Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who is it?

http://i66.tinypic.com/2z4lgz5.jpg
picture for entertainment purposes only

Black Adam .

That same vampire, Superman said she was too fast for him.

Porcelain.

Siegfried and/or Roy.

Electro Chemical Aura? So Byrne era Superman.... hmm Ghost Rider would have a shot.

Living tribunal knows magic.

He can beat supes 1 out of 1000 on a good day. If supes didnt sleep or have coffee.

Too many to list.

Originally posted by JBL
Too many to list.

Should probably list the weakEST then. There should only be one lol.

Originally posted by carver9
That same vampire, Superman said she was too fast for him. But carver, superman can fight a light speed and beyond, rao said so. We must not believe what's in the comics ( he's never done it in his career) we should trust rao's fairytale version of superman.

The Wizard Shazam could take a few wins with prep

Originally posted by JBL
But carver, superman can fight a light speed and beyond, rao said so. We must not believe what's in the comics ( he's never done it in his career) we should trust rao's fairytale version of superman.

THIS... is the definition of "being butthurt".

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Should probably list the weakEST then. There should only be one lol. Of all of them, name the weakest?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
THIS... is the definition of "being butthurt".

No. It's one superman fan defending another by responding to my post. That's the definition of butthurt😅

Originally posted by JBL
Of all of them, name the weakest?

That's.....what the thread is asking, yes

David Copperfield

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's.....what the thread is asking, yes I'm asking you to name the weakest out of all of them. Then when you try, other posters will name a weaker one. There is no end to this. Some will name very powerful characters( superman fans) some will name weaker characters. Get it now?

Originally posted by JBL
I'm asking you to name the weakest out of all of them. Then when you try, other posters will name a weaker one. There is no end to this. Some will name very powerful characters( superman fans) some will name weaker characters. Get it now?

You think there are an infinite number of magical characters in comics?

We'll run out of them pretty soon, lol.

Off the top of your head, name twenty. Just twenty. Who can beat Supes.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You think there are an infinite number of magical characters in comics?

We'll run out of them pretty soon, lol.

Off the top of your head, name twenty. Just twenty. Who can beat Supes. Still don't get it huh? I can name 50 and superman fans will dispute them until the end of time.

Originally posted by JBL
Still don't get it huh? I can name 50 and superman fans will dispute them until the end of time.

Ok, then go for it. 50 magic users who can beat him. Ignore the Superfans.

I'm really curious. PM the list to me if you're afraid they'll all descend on you.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
THIS... is the definition of "being butthurt".

Some one might need this.

http://cdn.pophangover.com/wp-content/uploads/butthurt.jpg

Thanks for proving my point you two superman fans. Lol. Never stop defending each other😘

Ha. Ignore them JBL.

Don't use them as an excuse to back off; if you really think there are 50magic users out there, I'd like to see them. Then we can prob see which of them is the weakest.

Originally posted by JBL
Thanks for proving my point you two superman fans. Lol. Never stop defending each other😘

All you do is bash SM and his fans. You barely post in any other thread besides SM threads, and all you do is bash and troll. You never grumble about marvel fans doing the same thing for their favorite characters. And if you think Marvel fans don't, then you are lying to yourself.

Superman fans are the most psychotic on the site though, bar none.
Start a Supes thread in good faith and it'll usually turn into...this.

Was hoping for more examples, but thanks any way.

I could give the examples but:

1.- They will be taken out of context and use to troll
2.- You pretty much fall into the troll category as well, not all the time but you do it as if you don't like the scans and evidence provided to you and for some reason get all worked out for something that WE didn't wrote nor publish, we are just giving the 411 to everyone.
3.- Your example at the OP will be basically one of the lowest you will find and it was under Byrne era Superman. Love the story btw and I like the vampire character.

I could and have had this kind of discussions with Delta btw

Atlas dc character gave Supes big problems.

Originally posted by riv6672
Superman fans are the most psychotic on the site though, bar none.
Start a Supes thread in good faith and it'll usually turn into...this.


I disagree. Hulk fans can get pretty militant as well as wolverine fans. But it's ok, I'm not the one complaining about the fans, am I? I also don't go into threads and trash peoples opinions. My comment was directed at LBJ, not the fans of any particular character.

As for the thread, Sm seems to show varying degrees of magic weakness/resistance. I was hoping to hear some good arguments about the topic, not the fans.

Originally posted by riv6672
Superman fans are the most psychotic on the site though, bar none.
Start a Supes thread in good faith and it'll usually turn into...this.

Was hoping for more examples, but thanks any way.



The worst.

Originally posted by Faceless808
I disagree. Hulk fans can get pretty militant as well as wolverine fans. But it's ok, I'm not the one complaining about the fans, am I? I also don't go into threads and trash peoples opinions. My comment was directed at LBJ, not the fans of any particular character.

As for the thread, Sm seems to show varying degrees of magic weakness/resistance. I was hoping to hear some good arguments about the topic, not the fans.

Which threads are you talking about because Superman fans are the most overly aggressive people on the site.

Originally posted by carver9
Which threads are you talking about because Superman fans are the most overly aggressive people on the site.

