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Beni is wrong.

Vader solos.

Kyp and Corran

Kyo solos, obviously.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kyp solos.
Reasons?

Kyp and Corran win. Kyp is arguably the most powerful jedi in the force NJO+, and Corran is arguably the best duelist of the era, perhaps behind only Luke and Jaina.

Kyp isn't the first or second most powerful Jedi in the NJO, and Corran's dueling prowess means nothing in this fight. Team 2 wins.

I can understood not being first, but not even second? Besides Jacen, who shouldn't really count, I struggle to think of anybody who compares.

Yeah, I genuinely can't see anyone short of Luke or Palpatine pulling off that black hole feat. Kyp intentionally holds himself back but other than that I don't see any reason to rank him as low as most people here do. I mean, Luke holds himself back to a ridiculous extent quote often but most rank him at #1 or #2 overall most powerful Force user regardless.

Kyp... actually did the same thing.

Originally posted by MythLord
Kyp... actually did the same thing.

What thing?

The black hole feat.

I think Az was referring to Kyp when he mentioned the Dovin Basal feat.

Originally posted by MythLord
The black hole feat.

Yes, I was referring to that, obviously. I guess I should've inluded "other than Kyp" in my sentence.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Vader solos.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Kyp isn't the first or second most powerful Jedi in the NJO, and Corran's dueling prowess means nothing in this fight. Team 2 wins.

I didn't catch that this was force only, so I give you the dueling point.

I said he is arguably the most powerful jedi, and that is very true. In raw power it's likely only Luke surpasses him. Caedus probably surpassed him in force power too, but Jacen didn't; Caedus isn't a jedi though. Jaina did not become more powerful in the force than Kyp, though Anakin Solo would likely have, had he not died so young.

It would be interesting to see Corran redirect Vader's force lightening back at them.

Vader doesn't really use Force Lightning, so it's a moot point.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I can understood not being first, but not even second? Besides Jacen, who shouldn't really count, I struggle to think of anybody who compares.

Luke and Jacen are the top two, yeah. Kyp is probably third if you're talking about force power specifically, but overall he's behind at least Jaina too.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Vader doesn't really use Force Lightning, so it's a moot point.

Touche.


Originally posted by NewGuy01

Luke and Jacen are the top two, yeah. Kyp is probably third if you're talking about force power specifically, but overall he's behind at least Jaina too.

Luke > Caedus > Kyp > Jacen.
Kyp is #2 jedi in NJO, as far as force power goes.

...Nah. From Dark Nest onward, it's not-so-subtly suggested Jacen's in his own league, something that hasn't even been hinted about Kyp since his academy days. I think Ant mentioned it being stated in early LOTF that Jacen and Luke were the top two in the Order, but seeing how his respect thread is two years late and counting, I can't say for sure.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
...Nah. From Dark Nest onward, it's not-so-subtly suggested Jacen's in his own league, something that hasn't even been hinted about Kyp since his academy days. I think Ant mentioned it being stated in early LOTF that Jacen and Luke were the top two in the Order, but seeing how his respect thread is two years late and counting, I can't say for sure.

It's true that overall Jacen and Luke were the top, but Jacen had the edge on Kyp there because he was the superior duelist. Jacen had more esoteric force knowledge and technique as well, but I dont think he outclassed Kyp in raw force power alone, or at least I don't recall him having the feats suggesting so. It's been a while since I read LOTF.

Well, I'd contend that he probably rivals Kyp in raw power simply by virtue of being a Skywalker, but let's put that aside.

Even if Kyp's naturally stronger in the Force than Jacen, he's plagued with mental handicaps--more than any other character that comes to mind--and even admits that he couldn't replicate his feats as a teenager under normal circumstances, despite becoming a Jedi Master. On top of that, in every appearance he's been in since Jedi Academy, he's not once been a key figure in any relevant story, and has almost never stood out as particularly exceptional among his fellow masters. He's the exact opposite of Jacen, who was a key player in basically every conflict throughout his entire career, was constantly paraded as being the most amazeballs Jedi ever by his enemies and peers from late NJO onward, and was constantly exploring ways to expand his powers through years of experimentation with alternative force-using institutions after the Vong war.

