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Why do dems insist on keeping it?

We have no choice. If we do not keep it the yearly body count will be 9 times more than the body count on 9/11.

Maybe, just maybe...if the body count was only a mere 7 times more than 9/11 it would be do-able, but 9? No way Jose.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/sanders-compares-gop-health-care-plan-911/

I can't believe I used to take that guy serious.

Obamacare had it's problem but it was trucking along, Trump gets in office, hates Obamacare cos "Obama" makes up five of its letters and now we're having problems with the insurance companies playing money-grab games, almost like they're emboldened. Hmmm. Nope. No correlation.

It wasn't trucking along, it was imploding before he took office and premiums were skyrocketing before he took the oath.

Some of the smartest people in my highschool class said that they didn't want to go into medicine if Obamacare wasn't repealed by the time they graduated.

We're getting second rate idiots to go into medicine. I hope you're okay with a lower standard of care.

Originally posted by Kurk
Some of the smartest people in my highschool class said that they didn't want to go into medicine if Obamacare wasn't repealed by the time they graduated.

We're getting second rate idiots to go into medicine. I hope you're okay with a lower standard of care.

^ LoL. This guy with his doom-n-gloom antics

ps Republicans completely control the government right now. Obamacare is 100% in their hands now, it stays, it goes, it fails, it succeeds, they own it

Originally posted by Robtard
^ LoL. This guy with his doom-n-gloom antics

ps Republicans completely control the government right now. Obamacare is 100% in their hands now, it stays, it goes, it fails, it succeeds, they own it

That is misleading, you know to get anything significant done, they need 60 votes, which they don't have. The Senate is the ultimate blockade and the only things Dems care about is punishing Russian and resisting Trump.

No it's not. Republicans control all three branches of the government right now, nothing is stopping them from repealing Obamacare and replacing it, except party unity which they don't have. They're in control; they own it. How it works.

You know the senate has a 60 vote threshold on legislation. They cant repeal all of Obamacare without 60 votes, hence the skinny repeal.

Also McCain, Collins and Mclasky, are not really republicans. And in 2015, 48 Republican Senators Voted For A Clean Obamacare Repeal, still not enough.

This time only 49 voted for it.

They should try harder. Hell, they couldn't even get 51 votes at one point to start the HC talks. Then we saw what John "Maverick' McCain recently did. LoLz, he's a pretty cool dude at times. Party Unity on that side is severely lacking right now, this is a fact.

I don't know why keeping Obamacare is a good thing.

Originally posted by Sable
I don't know why keeping Obamacare is a good thing.

I'm all for "something better" as Trump promised. The various forms of Trumpcare proposed weren't it though.

The biggest lie of all is that health care is the the same as health insurance. They are not even close, but this is what is purported daily.

Originally posted by Sable
You know the senate has a 60 vote threshold on legislation. They cant repeal all of Obamacare without 60 votes, hence the skinny repeal.

Also McCain, Collins and Mclasky, are not really republicans. And in 2015, 48 Republican Senators Voted For A Clean Obamacare Repeal, still not enough.

This time only 49 voted for it.

This is not really true.

Last week they voted for 3 major amendments for Obamacare, one of which was a "full" repeal which got something like 45 or 46 votes. This would not have needed 60 votes, only 50. It was the same bill they voted on in 2015 that got 50+ votes. Just about the only thing about the law that it wouldn't have repealed was the law that insurance companies provide coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.

The skinny repeal was complete shit by any standard, even by Republican standards. They claim their problem with obamacare is that it has increased the cost of insurance too much, but the skinny repeal would have raised prices even more. It would have achieved nothing. McCain was right to vote against it, it was an indefensible bill in itself, and since they had no real guarantee that going to conference would lead to legislation that both houses could agree to, there was the real possibility that if that were to occur, the house could just bring up the Skinny repeal as a last resort, since the senate would have already passed it, vote for it, send it to Trump's desk, who would sign it into law.

Also the idea of Obamacare imploding is largely exaggerated. It obviously has problems, but the solution is to fix said problems, not upend the entire law and replace it with something objectively worse. The fact that the ACA works well in states that have most embraced it, such as California, is evidence of the fact that
the law can and does work well when people aren't working to try and sabotage it. If the law truly was as bad as many would have you believe, then it would be unworkable in all states, not just the ones that have resisted it the most. Even in states like Ohio who have had serious problems with coverage options for many counties, we see that such a problem can be fixed via state government, as their governor has been able to shore up at least one insurer to cover the counties that previously had none.

