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Prime TCW Ahsoka. TPM Qui-Gon. All-out fight, to the death, on neutral ground.

Who wins and why?

Definitely closer than the majority of people will admit to.

Qui-Gon, not that close.

Ahsoka was a "force to be reckoned with" and held her own vs a far greater swordsmen, so it's close

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ahsoka was a "force to be reckoned with" and held her own vs a far greater swordsmen, so it's close

A force to be reckoned with... *shudders in fear* ... against who? Battle droids?

Grievous isn't a better swordsman than Qui-Gon, lmfao - at least not as of that episode. Maybe when he got the new upgrades in the Lost Missions though.

Grevious outdueled tcw Kenobi who's outdueld qui-gon's superior in maul.

Scaling works, reverse scaling doesn't.

Grievous never outdueled Kenobi - ever, really. He's got the better of him via kicking and trickery, but never straight up, that I can recall.

Bypassing someone's guard with physical strikes isn't fair game?

Not how Grievous does it most of the time, which is when he's in a bladelock or when the other is distracted and/or turned around, no.

Doing it in a bladelock is totally fair. Kenobi wasn't cheapshotted in season 7 or season 5

It's not an indication of who's a better duelist, lmfao.

Season 5 was the definition of a cheapshot - same when Grievous kicked Maul and forced him to flee.

Season 7 was still a cheapshot, but an impressive one. I'm open to the possibility the upgraded Grievous > Qui-Gon.

Physicals absolutely factor in how good of a duelist you are. And grveious did the same thing to Ahsoka

Physicals definitely do, but that doesn't mean every physical move has to do with dueling. In this particular case, it doesn't really, especially considering Grievous never killed any of them successfully and all of the fights he's done it would have continued onward with just a minor pause and a few bruises if his armies had not successfully overrun his opponent's forces (Maul, Kenobi) or it was time to leave anyway (Ahsoka).

uh what? Grevious could have killed Kenobi in season 7 and Kenobi felt too injured to fight in season 5

Season 7 is specifically different given a different and unfamiliar strategy, I believe, plus new armor. Besides, I already agreed Grievous might be able to beat Jinn as of Season 7, so I'm not sure why you keep referencing it.

For season 5, no he wasn't. We see him running fine shortly thereafter. The reason he retreated was that the enemy was closing in on all sides and if he stayed longer he would have died - probably not by Grievous, but by the invading army. If he still could have won, the fight would have continued.

What upgrades are you referencing for season 7?

As for season 5, their 1 v 1 itself was on the assumption the surrounding armies wouldn't shoot. Given we see Kneobi clutching his chest, I'd say he was wounded by that kick

Regardless even matching tcw Kenobi would be sufficient grounds fo rhim to be much better than Qui-Gon

Grievous' armor is changed / upgraded to his ROTS-built in Season 7. Thus, I consider there to be two different Grievous': TCW until Season 7, and then Season 7 to Grievous' death in ROTS. This armor distinction helps explain his poor performances in early TCW as well, given his abilities are almost completely dependent on his armor and cybernetics.

I'm not following. First off, Kenobi obviously cares about the clones and the information stored within the ship. Even if your assumption is true, he's not going to continue fighting as the droids march throughout the ship, kill the clones, and obtain important information if Kenobi can help stop it. Secondly, if they did continue to fight, Kenobi would be likely surrounded by droids, so if he would have beat Grievous, Grievous would have likely ordered them to open fire like he did vs Ventress, and I'm sure Kenobi recognized that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Qui-Gon, not that close.

Jinn, not a mismatch though.
And TCW Grievous bested S2 Kenobi. Even S4 Kenobi got rekt by an out of practice Maul who hadn't improved since TPM.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Grievous isn't a better swordsman than Qui-Gon, lmfao - at least not as of that episode. Maybe when he got the new upgrades in the Lost Missions though.

He got upgrades to his cybernetics during the Clone Wars?

Jinn.

Qui-Gon handily wins with his experience edge

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Jinn, not a mismatch though.
And TCW Grievous bested S2 Kenobi. Even S4 Kenobi got rekt by an out of practice Maul who hadn't improved since TPM. '
->Kenobi is tortured and ko'd twice
-> Maul gets taken out twice in one minute by Kenobi
->Kenobi got rekt
Makes sense

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
'
->Kenobi is tortured and ko'd twice
-> Maul gets taken out twice in one minute by Kenobi
->Kenobi got rekt
Makes sense


Kenobi gets slapped twice, his face grabbed once, punched twice, and thrown across a room which did no harm to Ventress. Four months post AOTC Kenobi withstood a greater beating from Durge. Kenobi was beaten which didn't hinder him as we saw in Kenobi vs Durge where Kenobi kept fighting after withstanding a bigger beating.

A desperate Kenobi landed a Force Push on a Maul whose guard was down, then Kenobi lands a meager kick. Right after this, though, Kenobi is sent flying with a kick. Fight continues, Maul dominates Kenobi with two kicks and Kenobi admits defeat. Quickly. Yeah, Kenobi got rekt.

Jinn. It's a decent fight though.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
'
->Kenobi is tortured and ko'd twice
-> Maul gets taken out twice in one minute by Kenobi
->Kenobi got rekt
Makes sense




Still, Maul won that fight. But it wasn't because of superior ability.

Originally posted by ares834
Jinn. It's a decent fight though.





Still, Maul won that fight. But it wasn't because of superior ability.
Well yes, much like TPM Kenobi beat TPM maul I suppose

Originally posted by thesithmaster
though, Kenobi is sent flying with a kick. Fight continues, Maul dominates Kenobi with two kicks and Kenobi admits defeat. Quickly. Yeah, Kenobi got rekt. Kenobi took a second to get up from Maul's three kicks, Maul took several seconds to start getting up from Kenobi's kick.