Originally posted by riv6672
Superman fans are the most psychotic on the site though, bar none.
Start a Supes thread in good faith and it'll usually turn into...this.

Was hoping for more examples, but thanks any way.

My friend, you should see the anime forums.

Dragon Ball fans in particular were insane before Goku "shook the universe", but now they seriously argue Goku one shots Galactus or classic Odin..

Originally posted by carver9
Which threads are you talking about because Superman fans are the most overly aggressive people on the site.

LOL, Carver, don't worry, I'm not gonna call you out by name.

Every good superhero has fans. I'm not criticizing any of them. I'm just saying there's fanatical fans for many, not just Superman. I'm not even a big Sm fan myself. But you gotta admit you are a Hulk superfan. And that's fine with me. My beef are the guys that appear in specific threads just to bash the character/fans. If you don't like a character, don't read the threads. Don't attack the guys who do.

Originally posted by Faceless808
LOL, Carver, don't worry, I'm not gonna call you out by name.

Every good superhero has fans. I'm not criticizing any of them. I'm just saying there's fanatical fans for many, not just Superman. I'm not even a big Sm fan myself. But you gotta admit you are a Hulk superfan. And that's fine with me. My beef are the guys that appear in specific threads just to bash the character/fans. If you don't like a character, don't read the threads. Don't attack the guys who do.

I am a Hulk fan but the difference between me and what I said in my previous response is, I don't bash anyone who have a different opinion than me and I don't try to force someone to vote for a character that obviously can't win every match. That's the difference. Being a fan isn't the problem. It's when you bash people for having their own opinion about a character. I or any other Hulk fan does not do this.

Originally posted by carver9
I am a Hulk fan but the difference between me and what I said in my previous response is, I don't bash anyone who have a different opinion than me and I don't try to force someone to vote for a character that obviously can't win every match. That's the difference. Being a fan isn't the problem. It's when you bash people for having their own opinion about a character. I or any other Hulk fan does not do this.


That's what I said, buddy. But Superman fans aren't the only fanatics here. Also, I never singled you out as being one of the bashers. But I have seen you "join sides" with the bashers, when it suits you. Specifically against Abhi. But I'm not trying to attack you or defend Abhi. I'm just saying, singling out Superman fans is just wrong and uncalled for.

BTW, you are NOT a casual Hulk fan. You are a Hulk superfan. nothing wrong with that. I also believe you are a WonderWoman superfan, too. Nothing wrong with that, either. But at least it shows me that you are open to both companies. Not just a die hard Marvel fan or a militant DC fan, which, I think, is the real cause of the bashing.

Superman fanboys are the worst, superman fans are normal like the rest.

That said, I've run into a Hulk fanboy or two that weren't much better.

Originally posted by cdtm
My friend, you should see the anime forums.

Dragon Ball fans in particular were insane before Goku "shook the universe", but now they seriously argue Goku one shots Galactus or classic Odin..
Been there done that.
Its why i detest anime, the DBZ fans i ran across when i first started posting at Wizard World in 2000.
They argued Goku could beat God.
Not a cartoon or comics representation, the one from the bible.

https://media.tenor.com/images/4d1e07cfa413b50b6519d7c490fe8754/tenor.gif

lol @ anyone claiming moral superiority. Fanboys of most characters are as bad as each other, and the haters that go into every thread just to ***** about the character they hate are just as bad as the fanboys.

Aquaman fans are the worst anyways.

As far as the current examples, I think prepped Shazam is the most serious answer.

Originally posted by Bentley
Aquaman fans are the worst anyways.

As far as the current examples, I think prepped Shazam is the most serious answer.

You used the word "fans" as if to imply that there's more than one.

I guess you're right, the only one I know is Namorsubby

Originally posted by Damborgson
Superman fanboys are the worst, superman fans are normal like the rest.

That said, I've run into a Hulk fanboy or two that weren't much better.

Agreed

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol @ anyone claiming moral superiority. Fanboys of most characters are as bad as each other, and the haters that go into every thread just to ***** about the character they hate are just as bad as the fanboys.


I guesse I could have just said it like that!! LOL!

But you'd be wrong too, then.

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol @ anyone claiming moral superiority. Fanboys of most characters are as bad as each other, and the haters that go into every thread just to ***** about the character they hate are just as bad as the fanboys. Nah Wolverine and Superman fanboys are without a doubt the worst.

Subhuman filth that shouldn't be allowed the walk the earth.

People, people, let's stop this off-topic talk right now and get the thread back on point.

Namely...where the hell is the list of 50 characters that was promised a few pages back?

I'm waiting...

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol @ anyone claiming moral superiority. Fanboys of most characters are as bad as each other, and the haters that go into every thread just to ***** about the character they hate are just as bad as the fanboys.

Hulk and Storm both tend to attract a special kind of retard though.

Originally posted by wuleecat
People, people, let's stop this off-topic talk right now and get the thread back on point.

Namely...where the hell is the list of 50 characters that was promised a few pages back?

I'm waiting...

If only.

Originally posted by Mindset
Nah Wolverine and Superman fanboys are without a doubt the worst.

