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Which character is the biggest and most blatant ripoff than all the others?

Consider origin story, overall powers, appearance, etc.

Here are some candidates (but not limited to these):

Gladiator
Hyperion
Metroman
Sentry
Blue Marvel

Sentry

Hyperion

Yeah, prob Hype.

Hype, followed by Glads

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, prob Hype.

The one called 'Kallark,' which I believe is Strontian for Clark. I'd also be interested in exactly what type of radiation it is that he's vulnerable to.

Hyperion

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Hyperion

Don't forget Supreme and Majestic. Hell Maj literally looks like a clone of Clark.

Superboy.

Hyperion

Sun God.

Ethan Edwards.

I mean, Gladiator even has the female cousin thing going. And his own version of Legion of Superheros.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sun God. forgot about him. Even better than hype.

Sun God was for all intentions and purposes Superman.

Gladiator is a close second, although the "S" on Sentry doesn't help.

Sentry is NOT a superman clone.


Hyperion is the closest

Hyperion's background is Superman, but his attitude is closer to Thor's. Warrior instead of boy scout.

Sun God is the complete package.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Sentry is NOT a superman clone.


Hyperion is the closest
yeah... sure he's not

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Sentry is NOT a superman clone.

^^^

Gladiator. Blatantly so.

This is easily Gladiator.

1. Gladiator's name, Kallark, is a combination of Superman's Kryptonian and human names: Kal-El and Clark Kent.

2. Alien with Superman powerset, weak to a specific form of radiation ala kryptonite.

3. Has a female cousin Xenith ala Supergirl, has a male son Kid Gladiator ala superboy

4. Has a team the Imperial Guard similar to young Superman's team when he was part of Legion of Super-Heroes

You guys are all haters I have never seen a more original and unique character than Gladiator.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sun God.


http://i.imgur.com/YovKh9L.jpg

One homage drawing doesnt make him the winner here, but thats a keeper!

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/77/118903-28557-homage-covers.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/55074/1161669-crisis_on_infinite_7.jpg

5. Red capes, red, blue, and gold costume

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/35452960_5281995-9k3D.jpg

He's literally called Kallark = Kal-El + Clark.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Sentry is NOT a superman clone.


Hyperion is the closest
Yes he is. Utterly and completely.

Blue Marvel is not.

Originally posted by panthergod
Yes he is. Utterly and completely.

Based on what exactly? Definately not comics. Sentry was a drug addict with personality disorders who has an ill defined powerset.

Clark is a boyscout alien from another world.

Sentry = Terrified of his powers
Clark = Always under control

Sentry if anything is based off Miracle Man...not Superman

Originally posted by spetznaz
The one called 'Kallark,' which I believe is Strontian for Clark. I'd also be interested in exactly what type of radiation it is that he's vulnerable to.
I believe that stromium radiation is what it's called.

And I think Hyperion is vulnerable to something called argonite radiation.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Based on what exactly? Definately not comics. Sentry was a drug addict with personality disorders who has an ill defined powerset.

Clark is a boyscout alien from another world.

Sentry = Terrified of his powers
Clark = Always under control

Sentry if anything is based off Miracle Man...not Superman
Yeah but Supes is scared of his powers too when you get right down to it, that's why he developed the mental blocks.

Sentry is totally a Superman clone. There's differences to be sure, but theres a lot of similarities too. Kal was completely the inspiration for the character.

From many uses of his power, posture, costume, even many of his character story points were just extrapolated or altered versions of Superman plots. He married a double L that happens in all the Supes characters names. His wife is Lindy Lee, as opposed to Lois Lane or Lana Lang, or Lex Luthor, etc.

Golden Guardian/of Good vs Big Blue or Metropolis Marvel

^^^Wrong.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Based on what exactly? Definately not comics. Sentry was a drug addict with personality disorders who has an ill defined powerset.

Clark is a boyscout alien from another world.

Sentry = Terrified of his powers
Clark = Always under control

Sentry if anything is based off Miracle Man...not Superman
^^^Right.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Based on what exactly? Definately not comics. Sentry was a drug addict with personality disorders who has an ill defined powerset.

Clark is a boyscout alien from another world.

Sentry = Terrified of his powers
Clark = Always under control

Sentry if anything is based off Miracle Man...not Superman
Read Red Glass. The basis of the post Byrne Post Crisis Superman s personality and subconscious mindset culminating in DoS( and later reemphasized in the Loeb/Berganza era with No Limits-OWAW) was that he his worst fear was losing control and going insane with acces to his full power--which would give him casual top tier killing power.

Sentry is a Superman subplot. Nothing more.

Oh and Superman has the original ill defined power set. Always has. And still does. Superman s concept is : "peak of human evolutionary potential". Not just strongman, though that's his primary power set.

Yep, and it started even before Red Glass.

He kicked himself for merely accidentially breaking a hoods jaw. One of Luthor's big plots was to bathe him in solar energy by satelite and make his powers go out of control.

Eradicator's influence manifested in him simply beating up crooks slightly easier then Batman would.

Hulk.

Originally posted by panthergod

Sentry is a Superman subplot. Nothing more.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but Supes is scared of his powers too when you get right down to it, that's why he developed the mental blocks.

Apples and oranges. Supermans fear is based on his world of cardboard viewpoint. Hes a normal guy with extraordinary power who doesnt want to hurt anyone UNLESS he has to. But when he has to he will. He is by all means not a pussy. Or mentally incapable. Whereas Sentry has been mentally unable to act or simply wiped away his existentence so he wouldnt have to act.

Huge difference

Originally posted by Juntai
Sentry is totally a Superman clone. There's differences to be sure, but theres a lot of similarities too. Kal was completely the inspiration for the character.

From many uses of his power, posture, costume, even many of his character story points were just extrapolated or altered versions of Superman plots. He married a double L that happens in all the Supes characters names. His wife is Lindy Lee, as opposed to Lois Lane or Lana Lang, or Lex Luthor, etc.

Golden Guardian/of Good vs Big Blue or Metropolis Marvel

No he is not.

