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The Game of Thrones universe wants to take over ancient Greece, but in order to avoid massive bloodshed they decided to have their champions represent them in a duel. Ancient Greece sends Achilles. Which champion should the GOT universe send to fight him?

For the sake of fairness, all weapons are made indestructible for this match. No one is in armor, fighters are only in loincloths. Achilles is armed with his spear and shield and has his short sword as a sidearm.


Round 1: Which GOT fighter has the best chance at defeating Achilles? Fighter needs to be human (no giants, dragons or white walkers and stuff). GOT fighter is allowed any weapon/s as long as they can hold it in their 2 hands and is also allowed 1 carry-on side arm. Melee weapons only. No projectiles or poison or magical weapons. If you think Achilles can beat any single GOT champion then proceed to Round 2.

Round 2: Same stipulations as round 1 except you are allowed to name 2 GOT fighters to take on Achilles at the same time.

Round 3: Same stips as round 2 except now you have 3 GOT fighters.

Round 4: 4 GOT fighters

Oberyn probably has the best shot at taking out Achilles but I believe that Achilles strength would overtake Oberyn in the ned; it'd go alot like the fight with Hector tbh

Add the Mountain to this and I think them two could take Achilles out.

Really depends on if Brad Pitt is an Exec Producer or not lol

Originally posted by FrothByte
The Game of Thrones universe wants to take over ancient Greece, but in order to avoid massive bloodshed they decided to have their champions represent them in a duel. Ancient Greece sends Achilles. Which champion should the GOT universe send to fight him?

For the sake of fairness, all weapons are made indestructible for this match. No one is in armor, fighters are only in loincloths. Achilles is armed with his spear and shield and has his short sword as a sidearm.


Round 1: Which GOT fighter has the best chance at defeating Achilles? Fighter needs to be human (no giants, dragons or white walkers and stuff). GOT fighter is allowed any weapon/s as long as they can hold it in their 2 hands and is also allowed 1 carry-on side arm. Melee weapons only. No projectiles or poison or magical weapons. If you think Achilles can beat any single GOT champion then proceed to Round 2.

Round 2: Same stipulations as round 1 except you are allowed to name 2 GOT fighters to take on Achilles at the same time.

Round 3: Same stips as round 2 except now you have 3 GOT fighters.

Round 4: 4 GOT fighters

My name is Frothbyte, I can't come up with my own ideas, so I will try and copy someone else and try and add some variations in order to stroke my own ego.

I haven't seen Troy for like 10 years, but iirc Achilles was pretty ridiculous, and barring maybe the Mountain, almost everyone in GoT more or less seems to operate within human levels.

Achilles should be able to beat 3 or 4 of the main characters at once without a ton of trouble.

The Hound was as strong as the Mountain (matching him blow for blow, cutting men in full plate armor in half etc.) and faster to boot. He could do it.

Spite thread Achilles shit stomps

Originally posted by Psychotron
The Hound was as strong as the Mountain (matching him blow for blow, cutting men in full plate armor in half etc.) and faster to boot. He could do it.

You think it would be enough to overcome Achilles' speed and agility?

Its like you didnt watch Troy snd his first fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You think it would be enough to overcome Achilles' speed and agility?

No, but he does have actual armor. It won't be easy for Achilles to punch through plate.

I'm thinking Achilles could clear and claim Westeros as his land if he wanted to do as much. The fact that everyone is in loincloths gives him a big advantage, as he fights in light armor and a skirt and the big boys from GoT like Sandor and Gregor are in armor plate in their fights.

Unless some kind of team-up between Oberyn and/or Jaqen and some of the heavier hitters can throw Achilles off balance to get some good hacks in, Achilles should win this gauntlet.

Froth, where are they fighting? The more enclosed the space, the better chances for the GoT crew. The more open with platforms/ledges for Achilles to use his mobility, his chances go up.

People also under estimate how strong he is and how much endurance he has.

He ran up hill, on sand, engaging countless Trojans on the way, blocking all incoming arrows and attacks.

