Lord Vyndktvx Vs New 52 Darkseid

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Zack M
http://i63.tinypic.com/uxy01.jpg

vs

http://i63.tinypic.com/9r6d87.jpg

Galan007
Where Vynd is concerned, this is all we really know...
Originally posted by Galan007
First and foremost: Vyndktvx stole three 'sublime weapons' from Zrfff's vault/arsenal. One of which(the Million-Pointed Multispear) was capable of perma-killing 5-D beings with a single strike... A fact he demonstrated on the Imp King:
http://i.imgur.com/IWgjfUn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EwkAYQ2.jpg
*The Multispear also destroyed 230 worlds instantly as a side effect of that one strike. /shrug

Aside from that, Vyndktvx was able to manifest his essence as metatextual thought-form technology *enter "Super-Doomsday"*

"I'm an unstoppable killer franchise from a parallel reality! A thought that gets bigger and bigger the more you think it.":
http://i.imgur.com/SdD7Ikm.jpg

"I'm the thought of a bigger Superman I'm powered by a simple corporate directive: annihilate the competition!":
http://i.imgur.com/QbqJ0lT.jpg

He was also attacking Superman at all points in his timeline simultaneously:
http://i.imgur.com/p9odMa2.jpg

In fact, his battle with Superman was taking place in "A HIGHER-UP world too... In ALL the different worlds there are, ALL at the same time.":
http://i.imgur.com/739znxy.jpg
IOW, the battle was simultaneously taking place across the entire multiverse AND the higher-dimensional planes as well.

Superman ultimately stopped Vyndktvx with a metatextual plot-device just before he destroyed creation:
http://i.imgur.com/THmLtX6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ghp0KHZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3EU9wvd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2y4OkES.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9G0fMQG.jpg

Morrison was going through his 'meta-phase' when he wrote those issues of AC, so Vynd's power wasn't very defined otherwise. ermm

Zack M
If you had to bet money, who would you say would win?

operator616
The imp wins.

Galan007
Originally posted by Zack M
If you had to bet money, who would you say would win? Vynd... Solely by virtue of being an Imp.

operator616
Morrison had Mxy literally pull a 3D universe out of his hat for shits and giggles, that's how insignificant the entire 3D continuum is for a higher dimensional world in the vyndktvx story. So yes, id say being an imp is enough to beat Darkseid.

panthergod
Originally posted by operator616
Morrison had Mxy literally pull a 3D universe out of his hat for shits and giggles, that's how insignificant the entire 3D continuum is for a higher dimensional world in the vyndktvx story. So yes, id say being an imp is enough to beat Darkseid.
..pretty sure Morrison depicts the Fourth World as higher dimensional as well..

Mindset
Originally posted by panthergod
..pretty sure Morrison depicts the Fourth World as higher dimensional as well.. 5 > 4

Galan007
Per Morrison's Map, the 4th World(home of Apokolips and New Genesis) is a dimensional plane above the mainstream 3D multiverse, and below the Monitor Sphere/Nil:
http://i.imgur.com/OTpHJH6.jpg
*As you can imagine(especially with Morrison's insanely metatextual take on 5D beings in general), the 5th dimension/Zrfff transcends the Map all together...

So while New Gods are treated as extremely powerful higher-dimensional entities(and rightfully so), they are still WELL below Imps on the celestial food chain.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Galan007
Per Morrison's Map, the 4th World(home of Apokolips and New Genesis) is a dimensional plane above the mainstream 3D multiverse, and below the Monitor Sphere/Nil:
http://i.imgur.com/OTpHJH6.jpg
*As you can imagine(especially with Morrison's insanely metatextual take on 5D beings in general), the 5th dimension/Zrfff transcends the Map all together...