Subhuman filth that shouldn't be allowed the walk the earth.

You can add Hulk to that list, and if we're including boards outside of KMC, there are a few others I could mention.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Hulk and Storm both tend to attract a special kind of retard though.

Yeah, Storm got pretty bad back in the day.

We all have our hangups and sweethearts but the fukn Storm fanboys man, hahaha.

It would take atleast and herald class user to beat Clark for the majority. Characters on Superman's class always struggles with everyday villains for plot sake, but the second they take you seriously, it's over pretty quickly.

Originally posted by wuleecat
People, people, let's stop this off-topic talk right now and get the thread back on point.

Namely...where the hell is the list of 50 characters that was promised a few pages back?

I'm waiting...

As am I.

Ignore the fanboys, JBL!

He's trimming down infinity.

That takes a while.

I was reading Superman 421, and he tanked cigar missiles from the 5D imp cousin
Nzykmulk of Mister Mxyzptlk right in the chest (Mxy said he was stronger than him). Anything less than a 5D imp??

Originally posted by tkitna
David Copperfield

I'm actually genuinely curious about this now myself.

IS it possible to list 50?


I'll begin. We can add names, omit names, and re-order as necessary:



1. Doctor Strange. Marvel Comics.
2. Shazam Wizard. DC Comics.
3. Loki. Marvel Comics.
4. King Thor. Marvel Comics.
5. Enchantress. DC Comics. (June Munro)
6. Enchantress. Marvel Comics. (Asgardian sorceress, Amora)
7. Doctor Doom. Marvel Comics.
8. Zatanna. DC Comics.
9. Dark Orko. Masters of the Universe. (I can't remember whether DC or Marvel produced these comics; Galan might know.)
10. Scarlet Witch. Marvel Comics.

11. Circe. DC Comics. (Wonder Woman villain)
12. Zeus. Marvel Comics.
13. Zeus. DC Comics.
14. Cheetah. DC Comics. (Wonder Woman villain, Barbara Minerva)
15. Cheetah. DC Comics. (Wonder Woman villain, Sebastian Ballesteros)

I'd add Snowbird, Talisman (from Marvel), Dr Fate (DC), Odin...but those are all pretty high end. I guess we'd then pick the lowest out of all of them, which currently is...Loki,maybe?

But let's get that lost out first.

Cheetah. DC Comics. (Wonder Woman villain, Barbara Minerva)
Cheetah. DC Comics. (Wonder Woman villain, Sebastian Ballesteros)
Circe. DC Comics. (Wonder Woman villain)
Dark Orko. DC Comics (?). Masters of the Universe
Doctor Doom. Marvel Comics.

Doctor Fate. DC Comics.
Odin. Marvel Comics.
Doctor Strange. Marvel Comics.
Enchantress. DC Comics. (June Munro)
Enchantress. Marvel Comics. (Asgardian sorceress, Amora)

King Thor. Marvel Comics.
Loki. Marvel Comics.
Mxyzptlk. DC Comics.
Scarlet Witch. Marvel Comics.
Shazam Wizard. DC Comics.

Snowbird. Marvel Comics.
Talisman. Marvel Comics.
Zatanna. DC Comics.
Zeus. Marvel Comics.
Zeus. DC Comics.

Whoa, nice! Going the extra mile.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
As am I.

Ignore the fanboys, JBL! Ok, here's my answer so that a 5 year old can understand... If I say that I could name 20,50 or 100 million characters that could beat Superman and his fans will oppose every last character I name, that does NOT mean I'm going to name that many. Remember the 100 thousand daxamites crap?

Originally posted by JBL
Ok, here's my answer so that a 5 year old can understand... If I say that I could name 20,50 or 100 million characters that could beat Superman and his fans will oppose every last character I name, that does NOT mean I'm going to name that many. Remember the 100 thousand daxamites craps?

That's because you can't, I suspect.

I offered you to PM them to me,and I would NOT share that list with anyone. So no fan would oppose it.

Or I can ask Pr (with permission from said fans) to temp ban any fan that tries to oppose every character you name.

Magic Scarlett Witch ain't beating Kal though. Neither is Doctor Doom.

(If Kang knew magic he would win though )

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's because you can't, I suspect.

I offered you to PM them to me,and I would NOT share that list with anyone. So no fan would oppose it.

Or I can ask Pr (with permission from said fans) to temp ban any fan that tries to oppose every character you name. Wow! Just wow. Ok, here's the 3 year old version. JBL, go buy the wittle baby 2 dill pickles... Really lady? He's not going to eat them, I could buy him 50 dill pickles and he still wont change his mind. There is a 1 year old version if you need it.

Ahh I get it, you were using hyperbole.

And to use your analogy:

'How many pickles can the ickle baby eat?'

'way too many. An infinite amount. But his mom won't allow it's

'really? I never knew babies liked pickles'

'oh yeah, he could even eat 100s of them. Hell, 1000s of them! But no, I can't feed them, because his mom won't allow it. But you should totally believe me when I say 1000s!!!'

pure gold pickles

Here's an older version for ya JBL:

Darksaint: Man, I'm so tired. I've been sleeping with this Victoria's Secret model, and she's been wearing me out!!