Your above point is pretty pointless, too. healthcare and health insurance are obviously very close. Health insurance allows people to utilize health care. Without health insurance all but the super rich would be unable to.

Originally posted by BackFire
This is not really true.

Last week they voted for 3 major amendments for Obamacare, one of which was a "full" repeal which got something like 45 or 46 votes. This would not have needed 60 votes, only 50. It was the same bill they voted on in 2015 that got 50+ votes. Just about the only thing about the law that it wouldn't have repealed was the law that insurance companies provide coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.

The skinny repeal was complete shit by any standard, even by Republican standards. They claim their problem with obamacare is that it has increased the cost of insurance too much, but the skinny repeal would have raised prices even more. It would have achieved nothing. McCain was right to vote against it, it was an indefensible bill in itself, and since they had no real guarantee that going to conference would lead to legislation that both houses could agree to, there was the real possibility that if that were to occur, the house could just bring up the Skinny repeal as a last resort, since the senate would have already passed it, vote for it, send it to Trump's desk, who would sign it into law.

Also the idea of Obamacare imploding is largely exaggerated. It obviously has problems, but the solution is to fix said problems, not upend the entire law and replace it with something objectively worse. The fact that the ACA works well in states that have most embraced it, such as California, is evidence of the fact that
the law can and does work well when people aren't working to try and sabotage it. If the law truly was as bad as many would have you believe, then it would be unworkable in all states, not just the ones that have resisted it the most. Even in states like Ohio who have had serious problems with coverage options for many counties, we see that such a problem can be fixed via state government, as their governor has been able to shore up at least one insurer to cover the counties that previously had none.

Your above point is pretty pointless, too. healthcare and health insurance are obviously very close. Health insurance allows people to utilize health care. Without health insurance all but the super rich would be unable to.

I completely disagree, it was passed with 60 votes, so for a full repeal it needs 60 votes unless.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/73537-senate-passes-historic-healthcare-reform-bill-60-40

45 counties already have no insurer, prices are going up and democrats know its imploding thats why they are trying to form a committee to fix it.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/09/us/counties-with-one-or-no-obamacare-insurer.html

Their full repeal was not even a full repeal, and their skinny was even less. I stand by what I said, it was passed with 60 and needs 60 to repeal it.

Health care and health insurance are not even close. Health care is the quality of care and what we are able to have access to. Health insurance covers costs of bad health care. I disagree with you on all points, and was not wrong on any point.

To go on further

Health Care is not the same as Health Insurance and they are not closely related at all.

You can have bad health care, and have expensive health insurance, it is possible because we have it now.

We can't even cure cancer, much less anything else besides vaccines that stop a problem from happening. The health care in this country is borderline crap. We have millions of people a year dying from God knows what, and we can't do anything about it. Its bad health care.

Originally posted by Sable
I completely disagree, it was passed with 60 votes, so for a full repeal it needs 60 votes unless.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/73537-senate-passes-historic-healthcare-reform-bill-60-40

Their full repeal was not even a full repeal, and their skinny was even less. I stand by what I said, it was passed with 60 and needs 60 to repeal it. No health care and health insurance are not even close. Health care is the quality of care and what we are able to have access to. Health insurance covers costs of bad health care. I disagree with you on all points.

There's nothing to disagree with, what I said is factual and provable, you are simply incorrect.

While Obamacare was passed with 60 votes, and needed 60 votes, the repeal efforts did not. Republicans were using a way around that called budget reconciliation, which allows them to pass a bill using only 50 votes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

The "full" repeal that was passed in 2015 and attempted again last week would have only needed 50 votes, with Pence being the tie breaker. As I said, it would have repealed everything but the law that forces insurance companies to cover people with preexisting conditions. So while total repeal of the law, including that one extremely popular aspect, would take 60 votes, all the bills voted on last week only needed 50.

Obviously health care and health insurance are close, they are intrinsically linked, one can't access health care without health insurance unless they are going to pay out of pocket, which increases the cost of care by significant amounts.

