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TCW Ahsoka. Who wins? The battle takes place on the moon of Drazkel.

I mean, obviously Luminara. One's a master, the other's a padawan.

Or you know, Luminara's done stuff, Katis lost to a featless version of maul who people are arting highly because he becomes something he wasn't at that point

As much as I don't like Ventress as a character; her personality, voice, design aesthetic (my mom went through chemotherapy when I was like 8, so since then the sight of a bald pale woman disturbs me on a subconscious level), the irritance of Ventress wank, the unearned forced sympathy for her character, Dark Disciple as a whole, etc. and as much of a badass I think Maul is, this largely featless pre-prime Maul is simply beneath Season 1 Ventress, so I'd have to say Luminara's fight with Ventress is significantly more impressive.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
As much as I don't like Ventress as a character; her personality, voice, design aesthetic (my mom went through chemotherapy when I was like 8, so since then the sight of a bald pale woman disturbs me on a subconscious level), the irritance of Ventress wank, the unearned forced sympathy for her character, Dark Disciple as a whole, etc. and as much of a badass I think Maul is, this largely featless pre-prime Maul is simply beneath Season 1 Ventress, so I'd have to say Luminara's fight with Ventress is significantly more impressive.

Same here tbh. In Legends it was shitty too, an acolyte from nowhere that became top 8 of the golden era of the Jedi all of a sudden just because... dunno. She really made the timeline seem fugged up with every darksider possible being above every Jedi possible sans 5-10 of them lol.

Originally posted by JKBart
Same here tbh. In Legends it was shitty too, an acolyte from nowhere that became top 8 of the golden era of the Jedi all of a sudden just because... dunno. She really made the timeline seem fugged up with every darksider possible being above every Jedi possible sans 5-10 of them lol.

Who?

I wish we could pin down when the Maul comic actually took place.

Edited to TCW Ahsoka.

Luminara.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Or you know, Luminara's done stuff, Katis lost to a featless version of maul who people are arting highly because he becomes something he wasn't at that point God, you're ****ing insufferable. Not at all surprised you're a Gemini.

Did you edit the title of this thread or TP Ant, DMB and myself?

Don't see why Ahsoka doesn't take this too. I mean Eldra is getting really pushed here when she only had one appearance. It seems kinda pointless really.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Who? Ventress, DMB's been talking about how her character pretty much sucks.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Don't see why Ahsoka doesn't take this too. I mean Eldra is getting really pushed here when she only had one appearance. It seems kinda pointless really.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Did you edit the title of this thread or TP Ant, DMB and myself? https://m.popkey.co/3f7fb2/wGY0N.gif

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Don't see why Ahsoka doesn't take this too. I mean Eldra is getting really pushed here when she only had one appearance. It seems kinda pointless really. I'm not pushing her, I'm seeing where people think she stands.

Look at it like this. Eldra gave a good fight to a Maul a few years prior to TPM while Ahsoka around a year after TCW gives a good fight to Maul in his prime. I guess it could be argued for Eldra but I'd give it to Ahsoka more often then not.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I'm not pushing her, I'm seeing where people think she stands.

I'd say she's around Dark Barriss's level in all honesty.

Well, we don't actually know how far before TPM the comic takes place. And the most Ahsoka did with Maul during the Clone Wars was bladelock him.

LMAO, Ahsoka stomps

One is a force to be reckoned with for and can hold her own against fcking grevious, the other gets beat by fcking kid maul.

Nevermind that even sod maul is Grevious's inferior with the blade comparing their performances against kenobi

Fair enough. Assuming this was basically TPM Maul then I'd put her a bit higher then Dark Barriss but still below Ahsoka.

Ahsoka still was able to contend with Maul in the novel and was falling back to lure him into the trap IIRC. Regardless, her ability to last against Grievous is more then enough for me to place her above Eldra.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Well, we don't actually know how far before TPM the comic takes place. And the most Ahsoka did with Maul during the Clone Wars was bladelock him.