JBL: hahaha wut? You sleep with models? GTFO

DS: oh yeah, in fact, I've slept with dozens of them! But yeah, I can't name them. NDAs, you know? But man, I could name five, six, ten of them! But I don't want the aggro you know?

JBL:. Ha wut? Delusional. Name them then

DS: Nah, people wouldn't believe me, and I'd just get aggro. But yeah, there are LOADS of models, too many to name!

Could be done with DC writer friends? crylaugh0

OK, enough, is not OK to make fun of the mentally challenged, I must apologise... kinda

I propose that from now on JBL should be known as Mr. Pickles!

On topic I'd say one of the weakest magic user that "can" beat Supes would be Dr Occult. Je wouldnt take a majority and it would be. Alow 3 or 4 out of 10 but he deffinitely could take some wins.

Now Occult has a hac talisman but isnt really all that powerful. He's around Constantine level.

Which brings me to another that can take a win or 4

Pickles...Victoria's Secret models...it's all just pure comedy gold.

I can totally name them. They totally did get some good DS loving.

But I won't.

But it's totally true.

Originally posted by Bentley
(If Kang knew magic he would win though ) https://s17.postimg.org/b2k5x6jdb/Bentley.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here's an older version for ya JBL:

Darksaint: Man, I'm so tired. I've been sleeping with this Victoria's Secret model, and she's been wearing me out!!

JBL: hahaha wut? You sleep with models? GTFO

DS: oh yeah, in fact, I've slept with dozens of them! But yeah, I can't name them. NDAs, you know? But man, I could name five, six, ten of them! But I don't want the aggro you know?

JBL:. Ha wut? Delusional. Name them then

DS: Nah, people wouldn't believe me, and I'd just get aggro. But yeah, there are LOADS of models, too many to name!

Dr Druid

Originally posted by beatboks
On topic I'd say one of the weakest magic user that "can" beat Supes would be Dr Occult. Je wouldnt take a majority and it would be. Alow 3 or 4 out of 10 but he deffinitely could take some wins.

Now Occult has a hac talisman but isnt really all that powerful. He's around Constantine level.

Which brings me to another that can take a win or 4
Thanks, man.

Then we can whittle that down to who can beat Supes.

Then whittle THAT down to the weakest.

The list obtained from Googling
"Marvel Comics magic users" ...


Adria (comics)
Abdul Alhazred (comics)
Amatsu-Mikaboshi (comics)
Ancient One
Arabian Knight (comics)

Eli Bard
Belasco (Marvel Comics)
Black Knight (Dane Whitman)
Black Raazer
Black Talon (comics)
Black Widow (Claire Voyant)
Black Widow (Marvel Comics)
Elsa Bloodstone
Ulysses Bloodstone
Brother Voodoo
Brothers Grimm (comics)

Calypso (comics)
Captain Britain
Cat People (comics)
Centurious
Chondu the Mystic
Clea
Crimson Curse

Dakimh the Enchanter
Devil-Slayer
Diablo (Marvel Comics)
Dionysus (Marvel Comics)
Dire Wraith
Doctor Strange
Doom 2099
Doctor Doom
Dormammu
Doctor Druid

Enchantress (Marvel Comics)

Feron
Forge (comics)

Kulan Gath

Agatha Harkness
Hela (comics)
Daimon Hellstrom
Hybrid (Jimmy Marks)

Junzo Muto

Jennifer Kale
Kaluu
Karnilla
Master Khan
Krugarr

Lilith (Marvel Comics)
Lionheart (comics)
Llan the Sorcerer
Loki (comics)
Lorelei (Asgardian)
Lunatik

Magik (comics)
Magique
Malekith the Accursed
Margali Szardos
Master Pandemonium
Merlin (Marvel Comics)
Merlyn (Marvel Comics)
Nico Minoru
Mister Jip
Modred the Mystic
Mojo (comics)
Moondark
Baron Mordo
Morgan le Fay (Marvel Comics)

N'Kantu, the Living Mummy
Naga (Marvel Comics)
Necrom
Nekra
Nemesis (Alpha Flight)

Pestilence (comics)
Pixie (X-Men)

Rintrah (comics)
Roma (comics)

Salem's Seven
Satana (Marvel Comics)
Saul (comics)
Scarlet Witch
Nicholas Scratch
Amanda Sefton
Selene (comics)
Shaman (comics)
Sise-Neg
Spider-X
Spiral (comics)
Stygyro

Tai (comics)
Talisman (Alpha Flight)
Talon (Marvel Comics)
Tiboro
Tigra
Topaz (Marvel Comics)

Umar (Marvel Comics)
Urthona (comics)

Wiccan (comics)
Witches (Marvel Comics)
Witchfire (Marvel Comics)

Zaladane
Zeus (Marvel Comics)