He also threw a spear farther then anyone at that time with deadly force. Which takes incredbile strength.

He not only has the strength to penetrate armor, but the speed never to even get hit.

Originally posted by Sable
People also under estimate how strong he is and how much endurance he has.

He ran up hill, on sand, engaging countless Trojans on the way, blocking all incoming arrows and attacks.

He also threw a spear farther then anyone at that time with deadly force. Which takes incredbile strength.

He not only has the strength to penetrate armor, but the speed never to even get hit.

Yep, one thing Troy did extremely well was showing just how much Achilles could go super soldier mode.

The problem with this matchup is that the GoT characters that have the reputation of being the heaviest hitters get one good fight in then get maimed or die (Jamie, Khal Drogo, and Oberyn), with the exception of people like Jon Snow, Hound, and Brienne of Tarth.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Froth, where are they fighting? The more enclosed the space, the better chances for the GoT crew. The more open with platforms/ledges for Achilles to use his mobility, his chances go up.

Just plain, open arena.

Originally posted by Psychotron
No, but he does have actual armor. It won't be easy for Achilles to punch through plate.

None of the combatants here have armor. As I stated in the OP, they're only in loincloths.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Just plain, open arena.

Game, set, match for Achilles. If he can keep maneuvering around his opponent(s), it's just a matter of time before he/she/they all get the Hector treatment.

Originally posted by FrothByte
None of the combatants here have armor. As I stated in the OP, they're only in loincloths.

Well, that's dumb. Every Westerosi knight is trained to fight with armor. They're not trained to fight like circus acrobats.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Well, that's dumb. Every Westerosi knight is trained to fight with armor. They're not trained to fight like circus acrobats.

Knights don't lose their fighting skill just because they're out of armor. A lot of the GOT fighters have fight scenes without armor on like Jamie and Jon for example.

Historically, knightly duels were done without armor.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Well, that's dumb. Every Westerosi knight is trained to fight with armor. They're not trained to fight like circus acrobats.

Dumb is what he does. And he does it well.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Knights don't lose their fighting skill just because they're out of armor. A lot of the GOT fighters have fight scenes without armor on like Jamie and Jon for example.

Historically, knightly duels were done without armor.

Yes, but they're specifically trained to fight with armor on. Taking it away gimps them hard.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Yes, but they're specifically trained to fight with armor on. Taking it away gimps them hard.

No, knights are trained to fight both in and out of armor. It would be completely stupid to train fighting men that couldn't fight without armor. And in fact, knightly duels were mostly done without armor, and this fight is basically a duel.

A modern-day soldier doesn't automatically forget how to shoot a gun if he's not wearing fatigues.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And in fact, knightly duels were mostly done without armor Based on what? My brief search yields nothing.

I'm not sure anybody in GoT could solo Achilles tbh

Achilles could kill the Mountain and the Hound within seconds of each other, he is just a baller.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, knights are trained to fight both in and out of armor. It would be completely stupid to train fighting men that couldn't fight without armor. And in fact, knightly duels were mostly done without armor, and this fight is basically a duel.

A modern-day soldier doesn't automatically forget how to shoot a gun if he's not wearing fatigues.

They can fight without armor, just not as good as they can fight with armor. I don't see why you have to gimp one side.

Originally posted by Psychotron
They can fight without armor, just not as good as they can fight with armor. I don't see why you have to gimp one side.

I beg to differ. They can fight even better without armor since they are less restricted. The only downside is they get killed faster. But as far as technique goes, they're definitely able to showcase more skill without armor.

I am not gimping one side. I am also removing Achilles's armor. And maybe to a Westerosi knight that won't mean much but to someone like Khal Drogo or Oberyn, Achilles's armor is still considered an advantage.

So all I'm really doing is making a fight fair. After all, if someone challenges you to an honorable duel, would you consider it honorable if he's wearing armor and you're wearing nothing but your boxers?