Ahsoka held her own against maul's superior in grevious(by superior I mean with the blade)

Also, dark barriss isn't>Ahsoka

Aside from when offee makes use of an enviroment she planned for, they're fighting evenly with barriss going to hide and heck even getting driven back, and this is despite Ahsoka factually bbeing weaker with one blade.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Fair enough. Assuming this was basically TPM Maul then I'd put her a bit higher then Dark Barriss but still below Ahsoka.

Ahsoka still was able to contend with Maul in the novel and was falling back to lure him into the trap IIRC. Regardless, her ability to last against Grievous is more then enough for me to place her above. Literally all she did was bladelock him, so using the word contend is a bit generous. If this was basically TPM Maul though, I'd definitely say Eldra > Ahsoka. I couldn't see TCW Ahsoka doing that well against TPM Maul at all.

grevious would beat tpm maul hard

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Fair enough. Assuming this was basically TPM Maul then I'd put her a bit higher then Dark Barriss but still below Ahsoka.

Ahsoka still was able to contend with Maul in the novel and was falling back to lure him into the trap IIRC. Regardless, her ability to last against Grievous is more then enough for me to place her above.

I can't see it being basically TPM and have it make any sense, because then how is he able to fight both a Jedi Master and Padawan team in Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan? Yet he has difficulties with a Padawan?

Can't really see...Padawan > Jedi Master/Padawan duo as logical.

A date though would be appreciated...so hoping that comes out soon.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Literally all she did was bladelock him, so using the word contend is a bit generous. If this was basically TPM Maul though, I'd definitely say Eldra > Ahsoka. I couldn't see TCW Ahsoka doing that well against TPM Maul at all.

Eh. Lasting against Grievous > fighting well against TPM Maul imo.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
grevious would beat tpm maul hard

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I can't see it being basically TPM and have it make any sense, because then how is he able to fight both a Jedi Master and Padawan team in Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan? Yet he has difficulties with a Padawan?

Can't really see...Padawan > Jedi Master/Padawan duo as logical.

A date though would be appreciated...so hoping that comes out soon.

I agree.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Eh. Lasting against Grievous > fighting well against TPM Maul imo. Which reminds me, I hate how fcking overrated tpm Kenobi is

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I can't see it being basically TPM and have it make any sense, because then how is he able to fight both a Jedi Master and Padawan team in Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan? Yet he has difficulties with a Padawan?

Can't really see...Padawan > Jedi Master/Padawan duo as logical.

A date though would be appreciated...so hoping that comes out soon.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Which reminds me, I hate how fcking overrated tpm Kenobi is

He is?

Yea, apparently people assume that since he was "formidable" to maul in tpm he's da bomb, and then people decide it's fair game to use his feats 5 years post tpm and when he was amped against maul to make an argument.

But the besy is when his ability to sense stuff suddenly make shim more powerful than ppl who have actual fcking feats

You wrote a lot of stuff there, but none of it is remotely coherent.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You wrote a lot of stuff there, but none of it is remotely coherent.
Prolly seems that way when you can't read

I wonder: do you type on your phone without auto-correct on, or have you somehow only heard the English language once or twice in your life and you're going off a vague memory when you type?

I can't fathom how something like the above could ever be typed, proofread, and then sent thinking it's decently acceptable for public eyes.

I don't use my phone, and I don't really give enough of a fck here to care about grammar. As it is though, everyone else seems to be understanding me fine here, so I'll repeat:

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Prolly seems that way when you can't read

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I wonder: do you type on your phone without auto-correct on, or have you somehow only heard the English language once or twice in your life and you're going off a vague memory when you type?

I can't fathom how something like the above could ever be typed, proofread, and then sent thinking it's decently acceptable for public eyes. You likely never read my posts then

TCW Maul>Grievous. Maul drove back Kenobi pretty quickly in Season 5 in their duel, Grievous was beating and pressing S2 Kenobi.
That said, Eldra wrecks her. Maul is still an eight in canon, and one of the deadliest Sith apprentices in history.

I really doubt Maul is at the same level he was in TPM in the comic. Almost losing to a random Padawan should be proof enough, lmfao.