Youre too focused on the superficial aspects (s symbol, tights, flying brick bs) and not the character. Senty/Void is an homage to Miracle Man/Kid Miracleman. They are both middle aged fat blond guys. Both have/had sidekicks. Their stories start out the exact same way. Sentry performs "miracles" . MM performs miracles. Both have fights that leave millions dead...etc

Not A Superman clone

To be fair, in one of the scripts Bendis literally says "Marvel has its Superman". Take it as you will, but there was at least some intent by some writers.

I cant see it. They have absolutely no similarities outside of being flying bricks. Its a lazy comparison imo

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I cant see it. They have absolutely no similarities outside of being flying bricks. Its a lazy comparison imo

You may be right, but it's a comparison that at least some people in Marvel wanted to foster.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Apples and oranges. Supermans fear is based on his world of cardboard viewpoint. Hes a normal guy with extraordinary power who doesnt want to hurt anyone UNLESS he has to. But when he has to he will. He is by all means not a pussy. Or mentally incapable. Whereas Sentry has been mentally unable to act or simply wiped away his existentence so he wouldnt have to act.

Huge difference



No he is not.

Youre too focused on the superficial aspects (s symbol, tights, flying brick bs) and not the character. Senty/Void is an homage to Miracle Man/Kid Miracleman. They are both middle aged fat blond guys. Both have/had sidekicks. Their stories start out the exact same way. Sentry performs "miracles" . MM performs miracles. Both have fights that leave millions dead...etc

Not A Superman clone

Pssst... Miracleman is a 3rd generation Superman analog by way Captain Marvel as well.

Again: he's Superman with a twist.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I cant see it. They have absolutely no similarities outside of being flying bricks. Its a lazy comparison imo
You don't read Superman comics, clearly. And that's okay.

Those of us who are familiar with both characters know he's a Superman subplot.

Hell, ever see Superman 3 and 4? A split personality with good and dark sides fighting internally? Senrys design=Nuclear Man.

He's a combo of various Superman subplots with references to another 3rd gen Superman analogue.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I cant see it. They have absolutely no similarities outside of being flying bricks. Its a lazy comparison imo
It is.
Even on Marvel's part.

Originally posted by panthergod
Pssst... Miracleman is a 3rd generation Superman analog by way Captain Marvel as well.

Again: he's Superman with a twist.

Superman is the trope identifier, analogue yes..ripoff no

Originally posted by panthergod
You don't read Superman comics, clearly. And that's okay.

Those of us who are familiar with both characters know he's a Superman subplot.

Hell, ever see Superman 3 and 4? A split personality with good and dark sides fighting internally? Senrys design=Nuclear Man.

He's a combo of various Superman subplots with references to another 3rd gen Superman analogue.

If i didnt know the characters story i wouldnt comment. Im not going to make a baseless claim

Superman 3 or 4 arent comics not sure y that was mentioned. Try harder


Which subplots enlighten me?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Superman is the trope identifier, analogue yes..ripoff no



If i didnt know the characters story i wouldnt comment. Im not going to make a baseless claim

Superman 3 or 4 arent comics not sure y that was mentioned. Try harder


Which subplots enlighten me?
So Superman 3 and 4 are not Superman stories now? Ok. Nice deflection though. They are Superman stories that were distributed. far beyond the readership of comics. Superman influence isn't limited to comics. Hasn't been since the 40s.

You specifically stated Sentry is not similar to Superman based on traits specifically grounded in Superman s mythos including mass media and comic book subplots spanning decades in some cases. Ill defined power set is a concept Superman brought to the genre he started. Siegel gave him telepathy shapeshifting electromagnetic powers etc. His concept is peak of human evolution including esoteric abilities going to the Golden Age. Horror at losing control and going insane/corrupted with power? The after math of the Byrne run and mental breakdown going into Exile, Red Glass, Blaze/Satannus War where first encounters Kismet and sees a future where he overcomes his humanized attatchments, Krypton Man arc , and before that Parasites Power Prism arc the Bronze Age. Before that the original King Superman story in the Silver Age.

Those of us who know the character see Sentry for what he is and always been: a Superman subplot with a twist.

1. Hyperion.
2. Majestic.
3. Sun God.

Hugo Danner

Son Goku.

Originally posted by panthergod
So Superman 3 and 4 are not Superman stories now? Ok. Nice deflection though. They are Superman stories that were distributed. far beyond the readership of comics. Superman influence isn't limited to comics. Hasn't been since the 40s.

You specifically stated Sentry is not similar to Superman based on traits specifically grounded in Superman s mythos including mass media and comic book subplots spanning decades in some cases. Ill defined power set is a concept Superman brought to the genre he started. Siegel gave him telepathy shapeshifting electromagnetic powers etc. His concept is peak of human evolution including esoteric abilities going to the Golden Age. Horror at losing control and going insane/corrupted with power? The after math of the Byrne run and mental breakdown going into Exile, Red Glass, Blaze/Satannus War where first encounters Kismet and sees a future where he overcomes his humanized attatchments, Krypton Man arc , and before that Parasites Power Prism arc the Bronze Age. Before that the original King Superman story in the Silver Age.

Those of us who know the character see Sentry for what he is and always been: a Superman subplot with a twist.


Again with the Superman 3/4. Quit reaching. Im aware of his influence i dont require a history lesson. Moving on...

Ive already stated he was an analogue. Not a ripoff. Everything else is an half assed attempt at relating the two using irrelevant evidence. Character conception and execution are wildly different scenarios. Agree to disagree

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^

Gladiator. Blatantly so.
Originally posted by Bentley
Hulk.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Son Goku.

Carver must like this Superman character quite a bit.

This character was the last survivor of a dying planet, whose parents sent him away just before it exploded.

Said planet had incredible gravity, which gave him super strength etc.

He crash landed on Earth, where he was adopted by a kindly old man who taught him morals.

Later on,he uses his incredible powers for good, but always holds back for fear of hurting his opponents.

He's affected by radiation of a certain wavelength, which can give him extra powers.

Who is it?

Hint: he's from anime.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Again with the Superman 3/4. Quit reaching. Im aware of his influence i dont require a history lesson. Moving on...

