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Teams of two face off.

- Darth Maul (SoD)
- Savage Opress (TCW)

- Darth Tyranus (ROTS)
- General Grievous (ROTS)

- Quinlan Vos (DD)
- Asajj Ventress (DD)

- Darth Vader (R)
- Kylo Ren (TFA)

* Best two teams take on:
- Darth Sidious (TCW)

* Worst team takes on:
- Darth Vader (ROTS)

All characters are at their peak.

It's difficult to say honestly since Kylo's hard to place. If canon Kylo is above the level of someone like canon Ventress (which his duels at the end of TFA are more than I'd expect Ventress to do in similar condition, and he has some an gualidy accolades), then he'd beat Ventress, at least contend with Savage, and be able to stasis Grievous, with Vader being the mightiest team leader IMO, team Vader would win. If Kylo's beneath the other underlings, but can still compete with the underlings then I'd likely stick with team Vader since Ventress and Grievous are ragdoll fodder for him. And if Kylo's a complete *****, perhaps Maul and Savage since they have the best synergy and neither are particularly weak to force attacks, but I wouldn't rule Vader out since he's still the MVP with the most balanced skillset, greatest Force power, and greatest durability.

So I'm not entirely sure but I'm leaning team Vader.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
It's difficult to say honestly since Kylo's hard to place. If canon Kylo is above the level of someone like canon Ventress (which his duels at the end of TFA are more than I'd expect Ventress to do in similar condition, and he has some an gualidy accolades), then he'd beat Ventress, at least contend with Savage, and be able to stasis Grievous, with Vader being the mightiest team leader IMO, team Vader would win. If Kylo's beneath the other underlings, but can still compete with the underlings then I'd likely stick with team Vader since Ventress and Grievous are ragdoll fodder for him. And if Kylo's a complete *****, perhaps Maul and Savage since they have the best synergy and neither are particularly weak to force attacks, but I wouldn't rule Vader out since he's still the MVP with the most balanced skillset, greatest Force power, and greatest durability.

So I'm not entirely sure but I'm leaning team Vader.

Dooku, Vos, Grievous and Ventress lose to Sidious.

Vader, Kylo, Maul and Opress beat Vader.

You completely read that wrong, Syn.

Oh?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Teams of two face off.
You didn't answer this, aka the point of the thread.


I said worst team, not worst two teams.

Grievous and Dooku beat everybody.

Kylo and Vader lose to Vader.

You know this is Canon only, right?

Dooku and GG, prolly.

Not sure. Split between Savage+Maul/Dooku+GG. In Canon, it's actually entirely possible that Savage stomps Grievous in the Force due to lack of Grievous dodging Force.

Vader's team. No question.

They will lose to Sidious though.

Vader is the best combatant but Kylo is fodder.

Grievous will press Kylo far too much. If he was beating TCW S2 Kenobi in a duel, what hope does Kylo have? It's not as if Grievous is fodder for your average Force user, even in Canon.

You have seen TFA, yes? Kylo can easily freeze Grievous just as he did to others in the film. It's literally a non-fight. Kylo's powers are perfect for countering Grievous. It's just a terrible match up for the General.

Vader didn't stasis Karbin during their fight despite the fact that it would have been extremely convenient to do so at certain points in their fight.

The only logical conclusion then is the one we reached for Grievous in Legends. Their offensives are powerful enough that the person defending against them has to put nearly everything towards their augmentation simply to keep up.

If Kylo had the distance he'd need to stasis Grievous then Dooku would certainly be able to interfere and release Grievous so that could engage him.

Team maul and team vos are the last two standing imo. Kylo might not be fodder, but he definitely isn't going to beat anybody here in sabers and Grievous is too susceptible to the force. Not only that, Vos has already beaten Dooku rather decisively.

Ren's best feat is freezing Rey or Poe, though. I don't think he can easily someone of Grievous' strength-class.

It never seemed to be an issue of strength. I mean he stopped a blaster bolt.

Dooku and Grievous wins but lose to Sidious

Not sure about who's the weakest team.

Originally posted by ares834
It never seemed to be an issue of strength. I mean he stopped a blaster bolt.

A blaster bolt doesn't operate on strength. And yeah, TK can be overcome assuming someone is physically strong enough.

As for Dooku, he’s going to be having his hands full dueling others. He can’t sit around babysitting the General for long.

@Ares: Depending on who he's facing, it's certainly within his capabilities.

His TK is just subatomic tier and powerful enough to freeze entire quantum systems without loss of enegy.

Well unless he stopped time... Or maybe Star Wars doesn't follow the more complex side of physics? I mean, it is a fictional franchise after all.

Yes. It's space magic. But I'm not inclined to consider it TK.

Originally posted by ares834
You have seen TFA, yes? Kylo can easily freeze Grievous just as he did to others in the film. It's literally a non-fight. Kylo's powers are perfect for countering Grievous. It's just a terrible match up for the General.

