Hajime no Ippo

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cdtm
Apparently, they only have season 3 on Crunchyroll.

So, the main character is only a junior featherweight? And Takamura Mamoru, he's a middleweight?

What, no heavyweights?

cdtm
Hmm, so featherweight tops out around 126 lbs.

And middeweight bottoms out at about 160.

All Ippo would need to do is put on 40 lbs, so he could fight Takamura Mamoru as a middleweight. Totally realistic and reasonable in an anime series. thumb up

Bentley
Takamura is probably a natural light heavyweight, he just loses weight whenever he needs to compete in lower classes.

vansonbee
Are you caught up with the manga or just the anime? You like the series?

Bentley
I've read the manga and seen some of the animations (boxing is dynamic enough to justify watching it in motion, even though the manga art is great). Real fun series.

AuraAngel
The logic is that there aren't enough big guys in Japan to justify a heavyweight division.

Also if you're looking for realistic weight to body mass ratios this is not the best series for that lol.

https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/ippo/images/8/89/Iwao2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110131065324

That is a Featherweight.

Bentley
With those muscles he'd need to be shorter than Gimli big grin

AuraAngel
He is 1 inch smaller than Ippo lol.

But hey there are sillier things in manga.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Apparently, they only have season 3 on Crunchyroll.

So, the main character is only a junior featherweight? And Takamura Mamoru, he's a middleweight?

What, no heavyweights? Takamura's goal is to become champion of each six weight classes (starting with junior middleweight and ending with heavyweight). Ippo is not a junior featherweight; he's a featherweight.

Anyways, the anime is waaaaaaaaay behind the manga. Not sure we'll ever get a complete anime adaptation. And at the rate the series is going, the author might die of old age before finishing it. sad

Yamcha
Every single time I see more interest in Hajime no Ippo it makes me ecstatic.

cdtm
Originally posted by vansonbee
Are you caught up with the manga or just the anime? You like the series?

Skipped right to whatever's on Crunchy, which appears to be season 3 of the anime.

Yes, I'm liking it. Lot of good secondary characters, and villains/anti heroes seem interesting.

Takamura is great, what with his perpetually bored expression and backhanded compliments.

AuraAngel
Takamura is a shitty human being but damn if he's not just about the best character in the series lol.

cdtm
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Takamura is a shitty human being but damn if he's not just about the best character in the series lol.

NUrQ9c6y2SQ

The end might be my favorite scene in the history of good scenes.

The look on Ippo's face. I think he pissed himself a little. laughing

cdtm
Up to post rookie tournament, as Ippo's training for his mirror image boxing nerd from the South side.

Not even up to 100 chapters, and this thing runs in to the thousands. A looong way to go

Pretty funny seeing the some of the jokes. "A woman as a doctor?!" "Black guys are naturally have more spring in their step". laughing

Also kind of funny how Ippo struggles against EVERYONE. I get the hero is usually a perpetual underdog, but you get the impression if they put him up against a 3 year old, he'd barely squeek by a victory and somehow break every bone in his body trying. laughing out loud

But I guess winning with ease is Takamura's thing. Ippo is the hard working underdog, and Takamura is the mary sue the writer stuck into the background so he can write what he REALLY wants without criticism. smile

AuraAngel
You joke but the hardest fight Ippo has ever had, except against the people he lost to obviously, was against a young dude who had only ever participated in 3 matches at that point and was Takamura levels of extreme talent.

cdtm
Will look forward to it.

Kind of thought out of all the Rookie King competitors, the guy who gave him the toughest fight was the one who aimed for points and clinched/ran away. Because he had Ippo cold.. If he didn't get greedy, he would have won.

Ippo didn't beat him, his opponent beat himself.

AuraAngel
That guy also beats Hayami later.

Saying the guy beat himself is a bit unfair though. Any competition involves mental fortitude and that guy simply lost his there at the end. It sucks but it happens.

cdtm
The speedy guy at the start of his final road to the title certainly lost his mental fortitude. Ippo put some fear in him.

And if Takamura was there, he probably would have smacked Ippo for giving away a future opponents weakness to him. Now he'll work on varying his timing, so he'll never be tagged in someones blind spot..

AuraAngel
He'll be back but sadly he simply gets left behind by Ippo and the others. His final fight is awesome but yeah it's not that big a deal.

cdtm
That's a shame, he was a monster among monsters in that first fight.

I hate to say it, but Miyata is kind of an idiot. His obsession with Ippo is ruining his career, when he should really stick to junior lightweight/lightweight.

If he wants a rematch so bad, he can set up an exibition. Heck, a champ vs champ exibition bout would be a great draw, he could have aimed for that and fought Ippo when he's 100% healthy , instead of gimped by extreme dieting habits.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
That's a shame, he was a monster among monsters in that first fight.

I hate to say it, but Miyata is kind of an idiot. His obsession with Ippo is ruining his career, when he should really stick to junior lightweight/lightweight.
I cannot WAIT to see your reaction when you reach the Miyata vs Randy Boy Jr fight! You might start making comments similar to the ones you make about DBS. laughing out loud

cdtm
Hopefully that isn't for another 1,000 chapters. smile

Another thing I'm starting to realize: Ippo has a TERRIBLE coach. Seriously, Kamogawa's go-to strategy is "Hope they wear themselves out hitting you in the head." He won't even try teaching him tactics, because he doesn't think he can learn (This is the same Ippo who learned, on his own, to measure another boxers rythem and predict where he is in his blind spot.)

Poor Ippo's gonna end up with worse brain damage then Rocky Balboa before his careers half over.