Ive already stated he was an analogue. Not a ripoff. Everything else is an half assed attempt at relating the two using irrelevant evidence. Character conception and execution are wildly different scenarios. Agree to disagree
Its not a reach, its just a point you can't honestly deny. The Reeve Superman movies-- stories about Superman with Superman themes are among THE biggest influences that the character had over Paul Jenkins generation. You mentioned Sentrys appearance as a reason he isn't a ripoff and you didn't know Sentry very much resembles a prominently shown via global mass media literal Superman clone ,Nuclear Man.

He's a ripoffas much as virtually any character who isn't simply a parody can't be, yes. His concept is a long standing superman theme and prominent reoccurring subplot both Pre- Crisis and Post Crisis versions. he's Superman with a twist. The fact that you aren't knowledgable enough about Superman to judge whether a character who reflects themes and concepts the character had been dealing with for decades including in his most popular and well known incarnations is a blatant rip off past "being a flying brick", as you stated, is duly noted, though.

Originally posted by panthergod


You specifically stated Sentry is not similar to Superman based on traits specifically grounded in Superman s mythos including mass media and comic book subplots spanning decades in some cases.

Most of his plot and most of his traits are relative directly to Superman.

Even his whole can't save everyone, even though he can hear and see it all, and have to choose who lives and dies has been a Superman plot before, which was one of Sentry's early plots.

Then his concern over control of his power has been the subject of many Superman plots, as discussed here.

As said, his costume, his stature, his posture, his nicknames, his S symbol, the alliterations of names that surround him including his own but especially the LL that Clark surrounds himself with is the same, etc.


Almost everything about him top to bottom is Superman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This character was the last survivor of a dying planet, whose parents sent him away just before it exploded.

Said planet had incredible gravity, which gave him super strength etc.

He crash landed on Earth, where he was adopted by a kindly old man who taught him morals.

Later on,he uses his incredible powers for good, but always holds back for fear of hurting his opponents.

He's affected by radiation of a certain wavelength, which can give him extra powers.

Who is it?

Hint: he's from anime.

I'm no weebo, you have to help me here

The answer is......drum roll please....

Son Goku!!!

From Cowboy Bebop?

No,Naruto.

Sentry was stated by the creators to be a Superman clone, at least in the beginning, he also has a Superdog called Watchog but in my opinion he evolved to the point where he is so far from Superman that Hype and Glads are much closer. Sun God is however a 1 to 1 copy.

He also has a Kelex clone, no?

I have another question. Is it so horrible to be a Superman homage (clone or ripoff sounds too hard). I think it's a compliment as Superman is the first Superhero and the beginning of it all he should be already public domain (phuck those lobbyists).

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I have another question. Is it so horrible to be a Superman homage (clone or ripoff sounds too hard). I think it's a compliment as Superman is the first Superhero and the beginning of it all he should be already public domain (phuck those lobbyists).

Its the word "ripoff" its demeaning. Homage and analogue are fine. Ripoff suggests parody or copyright infringement. Batman is based off the Shadow, Zorrow, Shelock etc for example yet noone calls him a rip off. Even Clark isnt a wholly original concept.

Since Sun God was raised as a SM analogue, his fight with the Hulk was quite interesting (and with the expected conclusion) .....

But getting back to the main point, there are several SM analogues. Some closer than others.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Its the word "ripoff" its demeaning. Homage and analogue are fine. Ripoff suggests parody or copyright infringement. Batman is based off the Shadow, Zorrow, Shelock etc for example yet noone calls him a rip off. Even Clark isnt a wholly original concept.
Clark is a 'ripoff' of Noah Wylie's Gladiator.

Originally posted by riv6672
Clark is a 'ripoff' of Noah Wylie's Gladiator.

👍.

It's a fair assessment.

As long as you don't hold double standards like saying that Superman is a rip off of Wylie's Gladiator while arguing Sentry isn't a Superman rip off I don't see any problem with that logic.

Originally posted by Bentley
It's a fair assessment.

As long as you don't hold double standards like saying that Superman is a rip off of Wylie's Gladiator while arguing Sentry isn't a Superman rip off I don't see any problem with that logic.

No i dont.. hes as far removed from Gladiator as Sentry is from him. I just dont like the term especially when " ripoffs" evolve into their own unique character, deadpool is a prime example. Original parody now his own man whos more popular to boot.

Originally posted by Galan007



http://i.imgur.com/YovKh9L.jpg


Damn that's pretty awesome.

Why would anyone expect Sin I Am o give a knowledgeable response about ANYTHING comics related?

Of course Superman is inspired too, though not so much from Gladiator, rather from Hercules, Samson and Moses. There is also a huge difference being inspired by something, like batman by shadow, zorro, sherlock holmes and being a homage or copy of something, just saing.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Why would anyone expect Sin I Am o give a knowledgeable response about ANYTHING comics related?

I'd say she knows more than you at least.

^^^I'd second that.

Sun God is probably the closest, based on how easily he dispatched the Hulk.

Originally posted by Magnon
Sun God is probably the closest, based on how easily he dispatched the Hulk.

So Hulk would physically overpower Superman?

Superman Clone that would be Shazam/Captain Marvel...oh. Wait!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Why would anyone expect Sin I Am o give a knowledgeable response about ANYTHING comics related?

Hmmmm

https://68.media.tumblr.com/40e9b95c2a8a521d37e09de08ec46b45/tumblr_oskj01iAhj1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/734a991ccda97fc1e79a5f6774fa25dd/tumblr_oskizo7abU1wrmisbo1_400.jpg


.......


https://68.media.tumblr.com/686bc602ad067cffcc2fd414748deb75/tumblr_oski72KYTU1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/7082d046f431f2404f4b1dba8150b84e/tumblr_oski6lrkHo1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

.......


https://68.media.tumblr.com/6d37a602f7bcab8119d4454a226d3398/tumblr_oskiv1jigu1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/5e80c0db4bf534fdbb631580755dd4e0/tumblr_oskivhTm5I1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

......

https://68.media.tumblr.com/f36bfb658be5d86483ad9c72bb2a1479/tumblr_oskiuq1gPt1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/d02500889d8dc3fe901f3d83e2ebc67a/tumblr_oskiugjUOB1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

Theres also the London massacre/Voids Manhattan massacre. Kid Miracle Man manipulating Johnny/ Void manipulating Robert. Both are middleaged overweight, blond, impotent husbands in nonpowered forms. Both got plot amnesia, aged and suddenly remembered everything. Both good side antagonist aspects begged for death after recoiling at the horror they caused.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/a222a057c35600210bcfe3297bda171c/tumblr_oskiruwnQw1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/f3a43d784db81fb050f5997d5f4e541f/tumblr_oskir9qo7a1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

Etc etc...but yea hes a superman ripoff cuz hes like strong n can fly n shit.