Then after all of that he gets reduced to a Sith laughingstock by Krayt and co.

Oh EU, you beautifully nonsensical mess.

Quotes for Jacen > Kyp?

It doesn't exist, sans the one where he says he's second only to Luke in the galaxy - which is about as credible as Kyp saying he was the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Then after all of that he gets reduced to a Sith laughingstock by Krayt and co.


I beg you to justify this statement here...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, I'd contend that he probably rivals Kyp in raw power simply by virtue of being a Skywalker, but let's put that aside.
You could say that, but there are people in that lineage that both support and oppose that claim, so it's best not brought up.

Originally posted by NewGuy01



Even if Kyp's naturally stronger in the Force than Jacen, he's plagued with mental handicaps--more than any other character that comes to mind--and even admits that he couldn't replicate his feats as a teenager under normal circumstances, despite becoming a Jedi Master. On top of that, in every appearance he's been in since Jedi Academy, he's not once been a key figure in any relevant story, and has almost never stood out as particularly exceptional among his fellow masters. He's the exact opposite of Jacen, who was a key player in basically every conflict throughout his entire career, was constantly paraded as being the most amazeballs Jedi ever by his enemies and peers from late NJO onward, and was constantly exploring ways to expand his powers through years of experimentation with alternative force-using institutions after the Vong war.

Kyp led his own squadron during NJO, as he rebelled from Luke's direction. Jaina even joined Kyp, iirc. Kyp manipulated a dovin basal, a feat that only Luke also claims. Sure, Katarn, Mara, Corran are all notable, but none close to his power. Kenth Hamner was appointed Grandmaster in Luke's absence, but Kenth is not nearly as notable as Kyp.

Kyp most certainly stands out among the NJO masters, as there is nobody else even close to rivaling his force power, except Luke. Kyp Durron is the Mace Windu of his era, except he has incredible force power instead of dueling skill.

Jacen is a more central figure due to being a Solo, and that is a fact; this does not equate to him being more powerful. As far as story relevance goes, the Skywalkers/Solo's are the A list, and almost everyone else is B list or lower. Jacen had his own mental failings, and was a 2nd rate Anakin Solo.

kyp takes this for team 2.

For once, Ant's lowballing isn't needed for vader to lose here

Originally posted by Kjam
I beg you to justify this statement here... Krayt gave him bad dreams.

Vorpal Ruin doing some good work in this thread.

I love it.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Vorpal Ruin doing some good work in this thread.

I love it.

Thanks! I started reading SWEU at NJO, so I'm quite familiar with NJO+, whereas most people here hate NJO but have never read them, so they just listen to other people's opinion. Unfortunately all my SW novels are in storage, which makes finding quotes...not an option for me right now.

Something Newguy said makes me think he never read the source material. I typically don't comment on characters i'm not incredibly familiar with, but to each their own.

Yeah, nice posts Ruin.

For quotes, you can llook at this Respect Thread: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/radioactivehaggis/blog/star-wars-legends-kyp-durron-respect-thread/131657/

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Krayt gave him bad dreams.

He gave Luke bad dreams too. Dude's the baws.

Originally posted by MythLord
Kyp... actually did the same thing. I'm pretty sure kyp only manipulated 1, while Luke manipulated 2 at the same time by pulling them apart then slamming them back together.

Still impressive by kyp. Also iirc Luke passed out from exhaustion right after while kyp was just barely able to stay conscious.

Kyp's feat was better and featured a far bigger black hole.

You're a fake ass mother****er.

Having re read it, it appears Luke manipulated a single void being created and controlled by multiple dovin basals, and not manipulating multiple voids.