Kenobi's kick was more significant and would have ended the fight had it not been for ventress needing saving

Of course Kenobi was the better fighter in Revenge. Maul hadn't duelled in 10+ years.

Still was impressive the way Maul turned that fight around.

Originally posted by ares834
Jinn. It's a decent fight though.





Still, Maul won that fight. But it wasn't because of superior ability.

He won by kicking him around and making him force defeat. How is that not superior ability?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Kenobi took a second to get up from Maul's three kicks, Maul took several seconds to start getting up from Kenobi's kick.

Kenobi's kick was more significant and would have ended the fight had it not been for ventress needing saving

Maul was sent staggering by Kenobi's kick, and Kenobi would have tried to kill him if he wanted to. Maul, however, dominated Kenobi with his kicks, outmanuevering him and making Kenobi look pathetic by effortlessly sidestepping his strikes. Yeah, Maul clearly won.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Of course Kenobi was the better fighter in Revenge. Maul hadn't duelled in 10+ years.

Still was impressive the way Maul turned that fight around.

Kenobi wasn't the better fighter. He landed two meager hits while catching Maul off guard on one occasion and while desperate to save Asajj, but when that ended Maul outright wrecked him with kicks.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Of course Kenobi was the better fighter in Revenge. Maul hadn't duelled in 10+ years.

Still was impressive the way Maul turned that fight around.
And Kenobi was emotionally unbalanced and had been tortured and ko'd twice.

Yes Maul turned things around, by using a technique that wouldn't work outside of the circumstances of their revenge fight.

When both were hindered though, Kenobi was winning

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Maul was sent staggering by Kenobi's kick, and Kenobi would have tried to kill him if he wanted to. Maul, however, dominated Kenobi with his kicks, outmanuevering him and making Kenobi look pathetic by effortlessly sidestepping his strikes. Yeah, Maul clearly won.
Did you not see him opt to save ventress rather than try to finish maul?

Stop willfully ignoring what doesn't suit you. Kenobi actually had maul beat when both were hindered, twice.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Did you not see him opt to save ventress rather than try to finish maul?

Stop willfully ignoring what doesn't suit you. Kenobi actually had maul beat when both were hindered, twice.

Yeah, he saved Ventress. So?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
And Kenobi was emotionally unbalanced and had been tortured and ko'd twice.

Yes Maul turned things around, by using a technique that wouldn't work outside of the circumstances of their revenge fight.

When both were hindered though, Kenobi was winning


You must have missed the part where I said "of course Kenobi was better" as of that episode.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You must have missed the part where I said "of course Kenobi was better" as of that episode.
I didn't, but I felt it was apppropiate to point out that Kenobi was hindered as well

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Yeah, he saved Ventress. So?
SO he saved ventress instead of finishing maul

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
SO he saved ventress instead of finishing maul


But him saving Ventress doesn't mean he could have finished Maul. Yeah, Maul was a bit staggered, but that doesn't mean he was vulnerable to a killing blow.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I didn't, but I felt it was apppropiate to point out that Kenobi was hindered as well


Yes he was obviously hindered otherwise Maul couldn't have put up a decent fight against him, let alone actually win.

But Maul still did well to start turning the fight around like that. And then actually winning by hindering Kenobi further by "unbalancing" him.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
But him saving Ventress doesn't mean he could have finished Maul. Yeah, Maul was a bit staggered, but that doesn't mean he was vulnerable to a killing blow.
Maul was out for 5 seconds, Kenobi absolutely could have ended that

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Maul was out for 5 seconds, Kenobi absolutely could have ended that



Nah it's still speculation. Anakin was floored by Dooku for close to 10 seconds in ROTS. Does that mean Dooku could have absolutely ended him?

No, we can't say for sure. All we can say for sure is that Dooku and Obi-Wan were beating Anakin and Maul at those earlier stages of the fight.

Qui gon solidly

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah it's still speculation. Anakin was floored by Dooku for close to 10 seconds in ROTS. Does that mean Dooku could have absolutely ended him?

No, we can't say for sure. All we can say for sure is that Dooku and Obi-Wan were beating Anakin and Maul at those earlier stages of the fight.

The ROTS novel seriously disagrees. Anakin was running all over Dooku.

But Maul and Anakin there had the luxury of time due to Kenobi and Dooku doing other things.

Originally posted by thesithmaster

But Maul and Anakin there had the luxury of time due to Kenobi and Dooku doing other things.


Yeah that's my point. We can't just assume that they would carry on lying there if being directly attacked.

All we can say is the fight seemed to be going in Dooku and Kenobi's favour before said distractions.

https://i.giphy.com/media/2D51boXnKq4Jq/giphy.gif

Originally posted by thesithmaster
He won by kicking him around and making him force defeat. How is that not superior ability?

He won because of his use of Dun Moch causing Obi-Wan to be unbalanced. Not to mention, Kenobi was just beaten to shit by Savage...

Originally posted by ares834
He won because of his use of Dun Moch causing Obi-Wan to be unbalanced. Not to mention, Kenobi was just beaten to shit by Savage...

In CW microseries, Kenobi was fine after a bigger beating.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
In CW microseries, Kenobi was fine after a bigger beating.

Canon =/= Legends

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Canon =/= Legends

TCW is also part of the Legends continuity. And the microseries one was an inferior version of Kenobi.

Well even in Canon, Kanan was tortured for days before giving his best fight against the GI.

Kenobi being unbalanced (per Maul) and not in the right mind set (per Filoni) is why he lost.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
TCW is also part of the Legends continuity. And the microseries one was an inferior version of Kenobi.

Nah TCW is just Canon.