Food for thought, did maul actually legit beat katis?

I know he claimed superiority, but he admitted he underestimated her and only won by cheapshot

Eldra isn't "some random Padawan." If she can contend with one of the deadliest Sith apprentices in history that can form cyclones out of his blade and rip out Rathtar limbs, she's well above "Random Padawan" level.

She is a random Padawan though lol, and who knows if at that point Maul was actually the deadliest apprentice in history. And the other two feats aren't impressive to me at all, tbh.

She has a fantastic feat, yet she's still being treated as a "Random Padawan"? Please.

If this was actually ahalf-year before tpm, which I find highly dubious, then eldra could take it from edging out maul(unless maul demonstrated legit superiority at some point)

Originally posted by thesithmaster
TCW Maul>Grievous.

Nah. Not in sabers anyways.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
She has a fantastic feat, yet she's still being treated as a "Random Padawan"? Please.

Because we don't know if the feat is as fantastic as is being made out due to not knowing where in the timeline this event occurred.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Nah. Not in sabers anyways.

Why? I honestly find Maul superior. Grievous' performance against Windu is overrated, and Maul's was at least as good.

TCW Maul's inferior also has some insane saber feats- driving back Anoon Bondara, one of the Jedi's best fighters, and making Bondara admit inferiority to Maul in mere moments, stomping Komari Vosa while injured, wrecking Qui-Gon+TPM Kenobi. TCW Maul can do better than this by having "improved in all aspects."

TCW Maul also quickly drove Kenobi back in Season 5. The fight was inconclusive, but Maul was having superiority- yeah, Kenobi's a defensive fighter, but that doesn't mean he'll let himself be driven back, much less at such a fast pace.

TPM Maul vs Grievous saber-wise is even for me, TCW Maul vs Grievous goes to Maul.

Maul's occurred on a DS nexus and Grievous's was driving Windu back whilst hindered to a greater degree then his opponent and only using 2 blades which wouldn't halved his defensive and offensive output.

Which is great for Maul.

Which is great for Maul.

Grievous beats both in ok fights imo.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Maul's occurred on a DS nexus and Grievous's was driving Windu back whilst hindered to a greater degree then his opponent and only using 2 blades which wouldn't halved his defensive and offensive output.

Which is great for Maul.

Which is great for Maul.

Grievous beats both in ok fights imo.

Since when was the Mandalorian outpost a Dark Side nexus?

And Grievous wasn't driving Windu back. After a single exchange (meaning, after they clashed blades freaking once) Grievous analyzed Vaapad. As we saw in LoE, Mace made Grievous falter and ended the fight shortly after. Which means Grievous vs Windu was, at best, four or five lightsaber exchanges. Maul vs Windu and Secura, however, was longer, given SOD cuts a lot of things. There's a good blog about it on CV. Maul vs Windu lasted, like, twenty seconds. Which is better than Grievous vs Windu that was four or five strikes.

And Grievous was hindered, yeah, but Mace was too- he had to deeply call on the Force to stay atop the mag-lev which thus diverted power from his Augmentation and reserves. Grievous also isn't a fighter that abuses agility.

And using two blades isn't a hindrance for Grievous. He uses it often.

And you think Grievous beats Maul in good fights saber-wise or all-out?

Since when was the Mandalorian outpost a Dark Side nexus?

My mistake. I was misinformed about the location of the fight. Grievous's performance was still better.


And Grievous wasn't driving Windu back. After a single exchange (meaning, after they clashed blades freaking once) Grievous analyzed Vaapad. As we saw in LoE, Mace made Grievous falter and ended the fight shortly after. Which means Grievous vs Windu was, at best, four or five lightsaber exchanges. Maul vs Windu and Secura, however, was longer, given SOD cuts a lot of things. There's a good blog about it on CV. Maul vs Windu lasted, like, twenty seconds. Which is better than Grievous vs Windu that was four or five strikes.

First off, the text outright contradicts your version of events seeing as it's noted strikes were exchanged numerous times throughout the fight.

"Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long. Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries.

As Mace already knew from Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti, Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. He could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad - - the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled.