AuraAngel
That fight is in the 800-1000 range iirc.

Kamogawa likes bricks and likes his boxers to be able to tank. But he definitely focuses on offense rather then dodging because of his own backstory.

cdtm
Been thinking about the Volg fight I read about a week ago. Initially loved it, thought it was epic, and really showed the heart of both fighters.

But the more I think about it, the more it seems a bit tarnished.. My main problem, is up to that point, Makunouchi was pushed as an insanely hard hitter. He's a puncher who can end it with just ONE solid hit. Take a series of them, and you're usually hospitalized.

And now here comes Volg, who has the distinction of not only being the first boxer to take Makunouchi to the final round, but also to be the first boxer who forced him to go past his limits and actually damage his health. Makunouchi was in a coma for three days as a result of his injuries.

And Volg? He walked away, just a little bumped and bruised. After taking a Gazalle Punch, a move so powerful it hit the heavy bag into the ceiling.

That's crazy. At the very least, Volg should have needed to be carried on his trainers shoulder, not walked out like he didn't just take more punch's then from that monster then anyone else in the series.

This fight is akin to Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michels II, where Shawn takes an ankle lock for ten minutes, taps, and then walks off without a limp. Shawn probably figured no one would notice, and be too busy cheering Angles win, but fans noticed.

It's true. It's damned true.

Bentley
It's later revealed that Volg was holding back and that he's truly World Champion material. His marty stuness probably grants him high end invulnerability.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by Bentley
It's later revealed that Volg was holding back and that he's truly World Champion material. His marty stuness probably grants him high end invulnerability. I think Mori basically made that up out of the blue. The notion that Vorg would've won since he's out-fighting is better is BS when we look back to the actual fight:

http://i9.mangapanda.com/hajime-no-ippo/161/hajime-no-ippo-1789209.jpg

See the bottom three panels. The notion that "Vorg would've easily won had he used his out-fighting" style is complete and utter BS. Mori made that sh-t up on the spot due to Vorg's rising popularity. It was never intended from the getgo laughing

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Been thinking about the Volg fight I read about a week ago. Initially loved it, thought it was epic, and really showed the heart of both fighters.

But the more I think about it, the more it seems a bit tarnished.. My main problem, is up to that point, Makunouchi was pushed as an insanely hard hitter. He's a puncher who can end it with just ONE solid hit. Take a series of them, and you're usually hospitalized.

And now here comes Volg, who has the distinction of not only being the first boxer to take Makunouchi to the final round, but also to be the first boxer who forced him to go past his limits and actually damage his health. Makunouchi was in a coma for three days as a result of his injuries.

And Volg? He walked away, just a little bumped and bruised. After taking a Gazalle Punch, a move so powerful it hit the heavy bag into the ceiling.

That's crazy. At the very least, Volg should have needed to be carried on his trainers shoulder, not walked out like he didn't just take more punch's then from that monster then anyone else in the series.

This fight is akin to Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michels II, where Shawn takes an ankle lock for ten minutes, taps, and then walks off without a limp. Shawn probably figured no one would notice, and be too busy cheering Angles win, but fans noticed.

It's true. It's damned true. Due to Mori's later retcons, Vorg is completely and utterly broken. Not quite as broken as Takamura, but broken in a way you'll see once you reach the 1000th chapter or whatever.

Yamcha
Volg gets a pass for anything because he essentially uses the Wolf Fang Fist, anyone using anything Wolf related gets a pass. I wish we got to see more of Young Nekota though sad...he was always one of my favorites. I remember playing Victorious Boxers back in the day on PS2 before I knew what the series was and being like "Who the **** is Ralph Anderson and why is he so hard to defeat? Why do I have to be this slow asshat Kamogawa, I wanna be that Nekota guy!"

Bentley
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
I think Mori basically made that up out of the blue. The notion that Vorg would've won since he's out-fighting is better is BS when we look back to the actual fight:

http://i9.mangapanda.com/hajime-no-ippo/161/hajime-no-ippo-1789209.jpg

See the bottom three panels. The notion that "Vorg would've easily won had he used his out-fighting" style is complete and utter BS. Mori made that sh-t up on the spot due to Vorg's rising popularity. It was never intended from the getgo laughing

Volg got retconned into lying to his coach in those panels smile

cdtm
So how does the "outboxing" excuse work with Sendou? Could Vorg have easily won an outbox on points, too?

I'm giving the ref the benefit of the doubt and assume he's incompetent and really thought Vorg got knocked down for -2 points (Counting the first down), and not biased.

cdtm
Sendou stomped the speed star?

Want to call bullshit. His whole thing is being so fast no one can even see him move, and Sendou was always about as fast as Ippo.

cdtm
So it was Vorg who countered the dempsy roll?

I watched the third season anime before reading the manga, so remembered that as Miyata.

Funny thing about the Russian guy, everyone thinks he's invincible and just has bad luck. You know who else was really, really strong and had bad luck and a string of losses?

Yamcha.

Guy was unlucky enough to draw f'n Kami when he spirit bomb would have destroyed just about anyone else sans Piccolo or Goku. He was unlucky enough to draw Tenshinhan as a starter, and still accounted well for himself. And in the Halloween monster freak show tourney, Goku gets someone who's main tech is useless, and Yamcha gets an overpowered brick only Goku can beat. Basically, he was way stronger then Krillin, about on par with Ten, but never caught a break.