Riv, it'd be helpful, late though it is now, for you to clarify what you mean by "CAN beat Superman". You seemed to be accepting 30% odds a few posts ago, the list I was compiling BEFORE I used these 2 Wikipedia lists are individuals who have either been SHOWN beating Superman (i.e. Cheetah Ballesteros), or individuals who leave little doubt in anyone's mind (i.e. Doctor Strange) that their spells would take Superman down or out if the need arose.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Riv, it'd be helpful, late though it is now, for you to clarify what you mean by "CAN beat Superman". You seemed to be accepting 30% odds a few posts ago, the list I was compiling BEFORE I used these 2 Wikipedia lists are individuals who have either been SHOWN beating Superman (i.e. Cheetah Ballesteros), or individuals who leave little doubt in anyone's mind (i.e. Doctor Strange) that their spells would take Superman down or out if the need arose.
I was just hoping posters'd use what characters have been shown to do, and say hey, imo, this guy isnt all that powerful as far as magic users go, but he can get a win over Supes with the eldritch equivalent of a good shot to the jaw.

I'm really not trying to overthink this, and can pretty much tell who's posting honest answers, knowing the posters here.
So thanks for all the input, it IS appreciated.

That sig

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/user_sigs/6/4/customsig_145964_cm.gif

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar145964_79.gif

......

The Magic user can attack first? Maybe someone who could conjure kriptonite?

David Blaine ?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
The list obtained from Googling
"Marvel Comics magic users" ...


Adria (comics)
Abdul Alhazred (comics)
Amatsu-Mikaboshi (comics)
Ancient One
Arabian Knight (comics)

Eli Bard
Belasco (Marvel Comics)
Black Knight (Dane Whitman)
Black Raazer
Black Talon (comics)
Black Widow (Claire Voyant)
Black Widow (Marvel Comics)
Elsa Bloodstone
Ulysses Bloodstone
Brother Voodoo
Brothers Grimm (comics)

Calypso (comics)
Captain Britain
Cat People (comics)
Centurious
Chondu the Mystic
Clea
Crimson Curse

Dakimh the Enchanter
Devil-Slayer
Diablo (Marvel Comics)
Dionysus (Marvel Comics)
Dire Wraith
Doctor Strange
Doom 2099
Doctor Doom
Dormammu
Doctor Druid

Enchantress (Marvel Comics)

Feron
Forge (comics)

Kulan Gath

Agatha Harkness
Hela (comics)
Daimon Hellstrom
Hybrid (Jimmy Marks)

Junzo Muto

Jennifer Kale
Kaluu
Karnilla
Master Khan
Krugarr

Lilith (Marvel Comics)
Lionheart (comics)
Llan the Sorcerer
Loki (comics)
Lorelei (Asgardian)
Lunatik

Magik (comics)
Magique
Malekith the Accursed
Margali Szardos
Master Pandemonium
Merlin (Marvel Comics)
Merlyn (Marvel Comics)
Nico Minoru
Mister Jip
Modred the Mystic
Mojo (comics)
Moondark
Baron Mordo
Morgan le Fay (Marvel Comics)

N'Kantu, the Living Mummy
Naga (Marvel Comics)
Necrom
Nekra
Nemesis (Alpha Flight)

Pestilence (comics)
Pixie (X-Men)

Rintrah (comics)
Roma (comics)

Salem's Seven
Satana (Marvel Comics)
Saul (comics)
Scarlet Witch
Nicholas Scratch
Amanda Sefton
Selene (comics)
Shaman (comics)
Sise-Neg
Spider-X
Spiral (comics)
Stygyro

Tai (comics)
Talisman (Alpha Flight)
Talon (Marvel Comics)
Tiboro
Tigra
Topaz (Marvel Comics)

Umar (Marvel Comics)
Urthona (comics)

Wiccan (comics)
Witches (Marvel Comics)
Witchfire (Marvel Comics)

Zaladane
Zeus (Marvel Comics) Yeah, DC list was 128 or more magic users. That's far more than 50. Some people need to do research before opening their mouths. But in superman fans defense, they probably didn't know such a alphabetical list existed or they don't know anything about DC except supermans rear.

That much salt can't be healthy.

Originally posted by JBL
Yeah, DC list was 128 or more magic users. That's far more than 50. Some people need to do research before opening their mouths. But in superman fans defense, they probably didn't know such a alphabetical list existed or they don't know anything about DC except supermans rear.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That much salt can't be healthy.

Threads like this never seem to work out right...but they always work.

Ok lets look at bluewaterriders DCU list and wittle it down to those who can actually take an occasional ein vs superman


Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld
Arion (comics)
Atlan (DC Comics)
Black Adam
Black Alice (comics)
Blaze and Satanus
Circe (comics)
John Constantine
Doctor Fate
Doctor Mist
Doctor Occult
Enchantress (DC Comics)
Felix Faust
Sebastian Faust
Geppetto (Fables)
Glorith
Hector Hall
Timothy Hunter
Ibis the Invincible
Ian Karkull
Kid Eternity
Klarion the Witch Boy
Kulak (DC Comics)
Morgaine le Fey (DC Comics)
Lord Satanis
Madame Xanadu
Maya (comics)
Merlin (DC Comics)
Papa Midnite
Mordru
Nebiros (DC Comics)
Neron (DC Comics)
Phantom Stranger
Poseidon (DC Comics)
Queen of Fables
Raven (comics)
Sargon the Sorcerer
Alan Scott
Shazam (wizard)
Spectre (character)
Jakeem Thunder
Johnny Thunder
White Witch (comics)
Wizard (DC Comics)
Wotan (comics)
Zatanna
Zatara
Zeus (DC Comics)

We've already gone from 123 down to 45.

