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Would Luke still become a jedi? Would he not care for r2d2 when he arrived?

When I first read this, I legitimately laughed out loud. If he died of a stroke, then I guess nothing would happen and the Emperor would rule the galaxy forever

He'd be dead, cause the Sand People..

Originally posted by Zenwolf
He'd be dead, cause the Sand People.. Great point!

loving the new profile pic and sig Kurk

I can't sleep, so I'm going to type about how you're wrong.


So, Yoda clearly had his eyes set on Leia to be the next jedi, not Luke. To be honest, he'd had a point. Anakin, Leia, and Padme were all some of the most accomplished people of their times by the age of 19. Luke, by that age, was making vroom vroom noises with toy spaceships. And he wasn't the best choice of student for all of what Yoda said. Now, while Obi-Wan, because he'd been so close to Luke this entire time, convinced Yoda that Luke was a worthy student, if Luke would have stayed on that desert planet, likely Leia would have become the jedi, defeated the emperor, found out Luke was her brother, gotten him off Tatooine, taught him in the ways of the Force, and pretty much the EXACT same thing would have happened afterwards, except with Leia taking the role of Luke and vice versa.

Originally posted by Zentrex
I can't sleep, so I'm going to type about how you're wrong.


So, Yoda clearly had his eyes set on Leia to be the next jedi, not Luke. To be honest, he'd had a point. Anakin, Leia, and Padme were all some of the most accomplished people of their times by the age of 19. Luke, by that age, was making vroom vroom noises with toy spaceships. And he wasn't the best choice of student for all of what Yoda said. Now, while Obi-Wan, because he'd been so close to Luke this entire time, convinced Yoda that Luke was a worthy student, if Luke would have stayed on that desert planet, likely Leia would have become the jedi, defeated the emperor, found out Luke was her brother, gotten him off Tatooine, taught him in the ways of the Force, and pretty much the EXACT same thing would have happened afterwards, except with Leia taking the role of Luke and vice versa. The only reason the Deathstar was destroyed was because the trench was just like Beggar's Canyon back home and bullseying womp rats back home with his t-16 and they aren't much bigger than 2 meters.

He would be, somehow, adopted by the Sand People.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
The only reason the Deathstar was destroyed was because the trench was just like Beggar's Canyon back home and bullseying womp rats back home with his t-16 and they aren't much bigger than 2 meters.

The WHOLE reason, though? Cause the computer and human skill failed. It was the Force which made it work. Anyone that has the Force could have made the proton torpedoes go into the exhaust port.

Originally posted by Zentrex
The WHOLE reason, though? Cause the computer and human skill failed. It was the Force which made it work. Anyone that has the Force could have made the proton torpedoes go into the exhaust port. Not the whole reason, but the only reason it was destroyed was because of Luke's piloting skills beforehand. Obviously the force helped, no one is denying that.

The difference is if you would have put Leia up there she would have force guided herself into the wall and killed herself, and the Deathstar would have not been destroyed.

Well, perhaps she would have just stayed on a ship close to the death star with x-wings around her to distract the turbolasers. She could then have an x-wing fire a shot, and she'd use the Force to guide into the shaft. I know that sounds stupid, but Yoda was fairly confident that Leia was the better choice, so maybe he had a point?...

After the Death Star incident maybe. I just don't see anyone but a pilot being a good user for that first movie

I see what you're saying.





I'd still say that they'd figure it out, but you've convinced me that the death star wouldn't have been destroyed as quickly and easily as it was.

In the TLJ novelization, Luke had a premonition of what his life would've been if he hadn't left home with Kenobi.

In short, he would've never left Tatooine at all, he would've never become a Jedi, Leia would've been executed, the Death Star would've destroyed Alderaan, Mon Cala, and Chandrila, and the Empire itself would've never fallen.

What if that premonition wasn't entirely accurate? Are there not other possibilities? Is Kenobi's death the sole catalyst for what happened? And was Yoda going to do nothing about this? And the hundreds of other Jedi that survived order 66? I'm not a believer. Also, it's really stupid that the Empire would never have died. Darth Vader would have killed the emperor, one way or another. It was supposed to be inevitable.

And that's just the canon timeline. The legends continuity is different. I can't see that happening.

Originally posted by Zentrex
I can't sleep, so I'm going to type about how you're wrong.