^Sin, he is a Superman homage because the creator had Superman in Mind while creating him. Miracle Man is also a homage to CM who is a Superman-clone, or someone who was created to be like Superman. But I wouldn't say these days that he is a ripp off, rather he is influenced by chars like Superman, MM and such.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
^Sin, he is a Superman homage because the creator had Superman in Mind while creating him. Miracle Man is also a homage to CM who is a Superman-clone, or someone who was created to be like Superman. But I wouldn't say these days that he is a ripp off, rather he is influenced by chars like Superman, MM and such.

Who said that?

Everything else u said i had already agreed on

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
^Sin, he is a Superman homage because the creator had Superman in Mind while creating him. Miracle Man is also a homage to CM who is a Superman-clone, or someone who was created to be like Superman. But I wouldn't say these days that he is a ripp off, rather he is influenced by chars like Superman, MM and such.
And yet Superman changed to keep up with Cap, go figure.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Who said that?

Everything else u said i had already agreed on

I read once an interview where his creator stated that he had Superman in mind or he wanted to make Marvels Superman or something like this. Can't remember the page and my memory is quite vague about what he exactly said. There are so many things that happen over the years and so much new info, that I seem to forget things like this. I can't even remember the names of most of my classmates when i see their pics xD. I still remember the important things so it can't be that bad...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Hmmmm

https://68.media.tumblr.com/40e9b95c2a8a521d37e09de08ec46b45/tumblr_oskj01iAhj1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/734a991ccda97fc1e79a5f6774fa25dd/tumblr_oskizo7abU1wrmisbo1_400.jpg


.......


https://68.media.tumblr.com/686bc602ad067cffcc2fd414748deb75/tumblr_oski72KYTU1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/7082d046f431f2404f4b1dba8150b84e/tumblr_oski6lrkHo1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

.......


https://68.media.tumblr.com/6d37a602f7bcab8119d4454a226d3398/tumblr_oskiv1jigu1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/5e80c0db4bf534fdbb631580755dd4e0/tumblr_oskivhTm5I1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

......

https://68.media.tumblr.com/f36bfb658be5d86483ad9c72bb2a1479/tumblr_oskiuq1gPt1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/d02500889d8dc3fe901f3d83e2ebc67a/tumblr_oskiugjUOB1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

Theres also the London massacre/Voids Manhattan massacre. Kid Miracle Man manipulating Johnny/ Void manipulating Robert. Both are middleaged overweight, blond, impotent husbands in nonpowered forms. Both got plot amnesia, aged and suddenly remembered everything. Both good side antagonist aspects begged for death after recoiling at the horror they caused.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/a222a057c35600210bcfe3297bda171c/tumblr_oskiruwnQw1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/f3a43d784db81fb050f5997d5f4e541f/tumblr_oskir9qo7a1wrmisbo1_400.jpg

Etc etc...but yea hes a superman ripoff cuz hes like strong n can fly n shit.

Now post the comments of the Marvel writers INCLUDING THE CREATOR of the character in reference to Superman's influence.

Your comments clearly indicate your inability to grasp subtlety, nuance, and context as it comes to the application of Superman's mythos in reference to Sentry.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I read once an interview where his creator stated that he had Superman in mind or he wanted to make Marvels Superman or something like this. Can't remember the page and my memory is quite vague about what he exactly said. There are so many things that happen over the years and so much new info, that I seem to forget things like this. I can't even remember the names of most of my classmates when i see their pics xD. I still remember the important things so it can't be that bad...

I wasnt doubting you. 😚

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Now post the comments of the Marvel writers INCLUDING THE CREATOR of the character in reference to Superman's influence.

Your comments clearly indicate your inability to grasp subtlety, nuance, and context as it comes to the application of Superman's mythos in reference to Sentry.

Those are Veitch words about what his thoughts are on Jenkins stolen ideas. Veitch didnt even write ANY SENTRY STORIES. Ive seen that interview guy youre not schoolin anyone here. Stop parroting shit u dont know

http://www.rickveitch.com/tag/the-sentry/

The original idea was NOT a clone. And even if it was writer statements mean nothing compared to on panel feats. You have my permission to leave now.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
The original idea was NOT a clone. And even if it was writer statements mean nothing compared to on panel feats. You have my permission to leave now.

You really ARE not that bright!

The ON PANEL FEATS SUPPORT THE SUPERMAN CANON MARKING SENTRY AS A CLONE!!!!

Others have already pointed these story arcs to you.

I've DESTROYED and SHAMED you about your IGNORANCE of Thor.

DON'T MAKE ME HUMBLE YOU AGAIN!!!!

https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/superman/images/1/14/250px-NuclearMan2.jpg
Sentry= Nuclear Man.

Blatantly.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I wasnt doubting you. 😚



Those are Veitch words about what his thoughts are on Jenkins stolen ideas. Veitch didnt even write ANY SENTRY STORIES. Ive seen that interview guy youre not schoolin anyone here. Stop parroting shit u dont know

http://www.rickveitch.com/tag/the-sentry/

This part was TOO GOOD!!!

WHAT DID JENKINS AND BENDIS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT SENTRY'S STATUS IN REFERENCE TO SUPERMAN?!!!

I SAID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ANY VEITCH INTERVIEW!!!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You really ARE not that bright!

The ON PANEL FEATS SUPPORT THE SUPERMAN CANON MARKING SENTRY AS A CLONE!!!!

Others have already pointed these story arcs to you.

I've DESTROYED and SHAMED you about your IGNORANCE of Thor.