Also Luke's feat seems to have been done by simply overpowering the basals and the void-

"immeditaly the dovin basals started to shift the void to cover this new attack vector. Luke fed the force into his hold on the void, thwarting them. Their pressure increased, and still Luke held it unmoving. "

While kyps seems to have been done more thru control/finesse, finding the exact right amount of force to use, rather than just overpowering it. -

" And he seized upon that void, directing all his force abilities and discipline against it.
It was like using a thin metal rod to push a grounded landspeeder. Too much pressure and it would bend, becoming useless. Too little and nothing would happen. He had to find the right pressure to budge it, to set it into motion and keep it going that way. "

Mr Fantastic called, and he wants his arm back for all that reaching you're doing.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He gave Luke bad dreams too. Dude's the baws.

To be fair, Caedus also gave Luke bad dreams. And so did Exar Kun and Darth Sidious... Everybody gives Luke bad dreams, apparently.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He gave Luke bad dreams too. Dude's the baws. Yes, very scawy.

Originally posted by MythLord
To be fair, Caedus also gave Luke bad dreams.

No. Luke thought Caedus was giving him bad dreams, only to realize it was Krayt all along.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
No. Luke thought Caedus was giving him bad dreams, only to realize it was Krayt all along.

Nah, it was revealed to be Jacen in the very same novel; and it wouldn't make sense in the context of the novel for that to be Krayt.

Siiiiigh... You're actually going to make me look for this. Alright, one second... Anddd here you go:

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Mr Fantastic called, and he wants his arm back for all that reaching you're doing. u tell that little ***** Fantastic that if he wants his arm back he can call me like a man instead of going thru u.

Anywho, if u have a different interpretation of the text I'm all ears.

Originally posted by Kjam
I beg you to justify this statement here...

1.They literally trolled him with a worthless holocron because they weren't impressed, they merely used him to draw the attention of the Jedi away from themselves.

2.Jacen sees what Krayt would have become if he didn't do something, which terrified him and he goes on to tell Luke and Ben how shit scared they should be.

3.Luke himself, whilst not the most credible source, had Krayt as his equal in the balance of the Force. Whilst not exactly a statement of genuine parity, one must keep in mind that Luke has absolutely no illusions about his ability to kick Caedus' sh!t in, if not for the threat of dark side corruption.

The implications for Krayt > Caedus are very strong, though they are not concrete.

Corran is a weak link here.

Ahsoka doesn't use lightning or anything like that, and she could just tool him with telekinesis. Composite Vader is enough to hold off Kyp or beat him

Originally posted by carthage
Corran is a weak link here.

Ahsoka doesn't use lightning or anything like that, and she could just tool him with telekinesis.

I don't think this is completely true. Corran uses energy to redirect it as he wishes. Telekinesis has energy. Kyp used it against Corran once and Corran was quickly working to turn it into his advantage, iirc.

Yeah, he did. That was a bit of a bizarre outlier though.

was there context?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
was there context?

It was when Luke was exiled, and the remaining Masters were arguing over what to do about...Dahlia, I believe. Tensions got high and there was a small fight between Corran, Kyp and I think Kenth in a hangar.

I don't think it's an outlier; Corran just wasn't highlighted a lot, or his unique ability wasn't. What I said about his ability redirecting energy and telekinesis being energy is true. If there was no energy, it wouldn't move anything.

In the Jedi Academy trilogy Corran redirected heat from a spring that would have otherwise killed all the future masters, including Kyp and Luke.

In the corran/kyp/kenth situation corran and kyp were arguing and kyp suprise attacked him, then kenth did it to kyp in return. Both were suprise attacks and werent being defended against.

"He flicked his wrist, and Corran went sailing across the hangar back toward Kenth and the other Jedi. It was a particularly insulting dismissal, since Corran could not respond in kind, having never been able to master the skill of Force telekinesis.

The same was not true of Kenth Hamner. He extended his arm, and Kyp flew back against the hull of his StealthX and remained there, pinned."

kyp also attacked corran when they were both students at the academy, and corran was able to absorb a powerful attack from kyp and turn it into a shield.

"Kyp struck at me again through the Force, but I expected it this time. I relaxed and let the Force energy flow over and through me. I absorbed enough of it to let me create a shield that split the attack. The fact that I didn't end up being ground back against the wall surprised him."