So, Yoda clearly had his eyes set on Leia to be the next jedi, not Luke. To be honest, he'd had a point. Anakin, Leia, and Padme were all some of the most accomplished people of their times by the age of 19. Luke, by that age, was making vroom vroom noises with toy spaceships. And he wasn't the best choice of student for all of what Yoda said. Now, while Obi-Wan, because he'd been so close to Luke this entire time, convinced Yoda that Luke was a worthy student, if Luke would have stayed on that desert planet, likely Leia would have become the jedi, defeated the emperor, found out Luke was her brother, gotten him off Tatooine, taught him in the ways of the Force, and pretty much the EXACT same thing would have happened afterwards, except with Leia taking the role of Luke and vice versa. Leia was too aggressive and political to ever be the Jedi Yoda and Ben needed. She would have fallen to the dark side by failing the test that Luke passed when he spared Vader's life after killing him.

Luke being a dumbass flyover-state hick filled with humble pie ultimately worked in his favor.

This isn't even taking into consideration of course that if Luke wasn't in the picture Leia and the Rebellion would have just been destroyed by the Death Star.

Originally posted by Zentrex
What if that premonition wasn't entirely accurate? Are there not other possibilities? Is Kenobi's death the sole catalyst for what happened? And was Yoda going to do nothing about this? And the hundreds of other Jedi that survived order 66? I'm not a believer. Also, it's really stupid that the Empire would never have died. Darth Vader would have killed the emperor, one way or another. It was supposed to be inevitable.

And that's just the canon timeline. The legends continuity is different. I can't see that happening. The movies themselves answer your question.

"That boy was our last hope."

"No. There is another."

As far as both Yoda and Obi-Wan were concerned the Skywalkers were the last hope for defeating the dark side.

That's just Yoda and Obi-Wan's opinion. And wasn't this before Lucas came up with the prophecy of the chosen one?

Originally posted by Zentrex
What if that premonition wasn't entirely accurate? The force itself intentionally gave Luke that premonition(even though he had tried to cut himself off from it entirely.) So yes, I'd put a lot of stock in it, tbh.



Originally posted by Zentrex
And was Yoda going to do nothing about this? Well, he spent the 22 years between RotS and ESB doing almost nothing of note, and then another year continuing to do almost nothing... Then he died.

So no, I don't think Yoda would have tried to solo the entire Empire.

Originally posted by Zentrex
And the hundreds of other Jedi that survived order 66? Almost all of the Jedi who survived O66 had been purged by the time ANH rolled around, and those who remained were certainly no challenge to Vader -- let alone Palpatine.

*Only* Luke(and presumably Leia) had the potential to truly threaten Vader/Palpatine. If they had been removed from play from the get-go, it would have drastically changed everything.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Also, it's really stupid that the Empire would never have died. Why? If Luke/Leia weren't in the picture, the Empire would have never been truly compromised.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Darth Vader would have killed the emperor, one way or another. It was supposed to be inevitable. Vader ultimately redeemed himself(and killed Palpatine) BECAUSE OF his love for Luke. If Luke weren't in the picture, it is very unlikely that Vader would've ever made a move against Palpatine.

Originally posted by Galan007
In the TLJ novelization, Luke had a premonition of what his life would've been if he hadn't left home with Kenobi.

In short, he would've never left Tatooine at all, he would've never become a Jedi, Leia would've been executed, the Death Star would've destroyed Alderaan, Mon Cala, and Chandrila, and the Empire itself would've never fallen.
The empire would have fallen, just not as quickly as it did irl. No way it's rivaling the ten thousand year reign of the republic.

I didn't mean 'never' in the literal sense -- all empires fall at *some* point.

But if Luke/Leia were removed from the picture, I do feel confident that the Empire would have endured much, much longer than it did... Hence why it was still going strong in Luke's premonition.

Plot twist: Luke joins the Sand People and forges the Rebel Alliance with Admiral Ackbar as representative.

Originally posted by Galan007
The force itself intentionally gave Luke that premonition(even though he had tried to cut himself off from it entirely.) So yes, I'd put a lot of stock in it, tbh.

I don't know. Sometimes there are multiple ways things can play out. The vision Luke had may have been trying to tell him to get Rey to defeat the new threat, for if she didn't, it would be like he hadn't defeated the Empire. That doesn't mean there's no hope at all. Especially with the whole prophecy of the chosen one.



That's because Luke had already been found. If he hadn't, he would've done something to train Leia, who probably, due to the will of the Force, survived the whole ordeal on the death star. Being realistic about it, it's kind of against all odds that Luke survived that.



To train Luke/Leia, I mean.



Well, I'd like to bring up the prophecy (multiple prophecies, actually) again, and I've already said that Ben's death doesn't mean Luke doesn't leave the planet/never becomes a Jedi. And it certainly doesn't mean Leia just dies on the death star.