DON'T MAKE ME HUMBLE YOU AGAIN!!!!

Naw troll harder and continue to ride the coattails of others arguments. U r beneath my notice

Originally posted by panthergod
https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/superman/images/1/14/250px-NuclearMan2.jpg
Sentry= Nuclear Man.

Blatantly.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Naw troll harder and continue to ride the coattails of others arguments. U r beneath my notice

You get demolished routinely here and no coattails are required.

Do you need to be reminded of the THOR THRASHING????

Superman 3: featuring the theme that is the heart of Sentry concept as a Superman derivative:

https://youtu.be/fQ5sMUzf2bo

Jenkins has said as well that he intended for Sentry to have similarities with Miracleman, if you look at their origin stories they are eerily similar. Both wake up from a bad dream. Both appear to be overweight in their human form. They both remember who they were previously and transform into the superheroes they once were. Both have alter egos.

They both had catastrophic battles resulting in many hundreds of deaths. Though in the Miracleman comic they depict it much better. No idea why they didn't in the Sentry comic. Perhaps due to censorship.

===

I never understand why people are so obsessed with Sentry being a clone of Superman. They really are so much different. Right they have a base of operations, have a canine companion, have an s on the costume so how does that make him a direct clone? In the end is there anything one could dof or a character like that without them being like Superman in any way?

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Jenkins has said as well that he intended for Sentry to have similarities with Miracleman, if you look at their origin stories they are eerily similar. Both wake up from a bad dream. Both appear to be overweight in their human form. They both remember who they were previously and transform into the superheroes they once were. Both have alter egos.

They both had catastrophic battles resulting in many hundreds of deaths. Though in the Miracleman comic they depict it much better. No idea why they didn't in the Sentry comic. Perhaps due to censorship.

===

I never understand why people are so obsessed with Sentry being a clone of Superman. They really are so much different. Right they have a base of operations, have a canine companion, have an s on the costume so how does that make him a direct clone? In the end is there anything one could dof or a character like that without them being like Superman in any way?



Sentry isn't anything close to being a Superman clone. They don't have a single thing alike minus an S shield. If flight, super strength and super speed makes you a clone then the first page would be full of 100s of peeps.

http://i.imgur.com/5OzNDkD.gif

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Jenkins has said as well that he intended for Sentry to have similarities with Miracleman, if you look at their origin stories they are eerily similar. Both wake up from a bad dream. Both appear to be overweight in their human form. They both remember who they were previously and transform into the superheroes they once were. Both have alter egos.

They both had catastrophic battles resulting in many hundreds of deaths. Though in the Miracleman comic they depict it much better. No idea why they didn't in the Sentry comic. Perhaps due to censorship.

===

I never understand why people are so obsessed with Sentry being a clone of Superman. They really are so much different. Right they have a base of operations, have a canine companion, have an s on the costume so how does that make him a direct clone? In the end is there anything one could dof or a character like that without them being like Superman in any way?

..Miracleman is a third gen Superman derivative as well, so.. Yeah. None of your arguments refute the fact that Sentry influences are a confluence of Superman derivative ideas. Directly or indirectly. Even the idea of being forgotten is derived from Len Weins Superman run.

Originally posted by carver9


Sentry isn't anything close to being a Superman clone. They don't have a single thing alike minus an S shield. If flight, super strength and super speed makes you a clone then the first page would be full of 100s of peeps.

Lol you're just lying at this point.

Originally posted by carver9


Sentry isn't anything close to being a Superman clone. They don't have a single thing alike minus an S shield. If flight, super strength and super speed makes you a clone then the first page would be full of 100s of peeps.

YOU IRK ME, GAMMITE!!!

TAKE YOUR LEAVE!!!

^^^In his defense, you are easily irked.

Originally posted by panthergod
..Miracleman is a third gen Superman derivative as well, so.. Yeah. None of your arguments refute the fact that Sentry influences are a confluence of Superman derivative ideas. Directly or indirectly. Even the idea of being forgotten is derived from Len Weins Superman run.

Why are you so intent for Superman to be the inspiration behind every character in such a huge way? I gave a perfectly good reason as to why Sentry is a pastiche of sorts to Miracleman but instead of addressing that you jump to oh well Miracleman is obviously a Superman derivative which is completely missing the point.

I could go back to fiction before Superman and find something from any medium where a character forgets his identity and call Superman a derivative of that. But it wouldn't be true. By some extent Superman has such a vast history you can pick many characters and find one thing they share with Superman and say well he's a Superman copy.

Nobody is denying and I have never said (and you can ask anyone on this forum) that heroes like Superman (as in the caped flying Superhero etc etc) probably wouldn't be around as much if not for Superman and the impact he had. But just because characters share characteristics doesn't instantly mean they have to be a direct clone. There comes a point where denying certain similarities is something I wouldn't do because I would be disingenuous.

But I think you are confusing sharing characteristics by element of nature to direct derivation. Does any character with a red and blue costume mean it was inspired by Superman for example? Red and Blue are some of the most popular colours in the world so many designers would be bound to choose them. Doesn't mean they have Superman in mind every millisecond that they use their brain to design does it?

Originally posted by panthergod
Lol you're just lying at this point.

I don't see why you are having a go at carver. You've hardly made a good argument for your side as it is. Basically just being rude to me and carver for some reason.

Which is something I'd suggest you soon rectify.

===

And I noticed Sin had already posted the images I mentioned so thanks for that.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^In his defense, you are easily irked.

SILENCE!!!

off topic rant. I really think that Nuclear Man was a great char and should come back in the DC comics.

Nuclear Man embodies everything I loved about the 80s.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JFNSGBF7p5c/WG3M_G6uIWI/AAAAAAAAAJk/Onio_JszQhEW1porxdaKXF_9A5QXv58jgCLcB/s1600/SupermanVsNukularNails.gif

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Why are you so intent for Superman to be the inspiration behind every character in such a huge way? I gave a perfectly good reason as to why Sentry is a pastiche of sorts to Miracleman but instead of addressing that you jump to oh well Miracleman is obviously a Superman derivative which is completely missing the point.

