iron Man doesn't, and those lasers cut up the Ultron drones and cut through the underside of Ultron's device. Its unibeam along with Thor's attack caused the destruction of Sokovia. Finally it was durable enough to go through the entire fight of Sokovia, taking multiple blasts from the drones, tank the falling city crashing onto him, and then finally tank being on the outer edge of the Sokovia explosion and fast enough dodge to all the resultant falling debris.

The armor from the opening has a pretty good chance as well, it was bulletproof, being strong enough to go h2h with Ultron and make him run and tank his hits and blasts, even shrugging off when Ultron gravity pulled him into the side of a building and took chunks off it. It was able to toss Hydra goons pretty far and even wreck their jet packs, plow through an armored truck and casually plow through the forcefield around Loki's sceptre with just the glove. Its repulsors could wreck Ultron's second body, blast through gates, send Hydra tanks flying, destroy concrete bunkers, send Hydra mooks flying with direct hits, and even KOing them by the AOE effects of repulsors blasts hitting something near them, all the while tanking energy blasts from their cannons, one which even blasted him hard enough to embed him into a wall, and took crashing into their forcefield pretty well. It was fast enough to dodge several of those blasts as well. Its scanners were able to pinpoint the weakspot in the forcefield and fire a shoulder missile through it onto the field generator to dissipate it. Its wrist missile obliterated Ultron's second body.

That's all without the Hulkbuster, which could probably solo pretty much every other armor created together. Not to mention Tony getting considerably more experienced and way more skilled in h2h.

I wouldn't brag about killing Ultron bots, I mean everyone was mauling them.

I agree about the rest, though.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, his AoU armours were probably the best in terms of overall balance. Had all his newer and fancier toys incorporated, but didn't suffer the nerfs his IM3 and Civil War suits did. But at least his IM3 suits were mentioned as being different untested prototypes PTSD Tony built while suffering from insomnia.

It looks like his Homecoming armour will have decent strength levels at least. Based on that ship split, the suit, along with a couple of extra flying repulsors for support, is strong enough to level out half a friggin' ship.
Lets hope he won't be jobbed out to the Vulture.

Originally posted by h1a8
Im convinced that characters in their first movie are superior to when they are in avengers movies (or movies not their own).

In the following fights Characters are willing to kill and don't hold back. Fights are in barren forest from Avengers movie.

1st fight
Thor from first movie vs. Avengers Thor

2nd Fight
IM from first movie vs IM from Civil War

Bonus Fight
IM from first movie and Avengers Thor
Vs. Civil War IM and Original Thor

Good match idea, H1.

- Thor 1 vs Avengers Thor could go either way, IMO. Thor 1 had the Bifrost destruction and explosion, Destroyer fight (blocking and turning Destroyer-vision back on the Destroyer and creating the tornado), and beginning ice giant fight feats; Avengers Thor had the holding back and still fighting evenly with Hulk and thunder storm in NY mentioned by Psychotron, and Leviathan hammer kill feats, along with busting through that cage built for the Hulk (ya, no proof of that beyond Fury and Loki's exchange about the glass cage being there for the purpose of confining Hulk, but thought I'd mention it). I'd proll

- As mentioned by everyone else, any version of IM armor from 1 (sans cave armor), 2, Avengers 1, or Avengers 2 wrecks shop against the IM3 and CW suits, especially the Civil War special.

- Bonus round I give to IM 1 Tony and Avengers Thor, as CW IM finds himself catching a sudden case of death, and it's a whole lot more likely that IM 1 Tony will be able to defend himself and exchange blows with Thor 1 + Avengers Thor fighting Thor 1 as well.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Lets hope he won't be jobbed out to the Vulture.

Boy, if that happens the only low points for Tony that could rival a beating by Michael Keaton would be a truck obliterating his armor in 3 and peeing himself in 2.