The loss of his confederates was noted by whatever computers were slaved to Grievous's organic brain, but the loss neither distracted nor slowed him. His sole setting was attack. Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts." - Labyrinth of Evil.

Secondly, the "single exchange" lasted as long as it took Fisto and his magnaguard opponents to make their way across the train car they were on top to its' other end since the text notes that all of the fight's participants were positioned at the same starting point. Unless you're suggesting Fisto and the magnaguards took off from a running start from their starting positions to the other side of the train car the exchange wasn't "a single clash of their lightsabers.

Mace, taking advantage of the conflict between Grievous's cybernetic and sentient mind, caused Grievous to falter in his "advance."

"Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary. Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance." - Labrynth of Evil.

Which means Grievous vs Windu was, at best, four or five lightsaber exchanges.

Well, I've already pointed out what such a stance is contradicted, but for curiosities sake, why did you think that?

Maul vs Windu and Secura, however, was longer, given SOD cuts a lot of things. There's a good blog about it on CV. Maul vs Windu lasted, like, twenty seconds.

Lmao. Because the comic "cuts a lot of things" it means their fight lasted an arbitrary length of time you decided on. In reality, it lasted as long as it took for Mace and Aayla to angle their blades and strike at Maul and for Maul to respond by blocking Mace's blade and simultaneously kick Aayla away. The fight ended in the next scan when the Mandalorians see what's happening and fire a rocket that ended the fight. Anything else is pure speculation on your part.

And Grievous was hindered, yeah, but Mace was too- he had to deeply call on the Force to stay atop the mag-lev which thus diverted power from his Augmentation and reserves. Grievous also isn't a fighter that abuses agility.

Grievous is noted to be hindered to a greater degree. Have you even read the fight?

"Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long." - Labyrinth of Evil.

Have you even watched the miniseries? Grievous is the very definition of a combatant that abuses his agility.

Note, the gifs I posted occur on the same day as his fight with Windu so any arguments you had detailing why Grievous at the time of his fight with Mace wouldn't fight like that are null.

And using two blades isn't a hindrance for Grievous. He uses it often.

Regardless of your opinion on the matter, using two blades halves the speed of his offensive and defensive output.

And you think Grievous beats Maul in good fights saber-wise or all-out?

Yes. Without too much fuss.

Sorry for the lack of formatting, but the format of your post confused me.
I said it was a single exchange because Mace said in the ROTS novel that it took one single exchange for Grievous to analyze Vaapad. Yeah, they clashed sabers a few times before. But it was just a few times. So, basically, they clashed six or seven times, the fight ended. It was pretty short.
And I thought that because of the ROTS novel's "one single exchange" thing. Regardless, Grievous taking one exchange to analyze Vaapad means they only had one more exchange after the first few exchanges. Yeah, it's more than I originally thought, but it still was a short fight.
And no, I didn't just "decide on it." Between Dooku firing Lightning at the Jedi, Maul lunging at the Jedi, Maul kicking Aayla, Dooku Force Pulling Tiplee, Dooku stabbing Tiplee, the Mandalorians aiming the rockets and firing, it was at least fifteen seconds.
If you want a more in depth explanation, then check this:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/yousufkhan1212/blog/darth-maul-vs-mace-windu-and-aayla-secura-context-/128415/
Going more into detail about the panels, etc. And it has the quote that a lot of action is cut from SoD so the viewer can keep up with everything that's going on.
And I never denied Grievous was hindered to a bigger degree. I said Mace was also hindered.
Grievous abused the agility in one miniseries fight. It didn't happen against Foul Moudama+Roron Corobb later in the Clone Wars, didn't happen in his fight with Ventress and Durge, didn't happen in his various encounters with Kenobi in TCW. I could be going on here, but you get the point. Grievous doesn't abuse his agility- most of the time, at least. So while it is a hindrance, it's not as big as people make it out to be. And I don't see any gifs in your post.
And your "yes" doesn't make your answer clear. You do think Grievous can beat Maul in full out, right?
If you do, why? Maul has shown the ability to dispatch Grievous force-wise without that much difficulty.