Don't be silly. Knights were trained to fight in armor so they could be used to the weight and restricted movement. Stripping them of their armor would make them slightly faster, but also far more vulnerable.

Anyway, under these stips nobody beats Achilles 1v1.

Jaqen rapes

Originally posted by Psychotron
Don't be silly. Knights were trained to fight in armor so they could be used to the weight and restricted movement. Stripping them of their armor would make them slightly faster, but also far more vulnerable.

Anyway, under these stips nobody beats Achilles 1v1.

Yes they were trained to fight in armor. They were also equally trained to fight without armor. Removing their armor is not "gimping" them when their opponent is equally without armor. That's called fighting fair.

And not that it matters here, but the fighting techniques for fighting with armor is actually very different from the fighting techniques used with armor. All that usual sword fighting that we see people doing in movies? That actually only applies to unarmored fighting. Armored fighting is done with polearms and maces. If you need to use a sword for armored fighting you reverse your grip on a sword and use it like a club, or you half sword it and just grapple the other knight. My point being: a knight's sword is mostly used for unarmored combat. So it's silly to think that they aren't equally trained outside of armor.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And not that it matters here, but the fighting techniques for fighting with armor is actually very different from the fighting techniques used with armor.

That's exactly my point. Knights are specialized into fighting with armor. If you wanna make this fair give them their armor and give Achilles his.

Originally posted by Psychotron
That's exactly my point. Knights are specialized into fighting with armor. If you wanna make this fair give them their armor and give Achilles his.

No they're not. Knights are specialized in fighting melee. Period. They specialize in fighting in armor just as much as they specialize in fighting without armor.

Just admit that what you are looking for here is some kind of technology advantage to give to the GOT team. That's not what this thread is about. This is to simulate an honorable duel where equipment is evened out.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No they're not. Knights are specialized in fighting melee. Period. They specialize in fighting in armor just as much as they specialize in fighting without armor.

Just admit that what you are looking for here is some kind of technology advantage to give to the GOT team. That's not what this thread is about. This is to simulate an honorable duel where equipment is evened out.

Mate, they're specialized in warfare, and they didn't go out into battle in their knickers.

I already said Achilles takes it under these stips.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Mate, they're specialized in warfare, and they didn't go out into battle in their knickers.

I already said Achilles takes it under these stips.

But this isn't a battle. This is a duel. And knights were trained and fought in duels almost always without armor.

Originally posted by FrothByte
But this isn't a battle. This is a duel. And knights were trained and fought in duels almost always without armor.

Get used to Psychotron being wrong while insisting he's right.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And knights were trained and fought in duels almost always without armor.

Read this. It's an account of the last officially recorded duel in France.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_Carrouges

Pay attention to this part here. You too, King.

"The combatants took the field in the early afternoon, mounted and dressed in plate armour. Both carried a lance, longsword, a heavy battle axe known as the 'Holy Trinity' and a long dagger called the 'misericordia'."

So yes, you are gimping the knights of Westeros.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Read this. It's an account of the last officially recorded duel in France.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_Carrouges

Pay attention to this part here. You too, King.

"The combatants took the field in the early afternoon, mounted and dressed in plate armour. Both carried a lance, longsword, a heavy battle axe known as the 'Holy Trinity' and a long dagger called the 'misericordia'."

So yes, you are gimping the knights of Westeros.

Like I said before, knightly duels were MOSTLY done unarmored. There were still armored duels, just that they were rare. So you finding one specific example of an armored duel doesn't really prove anything. Especially when it was a duel done at a time when judicial duels were no longer commonplace. Especially when the duel imvolved jousting whereas this match is specifically a melee match on the ground.

Here's some reading material to enlighten you:
http://jwma.ejmas.com/articles/2003/jwmaart_rasmusson_0603.htm

So no one is getting gimped in this match. You just need to admit you were wrong.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Like I said before, knightly duels were MOSTLY done unarmored. There were still armored duels, just that they were rare. So you finding one specific example of an armored duel doesn't really prove anything. Especially when it was a duel done at a time when judicial duels were no longer commonplace. Especially when the duel imvolved jousting whereas this match is specifically a melee match on the ground.