Vorg doesn't have a win against a top guy, he just has excuses. And from what I read, there's never been an official rematch, and probably never will be because the author painted himself into a corner building up this character as unstoppable, meaning Ippo beating him clean isn't an option, and the kind of win Sendou got would be cheap and unsatisfying (And frankly, I thought Sendou did way better then Ippo. Behind on points but doing MASSIVE damage.)

cdtm
So how strong is Ippo? He can actually rock Takamura, so he must punch waaay above his weight class.

How high up the chain do you think he can do damage, without actually changing weight classes?

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
So how strong is Ippo? He can actually rock Takamura, so he must punch waaay above his weight class.

How high up the chain do you think he can do damage, without actually changing weight classes?
Later on, Ippo literally oneshots a dude who is two weight classes above him. He is massively strong. His defense on the other hand . . . is massively lacking. roll eyes (sarcastic)

cdtm
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Later on, Ippo literally oneshots a dude who is two weight classes above him. He is massively strong. His defense on the other hand . . . is massively lacking. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Damn.

And they say in real life, 7 lbs makes the difference between knocking guys out and not doing any damage at all for a lot of boxers.

AuraAngel
It should be noted that the guy he knocked out literally starved himself for a chance to fight Ippo so he wasn't in the best shape.

On the other hand, Ippo plowed through the second strongest counter of his life and still knocked him out so maybe it cancels out.

Funnily enough Vorg claims Sendo hits harder. He would know I guess.

cdtm
Is the guy Miyata?

Because he starves himself to fight Ippo, and his natural weight is light, two classes above.

AuraAngel
No. It's another guy and I think he was a weight class above Miyata.

To this day Miyata and Ippo have never fought as professional boxers.

cdtm
......over 1200 chapters in, and they never... confused

Does Ippo at least become more sure of himself? He's been pro for over two years by my reading, and he still approach's every single fight like it's his first. Even Kenichi was eventually like "I've got this", instead of "Ahhh! What do I doooo!"

vansonbee
With recent chapters and a fight against a nobody, is the series ending soon or something? For some reason Ippo should of destroyed this opponent in less than few chapters, but its really dragged out. Plus, his old rivals are there to comment on his fight, it feels like its the final one.

If so, its lame that Ippo isn't even close to fighting the world champion or Miyata...

cdtm
I really don't like what I'm hearing about punch's being "charged" for several issues.

Uncomfortably close to Dragon Ball..

AuraAngel
Originally posted by cdtm
I really don't like what I'm hearing about punch's being "charged" for several issues.

Uncomfortably close to Dragon Ball..

The fights get more silly later but I don't recall charged punches being a thing.

Originally posted by vansonbee
With recent chapters and a fight against a nobody, is the series ending soon or something? For some reason Ippo should of destroyed this opponent in less than few chapters, but its really dragged out. Plus, his old rivals are there to comment on his fight, it feels like its the final one.

If so, its lame that Ippo isn't even close to fighting the world champion or Miyata...

It's his return bout. Gotta have some drama to it.

cdtm
I like Sendou. Kind of reminds me of a mix of Kazuma from S-Cry-Ed, Ryoga Hibiki, and Sanosuke..

Alsl glad to hear Mashiba keeps up his dominance. Some are saying he may be the only one who can compare with Vorg (Miyata is treated like a joke. Obviously pre super sonic punch.. Date apparently burns out later, which is a shame as I like his character and loved how he beat Ippo..) And no one really talks about Sendou, which makes sense since most characters like him who start off strong and baddass get settled into mid tier..

JayDaDon
Didnt expect to see this as one of the main topics. Love this anime/manga. One of my favorite of all time. Would kill for another season of the anime.

cdtm
Takamura vs Brian Hawk was amazing. And now that I'm seeing everything that happened before in the manga, it's even more amazing.

So Ippo knocked out a welterweight, yet couldn't KO Aoki.

Was Ippo sparring scrubs? Or is Aoki a lot better then you'd think by his clown antics?

I'd guess Ippo probably holds back unconsciously against a sempai though..

AuraAngel
Ippo has never been as mad as he was against that Welterweight. He will never throw a punch like that again.

http://img.readms.net/cdn/manga/25/530/15_16.png

This is Ippo before that fight to drive home how utterly out of character he was.

cdtm
That does not look like Ippo at all. eek!

I was talking about his pre Sendou spar though. Took in five fighters, including a welterweight he seemingly dropped in two blows.

Then he capped it off by sparring Aoki. One could make the excuse Ippo was tired, and Aoki was certainly in a terribly beat up condition, to the point where Kimura and even Takamura were looking on in shock, wondering how he was still standing.

I'd like to imagine Aoki used every dirty trick in the book, just to say he broke the streak.

cdtm
Nearing the end of Sendou fight 2.

I know how this ends, but they've really built up Sendou into the anti-ippo. Same basic style, same determination, same power, but cocky to Ippo's humble, a natural talent at a young age compared to Ippo's pure workhorse ethic. Basically the Ken to Ippo's Ryu.

I hope he doesn't fade out later in the series.

It's also always good to see Mashiba, and his "epic confrontation" with Kimura was hillarious.

Kimura and Aoki kind of got the short end of the stick in the training department though.. Kamogawa focus's almost exclusively on Takamura and Ippo (As seen when he didn't even know how to approach his other students), and I haven't seen heckle and jeckle do much more then be Ippo's punching bag. And for a guy like Mashiba, he really can't go it alone, he's gonna need all the training he can get..

cdtm
Kimura vs Mashiba might be the best underdog story of the manga.

Bentley
Kimura's trainer is not Kamogowa, it's Shinoda.

cdtm
You wouldn't know it, based on how often he was ever seen being trained by anyone. Which by my count as of the Mashiba fight is never.