I said it was a single exchange because Mace said in the ROTS novel that it took one single exchange for Grievous to analyze Vaapad. Yeah, they clashed sabers a few times before. But it was just a few times.

You said, and I quote: "After a single exchange (meaning, after they clashed blades freaking once) Grievous analyzed Vaapad"

Was just addressing the simple fact that, per the text, that COULD NOT be the case, since Mace and Grievous had clashed blades numerous times prior to Grievous having analyzed Vaapad.

So, basically, they clashed six or seven times, the fight ended. It was pretty short.

The fight also would also have required that their blades clashed or movements of their blades were responded to at least a dozen times per the text.

1. "batting away at the two blades"

2. "swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs"

3. "thrusting at his skeletal face"

4. "The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light"

Mace monologues to himself for a while before the next confirmed back and forth occurs. Note, the sentence from #4 indicates the battle is ongoing even as Mace is monologuing.

5/6. "Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attackS and parrieS.

7/8. "His strikeS were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing.

9/10/11/12. "those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, riposteS, and thrustS."

It was likely far more then that though given, as I mentioned earlier, the fight lasted as long as it took Fisto and his magnaguard opponents to traverse the length of the train car.

And I thought that because of the ROTS novel's "one single exchange" thing. Regardless, Grievous taking one exchange to analyze Vaapad means they only had one more exchange after the first few exchanges. Yeah, it's more than I originally thought, but it still was a short fight.

Well we know they have numerous exchanges, where your problem lies is that you though an "exchange" meant a single clashing of blades when that was not the case.

And no, I didn't just "decide on it." Between Dooku firing Lightning at the Jedi, Maul lunging at the Jedi, Maul kicking Aayla, Dooku Force Pulling Tiplee, Dooku stabbing Tiplee, the Mandalorians aiming the rockets and firing, it was at least fifteen seconds.

I'm curious on how you settled on such a number given Dooku firing lightning occurred BEFORE Maul responded to Aaya and Mace's attacks.

If you want a more in depth explanation, then check this: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/prof...ontext-/128415/

Read through the thread. The first flaw in his argument is that he assumes Aayla was still fighting Maul after she was kicked despite there being numerous instances in Canon's of kicks like that downing opponents for several seconds. The second problem being that he assumes there's some big time skip between panels when we're shown that the Mandalorians see Maul fighting Mace and Aayla and are immediately preparing to fire whilst Dooku is Force pulling Tiplee.

Going more into detail about the panels, etc. And it has the quote that a lot of action is cut from SoD so the viewer can keep up with everything that's going on.

Addressed above.

And I never denied Grievous was hindered to a bigger degree. I said Mace was also hindered.

Seemed like you were since I already acknowledged Mace was hindered in my original post by the mere fact that I stated Grievous was hindered MORE.

Grievous abused the agility in one miniseries fight. It didn't happen against Foul Moudama+Roron Corobb later in the Clone Wars, didn't happen in his fight with Ventress and Durge, didn't happen in his various encounters with Kenobi in TCW.

In the very same novel as his fight against Mace he uses his feet as extra limbs in his fight against the 4 Jedi and in his fight against the Jedi in the battle of Coruscant he actively utilizes the landscape to keep up with them running down vertical and horizontal surfaces and dodging Force attacks. The author seemed to think it was important as well seeing as he devoted a full line to note the location's effect.

And I don't see any gifs in your post.

Planned to post gifs of Grievous running on vertical and horizontal surfaces. Don't know why it didn't go through.

And your "yes" doesn't make your answer clear. You do think Grievous can beat Maul in full out, right?

Yes in sabers. Depending on starting distance for all out.

If you do, why? Maul has shown the ability to dispatch Grievous force-wise without that much difficulty.

Before Grievous improved and showed himself capable of dodging Force pushes in the miniseries.

The miniseries fights happened before, chronologically. But I'd rather not mix that with TCW Grievous.

@sithmaser: You also forgot to address the fact that Grievous only using two blades would hinder his offensive and defensive output by half.