I could go back to fiction before Superman and find something from any medium where a character forgets his identity and call Superman a derivative of that. But it wouldn't be true. By some extent Superman has such a vast history you can pick many characters and find one thing they share with Superman and say well he's a Superman copy.

Nobody is denying and I have never said (and you can ask anyone on this forum) that heroes like Superman (as in the caped flying Superhero etc etc) probably wouldn't be around as much if not for Superman and the impact he had. But just because characters share characteristics doesn't instantly mean they have to be a direct clone. There comes a point where denying certain similarities is something I wouldn't do because I would be disingenuous.

But I think you are confusing sharing characteristics by element of nature to direct derivation. Does any character with a red and blue costume mean it was inspired by Superman for example? Red and Blue are some of the most popular colours in the world so many designers would be bound to choose them. Doesn't mean they have Superman in mind every millisecond that they use their brain to design does it?

..so just disingenuous obfuscation to avoid acknowledging facts you cannot refute then? Ok.

Moore s first Miracleman arc (a well as elements later found in Watchmen and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow)is a virtual plagarism of the novel Superfolks featuring a clear superman analog/parody coming out of retirement and fighting his evil counterpart.

So yes Sentry is a 5th gen Superman ripoff with elements from OTHER Superman analogues.. With a twist. No amount of deflections and strawman to avoid the facts will change that.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I don't see why you are having a go at carver. You've hardly made a good argument for your side as it is. Basically just being rude to me and carver for some reason.

Which is something I'd suggest you soon rectify.

===

And I noticed Sin had already posted the images I mentioned so thanks for that.

The facts I've presented haven't been disputed on the merits merely ignored by people who don't know Superman that well. So they stand. My pointing out blatant lies at this point also stands. At this point its some people putting fingers in their ears deliberately ignorings facts and me calling it out with facts. I've made specific citations refuted the visual argument and Miracleman is a ripoff of two separate analog/ ripofffs. Including a legally proven one. Refute the facts I've brought to the table or acknowledge your stance has zero merit. To deny Sentry status as a Superman ripoff is laughable intellectually dishonest anti Superman bias. Nothing more.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nuclear Man embodies everything I loved about the 80s.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JFNSGBF7p5c/WG3M_G6uIWI/AAAAAAAAAJk/Onio_JszQhEW1porxdaKXF_9A5QXv58jgCLcB/s1600/SupermanVsNukularNails.gif

Richard Pryor A BLACK MAN elevated the Superman movie franchise in the 80's.

Did you LOVE that!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Richard Pryor A BLACK MAN elevated the Superman movie franchise in the 80's.

Did you LOVE that!

Bro...chill....

Originally posted by Galan007
Nuclear Man embodies everything I loved about the 80s.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JFNSGBF7p5c/WG3M_G6uIWI/AAAAAAAAAJk/Onio_JszQhEW1porxdaKXF_9A5QXv58jgCLcB/s1600/SupermanVsNukularNails.gif


Used to have a sig of him and Supes on the moon.

Originally posted by panthergod
..so just disingenuous obfuscation to avoid acknowledging facts you cannot refute then? Ok.

Moore s first Miracleman arc (a well as elements later found in Watchmen and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow)is a virtual plagarism of the novel Superfolks featuring a clear superman analog/parody coming out of retirement and fighting his evil counterpart.

So yes Sentry is a 5th gen Superman ripoff with elements from OTHER Superman analogues.. With a twist. No amount of deflections and strawman to avoid the facts will change that.

You aren't even reading my messages are you? Show me where I denied any of that?

Originally posted by panthergod
The facts I've presented haven't been disputed on the merits merely ignored by people who don't know Superman that well. So they stand. My pointing out blatant lies at this point also stands. At this point its some people putting fingers in their ears deliberately ignorings facts and me calling it out with facts. I've made specific citations refuted the visual argument and Miracleman is a ripoff of two separate analog/ ripofffs. Including a legally proven one. Refute the facts I've brought to the table or acknowledge your stance has zero merit. To deny Sentry status as a Superman ripoff is laughable intellectually dishonest anti Superman bias. Nothing more.

My stance is that it's obvious he isn't a rip off. Shares similarities yes just like a lot of characters do which I mentioned. It really would do you some good if you actually read what I said.

Originally posted by panthergod
Bro...chill....

It's an inside thing, all is well!

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
My stance is that it's obvious he isn't a rip off. Shares similarities yes just like a lot of characters do which I mentioned. It really would do you some good if you actually read what I said.


You are btw the reason why I like Sentry and changed my view on him .

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

You are btw the reason why I like Sentry and changed my view on him .

Thanks mate

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

You are btw the reason why I like Sentry and changed my view on him .

LIES!!!

The REAL reason is the incomparable.....

ENZERU!!!!

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
^Sin, he is a Superman homage because the creator had Superman in Mind while creating him. Miracle Man is also a homage to CM who is a Superman-clone, or someone who was created to be like Superman. But I wouldn't say these days that he is a ripp off, rather he is influenced by chars like Superman, MM and such.

According to the link below, that's not so much the case.

http://www.rickveitch.com/?s=sentry

"Jenkins and I had envisioned SENTRY as a completely original mid-level superhero, on the level of IRON MAN or DAREDEVIL. In the series he became one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel Universe; pretty much a SUPERMAN clone dressed in the requisite cape and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound etc."

Sentry eventually became Superman-like later on and based solely on power level and cape. Starting at the bottom of the page, one can see that the concept started with the desire for a drug addled character and the original concept art was quite different.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/47703/3752542-untitled-2.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/47703/3752541-untitled-1a.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/47703/3750117-untitled-1.jpg

^ And that IS Goku's origin/backstory nowadays. Legit canon.

Wait what? When was this? Must be in the new dragon ball series.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
My stance is that it's obvious he isn't a rip off. Shares similarities yes just like a lot of characters do which I mentioned. It really would do you some good if you actually read what I said.

😚😚😚

Originally posted by -K-M-
Wait what? When was this? Must be in the new dragon ball series. It's from a little standalone manga called "Dragon Ball Minus" -- was released a few years back.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
According to the link below, that's not so much the case.

http://www.rickveitch.com/?s=sentry

"Jenkins and I had envisioned SENTRY as a completely original mid-level superhero, on the level of IRON MAN or DAREDEVIL. In the series he became one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel Universe; pretty much a SUPERMAN clone dressed in the requisite cape and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound etc."