I thought Shinoda worked for Kamogawa or something. He was right there embracing Ippo when he won the japanese title.

Bentley
Shinoda acts as a second for Kamogawa in most matches, so yeah, you notice him first in that setting.

I kind of wonder how they worked before Miyata Senior left for a different Gym.

cdtm
Finished up the doctor and old rival/friend of Kamogawa.

Absolutely loved them both. Hama Dankichi kind of reminds me of Quint from Jaws. laughing

Sanada Kazuki was, in a way, very scary. Like a surgeon with a scalpel, targeting each of Ippo's vital organ's with pinpoint precision. Honestly, looking at how badly he messed Ippo up, and how he really only lost due to a coin flip, choosing a haymaker over a more controlled attack and falling over, makes him the most impressive fighter of the series to this point.. Virtually every other opponent had an "out" where they screwed up, or where Ippo did something that directly led to his winning. But in the case of Sanada, it all came down to desperation and a prayer.. And it paid off.

Up to that rush, Kazuki was perfect. And Dankichi was the exact opposite of Kamogawa, freely portioning out his advice instead of holding back and letting his student do all the heavy lifting himself.

They made a good team. A shame about the post fight, personally I like Kazuki more then Sendou, Miyata, or Vorg (Hell, I fail to get the hype around Vorg after his work.. Yeah, Vorgs good, but the doctor was something else.)

I still prefer Date to all of them, though. Most relatable by far, and hard not to like him.

AuraAngel
Kazuki was a cool guy. Wish he hadn't quit being a boxer but I suppose he's happy. And Dankichi actually teams up with Vorg later so he still gets to be a cool guy.

Dark-Kenshin
Would have liked to have seen Itagaki face off against Kazuki.

AuraAngel
Yeah that would have been cooler than whoever he fought first in the speed tournament(I forget who it was ;_; )

cdtm
Oh yeah, the arm wrestling thing was pretty "OVER THE TOP". wink

I have a hard time believing Ippo could push Takamura that far, given the cabin training..

cdtm
So, the OPBF title is better than the Japanese title?

OPBF is basically the asian title, right? Sanctioned by many countries in a certain area?

If it's better, why did Miyata get a shot before someone like Ippo or Takamura? Why didn't Date go for it?

Sounds like all national/regional titles are just stepping stones to a world title shot anyways, but they made it pretty clear OPBF > Japanese champ.

AuraAngel
Takamura was in a hurry to conquer his first weight class with a world belt(and Kamogawa is as well) while Date doesn't really want it. A title requires defending and Date is laser focused on getting to Ricardo first. One doesn't need to be a title holder to make a name for oneself on the world stage. So long as a fight is guaranteed to make money the most popular fighters like Sendou or Date are able to excel.

Miyata probably only went after the OPBF because it allowed him to surpass Ippo more quickly and because his travel did make him more well known in Asia in general.

cdtm
Miyata fought a match a month, and starves himself to feebleness, all to surpass Ippo.

Miyata, I think you may have a problem. Just like Captain Ahab did.

cdtm
I want to see Takamura spar Ricardo Martinez now.

If Sendou can tag him..

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
I want to see Takamura spar Ricardo Martinez now.

If Sendou can tag him.. Takamura lost to David Eagle in my opinion, so I'd reckon Ricardo Martinez is better contrary to the author's claims otherwise. laughing out loud

Dark-Kenshin
In other news, just read the latest chapter. For the first time in a long time, I am seriously considering dropping this manga. I am convinced the author has nothing but hatred and contempt towards the title character. roll eyes (sarcastic)

AuraAngel
I'm fine with the manga right now. It just feels worse cause it is a wait for chapters instead of the massive back catalogue.

Originally posted by cdtm
I want to see Takamura spar Ricardo Martinez now.

If Sendou can tag him..

We don't really know enough about Martinez frankly. Date is the closet person to give him a "challenge" but even he basically failed to make the world champ break a sweat.

Takamura has Word of God on his side and the advantage of a higher weight class so there is that.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by AuraAngel
I'm fine with the manga right now. It just feels worse cause it is a wait for chapters instead of the massive back catalogue.



We don't really know enough about Martinez frankly. Date is the closet person to give him a "challenge" but even he basically failed to make the world champ break a sweat.

Takamura has Word of God on his side and the advantage of a higher weight class so there is that. Takamura cheated to beat David Eagle and would've lost by TKO had the ref been doing his job. wink

AuraAngel
That is probably true but the ref is Japanese so it could have been an inside job~

I wish more fights took place outside of Japan.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by AuraAngel
That is probably true but the ref is Japanese so it could have been an inside job~

I wish more fights took place outside of Japan. It's totally unrealistic for a world champion to do multiple world title fights in Japan. That would never happen in real life. They would've dragged Takamura to Las Vegas or there would have been no fight. The only reason Mori does it is because it makes it easier Ippo, Itagaki, Miyata, Sendo or Mashiba simultaneously being on Takamura's undercard, thereby allowing him to do multiple fights in the same arc.

cdtm
"Pros need to cheat. The brats soft. Look at that awesome cheating."

mad

cdtm
Haha, no I get that wasn't even about "Hammer Nao", but about Ippo's soft spot.

Was kind of a sad reunion.. I also thought Coach Kamogawa was unusually focused on keeping them from having a proper catching up. His excuse that winners have nothing to say to losers rings hollow, given all the times Sendou or Date or Vorg or Speed Star visited Ippo after a match. Wonder if he was hurt more by losing a student then he let on, and nursed a bit of a grudge..

