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Who wins

Drax has his blades

No BFR

We didn't (IMHO) see enough of Juggs durability to make an accurate read on how tough he is...

The only thing of note I remember Juggs doing is running through walls...

Anyway, I would need to see more out of Juggs before I could pick a winner in this fight; we just don't have enough to go on...

He shrugged off having tons of concrete phased into his body.

We don't know that it was phased into his body

Originally posted by juggerman
We don't know that it was phased into his body

The way Kitty's phasing works means if she leaves you somewhere, whatever she phased you with becomes phased with your body. She threatened Emma Frost with it in the comics, and in X2 she fell through the floor, but left her blanket half phased in the ceiling when she dropped it.

So the only explanation is that A)he got fused into concrete and shrugged it off, showing an insane durability/healing feat.

Or B) he was so tough his molecules simply didn't allow him to get fused into the concrete, which in itself is potentially even a higher durability feat.

Either way Drax doesn't have the strength to take him down, Cain has greater strength feats. And if he hits him with his knives, he should be fine considering.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/12397/1215251-axmtorn_emma4001.jpg

Comics =/= Movies. For all we know his body displaced the concrete.

I would love nothing more than for film Juggernaut to be as badass as his in in the comics but we can't use comic feats or implications here.

This deleted fight scene shows a bit more of Juggy, though obviously it can't be used for the fight. I found it interesting though.

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Originally posted by juggerman
Comics =/= Movies. For all we know his body displaced the concrete.

I would love nothing more than for film Juggernaut to be as badass as his in in the comics but we can't use comic feats or implications here.

Almost every single person in the movies power works at least 80% similarly to the comic. Even the vastly different ones(like Shaw) still have base similarities. I'm not using her feat against Emma. I'm using her explanation of how her powers work against Emma. The same powers she has in the movie and no producer, writer, director, etc... has come forth and said "Movie Shadowcat has different powers than Comic Shadowcat".


I said either he fused with the concrete and healed/repelled it as soon as he freed himself. Or he was simply so tough he didn't get fused with it in the first place, which would be an even more impressive durability feat. Did you read my post?

It's a stalemate either way. Even ignoring the phasing argument, Drax hasn't shown the striking power to KO someone that can headbutt their way through concrete wall after concrete wall without slowing down. And Juggernaut hasn't shown the striking power to KO someone who can laugh off the ship crash from GotG vol. 2.

True. Although Cain does have a higher strength feat than Ronan in crumpling an APC by jumping on it. And Ronan put Drax down pretty easy sans Gem. But I'm not sure where Ronan stands in comparison to the pinging through the asteroids and the crash.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
We didn't (IMHO) see enough of Juggs durability to make an accurate read on how tough he is...

The only thing of note I remember Juggs doing is running through walls...

Anyway, I would need to see more out of Juggs before I could pick a winner in this fight; we just don't have enough to go on...

No durability feats? Like beung stabbed with Logans claws not even bleeding and instantly healing from it?

*being

Originally posted by Sable
No durability feats? Like beung stabbed with Logans claws not even bleeding and instantly healing from it? That's a deleted scene so it's not really usable. He's right. Juggs didn't have much going for him.

Originally posted by KingD19
True. Although Cain does have a higher strength feat than Ronan in crumpling an APC by jumping on it. And Ronan put Drax down pretty easy sans Gem. But I'm not sure where Ronan stands in comparison to the pinging through the asteroids and the crash.

Well, that's the thing. Drax's durability got kicked up a notch for the second film. We also see him get smacked around by the Abilisk without being hurt either. And then there is a somewhat overlooked feat during the final battle, when he, Gamora and Mantis, fall out of the ship, what looked to be at least several dozen feet, landing without any apparent strain to any of them.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
That's a deleted scene so it's not really usable. He's right. Juggs didn't have much going for him. Didn't Juggernaut take Logan's claw to the face in the movie proper?

Originally posted by KingD19
Almost every single person in the movies power works at least 80% similarly to the comic. Even the vastly different ones(like Shaw) still have base similarities. I'm not using her feat against Emma. I'm using her explanation of how her powers work against Emma. The same powers she has in the movie and no producer, writer, director, etc... has come forth and said "Movie Shadowcat has different powers than Comic Shadowcat".


I said either he fused with the concrete and healed/repelled it as soon as he freed himself. Or he was simply so tough he didn't get fused with it in the first place, which would be an even more impressive durability feat. Did you read my post?