21 of which are easily skyfather level and another 15 are mid to high herald.

This essentially brings down to 9 characters from DCU from mid meta to low herald level that we can draw the "weakest" from.

Consider that one of these (Arion) who under his own power (high meta) has a poor track record against Superman and has only had temorary wins when possessed by Mordru (skyfather) who adds to his own power. So most of these 9 at best are eeking out occasional wins only.

FTR the wiki list isnt completely comprehensive. Just for starters it omitts Arion's brother https://comicvine.gamespot.com/garn-daanuth/4005-56626/ as well as his mother Dark Majestra, and Father (both parents skyfathers his bro a high herald like him and hes been beaten by Supes) as well as several of his antagonists. Tjeres more but from a Single DCU title that means they missed 9 or so mystics.

^

Originally posted by beatboks
Ok lets look at bluewaterriders DCU list and wittle it down to those who can actually take an occasional ein vs superman


Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld
Arion (comics)
Atlan (DC Comics)
Black Adam
Black Alice (comics)
Blaze and Satanus
Circe (comics)
John Constantine
Doctor Fate
Doctor Mist
Doctor Occult
Enchantress (DC Comics)
Felix Faust
Sebastian Faust
Geppetto (Fables)
Glorith
Hector Hall
Timothy Hunter
Ibis the Invincible
Ian Karkull
Kid Eternity
Klarion the Witch Boy
Kulak (DC Comics)
Morgaine le Fey (DC Comics)
Lord Satanis
Madame Xanadu
Maya (comics)
Merlin (DC Comics)
Papa Midnite
Mordru
Nebiros (DC Comics)
Neron (DC Comics)
Phantom Stranger
Poseidon (DC Comics)
Queen of Fables
Raven (comics)
Sargon the Sorcerer
Alan Scott
Shazam (wizard)
Spectre (character)
Jakeem Thunder
Johnny Thunder
White Witch (comics)
Wizard (DC Comics)
Wotan (comics)
Zatanna
Zatara
Zeus (DC Comics)

We've already gone from 123 down to 45.

21 of which are easily skyfather level and another 15 are mid to high herald.

This essentially brings down to 9 characters from DCU from mid meta to low herald level that we can draw the "weakest" from.

Consider that one of these (Arion) who under his own power (high meta) has a poor track record against Superman and has only had temorary wins when possessed by Mordru (skyfather) who adds to his own power. So most of these 9 at best are eeking out occasional wins only.

FTR the wiki list isnt completely comprehensive. Just for starters it omitts Arion's brother https://comicvine.gamespot.com/garn-daanuth/4005-56626/ as well as his mother Dark Majestra, and Father (both parents skyfathers his bro a high herald like him and hes been beaten by Supes) as well as several of his antagonists. Tjeres more but from a Single DCU title that means they missed 9 or so mystics.
Interesting logic.
Better than a straight up dismissal at any rate.

Scarlett Witch with the right hex could. She's beaten Ultron...

Originally posted by riv6672
Interesting logic.
Better than a straight up dismissal at any rate.

Not sure exactly what you mean.
There is nothing to deny. Of course there are magic users that beat Superman it's been done, at least he has suffered temorary defeats and has been a part of a team that has been defeated (faust half a dozen times vs JLA, Wizard JLA/JSA team ups)

The likes of Kulak, Mordru, Amethyst, Nebiros, Neron, Spectre, Zeus, Queen of fables, White Witch and the two JT's would take a solid 10 out of 10 vs Supes(unless plot protected). Other omissions from the list like Nabu, Kismit, Chaon (and every other lord of order and Chaos not listed as only Amethyst, Shazam and Arion are) would also.

Then you have the likes of Hector, Dr Fate (sort of a duplication with hector), Circe, Tim Hunter, Wotan, Karkul, Klarion, Blaze, Satanus, Ibis, Morgane Le Fey and Merlin where arguments can be made for Superman taking an occasional win. All these in overall power level I would say are at or above Clark's level of power.

Then we have the Likes of Arion and Shazam who should fall in tje above 2 based on some feats but due to actual repeated encounters vs Clark where they have done poorly fall way short.

I'm simply trying to do what darksaint suggested and wityle the list down to identify the weakest that can win.

They don't have to be at Clark's level, they can be glass cannons. Could isn't would. It's like saying given a free shot could an 18 stone man who trains in boxing twice a week and lifts weights knock out a top fighter if he landed a clean shot on the golden inch. Yes, he has the power to beat them. Would he? Most of the time probably not.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
They don't have to be at Clark's level, they can be glass cannons. Could isn't would. It's like saying given a free shot could an 18 stone man who trains in boxing twice a week and lifts weights knock out a top fighter if he landed a clean shot on the golden inch. Yes, he has the power to beat them. Would he? Most of the time probably not.