Here's some reading material to enlighten you:
http://jwma.ejmas.com/articles/2003/jwmaart_rasmusson_0603.htm

So no one is getting gimped in this match. You just need to admit you were wrong.

That's fencing, not duels to the death.

Originally posted by Psychotron
That's fencing, not duels to the death.

Did you even read the article. Those were duels to either first blood or to death, and everything in between. Also, "fencing" in the medieval ages could be done with longswords, sword and shield, polearms and whatever other weapons they had.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Did you even read the article. Those were duels to either first blood or to death, and everything in between. Also, "fencing" in the medieval ages could be done with longswords, sword and shield, polearms and whatever other weapons they had.

Cool, now tell me how does that relate to Westeros where every trial by combat we've seen has been fought by men in armor.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Cool, now tell me how does that relate to Westeros where every trial by combat we've seen has been fought by men in armor.

Not much, but then again this point was never much in relation to Westerosi knights in particular. You made a claim that knights (seemingly in general) were specialized to fight in armor. I was merely proving you wrong.

But if you want to bring this back in context for Westerosi knights in particular then I don't even need to prove anything, since they already have multiple scenes where westerosi fighters were fighting without armor. Jamie, Brienne, Jon Snow, The Hound, etc.

Even the Viper had far less armor on than Achilles does.

Like I said, no one is getting gimped in this fight. All combatants know how to fight without armor on.

Originally posted by Sable
My name is Frothbyte, I can't come up with my own ideas, so I will try and copy someone else and try and add some variations in order to stroke my own ego.
Your obsession with Froth has gone from amusing to pathetic now

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Your obsession with Froth has gone from amusing to pathetic now

I've had Sable on ignore for a few months now, but judging from the number of times he replies immediately after one of my posts I assume that he has continued to flame me even though I haven't replied to him for some time.

I'm not sure what ticked him off. I disagreed with him on a bunch of threads when he first joined and it seems to have gotten under his skin.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Not much, but then again this point was never much in relation to Westerosi knights in particular. You made a claim that knights (seemingly in general) were specialized to fight in armor. I was merely proving you wrong.

But if you want to bring this back in context for Westerosi knights in particular then I don't even need to prove anything, since they already have multiple scenes where westerosi fighters were fighting without armor. Jamie, Brienne, Jon Snow, The Hound, etc.

Even the Viper had far less armor on than Achilles does.

Like I said, no one is getting gimped in this fight. All combatants know how to fight without armor on.

We could argue about the real world history. I'm not convinced by a 19th century document, but that's not relevant.

Yes, of course they can fight without armor. They're just not as good without it. Let Achilles have his standard gear and let the GoT characters have theirs.

The Viper isn't a knight, he's a flippy homo that would get wasted in a real battle.

Originally posted by Psychotron
We could argue about the real world history. I'm not convinced by a 19th century document, but that's not relevant.

Yes, of course they can fight without armor. They're just not as good without it. Let Achilles have his standard gear and let the GoT characters have theirs.

The Viper isn't a knight, he's a flippy homo that would get wasted in a real battle.

A 19th century document (actually it's a 21st century document but whatever) that has medieval manuals as sources, listed in the footnotes if you cared to read them. It's way better evidence than any you presented.

If you want to claim that knights can't fight as good outside their armor then that's up to you to prove. Common sense dictates that only durability is increased when you have armor on. Fighting skill should be the same or even better without armor on.

The Viper is a noble and a warlord. And in case you haven't noticed, this thread is about the entire GOT universe, not just Westerosi knights in particular.

Originally posted by FrothByte
A 19th century document (actually it's a 21st century document but whatever) that has medieval manuals as sources, listed in the footnotes if you cared to read them. It's way better evidence than any you presented.

If you want to claim that knights can't fight as good outside their armor then that's up to you to prove. Common sense dictates that only durability is increased when you have armor on. Fighting skill should be the same or even better without armor on.