Sentry eventually became Superman-like later on and based solely on power level and cape. Starting at the bottom of the page, one can see that the concept started with the desire for a drug addled character and the original concept art was quite different.
You do realize this still proves the point actually. Sentry as printed is a Superman clone. According to his co creator. A guy who knows a thing or two about Superman analogues having written Maximortal. Another Superman parody.

Case closed.

Originally posted by panthergod
You do realize this still proves the point actually. Sentry as printed is a Superman clone. According to his co creator. A guy who knows a thing or two about Superman analogues having written Maximortal. Another Superman parody.

Case closed.

You're arguing that he's a rip-off. Most in this thread agree to the clone label semantics but not the rip-off label. Clones are similar mostly in superficial ways, predominantly powers and abilities and a cape adds to it. Beyond that, Sentry is very unsimilar and the link shows that Superman was not the bases for the character's creation. Veitch specifically uses the clone label to describe him as having a cape and superstrength.

gabriel shepherd is pretty superman like....

Originally posted by Galan007
^ And that IS Goku's origin/backstory nowadays. Legit canon. The special was fine. Was retconning perfection necessary?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
You're arguing that he's a rip-off. Most in this thread agree to the clone label semantics but not the rip-off label. Clones are similar mostly in superficial ways, predominantly powers and abilities and a cape adds to it. Beyond that, Sentry is very unsimilar and the link shows that Superman was not the bases for the character's creation. Veitch specifically uses the clone label to describe him as having a cape and superstrength.

So you're reduced to dishonest semantics at this point. Got it.

Superman it the basis of the character that saw print. Anything before that is irrelevant. Superman was originally a bald telepathic supervillain before he saw print. What saw print was Space Moses/Samson Hercules Gilgamesh Michael the Archangel/Hugo Danner/Doc Savage/Tarzan/John Carter amalgamation.

Batman had a red bodysuit Domino mask and glider wings before he saw print. What saw print was a blatant Shadow/Zorro clone.

Sentry as printed is a Superman ripoff aka clone and there's nothing you can do to change that.

Originally posted by panthergod
So you're reduced to dishonest semantics at this point. Got it.

Superman it the basis of the character that saw print. Anything before that is irrelevant. Superman was originally a bald telepathic supervillain before he saw print. What saw print was Space Moses/Samson Hercules Gilgamesh Michael the Archangel/Hugo Danner/Doc Savage/Tarzan/John Carter amalgamation.

Batman had a red bodysuit Domino mask and glider wings before he saw print. What saw print was a blatant Shadow/Zorro clone.

Sentry as printed is a Superman ripoff aka clone and there's nothing you can do to change that.

So flying brick Superman is a Namor clone/rip-off. Thanks.

ermm

Originally posted by spetznaz
I'd also be interested in exactly what type of radiation it is that he's vulnerable to.
I believe that would b "Dorkium".

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
SILENCE!!!
#irked

Originally posted by riv6672
#irked riv , I like yer style! I wonder if we might even b the same cool person, utilizing 2 separate forum accounts.

Thought you were an homage.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
So flying brick Superman is a Namor clone/rip-off. Thanks.

It's the flying brick, the alliterative names,the cape, the weak alter ego, the robot manservant (Kelex for Supes, CLOC for Sentry), the reference to the sun in their powers....and the highly debatable 'power levels dependent on mindset' thing.

Originally posted by riv6672
Thought you were an homage. that IS the kind of subtle, yet humorous reply I would post, and I do feel I am deserving of the occassional homage, but I dont remember replying to anything I posted tonight.

So, I guess u probably ARE a separate entity from me.

Probably. But, either way, we come away winners!

Im glad we had this talk.

Gladiator easy, he's called Kallark ffs.

Sentry is not a superman clone, period.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's the flying brick, the alliterative names,the cape, the weak alter ego, the robot manservant (Kelex for Supes, CLOC for Sentry), the reference to the sun in their powers....and the highly debatable 'power levels dependent on mindset' thing.

Superman doesn't have a weak alter ego. He has a disguised alter ego. Sentry is more in line with Hulk and Thor with regard to a weak alter ego.

CLOC is a computer. Kelex is a robot more in line with H.E.R.B.I.E of the Fantastic Four.

Sentry's power level is not really based on mindset.

The Sun is never referenced in Sentry's power and his power is not solar based.

Regarding alliterative names, the lists on the two links below sort of dispel the notion that having alliterative names in you mythos is copying Superman.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/120217/which-marvel-characters-have-alliterative-names

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/120334/which-dc-characters-have-alliterative-names

Alliterative names are comicbook classic and the intent was to give Sentry a classic feel with regard to his flashbacks.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Superman doesn't have a weak alter ego. He has a disguised alter ego. Sentry is more in line with Hulk and Thor with regard to a weak alter ego.

CLOC is a computer. Kelex is a robot more in line with H.E.R.B.I.E of the Fantastic Four.

Sentry's power level is not really based on mindset.

The Sun is never referenced in Sentry's power and his power is not solar based.

Regarding alliterative names, the lists on the two links below sort of dispel the notion that having alliterative names in you mythos is copying Superman.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/120217/which-marvel-characters-have-alliterative-names

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/120334/which-dc-characters-have-alliterative-names

Alliterative names are comicbook classic and the intent was to give Sentry a classic feel with regard to his flashbacks.

You kinda missed my point.

But yeah, am sure Namor has all these traits too.

And are you sure suns are not referenced? Not even...one million of them?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Superman doesn't have a weak alter ego. He has a disguised alter ego. Sentry is more in line with Hulk and Thor with regard to a weak alter ego.

CLOC is a computer. Kelex is a robot more in line with H.E.R.B.I.E of the Fantastic Four.

Sentry's power level is not really based on mindset.

The Sun is never referenced in Sentry's power and his power is not solar based.