If this is directed at my last post and how I said some listed are at or above Clark's level, that's not what I'm saying.
Those I listed are the ones I'm saying take majority most of the time. There are plenty there are others on a list that would definitely be below Clark who can take wins (a minority)and that's what the threat is asking.
Doctor Occult for example is nowhere near Superman in power, he is vastly below. He can easily be beaten by Batman or any street level character, but he has the potential to take 2 or 3 wins out of 10 against Superman. When it comes to fighting magical threats while being only a few rungs from the bottom he can and has fight/fought those at the top (purely because of the hax of his disk). Arion is also based on his broad history of feats a fee tiers below Superman. He jas feats on Superman's level but they involve either outside power or giving 120% and leaving nothing in the tank. He should (based on his higher feats ) take a few wins vs Superman but the actuality of it is he has had the opportunities and failed every time (he's made abiut 10 appearances in superman comics and failed to win every time. Superman has even succedded in breaking thru his magical shield around Atlantis)

Originally posted by beatboks
Not sure exactly what you mean.
There is nothing to deny. Of course there are magic users that beat Superman it's been done, at least he has suffered temorary defeats and has been a part of a team that has been defeated (faust half a dozen times vs JLA, Wizard JLA/JSA team ups)

The likes of Kulak, Mordru, Amethyst, Nebiros, Neron, Spectre, Zeus, Queen of fables, White Witch and the two JT's would take a solid 10 out of 10 vs Supes(unless plot protected). Other omissions from the list like Nabu, Kismit, Chaon (and every other lord of order and Chaos not listed as only Amethyst, Shazam and Arion are) would also.

Then you have the likes of Hector, Dr Fate (sort of a duplication with hector), Circe, Tim Hunter, Wotan, Karkul, Klarion, Blaze, Satanus, Ibis, Morgane Le Fey and Merlin where arguments can be made for Superman taking an occasional win. All these in overall power level I would say are at or above Clark's level of power.

Then we have the Likes of Arion and Shazam who should fall in tje above 2 based on some feats but due to actual repeated encounters vs Clark where they have done poorly fall way short.

I'm simply trying to do what darksaint suggested and wityle the list down to identify the weakest that can win.
I meant it as a compliment.
You put in good work, and didnt just go 'so and so's a jobber'.

Originally posted by beatboks
I'm simply trying to do what darksaint suggested and wityle the list down to identify the weakest that can win.

This moves the thread along much quicker. Kudos.

And tbh, you're probably the premier magic DC expert these days. Of course, we can all name Mxy, Odin, Zeus etc, but that's not the weakest.

^^^Yeah thats about the opposite of weakest.
Goes right back to
Originally posted by JBL
I'm asking you to name the weakest out of all of them. Then when you try, other posters will name a weaker one. There is no end to this. Some will name very powerful characters( superman fans) some will name weaker characters. Get it now?

So it looks like we've established "could win" as an amateur puncher's chance in a pro bout.

We've also got a reasonable "Who's who" of magic users in both the DC and the Marvel Universes.


We've yet to qualify how we're defining "weakest" now.

Is strength being measured by how strong the spell?
Or by how physically strong the person casting or protected by the magic is?


If the latter, my vote is for Gepetto, from DC "Fables".
Far from the kindly old man we know from Disney's "Pinocchio" fame, Gepetto in fables is THE number one adversary of the series, a ruler who has taken on armies and supernatural beings, and come out on top even after the passage of decades of people trying to topple him from power.

Yet except for extraordinary longevity, Gepetto is, ultimately, an old man. Likely comparable to an 80 year old. It is layered magic that protects him, not great physical strength. Only one I can think of who might be weaker is/was Agatha Harkness, and I didn't include her 'cause I'm not sure what her level of magic power was and I also think she's dead.

In fact my list of best contenders, at least as I type this in the wee hours of the morning, is as follows:


1. Gepetto, DC Comics Fables
2. Scarlet Witch, Marvel Comics Avengers
3. June Munro, DC Comics
4. Doctor Strange, Marvel Comics
5. Clea, Marvel Comics, other dimensional love interest of Doctor Strange

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Yeah thats about the opposite of weakest.
Goes right back to

Except we will then hit a limit whereby someone names a character, and we realise that THAT person is TOO weak.

So the person above them is....the weakest magic user who can defeat Supes.

But saying that the entire thread is useless because of what Superfans say is...weak.

I am personally enjoying this thread, and the honest answers given.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This moves the thread along much quicker. Kudos.

And tbh, you're probably the premier magic DC expert these days. Of course, we can all name Mxy, Odin, Zeus etc, but that's not the weakest.

I'll have a look at the Marvel list tomorrow.
Not quite as versed in Marvel magic as DC but as an old Defenders and Alpha Flight fan plus Hellstrom fanboy I do know quite a few.

Varies by era.

Superman's "magic weakness" isn't what it uses to be in the pre crisis era. He's outright tanked magic attacks from hell lords and such..

Oh if we break it down by era it gets even more confusing i think.

Originally posted by cdtm
Varies by era.