"Even though I braced myself for another attack, it did no good. Kyp's previous Force blows were like light breezes compared with a full-out gale. I slammed back into the wall with a teeth-rattling impact. As my body absorbed Force energy and fed it back out, the shield I'd created grew in size. More importantly, my surprise and survival instinct opened me up to the Force and allowed it to flow into the shield."

But when kun started to help kyp he was able to over powre corran.

"I hesitated because kyps words seemed to echo within themselves. It took me a second or two to figure out that the echo wasn't a purely auditory phenomenon. I was hearing kyps voice through my ears, but the undertones were coming to me through the force. We were not alone, which meant kyps mentor had come to aid his apprentice.

This is probably his best absorbtion feat, from early in his training. Hes in a large warehouse wired with the following-

"i was looking at merr-sonn munitions lx-1 laser flechette mines all poimted in my direction. when detonated, the panels would abosorb the energy from the explosives and the laser diodes would spray out clouds of laser bolts. To complicate matters, the mine usually had a three meter backblast of pure explosive fire, which would feed into the chemical drums Id passed on my way in. That would trigger subsidiary explosions that would make quiet a mess" "I glanced up above the spotlight, and caught the blinking of another LX-1."

"I sank within myself, touched the force, started it flowing, and sucked in every stray erg being sprayed on my direction. I felt sting after sting, as if I were sliding through a sarlaccs gullet, and it felt as if I were desending into a black pit of pain. I directed some of the force to help me blunt the pain, but that made it much more difficult to hold onto all of the power I was absorbing.


I knew I couldn't hang onto it for long, and I knew I needed to use it to contain the explosions deadly force. As I had done in the grotto to save Tionne, I channeled all of it into telekinesis and raised my left hand. I twisted my wrist, stareted the energy swirling into a votrtex. I could feel the air begin to whirl around me, tighting, quicking flames from the chemical fires leapted toward the center of the room, spinning themselves into the vortex. Loose debris, flaming bits of duraplaste and rattling, clattering pieces of strap metal flew into air, filling the fiery cyclone with dark specks.

I pushed and drove the vortex up and out thru the roof, enlarging the hole the last mine had aready opened. chemical drums sailed up, exploding as they went, pulsing green and purple fire thru the rising funnel. flames wreathed me and i sucked their heat in, then vented it back out, building the firestorms strength until it ripped the warehouses roof off and crumpled it like a discarded piece of flimiplast.

the warehouses doors banged open, then ripped free and flew like sabacc cards into the maelstrom. the warehouses viewports imploded as air rushed in to feed the firestorm. i no longer needed to push, it had become a thing of its own, almost living, certainly beathing. i felt it tug at me, but the energy it fed me kept me rooted in place. i reached ou with my mind, pitching up into the column of fire the last several unexploded chemical drums, watched them blossom briliantly, then smiled. the explosion had been contained, drwwn inward. hough the warehouses corrugated metal walls glowed dully from the heat, they had not buckled. the tremors, from the explosion had rippled out thru the ground, but beyond that- and the fiery spear thrust into the sky- only the warehouse would be damaged by the hutts deathtrap."

i dont feel like finding the quote for this one, but he also absorbed all the heat from a geyser erupting to protect tionne from it and then used the energy he absorbed to lift her out with tk. iirc

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
It was when Luke was exiled, and the remaining Masters were arguing over what to do about...Dahlia, I believe. Tensions got high and there was a small fight between Corran, Kyp and I think Kenth in a hangar.

No, I'm sure it was either in Dark Apprentice or I, Jedi.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
No, I'm sure it was either in Dark Apprentice or I, Jedi.

Corran and Kyp have had more than one scuffle. When Kenth was involved, it was LOTF or FOTJ when they were all masters.

Thanks for the passage, Raptor.

...right, but in only one of them did he pull off the feat you alluded to.

Yep. He can make use of TK energy as well.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Thanks for the passage, Raptor.

U'r welcome