He froze fodder. Grievous can instantly close the distance and stomp Kylo in a duel in a matter of seconds.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Vader didn't stasis Karbin during their fight despite the fact that it would have been extremely convenient to do so at certain points in their fight.


Vader's never shown the ability, that I can recall.

Originally posted by ares834
It never seemed to be an issue of strength. I mean he stopped a blaster bolt.
er wouldn't that just be tk?

Er ares, I think you're reading too much into this, if there's a source saying it's tk, I'd go with that

Originally posted by MythLord
Well unless he stopped time... Or maybe Star Wars doesn't follow the more complex side of physics? I mean, it is a fictional franchise after all.

That was the point of my post. If the book says it's TK, it's TK.

And I'm saying the book is wrong as it contradicts what is shown in the film.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood what you were getting at, yea, good point.
But isn't stasis an extension of tk?

Nope.

Going with Vader and Ren.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nope.
educate me bud

Telekinesis is, by definition, moving objects around, last time I checked.

isn't it normal to outrun blaster bolts in sw? seems like grievous should be more than able to imo

Depends by what you mean "outrun". But, no, I can't think of many characters running faster than a blaster bolt moves.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Going with Vader and Ren. naw, Vader's good but Kylo is trash in comparison to the others in this fight.

Originally posted by toplel
isn't it normal to outrun blaster bolts in sw? seems like grievous should be more than able to imo
In canon? Well actually Vader's LOTS feats are pretty high even compared to legends speed

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vader's never shown the ability, that I can recall.

Ventress is capable of doing so, why wouldn't Vader?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Ventress is capable of doing so, why wouldn't Vader?
In canon?

Dark Disciple.

Huh, quote?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Teams of two face off.

- Darth Maul (SoD)
- Savage Opress (TCW)

- Darth Tyranus (ROTS)
- General Grievous (ROTS)

- Quinlan Vos (DD)
- Asajj Ventress (DD)

- Darth Vader (R)
- Kylo Ren (TFA)

* Best two teams take on:
- Darth Sidious (TCW)

* Worst team takes on:
- Darth Vader (ROTS)

All characters are at their peak.
Maul could take on Grievous and the two would stalemate; but Savage would quickly die to Dooku unless he's enraged. Their best chance is if Maul contends with Dooku for a while and see if Savage can somehow defeat Grievous through Talzin's magical roid raging and that's for a minority win.

Vos and Ventress lose to Dooku by himself (as seen in the novel); add Grievous and they stand little chance.

It comes down to Dooku + Grievous vs Vader + Kylo

We know Kylo has some incredible talent in the force, but we've seen his lackluster dueling abilities. His only real chance is going against Grievous and ragdolling him with minimal saber combat; Dooku is too powerful for Ren.

Rebels Vader vs Dooku in canon is a closer fight than everyone thinks. I'll give Vader the win 6/10. Regardless; their fight will drag on for a while and it comes down to Kylo vs Grievous which is a lot of speculation.

I'm a bit discouraged by Kylo somewhat struggling with a non-force-sensitive storm-trooper wielding a lightsaber for the first time in his life. Even with the excuse that he was wounded or toying, Finn was able wound him. Rewatching the fight I found that Kylo's only real leverage was his strength; this would not work on Grievous who is far stronger, skillful, unpredictable, and possibly faster than Kylo.

Unless you can convince me otherwise about Kylo vs Grievous, I'm giving the ultimate win to team Dooku.

Dooku + Grievous + Vader + Kylo vs Sheev

Kylo is a non-factor here and so is Grievous.
Dooku and Vader put up a great fight but Sidious knows Vader's emotional and mechanical weaknesses. Sheev might have a tough-time with a single saber, but as soon as he puts it away and wields the force, the team has no leverage over him. Sheev 8-9/10

Worst team is Ventress and Vos IMO. They lose pretty badly to a knightfall Vader.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Huh, quote? I think he was referring to this:
The blond woman had already dispatched one of the burly Falleen guards and was now snapping the other's arm with frightening casualness. Blaster bolts sang as the dark human, dodging attacks with lithe grace, shot the blasters from the hands of the guards. Ziton stared, aghast, as the intruder almost cheerfully made a show of whirling his own blasters around his fingers before holstering them, then charged the nearest guard.

No, that wasn't it at all.

LMAO

dodging =/ outrunning

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
No, that wasn't it at all. Then what was it?

Ventress waves her hands and causes the blaster bolts to go back in the other direction.

That's a completely different power, lmfao.

Causing a blaster bolt to change directions is a completely different power then causing a blaster bolt to stop. Ok.

Yep. One is Force reflection, same power as Yoda uses against Dooku's lightning. The other is Force stasis, which Kylo uses vs Rey also.

The difference being Ventress isn't catching that energy in her hands and sending it back but actively altering its course in mid air.