AuraAngel
Kamogawa does have a sore spot about stuff like that. It's not apparent yet but he is still very mad about Miyata and his dad leaving.

vansonbee
So you guys caught up w/ the manga? I'm disappointed that the author didn't go down the route where Ippo kills the current opponent by accident and drags out the manga more more story lines.

AuraAngel
I don't think Ippo would continue boxing if he actually killed someone lol.

Bentley
Originally posted by AuraAngel
I don't think Ippo would continue boxing if he actually killed someone lol.

What if he killed someone in his boat instead of in the ring? Would he stop boxing?

cdtm
Probably, knowing Ippo even at chapter 300+. laughing out loud

If Ippo hasn't had a freak out over a near death experience yet, but does it later, then that's likely one case of Kenichi inspiring the manga that inspired it..

cdtm
So am I right to call Itagaki "Mini-Miyata" and Imai Kyousuke "Mini-Ippo"?

Although Itagaki seems the more inferior copy. Ippo beat him a lot easier then Kyousuke in spar, that's for sure.

AuraAngel

cdtm
I like how he flipped off the audience and said "kiss my ass" at Takamura's first world title win.

cdtm
Up to the man of the sea. So Ippo ends another boxing career.

Is he in competition with Mashiba or something? smile

I saw the Rising version not long ago, and there was a lot left out. Almost no real build up, some scenes completely cut, and a lot of the tension and drama didn't make it in. Basically, he was an unmemorable "monster of the week" in the show, compared to the Eagle fight, the flashback to world war II, and that one fighter who's like a more sadistic Mashiba that talks about fights like they're steaks.

cdtm
Speaking of hard feelings, like Miyata leaving the gym, I wonder if Kamogawa kind of blames Ippo for driving him off, and considers him an inferior consolation prize.

He IS pretty hard on Ippo. Couldn't even stop calling him "Brat" when he won the national title. And then he crushed his confidence by claiming Miyata blew past him.

I doubt they'll ever "go there", but if Miyata is considered > Ippo, it's not much of a leap of logic.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Speaking of hard feelings, like Miyata leaving the gym, I wonder if Kamogawa kind of blames Ippo for driving him off, and considers him an inferior consolation prize.

He IS pretty hard on Ippo. Couldn't even stop calling him "Brat" when he won the national title. And then he crushed his confidence by claiming Miyata blew past him.

I doubt they'll ever "go there", but if Miyata is considered > Ippo, it's not much of a leap of logic. No way. Miyata actually uses his head whereas Kamogawa wants fighters who win after getting their brains bashed in (which is why he seems like Ippo more than Takamura).

cdtm
No wonder Miyata keeps challenging him, he's probably afraid he'll miss his chance to severe brain damage. laughing

cdtm
I side with Sendou, Ippo is VASTLY overpowered against Sawamura. All the buildup he got, dodging Mashiba's flicker, freaking out Vorg, easily beating the "Man of the sea" who Ippo barely scraped by in his last match.

Frankly, Ippo looks kind of like an idiot for relying in the Dempsy when he has that much power and speed. Drop the DR, up your stupidly ridiculous power until you start breaking arms.

cdtm
Much as I like the Sawamura fight, all this talk of an "evolved dempsy" is annoying.

A tactic that destroys your knees and hips is NOT viable! Ippo isn't using this against every counter puncher!

The fact Ippo has to resort to such self destructive measures should be proof enough he should either drop the dempsy roll, or come up with something else against counters.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Much as I like the Sawamura fight, all this talk of an "evolved dempsy" is annoying.

A tactic that destroys your knees and hips is NOT viable! Ippo isn't using this against every counter puncher!

The fact Ippo has to resort to such self destructive measures should be proof enough he should either drop the dempsy roll, or come up with something else against counters. laughing out loud

Man . . . if you only knew. The current fight in the manga is gonna be a real trip for you. laughing

AuraAngel
Yeah pretty much.

I don't blame Ippo. The dude discovered the Dempsey Roll on his own so it makes sense that he desperately wants to make it work. I actually think it is exciting watching him try and optimize his fighting style but it does give him tunnel vision as the most recent chapters are driving home.

cdtm
Why am I picturing a conversation between Ippo and Kamogawa where the latter says "YOU'RE DESTROYING YOUR CAREER!", and the former with a half crazed look says "Maybe knee replacements.. No, prosthetic legs!", as the crew looks on in horror?

AuraAngel
You don't really need to imagine it.

http://img.readms.net/cdn/manga/25/4638/002.png

God this manga looks so good.

cdtm
Damn right. thumb up

Sawamura and Mashiba need a proper fight. Scary evil vs goofy evil, Flicker vs bullet, cheater vs cheater.

AuraAngel
Oh boy, they get their fight. It's one of the best in the series.

cdtm
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies/boxing.gif

cdtm
After the "coconut" fight, if I was Ippo I'd tell Kamogawa I want to go up to Lightweight, so I can cakewalk to the world. smile

Seriously, it seems like Featherweight has all the monsters. Kimura, he has to contend with Mashiba (And apparently later Sawamura), but who's in Aoki's class? No real monsters.

Just about anyone from Featherweight could steamroll Lightweight in a week.

Hell, Kimura would he viable on that stage! His friendship with Aoki held back his career, I just can't feel bad for Aoki when everyone makes fun of him.

cdtm
Some random thoughts at this point in the story:

I'm more on board with Vorg now. I don't agree with his "word of god" hyping at the main characters expense, but it's hard not to back someone that lost literally everything, and needs a handout just to find where to go or sleep inside.