In all seriousness, I thought the same thing once the news broke that Tony would be in competition with Vulture being a fellow tech business mogul. Even though it most likely ain't gonna happen, it'd be great if Vulture and Spider-Man were having a back-and-forth close fight, then Tony comes in and blasts Vulture to kingdom come haha.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Boy, if that happens the only low points for Tony that could rival a beating by Michael Keaton would be a truck obliterating his armor in 3 and peeing himself in 2.
You know, in his first scene in 2 he was hurt by a firecracker, when he did that jump into the expo.
Originally posted by John Murdoch

In all seriousness, I thought the same thing once the news broke that Tony would be in competition with Vulture being a fellow tech business mogul. Even though it most likely ain't gonna happen, it'd be great if Vulture and Spider-Man were having a back-and-forth close fight, then Tony comes in and blasts Vulture to kingdom come haha.
I seriously doubt the chance of that happening, and hope it doesn't, since that would totally dump on Spidey's glory and piss off his fans. Lets hope Sony isn't stupid enough to do that.
Though, Tony and Vulture duking it out without their suits and Tony kicking his ass would be nice.

I could potentially see a suited-up Vulture (or maybe Shocker #1 or #2) blindsiding a suit-less Tony, and putting him in the hospital or something, which would be a way to have him be in the film but not be present during the climax, and provide Peter with even more motivation to take Vulture down.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
You know, in his first scene in 2 he was hurt by a firecracker, when he did that jump into the expo.

I seriously doubt the chance of that happening, and hope it doesn't, since that would totally dump on Spidey's glory and piss off his fans. Lets hope Sony isn't stupid enough to do that.
Though, Tony and Vulture duking it out without their suits and Tony kicking his ass would be nice.

Forgot about that in 2.

And ya, I know, and it shouldn't really; it would soil Spider-Man's return to the big screen. He's gotta have his first big challenge that he overcomes all by his lonesome.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I could potentially see a suited-up Vulture (or maybe Shocker #1 or #2) blindsiding a suit-less Tony, and putting him in the hospital or something, which would be a way to have him be in the film but not be present during the climax, and provide Peter with even more motivation to take Vulture down.

Agreed with both you, Vault, and/or HulkisHulk: I'm sure there will be at least one scene or more with Tony and Toomes verbally-sparring, Toomes taking out Tony whilst he's having dinner, etc.

Spider-man's return has already been soiled by the horrible casting and this movie basically being Iron Man 4.

Avengers 2 Thor has the best Thor feat

IM2 Tony's laser would murder IM1 Tony

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Avengers 2 Thor has the best Thor feat

IM2 Tony's laser would murder IM1 Tony

What Thor feat is that and is it relevant/practical in a No Holding Back forum fight?

I agree 100% about that laser, but this fight is with the Civil War IM.

Vaporizing most of Sokovia (almost called it Slovakia) even if it was amped by the vibranium rod, it's still an insane feat as not only de he destroy stone but also everything a modern city has.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Avengers 2 Thor has the best Thor feat

IM2 Tony's laser would murder IM1 Tony

All his subsequent suits had the lasers, including the Civil War suit. The only thing that changed is that Tony improved their efficiency as the films progressed. He uses them at 1:14 here, to try and cut Cap off from following him:

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Ironman vs. Ironman is easy, since his first movie showcased him being a lot tougher than his proceeding suits. Especially if we consider IM1 and IM2 combined, because IM2 gave him that uber laser.

Thor vs Thor is harder to call, because Thor continued to showcase feats of immense power throughout the movies. One big difference though is how smart Thor fought in his first movie and how easily he and creatively he used his powers. For example, spinning his hammer to create ice projectiles, utilizing a whirlwind to incapacitate his enemies, the Jotunheim strike, his "hammer-time" moves in dispatching multiple Frost Giants... heck had Thor behaved like that in Avengers and AoU he could have taken the entire chitauri/ultron ground forces on his own.

Another aspect is how fast he could utilize his powers in the first movie. In Avengers for example, he called down lightning first before redirecting it to IM. He called down lightning first before he redirected it to the Leviathans. In comparison, his AOE lightning strike against Loki was near instantaneous. Even his Jotunheim strike was vastly faster than his lightning strikes in Avengers.