Superman's "magic weakness" isn't what it uses to be in the pre crisis era. He's outright tanked magic attacks from hell lords and such..


I am semi-interested in seeing this; generally in such cases, however, the trick is that the spells involve a "morality" clause of sorts. For instance, in League of One, there is a dragon whose flame burns anyone regardless of their level of superpower. Burns away at deceptions and lies and liars, if memory serves. But a campaigner who fights with a weapon that reveals the truth, tries to keep herself pure ...?
From what I understand Ghost Rider's highest level flames work like that, and there the clause is innocence or guilt. Goku has a "spirit bomb" or some such, and there "goodness" is the key.
(So Wonder Woman survives the dragon, Hulk survives Ghost Rider's hellfire, and I presume Gohan is the one who saw "Spirit Bomb" safely flow over him, in case anyone is wondering.)

That'd be a little different than the physics this thread is presuming.

So too would Apollo trying to incinerate Superman even with his most powerful standard blast. For under the pen of Azarello and whoever did the Superman/Wonder Woman comic of 2 or 3 years back, Apollo is in some literal way Earth's yellow sun, even as some contend Lucifer himself is/was the Sun God, the true brightest morning star, Helios, etcetera.
(How well do you think THAT turned out ...?)

Ok where the Marvel list is concerned


Ancient One
Black Knight (Dane Whitman)
Black Raazer
Brother Voodoo
Calypso (comics)
Clea
Doctor Strange
Doctor Doom
Dormammu
Doctor Druid
Enchantress (Marvel Comics)
Agatha Harkness (maybe)
Hela (comics)
Daimon Hellstrom
Lilith (Marvel Comics)
Llan the Sorcerer
Loki (comics)
Magik (comics)
Merlin (Marvel Comics)
Nico Minoru
Modred the Mystic
Baron Mordo
Morgan le Fay (Marvel Comics)

N'Kantu, the Living Mummy
Naga (Marvel Comics)
Necrom
Nekra
Nemesis (Alpha Flight)

Pestilence (comics)
Satana (Marvel Comics)
Scarlet Witch
Selene (comics)
Shaman (comics)
Sise-Neg
Talisman (Alpha Flight)
Umar (Marvel Comics)
Wiccan (comics)
Witchfire (Marvel Comics)
Zeus (Marvel Comics)

Are the 42 characters I see capable of taking a win (or wins).
The problem here is 13 of the names I took off i really sont know that well

I think Bluewaterrider's argument about Gepetto from Fables is a very good one, and fits the thread question well. Gepetto really was a doddery old dude living in a log cabin in the woods, but he had so many layers of magic and enchantments cast over him he was horrendously powerful in the Fables realm, almost omnipotent really. Even the Vorpal sword couldn't touch him, and that's the Fables equivalent of The Ultimate Nullifier.

^^^I took note of that one.
Its one i can use later on down the road i'm sure, which is why i occasionally make threads like this.
Once i sift through the BS replies, fanboys protecting their character replies, trying to be funny replies, cant let shit go from thread to thread replies, its surprising how much useful info i walk away with!

Black Knight is probabaly the weakest (in magic) from marvel. Sort of fits like Occult from DC. Not hugely poeerful but one hax weapon that takes a win where one wouldn't be possible.

If your talling physically weakest then not sure

Originally posted by beatboks
If this is directed at my last post and how I said some listed are at or above Clark's level, that's not what I'm saying.
Those I listed are the ones I'm saying take majority most of the time. There are plenty there are others on a list that would definitely be below Clark who can take wins (a minority)and that's what the threat is asking.
Doctor Occult for example is nowhere near Superman in power, he is vastly below. He can easily be beaten by Batman or any street level character, but he has the potential to take 2 or 3 wins out of 10 against Superman. When it comes to fighting magical threats while being only a few rungs from the bottom he can and has fight/fought those at the top (purely because of the hax of his disk). Arion is also based on his broad history of feats a fee tiers below Superman. He jas feats on Superman's level but they involve either outside power or giving 120% and leaving nothing in the tank. He should (based on his higher feats ) take a few wins vs Superman but the actuality of it is he has had the opportunities and failed every time (he's made abiut 10 appearances in superman comics and failed to win every time. Superman has even succedded in breaking thru his magical shield around Atlantis) No, it actually wasn't directed at your post, instead it was directed at the whole thread. "Can" isn't "will" in my opinion. If it has, who can beat him for a majority and I missed it, concession given freely.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
No, it actually wasn't directed at your post, instead it was directed at the whole thread. "Can" isn't "will" in my opinion. If it has, who can beat him for a majority and I missed it, concession given freely.

The fact that it said can is why I had aleays assumed it wasnt meant to be for a majority, but simply asking who the weakest magic user capable of taking a win or two out of ten from him. I haven't seem a simgle post on the thread that is talkimg a majority.

^^^you've gotten the gist of it since you started giving examples.

Originally posted by beatboks
Black Knight is probabaly the weakest (in magic) from marvel. Sort of fits like Occult from DC. Not hugely poeerful but one hax weapon that takes a win where one wouldn't be possible.

If your talling physically weakest then not sure
Thats pretty good.