Regarding alliterative names, the lists on the two links below sort of dispel the notion that having alliterative names in you mythos is copying Superman.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/120217/which-marvel-characters-have-alliterative-names

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/120334/which-dc-characters-have-alliterative-names

Alliterative names are comicbook classic and the intent was to give Sentry a classic feel with regard to his flashbacks.

His power level is definitely based on mindset. And relating to solar power references are made here.

http://i.imgur.com/R6mzheL.jpg

and

http://i.imgur.com/nyfZ8vl.jpg1

Its pathetic the circles they'll argue in to deny the obvious fact that Sentry is a Superman ripoff.. Including using his co creator acknowledging that he's a Superman clone.. Lmaooo

Originally posted by panthergod
Its pathetic the circles they'll argue in to deny the obvious fact that Sentry is a Superman ripoff.. Including using his co creator acknowledging that he's a Superman clone.. Lmaooo

I don't necessarily agree with you. I am a Sentry fan and always have been. But I'm not gonna willingly deny something. And I am not saying Hulkster is because I imagine he was just unaware of them scans.

They aren't arguing in circles like you say. They are making arguments they believe to be true. The only reason it could appear to be a circle is if the argument keeps going and going.

I don't think Sentry is a rip off. I just don't think that's true at all.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I don't necessarily agree with you. I am a Sentry fan and always have been. But I'm not gonna willingly deny something. And I am not saying Hulkster is because I imagine he was just unaware of them scans.

They aren't arguing in circles like you say. They are making arguments they believe to be true. The only reason it could appear to be a circle is if the argument keeps going and going.

I don't think Sentry is a rip off. I just don't think that's true at all.

Ignore him. Rather than use on panel evidence to support his claim hes gonna keep screaming superman. Let it go Scot

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
His power level is definitely based on mindset. And relating to solar power references are made here.

http://i.imgur.com/R6mzheL.jpg

and

http://i.imgur.com/nyfZ8vl.jpg1

I don't generally have recollections from handbooks. They are still written by chosen fans and the editors and writers have nothing to do with them. Is there a scene in the comics that show him losing power due to losing confidence? Not saying that there is not, but I all recall is his power manifesting in specific ways according to his mental state.

I had forgotten that comic scene being that it is from something like the second page of the original miniseries and the next page, Bob, who knows that he is the Sentry, questions whether that particular memory is real of something he read in a comicbook. The idea of being powered by sunlight has since been contradicted and eventually totally discarded by Bendis. Sentry's true origin and powers/power source is still unrevealed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You kinda missed my point.

But yeah, am sure Namor has all these traits too.

And are you sure suns are not referenced? Not even...one million of them?

The point is that Namor being the first flying brick doesn't make Superman developing flight after a rip-off. PG referenced Hercules with regard to Superman, yet could one rightfully call Superman a Hercules rip-off? And I was referencing The Sun, as in Sol. He has the catch phrase of a million exploding suns, which describes power magnitude and most people don't take literally. Now there is one reference to The Sun that has been shown above.

Of course, I can write a far larger list of differences between the characters. I don't see a rip-off. I see influence. Sentry would be near the bottom of the list, just above Blue Marvel. Neither are rip-offs IMO.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
I don't generally have recollections from handbooks. They are still written by chosen fans and the editors and writers have nothing to do with them. Is there a scene in the comics that show him losing power due to losing confidence? Not saying that there is not, but I all recall is his power manifesting in specific ways according to his mental state.

I had forgotten that comic scene being that it is from something like the second page of the original miniseries and the next page, Bob, who knows that he is the Sentry, questions whether that particular memory is real of something he read in a comicbook. The idea of being powered by sunlight has since been contradicted and eventually totally discarded by Bendis. Sentry's true origin and powers/power source is still unrevealed.

I was just showing you bits of info is all. Like as in you mentioned the solar power not being involved but just thought I'd share the scan so you saw it. Right or not just thought it'd be good.

Originally posted by h1a8
Which character is the biggest and most blatant ripoff than all the others?

Consider origin story, overall powers, appearance, etc.

Here are some candidates (but not limited to these):

Gladiator
Hyperion
Metroman
Sentry
Blue Marvel

Hyperion
Gladiator
Blue Marvel

Sentry should not be on that list.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I was just showing you bits of info is all. Like as in you mentioned the solar power not being involved but just thought I'd share the scan so you saw it. Right or not just thought it'd be good.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I don't necessarily agree with you. I am a Sentry fan and always have been. But I'm not gonna willingly deny something. And I am not saying Hulkster is because I imagine he was just unaware of them scans.

They aren't arguing in circles like you say. They are making arguments they believe to be true.
If that were true they would be acknowledging the fact that tear their argument into shreads such as the verbatim quote from Sentry s co creator that acknowledges what any honest knowledgable person knows to be true--he's a Superman clone.



You don't like the term because you like the character. Clone=ripoff with less negative connotation. Everything about how the character has been presented as printed has Superman as its primary influence even the OTHER Superman analogues he retains elements from. The foundation of the character as printed is a Superman clone according to his co creator. That should end the dispute among intellectually honest people.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nuclear Man embodies everything I loved about the 80s.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JFNSGBF7p5c/WG3M_G6uIWI/AAAAAAAAAJk/Onio_JszQhEW1porxdaKXF_9A5QXv58jgCLcB/s1600/SupermanVsNukularNails.gif

This is like the longest gif ever

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Ignore him. Rather than use on panel evidence to support his claim hes gonna keep screaming superman. Let it go Scot
Ive cited a half dozen Superman references proving the facts conclusively. You haven't refuted a single reference merely waved them away as you have little to no in depth knowledge of the subject at hand. Even your counter arguments referring to other Superman clones/analogues being his influence still prove my point. At this point, any claiming he isnt a Superman clone as his co creator acknowledged is deliberately lying.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Its the word "ripoff" its demeaning. Homage and analogue are fine. Ripoff suggests parody or copyright infringement. Batman is based off the Shadow, Zorrow, Shelock etc for example yet noone calls him a rip off. Even Clark isnt a wholly original concept.

.. This is what it comes down to. YES Batman is a Shadow ripoff first and foremost. That doesn't take away from his greatness. Its just a fact. Intellectually honest people don't have a problem admitting it.