Obamacare imploding =/= Obamacare having problems. Imploding implies that the law is completely unworkable, the fact that it works in some states proves this incorrect. If Obamacare was imploding, it would be broken in all areas of the country. Fixing Obamacare wouldn't really be very difficult, the GOP have just been too stubborn to try and help fix it.

Dems have offered a single amendment to fix it, its easy to blame republicans when the Dems wont even try.

Even Fox agrees: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/22/as-senate-struggles-to-get-50-votes-is-40-is-new-60.html

There was really nothing stopping the Republicans from a full repeal and replace except themselves.

Originally posted by Robtard
Even Fox agrees: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/22/as-senate-struggles-to-get-50-votes-is-40-is-new-60.html

There was really nothing stopping the Republicans from a full repeal and replace except themselves.

The person that stopped it was a man with vengeance in his heart by the name of John McCain.

Its very obvious that McCain is senile, forgetful, angry and revengeful and now has brain cancer. At 80 years old with this diagnosis, I don't know how you don't want to go home and spend your last days with your family. My only guess is he craves power, the lime light, and refuses to just get over not winning the 2008 election. He just can't get over it, coupled with his hate for Trump. Its a very dangerous place to be.

Originally posted by Sable
Dems have offered a single amendment to fix it, its easy to blame republicans when the Dems wont even try.

Democrats have proposed many things to try and improve obamacare, the GOP led congress simply wasn't interested.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/241524-dems-to-gop-were-ready-to-fix-obamacare-why-arent-you

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/12/15955982/democrats-fix-obamacare

McCain did the right thing. His governor was against the skinny repeal and he said from the start that he'd go with his governor.

Originally posted by Sable
Its very obvious that McCain is senile, forgetful, angry and revengeful and now has brain cancer. At 80 years old with this diagnosis, I don't know how you don't want to go home and spend your last days with your family. My only guess is he craves power, the lime light, and refuses to just get over not winning the 2008 election. He just can't get over it, coupled with his hate for Trump. Its a very dangerous place to be.

LoLz. McCain's the new public enemy #1 now. You people are hilarious

Originally posted by BackFire
Democrats have proposed many things to try and improve obamacare, the GOP led congress simply wasn't interested.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/241524-dems-to-gop-were-ready-to-fix-obamacare-why-arent-you

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/12/15955982/democrats-fix-obamacare

McCain did the right thing. His governor was against the skinny repeal and he said from the start that he'd go with his governor.

I see statements of people saying we need to fix it, can you find actual amendments in black and white putting the money where their mouth is?

Originally posted by Robtard
LoLz. McCain's the new public enemy #1 now. You people are hilarious

I just don't understand him, if I had brain cancer and couldn't question people properly on the senate panel in from on millions of people, and having trouble performing my job, I would retire.

Originally posted by Sable
I see statements of people saying we need to fix it, can you find actual amendments in black and white putting the money where their mouth is?

http://www.businessinsider.com/obamacare-replacement-democrat-amendement-republican-pay-more-for-less-care-act-2017-3

Originally posted by Sable
I just don't understand him, if I had brain cancer and couldn't question people properly on the senate panel in from on millions of people, and having trouble performing my job, I would retire.

If it makes you feel better, I can't see him being a Senator much longer. I'm just glad he's going out on a positive note. His ' ' will be cemented in political history.

Some of those are pretty funny though, you have to admit.

I admit its funny, but you have to admit they didn't do shit like I said.

Originally posted by Sable
I admit its funny, but you have to admit they didn't do shit like I said.

Well they were out of power, so whatever they were to offer would have been shot down anyways because Republicans had a vested political interest in Obamacare not working very well.

This is why we have gridlock. Besides Obamacare, did Obama pass any major legislation?

Originally posted by Sable
This is why we have gridlock. Besides Obamacare, did Obama pass any major legislation?

Yeah, he did.

The most obvious being the stimulus package in 2009 to help with the recession.

Also the dodd/frank act.

Originally posted by BackFire
Yeah, he did.

The most obvious being the stimulus package in 2009 to help with the recession.

Also the dodd/frank act.

Besides stimulus, which was happening regardless of him.

So Dodd Frank and Obamacare, anything else?

Originally posted by Sable
Besides stimulus, which was happening regardless of him.

So Dodd Frank and Obamacare, anything else?

Those were probably the biggest.