The Viper is a noble and a warlord. And in case you haven't noticed, this thread is about the entire GOT universe, not just Westerosi knights in particular.

I presented a historical fact, which is > a manual.

Yeah, durability is kind of important. Plate armor can no sell a sword, while human flesh cannot.

He's a homosex, who got the fate he deserved for being a cocky little shit. The Westerosi knights are the only ones who can put up a fight. All of that world's best fighters (Robert, Jamie, Selmy, Arthur, the Mountain, the Hound, Brienne, etc.) are Westerosi knights or nobles.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I presented a historical fact, which is > a manual.

Yeah, durability is kind of important. Plate armor can no sell a sword, while human flesh cannot.

He's a homosex, who got the fate he deserved for being a cocky little shit. The Westerosi knights are the only ones who can put up a fight. All of that world's best fighters (Robert, Jamie, Selmy, Arthur, the Mountain, the Hound, Brienne, etc.) are Westerosi knights or nobles.

You presented a written account of the last known knightly duel that was performed during a time when duels were no longer being done. I presented a written compilation of multiple historical documents stating how knightly duels were done at the height of their popularity.

Yes, durability is important, I never said otherwise. And being without armor will certainly lower your durability, but it will not lower your fighting skill which is what you seemed to imply. If you believe it does then you'll need to provide some proof of that assertion.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You presented a written account of the last known knightly duel that was performed during a time when duels were no longer being done. I presented a written compilation of multiple historical documents stating how knightly duels were done at the height of their popularity.

Yes, durability is important, I never said otherwise. And being without armor will certainly lower your durability, but it will not lower your fighting skill which is what you seemed to imply. If you believe it does then you'll need to provide some proof of that assertion.

What I saw was fencing mosly. And it's irrelevant here. Duels are fought in armor in Westeros.

Do I really need to explain why a character, who is used to fighting in armor, would be disadvantaged if he was forced to fight naked? You realize these guys are used to fighting with the mindset that they're almost immune to swords or glancing blows?

I didn't tell you to keep Achilles naked, just to give everyone their standard eqiupment. This is like putting a naked Battfleck against Marv. Yeah, they're both on equal terms, but Batffleck doesn't noramlly fight this way and he won't fight at optimal capacity.

Originally posted by Psychotron
What I saw was fencing mosly. And it's irrelevant here. Duels are fought in armor in Westeros.

Do I really need to explain why a character, who is used to fighting in armor, would be disadvantaged if he was forced to fight naked? You realize these guys are used to fighting with the mindset that they're almost immune to swords or glancing blows?

I didn't tell you to keep Achilles naked, just to give everyone their standard eqiupment. This is like putting a naked Battfleck against Marv. Yeah, they're both on equal terms, but Batffleck doesn't noramlly fight this way and he won't fight at optimal capacity.

Look dude, you're entitled to your opinions. But I seriously hope you don't think your opinion matters more than historical facts or GOT feats. Especially not when you don't even seem to know what "fencing" means or how it originated.

It's a fact that historically, knights were equally trained in armored and unarmored combat. Fact is that in GOT, we have multiple fighters who have fought in and out of armor without any apparent change in their skill. Fact is that you've already been proven wrong dozens of posts ago but you continue to drag this on simply because you have too much pride to admit you were wrong.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Look dude, you're entitled to your opinions. But I seriously hope you don't think your opinion matters more than historical facts or GOT feats. Especially not when you don't even seem to know what "fencing" means or how it originated.

It's a fact that historically, knights were equally trained in armored and unarmored combat. Fact is that in GOT, we have multiple fighters who have fought in and out of armor without any apparent change in their skill. Fact is that you've already been proven wrong dozens of posts ago but you continue to drag this on simply because you have too much pride to admit you were wrong.

How am I wrong? I already said the gimped GoT fighters would lose against Achilles under these stips.

Nice deflection btw. Keep bringing in real world history in a debate about fantasy.