I did read your post and mine still stands. It doesn't matter if their powers are similar to their comic counterparts, fact is we aren't allowed to use comicbook explanations here no matter how much we may want to. For example we know from the comics that Nightcrawler actually crosses into another dimension when he teleports right? But since that little explanation is missing from the films we can't just assume it's the case. Rules is rules

You stated that either 1. Juggs brushed off having shit fused into his body or 2. he was so tough that it didn't fuse into him. I'm saying we don't know that Kitty's power would fuse anyone with anything. For all we know it just displaces the object leaving the victim completely immobilized but unharmed. Assuming they aren't just left there to die this wouldn't be typically fatal or even harmful for anyone

Originally posted by NemeBro
Didn't Juggernaut take Logan's claw to the face in the movie proper?

No...

Logan never landed a claw attack on Juggs on the movie proper...

Logan attempted to claw Juggs, but Juggs hit Wolvies arm...stopping the claw attack.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's a stalemate either way. Even ignoring the phasing argument, Drax hasn't shown the striking power to KO someone that can headbutt their way through concrete wall after concrete wall without slowing down. And Juggernaut hasn't shown the striking power to KO someone who can laugh off the ship crash from GotG vol. 2.

This is true...

With all current info, draw is the likely result...

Originally posted by Arachnid1
That's a deleted scene so it's not really usable. He's right. Juggs didn't have much going for him.

Its not, its in the movie, watch it.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's a stalemate either way. Even ignoring the phasing argument, Drax hasn't shown the striking power to KO someone that can headbutt their way through concrete wall after concrete wall without slowing down. And Juggernaut hasn't shown the striking power to KO someone who can laugh off the ship crash from GotG vol. 2.

He hits just as hard as Ronin who trashed Drax.

I don't recall any feats from Juggernaut to suggest he hits as hard as Ronan. Ronan was able to send Drax flying back over 20 feet with a casual palm thrust (which is especially impressive considering Drax jumped at him, so he countered Drax's forward momentum as well). And he showed better fighting skill than Juggernaut as well. Drax was also drunk, so not at his best. And Drax's durability feats from the 2nd film crap all over his fight with Ronan. During the ship crash scene, he was bouncing off several trees at high velocity, and was literally laughing when the ship finally came to a stop. He also took hits from the Abilisk (the giant monster they fought at the beginning of vol 2) without sustaining any injuries.

Juggs tossed Logan through ceilings and walls, one time through both in one hit.

He tossed Logan through the ceiling once (and Logan fell through again a second later), and through a wall once, and kicked him through a window once (and Logan clipped a bit of the wall on his way through). I don't recall him doing both in one go. And that house was wood that was covered in drywall (you can clearly see it's wood from the outside, and when Jean loses control and starts tearing off the wallpaper, as well as when it lands after she stops using her powers to levitate it), so it's not that impressive. Beyond the other strike I mentioned, Ronan sent Drax flying more than a dozen feet into a metal wall hard enough to warp it on impact. And Juggs wasn't even hitting Logan most of the time. Except for one kick, every time he sent Logan flying he was bodily tossing him.

And, again, that's ignoring the fact that, in volume 2, a sober Drax soaked up more damage than what Ronan dished out in their fight, and literally laughed it off.

Ceilings on a two story houses are not thin drywall, they are load bearing walls and ceilings and floors. Lets not play games.

Not ignoring Drax feats, but he was no way to put Juggs down. Juggs would laugh at most of his hits, much like Ronin did.

Where did I say they were thin drywall? I said that they were wood covered by drywall, which, again, is visibly shown during the scene. It's perfectly possible to build a multi-storey house out of wood.

And I literally said that Drax cannot put Juggernaut down in my first post, so not sure what you are getting at. But, going by Drax's more recent, sober durability feats, Juggernaut can't put him down either. Hence why I said stalemate.

Also, not trying to be a d***, but it's Ronan. Not Ronin.

Dude. Chill. Drax can tire, Juggs mutant ability wont let him tire. Juggs can outlast and beat him down. Thats all im saying. Btw I like Drax.

Originally posted by Sable
Dude. Chill. Drax can tire, Juggs mutant ability wont let him tire. Juggs can outlast and beat him down. Thats all im saying. Btw I like Drax.

I am perfectly chill. But if you misrepresent my statements and repeatedly get a character's name wrong, I am going to correct you.