The more I see of Mashiba, the more I like him. His concern for his sister is awww. smile

As always, I like Sendou as a character. He's by far one of the more relatable characters, but his appeal is how he's strong, yet a genuinely nice guy. Most strong guys in this manga are either sociopaths (Mashiba) or dicks (Miyata), and Sendou is neither.

Especially when he interacts with Ippo, you can't help but like him. He seems to "get" Ippo, and treats him like a younger brother instead of a hated rival. (I also HATE his grandmother for calling him a thug. Even if he was in a gang, he never seemed to pick on anybody or hurt anyone that wasn't an *******.)

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
After the "coconut" fight, if I was Ippo I'd tell Kamogawa I want to go up to Lightweight, so I can cakewalk to the world. smile

Seriously, it seems like Featherweight has all the monsters. Kimura, he has to contend with Mashiba (And apparently later Sawamura), but who's in Aoki's class? No real monsters.

Just about anyone from Featherweight could steamroll Lightweight in a week.

Hell, Kimura would he viable on that stage! His friendship with Aoki held back his career, I just can't feel bad for Aoki when everyone makes fun of him. Don't know anyone from Lightweight that is anything special besides some random "world ranker" Mashiba beats near the 1100th chapter. But given how much "world class" gets touted at the current stages of the manga, I'd reckon that Morikawa counts any top 5 in the weight class / Champion level boxer as being nigh invincible to anyone whose name isn't Takamura or Martinez. Because when you're on the world stage, you're on "a whole other level" apparently. eek!

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Some random thoughts at this point in the story:

I'm more on board with Vorg now. I don't agree with his "word of god" hyping at the main characters expense, but it's hard not to back someone that lost literally everything, and needs a handout just to find where to go or sleep inside.

The more I see of Mashiba, the more I like him. His concern for his sister is awww. smile

As always, I like Sendou as a character. He's by far one of the more relatable characters, but his appeal is how he's strong, yet a genuinely nice guy. Most strong guys in this manga are either sociopaths (Mashiba) or dicks (Miyata), and Sendou is neither.

Especially when he interacts with Ippo, you can't help but like him. He seems to "get" Ippo, and treats him like a younger brother instead of a hated rival. (I also HATE his grandmother for calling him a thug. Even if he was in a gang, he never seemed to pick on anybody or hurt anyone that wasn't an *******.) What do you think of Itagaki?

cdtm
Seems likeable, but too early to tell. Looking forward to his Rookie King performance.

So far, I think he's mainly meant a contrast of his feud was Miyata, only in reverse.

To be honest, I'd kind of prefer it if he was in his own offshoot series, instead of rolled in with Ippo's baggage.

AuraAngel
Itagaki is...fascinating. There is a certain scene I want to spoil for you but it's pretty clear where they story is going to go with him.

cdtm
Looking forward to it. smile

Brian Hawk, is he white? In the manga he looks black, but the anime is more whitish.. Sure, black and white manga has a limited color scheme, but he was shaded pretty darkly.

cdtm
Takamura/Eagle is brilliant. It's a complete 180 from Hawk, with Takamura essentially becoming a better built Hawk in it (Judging by the Hawk like punch's he threw, and how he stood with open guard just like him, and the uncharacteristic visciousness against his opponent, I almost wonder if the first quarter is a 1:1 crib of an unused Eagle/Hawk script.)

Only thing that keeps me cheering for Takamura is the fact he has to near starve himself just to get a road to a heavyweight someday, so he kind of has every right to hate golden boy from the land of higher weight competition..

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Takamura/Eagle is brilliant. It's a complete 180 from Hawk, with Takamura essentially becoming a better built Hawk in it (Judging by the Hawk like punch's he threw, and how he stood with open guard just like him, and the uncharacteristic visciousness against his opponent, I almost wonder if the first quarter is a 1:1 crib of an unused Eagle/Hawk script.)

Only thing that keeps me cheering for Takamura is the fact he has to near starve himself just to get a road to a heavyweight someday, so he kind of has every right to hate golden boy from the land of higher weight competition..

Takamura vs Eagle was good, however . . . Eagle is the better boxer and Takamura only won due to PIS from the ref. As far as I'm concerned, Eagle won the fight. stick out tongue

cdtm
Oh yeah, the ref's in Ippo are terrible.. They probably moonlight as boxing refs and make their real money calling professional wrestling.. smile


Taka's blind rush is the best part for me. For the look of abject horror on everyone's face.. Ippo especially looked like he walked into Walter White chopping someone into pieces in a plastic tupperware container.

cdtm
Hey, um.. Belts don't change hands on doctor stops, do they?

Takamura aiming for Eagles eye as opposed to the latter's sportsmanship is good drama, but thinking about it he could have cost himself his shot

cdtm
It goes to points.

I guess Takamura should have been ahead in points. Maybe.

Who the hell knows the way they do things. Wouldn't surprise me if the judges are reading hentai instead of watching the match, with some of their decisions.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Hey, um.. Belts don't change hands on doctor stops, do they?

Takamura aiming for Eagles eye as opposed to the latter's sportsmanship is good drama, but thinking about it he could have cost himself his shot They do. A doctor stop would have been a TKO. Any sane ref would have stopped the fight. Throw I. The fact that Takamura had to foul to win and it's pretty clear Eagle is the superior boxer. wink

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
It goes to points.

I guess Takamura should have been ahead in points. Maybe.