So while New Gods are treated as higher-dimensional entities, with higher-dimensional tech and such, they are still FAR below Imps on the celestial food chain.
Bit of a shame that the Nil come before the source wall

I always assumed that Nil was outside of DC

Galan007
Only Imps get that honor. vin

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
Per Morrison's Map, the 4th World(home of Apokolips and New Genesis) is a dimensional plane above the mainstream 3D multiverse, and below the Monitor Sphere/Nil:
http://i.imgur.com/OTpHJH6.jpg
*As you can imagine(especially with Morrison's insanely metatextual take on 5D beings in general), the 5th dimension/Zrfff transcends the Map all together...

So while New Gods are treated as extremely powerful higher-dimensional entities(and rightfully so), they are still WELL below Imps on the celestial food chain. Am I blind, or is Zrfff nowhere on the map?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Bit of a shame that the Nil come before the source wall

I always assumed that Nil was outside of DC The Source, per Morrison, is the blank page - it's not a character per-say.

As such, it's outside of story entirely.

xJLxKing
Is that not the overvoid?

Hell even the little picture shows the source wall and overvoid as two different things

Philosophía
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Is that not the overvoid?

Hell even the little picture shows the source wall and overvoid as two different things The Source = The Overvoid.

Source Wall =/= Source.

The Source Wall is the separation between the Overvoid and the rest.

Philosophía
Here:



Hope this clears it up for you.

Philosophía

xJLxKing
You have to admit though, it's very contradicting.

I always assumed the Source god within DC. While the overvoid just being outside of D.C., representing a white paper.

Anyway, Thats pretty much clears up my questions

Galan007
Originally posted by Phil
Am I blind, or is Zrfff nowhere on the map? Nope, it's not there. That's what I was saying -- the 5th dimension/Zrfff transcends the Map all together. thumb up

Zack M
Speaking of Morrison's map.

http://i65.tinypic.com/ncxzcl.jpg

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
Nope, it's not there. That's what I was saying -- the 5th dimension/Zrfff transcends the Map all together. thumb up Maaaybe.

I'm curios how Morrison would explain it.
Originally posted by Zack M
Speaking of Morrison's map.

http://i65.tinypic.com/ncxzcl.jpg

I really feel Snyder has an inferiority complex when it comes to Morrison.

He always seems to go completely against what Grant set up - first with Batman now with the DC cosmology .

Galan007
Originally posted by Phil
Maaaybe.

I'm curios how Morrison would explain it. He's explained it pretty in depth actually. Morrison views the fifth dimension as pure imagination. ie. any time we, in the real world, imagine something(however big or small), we are actually accessing the fifth dimension in some way. And before you ask: yes, Morrison has flat-out stated his perception that 'imagination=the fifth dimension' stems from multiple LSD trips he had decades ago, lol.

He's also made his opinion on the matter clear over the years, on panel:
http://i.imgur.com/xZTNfFJ.jpg
"Imagination is the Fifth dimension."

And very recently(though not under Morrison, but certainly written in the same hue), Mxy had a page-long dialogue explaining his existence as an imagination-based thought-form:
http://i.imgur.com/eR9BixR.jpg
"I don't need a body. I've lived on, and will live on, in heads. The heads of the authors who write me. I have no vocal cords, and yet right now, you're hearing my voice. I'm living in your head right now Ideas are agency. We are Gods. You are just puppets. As long as there's one of you, there'll be a hundred of us."

*There's quite a bit more, but no real need to post it here(and I'm sure you've seen the material anyway.)


In a nutshell: when you factor in Morrison's perception of the fifth dimension, there's no real way to list/place it on a 2D plane, as it is not really a distinct physical location -- it exists primarily in the minds/imaginations of the readers. That's why I believe it transcends his Map all together. /shrug


______________________________


On another note, Phil: have you ever read Morrison's "Supergods" novel? If you want some fantastic insight as to how that man perceives concepts like this, it's a must read... Really expands on his metatextual works. thumb up

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
He's explained it pretty in depth actually. Morrison views the fifth dimension as pure imagination. ie. any time we, in the real world, imagine something(however big or small), we are actually accessing the fifth dimension in some way. And before you ask: yes, Morrison has flat-out stated his perception that 'imagination=the fifth dimension' stems from multiple LSD trips he had decades ago, lol.