All Kylo's doing is using telekinesis to freeze something in place. Force stasis is a Legends ability.

There is a Canon name for the power I saw in some children's book at the mall. You're right - it's not stasis, but it's specifically a stun power, I believe. The name was pretty funky. I'd need to see the Ventress quote, though. Chances are it is a variation of reflection.

(Post on last page too)
It *might* have been called suspended animation, although I'm not sure until I go back to the store.

It's possibly tk, but him having a cnversatyion while it was still leads me to think it's something like stasis, or maybe another application of tk

It doesn't really matter though. Until we get proof of it being tk or a stasis power, we can't say for sure and the only people that kylo executed that move on consisted of a non force sensitive pilot with no real strength or resistance feats to speak of and an unprepared girl with no training in how to use the force. The only person that Kylo's power might work on is Grievous and that's still debatable.

Also, I'm assuming that we're using Quinlan during his last fight with Dooku. If so, team Vos and team Maul are the last two standing.

I think Kylo is kind of weak link here and would leave his teammate alone pretty soon. The team with Dooku is likely the strongest, albeit barely. Maul/Oppress vs Vos/Ventress is kind of a toss up, however unless Savage is enraged, I see Ventress defeating him after a long duel, while Vos and Maul stalemate, or Vos wins after a long duel.
So it's Dooku/Grevious/Vos/Ventress vs Sidious. Sidious wins imo. Grevious can get stomped immediately through the force, Mace did it, Dooku did it too, sidious can replicate that feat even easier. Dooku/Vos and Ventress can last some time, but I see Ventress dying after some time, and then Dooku/Vos will soon follow. It won't be a stomp because they will put up some kind of fight, but that's it. Worst team is vAder and kylo, and they beat vader

Originally posted by Total Warrior
I think Kylo is kind of weak link here and would leave his teammate alone pretty soon. The team with Dooku is likely the strongest, albeit barely. Maul/Oppress vs Vos/Ventress is kind of a toss up, however unless Savage is enraged, I see Ventress defeating him after a long duel, while Vos and Maul stalemate, or Vos wins after a long duel.
So it's Dooku/Grevious/Vos/Ventress vs Sidious. Sidious wins imo. Grevious can get stomped immediately through the force, Mace did it, Dooku did it too, sidious can replicate that feat even easier. Dooku/Vos and Ventress can last some time, but I see Ventress dying after some time, and then Dooku/Vos will soon follow. It won't be a stomp because they will put up some kind of fight, but that's it. Worst team is vAder and kylo, and they beat vader I can agree with most of what you said, but I honestly can't see Dooku and Grievous being on of the last two teams standing. Grievous is skilled in sabers, but ventress has already had him on the losing end of a fight before, maul has already done a bfr in SOD, and (unlike kylo) he has no defense against the force. I also recall Eeth Koth managing to gain the upper hand against him before. Also, Dooku has already lost against Quinlan, so......

Originally posted by deathslash
I can agree with most of what you said, but I honestly can't see Dooku and Grievous being on of the last two teams standing. Grievous is skilled in sabers, but ventress has already had him on the losing end of a fight before, maul has already done a bfr in SOD, and (unlike kylo) he has no defense against the force. I also recall Eeth Koth managing to gain the upper hand against him before. Also, Dooku has already lost against Quinlan, so...... Ventress had the environmental advantage over Grievous on Dathomir.

Originally posted by Kurk
Ventress had the environmental advantage over Grievous on Dathomir.

I wouldn't exactly call it environmental advantage- yeah, the planet amped her, but she didn't make use of the environment.

she chose not to be amped?

Originally posted by toplel
she chose not to be amped?

No. She didn't make use of the environment. She was automatically amped. The advantage was her being amped, not using the environment to hide+cheap-shot GG, trip him, throw things against him, or gain some kind of high ground. Which would be something resembling an environmental advantage. This was an amp.

It was a beneficial factor bestowed upon her by the environment they were fighting in, so it is considered by people to be an environmental advantage. Nobody actually disagrees with you, you're just bitching about semantics.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
It was a beneficial factor bestowed upon her by the environment they were fighting in, so it is considered by people to be an environmental advantage. Nobody actually disagrees with you, you're just bitching about semantics.

cant believe my mans ''thesithmaster'' thought that kurk meant she didnt throw shit at him lol he obv meant the amp by saying environmental advantage

Originally posted by Kurk
Ventress had the environmental advantage over Grievous on Dathomir. Didn't know that Dathomir amped her. Doesn't change how Eeth Koth used the force to gain the upper hand against Grievous though. Maul also downed him.

sheev solos.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There is a Canon name for the power I saw in some children's book at the mall. You're right - it's not stasis, but it's specifically a stun power, I believe. The name was pretty funky. I'd need to see the Ventress quote, though. Chances are it is a variation of reflection.

I'll post it once I force myself through the rest of Dark Disciple.

Answer Hangouts ^

Vader or Dooku btw