Unlikely doesn't mean impossible.

Originally posted by Zentrex
I don't know. Sometimes there are multiple ways things can play out. The vision Luke had may have been trying to tell him to get Rey to defeat the new threat, for if she didn't, it would be like he hadn't defeated the Empire. That doesn't mean there's no hope at all. Especially with the whole prophecy of the chosen one. That's not the way Luke's dream reads at all in the novel.

Luke had an extremely vivid premonition of what would've happened if he hadn't followed Ben's path and become a Jedi. Per his premonition, the Empire was still going strong years after RotJ(he was an old man in the premonition.)

Originally posted by Zentrex
That's because Luke had already been found. If he hadn't, he would've done something to train Leia, who probably, due to the will of the Force, survived the whole ordeal on the death star. Being realistic about it, it's kind of against all odds that Luke survived that. According to his premonition, Leia would have been executed when she was captured by Tarkin/Vader in ANH... Which means Ben/Yoda would've never got the chance to train her.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Well, I'd like to bring up the prophecy (multiple prophecies, actually) again, and I've already said that Ben's death doesn't mean Luke doesn't leave the planet/never becomes a Jedi. And it certainly doesn't mean Leia just dies on the death star. Again, I'm just citing what we were explicitly told in Luke's premonition.

You can disagree if you'd like... Doesn't change what he foresaw. /shrug

Originally posted by Zentrex
Unlikely doesn't mean impossible. Let me put it another way: there is very little(almost no) evidence to suggest that Vader would have ever turned against Palpatine if it hadn't been for Luke... The love for his son was *the* sole catalyst behind Vader's redemption.

If it hadn't been for Luke, Vader would have likely remained the obedient lapdog that Palpatine made him.

Alright, alright, alright, alright. In the new canon. But in legends...

What happened was already very unlikely. The only reason it happened is because the Force needed it to. So Palpatine not dying by the hands of Vader as prophesized is impossible. Kenobi's death isn't going to change that.

Though if I'm going to resort to desperate arguments, then I can say that the force probably wouldn't have allowed Kenobi to die, and he is a jedi master, so a stroke at the age of what, 50? seems unlikely, especially considering what he's endured. And then again, he could always talk to Luke from beyond the dead.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Alright, alright, alright, alright. In the new canon. But in legends...

What happened was already very unlikely. The only reason it happened is because the Force needed it to. So Palpatine not dying by the hands of Vader as prophesized is impossible. Kenobi's death isn't going to change that.

Though if I'm going to resort to desperate arguments, then I can say that the force probably wouldn't have allowed Kenobi to die, and he is a jedi master, so a stroke at the age of what, 50? seems unlikely, especially considering what he's endured. And then again, he could always talk to Luke from beyond the dead. Yeah, I was talking canon.

Anywho, the prophecy of the Chosen One is... Meh. The 'balance' only lasted a little over 30 years until the dark side returned back to the galaxy en gros(thanks in large part to the contingencies that Palpatine himself put in place.)

Anakin/Vader balancing the force certainly didn't amount to the "victory for all time" that Yoda prophesied in TCW, but I digress... /shrug

Originally posted by Zentrex
Alright, alright, alright, alright. In the new canon. But in legends...

What happened was already very unlikely. The only reason it happened is because the Force needed it to. So Palpatine not dying by the hands of Vader as prophesized is impossible. Kenobi's death isn't going to change that.

Though if I'm going to resort to desperate arguments, then I can say that the force probably wouldn't have allowed Kenobi to die, and he is a jedi master, so a stroke at the age of what, 50? seems unlikely, especially considering what he's endured. And then again, he could always talk to Luke from beyond the dead.

Yeah, Legends, Jedi can extend their lives, push their bodies beyond their limitations thanks to The Force. Probably that way in Canon too.

So yeah...and 50 isn't really that old. It's old sure, but not like super old.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yeah, Legends, Jedi can extend their lives, push their bodies beyond their limitations thanks to The Force. Probably that way in Canon too.

So yeah...and 50 isn't really that old. It's old sure, but not like super old.

Mace was in his 50s when he died, and still going very strong. Another good example is Dooku, who was in his 80s.

It's also worth pointing out that even if we assume that at some point Vader kills Palpatine, that is neither the death of the Empire nor the death of the Dark Side. The Empire is still there, it's still being ruled by a dark sider (an even more committed dark sider, as Luke's conflict was the only thing drawing Vader toward the light). Eventually Vader would have just found an apprentice and the cycle would have continued.

Business would have basically continued as usual. The Empire is too vast and bureaucratic to break down from just a changing of heads.