Who the hell knows the way they do things. Wouldn't surprise me if the judges are reading hentai instead of watching the match, with some of their decisions. Wait till you see the Vorg world title fight. laughing out loud

cdtm
More then anything, I want to see Takamura tackle the heavier classes.

In real life, heavyweights are damned monsters. thumb up

AuraAngel
To date he has never fought a weight class above Eagle's so better get comfy.

He does get a pretty baller fight though in the form of a title unification bout.

cdtm
Dying from Broccoman.

Takamura's reactions at being upstaged by a clown are priceless.

cdtm
Why is Vorg sitting at world ranked #6 already?

While Ippo, the national champion with six successful title defenses, is only at 12?

That's just crazy.. I don't care how talented Vorg is, you don't drop off the map for a year and suddenly contend for the world overnight.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Why is Vorg sitting at world ranked #6 already?

While Ippo, the national champion with six successful title defenses, is only at 12?

That's just crazy.. I don't care how talented Vorg is, you don't drop off the map for a year and suddenly contend for the world overnight. Because Ippo's trainer and manager are incompetent. By that point, should have dropped the JBC title and started exclusively pursuing higher ranked opponents. By the time Ippo beat Karasawa, he should tossed the JBC title like a bad dream. Then again, I suppose that would mean having to go fight someplace besides Japan. God forbid Ippo or Takamura ever fight in a different country.

cdtm
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Because Ippo's trainer and manager are incompetent. By that point, should have dropped the JBC title and started exclusively pursuing higher ranked opponents

Even so (And I totally agree! smile ), how long was it between Vorgs visit and #6?

Ippo's entire career is only, what, three years by that point? And everyone claimed he just wasn't resting properly after Sawamura (They said something about his latest fight giving only a month to prepare.)

So what did Vorg do? Challenge the world unranked out of the gate, and some high rankers thought it would be cute to cut the boastful nobody down, and whoops he's a Mary Sue, Vorg is now rank 6 in a week? eek!

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Even so (And I totally agree! smile ), how long was it between Vorgs visit and #6?

Ippo's entire career is only, what, three years by that point? And everyone claimed he just wasn't resting properly after Sawamura (They said something about his latest fight giving only a month to prepare.)

So what did Vorg do? Challenge the world unranked out of the gate, and some high rankers thought it would be cute to cut the boastful nobody down, and whoops he's a Mary Sue, Vorg is now rank 6 in a week? eek! Maybe Vorg ran into an Apollo Creed who wanted to give an unknown bum fighter a shot much like in the Rocky 1 movie and ended up biting off more than he could chew. But I agree. Vorg basically has everything handed to him on a silver platter as a result of popularity and Mori retconning his boxing abilities. All this crap about being Date level while outboxing is refuted by Vorg's own statements while fighting Ippo. laughing out loud

And what did you think of Ippo getting beaten by Imai? How pathetic is that! laughing

AuraAngel
Yeah Morikawa does sorta hand wave to keep the rival characters relevant.

That said I could see the higher ranks picking a young talented Russian boxer to beat up for good publicity defending their country.

Sendou is worse though. He's actually ranked 4th in the world. Only explanation we get for it was him going after Mexican Featherweights.

cdtm
Kamogawa on the World "He's not ready!"

Everyone he ever beat becomes top five world.

cdtm
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Maybe Vorg ran into an Apollo Creed who wanted to give an unknown bum fighter a shot much like in the Rocky 1 movie and ended up biting off more than he could chew. But I agree. Vorg basically has everything handed to him on a silver platter as a result of popularity and Mori retconning his boxing abilities. All this crap about being Date level while outboxing is refuted by Vorg's own statements while fighting Ippo. laughing out loud

And what did you think of Ippo getting beaten by Imai? How pathetic is that! laughing

The sparring match?

He totally should have won the Rookie King imo. On points.

How does "Hajime no Imani" sound? smile

AuraAngel
Originally posted by cdtm
Kamogawa on the World "He's not ready!"

Everyone he ever beat becomes top five world.

To be fair Ippo definitely doesn't have the mentality to take on the world.

cdtm
At the point I'm at, you just need to put a challenge in front of him, and he forgets Miyata for awhile.

Speaking of: the ref's must have a pretty crappy benefits package. They all seem completely 100% blind

*Elbow elbow headbutt elbow*

Entire audience: "WTF REF?!"

Aw, who am I kidding, Morikawa is just trolling his audience now. laughing out loud

AuraAngel
That's the problem. Ippo is Kamogawa's well-tuned machine of a boxer but, at least as far as the manga is concerned, that's not good enough for the world.

https://mangastream.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1079/2620/1

It's a bit spoilery but this chapter illustrates why even though Sendo and Vorg lost, they are still better prepared for the world than Ippo...at least in theory.

Dark-Kenshin
Ippo not being "ready for the world" after 1000+ is horrible writing IMO. The Ippo that beat Karasawa is easily world class material. The mentality stuff is just an excuse to drag out a story arc that could have been wrapped up a long time ago.

cdtm
Ippo, I have a feeling Mashiba won't be a problem in your love life for awhile. Not until he gets out of prison for assault and battery, and probably attempted murder. laughing out loud

For what I suspect was a troll on the doubtless flood of fan mail on having them fight each other, Mashiba vs Sawamura was very well done. Everything you'd expect to see, more then you wanted to see, and well done bits you're glad to see. It was memorable, that's for sure.

Personally, I say minus the cheating, Sawamura has Mashiba's number. I mean, Mash NEEDED to cheat, while Saramura did it just because.

cdtm
So as of Sawamura's retirement, Aoki and Kimura claim they're 25? And as of Aoki's first title defense of the series, he's been at it 8 years?