Originally posted by Sable
Its very obvious that McCain is senile, forgetful, angry and revengeful and now has brain cancer. At 80 years old with this diagnosis, I don't know how you don't want to go home and spend your last days with your family. My only guess is he craves power, the lime light, and refuses to just get over not winning the 2008 election. He just can't get over it, coupled with his hate for Trump. Its a very dangerous place to be.

I have to admit I couldn't help laughing at the fact that after this you had various media outlets essentially going "maverick! maverick!".

I guarantee you that is what this is about too lol, that is how McCain...in his mind, sees himself.

lol

Originally posted by Sable
This is why we have gridlock. Besides Obamacare, did Obama pass any major legislation?

Here you go, it's a long list so I won't copy/paste

Link to Page <--- Click

thx

Originally posted by Surtur
I have to admit I couldn't help laughing at the fact that after this you had various media outlets essentially going "maverick! maverick!".

I guarantee you that is what this is about too lol, that is how McCain...in his mind, sees himself.

We really don't know where his head is, for all we know, he thinks he's president. After all he bombed his own carrier, got off the ship as it burned and killed 123 sailors.

USS Forestal 50th Anniversary

"A rocket misfired, striking a fuel tank on one of the planes and a fire on the flight deck began igniting bombs on board."

That rocket that misfired was McCain trying to be the maverick and he launched the missiles on his own ship. Killing over 100 people and almost sinking the ship.

"By the time the fire was under control, 134 men had lost their lives, 64 more were injured and 21 aircraft were destroyed. The Forrestal itself also suffered major damage."

Originally posted by Surtur
I have to admit I couldn't help laughing at the fact that after this you had various media outlets essentially going "maverick! maverick!".

I guarantee you that is what this is about too lol, that is how McCain...in his mind, sees himself.

I think there are a lot of reasons McCain did what he did.

I do think that giving a big middle finger to Trump, who he clearly doesn't like or respect, was one such reason.

I also think it's true that he really likes his maverick persona, and this probably cemented that legacy for himself. Particularly because of the very dramatic way the vote turned out.

Lastly, the fact that the bill was an enormous pile of pig shit didn't hurt either.

That bill ws not the final bill and you know it, it was to get it in committee.

Originally posted by Sable
That bill ws not the final bill and you know it, it was to get it in committee.

Yes but there was no guarantee that after going to committee and failing to come to a workable agreement, which I think is pretty likely considering how they hadn't been able to really agree on anything up through that point, that the house wouldn't just pass the skinny repeal just to say they did something. That was McCain's worry, and it was a reasonable one.

McCain wanted revenge because he's a senile old man who has bloodlust and craves war.

Originally posted by Sable
McCain wanted revenge because he's a senile old man who has bloodlust and craves war.

Or because he thought it was a shitty bill and had legitimate concerns that I've already outlined.

Originally posted by BackFire
Or because he thought it was a shitty bill and had legitimate concerns that I've already outlined.

In all honesty, I seriously doubt the man even knows anything about healthcare or cares about it.

Originally posted by Sable
In all honesty, I seriously doubt the man even knows anything about healthcare or cares about it.

So like Trump and most other members of congress?

Originally posted by BackFire
So like Trump and most other members of congress?

You could be right, Pelosi passed it without reading it. Trump wants to let the free market decide, which is how Americs is run. There really isnt anything in the constitution that says goverment has to run health care.

The free market is what we had before obamacare, it led to a system that put money ahead of human life.

From everything I have read and seen, Obamacare has enriched insurance companies and it was passed off as savings to the poor.

Originally posted by Sable
From everything I have read and seen, Obamacare has enriched insurance companies and it was passed off as savings to the poor.

It has given a lot of money to insurance companies to counteract the amount of money it costs to insure people with pre-existing conditions, which they didn't have to do before Obamacare. Which led to various horror stories about people getting cancer and then being thrown off of their insurance, then being forced to either sell their home to pay for treatment or give up and die so that their family could have money for their future. And this was becoming more and more common, which is why health care reform was necessary.

The poor generally do quite well with obamacare, because of subsidies and things in the bill that force insurance companies to sell their plans for less to poor people. The people who generally don't do well with obamacare are those in the middle class and upper middle class, who in some places have to pay a lot for their plans. This is one of the things that genuinely do need to be fixed in it.

Cant disagree with you on that.