And it is never once mentioned or shown that Fox Juggernaut's powers give him infinite stamina. His power is stated as unstoppable momentum. He's not his comic counterpart. Comic Juggs would have laughed at the metal restraints that held Fox Juggs in place. So, you have to prove via screenfeats that he can outlast Drax in a fight if you want to make that claim.

Crumbling APC trumps anything Ronan did.

Originally posted by KingD19
Crumbling APC trumps anything Ronan did.

He dented in a section of the hood when he jumped on it and then a section of roof (which broke the windscreen) when he launched himself off it. The vehicle was undamaged for the most part. And unless you think that Drax is going to lie there and wait for Juggs to step on him (after a considerable run-up), I fail to see the point of bringing it up. Ronan's actual striking feats are better. And, again, the Ronan showing is a low-end for Drax compared to other durability feats.

I mean, sure, if we use a low-end scene where Drax was drunk, then Juggernaut can win. But if we take the most current, sober Drax (which is what is normally the case in these matches, unless stated otherwise in the OP), then it's a different story.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am perfectly chill. But if you misrepresent my statements and repeatedly get a character's name wrong, I am going to correct you.

And it is never once mentioned or shown that Fox Juggernaut's powers give him infinite stamina. His power is stated as unstoppable momentum. He's not his comic counterpart. Comic Juggs would have laughed at the metal restraints that held Fox Juggs in place. So, you have to prove via screenfeats that he can outlast Drax in a fight if you want to make that claim.

It was, "once he gains momentum, he cant be stopped." That means once hes moving, nothing is stopping him. I never claimed he was as strong as the comics. Per his defined powerset in the movie, if hes moving, he isnt being stopped. I have a hard time believing Drax could just run throgh solid concret walls like they were paper.

Originally posted by Sable
It was, "once he gains momentum, he cant be stopped." That means once hes moving, nothing is stopping him. I never claimed he was as strong as the comics. Per his defined powerset in the movie, if hes moving, he isnt being stopped. I have a hard time believing Drax could just run throgh solid concret walls like they were paper.

Having unstoppable momentum does not equal having infinite stamina. Just because something else can't stop him once he starts moving does not mean he can't tire out from continuous exertion. I also didn't say you did. My point was that things we take for granted with comic Juggs (like insane strength, and limitless stamina, for example) are not necessarily true for the Fox mutant version.

And no one said that Drax can replicate the wall run, or that Drax is even as strong as Juggernaut. But Drax has disproportionately high durability compared to his current onscreen strength showings.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
He dented in a section of the hood when he jumped on it and then a section of roof (which broke the windscreen) when he launched himself off it. The vehicle was undamaged for the most part. And unless you think that Drax is going to lie there and wait for Juggs to step on him (after a considerable run-up), I fail to see the point of bringing it up. Ronan's actual striking feats are better. And, again, the Ronan showing is a low-end for Drax compared to other durability feats.

I mean, sure, if we use a low-end scene where Drax was drunk, then Juggernaut can win. But if we take the most current, sober Drax (which is what is normally the case in these matches, unless stated otherwise in the OP), then it's a different story.

King has always massively overhyped the APC feat.

Drax stomps that ass.

Juggy wins. Movie Drax is Crap.

I'm probably going to get some hate for this, but I thought that neither were good. Both are basically underpowered joke characters compared to their comic counterparts.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I'm probably going to get some hate for this, but I thought that neither were good. Both are basically underpowered joke characters compared to their comic counterparts.

Infinity War is going to have to do some serious amping to get Drax to Thanos heart-rip fatality material.

Juggernaut could be the worse comic-to-screen adaptation of a comic book character with the exception of FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer Galactus.

As for the battle, I'll lean towards Drax, but I'm really not for sure. Drax laughing off the shuttle crash should put him over the edge for a win, but Juggs was never hurt by a h2h or melee attack. Storm's lighting channeled through Logan's claws put him down, as did ramming a wall after Leech negated his powers. However, we never got to see what a Colossus-type mutant could do against Juggs, as Wolverine was his only h2h match-up.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Juggernaut could be the worse comic-to-screen adaptation of a comic book character with the exception of FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer Galactus.

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Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
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Can't pull up the video man.

Who you got? Halle Berry's Catwoman?

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Can't pull up the video man.

Who you got? Halle Berry's Catwoman?

1997 Live-action Justice League. It's terrible.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
1997 Live-action Justice League. It's terrible.

Wow, a deep cut. And yes, it's horrid.