I'm up to issue 600 something, about the halfway mark. At this rate, they're gonna be older then Date by series catch up, unless time starts to slow down and Ippo somehow has 50 title defenses in a year and is only on his fourth year of boxing..

AuraAngel
The fights get longer and unfortunately some chapters are much shorter on average. Ippo crawls like a snail in terms of pacing once you catch up to it.

cdtm
Don't spoil it if it happens, but I have a feeling even Itagaki's new ultra instinct unlock won't be enough to handle Ippo.

He wasn't brave enough to step into the Dempsy Roll, and Ippo has one of the tightest guards out there. He'd simply hide behind peek-a-boo, tank the body shots, and methodically corner him until he was trapped. Then work him over with small, compact punch's.

Dark-Kenshin
Just read the raw for chapter 1202. Drop this manga while you can. I know I am. Am NOT joking. To hell with this series . laughing out loud Onto a new manga!

AuraAngel

Dark-Kenshin
Check your private messages. laughing out loud

AuraAngel

Dark-Kenshin
We'll have to agree to disagree. As a long time reader, I don't really see how the author can salvage this.

At any rate, this post from another forum summarizes my thoughts perfectly.


Someone really needs to ask Mori what the **** he's been thinking the last 5 years. While the series has had its ups and downs, pretty much everything regarding Ippo, Miyata, and Itagaki was part of a consistent, larger plan. Miyata's story stalled out after he defeated RBJ as Mori's only real option was to have him fight for a world title and Mori absolutely doesn't want that to happen for reasons. That was fine as he was a secondary character and would see his story pick back up once Ippo's went forward. (Mori has pretty consistently kept them in step.)

After winning the Class A tournament and receiving the baton pass, Itagaki was set up to win the Japanese Title and then maybe fight Miyata which would have been super interesting in what it would have done with his relationship with Ippo, but then Mori decided to throw the breaks on that and have Itagaki get in trouble with the JBC for sleeping with an official's wife. (If you think Itagaki lost to Imai, you need to lay off the sauce. It never happened)

Ippo was finally going to fight a world ranker and put himself in line for a world title fight. The Kojima and Volg fights were to show him the importance of being a multi-dimensional fighter. But then Mori decided to throw the breaks on that and have Ippo lose in a fight that was the manga equivalent of those filler scenes you see in DBZ when the fighters are punching/kicking repeatedly and the other fighter is responding (either dodging or getting hit) before deciding that Ippo's plot armor wasn't going to carry the day.

What's the plan here? Ippo is broken? We already ****ing knew that and didn't need another fight to show us it. There was a way to tie that into a somewhat reasonable end to the series but that involved Ippo realizing he didn't need to fight anymore and that his health was more important. That option died by having Ippo get back into the ring and lose

cdtm
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
We'll have to agree to disagree. As a long time reader, I don't really see how the author can salvage this.

At any rate, this post from another forum summarizes my thoughts perfectly.


Someone really needs to ask Mori what the **** he's been thinking the last 5 years. While the series has had its ups and downs, pretty much everything regarding Ippo, Miyata, and Itagaki was part of a consistent, larger plan. Miyata's story stalled out after he defeated RBJ as Mori's only real option was to have him fight for a world title and Mori absolutely doesn't want that to happen for reasons. That was fine as he was a secondary character and would see his story pick back up once Ippo's went forward. (Mori has pretty consistently kept them in step.)

After winning the Class A tournament and receiving the baton pass, Itagaki was set up to win the Japanese Title and then maybe fight Miyata which would have been super interesting in what it would have done with his relationship with Ippo, but then Mori decided to throw the breaks on that and have Itagaki get in trouble with the JBC for sleeping with an official's wife. (If you think Itagaki lost to Imai, you need to lay off the sauce. It never happened)

Ippo was finally going to fight a world ranker and put himself in line for a world title fight. The Kojima and Volg fights were to show him the importance of being a multi-dimensional fighter. But then Mori decided to throw the breaks on that and have Ippo lose in a fight that was the manga equivalent of those filler scenes you see in DBZ when the fighters are punching/kicking repeatedly and the other fighter is responding (either dodging or getting hit) before deciding that Ippo's plot armor wasn't going to carry the day.

What's the plan here? Ippo is broken? We already ****ing knew that and didn't need another fight to show us it. There was a way to tie that into a somewhat reasonable end to the series but that involved Ippo realizing he didn't need to fight anymore and that his health was more important. That option died by having Ippo get back into the ring and lose



Itagaki did what???

And which Imai fight? I thought he probably should have won their first pro match, on the basis he was pretty much a gentle breeze away from finishing him. Points wise, he lost the first half, and took the second half.. The judges seemed to think it was very close.

Of course, the judges also somehow thought a single down by Sendou makes up for Vorgs clear dominance..

cdtm
Mashiba "beat" Ippo.

Considering every single hard match Ippo's been in has him struggling early, and out on his feet at some point, it's no wonder he sucks at spars. Ippo's a comeback boxer, short spars don't showcase his strong points too well.

cdtm
Sendou vs Takamura 2 has my vote for best spar of the series. laughing out loud


Seeing Miyata taken down a peg was fun, even with all the excuses (Weight management, not using his legs..)

Looks like we won't see Mashiba knocked off the list. Wanted to see that one, just for the clash of attitudes (Plus the fact Sendou is kind of Saramura's friend, and Mashiba indirectly ended his career..)

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