He's also made his opinion on the matter clear over the years, on panel:
http://i.imgur.com/xZTNfFJ.jpg
"Imagination is the Fifth dimension."

And very recently(though not under Morrison, but certainly written in the same hue), Mxy had a page-long dialogue explaining his existence as an imagination-based thought-form:
http://i.imgur.com/eR9BixR.jpg
"I don't need a body. I've lived on, and will live on, in heads. The heads of the authors who write me. I have no vocal cords, and yet right now, you're hearing my voice. I'm living in your head right now Ideas are agency. We are Gods. You are just puppets. As long as there's one of you, there'll be a hundred of us."

*There's quite a bit more, but no real need to post it here(and I'm sure you've seen the material anyway.)


In a nutshell: when you factor in Morrison's perception of the fifth dimension, there's no real way to list/place it on a 2D plane, as it is not really a distinct physical location -- it exists primarily in the minds/imaginations of the readers. That's why I believe it transcends his Map all together. /shrug

Oh, I know about this, but I still think he'd put it on the map - after all, he put concepts such as the blank page and Ink in story/map. Technically speaking, the 5th Dimension would probably be what give the Ink shape , but I'd like to see it in print, before I take the leap - even if it makes sense, given what he's wrote beforehand. Because, at the same time, Mxy is meeting and referencing real life writers/editors - so it's kind of contradictory for him to be shaping the ink. Unless he's supposed to be the concept inside that same writers' mind, that helps him give shape to the stories.etc.

Originally posted by Galan007
On another note, Phil: have you ever read Morrison's "Supergods" novel? If you want some fantastic insight as to how that man perceives concepts like this, it's a must read... Really expands on his metatextual works. thumb up I have it down---erm, bought obviously, but I haven't gotten around to reading it. I know that if I start, I won't stop, so I'll wait until I have more time.

Galan007
Originally posted by Phil
Oh, I know about this, but I still think he'd put it on the map - after all, he put concepts such as the blank page and Ink in story/map. Technically speaking, the 5th Dimension would probably be what give the Ink shape , but I'd like to see it in print. Oh yeah, I'd like to see him officially list it in a canon source as well -- but until then, all we have are logical speculations... Which are just as much fun for me. stick out tongue

Originally posted by Phil
Because, at the same time, Mxy is meeting and referencing real life writers/editors - so it's kind of contradictory for him to be shaping the ink. Unless he's supposed to be the concept inside that same writers' mind, that helps him give shape to the stories.etc. I think that's exactly what's happening, tbh.

Originally posted by Phil
I have it down---erm, bought obviously, but I haven't gotten around to reading it. I know that if I start, I won't stop, so I'll wait until I have more time. Heh, sounds like we 'bought' it from the same place. g007_pirate

But yeah, I just reread it myself. It solidifies why he is my favorite comic book writer. Bar none.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
I think that's exactly what's happening, tbh.
I do, too, but the implications of that are too big to go forward without him actually putting it there.

Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, sounds like we 'bought' it from the same place. g007_pirate

But yeah, I just reread it myself. It solidifies why he is my favorite comic book writer. Bar none. He broke my enjoyment of comics.

I haven't been excited for anything as much as I was for Final Crisis/Superman Beyond/Batman run.

Galan007
I know what you mean.

Animal Man, DC One Million, Seven Soldiers, All-Star Superman, Final Crisis/Superman Beyond, Multiversity, Batman RIP/Return of Bruce Wayne/Batman Inc., etc. (and that's not even counting the brilliant titles he's released with Vertigo and Image.)

These are some of my favorite comics EVER...the books I compare damn near everything to...and they're all Morrison-works. As far as I'm concerned, the man's storytelling/delivery is unrivaled.

panthergod
Hes literally using the medium to symbolically help guide the spiritual evolution of the species.. Read up on the influence a on his work from Philip K Dick to Robert Anton Wilson and.. Well.. Its some next level shit.

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