So with that in mind, Thor 1 would defeat any other Thor incarnation, simply because of how dominant he was and how he showcased mastery of his powers.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Vaporizing most of Sokovia (almost called it Slovakia) even if it was amped by the vibranium rod, it's still an insane feat as not only de he destroy stone but also everything a modern city has. The feat is unquantifiable. It was many variables that played a role.

1. Engines were overloaded by IM
2. Engines already had energy
3. A large structure collapses in a domino effect when a critical part is severed.
4. Thor struck the generator and sent lightning through it.
5. We see the land mass blow up from energy that was within it.

You've been called on and corrected about your massively biased interpretation of that scene multiple times, why do you keep trying?

Originally posted by h1a8
The feat is unquantifiable. It was many variables that played a role.

1. Engines were overloaded by IM
2. Engines already had energy
3. A large structure collapses in a domino effect when a critical part is severed.
4. Thor struck the generator and sent lightning through it.
5. We see the land mass blow up from energy that was within it. The Rod didn't explode, and we see practically no debris.

Tony hit the engine to stop the engine, there is no evidence it did anything to the land mass.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
The Rod didn't explode, and we see practically no debris.

Tony hit the engine to stop the engine, there is no evidence it did anything to the land mass. Huh? We see lightning go through the metal and send more energy into the engines. That's why the rod didn't explode. It channeled the energy through the engines.

Even IM tells Thor to wait until he's finished overloading the engines. The writer's intent is crystal clear. IM contributed to the feat.

But all of this is moot anyway.
Thor stood there charging his hammer for over 10 seconds.
This would give tens of thousands more energy than a standard bolt of lightning.
This is not practical in a forum fight. Thor would not sit there and let Thor charge his Hammer for 10 seconds.

Thor from the first movie did Jotunheim feat with only 2-4 seconds of charge.

If I'm not mistaken, holding an electric current longer or shorter does not change it's voltage and ampere. You still get jolted by the same amount of voltage whether it's a prolonged exposure or a short one, you just get exposed to it longer. But holding the charge longer does not "amplify" it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If I'm not mistaken, holding an electric current longer or shorter does not change it's voltage and ampere. You still get jolted by the same amount of voltage whether it's a prolonged exposure or a short one, you just get exposed to it longer. But holding the charge longer does not "amplify" it. No Thor was absorbing the lightning, not holding it.

Originally posted by h1a8
No Thor was absorbing the lightning, not holding it.

So prove it. Prove that Thor can absorb electricity and then amplify its charge.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So prove it. Prove that Thor can absorb electricity and then amplify its charge. Its been proven in every movie. Mjolnir can hold energy from lightning after absorbing it from the sky.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ironman vs. Ironman is easy, since his first movie showcased him being a lot tougher than his proceeding suits. Especially if we consider IM1 and IM2 combined, because IM2 gave him that uber laser.

Thor vs Thor is harder to call, because Thor continued to showcase feats of immense power throughout the movies. One big difference though is how smart Thor fought in his first movie and how easily he and creatively he used his powers. For example, spinning his hammer to create ice projectiles, utilizing a whirlwind to incapacitate his enemies, the Jotunheim strike, his "hammer-time" moves in dispatching multiple Frost Giants... heck had Thor behaved like that in Avengers and AoU he could have taken the entire chitauri/ultron ground forces on his own.

Another aspect is how fast he could utilize his powers in the first movie. In Avengers for example, he called down lightning first before redirecting it to IM. He called down lightning first before he redirected it to the Leviathans. In comparison, his AOE lightning strike against Loki was near instantaneous. Even his Jotunheim strike was vastly faster than his lightning strikes in Avengers.

So with that in mind, Thor 1 would defeat any other Thor incarnation, simply because of how dominant he was and how he showcased mastery of his powers.

Good points, Froth. I can see the two Thors fight going either way; the Jotunheim buster feat is what I forgot about that opening ice giant fight. Great feat. I'm up in the air on Thor vs Thor.

Everyone agrees Tony from IM 1 beats the brakes off Tony from CW.

I do wonder how the fight between the teams would play out?